What's the deal with Flatpak? (Linux Crash Course Series)
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- Linux software packaging has seen some interesting changes lately, especially with the rise of the "universal package". Flatpak, one of the leading forms of the prominent universal package types has seen some confusion (and sometimes controversy) but in this video, Jay will explain the concept and show you how to manage Flatpaks with the flatpak command.
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Time Codes
00:00 - Intro
01:05 - Set up your own Linux server with Akamai's Connected Cloud (Sponsor)
02:19 - A brief summary of universal packages and how they help
05:02 - How Flatpaks fit in within the Linux ecosystem
06:40 - Flathub - the most popular Flatpak repository
07:17 - You can use the CLI to install Flatpaks
08:18 - Flatpaks aren't always maintained by the vendor
09:02 - Where do Flatpaks store config files?
10:02 - Why you should make sure to install the "Flatseal" Flatpak
11:17 - "User" Flatpaks vs "System" Flatpaks
12:08 - Example flatpak commands
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#flatpak #DevOps #Linux - Наука та технологія
The deal with flatpak is that it’s been released for 10 years and is still filled with so many bugs and issues caused by the sandbox that the vast majority of apps simply break out of the sandbox by default using permissions. So then it’s just the same app, a little buggier, and using 10x the storage space compared to downloading it through the repos.
Flatseal is essential and so is Warehouse, it allows easy access to installed flatpak's user data and configures, delete said data ("reset" the app), uninstall, downgrade and even disable updates
Learning more about Flatpaks makes me love Arch/Pacman more.
Have you tried FreeBSD, ports or pkg yet.
Oh, what's that? Why yes, I do use Arch btw. Now pass me the jelly!
@@askholia I ain't jealous, I used Arch Linux before, the bootloader broke on me constantly, software breaks all the time. The worst part was the AUR because it would leave a dysfunctional mess at best, or conflict with other packages. Also the act of updating could destroy my system.
I never had those problems on FreeBSD. It's more stable than debian. I use it as a daily driver with i3wm with a kitty terminal with a fish shell.
@@MitchellJBridgesdid you use manjaro
@@MitchellJBridges *knock on wood* I haven't had any bootloader issues *crosses finger* I am using KDE with BSPWM and using Alacritty as the shell,tho inside it is ZSH cause I have a nifty script running on it I like, otherwise I would move to fish. I have heard nothing but great things about fish.
Great Job. Enjoyed the video. I'm happy flatpak has added the 'verified' tags. Hopefully flatpak will be script-able (similar to snap/apt) in the future.
Explaining why and how Flatpacks eat up hard drive storage and the pros & cons of Flatpacks vs PPAs is essential. There are two distinct Linux communities that you need to address here. One is corporate/commercial/business and the other is mom&pop/family. The major distinction is hardware and available resources in memory, storage and CPU.
I live for this channel. Thank you so much, Jay
Great video, very clear. I actually understood everything!
Brilliant video Jay!!
Thanks for taking the time to explain this. Flatpak is one of those things many of us use every day but rarely think about.
Where did you get that shirt, I need one of those :-)
10:01 KDE Plasma also has a system package that adds a Flatseal like module to Plasma system settings. It looks a bit different, but it works the same way. If it's not on your distro by default, it can be installed by installing flatpak-kcm from your distro's repositories (like on Arch).
I've learnt a lot. Thank you Jay
Hey Jay I just wanted to tell that I had a great time working through your Mastering Ubuntu Server book and despite not being a novice, I feel like I still learned a lot. Looking forward to your next book.
Same here, his books are wonderful. 👍
Worked through the book as well and loved that fact that it's full of directly usable real world examples.
Nice video, thanks for keeping showing us how great is Linux and how fun is understanding how to use it😀😀😀
Thanks Jay, clear, concise and usable, the way I like it.
I was seeing
You should do a video on wildcards, I will appreciate. Your other videos have been really helpful, and if you have already done it then I have not yet seen it.
Thank you so much . For you video. So I install flatpak and flatseal
Excellent video 👍 Thank you 💜
Now that's a very clear and simple explanation of Flatpak! Thank you Jay!
Really good info thanks!
Thank you so much for your valuable information sir.
Great videos ! 👍
Thank you for the video.
You could have mentioned that for KDE Plasma 5.27 you don't need the Flatseal application to manage permissions but there is a module for Plasma's System Settings that does the same.
In case your distribution did not install it by default it is called e.g. "kde-config-flatpak", "flatpak-kcm" or "kcm_flatpak".
Thank you, that was a great help
👍Thanks Jay.
I do really like flatpaks, especially for users who may be newer to Linux or for commerical software developers who want to port their applications to Linux.
If you're obsessed with flatpaks eating up storage space and don't like flatpaks, then you're probably not the target audience, you're probably more experienced with Linux, and you'll probably be fine with the AUR.
Flatpack is a great way to test your disk capacity. I tried to install retro arch using it and it actually pulls in the KDE desktop, the xwindow system, Nvidia drivers and god knows how many other dependencies before the relatively small retro arch package. I already have KDE on the machine - the SAME VERSION! It’s just ridiculous. Then after that it tries to run KDE inside KDE and so the performance was terrible. It runs perfectly in windows on the same machine. All of these systems like flatpack, snap and the others are trying to crowbar a “one size fits all” solution into distros and it doesn’t work.
do you think there might be a way to consolidate dependencies between various packs?
@@shaerodenaizen4375 The problem is that these packages are designed to avoid dependencies, so they pull in everything, even if it's already on the system. It's a terrible "solution" really, and I'm sure it'll die off eventually.
Great course.
As a new Linux user all I want to see is a video that explains how you install programs on your computer that are not contained in the 'Software Manager'. Just one or two straightforward, easy-to-follow methods and not half-a-dozen 'possible ways' to do so. I've been using Linux for a month now, I've watched a ton of videos and I'm still none the wiser in regards to the easiest and most effective methods.
But Linux is all about freedom and flexibility. If you want a single mandated to do things, you should probably stick to Mac 😅
@@roskoezable I've got no idea what you're referring to or talking about either. If you can't help it's maybe better that you really don't say anything at all.
@@wolfenstein6676 Programs on linux are often for specific usage so the "software manager" simply can't accommodate a lot of them. If there is a program you want in your system you can add its PPA (basically the program url address) to your system sources.
@@wolfenstein6676
Sorry if I didn't make myself clearer.
What I meant is that Linux doesn't aim to be "straightforward" and "easy-to-follow": that's what big commercial systems like Windows or MacOS are for.
Linux was created by power users that searched for flexibility.
The good thing is that it can cover any kind of use cases commercial systems miss, from a tiny service on a RaspberryPi to a science research super-computer.
The bad thing is that there is no single "easiest way" to do things, but always "half-a-dozen possible ways" because each single use case has its own needs and creates its own ways.
If you plan to use your computer as an average desktop PC, try installing Ubuntu or Mint, because their "'Software Managers" offer most of the applications you need.
But outside that, it will never be as straightforward as you ask, because that's simply not what Linux is for.
Take care!
@@roskoezable Linux Mint is created to be user friendly and straightforward to use, that's why it's so popular with ex-Windows users.
Quite happy with Flatpak on my Mint 21.2 OS! Just works, Kdenlive, GIMP, OBS and Chrome.
Flatpaks and so on breach the Unix philosophy, and that is a beautiful and economical thing and I can understand the appeal of piping data from one small application to another to produce the final result. That philosophy was developed when 20 Megabytes was a pretty big drive. I don't think you're going to edit videos with a set of small, economical, and elegant single-purpose programs.
The appeal for the end user, as opposed to system administrators, is that we might, finally, get some of those professionally indispensable apps on Linux; it's not all that likely, but it's impossible that the MegaMonopolies will make traditional packages.
Agree that vendors are not going to care more about Linux but the main benefit of Unix like systems seems to be, in my opinion, to give the user full control over their system. Flatpaks really feel like heavy black boxes when you start using them and though I like the fact they allow you to use apps way more easily it feels like the difference between unsing Putty to ssh on windows (uh...) compared to ssh on your shell. I just think Linux doesn't make sense anymore if you just have a base system where you stack a bunch of apps like a smartphone, they don't go together in the long term.
Yet, the same concept is being used in programming and in every OS. A group of packages that interact with each other. Even Object Oriented Programming is an adaptation of that concept with message passing between objects. That principle exists everywhere in our society.
In Linux, it is introduced using simple, low level examples. Yet, those elements combined with other elements can be used to build complex systems like the lowly resistor in electronics.
The principle isn’t the real issue IMO. The issue is that the application is 50 years old. Today, old means that it is outdated and trash. I question that assumption. Especially in a day where the complexity of most systems hide vulnerabilities and issues that even the engineers and designers have problems diagnosing and resolving. It seems to me that we are running blindly toward the ever more complex without due consideration to the ultimate consequences of those actions. Call me old fashioned or any other perjorative. Running full speed after the next new shiny thing is foolish IMO
@@lxn7404 I think the good thing about Flatpak is that it makes it easier for devs to keep things updated as they can just rebase to a newer runtime version instead of fussing through different versions of dependencies across distro or ship entire distros with Docker containers.
The alternative is Nix which installs whatever is necessary (and only those) and then use a wrapper to get them all to play nice. But in the end, you still have a lot of inefficiency because instead of pinning to specific runtime versions, they pin to specific dependency versions, and the end result is around the same amount of disk usage.
@@lxn7404 Well, I can understand that. But my pov is just that of an end user of a computer, who knew in about 1970 that a text editor would make one of my pieces of work hugely more efficient. And now I discover that both Windows and Mac OS are spending most of their time trying to bond me to their systems and make me dependent on them, and I find an alternative in Linux. I don't want to go beyond Linux Mint Cinnamon and LibreOffice, and when I'm trying to help a friend who's on a Zoom call with me (reading Homer) I know I'm not going to ssh into her system, but just trying to remember how Windows works, all the theory goes away. What I think I'm saying is that because Linux is FOSS, it actually makes a much better basis for ordinary end-user applications than the commercial alternatives, and that this is also a legitimate use case for Linux, and the app alternatives, like FlatPak, fit into that. As I said, I think, the new app packages may not be right for people who are deep in the entrails of the system, but they can be very good for those of us who are pretty ignorant, but who will be the people who produce the year of the Linux desktop.
I have seen for the actment
I always thought the "Universal Package Format" was .tgz or .txz like Slackware uses.
I wondered why so many people are offering "Flatpak"
That's why I came here.
It is a uni officially
only I have gone of it....,
By my through
It's off it .
By making of .
Thanks for another interesting video. And after reading the comments is seems like I'm alone in having the problems I have with flatpaks. Namely permissions, either to some "essential file or folder" or simply to save files that You create with the program !!
I don't know how many flatpaks I've had that either installed with "non functional permissions" ((i.e. permission settings that made the program essentially useless or just partially functional)) or that worked when installing only to for some unknown reason stop working as intended. And no amount of "tinkering with flatseal" has been able to correct the problems in any logic manner. I.e. sometime You can find and change a setting that corrects a problem that suddenly occurred, but it makes You wonder WHY, if it needed that setting it worked before when You had not changed it. And other times when I get "the same problem" with another program, giving it the same "permissions" that works for one program does absolutely nothing for the "non working" program...
All in all I've had MUCH more problems with flatpaks than with any other format... :/
Best regards.
P.S I'm running
3:13 I am shocked that you didn't mention NixOS!!! But you did say Gentoo?????? How is Gentoo better than NixOS? OMG! jokes... love you.
Great video, although I avoid flatpaks like I avoid snaps. But if I did flatseal would be necessary 100%
this is a good video and goes into the extra things you'll want to know when using flatpaks. One thing that worries me with both flatpaks and snaps is how do I know that there are updated flatpaks available? For apts (on ubuntu), there's an indicator in the status bar when there are updates (I think it checks daily) that also turns red when there are security updates. Is there something similar for flatpaks (or snaps)? I think snaps are updating automatically when I try to start the program which I do not want.
run a check whenever you are bored. same goes for apt and anything else. Has to check to know. You can set it in cron in 10-30 seconds
Hi, dear friend, you missed that user can uninstall flatpak apps from GNOME Software/Discover like other apps. Also software centers can update flatpak apps without command-line tools. Thanks for videos.
Some suggestions is "ip route" commands and "setfacl" or access control lists in general.
14:10 to 14:30 yes but how long a span of time does this account for in which a specific runtime hasnt been used?
I don't want it uninstalling run time for something. I do use at least once a month if it set to label something as unused after a one measly week or two.
Can I install flatpak packages with Ansible?
I never understood the benefit of wayland.
Is there also a video about that?
I would like to see you do a show on TFTP/PXE Boot server. I know it’s old school, but people still use it.
I thought i already have good knowledge about flatpaks, but you just showed me Flatseal!
Thanks for that, and thanks for the great content in general!🎉
I quitted Flatpaks because the permissions problems that made my experience with the applications very bad and with missing very critical features, and I didn't know how to use Flatseal (what permission to turn on? it is very complex), and this problem doesn't exist on snaps.
Nice shirt! 😁
I Can't figure out how to Move the Default Flatpak Install Folder from / to /home, so It stops Maxing Out my / Partition
you forgot to list the problems it creates. For example, if I install VSCode it is very likely that it will not see dotnet or LibreOffice Writer will not communicate with Zotero
Thanks Jay. I like your shirt.... I need one...... I like using VIM, it has nearly no no.. I thought I left a Banana on the counter... Oh yea... Distractions...
Speaking as a developer, I love the enthusiasm but no professional devloper hasn't heard of linux distrobutions lol.
I use ubuntu and have no problems with snaps and I live it. Also, there are certain applications that I like on flatpacks like bottles.
I know this question is probably asked a lot, but what is a good solid distro for a beginner about to start a CS degree? Wanting to learn Linux whilst doing my degree I am totally over windows.
debian stable is pretty darn great imo. It has a nice balance between ease-of-install and maintanance, and the ability to completely bork your computer. Yes it's not bleeding edge, but if you enjoy it and get on with linux you can always move on to SID or something more diy like Arch, if you find yourself wanting the most up to date packages.
@@paultapping9510 okay sweet I was thinking Debian 12 or fedora 39. What’s fedora like?
@@Jackson_rw Fedora is a great distro in its own right. However, Fedora tends to adopt new software early. This can be problematic even for experienced Linux users. Debian is also a great distro but the software isn’t the most current in Debian stable. There are trade offs with any Distro. Pop OS might be a good choice as well. Linux Mint is also favored by new Linux users. It really boils down to personal choice and preference.
Having said that, welcome to the Linux community!!
@@Jackson_rw Fedora is more bleeding edge and generally more vanilla as it prefers to follow upstream defaults (unless it's trying to push for new technology like Wayland, Pipewire, and others).
It's very much vanilla, and from what I can tell they package more stuff in their repo (sometimes too much - as the Bottles devs complained). Personally, I think that having both Fedora and Ubuntu LTS is good balance between bleeding-edge and the more slow-moving standard of the corporate world.
I'd personally recommend you to just grab Universal Blue's image for a good opinionated host system, and explore Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora through Distrobox instead.
@@Jackson_rwActually debian and fedora are not so different, both goal is stable. The differences is that fedora based on Red Hat, and get more often update than Debian.
Personally i prefer Debian, it just stable af. And i always install linux with Gnome desktop environment. The reason is Gnome just makes you more productive.
But if you can't get away from windows ui, u can try other desktop environment such as plasma. Not recommendding Cinnamon, Unless you use linux mint.
I tried using flatpack, but it downloads GBs of data to install a package that can be done with 100-200MB using apt install.
Using flatpak if you only need one thing, doesn't really make sense IMHO. But it is a lot more efficient if you have a lot of stuff running the same runtimes or otherwise don't want to deal with dependency/version issues.
Docker and Nix uses about the same amount of storage space, and they're meant to solve the issue of dealing with package versions and shipping directly to users instead of distro maintainers.
There's a reason why Bottles devs are very adamant about flatpak-only (and only tolerating Nix) despite how much people want to use it via AUR. Flatpak just solves a tone of issues, at the cost of space.
@@FengLengshun Thanks for the detailed reply.
I only used flatpack once and just to install some apps on my Ubuntu machine, and they were huge in size, more than 10 times than what they normally are when downloaded using apt.
@@natural_stupidity_Flatpak also have an internal deduplication method separate from the usage of specific runtimes. It's big upfront, but the more you use it, the more efficient it gets.
One thing about flatpaks that I have found a bit annoying is the number of updates they seem to get. Security updates are ok, but I'd rather get minor tweak updates on a monthly schedule.
A little point about the naming when you install the Discord flatapp, that is pretty bad, One part is capitalized, the other is not, without any reason. You want to capitalize because it is a name, fine. But then be consistent. The com in front whlle people always see it on the back. Also that com does not add anything and either they should leave away discord or discordapp. It is as if the developer prefers us not using the command line interface. I myself used one appimage (for a RTS-game) and 0 Flatpak and 0 Snap before, between Snap and Flatpak I would use Flatpak, I see no reason to give Snap a chance considering how much Canonical is pushing it. Also, if Snap would be better than Flatpak then Canonical would not see any need to push it so hard.
The naming convention is called reverse domain name notation. It is a very common format, search it up. There are very good reasons to use it, and one that is very clear is that it makes clear what the app name is and who it is from.
Thought I'd take a look at that Akamai service you plugged so tried the ssh address given and... nothing. Impressive, but I'll pass.
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Still don't understand the purpose. If the software is accepted by a distro, then it is integrated there. There are three major package management systems, dpkg/apt, rpm/yum, and pacman. Their repos are secured and heavily tested. If you run with those distro agnostic installers, such as homebrew, flatpak and snap you 1. take risks, you only do it if other alternatives are not available, and 2. the installation takes more disk space and are putting lots of files in your system, and they don't resolve dependencies very good. You run homebrew on Mac, because that's the only alternative, and otherwise you avoid them.
I strongly prefer user mode, it's so much easier to manage since everything is in xdg-data-home. Flatpak is especially great for GUI apps. You can still use it for command lines, of course, but GUI apps like Bottles and Steam ("Yes, do as I say," anyone?) is where it shines. I personally use it with home-manager declarative-flatpak module so I can sync it between devices (and the rest of hm itself manages my user and CLI environments).
I don't "get it". Flatpak, and universal packages in general, feel like a very microsoft windows style solution for installing programs. One of the reasons I choose to use Linux is because I don't like the way applications are packaged for and installed on windows!
What about --delete-data?
I follow a specific algorithm when installing software. Firstly, I prioritize native packages. Regarding versions, I always opt for the latest, whether it's a Flatpak or a rpm/deb package. Within Flatpak choices, I particularly favor those from the Fedora registry over flathub. Overall, I highly value the Flatpak technology.
Since replying on UA-cam is utterly pointless considering that the user does not get notified I will address a brought-up point in the comments here. Yes, Flatpaks and Snaps take up much more storage, often 3 times or more. I don't like it either but let's put it in perspective, you probably have less than 20 GB of system-packages if you exclude backups. So we are talking of 40-80 GB of wasted storage. For me that is too much but if you have a 1 TB or 2 TB SSD (now for around $90-100) then that is not a huge problem. However, I myself avoid both formats, whenever I can install a package from the repository then I do. If that is not an option then I either use an AUR-script or I compile from source.
The usual argument is that since cheap memory is so plentiful, why not use flatpaks and snaps? Yet, you choose to avoid them whenever possible. While I agree. I’m curious. Would you share your reasons for avoiding them?
Try FreeBSD ports, you won't be disappointed.
@@MitchellJBridges The FreeBSD ports system is excellent. What concerns me are the number of ports without a maintainer.
@@donaldmickunas8552 can't we just download a newer source code and build that?
flatpaks and app images are good and have plenty of use cases, snaps don't though
plenty of stuff needs old ass packages and libraries that break all the time on AUR and even pacman because 1 thing is out of date and something else needs that out of date thing etc
My Linux School.
I drank a thimble of gin every time I heard "flatpak" 🥴
To many commands to remember...I'll stick to "apt".
I have a grand total of one flatpak and one appimage on my system.. for things that tend to break everything otherwise at every update.. a youtube downloader and a controller for 3d printing.. (and the damn appimage for that needs fixing every single time because.. dunno.. moronic devs and maintainers comes to mind when the thing calls wrongly named libs from WITHIN it's own directory.. obviously they don't actually test the thing
I try to avoid the flatpaks as much as possible.
Kindly upload the video how to change booting logo in ubuntu
I absolutely hate them. They corrupted several of my files, and are just an android/iphone appstore scam.
Flatpak apps somehow need 100x more storage than system package ones
yeah just use when u needed otherwise deb pkg or any other
I downloaded a 1.4mb Flatpak, I guess I'm lucky
@@dermond lol
Uh…it’s not mysterious or anything as to why they need more space…
The reason why it's big is because you're essentially downloading another system as well. Different apps are built against different runtimes and some apps still ship with their own preferred version of dependencies. That is just the price to be paid to avoid dependency issues and get Flatpak *bug-for-bug* working on all distro.
It will always lose in a competition against apt/pacman/dnf but the more fair comparison would be against docker containers.
Too many interuptions
Problem with Linux is you why do I even need to talk to Sudo? Why even a crash course? Can it be like every other OS and I just choose a radio button, a menu item, a checkbox. Done! If that was the case then Linux would be even more popular, but you don't become a Linux nerd because you want to be popular or easy you all want out of this is to turn your noses I know something useless that you don't.
i am the total opposite, the constantly changing buttons and nested menus (which always constantly froze on the XP computers I grew up with) confuse the hell out of me. `sudo apt install [package name]` any day of the year for me, thanks
no thanks, not interested in seeing or hearing your sponsor adds, do better
Hello Jay! I'm using Ubuntu 22.04, and for a while now, when I boot my laptop, it shows up with some errors. These are the errors:
[ 0.914802] integrity: Problem loading X.509 certificate -6
[ 1.274660] amd_gpio AMDI0030:00: Invalid config param 0014
/dev/nvme0n1p2: clean, 334076/30498816 files, 15376893/121965056 blocks
[ 2.998410] amd_gpio AMDI0030:00: invalid config param 0014
I don't know what those mean or how to solve them, but I hope someone can help me with that. Excuse my English; I am not native or advanced.😊 Thank you in advance!
thank you
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