Difference between Tenet Inversion and Time Travel
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- This is a brief explanation of what time inversion is in Christopher Nolan's Tenet, as well as how it differs from the time travel in other sci-fi movies. This video is great for those who have already seen Tenet, but are still a little (or a lot) confused about inversion and how it works.
I’ve been waiting for someone with a PHD in tenet to explain this
I’m surprised this doesn’t have more views. Big props to you for actually understanding and explaining it to the rest of us.
Thanks man! Yeah hopefully one day I’ll have more views and subscribers
Absolutely excellent analysis! There is one flaw though at 6:18 - if you inverted yourself in 2020, say, and remained inverted for 5 years, and then un-inverted in 2015, you’d have to wait an additional 5 years before you could get back to 2020. So you’d be 10 years older, not just 5.
Yeah someone else mentioned that to me and I checked the math and it seems I made an error. Well, math has never really been my strong suit 😂
@@stephenford3359 never mind, it was an easy error to make. The rest of your analysis was on point and deeply insightful!
@@stephenford3359 This math mistake (something I'm not good at) has added more credence to the Neil/Max theory. Considering that if the theory is correct; than it makes more sense that he'd only invert for half the time...or something...the movie ties my brain in a not; but I love it. Great video.
I seriously wish I could meet you guys in real life. I love having conversations like these. Sadly the people I'm around are not into these kind of conversations 😒😒
I don't understand.... Why would you have to be wait an extra 5 years...
Awesome video! I thought you did an excellent job of explaining everything. Inversion can easily be a difficult thing to grasp but I can tell you really did your homework to explain it so well.
Thank you! I’m glad you liked it. I also have a video analyzing the Oslo Freeport fight scene if you’re interested
@@stephenford3359 well explained....ya we need free port video post it for us pls🙏🙏
@@moulakhan6890 I already have. Go to my channel
@@stephenford3359 ya i watched it....excellent video 👌👌
Really good breakdown, nicely explained. I never noticed this while watching the film, but at 4:50 when we first see an inverted bullet at the Opera, it clips the protagonists arm as it flies back into the gun. You can see a bit of blood. I wonder if they were initially going to show the reverse injury mechanic at play but thought it might be confusing this early in the film.
Yeah you’re probably right. But I do know that injury was also in the original Nolan script. I read it. So it was intentional from the start
Time Travel: There a bus taking you through time.
Inversion: You're hitchhiking back through time.
Dude. This blew my mind even more. I think I get it though. But holy crap!
What happens to you if you enter a turnstile but your inverted self is not on the other side.
You can’t. If you are going to enter a turnstile, your inverted self WILL be on the other side.
@@stephenford3359 Thanks
Ives also said if you approach a turnstile and you don’t see yourself reverse existing through the proving window, it means you’re not getting out. So you’d be trapped in a state of nothingness.
It means you never got inverted. Meaning you are still in forward time. Even if you come out of Inverted chamber, for some reason, the inversion didn't happen.
Then we get a horror movie featuring only your inverted self stuck in a permanently looped pincer maneuver. Congratulations Protagonist you entered a malfunctioning Turnstile ! 🍷
Stephen Ford: a characters entropy gets reversed
*LOOKS UP ENTROPY*
:(
k*logΩ
I fuckin love this movie
brilliantly explained!
This is really good. Makes sense.
What is the source of the blue print of the turnstile?
Omg this is so detailed
And if history doesn't care that our degenerate friend Fry is his own grandfather, then who are we to judge?
I’ve spent a fair amount of time trying to understand inversion better. There are some great videos and animations out there. But this approach really crystallized the idea for me. Thank you!
Helpful explanation, done in a pace I could understand it better than other "explanation" videos. Thanks!
Exactly
I clearly wasn't destined to be a physicist. I will need to watch this video several time
Pretty good. But in your example at the end of the video, if you spend 5 years inverted, you will be 10 years older than your birthday would suggest, rather than 5. You spend 5 inverted, and 5 reverted. When your past self disappears into the turnstile, you have lived 10 more years than him.
Having trouble understanding this one ngl
Oh yeah you’re right. Thanks for bringing that up!
@@sebastianmcgovern9966 Suppose you're 30 years old when you decide to invert. You go through the turnstile. Now you're inverted. You spend 5 years inverted, then decide to un-invert. Now you're back to normal time flow, and are 35 years old. 5 years pass again, but forwards. Now you're 40. You see your 30-year-old self enter the turnstile and disappear along with your inverted self. It's been 30 years since the day you were born, but you're 40 years old.
@@Posby95 What I did when I read your comment was I used myself as an example. I was born in 1995 and I’m 25, almost 26, now. If I went through a turnstile for 5 years, I would be 30, almost 31, and it would be 2016 (feels like yesterday). In 2016, I wasn’t even legally able to drink. So my present self would be 10 years older than my original 2016 self, and that 10 year age gap would continue indefinitely into the future. I feel kind of embarrassed about my mistake now. I should have been more careful. So maybe I’ll reupload my video in the future with the mistake corrected.
The other analysis videos, even the 1M view ones, fail to catch a lot of this minutiae. Like an inverted version of oneself not existing unless and until they use a turnstile. And the idea that you can’t follow your inverted self unless you are also traveling in the same direction. Red can follow red, but red cannot follow blue.
One question - why the protagonist (uninverted) was able to catch bullet when scientist was explaining her the concept?
The bullet was inverted, therefore it's movement responded better to reversed moving time if the actions of forward moving time COULD have caused the bullet to drop in the first place. (The movie's high concept hinges on the lack of freewill, and every interaction is deterministic, and independent of the flow of time.)
You'll notice his hand moving in a semi reverse way to coax the response out of the bullet. When she shown the video footage in reverse, it was visible that the reversed actions actually did cause the bullet to drop. Because from the bullet's perspective, it did. After said bullet experience it's time on the table, it was then in the gun, and fired into the wall fragment. All those actions are still logical to the bullet.
i dont get it how the bullet got there
in the first place i
Le concept ne fonctionne pas du tout
So what happens if you go thru Inverted machine and become inverted and never come back to this mean to get back to normal.. are you stuck as being "inverted" forever and seeing everything in reverse until you die of old age?
I'm not sure the permanence of inversion was stressed enough in Tenet... perhaps I was already straining too hard to keep up.
Palindrome time and palindrome title TENET.
even though im still not smart enough to grasp this i have this feeling you have explained it better then anyone else on YT
Well said. I feel the same
Tenet's method of "time travel" seems to be influenced by the 2004 movie Primer. In Primer (like in Tenet) you would have to wait for 5 hours, in order to get 5 hours into the past. You can't travel these 5 hours instantly, like in most time travel movies.
The mechanics of both of the films aren't the same. But, as you said. The formula can be same. Because, both of the movie's time travel works in real time. But, I don't think you have to wait 5/6 hours to do something in Tenet. By the time you enter the turnsile you already create an alternative (inverted) version of yourself. But, you didn't have to wait 6 hours to travel back (Like Primer). You waited for the time when it happened. But, in real world. The Protagonist waited for the moment of Sator coming back for the algorithm. Because, that's what he is after. You can do it easily in an inverted time. In Primer you have to wait 6 hours in the box to go back to your destination. Both of them are trippy in a similar way. But, not very much similarly. Also, I think both Shane Carruth and Nolan heavily inspired by Feynman and Wheeler's diagram. I found that in Wikipedia where Shane talked about his influence on Primer. Neil mentioned about this in Tenet too.
@@mahbubulhaque735 There are many differences between Primer and Tenet movies. But what connects them is the idea that travelling into past happens in "real time" so to speak. That is, it takes as long, as the amount of time you want to go into past. It can be 5 hours or 5 days or whatever. You can't jump into your destination time instantly. And while you travel into the past, you are "inverted". In Primer, we the viewers can't see the inverted person, because he is inside a box. In Tenet, the inverted person walks around for us to see.
That was such a good movie.
its just primer but you can get out of the time machine
my god this movie is brilliant
I wonder what happens when you toss in time dilation. Travel away and back at X percent speed of light, then go into the turnstiles. Or turnstiles near a black hole.
Well, if the turnstile was near a black hole, then the time dilation wouldn’t even be noticeable. Because both the inverted and forward version of you would be equally time dilated relative to each other, so there would be no noticeable difference.
Le concept entier ne peut marcher
very cool. Thanks
i still don't get it the temporal pincer movement. i thought i did but nah. hahah. Great video though :*
What don’t you get? Maybe I can clarify it
@@stephenford3359 its all right. I think you explained it well. Its my ability to comprehend thats the issue. Haha. Have a good day!
@@MsBernadettex In Tenet, the goal of the Protagonist’s Tenet team was to “fail” to stop the explosion. This was in order to ensure that Sator and his future correspondents would believe the algorithm had been successfully buried beneath the rubble at the hypoceter. The explosion was smokescreen; the Tenet team meant to allow the explosion to happen, but discretely retrieve the algorithm from it.
In the Tallinn car chase incident, Sator intended to acquire information about the location of the algorithm in order to bring it to the hypocenter so that the Tenet operation would “fail” (the outcome he predicted based on his connections with the future). In reality, his success at retrieving the “Plutonium 241” was in accordance with the plan of Tenet. The 241 was meant to end up in Tallinn so that the explosion (smokescreen) could occur. Sator, not knowing this, planned his own “temporal pincer” movement, which involved the Protagonist thinking he had passed the 241 safely in the Saab in Tallinn, then collecting it later on. So Sator’s temporal pincer succeeded, but failed within the larger temporal pincer of the Protagonist’s Tenet organization. Does your head hurt yet?
@@stephenford3359 mm yes. Haha. I probably need to rewatch it and read your comments and video again 🤣
I'm also having trouble understanding it. An additional video wouldn't hurt. Thanks for your video!
WHAT?
One thing tha bugs me is the inverted bullet in the wall. Sure in inverted time it makes sense the bullet was shot and ended in the wall, spending the rest of its inverted time there. But for the rest of the forward world, that bullet is in that wall since the wall was constructed, which is very weird. You put a brick to construct the wall and then you realize there is a bullet inside it. Before that, the guy that took mud to make the brick saw the bullet there and let it cook into the brick. And when the brick was ready, it is not that it only had a bullet inside, it had also a hole on the surface
This also bugged me big time. Take the Saab that un-flips over during the car chase scene. Was there a pile of ashes in middle of the road for decades that slowly reordered itself into a flipped car until the car chase occurs and we see it flip back up? The answer is in the idea of "entropy wind" that the creator of the video mentions briefly. The entropy of the world around us "blows" in one direction (towards our future) and outweighs the inverted entropy of the inverted object that "blows" opposite (towards our past). So, what we should see in forward time is a perfectly normal piece of glass that slowly develops cracks that after a while takes the appearance of a bullet hole and then heals itself instantly when the inverted bullet is un-shot during the airport fight. Check out Welby CoffeeSpill channel. He has a full series of videos illustrating this. His videos are very helpful.
@@maujo2009 the entropy wind is a good explanation. I saw the video you suggested, at ua-cam.com/video/FVdBLjNR5TU/v-deo.html
You’re thinking is on the right track. But the thing is, in the Tenet universe, physics can make it work. It can be argued that the entire space-time continuum needs consistency, therefore quantum physics will smooth out any problems. So, if we are to use our imagination, the bricklayer certainly didn’t notice anything. But after he left, there was a slight crack. And over the next several years, that crack got bigger and bigger-no one knew why, or noticed, or cared. Then eventually, the Protagonist shot an inverted bullet that fixed it. This is a perfectly conceivable solution.
THANK YOU. you did better job than Christopher Nolan explaining it.
very nice explanation thank you ! Can you please explain the 'shooting at the wall ' demonstration of the scientist who placed the bullets in the laboratory if the wall fragment was from the Stalsk fighting ? How can you change the future by this mechanism of time travel ? the car chase part is a good example and finally how the future humans will benefit from the inversion of the world ? Thank you in advance !
Wow I just realized why my life is so chaotic... I am inverted.
i enjoy this movie SO much but i really can't grasp it fully
At first I was completely confused on how this actually worked when I first seen the movie. But you've broke it down beautifully. Thanks to you I'll definitely be looking into this a lot more.
Best explanation I’ve seen on this, good shit bro
The key word is entropy
Well explained
Two things that still confuse me:
1. Under what circumstances does the inversion effect rub off on other things? For example, sometimes people die when they get unshot from an inverted bullet, but other times it causes their wounds to heal.
2. At what point does the damage that will later get repaired appear? For example, when there's a hole in the wall that repairs itself once the inverted bullet is unshot, how long ago did that hole appear?
These are both the same question: basically does an effect move in the direction of the target’s own entropy, or in the direction of its cause. And the answer is… both actually. It happens both ways for different events in the film. I’ve looked at various instances and I haven’t found any specific factor that determines whether it happens one way or the other. For instance, when Kat was shot at Oslo, notice the bullet damaged her but “healed” the glass barrier at the same time. So that one cause (Sator’s bullet) had two opposite entropy effects on two different thing it damaged (Kat’s body and the glass). I would just attribute these different reactions to perhaps quantum randomness. Like I said, I haven’t found a pattern to explain it.
@@stephenford3359inverted neil sustained a inverted injury from a regular bullet.
i suspect it has to do with how the effect will change the causality. if the wound will minimally affect the causality, meaning youd reasonably be able to get to the origin point of the injury with it, it goes the same direction as the cause. if the wound will maximally affect causality, like its deadly or will paralyze you or something, it will go the direction of the target.
thats why the protag had the “inverse” knife wound, and why normal kat had the normal bullet wound.
the window obviously doesnt act with any will so it will always sustain injuries going the direction of the cause.
Are you really gonna spend 7 fucking minutes explaining to people how 'rewind' works?