What is Flavor and Why Does it Even Matter?
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- Опубліковано 23 гру 2023
- What is flavor? It's a word that I'm sure you've heard before in passing, but it's one of those aspects of Magic: the Gathering that is vital to its success. And whether you are directly aware of its presence or not its what has silently endured this game to millions, including you. That is why in this video I want to discuss what exactly flavor is in regards to MTG, its history in this game and why its so important to the Magic the Gathering
This video will discuss the definition of flavor in Magic the gathering, its history in the game and then finally why its so important to MTG.
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One of my brothers loves the flavour text on Raging Goblin (a 1/1 Goblin Berserker with Haste) “He raged at the world, at his family, at his life, but mostly he just raged.” n somehow it has stuck with me yrs later
flavour is one of the reasons slivers is my favourite deck. they could easily just make a bunch of creatures and say they are a hivemind, but making it so that they all buff each other by giving each other their abilities really help to build that feel of you playing a hivemind.
Flavor is like hobbies:if you see them from a logical perspective, they are useless but they are what gives joy and meaning to our lives ❤
I like that
@@DiceTry Happy to hear that 🙂. Your opinion means a lot to me because from the way you talk and analyse things you seem a person with deep thoughts, seeing things that the most people don't..
I guess the blue mana flows in your veins
When it comes to flavor my favorite card is Generous Gift. It's so simple but that's why I love it; it can work in any story.
“Perhaps we want to feel like a necromancer wearing our opponent down with endless hordes summoned from the grave.” I literally started cheering because that’s what gets me excited when I play with my zombie decks! Great video! :-)
I'd like to add, in the end Magic: The Gathering is mechanically a game of resource management. If it instead was called "Wealth And Nations" with you as an international portfolio manager with different country's currencies replacing mana & lands, & different companies replacing creatures, & "regulations" replacing "Artifacts & Enchantments," it would have a VERY different FLAVOR. Frankly I don't imagine that such a game would be AS popular because part of Magic: The Gathering's appeal IS the FANTASTIC worlds it can bring via names, flavor text & art. Would you rather be wizard like Gandalf in The Lord Of The Rings or a stock broker like Jordan Belfort in the Wolf Of Wallstreet? Wizards would have run out of distinct looking art a LONG while ago with a finance theme than a Fantastical Magic theme too.
And if you want to play a stock broker, I would assume some azorius senate and the brokers cards would help the feel
@@pokegardI think Orzhov would be better for that. That is the guild about money and banking. Azorius is more of a politics guild. They are distinct. In real life some politicians are into using taxes and regulation to keep businesses in line. Businesses don't like that. That is the case where there is real conflict.
@@c.d.dailey8013 fair/true
Oh wow. That reminds me of Catan. It is a game about settling on land. There are managing resources. There are important materials such as wood, brick and grain. I am a fan of Catan because the gameplay is really fun. However the flavor of settlers is pretty bland. I think this would be so much cooler if this was fantasy themed. There can be magicians managing different flavors of mana and building networks of magical leylines. I played with the idea and developed a game out of it. Come to think of it, there is a Catan spinoff games based on outer space and another based on Game of Thrones. May this was an attempt to fix the bland flavor.
@@c.d.dailey8013 fair, it is way easier to trade resources in catan compared to mtg by default tho(mostly cuz mtg is more of a war game then catan), and the space one I think is flavor but the game of thrones one I think is just a brand deal
Well said! As a vorthos player, I cannot agree enough that flavor is everything in this game!
It's honestly impressive how good the designers of this game are at intertwining flavor and mechanics
@@DiceTry you could have a game with similar mechanics, but if it was something more mundane it wouldn't nearly be as popular, or have the same potential to keep going. That's probably why it's gone on longer than any game tied to specific properties, M:tG has the freedom to keep making NEW worlds rather than being tied to something with established lore like Dragon Ball.
I love the flavor of the cards _Bruenor Battlehammer_ . When you read his card, you feel like he's right there helping you get your armor on or equipment ready, but as a king he's spread thin enough that he can't help everyone get equipped. And his flavor text feels like somdthing straight out of *The Legend of Drizzt* novels that he's from. And I love that the Boros combo is showing its more compassionate side through Bruenor, a king who governs as best he can for his family and his people, but someone you do not want to piss off by threatening or harming those he loves.
Flavor is what got me into the game. I was being taught to play with a deck my friend made, and in the deck was Perilous Myr whose flavor text reads “the Mirrodin, an explosive. To phyrexia, a missionary.” The word play and world building from that text alone got me interested in the world of the game.
You actually chose one of my favourite examples of this, Rescue From The Underworld. The name, that picture and then the ability they gave it is borderline perfection.
I have always had a soft spot for all the different types of counterspells too. They usually have a great name and picture, and their flavour texts are some of the funniest/most rage inducing quotes that perfectly suit the spell they are on! 🍻
"your attack has been rendered harmless. it is, however, quite pretty"
@@samwayne8961 oi, Masques has one of the best! 😂
"enthusiasm is no match for preparation"
@@brendans1983 My fav has to be, "No."
“It that betrays” never had the card but the idea of a monster that sacrifices allies and close friends and turns them against you as husks brings a great deal of emersion
12:20
Spike only sees the card on the left, but as all cards, and for that they have my deepest sympathy.
they're probably still having fun though. folks that go past the flavor and into mechanics do exist and some players will inevitably dip into that side over time too, johnnys are likely to do that too.
I don't play it, but for the feel and Flavor Text alone, i love Fleshmad Steed
My favorite flavor card is Startled Awake//Persistent Nightmare. Everything on that card works so well in tandem, I love it
Setessan Champion Flavor text is like a lifestyle for me. Thank you for this amazingly deep content.
Alot of people underestimate how much flavor adds. One of the main things that turned me off from the planeswalker party deck, besides the price tag, is that the Guff card makes no sense for the character, no flavor, which is a shame cause he is a really cool character. And one the things that interest me the most on that deck is "Guffs Rewrites History", cause that card actually feels pretty flavourful, at least for me.
For me a game of magic, besides a games is also a story being told by the players.
People do underestimate how much flavor shapes our enjoyment of this game
I had a game of commander with one player playing Queen Marchesa. Another player completely loved to feed into the Monarch-making nature of his deck, so he "bowed to the crown" and became a puppet Monarch, while me and the other guy quickly noticed what was going on, that we could barely attack - and as such stopped taking Marchesa's gifts and offers and teamed up to fight against instead of for the crown!
Suddenly our FFA Commander game became a 2v2 where we told a story of trying to convince the Puppet King that his ways are wrong and that we should work together to defeat the crown, for she is the one pulling the threads. We weren't exactly role playing and 3 of us outside of the Queen marchesa player are fairly new to magic, but my mate got to defeat Marchesa, then self-destructed for his purpose in life was fulfilled: His people were finally free (to attack without annoying combat tricks haha). It all came down to me fighting the vassal, the puppet king in a final, actually very close fight with my Chishiro.
This was probably the most memorable card game round I've ever played. It was an actual story being told through our gameplay and I love that.
No singular card, but Planeswalker cards and Goblins - especially those tiny
They make a great goblin cheeseburger after playing a meathook massacre. My favorite fast food shop in the multiverse!!
Another gobos and planeswalker enjoyer 🤝
Currently a blue player, my favorite creature card is the minstrel singer. Such a powerful story in such a small card.
I think my favourite flavour card is The First Sliver, because sliver cascade works really well with the name, and because in commander you can wait to play creatures in order to make it a statement of truth within the game
I remember my first games of Magic The Gathering. My mom got me a precon deck. It was judgement mono green wurms. When I found out some of my classmates played the game, we would spend breaks playing games. A friend had a better grasp of playing it and built a few awesome thematic tribal decks. I still remember having my wurms trampled by juiced up hordes of squirrels that just kept multiplying. X_X I loved it.
It wasn't happening in motion. It was just a bunch of cards but in our heads you see a massive wurm fighting off an army of squirrels. It was glorious and it's still a very strong memory I keep fondly. That was what flavor did for me. I liked having thematic decks that may not have the most winning strategy but watching the game unfold and the flavors fall into place was its own reward for me.
Hey, I just wanted to say that i love your videos. I been getting into making custom commanders and making cycles of cards, and these videos have helped me so much. If you want I can share some of them.
I do have a discord, that would be a great place to share your custom cards
Flavor-wise, one of my favorite cards is actually probably a Universes Beyond card, Tom Bombadil. I loved the character in the books, and feel like the card does an excellent job portraying exactly what he is: an all-powerful being who lives life enjoying the simple pleasures, with a penchant for storytelling. As far as magic flavor, it’s hard to pick a favorite, but Kroxa and Kunoros is certainly up there. I particularly love the idea of the guardian of the underworld, in a moment of desperation, letting one of the titans who constantly strive to break free finally do so, after which other souls follow in Kroxa’s footsteps
My favorite card, from the first deck that I ever owned was the OG Serra's Angel.
As a vorthos and jank player I agree with everything said.
Flavor can make cards so much more fun. Sure, Shark Typhoon might not be the BEST card for a Mizzix deck, but the concept of a crazed Goblin Izzet Spellcaster creating a gigantic Typhoon that spits out flying sharks is so hilarious and fitting to me that I had to include it. Flavor wins are great.
Slightly surprised Universes Beyond wasn't mentioned in the history section, considering that, I feel, it's a really strong case for the power flavor can have. At the same time I fully understand focusing on the Multiverse, seeing as beyond what i mentioned, UB also hinged a lot on brand recognition. Great video! I listening to a lot of Mark Rosewater's output on the game, and follow other MTG channels, but I'd yet to see talk about flavor as a simulation.
Honestly universes beyond could be a video all it's own
One of my favourite card flavour wise is Stormtide Leviathan. All of it's abilities basically is designed around how huge it is. The tide it causes is so huge that it flooded all the lands, therefore all lands becomes Islands. Since all lands are flooded and there's a huge tide, creatures that aren't master swimmers or can't fly over the tide can't move freely to attack. It has island walk since it's so huge nothing can stop it underwater.
Since we had Alara, I was wondering what a mini planes would be like if they were three colored by wedge. Like what does a R/W/B world look like? How does U/R/W world even survive without green? It’s been on my mind.
Like a fully wedge plane? That would be interesting. We have seen wedge factions but not a Plane. Ok marking that down for a video in 2024
That would be cool. Tarkir and Ikoria would be the closest. This can definitely be taken further.
i love Firkraag, cunning Instigator for his flavor
cuz from Baldurs gate we know that he lure ppl into his hunting grounds then makes them kill eachother and then feeds on them
if he deals combat damage to a player you goad a target creature that player controls
if a goaded creature deals combat damage to a player he gets a +1/+1 counter and you draw a card aka feeding off of the ppl he made go at eachother
Wandering Satyr. one of the most beautyful art and with a fun flavour text.
What a great video to explain archetypes!!
Is it ironic that a favourite flavour thimg for myself is regarding food token? Especially regarding the Hobits, Wilds of Eldrain and Rocco. I just love the flavour of using something as harmless looking as a food as a resource and then doing surprising things.
In general I just love the flavour of things that look like normal everyday things, before they can hit back against mythicaly stronger things. Regal Bunnicorn was instant flavour and mechanical win for my food deck, the idea of a little rabbit being super strong to defend my stores of food.
Master Biomancer is one of my favorite flavour cards. He looks like a biomancer, with wierd creatures in pods around him, his ability makes creatures grow through mutation, as he gives them the Mutant type along with 2 counters. Lastly his flavor text clearly states what hes about: "Nature is a wonderful engineer but it works far too slowly for my tatses."
Makes the card taste really good 🤤🤤
I love cards like Deflecting Swat, the art, the effect, the only place I feel it fails in is its color identity.
I think that ends up being the difficulty with creating a 5 color cycle. Some are going to fit together naturally, but some might be harder to make fit. Black already had removal, which is most of red’s instants. So it went the route of a soft counterspell that you see more often than you notice in Red.
Flavor is the most important thing for me when it comes to making new Commander decks.
My Eldrazi deck is my pride and joy.
I was very happy with the flavor of the cards from streets of new capenna when they came out ... Cards like an offer you cant refuse, cut a deal, sleep with the fishes, cement shoes etc
Cordial Vampire is a favorite flavourful card of mine. :)
Another great video!!!
"There is always a Greater Power". Cruel Ultimatum
while it's true that people can get into a more mechanically focused game if the mechanics are strong, flavor can be the thing that draws a player into a game.
like, using an anecdote of my own, the one piece TCG is real popular in my area and it is legitimately fun, but it took a while for me to actually get into the game because I honestly never watched one piece, and the cards didn't have much flavor on it's own to get into.
on the other hand, I found myself more invested in lorcana through the way it approaches card mechanics and flavor, not only that but it seemed like a card game I could get family into, thanks to it's vibrant and more upbeat vibe compared to other card games. it's not like magic or yu-gi-oh where you're mostly throwing hostile spells and vicious, aggressive, and at times overly edgy monsters and creatures at each other.
not only that but few players start on a card game with wanting to make a specific kind of mechanical deck, like and aggro or control deck. they're gonna start with what vibes with them the most.
Excellent video
Wow. Flavor is amazing. I think of flavor as something that is based on aesthics and world building. It is something that is distinguished from mechanics. MTG is a much more engaging game because it its flavor. The video gave a couple of examples of more plain cards that functioned the same. It is used for conteast. The best example or plain cards I can think of it regular playing cards. They are really plain and abstract with thier numbers and symbols. Regular playing cards come from tarot cards. During the change they lost thier flavor and became a lot more bland. Tarot has a ton of flavor, especially when there are different decks with different images. That is a whole rabbit hole of magic and mystecism. The video described flavor as a similulation. I think that is a good way to explain things. It even gets into the story aspect. Good point. Having rich story can really flesh out the set.
Other games have flavor too. I got excited about the Breath of Wild and Workd of Warcraft footage. I love those games. A big example that come to my mind is Dungeons and Dragons. The game books are full of gorgeous fantasy imagery. It even has an identicle art style. There can even be crossover products that don't change the art style at all. They may even reuse art assets. There was an MTG set about DND. There are also DND books about MTG planes. It is entirly possible to play DND without such lavish imagery. Players just need pencils, paper, funky dice and a rules manual. The manual can just have black words on white paper with no pictures or color. This would still have charts though. It is even possible to play DND without grids and miniatures. I learned that shortly after getting into the game, and I was shocked. This is called "theater of the mind". So it is entirely possible to play DND with no flavor at all. However that would suck. It would be nothing but formulas, caluculations and rolling dice. It sounds like something a cruel math teacher would use to torture students. DND players are stereotyped as nerds. However they are not that nerdy. Doing math problems for fun is extreme. DND is first and foremost a game of fantasy makebelive. The mechanics and rules are there yo facilitate that. So I would argue that flavor is important even essential to DND. It is perhaps its biggest draw. The pretty pictures in DND books make it easier on the imagination. It is just like the pretty pictures on MTG cards. MTG works the same way. It is possible to play the game with flavorless cards. However that would also suck. MTG is actually inspired by DND. That is why they are so similar in the flavor department.
I am developing my own card game. I am just making cards for playtesting. I take regular index cards and write mechanics on it. This has got to be barebones because I am still figuring out how the mechanics works. Yet even then I have the decency to draw a doodle on each card to suggest imagery and flavor. Card names are also written for flavor. I do put small colored circles to classify cards and add more flavore. Some cards even have the doodles colored. That is some flavor, even if it isn't a lot. Doodles are not nearly good enough for a finished product, but they help with my mindset.
This is more than about extreme nerds doing math problems for fun. It is where one reads a fantasy book like Lord of the Rings, and wanting in on the action. One not only immerses into a fantasy world, but they can also interact. DND, MTG, World of Warcraft and Legend of Zelda all deliver that experience incredibly well. They are vastly different in terms of mechanics. However all of them have a great fantasy to experience. I am a hardcore fantasy nerd, and I love all these games.
DND and MTG are the two big classics of fantasy games. They are a huge source of enjoyment and inspiration. If I had to pick one, I would say that DND is a tad more important because it is older, but both games are still incredible. Besides art style, another thing that both have in common is extreme world building. This is something I really dive into. This goes beyond just having one fantasy world. MTG has multiple planes that card sets are based on. So it can really churn out card sets without running out of ideas. DND has multiple settings that campaigns are based on. It even has a complex and intricate cosmology. So it can really churn out books. There is a campaign module about traveling around the cosmos, called Planescape. There was a boxed book set about it released a while back. I got so excited when I first saw it in my local game store. I bought it immediately. The amount of sheer creativity is absolutely bonkers. It even starts to go beyond regular fantasy. Then this gets into mythology, fairy tales, horror and even sci-fi. This is a major case of kitchen sink creativity.
The video asked me what my favorite card for flavor is. I can't say because there are way too many to choose from. I can give groupings. One of my favorite planes is Ravnica. It was the first plane I experienced. The first sets I played was in the most recent Ravnica block. It had War of the Spark. The first DND book I had was a crossover book called Guild Masters Guide to Ravnica. I didn't play DND yet or even understood the rules. I just got the book for the pretty pictures. I think a lot of those pictures are reused art assets. I even drew pictures like the pictures in the book. Ravnica is a great basis for learning about color pairs. That really makes the games so interesting and vibrant. Maybe ten color pairs is a happy medium between being too bland and too confusing. I also like Ravnica is a plane focused on political intrigue. It is a lot like Game of Thrones. However the vibrant magic and robust color pie makes it even better. I am a huge fan of Game of Thrones, so this intrigue is great for me. My other favorite planes are Theros and Kaldheim. They are very similar. I like these planes, because I am such a huge mythology fan. Another one of the first DND books I got was one about Theros. Amokhet and Kamigawa are similar planes too, and I think they are very cool. My favorite color is blue. That is because I am a nerd and I relate to blue philosophy the most. The pair I relate to the most is Izzet due to creativity. The first deck I played with was an Izzet deck, mainly based on the recent Ravnica block. That is something super specific. I did this mainly for flavor. At the time I had no idea how good this was in terms of meta. The Izzet League of Ravnica is something I have grown very attached to. I am even fond of the leaders Ral Zerik and Niv Mizzet. I had cards for both of them in my deck. There are several versions of Ral Zerik in the block. The one I used was the one in the War of Spark set. For flavor I also like white. I am drawn to some of white's values. I like the community, religion and politics of white. Overall my personality is Jeskai. That is a combo of Izzet and White. I do like how the style of all the white guilds of Ravnica. They lend themselves to pretty imagery. I also like how all the blue guilds have cool philosophies and mechanics. When those go together, there is the Azorius guild. This guild is awesome. It is the one that has a flavor of government, order, pretty armor and pretty birds. It has the mechanics or being the best at control and defense. This video has a tiny example. There is a card where Azorius knights arrest a giant. I look at the picture and read the card text. The mechanics and flavor fit perfectly. Arresting or exiling and enemy creature is totally what Azorius would do. I know how they are.
I have a tendency to get into flavor first. Then I learn mechanics. For MTG and DND I watched lore videos on UA-cam first. Then later I get into playing the games. My three favorite MTG channels are DiceTry, Aether Hub and Lorbrarians. The one thing that they all have in common is that they focus on the flavor of the game and not the lore. When I got into MTG, the biggest draw was actually the color pie and the guilds of Ravnica. There was no DiceTry channel yet. So I watched a color pie series on another channel, called The Mana Source. That series was a big mind blower. I'll tell you that. Interestingly the first video on a color pair was about Izzet. Once I watched that video, I was immediately hooked on that pair.
To me flavor is when mechanics match the story or thing they’re trying to represent
Nissa and Chandra... that's a tasty flavor ;)
I'm just starting to watch this video but the idea of flavor kind of reminds me of the idea of fluff in Warhammer 40K if I understand the two correctly.
Close, think of it like how there are minis that are perfect in getting across their faction’s ideals. Orks slap together anything and everything and call it a weapon “dat Mork would shid ‘is pants for.” It’s character is what I’m saying
I have loved and been competitive in street fighter...I loved the sf secret lair flavor. One of my mains has been guile at times.
So he is a charge character (holding down+back to execute special moves). He needs to gain charge counters to do his 2 special moves. I think most get sonic boom doing 4 damage to any target. But removing counters to do Flash Kick gives lifelink/indestructible. In every iteration of street fighter, guiles flash kick has "invincible frames" on start up typically. This can be used in really tight strategic ways to benefit from the fact you get invincible frames entirely and no intention to "land" the move.
I don't know if it's coincidence or the designers really thought that deep about guiles flavor. But it's perfect.
Honda with 100 is a fun flavor. Blanka is my other main and his is pretty cool mechanically but honestly the flavor is a stretch. Rolling attack has nothing to do with trampling as SF has no multiple targets. I guess triggering 3 spells a turn is suppose to be blanka having to rapid tap to use electricity? But that's not even for his electric flavor attack. I guess the second is kind of assuming if you touch him with electric up, it hurts. But it's still pretty loose feeling. I just don't even understand zangief making opponent sac something for over damage? That ability should do damage. Like the strongest special in the sf game. His spinning pile driver.
So sadly alot of the sf flavor was kinda off...atleast dhalsim had reach. Guiles was incredibly godlike flavor, right down to being Jeskai lmao. The only mtg character who has proved a sliver of jeskai is merica 😅. But I guess it would get repetitive. Half the cast has a projectile and invincible frame special DP. So maybe guile is the most fundamental so they let him take it.
I am one of your few contrarians...
Untuned magic cards look beautiful to me.
My favorite flavor in a card is "Baked Into a Pie."
Great video
Thanks, it's a topic I just find so interesting so it was fun talking about it
My favorate flavor card has to be Greasefang, Okiba Boss, with the alternate art. I want my anime rat-ninja biker gang.
Yeeessssss🎉🎉🎉
Haha, hope you enjoy this one
I find it interesting how MTG has enough space on their cards to include an effect and flavour text. Meanwhile Yugioh has made it so you can only have one or the other but never both..
18:30 Function without art seems awfully Phyrexian to me.
The old flavor text where the best.
Felton of the Third Path. One of the saddest, richest flavor cards I’ve ever found.
Also, MSG is good on some sets, but be careful you cant put less in.
Fallen Empires will go down in history as one of the worst sets ever released (beaten to the bottom only by Homelands), but that set had so much flavor. All the colors were competing with each other, every color had an internal conflict, and if I remember correctly, every card in that set had four different artworks. The opportunities for storytelling and imagination were so rich. I'm sure I'm in the minority but there's nothing that would make me happier than for MTG to revisit Sarpadia and breathe new life into the world of Fallen Empires.
Hot soup, by far
Tasty
The tastiest
I stopped playing as of Shadowmoor. Not through any fault of the set, but by that point, I had stopped seeing any kind of theme. I was only seeing numbers and effects. I was too familiar with the game and its interactions.
And now we have universes beyond :/
Ask Craig Mack.
I come from an era where you only got flavor in the flavor text and the cards of the characters in the story were atrocious. I'd say flavor is probably the least important part of the game, to me anyway. Not that I don't appreciate it but I don't think I would miss it too much.
when it comes to color and rules(especially color) flavour, I really hate Sauron from mtg. it should be a pure white card in my opinion(I can settle for w/b, w/u, or w/b/u tho), and it should make all your creatures white in addition to their other colors, and give all white creature you control vigilance IMO
edit: it could have vigilance and indestructible/hexproof separately I suppose as well
Idk I like the game better without knowing what the cards refer to. The new lore is outright bad and the characters are straight out of a weird Disney movie for modern audiences about 85% of the time.
I recommend having a flick through the art books they released during the Bolas-Arc. I know you literally just said you don't care for the lore, but it's actually really cool finding out small snippets of lore on cards you see played all the time, or just hear about all the time.
Just things like Anguished Unmaking is Sorin 'killing' Avacyn, whom he created as a vampire killer to keep humans alive on Innistrad. Sounds weird but he basically didn't want to suck on rats for a feed once all the humans were gone. But he had to kill Avacyn because of what Griselbrand did, followed by what Emrakul did.
The Immortal Sun was created on Ixalan to essentially stop planeswalking. It was then stolen by Tezzeret(who had the Planar Bridge installed into his guts so he could planeswalk it to Ravnica) for Nicol Bolas so he could trap and kill every planeswalker in existence, resulting in The War of the Spark.
On Amonkhet, Oketra just sits back on her throne bombing these massive arrows into the wasteland of Amonket, depicted on the Invocation Wrath of God. Actually, the whole story is Amonket proper dark and twisted. Waaay darker than Innistrad.
Emrakul still exists, but Kozilek and Ulamog do not. And apparently they were not the only 3 eldrazi titans in existence, just the 3 we know about so far.
And, technically, Nicol Bolas still 'exists'.
Sorry for the rant. I love lore 😂
Sorry but skipping this one, tired of seeing south park clips and references considering the harm the show does to people like me and the video opens with one.