It takes about 5-7 years to make an mmo. The pandemic slowed it down and they also switched to unreal engine so it show move faster they said. It could be worse. You could be waiting for Star Citizen to finish. You were 23 then lol.
Thanks for mentioning my video in the description Force. Fair and great summary on everything AOC. Look forward to seeing your thoughts after getting your hands on it too
Agreed. It's unfair that other AOC creators can take a crap in their hands and put it online and get featured. And you put craftsmanship in and are ignored.
GDaaS = Game Development as a Service : They cut a check while you pay them to develop a game, if the game fails, they already got paid. That is how you get a 12+ years game development.
Man if Thor(Pirate Software) got an interview with Steven we could get some extremely valuable information. He can ask real questions the community NEEDS. I watched NYCE's video and some others but they're just such elementary player questions(I don't mean this as an insult, maybe there is a better way of phrasing it). Not to crap on them because they have value but many, many, many of these types of questions have been absolutely beat to death. The answers to those questions are ambiguous and intent driven, opposed to deep developmental and technical which their is a hunger for albeit I don't think many gamers realize that that's what they're hungry for. TLDR; Thor(Pirate Software) would be far more qualified to interview Steven. I think his questions would give the community something they really want but don't quite get from the current popular names/interviewers. I'm not the best writer so I hope I articulated my thoughts well enough. I don't want to add fruitless negativity to the space. I have been a long time follower of NYCE too I hope I didn't offend you brother. I like many of you want to see this project succeed. I understand they are pioneering in their own way and this puts us and them in unfamiliar territory that doesn't match previous boxes we have to put it in. Overall I'm very optimistic even given the timeline. I think the change of game engine was a big hurtle and will remain a hurtle for the foreseeable future but completely necessary.
I normally play solo but while I was playing over the weekend, I received invites many times which was surprising to me to fight mobs. it was fun. Don't forget this is alpha and the dev is getting feedback and bug reports constantly from players that are playing now. Looking forward to playing every weekend.
Appreciate the shout out Force! I am a channel that has devoted my entire channel predominantly to Ashes of Creation, but I will always look at the game in an objective manner. I love the concept of the game, and I want it to succeed. Part of that is providing criticism when it's warranted.
Man, don’t even get me started on that Been warning people this game will fail without some major changes and pretty much got told “fuck off, you filthy casual. Go back to retail WoW lol”
Great video, if i can add some comfort: Its true that the servers have beens scuffed forever. However yesterday, Intrepid pushed a patch that smoothed the server out so much. This is the smoothest its ever beeen and after 8 hours of playing yestedsy, i only DC'd once. Hoping it stays strong for this weekend.
7 days to die came to STEAM in 2013 with Alpha 5 (I think) and went to Alpha 21 until this year, releasing 1.0 in July 2024...still not complete :) Let's see if AoC will break that record :)
Oh dude, between Wildstar, Crowfall and Corepunk your opinion is totally justified. I was in that Crowfall alpha with you, we all saw the problems from such a far distance away. It was so, so avoidable - damned arrogance on the part of those devs. Sad to see Corepunk make the exact same mistakes 5 years on. I think we're a similar age and have been through all of this together. Fucking RIP dude. Remember Paragon? Christ. Why do these games even have playtests if they don't listen to feedback?
@Valithin Same, the first MMO with a REAL Action Target System even for Auto Attacks. I think the unconsistancy and the wrong marketing broke their neck a little. Also i think scifi isnt everybodys cup of tea. BUT theres a little hope, some people try to reingeniere the Game but it takes Time
@@sergeantyoshi656 there are two groups i know of working on getting WS back up and running, unfortunately that's still a ways off from completion. The issue with Wildstar is it had a bad launch. It was too "hardcore" for casual players, the paid sub in a time when mmo's were dying off a bit, server issues on launch, and unfortunately scifi just isn't as popular. I still think it has the most engaging gameplay, I'm playing WoW again, and it is just shutting off my brain to do content.
@@matthewmammothswine4395 I really wanna like Albion and i do like a lot of aspects, but full loot pvp is just unnecessarily annoying. AoC's approach makes much more sense, you can actually go for gear progression long-term and it's not just a temporary piece of power that exists until your next death
@@Dangerous1939 it’s not annoying at all once you understand that your gear is just a consumable, and that your specs in armor/weapons are what your real gear is. You cannot lose silver (your main resource) and you cannot lose spec (essentially your gear progression). People just have a hard time grasping this because it’s not like most other MMOs.
Development progress has been depressingly slow but if it's not ready, it's not ready. Maybe there isn't enough staff. Maybe they have a healthy work-life balance and aren't under pressure to work insane hours. Maybe they just aren't very good at this yet. If it's not ready, it's not ready.
[I have to clarify this it not about Force: great video, very clear and accurate!] There is too much publicity or talk about this alpha TEST. It makes me see or feel like they should have kept the NDA. As a test, there will be plenty of limits (only some content), performance issues, etc. giving fools a bad impression (no matter how many times you repeat the words ALPHA / TEST). Hopefully I am wrong. And, anyway, if the actual released game in a few years is really good, gamers will figure it out...
It seems people may have very unrealistic expectations for a game that just entered the Alpha 2 phase of development. At this stage, content and questing aren’t the primary focus; the goal is to test the core mechanics, server stability and scalability, gather player feedback, and build a stable foundation. Steven was very clear about what to expect from this phase, and what we're seeing aligns with what he said. The official launch is likely still about three years away, and that's perfectly reasonable given the level of polish we all want in the final product.
its not because they made as test 20% that they arn't working on the rest. some bugs will be linked to the engine and help them a ton for the rest of the game.
Yeah, people said the same thing about BG3 when it was in EA "OMG ONLY ACT 1 IS OUT!!! IT'S GONNA TAKE AGES" like holy shit, calm down buddy, they won't show you the entire game.
You keep saying many more years but we also have a completely unfinished MMO that's live right now, Pax Dei. I'd expect that AoC may end up doing the same and go into actual Early Access by next year when they're ~25% complete.
@@Billy-bc8pk I only played Alpha 2 with a buddy and it was in terrible shape. My understanding is they made a fair bit of progress between Alpha 2 and Early access launch but I'm still skeptical.
This just reminds me of how epic wildstar really was as one of the last of the true theme park mmos that ended up failing mostly because of mismanagement and pressure from the parent company.
@@alejandronunez7650 the sc team actually created their own engine and new server meshing tech as well as other new tech not available to use in their team so there's valid reason for its long development.
@@alejandronunez7650 And Gary Oldman, Gillian Anderson, Mark Strong, Mark Hamill, John Rhys-Davies, Andy Serkis, Liam Cunningham and Henry Cavill are all in on it! Get out of here. The "SC is a scam" train retired years ago, don't try to board it like these sad little people who need to shit on stuff for a tiny sense of validation.
I am a sort of a hardcore follower of AoC. I must say that your coverage right there was absolutely on spot and I love the objectivity. Good one, although the title of the vid is kind of... not that objective?
I made it into the recent spot testing. A lot of the basics are kind of a pain. Questing is confusing. If I go somewhere for a quest there are dense packs of mobs that I am not able to get through so I cannot complete the quest. I’m all for group play but if I can’t solo a few of the starter quests it’s pretty disheartening.
They are an independant developer, they need to find ways to bring in revenue. If people are willing to pay for it, and help it get developed, there's nothing wrong with that.
By the time aoc actually releases the main audience is gonna be upper 30s lower 40s with kids and establish careers. Was excited when I first heard about it, but accepting now that I won't be able to play.
People think that everything in the game that was on UE4 just got ported over but that jump required basically everything to be remade for tools and such, but UE5 allows them to do more and will make future engine upgrades much easier. Their are testing features in waves adding different builds vs adding everything they have so they can figure out what each new thing breaks
This game had too large of an ambition for its budget. They promised more than they can make. All it takes is for a larger company to throw $100-200m at an MMORPG project to easily overshadow this game in just a couple of years. I'm not saying this game will 100% fail, but it wont succeed how they thought it would at the pace its being developed. Other games will definitely overshadow this by the time its released.
Plus if it's going to be a 100% PVP designed game it'll naturally do extremely bad it's just a poor sales decision. Look at mortal online there's hardly any people playing it.
Larger companies tend to play safe when it comes to innovations. These smaller companies are the risk takers and when the risk is rewarded, that's the only time these large companies start making it.
Larger companies don't want to make MMOs because it takes a ton of money to make and support, and it's a niche genre. There is a reason why the makers of Black Desert Online, Pearl Abyss' next title (Crimson Desert) isn't an MMO. There is a reason Nightingale decided to pivot from being an MMO to being a shared world survival game. There is a reason why the unseen but talked about Riot MMO has been "reset" and most likely will be cancelled. There is a reason Amazon has rebranded New World as an action RPG with its console launch.
I hope they'll update the character movements before release. Looks pretty clunky and compare to the humanoid models they are walking a bit too fast how much they are moving on the environment. + having a darker shadow in a dark area without any extra light source is strange. 3:38
I think they have working on a system to stream line making models, content, world building, etc all these years. They probably have already finished that part of it. Essentially made an assembly line of sorts. I think once they get the "online" part of it down (The purpose of Alpha 2) where there are next to no connection issues or lag issues (Not saying there won't be) worked out. I think after that, the game is going to be spitting out content like crazy.
Your descriptions are very accurate Force. Well done. It is indeed meant as an alliance versus alliance (many guilds) game, mixing PvPvE. The PvP will have some moderation, but it is not designed to be fully safe PvE playable (it is not like New World).
Thanks for the mention brother 💪 We're currently stress testing servers and surprisingly it's been extremely smooth. ALL A2 testers have been invited to fully stress test today 👀
They're getting a ton of money from folks without having to release the game and the game is nowhere near to be ready to be released?! Say it ain't so!
"Bad news for AoC?" Now is the time to commit meaningful feedback to help create the MMO you're looking for. It's only bad if you don't do anything about it. Also it never ceases to amaze me how many people will play an ALPHA build of a game and go "Where is the game?". Do you people even know what an alpha build is? Evidently not. These are not the kinds of people you want testing your game. They will be focused on the wrong things. (Also Steven said that Alpha 2 will be updated over time with additional content. What players are playing right now isn't even the entire package.)
So let me get this straight. This game started development in 2015. The industry standard for a mmorpg is 7 years. It's already been 9 years, and you're shocked that people reacted this badly to a BAD GAME? The animations look wack, it doesn't have half the things it promised it would, nothing about this game is good. Sure, it's just Alpha. But in the time it took them to release this crap, other games made fully polished games and launched them. Throne and Liberty for example (started development in 2017 and was out in KR by 2023). Why do you find it weird that people who paid money for this game's development get mad over the fact that their money got pretty much stolen? And on top of that they have to pay MORE to get access to the 1/4 of a game they paid for in the beginning? If people were as stupid as yall and accepted crap just because "u-uwu it's just an alpha don't be mean guys" we'd have way shittier games. People getting angry and giving some well deserved backlash helps the game, and ultimately YOU, more than your "uwu let's be kind and understand" attitude. These people don't care about you, they care about your wallet, and if they notice you're not happy with what they're doing and won't pay them more, they're gonna change shit.
@@miuletzmitzu6641 1) No, the industry standard is as long as it takes to get the game to a shippable state. 2) Im not shocked at anything but the idiocy of players who don't know what certain development phases are when they're the ones being exposed to it. 3) Pointing out how other games have releases in this time has literally no weight on anything. What other MMOs have released at the scale that AoC is aimed to operate at? What MMOs have released with the same feature sets and tech? The fact that you're saying this at all tells me you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You literally cannot compare a half-baked mobile port MMO that is 90% preused assets to a game that.. isn't that. You're an idiot. 4) What "backlash"? The largest complaints were about bugs and lack of content... In an alpha build. Not features. Again, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You went off on me as if I'm sitting here defending Intrepid, but not a single thing I said defends them. Lmao. You need some critical thinking skills, broski. Go back to playing your garbage Korean P2W MMOs that they churn out every two years.
Just an FYI, anyone walking into this expecting that Archeage will be a part of its style that's noticeable will likely be disappointed. Most people I think expected 65-70% Archeage 35-40% lineage...try more like 90% lineage 10% Archeage.
Good, L2 was years ahead of other MMOs, way better than what WoW was at that time in terms of social content. The clan and alliance mechanics, clan halls, castles, outposts, sieges, clan wars, etc... Though it was painfully grindy and atrociously unbalanced, I think a modernized version with these issues fixed would be awesome - at least that's my hope for AOC. Archeage was also a great idea at start, playing it in the beginning I felt really immersed in what was a true sandbox MMO, only to be ruined by shitty monetization and later by killing the gameplay. oh and PVP was pretty shit too where everyone just died in 1-2 sec.
I never played Lineage but if it has the social components from Lineage and Archeage with a modern, solid combat fluidity and proper class design, i am totally down for it.
Im the first person to make the joke that "the game will never come out". But tbf to the devs, they were very clear on their video and their website, that the first stage of alpha 2 will be VERY limited in the playable area and amount of content, with the phase 2 and 3 content updates introducing more and more. Expecting more than what they specifically outlined in the alpha is kinda weird.
There is only one real concern for this game and its the fact that its still so many years away from fully releasing that by the time its fully out, there is a very high likelyhood that its going to be already outdated, both graphically and mechanically, if they can ever deliver all their outlandish gameplay promises to begin with. The vast majority of the players are simply skeptical of the final quality of the game and the promises it gave, and they look at this game the same way they look at Star Citizen.
I don't see Unreal Engine 5 games being outdated in the next 7 years. UE5 has all be about introducing new graphical tech (nanite, lumen, proc gen) and that tech will continue to see updates throughout UE5's lifetime. Meanwhile UE6 will be about expanding the engine's multiplayer support capabilities. As for outdated mechanically... it's an MMO. MMOs are the retro genre of video games. People who play them want to be remain mechanically the same.
oh fuck no! the past 5 years we havent had any major graphical breaktroughs, the only ones we had are UE5! ffs gaming companies nowadays just make DEI slob so dont you worry, other then maybe crisis 4 theres not gonna be anything new and groundbreaking in the next 5 - 10 years atleast! Hell id argue that were about to hit a wall in therms of graphics.
3k people was a lot for the current map size. Interestingly enough, the intended land mass is about 10~15 times bigger for launch but the player cap only 3x bigger. Just some food for thought 🙏
I've been following the game's development pretty closely the past two years, and I appreciate what you've had to say concerning the game and it's method of development. I think this video is a perfect entry point into understanding how the game is being made, the monetization used as a crowd funded project, and an overall unbiased look at the whole process. Cheers, Force! Always appreciate your outlook on gaming, especially within the MMO genre. Looking forward to seeing what your thoughts are on this game as development and Alpha testing continues.
People really underestimate how difficult and expensive it is to make big games right now. It already takes 3-6 years for an established studio with a lot of technical background to make a game. It's only logical that a huge MMO will take much longer to develop. And that doesn't make any developer dishonest or malicious, it's just the reality. It's impossible to do these things in less time.
All evidence is it's impossible to do it at all. Yet, 25 years ago, a miniscule team had created Everquest and like 6 expansions in the same amount of time.
@@666Slix that's not the point he was talking about. During those time they had just as much limitations. hell somethings back then we're considered even impossible due to file size.
@@jjstraka1982 MMOs also had zero expectations in those days as they were a brand new market. It turns out when you have higher expectation it costs more money, manpower and resources than it used to
Here's the thing with solo vs group. If you can't do very basic things, like leveling, very efficiently as a solo player, your game is going to have *HUGE* problems. I'm far from one of those people that wants the entire game to be soloable, but it's incredibly important that something so fundamental to the game, like leveling a character, can be done on a player's own time/pace.
its one of the main reasons I'm getting it. about time they make a much harder open world where you need friends.. to many mmo's treat us like brain dead idiots where nearly all of them aren't challenging at all unless you're on the 15th difficulty slider of the same dungeon you've ran 1000 times. harder the better make them dungeons and raids even more sweeter
@@tox_ph0b0s80 I played classic for a year straight and only ever leveled when my buddies were on, the rest of the time was for exploration or social time, talking to peeps in the city
It's not like you need a full group for everything. You and one other can get stuff done. EQ didn't have huge problems because you needed to work with others..
@@cheeemzy6651 Here's the problem though. What happens if say 3 weeks in all your buddies hop to another game but you really want to keep playing this one.
I have to say that I liked my game experience and so I am fully satisfied. Critiquing things that are expected in an Alpha makes me actually wonder if this can be actually taken as a negatiive point as Alpha is exactly there for this. I have no issue with the not overwhelming amount of content as you can learn the mechanics existing better with not 20 systems at the very beginning. Soloing was kinda great so far for me and due to the large amount of players you temporarly group up with randoms when required or when it is helpful. You totally can do it unless you want to become the best at server.
@@DBTHEPLUG WoW classic development took 4 years. And for that time, everything about the game was revolutionary. There's mmos out there, with better resources and software, that don't even come close to the systems and mechanics classic wow has. Also, Throne and Liberty didn't take 13 years of development to take. But it doesn't surprise me that AoC bootlickers spread misinformation like that. Throne and Liberty was first constructed as a Lineage sequel in 2011, a way different game that's more similar to diablo than what it is now. The company wasn't satisfied with it and scratched the whole idea, then came back to it in 2017 and started FROM THE GROUND UP with Project TL. The official start of the development was in 2017, which is 7 years ago. It took 6 years to release in KR, and 7 for the West. AoC has been in development for how many years again? TL isn't the best, but it's pretty decent. It looks good at least, and has some interesting mechanics. AoC legit is an ESO clone, the animations look wack, and besides empty promises with not much to show for it the game got what exactly going for it? Ambition doesn't make a game good. Results do. Throne and Liberty started development around the same time as AoC. Yet one is a fully finished and polished game, that looks amazing, plays good, and has never seen before systems in a mmorpg. And the other has animations that made you think you're watching ESO get ported into Roblox by a 15 year old kid.
@miuletzmitzu6641 When Googling how long the development of Throne and Liberty took, that's the first result that shows up. Go tell Google they're showing the wrong results instead of sending me an essay.
At this point, if it launched today as a perfect MMO I'd have zero interest in playing it. It makes me angry that game development itself has become nothing more than glorified fundraising/money laundering and youtube content creation. Add to that the price gouging to "allow" players to test the product they're supposedly developing and I'll never play it. What happened to giving free keys to test games before release? They've turned game testing into a lucrative business and it's bad for gaming. I'll pass. Too seedy, shady, and nothing but endless dev fundraising.
@@RAWsassin it's alright, I'm just tired of Korean MMO gearing. As an archeage player I was also disappointed by the lack of ocean stuff. I am glad to see a more pvp focused game get attention though.
@@Twilight5007 man I feel like archeage was really next level for its time, so much new content for the genre and so much PvP at the beginning, too bad they messed up the game so soon :(
@@ufukakkoyun6969 How many people were working on the game in the first 4 years of its development you think? It doesn't make sense to say "game is under development for 8 years" when the first few years there were barely 20 people on it.
Steven did make it very clear in there updates that alpha 2 was not about content and was purely about testing the game for bugs and issues. He stated to not participate if you are expecting any notable content to play
Yeah exactly, people have been hammering this whole "there's no content" BS like they expect 50% of the game to release for testing. I mean I get it. It's taking a while it's slow.. but you need to put the time in context with who is making the game and their ultimate goal. This isn't EA with 500 to 1000 working on it to release a shit, buggy, unfinished POS in 4 years. Context matters.
@@mdem5059 Context matters ? How about paying 120 dollars to get a key for a game that promises so much and yet after so many years delivers so little ? Whatever the context : a MMO is one of the most costly and lengthy game to develop. Game will not even be finished in 5 years and need to rely solely on backers to finance the devs. You don't pay a game. You finance devs to work. That's the context. And to be fair, I'd love the game to succeed. I don't have anything against AoC nor the devs or Steven.
@@mimmim13aiv I replied to the comment above me, which doesn't mention anything about the issue of paying for Alpha. I never said there aren't issues with the whole AoC topic, there are many, many many things that they could have done better. Paid Alpha testing being one of them. But without knowing what's behind the curtain, isn't a lot to add to that discussion.
I think people are mostly criticizing that it's in that state 8 years later. At this rate the game will take another decade to implement 50% of what they promised.
@@marcinsarniak to be fair, the Kickstarter itself was only put up, what, 7 and a half years ago? They had a tiny team back then compared to now, and they were still finding their feet. Probably doing a lot of missteps while being a new company. Again you need to have context in mind. You can't or at least shouldn't compare them to a EA who can pump out games in like 5 years (that are majorly unfinished at that). Not to say there aren't things you can't criticise but I think this is the weakest point.
Nothing wrong with trying to innovate their respective genre instead of relying on "AAAA" game devs and publishers so long as their is a community to support it.
They'd have to be selling unreleased mounts at $2K a pop while spending millions on actors like Mark Hamill, Gillian Anderson, and Henry Cavill to talk in their single player game for that to be true.
1:30 Well that's your problem Crowfall was a game that heavily focused, in my mind, around the idea of largescale pvp. Pvp games are never going to obtain the healthy casual population that is necessary for an mmo to continuously develop. It was, imo, destined to fail for as long as they didn't create an engaging set of casual activities to keep people interested. 7:45 Group play is extremely important, but having activities, content, & goals available for you to do when your friends log off is a massive pillar in MMOs that in my mind is a strong tell on if a game will thrive or stagnate. The three pillars of an MMO are group content, solo content, and engaging moment to moment gameplay especially the combat. No one's going to play a game that feels like shite, why are you playing an MMO if there's nothing to do with friends, and a game without previously mentioned solo content will strangle itself to death.
Rumor is that they basically restarted development on the game. I would not say that Alpha 2 having less content than Alpha One is not going to be used as evidence against them.
They have 2x third party testing houses and an internal team of QA. The reason they allow people to buy into Alpha is the transparent development. If they opened it to everyone their server costs would bleed them and they'd need a larger staff to support the servers.
As a long-time MMO'r (over 20 years) I had been really interested in this game until someone said a few years back it was going to be open pvp. I am too old and tired with too little free time to play (full-time job and a family) to have some kid ruin my playtime with a gank fest.
@@DawnChatman keeps an eye on the game.. PK is kinda harsh from what I've been hearing so you will have to keep an eye out but I don't think it's going to be like playing wow on a PVP server and you get spawn camped over and over
@@cynthiahembree3957 oh no on launch everybody's going to be pushing the limits and the boundaries until they dropped something that they didn't want to drop LOL
Visuals don't look great and kind of very simple, empty world, npc and characters don't look great (T&L has done better job on this for sure, and even New World), less contents, lots of technical problems (server related, fps drops and so many others) etc, so how does it different from other mmorpgs that are in development by small gaming studios that got lots of negative feedbacks? It is best to wait Aion 2 or Archeage 2 that are coming within 2025. AoC needs another 5 more years at least!!!
I have been waiting for this game since it first was announced and I will continue waiting. I am like you, I cannot keep beta testing games for developers, especially MMOs.
In fear of getting another run of the mill theme park MMO. I'm glad that they are charging to test the game. This is the way it HAS to be done to avoid another brain dead MMO. The reason they went this route is because the only people that are willing pay to help test the game are people who actually care about the development of the game. I wouldn't want 10k people who want another WoW clone to be testing or giving their feedback based on something that this game isn't trying to be. Not trying to be rude, just offering another perspective.
it sounds like a lot of money in a chunk, but the sub fee is going to be $15/ month so if you take into account that $120 lets you play the game through all testing phases, including beta and gives you a month of play time after 1.0 release, its actually really cheap. of course you could make the point that the sub fee is for a completed game, and alpha doesn't have the same value, but you still get to try all the systems and give feedback so there's value there. if it's not worth it to you, i don't think anyone will twist your arm, but i thought i'd give another perspective on the cost.
I hate how the whole "solo" mmo thing has been brutally misinterpreted in the community by literally devs, and even the community itself. No mmo player ever! Asked to play mmo solo, now humans need solo time period. But what happened was players complaining about not being able to do "group based" content, either cuz no friends, or not leaning towards meta builds etc. So we ended up with now the so called "solo content" super exaggerated catering in an mmo now, And has basically ruined em, no need for social friction has basically removed most of the fun, but most players never realized thats what made it special, the memories, the laughters, up till now, they catching up.
Dick Garriot’s kickstarter “Shroud of the Avatar” went this same way. 10 years later we have 1 & 3/4 chapters to play of the promised 5 chapters. This is not a good Omen. Maybe we’ll get the full game (AoC) around the same time Star Citizen hits final release. Seems like Light No Fire is my last hope. Fingers still crossed for AoC, I’ve been looking forward to it for a long time.
Unless Light No Fire has vastly improved combat over No Man's Sky, it's just going to be a very visually impressive upgrade with unimpressive mechanics. AoC and SC should take all the time they need, because it's not like they have any competition whatsoever.
@@jjstraka1982 wasnt free for those of us foolish enough to back the game in 2014 for hundreds, in some cases tens of thousands of dollars. When Portalarium went tits up, so did the game. Prior to the devs walking away on the backers the game was a subscription model.
Great summary, good points, and very balanced. I will give just a bit of push back, Ashes hasn't been in development for 8 years. The kickstarter was opened as a way to measure if people even wanted a game like this, and at the time, Intrepid had like no workers, baseline game ideas, and iirc not even a physical location, and the that was 7 years ago. The actual work of development didn't start till after that, when Steven actually started attracting a baseline team of developers, in 2018-19, followed up by a fun worldwide timeout. I think you were close, maybe a little optimistic with your first guess back in alpha 1, with what we had available to us, and I think you're pretty close with your current one, though I think 3+ years would be at the high end, assuming no massive stoppages of development.
do some research before posting. those keys give as years of content. plus game time at release. this is an investment for people that actually care about their vision.
@@pogo6543211111111 It's the "Cult of Toxic Positivity". You're why we can't have nice things anymore. I've followed this game for 7yrs. It's a scam. It doesn't take 10-12yrs to make an MMO. Something isn't right.
Me and the boys playing AOC at the retirement home
Not star citizen? Lmao
@@regalgiant1597 It's a contest now which will release into 1.0 first.
Same for me and Pantheon...😂
So this is the SC of Fantasy games
@@regalgiant1597 by the time SC fully launches we'll be able to upload our conciousness' into the 'verse.
- Hopes for a new MMO
- Plays a new MMO
- Gets disapointed on new MMO
- Repeat
Every MMO fan these days.
Are the game companies evil or are we just stupid? Yes.
-Goes back to MMO they have been playing all their life THEN -Repeat lol
@@dupre7416yes
I still miss wildstar
Appreciate the link drop in the description! Love the content!!
Great content dude, thanks for your detailed videos on the game! Helped a ton.
Ricky!
It's crazy that I was 29 when I first heard of this game, I'm 34 now and I'll be 40 when it's released.
I think you mean 80, when you're 80 the game will finally come out lmao
40? That’s enthusiastic
It takes about 5-7 years to make an mmo. The pandemic slowed it down and they also switched to unreal engine so it show move faster they said. It could be worse. You could be waiting for Star Citizen to finish. You were 23 then lol.
@@DJezdic Enthusiastic? I think you mean optimistic 😆
And they have fomoed and scammed enough money to keep going for another 10 years with this bs
Thanks for mentioning my video in the description Force. Fair and great summary on everything AOC. Look forward to seeing your thoughts after getting your hands on it too
Damn it Steven… shouldn’t you be working
Agreed. It's unfair that other AOC creators can take a crap in their hands and put it online and get featured. And you put craftsmanship in and are ignored.
I could not agree with Nyce more, completely based on the negative points.
Thanks for the video Force!!
Nyce is a goat. Make sure you guys give him a follow.
@@zsavior4535 What are you on about? Nyce is literally thanking Force to featuring his content here... how is that being ignored??
GDaaS = Game Development as a Service : They cut a check while you pay them to develop a game, if the game fails, they already got paid. That is how you get a 12+ years game development.
please stop pulling numbers out of ur a$$. posting with 0 research is just attention seeking.
"GDaaS" made me chuckle 🤭
Scam citizen for exemple
Don't buy it then
You dont have to buy it if you dont want though. Just wait.
Hoping the follow up video will be "Good News For Ashes of Creation", stay tuned lol
🤣
Don't hold your breath
Yuck group focused games tend to crash hard.
Man if Thor(Pirate Software) got an interview with Steven we could get some extremely valuable information. He can ask real questions the community NEEDS. I watched NYCE's video and some others but they're just such elementary player questions(I don't mean this as an insult, maybe there is a better way of phrasing it). Not to crap on them because they have value but many, many, many of these types of questions have been absolutely beat to death. The answers to those questions are ambiguous and intent driven, opposed to deep developmental and technical which their is a hunger for albeit I don't think many gamers realize that that's what they're hungry for.
TLDR; Thor(Pirate Software) would be far more qualified to interview Steven. I think his questions would give the community something they really want but don't quite get from the current popular names/interviewers.
I'm not the best writer so I hope I articulated my thoughts well enough. I don't want to add fruitless negativity to the space. I have been a long time follower of NYCE too I hope I didn't offend you brother. I like many of you want to see this project succeed. I understand they are pioneering in their own way and this puts us and them in unfamiliar territory that doesn't match previous boxes we have to put it in. Overall I'm very optimistic even given the timeline. I think the change of game engine was a big hurtle and will remain a hurtle for the foreseeable future but completely necessary.
@@ForceGamingYT it's not looking good bruv, it's not looking good.
I normally play solo but while I was playing over the weekend, I received invites many times which was surprising to me to fight mobs. it was fun. Don't forget this is alpha and the dev is getting feedback and bug reports constantly from players that are playing now. Looking forward to playing every weekend.
Appreciate the shout out Force! I am a channel that has devoted my entire channel predominantly to Ashes of Creation, but I will always look at the game in an objective manner. I love the concept of the game, and I want it to succeed. Part of that is providing criticism when it's warranted.
What is your channel? Love to check it out
Crazy I was in Landmark alpha/beta with you and here we are 10 years later in Ashes. Still going strong Force!
Still sad we never got to see EverQuest Next
I had happily ejected that shitshow from my mind, now it's back. Well, at least we got...got...Oh! A flag in EQ2!
@@ForceGamingYT The way Daybreak manages EQ/EQ2, we're probably better off without it. Both games are now just P2W MTX treadmills through and through.
Tbf, soe started the downfall, daybreak just continued it.
EQ next was the hardest game cancellation to swallow, still hurts man.
I can hear Narc crying in the corner..
Narc is great. FB & R
Narciverse on Twitch
Ooof he fell off
@@regalgiant1597he’s busy eating pizza and being fat.
I can hear him cope 😂
He's got plenty of cope-a-cola to carry him to official launch.
Bro ive been following this games development since i was in puberty by the time this is fully released....ima have kids man 😂
Yea and they will be in puberty as well. 😂
Nah, yo kids will have kids
You are not alone….
Your grandkids will bring you flowers and a copy of ashes to your grave.
I didn't hear any "bad news", I heard "obvious news." But most gamers are oblivious to the obvious.
Man, don’t even get me started on that
Been warning people this game will fail without some major changes and pretty much got told “fuck off, you filthy casual. Go back to retail WoW lol”
@@dragonriderabens9761 You missed the point mate... you're judging an alpha. It's obvious many things will change.
Great video, if i can add some comfort:
Its true that the servers have beens scuffed forever. However yesterday, Intrepid pushed a patch that smoothed the server out so much. This is the smoothest its ever beeen and after 8 hours of playing yestedsy, i only DC'd once.
Hoping it stays strong for this weekend.
This is a good overview talking about the pros and cons here. Well said and appreciate the tag in the description
7 days to die came to STEAM in 2013 with Alpha 5 (I think) and went to Alpha 21 until this year, releasing 1.0 in July 2024...still not complete :)
Let's see if AoC will break that record :)
Alpha 9 is going to be crazy!
It's gonna cost $499.99
🤣🤣🤣
And it’s right around the corner! Only 15 years!!
Alpha 9 from power rangers went crazy because of Ivan Ooze
I'm looking forward to alpha 325...🙃
Oh dude, between Wildstar, Crowfall and Corepunk your opinion is totally justified.
I was in that Crowfall alpha with you, we all saw the problems from such a far distance away. It was so, so avoidable - damned arrogance on the part of those devs. Sad to see Corepunk make the exact same mistakes 5 years on.
I think we're a similar age and have been through all of this together. Fucking RIP dude. Remember Paragon? Christ. Why do these games even have playtests if they don't listen to feedback?
Crowfall broke my heart yo...
Don't forget Camelot Unchained, City of Titans.
I loved wildstar, I wish we could get a re-release
@Valithin Same, the first MMO with a REAL Action Target System even for Auto Attacks. I think the unconsistancy and the wrong marketing broke their neck a little. Also i think scifi isnt everybodys cup of tea. BUT theres a little hope, some people try to reingeniere the Game but it takes Time
@@sergeantyoshi656 there are two groups i know of working on getting WS back up and running, unfortunately that's still a ways off from completion.
The issue with Wildstar is it had a bad launch. It was too "hardcore" for casual players, the paid sub in a time when mmo's were dying off a bit, server issues on launch, and unfortunately scifi just isn't as popular. I still think it has the most engaging gameplay, I'm playing WoW again, and it is just shutting off my brain to do content.
I might check it out when its close to releasing in 2030, and Albion Online exists.
Albion not that fun. This will be very different (if it ever comes out lmao)
@@ZiggyvuAlbion is a lot of fun once you get over the fear of dying.
@@ZiggyvuAlbion is a lot more fun if you leave the yellow zones
@@matthewmammothswine4395 I really wanna like Albion and i do like a lot of aspects, but full loot pvp is just unnecessarily annoying. AoC's approach makes much more sense, you can actually go for gear progression long-term and it's not just a temporary piece of power that exists until your next death
@@Dangerous1939 it’s not annoying at all once you understand that your gear is just a consumable, and that your specs in armor/weapons are what your real gear is. You cannot lose silver (your main resource) and you cannot lose spec (essentially your gear progression). People just have a hard time grasping this because it’s not like most other MMOs.
Development progress has been depressingly slow but if it's not ready, it's not ready. Maybe there isn't enough staff. Maybe they have a healthy work-life balance and aren't under pressure to work insane hours. Maybe they just aren't very good at this yet. If it's not ready, it's not ready.
"I will still might do go off on my own section and do my solo thing" - Force Gaming 2024 @ 7:45
This is truly a heroic quote.
[I have to clarify this it not about Force: great video, very clear and accurate!] There is too much publicity or talk about this alpha TEST. It makes me see or feel like they should have kept the NDA. As a test, there will be plenty of limits (only some content), performance issues, etc. giving fools a bad impression (no matter how many times you repeat the words ALPHA / TEST). Hopefully I am wrong. And, anyway, if the actual released game in a few years is really good, gamers will figure it out...
The running looks like string puppets lol
that's why NDA is a thing, tomorrow you'll see way better footage
@@pogo6543211111111 hopefully.
@@pogo6543211111111 No you wont lol
@@pogo6543211111111 wtf are you talking about 😂 please seek help delusional cultist
@@thirtysilver33 an other internet expert.
Thanks for the Wayfinder video!
it's a Phantasy Star Online fever dream and I cant put it down, so damn good :D
For an alpha where the developers have warned about the lack of content, I'm not concerned yet. They've been pretty up front about it.
It seems people may have very unrealistic expectations for a game that just entered the Alpha 2 phase of development. At this stage, content and questing aren’t the primary focus; the goal is to test the core mechanics, server stability and scalability, gather player feedback, and build a stable foundation. Steven was very clear about what to expect from this phase, and what we're seeing aligns with what he said. The official launch is likely still about three years away, and that's perfectly reasonable given the level of polish we all want in the final product.
Hes also a proven liar and scammer.
grifting w the title, bugs are to be expected, the only real concern is server stability
It looks decent. If it manages to make a profit, I can see it continued to be developed for years. I hope it succeeds.
if it took 7 years to get 20 percent what are we looking at 30+ years for completion?
its not because they made as test 20% that they arn't working on the rest. some bugs will be linked to the engine and help them a ton for the rest of the game.
We all be dead by that time don't worry
No beacuse once one zone is completed, they can do copy paste. They are building the base game now, adding stuff takes less time.
people thinking that 20% released to the public means there is 0 progress on all the rest of the content, bravo XDDD
Yeah, people said the same thing about BG3 when it was in EA "OMG ONLY ACT 1 IS OUT!!! IT'S GONNA TAKE AGES" like holy shit, calm down buddy, they won't show you the entire game.
1:40 "first crowd funded MMO to no flop"... Wow, guess they completely forgot about Albion
I just wanna point out that Steven has said MULTIPLE MULTIPLE times that do not expect this to be a playable game, it's a "TRUE ALPHA" lol
I will check it out when it comes out.
Ooof... Crowfall.... I'm still QQing too
Still "hyped" but yeah man...gotta move on to like my professional development, retirement goals, etc...while I wait for this thing :D
You keep saying many more years but we also have a completely unfinished MMO that's live right now, Pax Dei. I'd expect that AoC may end up doing the same and go into actual Early Access by next year when they're ~25% complete.
Is Pax Dei any good?
@@Billy-bc8pk I only played Alpha 2 with a buddy and it was in terrible shape. My understanding is they made a fair bit of progress between Alpha 2 and Early access launch but I'm still skeptical.
This just reminds me of how epic wildstar really was as one of the last of the true theme park mmos that ended up failing mostly because of mismanagement and pressure from the parent company.
Don't worry guys, it will launch about the same time as Star Citizen
lmao, 2 biggest scams in gaming history! how do people not see this??
@@alejandronunez7650 the sc team actually created their own engine and new server meshing tech as well as other new tech not available to use in their team so there's valid reason for its long development.
@@alejandronunez7650 And Gary Oldman, Gillian Anderson, Mark Strong, Mark Hamill, John Rhys-Davies, Andy Serkis, Liam Cunningham and Henry Cavill are all in on it! Get out of here.
The "SC is a scam" train retired years ago, don't try to board it like these sad little people who need to shit on stuff for a tiny sense of validation.
It will still release before Camelot Unchained.
@@fuethao8633I kind of chuckle with the server meshing because they relabeled technology that was already created. However it's a great PR stunt.
Very good video, good points both for and against. Love that kind of content!
Instant subscribe!
looking forward for this in 2030.
Looks like the game is in the state as advertised. Good vid. thanks. They warned people to stay away if you are looking for any polish.
3 - 4 years? Most of us are gonna be damn near 40 by then.
Welcome brother, there are many 30-40+ year olds in this community. It is all welcoming.😅
MMORPGS are predominately played by 40-60 year old men lmao its a very niche market that mostly retired people have time to play tbh.
Oh yea? Well your mom was 40 when I met her!!!
@@ggNotSuree wtf ?
53
I am a sort of a hardcore follower of AoC. I must say that your coverage right there was absolutely on spot and I love the objectivity. Good one, although the title of the vid is kind of... not that objective?
I made it into the recent spot testing. A lot of the basics are kind of a pain. Questing is confusing. If I go somewhere for a quest there are dense packs of mobs that I am not able to get through so I cannot complete the quest. I’m all for group play but if I can’t solo a few of the starter quests it’s pretty disheartening.
$120 for an unfinished MMO without a wide release? Alright.
They are an independant developer, they need to find ways to bring in revenue. If people are willing to pay for it, and help it get developed, there's nothing wrong with that.
@@BattleBorn13 Get a bank loan, like everyone else?
@Legnica148 why when people are willing to pay?
@djpharaohz yes that's the issue in the end... there are indeed retards giving free money to a complete scam. So yeah, can't blame them.
@@BattleBorn13 its a scam is what it is
By the time aoc actually releases the main audience is gonna be upper 30s lower 40s with kids and establish careers. Was excited when I first heard about it, but accepting now that I won't be able to play.
People think that everything in the game that was on UE4 just got ported over but that jump required basically everything to be remade for tools and such, but UE5 allows them to do more and will make future engine upgrades much easier. Their are testing features in waves adding different builds vs adding everything they have so they can figure out what each new thing breaks
This game had too large of an ambition for its budget. They promised more than they can make. All it takes is for a larger company to throw $100-200m at an MMORPG project to easily overshadow this game in just a couple of years. I'm not saying this game will 100% fail, but it wont succeed how they thought it would at the pace its being developed. Other games will definitely overshadow this by the time its released.
Plus if it's going to be a 100% PVP designed game it'll naturally do extremely bad it's just a poor sales decision. Look at mortal online there's hardly any people playing it.
Just like Amazon studios 😁 ?
Larger companies tend to play safe when it comes to innovations. These smaller companies are the risk takers and when the risk is rewarded, that's the only time these large companies start making it.
It's already suceeded as an investment vehicle, and that's all that really matters at the end of the day 😄
Larger companies don't want to make MMOs because it takes a ton of money to make and support, and it's a niche genre. There is a reason why the makers of Black Desert Online, Pearl Abyss' next title (Crimson Desert) isn't an MMO. There is a reason Nightingale decided to pivot from being an MMO to being a shared world survival game. There is a reason why the unseen but talked about Riot MMO has been "reset" and most likely will be cancelled. There is a reason Amazon has rebranded New World as an action RPG with its console launch.
I hope they'll update the character movements before release. Looks pretty clunky and compare to the humanoid models they are walking a bit too fast how much they are moving on the environment.
+ having a darker shadow in a dark area without any extra light source is strange. 3:38
Just 8 more years from now...
I think they have working on a system to stream line making models, content, world building, etc all these years. They probably have already finished that part of it. Essentially made an assembly line of sorts. I think once they get the "online" part of it down (The purpose of Alpha 2) where there are next to no connection issues or lag issues (Not saying there won't be) worked out. I think after that, the game is going to be spitting out content like crazy.
This game will not be fully realized until 2029. And I’m being for real. And that’s at the earliest.
Your descriptions are very accurate Force. Well done. It is indeed meant as an alliance versus alliance (many guilds) game, mixing PvPvE. The PvP will have some moderation, but it is not designed to be fully safe PvE playable (it is not like New World).
Thanks for the mention brother 💪
We're currently stress testing servers and surprisingly it's been extremely smooth.
ALL A2 testers have been invited to fully stress test today 👀
HOLY SHIT IT'S JAMIE
@@quackwilliams5933 let's gooo! 🤣
Not all of us...stuck in Wave 1 😢
@@Texinga We're crawling on broken knees you you may run with stubbed toes 🥺🤣
@@quackwilliams5933 hell yeah dude 🤣
eyy good video , very informative and actually knowing what you're talking about
They're getting a ton of money from folks without having to release the game and the game is nowhere near to be ready to be released?! Say it ain't so!
Thanks for summarising this. The Ashes UA-camrs really don't make themselves easy to listen to.
"Bad news for AoC?"
Now is the time to commit meaningful feedback to help create the MMO you're looking for. It's only bad if you don't do anything about it.
Also it never ceases to amaze me how many people will play an ALPHA build of a game and go "Where is the game?". Do you people even know what an alpha build is? Evidently not. These are not the kinds of people you want testing your game. They will be focused on the wrong things.
(Also Steven said that Alpha 2 will be updated over time with additional content. What players are playing right now isn't even the entire package.)
Finally someone who summarized how stupid people are.
Thank you.
cope harder.
@@Wotanson56 Where is the cope? You should spend less time projecting your insecurities on others and more time thinking critically.
So let me get this straight. This game started development in 2015. The industry standard for a mmorpg is 7 years. It's already been 9 years, and you're shocked that people reacted this badly to a BAD GAME? The animations look wack, it doesn't have half the things it promised it would, nothing about this game is good. Sure, it's just Alpha. But in the time it took them to release this crap, other games made fully polished games and launched them. Throne and Liberty for example (started development in 2017 and was out in KR by 2023). Why do you find it weird that people who paid money for this game's development get mad over the fact that their money got pretty much stolen? And on top of that they have to pay MORE to get access to the 1/4 of a game they paid for in the beginning?
If people were as stupid as yall and accepted crap just because "u-uwu it's just an alpha don't be mean guys" we'd have way shittier games. People getting angry and giving some well deserved backlash helps the game, and ultimately YOU, more than your "uwu let's be kind and understand" attitude. These people don't care about you, they care about your wallet, and if they notice you're not happy with what they're doing and won't pay them more, they're gonna change shit.
@@miuletzmitzu6641
1) No, the industry standard is as long as it takes to get the game to a shippable state.
2) Im not shocked at anything but the idiocy of players who don't know what certain development phases are when they're the ones being exposed to it.
3) Pointing out how other games have releases in this time has literally no weight on anything. What other MMOs have released at the scale that AoC is aimed to operate at? What MMOs have released with the same feature sets and tech? The fact that you're saying this at all tells me you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You literally cannot compare a half-baked mobile port MMO that is 90% preused assets to a game that.. isn't that. You're an idiot.
4) What "backlash"? The largest complaints were about bugs and lack of content... In an alpha build. Not features. Again, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You went off on me as if I'm sitting here defending Intrepid, but not a single thing I said defends them. Lmao. You need some critical thinking skills, broski. Go back to playing your garbage Korean P2W MMOs that they churn out every two years.
The good thing about Ashes is that, when it finally launches, it can sell itself as a nostalic retro-style MMO.
Just an FYI, anyone walking into this expecting that Archeage will be a part of its style that's noticeable will likely be disappointed. Most people I think expected 65-70% Archeage 35-40% lineage...try more like 90% lineage 10% Archeage.
So will it feel old n clunky then
@@Monkeyswheelchair it doesn't feel great right now tbh....at least ranger doesn't.
Good, L2 was years ahead of other MMOs, way better than what WoW was at that time in terms of social content.
The clan and alliance mechanics, clan halls, castles, outposts, sieges, clan wars, etc... Though it was painfully grindy and atrociously unbalanced, I think a modernized version with these issues fixed would be awesome - at least that's my hope for AOC.
Archeage was also a great idea at start, playing it in the beginning I felt really immersed in what was a true sandbox MMO, only to be ruined by shitty monetization and later by killing the gameplay. oh and PVP was pretty shit too where everyone just died in 1-2 sec.
I never played Lineage but if it has the social components from Lineage and Archeage with a modern, solid combat fluidity and proper class design, i am totally down for it.
Respect for showing love to the Ashes of Creation community, brother.
Wonder if my child will get a refund for backing this on Kickstarter if I die of old age before it releases.
Im the first person to make the joke that "the game will never come out". But tbf to the devs, they were very clear on their video and their website, that the first stage of alpha 2 will be VERY limited in the playable area and amount of content, with the phase 2 and 3 content updates introducing more and more. Expecting more than what they specifically outlined in the alpha is kinda weird.
There is only one real concern for this game and its the fact that its still so many years away from fully releasing that by the time its fully out, there is a very high likelyhood that its going to be already outdated, both graphically and mechanically, if they can ever deliver all their outlandish gameplay promises to begin with. The vast majority of the players are simply skeptical of the final quality of the game and the promises it gave, and they look at this game the same way they look at Star Citizen.
Except Star Citizen made good progress considering its the single most ambitious game EVER. Nobody with half a brain looks at Star Citizen badly
I don't see Unreal Engine 5 games being outdated in the next 7 years. UE5 has all be about introducing new graphical tech (nanite, lumen, proc gen) and that tech will continue to see updates throughout UE5's lifetime. Meanwhile UE6 will be about expanding the engine's multiplayer support capabilities.
As for outdated mechanically... it's an MMO. MMOs are the retro genre of video games. People who play them want to be remain mechanically the same.
oh fuck no! the past 5 years we havent had any major graphical breaktroughs, the only ones we had are UE5! ffs gaming companies nowadays just make DEI slob so dont you worry, other then maybe crisis 4 theres not gonna be anything new and groundbreaking in the next 5 - 10 years atleast!
Hell id argue that were about to hit a wall in therms of graphics.
@@puddingsimon2626 threw dei in there for no reason, enjoy your bigotry.
@@Athasin you mean Stutter Engine 5?
3k people was a lot for the current map size. Interestingly enough, the intended land mass is about 10~15 times bigger for launch but the player cap only 3x bigger. Just some food for thought 🙏
I wonder if GW3 will be released before this game.
I've been following the game's development pretty closely the past two years, and I appreciate what you've had to say concerning the game and it's method of development.
I think this video is a perfect entry point into understanding how the game is being made, the monetization used as a crowd funded project, and an overall unbiased look at the whole process.
Cheers, Force! Always appreciate your outlook on gaming, especially within the MMO genre.
Looking forward to seeing what your thoughts are on this game as development and Alpha testing continues.
People really underestimate how difficult and expensive it is to make big games right now. It already takes 3-6 years for an established studio with a lot of technical background to make a game. It's only logical that a huge MMO will take much longer to develop. And that doesn't make any developer dishonest or malicious, it's just the reality. It's impossible to do these things in less time.
All evidence is it's impossible to do it at all. Yet, 25 years ago, a miniscule team had created Everquest and like 6 expansions in the same amount of time.
@@jjstraka1982but where is now the EQ in trash GG
@@666Slix that's not the point he was talking about. During those time they had just as much limitations. hell somethings back then we're considered even impossible due to file size.
@@jjstraka1982 MMOs also had zero expectations in those days as they were a brand new market. It turns out when you have higher expectation it costs more money, manpower and resources than it used to
I've seen roblox open world mmos be completed in far less time.
Thanks for the video!
Here's the thing with solo vs group.
If you can't do very basic things, like leveling, very efficiently as a solo player, your game is going to have *HUGE* problems.
I'm far from one of those people that wants the entire game to be soloable, but it's incredibly important that something so fundamental to the game, like leveling a character, can be done on a player's own time/pace.
its one of the main reasons I'm getting it. about time they make a much harder open world where you need friends.. to many mmo's treat us like brain dead idiots where nearly all of them aren't challenging at all unless you're on the 15th difficulty slider of the same dungeon you've ran 1000 times. harder the better make them dungeons and raids even more sweeter
@@tox_ph0b0s80 I played classic for a year straight and only ever leveled when my buddies were on, the rest of the time was for exploration or social time, talking to peeps in the city
@@cheeemzy6651 yeah that me too. I'm tired of all the solo mmos. I miss the old days when grouping was a thing.
It's not like you need a full group for everything. You and one other can get stuff done. EQ didn't have huge problems because you needed to work with others..
@@cheeemzy6651 Here's the problem though. What happens if say 3 weeks in all your buddies hop to another game but you really want to keep playing this one.
I have to say that I liked my game experience and so I am fully satisfied.
Critiquing things that are expected in an Alpha makes me actually wonder if this can be actually taken as a negatiive point as Alpha is exactly there for this.
I have no issue with the not overwhelming amount of content as you can learn the mechanics existing better with not 20 systems at the very beginning.
Soloing was kinda great so far for me and due to the large amount of players you temporarly group up with randoms when required or when it is helpful. You totally can do it unless you want to become the best at server.
I gotta say... Such a long wait for this game, and then everytime i see the combat i am like "oh, is that ESO?... Oh its ashes... Ok."
Long wait? Throne and Liberty's development took 13 years before it released. And this game is supposed to be more ambitious than that.
@@DBTHEPLUG WoW classic development took 4 years. And for that time, everything about the game was revolutionary. There's mmos out there, with better resources and software, that don't even come close to the systems and mechanics classic wow has. Also, Throne and Liberty didn't take 13 years of development to take. But it doesn't surprise me that AoC bootlickers spread misinformation like that. Throne and Liberty was first constructed as a Lineage sequel in 2011, a way different game that's more similar to diablo than what it is now. The company wasn't satisfied with it and scratched the whole idea, then came back to it in 2017 and started FROM THE GROUND UP with Project TL. The official start of the development was in 2017, which is 7 years ago. It took 6 years to release in KR, and 7 for the West. AoC has been in development for how many years again?
TL isn't the best, but it's pretty decent. It looks good at least, and has some interesting mechanics. AoC legit is an ESO clone, the animations look wack, and besides empty promises with not much to show for it the game got what exactly going for it? Ambition doesn't make a game good. Results do. Throne and Liberty started development around the same time as AoC. Yet one is a fully finished and polished game, that looks amazing, plays good, and has never seen before systems in a mmorpg. And the other has animations that made you think you're watching ESO get ported into Roblox by a 15 year old kid.
@@miuletzmitzu6641 I mean, didn't they already make WoW classic in 2004?
@miuletzmitzu6641 When Googling how long the development of Throne and Liberty took, that's the first result that shows up.
Go tell Google they're showing the wrong results instead of sending me an essay.
Thank you man!}} you just save me 120 bucks. you are the best!
It is 2035, we have flying cars and the Mars has its first human settlements, and Ashes of Creation is getting ready for Alpha Phase 3
At this point, if it launched today as a perfect MMO I'd have zero interest in playing it. It makes me angry that game development itself has become nothing more than glorified fundraising/money laundering and youtube content creation. Add to that the price gouging to "allow" players to test the product they're supposedly developing and I'll never play it. What happened to giving free keys to test games before release? They've turned game testing into a lucrative business and it's bad for gaming. I'll pass. Too seedy, shady, and nothing but endless dev fundraising.
EQNext. Crowfall. Camelot. Pantheon. Ashes... etc ... Agreed - I am sick of these crowdfunded MMO's that never release a viable product.
Crowdfunded = passionless and high profit business opportunity.
Couldn't agree more - I Kickstarted Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen and Ashes - never again!
Couldn't agree more on your closing statement.
The game is a perfect example of why overdesign can be bad
It will crash and burn, like Icarus
I lost interest a while ago. I hope the game turns out great. Whenever it’s done I may check it out. Thanks for the video and enjoy the testing!
When the riot MMO comes out before ashes does
When the zoomer doesn't even realize he can only talk in meme syntax
@@zazikikomo7796 Who hurt you so badly that a joke about an mmo causes you to attack people?
and its gonna fail. idk why look for new mmorpg now when throne and liberty is literally amazing
@@RAWsassin it's alright, I'm just tired of Korean MMO gearing. As an archeage player I was also disappointed by the lack of ocean stuff. I am glad to see a more pvp focused game get attention though.
@@Twilight5007 man I feel like archeage was really next level for its time, so much new content for the genre and so much PvP at the beginning, too bad they messed up the game so soon :(
As a fellow Crowfall hopeful, I feel the same. It was the ONE game I allowed myself to get hyped about and Kickstarted the shit out of. Alas.
I was 20 when I first heard of this game lmao, I'm 27 now
@@Touchin-Grass If the game was released now. But it will probably be closer to a 15 year development cycle
@@Touchin-Grass it is not 5yrs max is a normal cycle this will need 11yrs and i im optimistc with the 11yrs, its way to long.
@@ufukakkoyun6969 5 years max? eso took 7 years and gw2 took 6 years and that are no small studios
@@ufukakkoyun6969 How many people were working on the game in the first 4 years of its development you think?
It doesn't make sense to say "game is under development for 8 years" when the first few years there were barely 20 people on it.
How old were you when Rockstar started working on GTA 6?
AoC is not casual friendly, then it's not the game for me. Sorry a video game is not a job for me.
Steven did make it very clear in there updates that alpha 2 was not about content and was purely about testing the game for bugs and issues. He stated to not participate if you are expecting any notable content to play
Yeah exactly, people have been hammering this whole "there's no content" BS like they expect 50% of the game to release for testing.
I mean I get it. It's taking a while it's slow.. but you need to put the time in context with who is making the game and their ultimate goal.
This isn't EA with 500 to 1000 working on it to release a shit, buggy, unfinished POS in 4 years.
Context matters.
@@mdem5059 Context matters ? How about paying 120 dollars to get a key for a game that promises so much and yet after so many years delivers so little ? Whatever the context : a MMO is one of the most costly and lengthy game to develop. Game will not even be finished in 5 years and need to rely solely on backers to finance the devs. You don't pay a game. You finance devs to work.
That's the context.
And to be fair, I'd love the game to succeed. I don't have anything against AoC nor the devs or Steven.
@@mimmim13aiv I replied to the comment above me, which doesn't mention anything about the issue of paying for Alpha.
I never said there aren't issues with the whole AoC topic, there are many, many many things that they could have done better. Paid Alpha testing being one of them.
But without knowing what's behind the curtain, isn't a lot to add to that discussion.
I think people are mostly criticizing that it's in that state 8 years later. At this rate the game will take another decade to implement 50% of what they promised.
@@marcinsarniak to be fair, the Kickstarter itself was only put up, what, 7 and a half years ago?
They had a tiny team back then compared to now, and they were still finding their feet. Probably doing a lot of missteps while being a new company.
Again you need to have context in mind. You can't or at least shouldn't compare them to a EA who can pump out games in like 5 years (that are majorly unfinished at that).
Not to say there aren't things you can't criticise but I think this is the weakest point.
Crowfall "emerald level" supporter here. To say i know your pain would be an understatement.
Medieval Star Citizen.
Nothing wrong with trying to innovate their respective genre instead of relying on "AAAA" game devs and publishers so long as their is a community to support it.
They'd have to be selling unreleased mounts at $2K a pop while spending millions on actors like Mark Hamill, Gillian Anderson, and Henry Cavill to talk in their single player game for that to be true.
If it is, I'm 100% for it.
@@Athasin Star citizen doesnt make you pay $15 a month to play. AOC is definitely worse
At least all I paid and need to pay for SC was $45; I'm not dropping $120 to play this
1:30 Well that's your problem Crowfall was a game that heavily focused, in my mind, around the idea of largescale pvp. Pvp games are never going to obtain the healthy casual population that is necessary for an mmo to continuously develop. It was, imo, destined to fail for as long as they didn't create an engaging set of casual activities to keep people interested.
7:45 Group play is extremely important, but having activities, content, & goals available for you to do when your friends log off is a massive pillar in MMOs that in my mind is a strong tell on if a game will thrive or stagnate.
The three pillars of an MMO are group content, solo content, and engaging moment to moment gameplay especially the combat. No one's going to play a game that feels like shite, why are you playing an MMO if there's nothing to do with friends, and a game without previously mentioned solo content will strangle itself to death.
Rumor is that they basically restarted development on the game. I would not say that Alpha 2 having less content than Alpha One is not going to be used as evidence against them.
They have 2x third party testing houses and an internal team of QA. The reason they allow people to buy into Alpha is the transparent development. If they opened it to everyone their server costs would bleed them and they'd need a larger staff to support the servers.
BS i know dudes that host private Game servers in their basement for thousands of people all by themselves.
As a long-time MMO'r (over 20 years) I had been really interested in this game until someone said a few years back it was going to be open pvp. I am too old and tired with too little free time to play (full-time job and a family) to have some kid ruin my playtime with a gank fest.
@@DawnChatman keeps an eye on the game.. PK is kinda harsh from what I've been hearing so you will have to keep an eye out but I don't think it's going to be like playing wow on a PVP server and you get spawn camped over and over
@@FatPeanutsFat Well that should be true eventually but on A2 launch I wouldn't hold your breath
@@cynthiahembree3957 oh no on launch everybody's going to be pushing the limits and the boundaries until they dropped something that they didn't want to drop LOL
If a team is gonna work this hard for this long on a bold vision, I'm going to pay and enjoy it for what it's worth - bugs and all. C'est la vie
Visuals don't look great and kind of very simple, empty world, npc and characters don't look great (T&L has done better job on this for sure, and even New World), less contents, lots of technical problems (server related, fps drops and so many others) etc, so how does it different from other mmorpgs that are in development by small gaming studios that got lots of negative feedbacks? It is best to wait Aion 2 or Archeage 2 that are coming within 2025. AoC needs another 5 more years at least!!!
I have been waiting for this game since it first was announced and I will continue waiting. I am like you, I cannot keep beta testing games for developers, especially MMOs.
As soon as you said not solo friendly I checked out
Good video, thanks!
Big pass for that kind of money. They should be paying me to test their game.
they indeed have people testing the game getting payed, ur a nobody tho, if you dont want to test, just dont lol, no one forcing u
@@JunimonPK do they though?
In fear of getting another run of the mill theme park MMO. I'm glad that they are charging to test the game. This is the way it HAS to be done to avoid another brain dead MMO. The reason they went this route is because the only people that are willing pay to help test the game are people who actually care about the development of the game. I wouldn't want 10k people who want another WoW clone to be testing or giving their feedback based on something that this game isn't trying to be. Not trying to be rude, just offering another perspective.
@@Mibarri Whatever you have to tell yourself man.
it sounds like a lot of money in a chunk, but the sub fee is going to be $15/ month so if you take into account that $120 lets you play the game through all testing phases, including beta and gives you a month of play time after 1.0 release, its actually really cheap. of course you could make the point that the sub fee is for a completed game, and alpha doesn't have the same value, but you still get to try all the systems and give feedback so there's value there. if it's not worth it to you, i don't think anyone will twist your arm, but i thought i'd give another perspective on the cost.
I hate how the whole "solo" mmo thing has been brutally misinterpreted in the community by literally devs, and even the community itself. No mmo player ever! Asked to play mmo solo, now humans need solo time period. But what happened was players complaining about not being able to do "group based" content, either cuz no friends, or not leaning towards meta builds etc. So we ended up with now the so called "solo content" super exaggerated catering in an mmo now, And has basically ruined em, no need for social friction has basically removed most of the fun, but most players never realized thats what made it special, the memories, the laughters, up till now, they catching up.
The idea to pay them for testing their game is foreign to me.
As a product it's a very bad purchase. People who buy in are hopeful that the game will be good one day and want to help make it that way.
After i see the character walking and runing im out that tells me everything
Dick Garriot’s kickstarter “Shroud of the Avatar” went this same way. 10 years later we have 1 & 3/4 chapters to play of the promised 5 chapters. This is not a good Omen. Maybe we’ll get the full game (AoC) around the same time Star Citizen hits final release. Seems like Light No Fire is my last hope. Fingers still crossed for AoC, I’ve been looking forward to it for a long time.
At least that game is literally free and can be played totally solo offline.
Unless Light No Fire has vastly improved combat over No Man's Sky, it's just going to be a very visually impressive upgrade with unimpressive mechanics. AoC and SC should take all the time they need, because it's not like they have any competition whatsoever.
@@jjstraka1982 wasnt free for those of us foolish enough to back the game in 2014 for hundreds, in some cases tens of thousands of dollars. When Portalarium went tits up, so did the game. Prior to the devs walking away on the backers the game was a subscription model.
Great summary, good points, and very balanced. I will give just a bit of push back, Ashes hasn't been in development for 8 years. The kickstarter was opened as a way to measure if people even wanted a game like this, and at the time, Intrepid had like no workers, baseline game ideas, and iirc not even a physical location, and the that was 7 years ago. The actual work of development didn't start till after that, when Steven actually started attracting a baseline team of developers, in 2018-19, followed up by a fun worldwide timeout.
I think you were close, maybe a little optimistic with your first guess back in alpha 1, with what we had available to us, and I think you're pretty close with your current one, though I think 3+ years would be at the high end, assuming no massive stoppages of development.
This game is a scam at this point. Look at the prices they're charging for access. Never pre-order.
do some research before posting. those keys give as years of content. plus game time at release. this is an investment for people that actually care about their vision.
@@pogo6543211111111”years of content” that didn’t exist and should have existed like 3 years ago ?
You're such a big idiot and you don't even realize why.
@@pogo6543211111111 It's the "Cult of Toxic Positivity". You're why we can't have nice things anymore.
I've followed this game for 7yrs. It's a scam. It doesn't take 10-12yrs to make an MMO. Something isn't right.