It takes about 5-7 years to make an mmo. The pandemic slowed it down and they also switched to unreal engine so it show move faster they said. It could be worse. You could be waiting for Star Citizen to finish. You were 23 then lol.
GDaaS = Game Development as a Service : They cut a check while you pay them to develop a game, if the game fails, they already got paid. That is how you get a 12+ years game development.
Thanks for mentioning my video in the description Force. Fair and great summary on everything AOC. Look forward to seeing your thoughts after getting your hands on it too
Agreed. It's unfair that other AOC creators can take a crap in their hands and put it online and get featured. And you put craftsmanship in and are ignored.
Man, don’t even get me started on that Been warning people this game will fail without some major changes and pretty much got told “fuck off, you filthy casual. Go back to retail WoW lol”
I normally play solo but while I was playing over the weekend, I received invites many times which was surprising to me to fight mobs. it was fun. Don't forget this is alpha and the dev is getting feedback and bug reports constantly from players that are playing now. Looking forward to playing every weekend.
Man if Thor(Pirate Software) got an interview with Steven we could get some extremely valuable information. He can ask real questions the community NEEDS. I watched NYCE's video and some others but they're just such elementary player questions(I don't mean this as an insult, maybe there is a better way of phrasing it). Not to crap on them because they have value but many, many, many of these types of questions have been absolutely beat to death. The answers to those questions are ambiguous and intent driven, opposed to deep developmental and technical which their is a hunger for albeit I don't think many gamers realize that that's what they're hungry for. TLDR; Thor(Pirate Software) would be far more qualified to interview Steven. I think his questions would give the community something they really want but don't quite get from the current popular names/interviewers. I'm not the best writer so I hope I articulated my thoughts well enough. I don't want to add fruitless negativity to the space. I have been a long time follower of NYCE too I hope I didn't offend you brother. I like many of you want to see this project succeed. I understand they are pioneering in their own way and this puts us and them in unfamiliar territory that doesn't match previous boxes we have to put it in. Overall I'm very optimistic even given the timeline. I think the change of game engine was a big hurtle and will remain a hurtle for the foreseeable future but completely necessary.
7 days to die came to STEAM in 2013 with Alpha 5 (I think) and went to Alpha 21 until this year, releasing 1.0 in July 2024...still not complete :) Let's see if AoC will break that record :)
its not because they made as test 20% that they arn't working on the rest. some bugs will be linked to the engine and help them a ton for the rest of the game.
Yeah, people said the same thing about BG3 when it was in EA "OMG ONLY ACT 1 IS OUT!!! IT'S GONNA TAKE AGES" like holy shit, calm down buddy, they won't show you the entire game.
Appreciate the shout out Force! I am a channel that has devoted my entire channel predominantly to Ashes of Creation, but I will always look at the game in an objective manner. I love the concept of the game, and I want it to succeed. Part of that is providing criticism when it's warranted.
A lot of these Kickstarters wildly underestimate the cost of production and wildly overestimate their resources and timelines. As nice of a tale the whole staying independent is, when you have to sell 120$ keys and cosmetics years ahead of release it’s probably a sign that the funding is inadequate. Also the notion that all investors are evil and corrupt is a bit far fetched and likely propagated by leveraged buyouts. It’s a bit of a disservice to choose to take that much from supporters of the game instead of giving up a non-controlling amount of equity to secure proper funding (that’s what term sheets and contracts are for). The game likely suffers from feature creep as well, which probably makes development less focused resulting in even more of a drain on resources and time.
They are an independant developer, they need to find ways to bring in revenue. If people are willing to pay for it, and help it get developed, there's nothing wrong with that.
People think that everything in the game that was on UE4 just got ported over but that jump required basically everything to be remade for tools and such, but UE5 allows them to do more and will make future engine upgrades much easier. Their are testing features in waves adding different builds vs adding everything they have so they can figure out what each new thing breaks
@@alejandronunez7650 the sc team actually created their own engine and new server meshing tech as well as other new tech not available to use in their team so there's valid reason for its long development.
@@alejandronunez7650 And Gary Oldman, Gillian Anderson, Mark Strong, Mark Hamill, John Rhys-Davies, Andy Serkis, Liam Cunningham and Henry Cavill are all in on it! Get out of here. The "SC is a scam" train retired years ago, don't try to board it like these sad little people who need to shit on stuff for a tiny sense of validation.
Development progress has been depressingly slow but if it's not ready, it's not ready. Maybe there isn't enough staff. Maybe they have a healthy work-life balance and aren't under pressure to work insane hours. Maybe they just aren't very good at this yet. If it's not ready, it's not ready.
I wonder if this will be the next Star Citizen, just without the huge intake of money from people giving them money, where they overpromise, under deliver and be in development for 15-20 years. By the time this game is 1.0 and officially released, it'll need a full engine update.
This just reminds me of how epic wildstar really was as one of the last of the true theme park mmos that ended up failing mostly because of mismanagement and pressure from the parent company.
Great video, if i can add some comfort: Its true that the servers have beens scuffed forever. However yesterday, Intrepid pushed a patch that smoothed the server out so much. This is the smoothest its ever beeen and after 8 hours of playing yestedsy, i only DC'd once. Hoping it stays strong for this weekend.
It seems people may have very unrealistic expectations for a game that just entered the Alpha 2 phase of development. At this stage, content and questing aren’t the primary focus; the goal is to test the core mechanics, server stability and scalability, gather player feedback, and build a stable foundation. Steven was very clear about what to expect from this phase, and what we're seeing aligns with what he said. The official launch is likely still about three years away, and that's perfectly reasonable given the level of polish we all want in the final product.
I made it into the recent spot testing. A lot of the basics are kind of a pain. Questing is confusing. If I go somewhere for a quest there are dense packs of mobs that I am not able to get through so I cannot complete the quest. I’m all for group play but if I can’t solo a few of the starter quests it’s pretty disheartening.
I hope they'll update the character movements before release. Looks pretty clunky and compare to the humanoid models they are walking a bit too fast how much they are moving on the environment. + having a darker shadow in a dark area without any extra light source is strange. 3:38
[I have to clarify this it not about Force: great video, very clear and accurate!] There is too much publicity or talk about this alpha TEST. It makes me see or feel like they should have kept the NDA. As a test, there will be plenty of limits (only some content), performance issues, etc. giving fools a bad impression (no matter how many times you repeat the words ALPHA / TEST). Hopefully I am wrong. And, anyway, if the actual released game in a few years is really good, gamers will figure it out...
@@matthewmammothswine4395 I really wanna like Albion and i do like a lot of aspects, but full loot pvp is just unnecessarily annoying. AoC's approach makes much more sense, you can actually go for gear progression long-term and it's not just a temporary piece of power that exists until your next death
@@Dangerous1939 it’s not annoying at all once you understand that your gear is just a consumable, and that your specs in armor/weapons are what your real gear is. You cannot lose silver (your main resource) and you cannot lose spec (essentially your gear progression). People just have a hard time grasping this because it’s not like most other MMOs.
I think they have working on a system to stream line making models, content, world building, etc all these years. They probably have already finished that part of it. Essentially made an assembly line of sorts. I think once they get the "online" part of it down (The purpose of Alpha 2) where there are next to no connection issues or lag issues (Not saying there won't be) worked out. I think after that, the game is going to be spitting out content like crazy.
This game had too large of an ambition for its budget. They promised more than they can make. All it takes is for a larger company to throw $100-200m at an MMORPG project to easily overshadow this game in just a couple of years. I'm not saying this game will 100% fail, but it wont succeed how they thought it would at the pace its being developed. Other games will definitely overshadow this by the time its released.
Plus if it's going to be a 100% PVP designed game it'll naturally do extremely bad it's just a poor sales decision. Look at mortal online there's hardly any people playing it.
Larger companies tend to play safe when it comes to innovations. These smaller companies are the risk takers and when the risk is rewarded, that's the only time these large companies start making it.
Larger companies don't want to make MMOs because it takes a ton of money to make and support, and it's a niche genre. There is a reason why the makers of Black Desert Online, Pearl Abyss' next title (Crimson Desert) isn't an MMO. There is a reason Nightingale decided to pivot from being an MMO to being a shared world survival game. There is a reason why the unseen but talked about Riot MMO has been "reset" and most likely will be cancelled. There is a reason Amazon has rebranded New World as an action RPG with its console launch.
Just an FYI, anyone walking into this expecting that Archeage will be a part of its style that's noticeable will likely be disappointed. Most people I think expected 65-70% Archeage 35-40% lineage...try more like 90% lineage 10% Archeage.
Good, L2 was years ahead of other MMOs, way better than what WoW was at that time in terms of social content. The clan and alliance mechanics, clan halls, castles, outposts, sieges, clan wars, etc... Though it was painfully grindy and atrociously unbalanced, I think a modernized version with these issues fixed would be awesome - at least that's my hope for AOC. Archeage was also a great idea at start, playing it in the beginning I felt really immersed in what was a true sandbox MMO, only to be ruined by shitty monetization and later by killing the gameplay. oh and PVP was pretty shit too where everyone just died in 1-2 sec.
I never played Lineage but if it has the social components from Lineage and Archeage with a modern, solid combat fluidity and proper class design, i am totally down for it.
Im the first person to make the joke that "the game will never come out". But tbf to the devs, they were very clear on their video and their website, that the first stage of alpha 2 will be VERY limited in the playable area and amount of content, with the phase 2 and 3 content updates introducing more and more. Expecting more than what they specifically outlined in the alpha is kinda weird.
You keep saying many more years but we also have a completely unfinished MMO that's live right now, Pax Dei. I'd expect that AoC may end up doing the same and go into actual Early Access by next year when they're ~25% complete.
@@Billy-bc8pk I only played Alpha 2 with a buddy and it was in terrible shape. My understanding is they made a fair bit of progress between Alpha 2 and Early access launch but I'm still skeptical.
Steven did make it very clear in there updates that alpha 2 was not about content and was purely about testing the game for bugs and issues. He stated to not participate if you are expecting any notable content to play
Yeah exactly, people have been hammering this whole "there's no content" BS like they expect 50% of the game to release for testing. I mean I get it. It's taking a while it's slow.. but you need to put the time in context with who is making the game and their ultimate goal. This isn't EA with 500 to 1000 working on it to release a shit, buggy, unfinished POS in 4 years. Context matters.
@@mdem5059 Context matters ? How about paying 120 dollars to get a key for a game that promises so much and yet after so many years delivers so little ? Whatever the context : a MMO is one of the most costly and lengthy game to develop. Game will not even be finished in 5 years and need to rely solely on backers to finance the devs. You don't pay a game. You finance devs to work. That's the context. And to be fair, I'd love the game to succeed. I don't have anything against AoC nor the devs or Steven.
@@mimmim13aiv I replied to the comment above me, which doesn't mention anything about the issue of paying for Alpha. I never said there aren't issues with the whole AoC topic, there are many, many many things that they could have done better. Paid Alpha testing being one of them. But without knowing what's behind the curtain, isn't a lot to add to that discussion.
I think people are mostly criticizing that it's in that state 8 years later. At this rate the game will take another decade to implement 50% of what they promised.
@@marcinsarniak to be fair, the Kickstarter itself was only put up, what, 7 and a half years ago? They had a tiny team back then compared to now, and they were still finding their feet. Probably doing a lot of missteps while being a new company. Again you need to have context in mind. You can't or at least shouldn't compare them to a EA who can pump out games in like 5 years (that are majorly unfinished at that). Not to say there aren't things you can't criticise but I think this is the weakest point.
Here's the thing with solo vs group. If you can't do very basic things, like leveling, very efficiently as a solo player, your game is going to have *HUGE* problems. I'm far from one of those people that wants the entire game to be soloable, but it's incredibly important that something so fundamental to the game, like leveling a character, can be done on a player's own time/pace.
its one of the main reasons I'm getting it. about time they make a much harder open world where you need friends.. to many mmo's treat us like brain dead idiots where nearly all of them aren't challenging at all unless you're on the 15th difficulty slider of the same dungeon you've ran 1000 times. harder the better make them dungeons and raids even more sweeter
@@tox_ph0b0s80 I played classic for a year straight and only ever leveled when my buddies were on, the rest of the time was for exploration or social time, talking to peeps in the city
It's not like you need a full group for everything. You and one other can get stuff done. EQ didn't have huge problems because you needed to work with others..
@@cheeemzy6651 Here's the problem though. What happens if say 3 weeks in all your buddies hop to another game but you really want to keep playing this one.
3k people was a lot for the current map size. Interestingly enough, the intended land mass is about 10~15 times bigger for launch but the player cap only 3x bigger. Just some food for thought 🙏
Oh dude, between Wildstar, Crowfall and Corepunk your opinion is totally justified. I was in that Crowfall alpha with you, we all saw the problems from such a far distance away. It was so, so avoidable - damned arrogance on the part of those devs. Sad to see Corepunk make the exact same mistakes 5 years on. I think we're a similar age and have been through all of this together. Fucking RIP dude. Remember Paragon? Christ. Why do these games even have playtests if they don't listen to feedback?
@Valithin Same, the first MMO with a REAL Action Target System even for Auto Attacks. I think the unconsistancy and the wrong marketing broke their neck a little. Also i think scifi isnt everybodys cup of tea. BUT theres a little hope, some people try to reingeniere the Game but it takes Time
@@sergeantyoshi656 there are two groups i know of working on getting WS back up and running, unfortunately that's still a ways off from completion. The issue with Wildstar is it had a bad launch. It was too "hardcore" for casual players, the paid sub in a time when mmo's were dying off a bit, server issues on launch, and unfortunately scifi just isn't as popular. I still think it has the most engaging gameplay, I'm playing WoW again, and it is just shutting off my brain to do content.
There is only one real concern for this game and its the fact that its still so many years away from fully releasing that by the time its fully out, there is a very high likelyhood that its going to be already outdated, both graphically and mechanically, if they can ever deliver all their outlandish gameplay promises to begin with. The vast majority of the players are simply skeptical of the final quality of the game and the promises it gave, and they look at this game the same way they look at Star Citizen.
I don't see Unreal Engine 5 games being outdated in the next 7 years. UE5 has all be about introducing new graphical tech (nanite, lumen, proc gen) and that tech will continue to see updates throughout UE5's lifetime. Meanwhile UE6 will be about expanding the engine's multiplayer support capabilities. As for outdated mechanically... it's an MMO. MMOs are the retro genre of video games. People who play them want to be remain mechanically the same.
oh fuck no! the past 5 years we havent had any major graphical breaktroughs, the only ones we had are UE5! ffs gaming companies nowadays just make DEI slob so dont you worry, other then maybe crisis 4 theres not gonna be anything new and groundbreaking in the next 5 - 10 years atleast! Hell id argue that were about to hit a wall in therms of graphics.
By the time aoc actually releases the main audience is gonna be upper 30s lower 40s with kids and establish careers. Was excited when I first heard about it, but accepting now that I won't be able to play.
People really underestimate how difficult and expensive it is to make big games right now. It already takes 3-6 years for an established studio with a lot of technical background to make a game. It's only logical that a huge MMO will take much longer to develop. And that doesn't make any developer dishonest or malicious, it's just the reality. It's impossible to do these things in less time.
All evidence is it's impossible to do it at all. Yet, 25 years ago, a miniscule team had created Everquest and like 6 expansions in the same amount of time.
@@666Slix that's not the point he was talking about. During those time they had just as much limitations. hell somethings back then we're considered even impossible due to file size.
@@jjstraka1982 MMOs also had zero expectations in those days as they were a brand new market. It turns out when you have higher expectation it costs more money, manpower and resources than it used to
They have 2x third party testing houses and an internal team of QA. The reason they allow people to buy into Alpha is the transparent development. If they opened it to everyone their server costs would bleed them and they'd need a larger staff to support the servers.
Rumor is that they basically restarted development on the game. I would not say that Alpha 2 having less content than Alpha One is not going to be used as evidence against them.
@@RAWsassin it's alright, I'm just tired of Korean MMO gearing. As an archeage player I was also disappointed by the lack of ocean stuff. I am glad to see a more pvp focused game get attention though.
@@Twilight5007 man I feel like archeage was really next level for its time, so much new content for the genre and so much PvP at the beginning, too bad they messed up the game so soon :(
They're getting a ton of money from folks without having to release the game and the game is nowhere near to be ready to be released?! Say it ain't so!
The servers are definitely improving and not because of less players , with the mass amount I saw today they were still pretty bad but a lot better than August, like quite noticeably a lot better than August
Nothing wrong with trying to innovate their respective genre instead of relying on "AAAA" game devs and publishers so long as their is a community to support it.
They'd have to be selling unreleased mounts at $2K a pop while spending millions on actors like Mark Hamill, Gillian Anderson, and Henry Cavill to talk in their single player game for that to be true.
I have to say that I liked my game experience and so I am fully satisfied. Critiquing things that are expected in an Alpha makes me actually wonder if this can be actually taken as a negatiive point as Alpha is exactly there for this. I have no issue with the not overwhelming amount of content as you can learn the mechanics existing better with not 20 systems at the very beginning. Soloing was kinda great so far for me and due to the large amount of players you temporarly group up with randoms when required or when it is helpful. You totally can do it unless you want to become the best at server.
"Bad news for AoC?" Now is the time to commit meaningful feedback to help create the MMO you're looking for. It's only bad if you don't do anything about it. Also it never ceases to amaze me how many people will play an ALPHA build of a game and go "Where is the game?". Do you people even know what an alpha build is? Evidently not. These are not the kinds of people you want testing your game. They will be focused on the wrong things. (Also Steven said that Alpha 2 will be updated over time with additional content. What players are playing right now isn't even the entire package.)
So let me get this straight. This game started development in 2015. The industry standard for a mmorpg is 7 years. It's already been 9 years, and you're shocked that people reacted this badly to a BAD GAME? The animations look wack, it doesn't have half the things it promised it would, nothing about this game is good. Sure, it's just Alpha. But in the time it took them to release this crap, other games made fully polished games and launched them. Throne and Liberty for example (started development in 2017 and was out in KR by 2023). Why do you find it weird that people who paid money for this game's development get mad over the fact that their money got pretty much stolen? And on top of that they have to pay MORE to get access to the 1/4 of a game they paid for in the beginning? If people were as stupid as yall and accepted crap just because "u-uwu it's just an alpha don't be mean guys" we'd have way shittier games. People getting angry and giving some well deserved backlash helps the game, and ultimately YOU, more than your "uwu let's be kind and understand" attitude. These people don't care about you, they care about your wallet, and if they notice you're not happy with what they're doing and won't pay them more, they're gonna change shit.
@@miuletzmitzu6641 1) No, the industry standard is as long as it takes to get the game to a shippable state. 2) Im not shocked at anything but the idiocy of players who don't know what certain development phases are when they're the ones being exposed to it. 3) Pointing out how other games have releases in this time has literally no weight on anything. What other MMOs have released at the scale that AoC is aimed to operate at? What MMOs have released with the same feature sets and tech? The fact that you're saying this at all tells me you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You literally cannot compare a half-baked mobile port MMO that is 90% preused assets to a game that.. isn't that. You're an idiot. 4) What "backlash"? The largest complaints were about bugs and lack of content... In an alpha build. Not features. Again, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You went off on me as if I'm sitting here defending Intrepid, but not a single thing I said defends them. Lmao. You need some critical thinking skills, broski. Go back to playing your garbage Korean P2W MMOs that they churn out every two years.
@@ufukakkoyun6969 How many people were working on the game in the first 4 years of its development you think? It doesn't make sense to say "game is under development for 8 years" when the first few years there were barely 20 people on it.
When I backed this on KS in 2019 it said it would be playable in 2020. It's now 2024 and it's just entering the 'weekend test phase'. It's going to be a crazy long delivery timeline.
In fear of getting another run of the mill theme park MMO. I'm glad that they are charging to test the game. This is the way it HAS to be done to avoid another brain dead MMO. The reason they went this route is because the only people that are willing pay to help test the game are people who actually care about the development of the game. I wouldn't want 10k people who want another WoW clone to be testing or giving their feedback based on something that this game isn't trying to be. Not trying to be rude, just offering another perspective.
it sounds like a lot of money in a chunk, but the sub fee is going to be $15/ month so if you take into account that $120 lets you play the game through all testing phases, including beta and gives you a month of play time after 1.0 release, its actually really cheap. of course you could make the point that the sub fee is for a completed game, and alpha doesn't have the same value, but you still get to try all the systems and give feedback so there's value there. if it's not worth it to you, i don't think anyone will twist your arm, but i thought i'd give another perspective on the cost.
Thanks for the mention brother 💪 We're currently stress testing servers and surprisingly it's been extremely smooth. ALL A2 testers have been invited to fully stress test today 👀
@@DBTHEPLUG WoW classic development took 4 years. And for that time, everything about the game was revolutionary. There's mmos out there, with better resources and software, that don't even come close to the systems and mechanics classic wow has. Also, Throne and Liberty didn't take 13 years of development to take. But it doesn't surprise me that AoC bootlickers spread misinformation like that. Throne and Liberty was first constructed as a Lineage sequel in 2011, a way different game that's more similar to diablo than what it is now. The company wasn't satisfied with it and scratched the whole idea, then came back to it in 2017 and started FROM THE GROUND UP with Project TL. The official start of the development was in 2017, which is 7 years ago. It took 6 years to release in KR, and 7 for the West. AoC has been in development for how many years again? TL isn't the best, but it's pretty decent. It looks good at least, and has some interesting mechanics. AoC legit is an ESO clone, the animations look wack, and besides empty promises with not much to show for it the game got what exactly going for it? Ambition doesn't make a game good. Results do. Throne and Liberty started development around the same time as AoC. Yet one is a fully finished and polished game, that looks amazing, plays good, and has never seen before systems in a mmorpg. And the other has animations that made you think you're watching ESO get ported into Roblox by a 15 year old kid.
@miuletzmitzu6641 When Googling how long the development of Throne and Liberty took, that's the first result that shows up. Go tell Google they're showing the wrong results instead of sending me an essay.
Intrepid / Steven really should just come out with an honest take on the transitional period between A1, Apoc and A2. Even if it is quite literally a "We gained a lot of engineering and back-end experience from A1 and Apoc tests but ultimately, based on feedback and results, we did go back and rebuild from the ground up for A2." People keep saying that it's been 8 years of development as though that's 8 years of actual production. It clearly isn't, there has been a reset of some sorts where they had gone from planning and pre-production to production and then backtracked into planning and ditched the production builds.
Yeah i think they struggle a lot with the architectural groundwork. We can only hope that their current plan works out, at least they seem to be very optimistic about it. IF they figured it out and the next 2-3 years are gonna be focused on producing actual content (worldbuilding, classes, systems), a lot of progress is possible. Time will tell
The appeal to solo play for me is that I can play at my own pace, do my own thing and ultimately relax. I wonder if the increase for this demand is coming from original MMO players getting older and not having the time for raids and such like we used to.
Thats just the core of MMORPG games, its literally a time sink for people who have no life. Casually playing MMORPG will just make you fall so behind, you might as well quit because catching up just takes way too much time to crunch. To be honest, MMORPG are just dead, its trying to stay on life support for these Early Access games but in reality, people don't have a lot of time anymore to sink into playing a game 4-10 hrs a day every week. Sure most older MMORPGs back then were mainly played by older people who have a lot of money from their jobs or have jobs that allowed them to stay home more which allows them to play MMORPGs all day long basically. That ain't really can be done anymore in modern times where people are more worried trying to get a job than to stay at home playing MMORPG for 5+ hrs everyday.
I can attest to that. I quit T&L because I couldn't devote as much time to guild activities (which is the entire end game) due to my job. I kinda miss playing GW2 as well because of this
I remember when it was first kickstarted, I said to myself “this game looks so fun I can’t wait, sucks that it’s going to be another five years till I can play it” 7 years after I said that and it’s barely a game
this game really does look like it came out in 2005 and when a time where good MMOs are basically dead, when this games does come out by 2050 i don't even know if the genre will be a thing anymore.
When you say 2005 what are you talking about? Do you mean graphically? The PS3 came out in 2006? I've never seen a PS2 game that looked like unreal engine 5. If so link me the video.
@@williamwayne4043 You realize PC games existed back in 2005, right? this isn't about ps2, i don't know why you brought that up, or maybe you're console only. but obviously yes, the game looks severely dated.
For testing, they are wise to not have a large chunk active at the moment. Its easier to trace bugs and manage their core/foundational services in a smaller area. I'm guessing that they will roll out more as they are happy with performance at load.
The alarm bells should be ringing. If you are buying in at this point, hopefully you are loaded with cash and just want to support their attempt. (or else make income from making content about the games/video-games in general & so it's basically a business expense)
@@BygoneUser1 you have to be loaded with crash to spent 100$ for minimum 3 years of content + game time at release? some people dont live from pay check to pay check.
Give Pantheon a 2nd look. Its going into Early Access in Dec. I think its only $50 for full 24/7 access till they launch in a few years. 6 races, 10 classes and huge world growing quickly. They have been super busy over there.
@@rory7466 Thats an opinion formeed befoe the new art was really implemented. The new human model was a placeholder for example. Its been revised now. Everthing that's been rolling out has been moving in a great direction. Dark grimy. Lots of character. But really the best part about it that it WORKS haha. Several hundred players in one zone. Almost no lag or server issues. Very solid foundation. Very responsive. AoC had a hard time with 100 people
@@potsandjacks I was talking about the new art direction, as a tiny team they should have gone for a minimal low poly style, now they've started adding high detail 'realistic' models they've completely painted themselves into a corner because that stuff obviously takes way longer to make and has a big impact on performance the more of it you add to the game, they're completely confused in their art direction and it's gonna bite them in the ass further down the line
@@rory7466 That’s not what they’re doing at all. And also why I encourage people to take a second look at it because most people have a outdated opinion and are just not informed
I've been following this game's development for several years, and I know that it is at least 2 years away from full release. I am still very excited to see this come to full release. However, I am 60 years old and would like to play it while I still have the physical and mental abilities to do so. As a result, I decided to buy into the Alpha 2 testing, knowing it will be buggy as heck. Hopefully it comes to full release before I'm 6ft under.
Man your comment cuts deep. I'm 42 and been playing MMOs since DAoC at 17. One day soon I'll be in your shoes, hoping that my aging hands can hold out a little longer for the next big drop. My hat goes off to you, friend. Here's to hoping we meet in battle for decades to come!
Dick Garriot’s kickstarter “Shroud of the Avatar” went this same way. 10 years later we have 1 & 3/4 chapters to play of the promised 5 chapters. This is not a good Omen. Maybe we’ll get the full game (AoC) around the same time Star Citizen hits final release. Seems like Light No Fire is my last hope. Fingers still crossed for AoC, I’ve been looking forward to it for a long time.
Unless Light No Fire has vastly improved combat over No Man's Sky, it's just going to be a very visually impressive upgrade with unimpressive mechanics. AoC and SC should take all the time they need, because it's not like they have any competition whatsoever.
@@jjstraka1982 wasnt free for those of us foolish enough to back the game in 2014 for hundreds, in some cases tens of thousands of dollars. When Portalarium went tits up, so did the game. Prior to the devs walking away on the backers the game was a subscription model.
Your descriptions are very accurate Force. Well done. It is indeed meant as an alliance versus alliance (many guilds) game, mixing PvPvE. The PvP will have some moderation, but it is not designed to be fully safe PvE playable (it is not like New World).
- Hopes for a new MMO
- Plays a new MMO
- Gets disapointed on new MMO
- Repeat
Every MMO fan these days.
Are the game companies evil or are we just stupid? Yes.
-Goes back to MMO they have been playing all their life THEN -Repeat lol
@@dupre7416yes
I still miss wildstar
Me and the boys playing AOC at the retirement home
Not star citizen? Lmao
@@regalgiant1597 It's a contest now which will release into 1.0 first.
Same for me and Pantheon...😂
So this is the SC of Fantasy games
Perfect timing for it to launch. We will all be retired and have all the time in the world to grind
It's crazy that I was 29 when I first heard of this game, I'm 34 now and I'll be 40 when it's released.
I think you mean 80, when you're 80 the game will finally come out lmao
40? That’s enthusiastic
It takes about 5-7 years to make an mmo. The pandemic slowed it down and they also switched to unreal engine so it show move faster they said. It could be worse. You could be waiting for Star Citizen to finish. You were 23 then lol.
@@DJezdic Enthusiastic? I think you mean optimistic 😆
And they have fomoed and scammed enough money to keep going for another 10 years with this bs
GDaaS = Game Development as a Service : They cut a check while you pay them to develop a game, if the game fails, they already got paid. That is how you get a 12+ years game development.
please stop pulling numbers out of ur a$$. posting with 0 research is just attention seeking.
"GDaaS" made me chuckle 🤭
Scam citizen for exemple
Don't buy it then
@@jonsnow3176 Most won’t.
Thanks for mentioning my video in the description Force. Fair and great summary on everything AOC. Look forward to seeing your thoughts after getting your hands on it too
Damn it Steven… shouldn’t you be working
Agreed. It's unfair that other AOC creators can take a crap in their hands and put it online and get featured. And you put craftsmanship in and are ignored.
I could not agree with Nyce more, completely based on the negative points.
Thanks for the video Force!!
Nyce is a goat. Make sure you guys give him a follow.
@@zsavior4535 What are you on about? Nyce is literally thanking Force to featuring his content here... how is that being ignored??
I didn't hear any "bad news", I heard "obvious news." But most gamers are oblivious to the obvious.
Man, don’t even get me started on that
Been warning people this game will fail without some major changes and pretty much got told “fuck off, you filthy casual. Go back to retail WoW lol”
@@dragonriderabens9761 You missed the point mate... you're judging an alpha. It's obvious many things will change.
Appreciate the link drop in the description! Love the content!!
Great content dude, thanks for your detailed videos on the game! Helped a ton.
Ricky!
RIP Crowfall...
I can hear Narc crying in the corner..
Narc is great. FB & R
Narciverse on Twitch
Ooof he fell off
@@regalgiant1597he’s busy eating pizza and being fat.
I can hear him cope 😂
He's got plenty of cope-a-cola to carry him to official launch.
I normally play solo but while I was playing over the weekend, I received invites many times which was surprising to me to fight mobs. it was fun. Don't forget this is alpha and the dev is getting feedback and bug reports constantly from players that are playing now. Looking forward to playing every weekend.
Hoping the follow up video will be "Good News For Ashes of Creation", stay tuned lol
🤣
Don't hold your breath
Yuck group focused games tend to crash hard.
Man if Thor(Pirate Software) got an interview with Steven we could get some extremely valuable information. He can ask real questions the community NEEDS. I watched NYCE's video and some others but they're just such elementary player questions(I don't mean this as an insult, maybe there is a better way of phrasing it). Not to crap on them because they have value but many, many, many of these types of questions have been absolutely beat to death. The answers to those questions are ambiguous and intent driven, opposed to deep developmental and technical which their is a hunger for albeit I don't think many gamers realize that that's what they're hungry for.
TLDR; Thor(Pirate Software) would be far more qualified to interview Steven. I think his questions would give the community something they really want but don't quite get from the current popular names/interviewers.
I'm not the best writer so I hope I articulated my thoughts well enough. I don't want to add fruitless negativity to the space. I have been a long time follower of NYCE too I hope I didn't offend you brother. I like many of you want to see this project succeed. I understand they are pioneering in their own way and this puts us and them in unfamiliar territory that doesn't match previous boxes we have to put it in. Overall I'm very optimistic even given the timeline. I think the change of game engine was a big hurtle and will remain a hurtle for the foreseeable future but completely necessary.
@@ForceGamingYT it's not looking good bruv, it's not looking good.
7 days to die came to STEAM in 2013 with Alpha 5 (I think) and went to Alpha 21 until this year, releasing 1.0 in July 2024...still not complete :)
Let's see if AoC will break that record :)
if it took 7 years to get 20 percent what are we looking at 30+ years for completion?
its not because they made as test 20% that they arn't working on the rest. some bugs will be linked to the engine and help them a ton for the rest of the game.
We all be dead by that time don't worry
No beacuse once one zone is completed, they can do copy paste. They are building the base game now, adding stuff takes less time.
people thinking that 20% released to the public means there is 0 progress on all the rest of the content, bravo XDDD
Yeah, people said the same thing about BG3 when it was in EA "OMG ONLY ACT 1 IS OUT!!! IT'S GONNA TAKE AGES" like holy shit, calm down buddy, they won't show you the entire game.
Crazy I was in Landmark alpha/beta with you and here we are 10 years later in Ashes. Still going strong Force!
Still sad we never got to see EverQuest Next
I had happily ejected that shitshow from my mind, now it's back. Well, at least we got...got...Oh! A flag in EQ2!
@@ForceGamingYT The way Daybreak manages EQ/EQ2, we're probably better off without it. Both games are now just P2W MTX treadmills through and through.
Tbf, soe started the downfall, daybreak just continued it.
EQ next was the hardest game cancellation to swallow, still hurts man.
Appreciate the shout out Force! I am a channel that has devoted my entire channel predominantly to Ashes of Creation, but I will always look at the game in an objective manner. I love the concept of the game, and I want it to succeed. Part of that is providing criticism when it's warranted.
What is your channel? Love to check it out
A lot of these Kickstarters wildly underestimate the cost of production and wildly overestimate their resources and timelines. As nice of a tale the whole staying independent is, when you have to sell 120$ keys and cosmetics years ahead of release it’s probably a sign that the funding is inadequate. Also the notion that all investors are evil and corrupt is a bit far fetched and likely propagated by leveraged buyouts. It’s a bit of a disservice to choose to take that much from supporters of the game instead of giving up a non-controlling amount of equity to secure proper funding (that’s what term sheets and contracts are for).
The game likely suffers from feature creep as well, which probably makes development less focused resulting in even more of a drain on resources and time.
For an alpha where the developers have warned about the lack of content, I'm not concerned yet. They've been pretty up front about it.
1:40 "first crowd funded MMO to no flop"... Wow, guess they completely forgot about Albion
$120 for an unfinished MMO without a wide release? Alright.
They are an independant developer, they need to find ways to bring in revenue. If people are willing to pay for it, and help it get developed, there's nothing wrong with that.
@@BattleBorn13 Get a bank loan, like everyone else?
@Legnica148 why when people are willing to pay?
@djpharaohz yes that's the issue in the end... there are indeed retards giving free money to a complete scam. So yeah, can't blame them.
@@BattleBorn13 its a scam is what it is
People think that everything in the game that was on UE4 just got ported over but that jump required basically everything to be remade for tools and such, but UE5 allows them to do more and will make future engine upgrades much easier. Their are testing features in waves adding different builds vs adding everything they have so they can figure out what each new thing breaks
Don't worry guys, it will launch about the same time as Star Citizen
lmao, 2 biggest scams in gaming history! how do people not see this??
@@alejandronunez7650 the sc team actually created their own engine and new server meshing tech as well as other new tech not available to use in their team so there's valid reason for its long development.
@@alejandronunez7650 And Gary Oldman, Gillian Anderson, Mark Strong, Mark Hamill, John Rhys-Davies, Andy Serkis, Liam Cunningham and Henry Cavill are all in on it! Get out of here.
The "SC is a scam" train retired years ago, don't try to board it like these sad little people who need to shit on stuff for a tiny sense of validation.
It will still release before Camelot Unchained.
@@fuethao8633I kind of chuckle with the server meshing because they relabeled technology that was already created. However it's a great PR stunt.
Development progress has been depressingly slow but if it's not ready, it's not ready. Maybe there isn't enough staff. Maybe they have a healthy work-life balance and aren't under pressure to work insane hours. Maybe they just aren't very good at this yet. If it's not ready, it's not ready.
The running looks like string puppets lol
that's why NDA is a thing, tomorrow you'll see way better footage
@@pogo6543211111111 hopefully.
@@pogo6543211111111 No you wont lol
@@pogo6543211111111 wtf are you talking about 😂 please seek help delusional cultist
@@thirtysilver33 an other internet expert.
I wonder if this will be the next Star Citizen, just without the huge intake of money from people giving them money, where they overpromise, under deliver and be in development for 15-20 years.
By the time this game is 1.0 and officially released, it'll need a full engine update.
"I will still might do go off on my own section and do my solo thing" - Force Gaming 2024 @ 7:45
This is truly a heroic quote.
Asking for $120 to test their game that might never even be released is robbery
not surprising since steven sharif made his money by scamming cancer patients
This is a good overview talking about the pros and cons here. Well said and appreciate the tag in the description
This just reminds me of how epic wildstar really was as one of the last of the true theme park mmos that ended up failing mostly because of mismanagement and pressure from the parent company.
Bro ive been following this games development since i was in puberty by the time this is fully released....ima have kids man 😂
Yea and they will be in puberty as well. 😂
Nah, yo kids will have kids
You are not alone….
Your grandkids will bring you flowers and a copy of ashes to your grave.
It looks decent. If it manages to make a profit, I can see it continued to be developed for years. I hope it succeeds.
3 - 4 years? Most of us are gonna be damn near 40 by then.
Welcome brother, there are many 30-40+ year olds in this community. It is all welcoming.😅
MMORPGS are predominately played by 40-60 year old men lmao its a very niche market that mostly retired people have time to play tbh.
Oh yea? Well your mom was 40 when I met her!!!
@@ggNotSuree wtf ?
53
Great video, if i can add some comfort:
Its true that the servers have beens scuffed forever. However yesterday, Intrepid pushed a patch that smoothed the server out so much. This is the smoothest its ever beeen and after 8 hours of playing yestedsy, i only DC'd once.
Hoping it stays strong for this weekend.
Just 8 more years from now...
It seems people may have very unrealistic expectations for a game that just entered the Alpha 2 phase of development. At this stage, content and questing aren’t the primary focus; the goal is to test the core mechanics, server stability and scalability, gather player feedback, and build a stable foundation. Steven was very clear about what to expect from this phase, and what we're seeing aligns with what he said. The official launch is likely still about three years away, and that's perfectly reasonable given the level of polish we all want in the final product.
Hes also a proven liar and scammer.
@@gathererofmagic5350 yep he scammed cancer patients, dude has zero morals.
Alpha 9 is going to be crazy!
It's gonna cost $499.99
🤣🤣🤣
And it’s right around the corner! Only 15 years!!
Alpha 9 from power rangers went crazy because of Ivan Ooze
I'm looking forward to alpha 325...🙃
I made it into the recent spot testing. A lot of the basics are kind of a pain. Questing is confusing. If I go somewhere for a quest there are dense packs of mobs that I am not able to get through so I cannot complete the quest. I’m all for group play but if I can’t solo a few of the starter quests it’s pretty disheartening.
I hope they'll update the character movements before release. Looks pretty clunky and compare to the humanoid models they are walking a bit too fast how much they are moving on the environment.
+ having a darker shadow in a dark area without any extra light source is strange. 3:38
[I have to clarify this it not about Force: great video, very clear and accurate!] There is too much publicity or talk about this alpha TEST. It makes me see or feel like they should have kept the NDA. As a test, there will be plenty of limits (only some content), performance issues, etc. giving fools a bad impression (no matter how many times you repeat the words ALPHA / TEST). Hopefully I am wrong. And, anyway, if the actual released game in a few years is really good, gamers will figure it out...
I might check it out when its close to releasing in 2030, and Albion Online exists.
Albion not that fun. This will be very different (if it ever comes out lmao)
@@ZiggyvuAlbion is a lot of fun once you get over the fear of dying.
@@ZiggyvuAlbion is a lot more fun if you leave the yellow zones
@@matthewmammothswine4395 I really wanna like Albion and i do like a lot of aspects, but full loot pvp is just unnecessarily annoying. AoC's approach makes much more sense, you can actually go for gear progression long-term and it's not just a temporary piece of power that exists until your next death
@@Dangerous1939 it’s not annoying at all once you understand that your gear is just a consumable, and that your specs in armor/weapons are what your real gear is. You cannot lose silver (your main resource) and you cannot lose spec (essentially your gear progression). People just have a hard time grasping this because it’s not like most other MMOs.
I think they have working on a system to stream line making models, content, world building, etc all these years. They probably have already finished that part of it. Essentially made an assembly line of sorts. I think once they get the "online" part of it down (The purpose of Alpha 2) where there are next to no connection issues or lag issues (Not saying there won't be) worked out. I think after that, the game is going to be spitting out content like crazy.
This game had too large of an ambition for its budget. They promised more than they can make. All it takes is for a larger company to throw $100-200m at an MMORPG project to easily overshadow this game in just a couple of years. I'm not saying this game will 100% fail, but it wont succeed how they thought it would at the pace its being developed. Other games will definitely overshadow this by the time its released.
Plus if it's going to be a 100% PVP designed game it'll naturally do extremely bad it's just a poor sales decision. Look at mortal online there's hardly any people playing it.
Just like Amazon studios 😁 ?
Larger companies tend to play safe when it comes to innovations. These smaller companies are the risk takers and when the risk is rewarded, that's the only time these large companies start making it.
It's already suceeded as an investment vehicle, and that's all that really matters at the end of the day 😄
Larger companies don't want to make MMOs because it takes a ton of money to make and support, and it's a niche genre. There is a reason why the makers of Black Desert Online, Pearl Abyss' next title (Crimson Desert) isn't an MMO. There is a reason Nightingale decided to pivot from being an MMO to being a shared world survival game. There is a reason why the unseen but talked about Riot MMO has been "reset" and most likely will be cancelled. There is a reason Amazon has rebranded New World as an action RPG with its console launch.
The good thing about Ashes is that, when it finally launches, it can sell itself as a nostalic retro-style MMO.
Just an FYI, anyone walking into this expecting that Archeage will be a part of its style that's noticeable will likely be disappointed. Most people I think expected 65-70% Archeage 35-40% lineage...try more like 90% lineage 10% Archeage.
So will it feel old n clunky then
@@Monkeyswheelchair it doesn't feel great right now tbh....at least ranger doesn't.
Good, L2 was years ahead of other MMOs, way better than what WoW was at that time in terms of social content.
The clan and alliance mechanics, clan halls, castles, outposts, sieges, clan wars, etc... Though it was painfully grindy and atrociously unbalanced, I think a modernized version with these issues fixed would be awesome - at least that's my hope for AOC.
Archeage was also a great idea at start, playing it in the beginning I felt really immersed in what was a true sandbox MMO, only to be ruined by shitty monetization and later by killing the gameplay. oh and PVP was pretty shit too where everyone just died in 1-2 sec.
I never played Lineage but if it has the social components from Lineage and Archeage with a modern, solid combat fluidity and proper class design, i am totally down for it.
Im the first person to make the joke that "the game will never come out". But tbf to the devs, they were very clear on their video and their website, that the first stage of alpha 2 will be VERY limited in the playable area and amount of content, with the phase 2 and 3 content updates introducing more and more. Expecting more than what they specifically outlined in the alpha is kinda weird.
You keep saying many more years but we also have a completely unfinished MMO that's live right now, Pax Dei. I'd expect that AoC may end up doing the same and go into actual Early Access by next year when they're ~25% complete.
Is Pax Dei any good?
@@Billy-bc8pk I only played Alpha 2 with a buddy and it was in terrible shape. My understanding is they made a fair bit of progress between Alpha 2 and Early access launch but I'm still skeptical.
Steven did make it very clear in there updates that alpha 2 was not about content and was purely about testing the game for bugs and issues. He stated to not participate if you are expecting any notable content to play
Yeah exactly, people have been hammering this whole "there's no content" BS like they expect 50% of the game to release for testing.
I mean I get it. It's taking a while it's slow.. but you need to put the time in context with who is making the game and their ultimate goal.
This isn't EA with 500 to 1000 working on it to release a shit, buggy, unfinished POS in 4 years.
Context matters.
@@mdem5059 Context matters ? How about paying 120 dollars to get a key for a game that promises so much and yet after so many years delivers so little ? Whatever the context : a MMO is one of the most costly and lengthy game to develop. Game will not even be finished in 5 years and need to rely solely on backers to finance the devs. You don't pay a game. You finance devs to work.
That's the context.
And to be fair, I'd love the game to succeed. I don't have anything against AoC nor the devs or Steven.
@@mimmim13aiv I replied to the comment above me, which doesn't mention anything about the issue of paying for Alpha.
I never said there aren't issues with the whole AoC topic, there are many, many many things that they could have done better. Paid Alpha testing being one of them.
But without knowing what's behind the curtain, isn't a lot to add to that discussion.
I think people are mostly criticizing that it's in that state 8 years later. At this rate the game will take another decade to implement 50% of what they promised.
@@marcinsarniak to be fair, the Kickstarter itself was only put up, what, 7 and a half years ago?
They had a tiny team back then compared to now, and they were still finding their feet. Probably doing a lot of missteps while being a new company.
Again you need to have context in mind. You can't or at least shouldn't compare them to a EA who can pump out games in like 5 years (that are majorly unfinished at that).
Not to say there aren't things you can't criticise but I think this is the weakest point.
Here's the thing with solo vs group.
If you can't do very basic things, like leveling, very efficiently as a solo player, your game is going to have *HUGE* problems.
I'm far from one of those people that wants the entire game to be soloable, but it's incredibly important that something so fundamental to the game, like leveling a character, can be done on a player's own time/pace.
its one of the main reasons I'm getting it. about time they make a much harder open world where you need friends.. to many mmo's treat us like brain dead idiots where nearly all of them aren't challenging at all unless you're on the 15th difficulty slider of the same dungeon you've ran 1000 times. harder the better make them dungeons and raids even more sweeter
@@tox_ph0b0s80 I played classic for a year straight and only ever leveled when my buddies were on, the rest of the time was for exploration or social time, talking to peeps in the city
@@cheeemzy6651 yeah that me too. I'm tired of all the solo mmos. I miss the old days when grouping was a thing.
It's not like you need a full group for everything. You and one other can get stuff done. EQ didn't have huge problems because you needed to work with others..
@@cheeemzy6651 Here's the problem though. What happens if say 3 weeks in all your buddies hop to another game but you really want to keep playing this one.
3k people was a lot for the current map size. Interestingly enough, the intended land mass is about 10~15 times bigger for launch but the player cap only 3x bigger. Just some food for thought 🙏
This game will not be fully realized until 2029. And I’m being for real. And that’s at the earliest.
After i see the character walking and runing im out that tells me everything
Oh dude, between Wildstar, Crowfall and Corepunk your opinion is totally justified.
I was in that Crowfall alpha with you, we all saw the problems from such a far distance away. It was so, so avoidable - damned arrogance on the part of those devs. Sad to see Corepunk make the exact same mistakes 5 years on.
I think we're a similar age and have been through all of this together. Fucking RIP dude. Remember Paragon? Christ. Why do these games even have playtests if they don't listen to feedback?
Crowfall broke my heart yo...
Don't forget Camelot Unchained, City of Titans.
I loved wildstar, I wish we could get a re-release
@Valithin Same, the first MMO with a REAL Action Target System even for Auto Attacks. I think the unconsistancy and the wrong marketing broke their neck a little. Also i think scifi isnt everybodys cup of tea. BUT theres a little hope, some people try to reingeniere the Game but it takes Time
@@sergeantyoshi656 there are two groups i know of working on getting WS back up and running, unfortunately that's still a ways off from completion.
The issue with Wildstar is it had a bad launch. It was too "hardcore" for casual players, the paid sub in a time when mmo's were dying off a bit, server issues on launch, and unfortunately scifi just isn't as popular. I still think it has the most engaging gameplay, I'm playing WoW again, and it is just shutting off my brain to do content.
Thanks for the Wayfinder video!
it's a Phantasy Star Online fever dream and I cant put it down, so damn good :D
I wonder if GW3 will be released before this game.
I will check it out when it comes out.
There is only one real concern for this game and its the fact that its still so many years away from fully releasing that by the time its fully out, there is a very high likelyhood that its going to be already outdated, both graphically and mechanically, if they can ever deliver all their outlandish gameplay promises to begin with. The vast majority of the players are simply skeptical of the final quality of the game and the promises it gave, and they look at this game the same way they look at Star Citizen.
Except Star Citizen made good progress considering its the single most ambitious game EVER. Nobody with half a brain looks at Star Citizen badly
I don't see Unreal Engine 5 games being outdated in the next 7 years. UE5 has all be about introducing new graphical tech (nanite, lumen, proc gen) and that tech will continue to see updates throughout UE5's lifetime. Meanwhile UE6 will be about expanding the engine's multiplayer support capabilities.
As for outdated mechanically... it's an MMO. MMOs are the retro genre of video games. People who play them want to be remain mechanically the same.
oh fuck no! the past 5 years we havent had any major graphical breaktroughs, the only ones we had are UE5! ffs gaming companies nowadays just make DEI slob so dont you worry, other then maybe crisis 4 theres not gonna be anything new and groundbreaking in the next 5 - 10 years atleast!
Hell id argue that were about to hit a wall in therms of graphics.
@@puddingsimon2626 threw dei in there for no reason, enjoy your bigotry.
@@Athasin you mean Stutter Engine 5?
By the time aoc actually releases the main audience is gonna be upper 30s lower 40s with kids and establish careers. Was excited when I first heard about it, but accepting now that I won't be able to play.
People really underestimate how difficult and expensive it is to make big games right now. It already takes 3-6 years for an established studio with a lot of technical background to make a game. It's only logical that a huge MMO will take much longer to develop. And that doesn't make any developer dishonest or malicious, it's just the reality. It's impossible to do these things in less time.
All evidence is it's impossible to do it at all. Yet, 25 years ago, a miniscule team had created Everquest and like 6 expansions in the same amount of time.
@@jjstraka1982but where is now the EQ in trash GG
@@666Slix that's not the point he was talking about. During those time they had just as much limitations. hell somethings back then we're considered even impossible due to file size.
@@jjstraka1982 MMOs also had zero expectations in those days as they were a brand new market. It turns out when you have higher expectation it costs more money, manpower and resources than it used to
I've seen roblox open world mmos be completed in far less time.
Still "hyped" but yeah man...gotta move on to like my professional development, retirement goals, etc...while I wait for this thing :D
It is 2035, we have flying cars and the Mars has its first human settlements, and Ashes of Creation is getting ready for Alpha Phase 3
They have 2x third party testing houses and an internal team of QA. The reason they allow people to buy into Alpha is the transparent development. If they opened it to everyone their server costs would bleed them and they'd need a larger staff to support the servers.
BS i know dudes that host private Game servers in their basement for thousands of people all by themselves.
Wonder if my child will get a refund for backing this on Kickstarter if I die of old age before it releases.
As a fellow Crowfall hopeful, I feel the same. It was the ONE game I allowed myself to get hyped about and Kickstarted the shit out of. Alas.
grifting w the title, bugs are to be expected, the only real concern is server stability
looking forward for this in 2030.
Rumor is that they basically restarted development on the game. I would not say that Alpha 2 having less content than Alpha One is not going to be used as evidence against them.
When the riot MMO comes out before ashes does
When the zoomer doesn't even realize he can only talk in meme syntax
@@zazikikomo7796 Who hurt you so badly that a joke about an mmo causes you to attack people?
and its gonna fail. idk why look for new mmorpg now when throne and liberty is literally amazing
@@RAWsassin it's alright, I'm just tired of Korean MMO gearing. As an archeage player I was also disappointed by the lack of ocean stuff. I am glad to see a more pvp focused game get attention though.
@@Twilight5007 man I feel like archeage was really next level for its time, so much new content for the genre and so much PvP at the beginning, too bad they messed up the game so soon :(
Ooof... Crowfall.... I'm still QQing too
Very good video, good points both for and against. Love that kind of content!
Instant subscribe!
They're getting a ton of money from folks without having to release the game and the game is nowhere near to be ready to be released?! Say it ain't so!
The servers are definitely improving and not because of less players , with the mass amount I saw today they were still pretty bad but a lot better than August, like quite noticeably a lot better than August
Medieval Star Citizen.
Nothing wrong with trying to innovate their respective genre instead of relying on "AAAA" game devs and publishers so long as their is a community to support it.
They'd have to be selling unreleased mounts at $2K a pop while spending millions on actors like Mark Hamill, Gillian Anderson, and Henry Cavill to talk in their single player game for that to be true.
If it is, I'm 100% for it.
@@Athasin Star citizen doesnt make you pay $15 a month to play. AOC is definitely worse
At least all I paid and need to pay for SC was $45; I'm not dropping $120 to play this
I have to say that I liked my game experience and so I am fully satisfied.
Critiquing things that are expected in an Alpha makes me actually wonder if this can be actually taken as a negatiive point as Alpha is exactly there for this.
I have no issue with the not overwhelming amount of content as you can learn the mechanics existing better with not 20 systems at the very beginning.
Soloing was kinda great so far for me and due to the large amount of players you temporarly group up with randoms when required or when it is helpful. You totally can do it unless you want to become the best at server.
"Bad news for AoC?"
Now is the time to commit meaningful feedback to help create the MMO you're looking for. It's only bad if you don't do anything about it.
Also it never ceases to amaze me how many people will play an ALPHA build of a game and go "Where is the game?". Do you people even know what an alpha build is? Evidently not. These are not the kinds of people you want testing your game. They will be focused on the wrong things.
(Also Steven said that Alpha 2 will be updated over time with additional content. What players are playing right now isn't even the entire package.)
Finally someone who summarized how stupid people are.
Thank you.
cope harder.
@@Wotanson56 Where is the cope? You should spend less time projecting your insecurities on others and more time thinking critically.
So let me get this straight. This game started development in 2015. The industry standard for a mmorpg is 7 years. It's already been 9 years, and you're shocked that people reacted this badly to a BAD GAME? The animations look wack, it doesn't have half the things it promised it would, nothing about this game is good. Sure, it's just Alpha. But in the time it took them to release this crap, other games made fully polished games and launched them. Throne and Liberty for example (started development in 2017 and was out in KR by 2023). Why do you find it weird that people who paid money for this game's development get mad over the fact that their money got pretty much stolen? And on top of that they have to pay MORE to get access to the 1/4 of a game they paid for in the beginning?
If people were as stupid as yall and accepted crap just because "u-uwu it's just an alpha don't be mean guys" we'd have way shittier games. People getting angry and giving some well deserved backlash helps the game, and ultimately YOU, more than your "uwu let's be kind and understand" attitude. These people don't care about you, they care about your wallet, and if they notice you're not happy with what they're doing and won't pay them more, they're gonna change shit.
@@miuletzmitzu6641
1) No, the industry standard is as long as it takes to get the game to a shippable state.
2) Im not shocked at anything but the idiocy of players who don't know what certain development phases are when they're the ones being exposed to it.
3) Pointing out how other games have releases in this time has literally no weight on anything. What other MMOs have released at the scale that AoC is aimed to operate at? What MMOs have released with the same feature sets and tech? The fact that you're saying this at all tells me you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You literally cannot compare a half-baked mobile port MMO that is 90% preused assets to a game that.. isn't that. You're an idiot.
4) What "backlash"? The largest complaints were about bugs and lack of content... In an alpha build. Not features. Again, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You went off on me as if I'm sitting here defending Intrepid, but not a single thing I said defends them. Lmao. You need some critical thinking skills, broski. Go back to playing your garbage Korean P2W MMOs that they churn out every two years.
Looks like the game is in the state as advertised. Good vid. thanks. They warned people to stay away if you are looking for any polish.
I was 20 when I first heard of this game lmao, I'm 27 now
@@Touchin-Grass If the game was released now. But it will probably be closer to a 15 year development cycle
@@Touchin-Grass it is not 5yrs max is a normal cycle this will need 11yrs and i im optimistc with the 11yrs, its way to long.
@@ufukakkoyun6969 5 years max? eso took 7 years and gw2 took 6 years and that are no small studios
@@ufukakkoyun6969 How many people were working on the game in the first 4 years of its development you think?
It doesn't make sense to say "game is under development for 8 years" when the first few years there were barely 20 people on it.
How old were you when Rockstar started working on GTA 6?
When I backed this on KS in 2019 it said it would be playable in 2020. It's now 2024 and it's just entering the 'weekend test phase'. It's going to be a crazy long delivery timeline.
Big pass for that kind of money. They should be paying me to test their game.
they indeed have people testing the game getting payed, ur a nobody tho, if you dont want to test, just dont lol, no one forcing u
@@JunimonPK do they though?
In fear of getting another run of the mill theme park MMO. I'm glad that they are charging to test the game. This is the way it HAS to be done to avoid another brain dead MMO. The reason they went this route is because the only people that are willing pay to help test the game are people who actually care about the development of the game. I wouldn't want 10k people who want another WoW clone to be testing or giving their feedback based on something that this game isn't trying to be. Not trying to be rude, just offering another perspective.
@@Mibarri Whatever you have to tell yourself man.
it sounds like a lot of money in a chunk, but the sub fee is going to be $15/ month so if you take into account that $120 lets you play the game through all testing phases, including beta and gives you a month of play time after 1.0 release, its actually really cheap. of course you could make the point that the sub fee is for a completed game, and alpha doesn't have the same value, but you still get to try all the systems and give feedback so there's value there. if it's not worth it to you, i don't think anyone will twist your arm, but i thought i'd give another perspective on the cost.
If a team is gonna work this hard for this long on a bold vision, I'm going to pay and enjoy it for what it's worth - bugs and all. C'est la vie
Thanks for the mention brother 💪
We're currently stress testing servers and surprisingly it's been extremely smooth.
ALL A2 testers have been invited to fully stress test today 👀
HOLY SHIT IT'S JAMIE
@@quackwilliams5933 let's gooo! 🤣
Not all of us...stuck in Wave 1 😢
@@Texinga We're crawling on broken knees you you may run with stubbed toes 🥺🤣
@@quackwilliams5933 hell yeah dude 🤣
It is essentially early access, because they said "alpha access" will run until release.
I gotta say... Such a long wait for this game, and then everytime i see the combat i am like "oh, is that ESO?... Oh its ashes... Ok."
Long wait? Throne and Liberty's development took 13 years before it released. And this game is supposed to be more ambitious than that.
@@DBTHEPLUG WoW classic development took 4 years. And for that time, everything about the game was revolutionary. There's mmos out there, with better resources and software, that don't even come close to the systems and mechanics classic wow has. Also, Throne and Liberty didn't take 13 years of development to take. But it doesn't surprise me that AoC bootlickers spread misinformation like that. Throne and Liberty was first constructed as a Lineage sequel in 2011, a way different game that's more similar to diablo than what it is now. The company wasn't satisfied with it and scratched the whole idea, then came back to it in 2017 and started FROM THE GROUND UP with Project TL. The official start of the development was in 2017, which is 7 years ago. It took 6 years to release in KR, and 7 for the West. AoC has been in development for how many years again?
TL isn't the best, but it's pretty decent. It looks good at least, and has some interesting mechanics. AoC legit is an ESO clone, the animations look wack, and besides empty promises with not much to show for it the game got what exactly going for it? Ambition doesn't make a game good. Results do. Throne and Liberty started development around the same time as AoC. Yet one is a fully finished and polished game, that looks amazing, plays good, and has never seen before systems in a mmorpg. And the other has animations that made you think you're watching ESO get ported into Roblox by a 15 year old kid.
@@miuletzmitzu6641 I mean, didn't they already make WoW classic in 2004?
@miuletzmitzu6641 When Googling how long the development of Throne and Liberty took, that's the first result that shows up.
Go tell Google they're showing the wrong results instead of sending me an essay.
Intrepid / Steven really should just come out with an honest take on the transitional period between A1, Apoc and A2. Even if it is quite literally a
"We gained a lot of engineering and back-end experience from A1 and Apoc tests but ultimately, based on feedback and results, we did go back and rebuild from the ground up for A2."
People keep saying that it's been 8 years of development as though that's 8 years of actual production. It clearly isn't, there has been a reset of some sorts where they had gone from planning and pre-production to production and then backtracked into planning and ditched the production builds.
Yeah i think they struggle a lot with the architectural groundwork. We can only hope that their current plan works out, at least they seem to be very optimistic about it.
IF they figured it out and the next 2-3 years are gonna be focused on producing actual content (worldbuilding, classes, systems), a lot of progress is possible. Time will tell
The idea to pay them for testing their game is foreign to me.
As a product it's a very bad purchase. People who buy in are hopeful that the game will be good one day and want to help make it that way.
TLDR: This is in alpha, and more shockingly, water is wet!
EQNext. Crowfall. Camelot. Pantheon. Ashes... etc ... Agreed - I am sick of these crowdfunded MMO's that never release a viable product.
Crowdfunded = passionless and high profit business opportunity.
Couldn't agree more - I Kickstarted Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen and Ashes - never again!
10:00 Honestly if someone enters an ALPHA and expect it to be somewhat complete, then thats 100% a you-issue, not the game.
The appeal to solo play for me is that I can play at my own pace, do my own thing and ultimately relax. I wonder if the increase for this demand is coming from original MMO players getting older and not having the time for raids and such like we used to.
Thats just the core of MMORPG games, its literally a time sink for people who have no life. Casually playing MMORPG will just make you fall so behind, you might as well quit because catching up just takes way too much time to crunch. To be honest, MMORPG are just dead, its trying to stay on life support for these Early Access games but in reality, people don't have a lot of time anymore to sink into playing a game 4-10 hrs a day every week.
Sure most older MMORPGs back then were mainly played by older people who have a lot of money from their jobs or have jobs that allowed them to stay home more which allows them to play MMORPGs all day long basically. That ain't really can be done anymore in modern times where people are more worried trying to get a job than to stay at home playing MMORPG for 5+ hrs everyday.
I can attest to that. I quit T&L because I couldn't devote as much time to guild activities (which is the entire end game) due to my job. I kinda miss playing GW2 as well because of this
@@rasmie8858go and play GW2 u will have fun
eyy good video , very informative and actually knowing what you're talking about
And with that information, my interest is dried up. This feels like being strung along at this point.
I remember when it was first kickstarted, I said to myself “this game looks so fun I can’t wait, sucks that it’s going to be another five years till I can play it”
7 years after I said that and it’s barely a game
I think he's WAY off on his timeline. I'd bet good money it has a full 1.0 release in 2026.
@@kreenbopulusmichael7205 Did you really think 10 people can make a full MMO in 5 years bro?
@@BattleBorn13 lmfaoooooo
@@hagaiak when did I say that ?
An Alpha is not a game... People are just starved piranhas jumping to whatever piece of meat that touches the water...
this game really does look like it came out in 2005 and when a time where good MMOs are basically dead, when this games does come out by 2050 i don't even know if the genre will be a thing anymore.
You are giving 2050 too much credit, cars won't be flying dw
When you say 2005 what are you talking about? Do you mean graphically? The PS3 came out in 2006? I've never seen a PS2 game that looked like unreal engine 5. If so link me the video.
@@williamwayne4043 You realize PC games existed back in 2005, right? this isn't about ps2, i don't know why you brought that up, or maybe you're console only. but obviously yes, the game looks severely dated.
drink every time force says _"4 years from now"_
Couldn't agree more on your closing statement.
The game is a perfect example of why overdesign can be bad
It will crash and burn, like Icarus
For testing, they are wise to not have a large chunk active at the moment. Its easier to trace bugs and manage their core/foundational services in a smaller area. I'm guessing that they will roll out more as they are happy with performance at load.
Let’s all be honest, 8 years of development, a barebones product released, and crowdfunding have never worked out and it’s a bad sign.
albion online did, and aoc is kinda the same crowd of gamers.
It does work for smaller games. small games its pretty nice. but for a huge game like a MMORPG, its just impossible TBH.
The alarm bells should be ringing. If you are buying in at this point, hopefully you are loaded with cash and just want to support their attempt. (or else make income from making content about the games/video-games in general & so it's basically a business expense)
@@pogo6543211111111Albion is a much smaller game in every way
@@BygoneUser1 you have to be loaded with crash to spent 100$ for minimum 3 years of content + game time at release? some people dont live from pay check to pay check.
Give Pantheon a 2nd look. Its going into Early Access in Dec. I think its only $50 for full 24/7 access till they launch in a few years. 6 races, 10 classes and huge world growing quickly. They have been super busy over there.
@@potsandjacks it's also absolute dog shit too with art direction that looks like it's being decided by a programmer
@@rory7466 Thats an opinion formeed befoe the new art was really implemented. The new human model was a placeholder for example. Its been revised now. Everthing that's been rolling out has been moving in a great direction. Dark grimy. Lots of character.
But really the best part about it that it WORKS haha. Several hundred players in one zone. Almost no lag or server issues. Very solid foundation. Very responsive.
AoC had a hard time with 100 people
@@rory7466 but thats definetly the coppy paste comment that Pantheon normally gets. /shrug
@@potsandjacks I was talking about the new art direction, as a tiny team they should have gone for a minimal low poly style, now they've started adding high detail 'realistic' models they've completely painted themselves into a corner because that stuff obviously takes way longer to make and has a big impact on performance the more of it you add to the game, they're completely confused in their art direction and it's gonna bite them in the ass further down the line
@@rory7466 That’s not what they’re doing at all.
And also why I encourage people to take a second look at it because most people have a outdated opinion and are just not informed
I've been following this game's development for several years, and I know that it is at least 2 years away from full release. I am still very excited to see this come to full release. However, I am 60 years old and would like to play it while I still have the physical and mental abilities to do so. As a result, I decided to buy into the Alpha 2 testing, knowing it will be buggy as heck. Hopefully it comes to full release before I'm 6ft under.
Man your comment cuts deep. I'm 42 and been playing MMOs since DAoC at 17. One day soon I'll be in your shoes, hoping that my aging hands can hold out a little longer for the next big drop. My hat goes off to you, friend. Here's to hoping we meet in battle for decades to come!
Dick Garriot’s kickstarter “Shroud of the Avatar” went this same way. 10 years later we have 1 & 3/4 chapters to play of the promised 5 chapters. This is not a good Omen. Maybe we’ll get the full game (AoC) around the same time Star Citizen hits final release. Seems like Light No Fire is my last hope. Fingers still crossed for AoC, I’ve been looking forward to it for a long time.
At least that game is literally free and can be played totally solo offline.
Unless Light No Fire has vastly improved combat over No Man's Sky, it's just going to be a very visually impressive upgrade with unimpressive mechanics. AoC and SC should take all the time they need, because it's not like they have any competition whatsoever.
@@jjstraka1982 wasnt free for those of us foolish enough to back the game in 2014 for hundreds, in some cases tens of thousands of dollars. When Portalarium went tits up, so did the game. Prior to the devs walking away on the backers the game was a subscription model.
Your descriptions are very accurate Force. Well done. It is indeed meant as an alliance versus alliance (many guilds) game, mixing PvPvE. The PvP will have some moderation, but it is not designed to be fully safe PvE playable (it is not like New World).
As soon as you said not solo friendly I checked out