I know Gimli was just allowed into Valinor with Legolas, but I will never not be amused by the idea that Legolas snuck him in under his coat, Looney-tunes style
I think the specific words in the Appendices suggest that Gimli's fate was not known for sure. That it is believed he MAY have traveled west with Legolas, though it mentions that it would be weird both for a Dwarf to abandon Middle-Earth and the wealth and crafts there as well as weird for the Valar to welcome them to Valinor (that's where it suggests that Galadriel may have put in a good word for him). Now, since the appendices are, ostensibly, written by the Hobbits of the Fellowship (and possibly Sam's daughter), it could just be that they don't KNOW what happened to him. Or maybe Tolkien never made up his mind. I'm not sure. It seems weird that the Valar wouldn't invite a Dwarf to the undying lands since the Dwarves were literally made by Aule. So, I like to think that he went with Legolas and was welcomed freely, without Galadriel needing to intervene on his behalf. After all, he WAS a hero.
They sailed to Tol Eressea, the Lonely Isle, where the Elves went, within far sight of Valinor. No one was ever allowed back to the land of the Valar, which had been closed to all.
The cleverest thing Tolkien did was to populate Middle Earth with fantastical races and creatures that were “fading”, which invokes a deep sense of nostalgia in the reader. Whenever we encounter a magical being like an elf or a dwarf or a dragon, Tolkien always reminds the reader that it’s leaving the world or somehow becoming scarce. That’s the hook he uses to trigger nostalgia and make people feel close to the novels.
Interesting point. I never thought about it like that. It's true though. Galadriel's monologue at 'Fellowship of the Ring' plays right into that. As viewer, you immediately yearn for those 'times gone by' and fear the uncertain and potentially violent future.
Personally I thought that was a horrible idea as it's the same reason why he never wrote anything after lotr. Do to all conflicts would be between humans and how the world became gray and dull, Tolkien even mentions how he couldn't gather inspiration to write another story after humans inherited the planet. It's the main reason that one guy i forget his name said he plagiarized his story. His main point was Tolkien wrote himself into a corner that he would never get out of, where he wouldnt be able to further the worlds lore. not his exact quote
@@jonnnnniej I agree. The people who have only watched the films, and never read a BOOK. You know the ones, watch a film and don't care about what is wrong, or added, or missing. The low IQ goldfish. Those ones.
Except maybe Arwen. It's not explicitly stated anywhere that I can recall that the Valar gave her the choice of the Half-Elves (or, indeed, ever communicated with her at all). She wasn't happy when Aragorn decided to lay down and die like the old Numenorean kings. So she left her family behind and basically committed suicide in Lothlorien.
@@daniels7907 IIRC, Elrond communicated the choice of the Half--Elves or human existence to her, she made her choice and when Aragon died there was no way back for her to the Undying Lands since Cirdan had already left Middle Earth.
@@daniels7907 I believe that choice of hers is what she gives in gift to Frodo, to allow him passage to Elvenhome. Or, at least; in giving him her place on one of the ships, she makes her choice.
@@daniels7907 And everyone was like "well we told you so". In real life, the only old people that were so deeply fixated on their partners were those who were not really on good terms with their children. But as far as we know, Arwen had a son and several daughters, and its very likely that at the time of Aragorn´s death, she was already a great-grandma, so she surely had no scarcity of close family members some of whom lived with her almost as long as Aragorn did...
@@Zzyzx-- - Elrond is not one of the Valar. It's not his call. Indeed, it's not even really indicated that Arwen had aged enough, or even aged at all, such that she would have to die just because Aragorn did. In general, your spouse dying doesn't mean that you must immediately follow. Although Tolkien did seem disturbingly enamored with the idea.
One of the things that always occurs to me about Sam is that he was made to love. Frodo. The Shire. Rosie. All things. Sam was presented as simple, but his understanding was broad.
To me this fading of the fantastical was always the thing I disliked the most about Tolkiens works. Especially for things which vanished without proper reason like the dwarves. I know why Tolkien did it this way, I understand his perspective. But it goes against my own perspective of the world. Because the world never diminishes in complexity, quite the contrary. Sure singular things can be lost, but always with a proper reason. And given enough time, new equally complex things evolve to take their place. This wasn't Tolkiens perspective as his was a crafted world. And like every crafted object it gets worn out with time. Yet here my perspective is too different as I said
@@hangebza6625 To be fair to Tolkien, it's not so much that the world diminished in complexity rather the magic of things receded beyond our view. In a way it's comparable to how one day - many billions of years, granted - only the stars of our local group of galaxies will be visible. It will seem to those that live then that the Universe only consists of a handful of galaxies. If records of now somehow still persisted, it would seem to those in the far future that the Universe lost unfathomable complexity yet in reality that complexity simply receded beyond knowing.
@@hangebza6625 But if we look at it from the broader perspective Middle Earth was meant for humans since the beginning, humans were "chosen" by the God, they were the only beings whose soul were taken by the God after they died. Elves and wizards were there to guide humans and protect them or rather help them fight forces of evil and when humans were independent on their own and whem there were no evil lords in Middle Earth elves and wizards left. Dwarves were never part of the God's plan, they were created behind his back by one of the Valar, God accepted them, but when the time has come they had to leave everything to humans as God has planned. So nothing really vanished without a reason, it was all God's will ;p we don't know why he was taking human souls or why they were him main focus, but we know that Middle Earth was for them, so other races had to go.
@@cpt.flamer7184 Incorrect. Men and elves were supposed to live alongside the Valar. The Marring and separation and fading were all down to Melkor's influence and (to a small degree) the Valar's reluctance to commit to decisive action. Yes, this was accounted for and considered, but intention isn't the same thing as foreknowledge of the outcome. "This is said because the invitation given to the Eldar to remove to Valinor and live unendangered by Melkor was not in fact according to the design of Eru. It arose from anxiety, and it might be said from failure in trust of Eru, from anxiety and fear of Melkor, and the decision of the Eldar to accept the invitation was due to the overwhelming effect of their contact, while still in their inexperienced youth, with the bliss of Aman and the beauty and majesty of the Valar. It had disastrous consequences in diminishing the Elves of Middle-earth and so depriving Men of a large measure of the intended help and teaching of their 'elder brethren’, and exposing them more dangerously to the power and deceits of Melkor. Also since it was in fact alien to the nature of the Elves to live under protection in Aman, and not (as was intended) in Middle-earth, one consequence was the revolt of the Ñoldor." - Parma Eldalamberon No. 17 Eru intended for men and elves to live alongside the Valar and for all of Arda to be like Valinor. He knew, being omnipotent, that Melkor would attempt to disrupt the Music and factored it into His intentions so that nothing Melkor would ever do could pervert the nature of the Music, only reinforce it, but this isn't the same thing as what was intended. And in the End the original intention shall be made manifest and Arda will be made grander than it ever was.
It's pretty saddening that all magic began passing from the world. Sauron was awful but his presence was also keeping other wonderous magical elements present in Middle Earth. After him it becomes more like a normal world. Which is kind of a bummer.
Not so unthinkable, especially to an Englishman like Tolkien who would recall that King George III and Queen Charlotte produced *15* children, beating out Sam and Rosie.
@@thing_under_the_stairs - Well, Sam didn't sail West until after she had died of old age. So it's not like their marriage was cut short. They seem to have enjoyed a good life.
There is a grim note in _Unfinished Tales_ about the destiny of the Hobbits: "The much later dwindling of Hobbits must be due to a change in their state and way of life; they became a fugitive and secret people, driven (as Men, the Big Folk, became more and more numerous, usurping the more fertile and habitable lands) to refuge in forest or wilderness: a wandering and poor folk, forgetful of their arts, living a precarious life absorbed in the search for food, and fearful of being seen."
The animated Return of the King film suggests in a very straightforward manner that hobbits simply evolved into men. It states that because of Merry and Pippin’s drinking of the magical Ent water that made them grow taller, their children were born bigger than usual hobbit size and that each generation of their descendants got taller and taller.
@@NoneofYourBusiness667 I like that headcanon, however, it's not really supported in the actual writing. Even if Merry and Pippin's children were supernaturally large, that's only two families out of hundreds, maybe thousands. It's unlikely it would have an effect on the race as a whole. Furthermore, in the Hobbit, Tolkien describes Hobbits as still existing in the world, just being very rare and furtive. This suggests that Hobbits are one of the few (possibly the only) "magical" creatures in the Legendarium to remain in our world more or less unchanged until the present day. The Elves have likely all faded away to spirits or banshees. The Dwarves might still be around. It's not specified when their people "failed", but because Tolkien talks about it in the past tense, we can assume they are none present in the modern day. Even if there are, they are so reclusive and deeply entrenched in their hidden halls that they may as well not exist. Everything else either explicitly died out or faded away.
I like to believe Hobbits simply intermarried with humans over the millennia. Same for the dwarves who stayed on the surface. Same for the orcs who weren't slaughtered immediately. And so the strength and hardiness of all three races is preserved in the legacy of humanity.
Damn Merry and Pippin got buried next to the King? even someone without knowledge of LotR and those characters roles would instantly realize that thats a huge deal!
I'd just finished a long-overdue return to the series, and the ending after The Scouring of the Shire surprised me. Story time: I'd been given the nickname "Samwise" in the Scouts because the movies had just come out and I was *that Scout* who always overpacked on the cookware and food and made sure that everyone ate well. Anywho, years go by, I became a dad and named my youngest "Daisy". I return to LOTR and re-learn that Samwise Gamgee did the same for one of his own daughters. Life imitates art sometimes.
It's hard for an old man like me to imagine that someone who was in the Scouts when the movies came out now has children of their own... Nice that Tolkien's work is still remembered and read.
@@MyName-tb9oz Big same. All I remember was showing the Marine Corps recruiter pictures of the inside of my knee from my knee surgery before firing up my Zune to listen to Streetlight Manifesto. It's still 2006, right?
Man, I love this channel so much! Almost every video I've watched so far was HIGHLY entertaining. Thank you for creating these Videos, In Deep Geek! : )
I've read and re-read all of Tolkien's works over many many years and my views on things have shifted and evolved as I have grown older. I had a point to make, but I've forgotten it.
Aragorn's tax policy is undiscussed but it can be assumed it's a relatively normal (European) medieval/pre-medieval flat percentage. Early European medieval tax would have been about 2% of their lands/properties value
I know this is a joke, but that wasn't his point. The point was that different writers prioritize different things. Although he personally wants to know Aragorn's tax policy, that wasn't Tokien's priority (and that's ok). He also idolizes Tolkien and rereads all the books every few years. Edit: I'm clarifying this because a lot of people seem to misconstrue that quote into GRR Martin disliking Tolkien.
Certainly we must consider also The New Shadow, that unpublished fragment which tells us at least that the elimination of the old evil was neither swift nor smooth.
Why must we? It's only through Robert that I'm even aware there was an attempt at a sequel. It went unpublished and Tolkien himself seemed quite unhappy with it. I think it can be safely ignored as a bit of false history.
To have even read it, I consider a priviledge. But as an unpublished work I don't really take it into account. The Cult of Morgoth/Sauron(Or whatever it is the old man uncovers hints of) surviving past the death of the Great King(Aragorn) and perhaps instigating "orcish behavior" in Gondorian youths; is an interesting development. But I hardly think of it as settled or 'canon'. The good Professor was prone to change his mind, as well as his stories; as we see with Gondolin, Orc origins and reproduction, and Maeglin for instance. It seems like a very early draft/work in progress that we are simply lucky enough to glance at.
Another great In Deep Geek video. Thank you, Robert! The content of this one is as spot on as ever - with one exception: You say that Sam "sails to the undying lands himself, at the age of 102, to be reunited with Frodo there." But, of course, there will be no such reunion, no matter how much we may wish it were otherwise. All Sam will find In Eressëa (or in Aman) is the memory of Frodo, his tale preserved in story and song but remembered from personal experience only by Gandalf-Olorin and by the handful of Elves who met him in Middle-earth, such as Gildor Ingiorion, Glorfindel, Elrond, Galadriel and members of their respective retinues and households. Frodo himself will have been long dead. Tolkien makes it clear in his letters [154, 246, 325] that there is no prolonged life for mortals across the Sea, just the potential to find peace. Bear in mind, too, that Frodo was 12 years older than Sam, and he'd been grievously and permanently "wounded with knife, sting and tooth, and a long burden." Tolkien also writes that a mortal's natural life would, in fact, be shortened by virtue of being in the home of the immortals; as it says in the History of Middle-earth book "Morgoth's Ring", a mortal in the Blessed Realm "would wither even as a moth in a flame too bright".
Besides becoming Thain, Pippin also had a family of his own. He married a hobbit from Long Cleeve named Diamond, and they had a son who they named after Faramir.
This video sounds scarily like Robert himself is closing this chapter on the channel, that wouldn't be great. Another amazing video from this man, thank you Sir.
I know that Tolkien famously hated allegory, but its themes of dwindling magic and of things being lost which can never be recovered with every major change in the world really are reminiscent of two things to me. The first is, of course, WW1. That's a common theory. It was a war unlike any war that had been seen before that in so many ways and the changes it made to culture, society, and government were immense. It was, in many ways, the final transition from the high-minded chivalric ideas of the Medieval and Renaissance ages to the more pragmatic modern era. It's easy to see why Tolkien might have viewed that as something akin to the Ring being destroyed and the last of the magic from the Elder Days fading away. But, a personal theory that I have not heard elsewhere (though others have probably come up with it unbeknownst to me) is that of growing up. As the world leaves its infancy and, ultimately, its childhood, that imagination and magic fades away. Elves and Dragons and Hobbits are replaced with Men. Fantasy is replaced with mundane reality. It is very akin to losing of one's innocence and childlike wonder of the world. At least, to me.
Science is called a reductive profession. If you close your eyes and ears, you will have a difficult time understanding what's going on around you. There will be a time when we open up again, in fact ten years ago saying that trees are communicating with each other was a ridiculous proposition, today science proofed it by itself. Nevertheless, it's a very long way to go before we manage to see and listen again, instead of talking down everything we can't imagine. 😉
@@jantjarks7946 No, there won't be. That was Weezact's whole point, that we _can't_ regain what's been lost. Childhood won't ever come back, innocence won't ever come back. Things change, that's just how it is. They can't change back no matter how much we might wish otherwise.
I have always believed that we are in “Middle Earth.” Hobbits and Elves and Dwarves still exist, they are just very rare and hard to see. Perhaps, as Tolkien hinted at, they have receded into the corners of our imaginations-THAT’S where we see them…however, that doesn’t make them any less ‘real.” LOVE your channel, Robert!
U should look up petrified titans as mountains that will open ur mind a bit . Evidence has been there all along. Mesas are giant trees that were cut down
Mesas are absolutely not the stumps of giant fossilized trees. Just because you don't understand medium-basic hydrogeology doesn't mean you get to claim even less comprehendible "solutions".
The Fourth Age is like finally getting tickets to a hit Broadway show only to find out it's nothing but understudies. Like, where's Galadriel? The Ents? What is this, a Middle-Earth TRIBUTE BAND???
The way Middle Earth changed after Sauron's downfall always reminds me of a scene from the Fellowship of the Ring movie where Frodo and Sam are watching a procession of elves heading to the Grey Havens and Sam comments on how it makes him sad. The passing of of so many peoples and magical places from the world made it a smaller, less wondrous place.
Robert, something I want to say is how wonderfully timed your videos are. Really thoughtful editing, but I'm always happy to give up 10ish minutes to watch art drift around, and you answer a question about Tolkein's trivia. Too much longer, I'd probably avoid. But a real pleasure to give you my eyes and ears for about 10 minutes once or twice a week.
"... like Sam, took up a position of responsibility as Master of Buckland". Merry inherited the title of Master of Buckland when his father died and Pippin inherited the thainship of the Shire when his father abdicated. By contrast, Sam made the transition from Hobbit peasantry to gentry through his own heroism and popular support.
You said something at the end of the video that quite frankly hadnt occurred to me before. Whereas Gandalf sailed to the undying lands, Radigast stayed in Middle Earth, immersed in nature. So an immortal maier continued to be a benevolently watchful presence in Middle for all its subsequent ages. I have to wonder if Tolkien wouldve included Radigast in his subsequent story that he never finished working of.
I always felt Merry and Pippin would have remembered that the Entwives might be in the forests around the Shire. Sam, as a gardener, would gladly have joined the quest and Radagast would be an entertaining leader.
They are also the reverse in that there is nothing positive about GOT. It's a celebration of man's worst traits and none of the characters are really loveable in any way. It shouldn't even be uttered in the same breath as Lord of the Rings.
@djunior874 you must be fun at parties. Some of the characters are good. It's just a more complex character study than the surface level fantasy character tropes that is lotr. I like both btw.
1:12 One point of contention, Sam & Rosie didn't move into Bag End after Frodo left for the Undying Lands. They moved in immediately after being married and lived there with Frodo until his departure from Middle Earth. Sam was torn, wanting to get married but also wanting to live with his Mr. Frodo. When Frodo found out he simply invited Sam and his family to move in with him saying that there was room enough in Bag End for as large a family as he could wish for. That's the one thing that really, really bugged me about the end of the movie. They got the line right, "I'm back," but they showed Sam returning home from the Grey Havens to a different house when he should have returned to Bag End!
Tolkien's fading theme is according to his own admission his attempt to express an emotion through his writing he had felt all his life, which he described as moving him "supremely" and which he called a "heart-wracking sense of the vanished past" Its something I think so many people find relateable, and to that end I think he succeeded.
Is there any fantasy series that's a reverse of every other known property in that suddenly magical creatures begin showing up more and more frequently? I feel like every series the magic is slowly fading.
It isn't exactly what you're describing but the Magic Time trilogy starts in modern day (circa 2000) and technology suddenly stops working and supernatural elements take over. "Metal wings will fail, leather ones prevail." Or at least in North America, where the books take place. The first book is so-so but book 2 and 3 were very enjoyable.
It's not really a novel series, but there's Shadowrun RPG. The basis of that is that it starts as the normal modern world, then magic bursts form, mythical creatures reawaken, and many humans transform into metahumans (elves, dwarves, orcs, etc). All while still keeping near-futuristic technology like Cybernetics, AI, drones, etc. There's a bunch of novels that people have written based in the setting, but none have the quality, or scale, of the classic fantasy novels.
It ties in with literary transmission in the Early Medieval era. I'm sure it was inspired by things like the Red Book of Hergest and the White Book of Rhydderch, notable documents from Wales which ensured the survival of old stories and poetry now constitutiong the Mabinogion (which includes early Arthurian material).
It's interesting to think that Saruon, and Mordor's War of the Ring was "Magic's" last burst. One could look at it as, while Saruon original wanted to dominant the world, it's an interesting idea to think that he wanted to preserve the world of magic, and to do so, he needed his ring, The One Ring, to do it. As mentioned in the video, the aftermath of the war is basically the 4th Age, an age of decline and fading. After the war, all magical things fade to nothing but the remnants of memories.
I imagine then that the Humanity of the Fourth Age would be a mixture of civilization + barbarism. Similar to the Hyborian age of Conan the Barbarian. Fantastic realms, but full of wars/violence. Humanity no longer had a Sauron as an enemy, man became the Enemy of Man. That's the "satiability of good" and withering of other races. That's what Leto II - God Emperor of Dune - said that The human being always says to seek peace and tranquility, but human nature is violent and conflicted. Always planting the seeds of War: "When I set out to lead humanity along my Golden Path, I promised you a lesson that even their bones would remember. I know a deep pattern that humans deny with their words, even if your actions confirm it. They say they seek security and stillness, that condition to which call peace. And even as they speak, they create the seeds of unrest and violence. if they find your quiet security, feel bad in it. How tedious they think it is. Look at them now. look at what they do as I record these words. Oh! I have given you ages of enforced tranquility that go on in spite of every effort to plunge into chaos"
"Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days."
This would've been revealed to us better in Tolkien's sequel book series to the Lord of the Rings known as the "New Shadow" which would see the return of the great evils presented to the free people of Middle-Earth a century or so back, a story without most of the main cast. A video on that would be a great video!
I always wondered if the "Blue Wizards" mentioned once in the Lord of the Rings and lightly elaborated on, may have played a larger part in the "New Shadow" story, either as allies or enemies.
Pretty much so. An engaging story must have conflict. When the only opposing force was completely destroyed, all remaining components lived happily thereafter. It would be interesting to see the dynamics though, how the orcs organized themselves in more detail rather than just the quick conclusion "faded away"
@@General12th Very true - but the things that made Middle Earth special are quite absent in our world. That doesn't mean there's nothing making our world special. It's just different. And... probably a lot safer in most parts of the world.
Hi Robert, great video as usual ! What about a video explaining the Council of Elrond from the very beginning (starting point could be when all Middle-Earth is summoned for instance) and in deep geek detail? I looked it up on youtube and it seems like none's covered this topic and its intricacies yet.
2:17 "he sailed to the Undying Lands to be reunited with Frodo there" ...but, is this true? Was it on this channel, or on another, which said that a mortal (Man, Hobbit) who got to the Undying Lands would burst from the power of it all within a couple of months? That the Undying Lands are not the source of deathless immortality for mortals, but rather an unchanging solace for immortal races who don't feel great seeing everything around them pass away?
In Appendix B at the end of The Return of the King, Tolkien writes: "1482 [the year in Shire reckoning]: Death of Mistress Rose, wife of Master Samwise, on Mid-year's Day. On September 22 Master Samwise rides out from Bag End. He comes to the Tower Hills, and is last seen by [his daughter] Elanor, to whom he gives the Red Book afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is handed down from Elanor that *Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens, and passed over the Sea, last of the Ring-bearers.* "
It's the Valar, the Maiar, and the elves there that make it undying. But that cannot change the Doom of Men that Eru ordained. All four mortals that were let in (Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Gimli) were at the end of their lives when they got there. It was a reward to them to pass blissfully there. Sadly, Frodo was long gone when Sam got there. He was taken to be given a bit more time and a painless passing.
@@arnorrian1 It seems heavily implied that the mortals who went there lived a lot longer. Even if they would still die, Valinor is said to rejuvenate the body and the soul. Tolkien himself even alluded to the idea that they wouldn't just die of natural causes per se, but rather would reach a point where they would "of their own free will" choose to die and move to the next place. While it isn't explicitly stated by Tolkien (or I haven't found it), it is also very much implied that Sam did reunite with Frodo. And there's no reason to think he didn't since Frodo would have been a little over 100 by the time Sam sailed west, which isn't close to the oldest hobbits can reach naturally.
@@Kelnx Frodo was ill and broken from the morgul blade poisoning, Shelob's sting, and the ordeal of carrying the ring. We don't know exactly how long he lived on Tol Eresseä, or whether Sam found him alive. We have no accounts of Valinor at all after the departure of the Noldor.
Midgard is more closely translated as "middle enclosure", as "gard" suggest something surrounded by walls, fences, or other physical form separation. Kinda like Isengard. Middle-Earth is inspired by later middle-english translations of the word Midgard.
Hey there. I love your channel very much. I appreciate all the work you put in. My only complaint is that I’ve watched them all and need more content. Keep up the great work. 😁😁😁
Yeah, we don't know whether the Ents ever found the Entwives or not. That is a supposition based on Tolkien's doubts - but he left it up to our imaginations. This is a great channel, but there's a tendency to nail down likelihoods as solid facts in the canon - and surely that is not right. The magic of Tolkien's sprawling imagination is that he leaves gaps in it for the reader to make up their mind. Please don't shut those gaps off for your viewers who are just learning their way through the legendarium.
A huge common theme among Tolkien's works is the importance of letting go. Life naturally changes and withers, but without that withering and changing, nothing new can be created. Places like Rivendell and Lothlorien were frequently described as being both stuck in and out of time. We are meant to die - even the Elves, in their own way. In Tolkien's work, nothing good ever comes of clinging to the past, yet it's also important to remember it. Kind of a strange message to come from Tolkien, a man who himself was very conservative in life, if you think about it.
Something I only realised relatively recently is how much there is in common between the "trajectories" of the LotR and Dark Souls universes. With both we have a "cycling" where newer characters are like echoes of older, half forgotten ones, and always the newer tree, the newer evil power, the newer alliance, the newer light, is smaller and less magnificent than its predecessor. And in both universes this process of "recurrence in ever lesser forms" ends with the age of men. Except that in Dark Souls there's a deep but obscure connection between humanity and darkness, so that the age of men amounts to a sort of heat death. Whereas in LotR the age of men merges with history as we know it, and becomes the real world.
RoP makes me wonder how public would react if THE BIBLE got the Amazon prime adaptation treatment n turned Jesus into an aggressive Chinese man and filled it with ccp talking points.. sounds fun
@@jenniedarling3710 I love it lol If I got appointed as showrunner I’d create a super team of 7 exciting Jesus’ like in tallegega nights kinda or the buddy Christ They’d basically be a group of angelic beings trying to help but would probably b a bit of a dark comedy as over n over they were thwarted by nonsense I prefer Iesa myself or the ginger Jesus of AH
I know Gimli was just allowed into Valinor with Legolas, but I will never not be amused by the idea that Legolas snuck him in under his coat, Looney-tunes style
Well, despite claims to the contrary, the Valar really did seem clueless enough to fall for that.
I just had a flashback to a particularly terrible moment in the _Obi-Wan_ Disney+ series.
I think the specific words in the Appendices suggest that Gimli's fate was not known for sure. That it is believed he MAY have traveled west with Legolas, though it mentions that it would be weird both for a Dwarf to abandon Middle-Earth and the wealth and crafts there as well as weird for the Valar to welcome them to Valinor (that's where it suggests that Galadriel may have put in a good word for him).
Now, since the appendices are, ostensibly, written by the Hobbits of the Fellowship (and possibly Sam's daughter), it could just be that they don't KNOW what happened to him. Or maybe Tolkien never made up his mind. I'm not sure. It seems weird that the Valar wouldn't invite a Dwarf to the undying lands since the Dwarves were literally made by Aule. So, I like to think that he went with Legolas and was welcomed freely, without Galadriel needing to intervene on his behalf. After all, he WAS a hero.
@@weezact7 - Galadriel may have had a word with Aule about allowing Gimli to meet him.
They sailed to Tol Eressea, the Lonely Isle, where the Elves went, within far sight of Valinor. No one was ever allowed back to the land of the Valar, which had been closed to all.
The cleverest thing Tolkien did was to populate Middle Earth with fantastical races and creatures that were “fading”, which invokes a deep sense of nostalgia in the reader. Whenever we encounter a magical being like an elf or a dwarf or a dragon, Tolkien always reminds the reader that it’s leaving the world or somehow becoming scarce. That’s the hook he uses to trigger nostalgia and make people feel close to the novels.
Correct!! A consummate writer!! Excellence in the genre, and spoiling us as no other writer could!!
Interesting point. I never thought about it like that. It's true though. Galadriel's monologue at 'Fellowship of the Ring' plays right into that. As viewer, you immediately yearn for those 'times gone by' and fear the uncertain and potentially violent future.
Yes. It really makes you want to know more about their origins. Starting a story at the end makes you curious about its beginning.
Personally I thought that was a horrible idea as it's the same reason why he never wrote anything after lotr.
Do to all conflicts would be between humans and how the world became gray and dull, Tolkien even mentions how he couldn't gather inspiration to write another story after humans inherited the planet.
It's the main reason that one guy i forget his name said he plagiarized his story. His main point was Tolkien wrote himself into a corner that he would never get out of, where he wouldnt be able to further the worlds lore. not his exact quote
Sadly it became a tired cliche in the fantasy genre.
I found it unbelievably sweet Mary and pippin were buried beside aragon. Brought a lil tear to my eye
Who is Mary? Do you mean Merry? Short for Meriadoc. As Pippin was short for Peregrin.
@@Demun1649 I think we all understood what was meant
@@jonnnnniej I agree. The people who have only watched the films, and never read a BOOK. You know the ones, watch a film and don't care about what is wrong, or added, or missing. The low IQ goldfish. Those ones.
@@Demun1649really?.....😑
Mary and Peter were buried beside Alan Thornton?
They all lived happily ever after till the end of their days
Except maybe Arwen. It's not explicitly stated anywhere that I can recall that the Valar gave her the choice of the Half-Elves (or, indeed, ever communicated with her at all). She wasn't happy when Aragorn decided to lay down and die like the old Numenorean kings. So she left her family behind and basically committed suicide in Lothlorien.
@@daniels7907 IIRC, Elrond communicated the choice of the Half--Elves or human existence to her, she made her choice and when Aragon died there was no way back for her to the Undying Lands since Cirdan had already left Middle Earth.
@@daniels7907 I believe that choice of hers is what she gives in gift to Frodo, to allow him passage to Elvenhome. Or, at least; in giving him her place on one of the ships, she makes her choice.
@@daniels7907 And everyone was like "well we told you so". In real life, the only old people that were so deeply fixated on their partners were those who were not really on good terms with their children. But as far as we know, Arwen had a son and several daughters, and its very likely that at the time of Aragorn´s death, she was already a great-grandma, so she surely had no scarcity of close family members some of whom lived with her almost as long as Aragorn did...
@@Zzyzx-- - Elrond is not one of the Valar. It's not his call. Indeed, it's not even really indicated that Arwen had aged enough, or even aged at all, such that she would have to die just because Aragorn did. In general, your spouse dying doesn't mean that you must immediately follow. Although Tolkien did seem disturbingly enamored with the idea.
One of the things that always occurs to me about Sam is that he was made to love. Frodo. The Shire. Rosie. All things. Sam was presented as simple, but his understanding was broad.
Luv me Rosie
Luv me Shire
Luv me Frodo
‘Ate Orcs
‘Ate Sauron
‘Ate Gollum
Simple as
I've never thought about it like that.
I like it.
@@TheUltimegaMan 13 children later "Luv me Rosie long time"
@@TheUltimegaMan And he 'ate the mess Bill left on me rug
You heard him!
You forgot the po-tay-toes!
There’s something very somber about all the changes early in the 4th age. Great video as always, Robert.
To me this fading of the fantastical was always the thing I disliked the most about Tolkiens works. Especially for things which vanished without proper reason like the dwarves.
I know why Tolkien did it this way, I understand his perspective. But it goes against my own perspective of the world. Because the world never diminishes in complexity, quite the contrary.
Sure singular things can be lost, but always with a proper reason. And given enough time, new equally complex things evolve to take their place.
This wasn't Tolkiens perspective as his was a crafted world. And like every crafted object it gets worn out with time. Yet here my perspective is too different as I said
@@chrisfraser5088 it’s pretty depressing really.
@@hangebza6625 To be fair to Tolkien, it's not so much that the world diminished in complexity rather the magic of things receded beyond our view. In a way it's comparable to how one day - many billions of years, granted - only the stars of our local group of galaxies will be visible. It will seem to those that live then that the Universe only consists of a handful of galaxies. If records of now somehow still persisted, it would seem to those in the far future that the Universe lost unfathomable complexity yet in reality that complexity simply receded beyond knowing.
@@hangebza6625 But if we look at it from the broader perspective Middle Earth was meant for humans since the beginning, humans were "chosen" by the God, they were the only beings whose soul were taken by the God after they died. Elves and wizards were there to guide humans and protect them or rather help them fight forces of evil and when humans were independent on their own and whem there were no evil lords in Middle Earth elves and wizards left. Dwarves were never part of the God's plan, they were created behind his back by one of the Valar, God accepted them, but when the time has come they had to leave everything to humans as God has planned.
So nothing really vanished without a reason, it was all God's will ;p we don't know why he was taking human souls or why they were him main focus, but we know that Middle Earth was for them, so other races had to go.
@@cpt.flamer7184 Incorrect. Men and elves were supposed to live alongside the Valar. The Marring and separation and fading were all down to Melkor's influence and (to a small degree) the Valar's reluctance to commit to decisive action. Yes, this was accounted for and considered, but intention isn't the same thing as foreknowledge of the outcome.
"This is said because the invitation given to the Eldar to remove to Valinor and live unendangered by Melkor was not in fact according to the design of Eru. It arose from anxiety, and it might be said from failure in trust of Eru, from anxiety and fear of Melkor, and the decision of the Eldar to accept the invitation was due to the overwhelming effect of their contact, while still in their inexperienced youth, with the bliss of Aman and the beauty and majesty of the Valar. It had disastrous consequences in diminishing the Elves of Middle-earth and so depriving Men of a large measure of the intended help and teaching of their 'elder brethren’, and exposing them more dangerously to the power and deceits of Melkor. Also since it was in fact alien to the nature of the Elves to live under protection in Aman, and not (as was intended) in Middle-earth, one consequence was the revolt of the Ñoldor."
- Parma Eldalamberon No. 17
Eru intended for men and elves to live alongside the Valar and for all of Arda to be like Valinor. He knew, being omnipotent, that Melkor would attempt to disrupt the Music and factored it into His intentions so that nothing Melkor would ever do could pervert the nature of the Music, only reinforce it, but this isn't the same thing as what was intended.
And in the End the original intention shall be made manifest and Arda will be made grander than it ever was.
It's pretty saddening that all magic began passing from the world. Sauron was awful but his presence was also keeping other wonderous magical elements present in Middle Earth. After him it becomes more like a normal world. Which is kind of a bummer.
Sam plowed more than his garden
He spread his seed in more ways than one
There was more than just Galadriel's dirt in his flowerpot.
Can’t tell which is more fertile, the shire or his wife
Sam’s garden wasn’t the only thing fertile AF 😉
Thanks dude... now I have to clean coffee off my computer.....lol
13 children Samwise? The rabbits are looking at you in amazement.
Sam was a gardener, after all. Plant and tend. 🙃
Poor Rosie.
Not so unthinkable, especially to an Englishman like Tolkien who would recall that King George III and Queen Charlotte produced *15* children, beating out Sam and Rosie.
@@Valkanna.Nublet You took the words out of my mouth! I hope he was as devoted to her as he was to Frodo!
@@thing_under_the_stairs - Well, Sam didn't sail West until after she had died of old age. So it's not like their marriage was cut short. They seem to have enjoyed a good life.
There is a grim note in _Unfinished Tales_ about the destiny of the Hobbits: "The much later dwindling of Hobbits must be due to a change in their state and way of life; they became a fugitive and secret people, driven (as Men, the Big Folk, became more and more numerous, usurping the more fertile and habitable lands) to refuge in forest or wilderness: a wandering and poor folk, forgetful of their arts, living a precarious life absorbed in the search for food, and fearful of being seen."
Somehow, the last of them ended up in Indonesia.
The animated Return of the King film suggests in a very straightforward manner that hobbits simply evolved into men. It states that because of Merry and Pippin’s drinking of the magical Ent water that made them grow taller, their children were born bigger than usual hobbit size and that each generation of their descendants got taller and taller.
@@NoneofYourBusiness667 I like that headcanon, however, it's not really supported in the actual writing. Even if Merry and Pippin's children were supernaturally large, that's only two families out of hundreds, maybe thousands. It's unlikely it would have an effect on the race as a whole. Furthermore, in the Hobbit, Tolkien describes Hobbits as still existing in the world, just being very rare and furtive. This suggests that Hobbits are one of the few (possibly the only) "magical" creatures in the Legendarium to remain in our world more or less unchanged until the present day.
The Elves have likely all faded away to spirits or banshees. The Dwarves might still be around. It's not specified when their people "failed", but because Tolkien talks about it in the past tense, we can assume they are none present in the modern day. Even if there are, they are so reclusive and deeply entrenched in their hidden halls that they may as well not exist. Everything else either explicitly died out or faded away.
I like to believe Hobbits simply intermarried with humans over the millennia. Same for the dwarves who stayed on the surface. Same for the orcs who weren't slaughtered immediately. And so the strength and hardiness of all three races is preserved in the legacy of humanity.
So they became the weird "hobbitesque" things from the failed rings of power series?
Damn Merry and Pippin got buried next to the King? even someone without knowledge of LotR and those characters roles would instantly realize that thats a huge deal!
What's an even bigger deal is joining elves on their journey to the Undying Lands.
I'd just finished a long-overdue return to the series, and the ending after The Scouring of the Shire surprised me.
Story time: I'd been given the nickname "Samwise" in the Scouts because the movies had just come out and I was *that Scout* who always overpacked on the cookware and food and made sure that everyone ate well.
Anywho, years go by, I became a dad and named my youngest "Daisy". I return to LOTR and re-learn that Samwise Gamgee did the same for one of his own daughters.
Life imitates art sometimes.
It's hard for an old man like me to imagine that someone who was in the Scouts when the movies came out now has children of their own... Nice that Tolkien's work is still remembered and read.
@MyName-tb9oz It's wild to realize that those films are twenty-something years old.
@@SamwiseOutdoors that can't be right. Twenty years ago was 1980. Maybe '85, latest...
@@MyName-tb9oz Big same.
All I remember was showing the Marine Corps recruiter pictures of the inside of my knee from my knee surgery before firing up my Zune to listen to Streetlight Manifesto. It's still 2006, right?
Man, I love this channel so much! Almost every video I've watched so far was HIGHLY entertaining. Thank you for creating these Videos, In Deep Geek! : )
Olorin in Valinor centuries later: …
…
“OH MY ERU WE FORGOT RADAGAST”
😂😂😅
Eru - "NO, I DID NOT. HE IS WHERE HE BELONGS - AS FAR FROM THE REST OF US AS MAY BE!"
He is chilling with Tom
Radagast kept consuming mushrooms and discovered some "weeds"
Lmao
I've read and re-read all of Tolkien's works over many many years and my views on things have shifted and evolved as I have grown older. I had a point to make, but I've forgotten it.
World still seems unfinished since I don’t know what Aragorn’s tax policy was
- Man who has only finished 3/4 of his own series
😂 👍
Aragorn's tax policy is undiscussed but it can be assumed it's a relatively normal (European) medieval/pre-medieval flat percentage. Early European medieval tax would have been about 2% of their lands/properties value
@@thor.halsliunlike today (1/3 of your salary) 😂
10%
I know this is a joke, but that wasn't his point. The point was that different writers prioritize different things. Although he personally wants to know Aragorn's tax policy, that wasn't Tokien's priority (and that's ok).
He also idolizes Tolkien and rereads all the books every few years.
Edit: I'm clarifying this because a lot of people seem to misconstrue that quote into GRR Martin disliking Tolkien.
Certainly we must consider also The New Shadow, that unpublished fragment which tells us at least that the elimination of the old evil was neither swift nor smooth.
Why must we? It's only through Robert that I'm even aware there was an attempt at a sequel. It went unpublished and Tolkien himself seemed quite unhappy with it. I think it can be safely ignored as a bit of false history.
To have even read it, I consider a priviledge. But as an unpublished work I don't really take it into account. The Cult of Morgoth/Sauron(Or whatever it is the old man uncovers hints of) surviving past the death of the Great King(Aragorn) and perhaps instigating "orcish behavior" in Gondorian youths; is an interesting development. But I hardly think of it as settled or 'canon'. The good Professor was prone to change his mind, as well as his stories; as we see with Gondolin, Orc origins and reproduction, and Maeglin for instance. It seems like a very early draft/work in progress that we are simply lucky enough to glance at.
Tolkien seemed to prefer a more epic scale storytelling. The New Shadow would have been more of an intrigue kind of story from what we know of it.
@@Knight-In-Green Alas for the fall of Maeglin. He was unprepared to deal with Morgoth personally.
@@dansharp2860 It's published in The Peoples of Middle-Earth, volume XII of The History of Middle-Earth.
Another great In Deep Geek video. Thank you, Robert!
The content of this one is as spot on as ever - with one exception:
You say that Sam "sails to the undying lands himself, at the age of 102, to be reunited with Frodo there." But, of course, there will be no such reunion, no matter how much we may wish it were otherwise. All Sam will find In Eressëa (or in Aman) is the memory of Frodo, his tale preserved in story and song but remembered from personal experience only by Gandalf-Olorin and by the handful of Elves who met him in Middle-earth, such as Gildor Ingiorion, Glorfindel, Elrond, Galadriel and members of their respective retinues and households. Frodo himself will have been long dead. Tolkien makes it clear in his letters [154, 246, 325] that there is no prolonged life for mortals across the Sea, just the potential to find peace. Bear in mind, too, that Frodo was 12 years older than Sam, and he'd been grievously and permanently "wounded with knife, sting and tooth, and a long burden." Tolkien also writes that a mortal's natural life would, in fact, be shortened by virtue of being in the home of the immortals; as it says in the History of Middle-earth book "Morgoth's Ring", a mortal in the Blessed Realm "would wither even as a moth in a flame too bright".
Just recently subscribed to this channel so rhis is well-timed!
I love this channel! Robert is amazing
Besides becoming Thain, Pippin also had a family of his own. He married a hobbit from Long Cleeve named Diamond, and they had a son who they named after Faramir.
This video sounds scarily like Robert himself is closing this chapter on the channel, that wouldn't be great. Another amazing video from this man, thank you Sir.
I know that Tolkien famously hated allegory, but its themes of dwindling magic and of things being lost which can never be recovered with every major change in the world really are reminiscent of two things to me.
The first is, of course, WW1. That's a common theory. It was a war unlike any war that had been seen before that in so many ways and the changes it made to culture, society, and government were immense. It was, in many ways, the final transition from the high-minded chivalric ideas of the Medieval and Renaissance ages to the more pragmatic modern era. It's easy to see why Tolkien might have viewed that as something akin to the Ring being destroyed and the last of the magic from the Elder Days fading away.
But, a personal theory that I have not heard elsewhere (though others have probably come up with it unbeknownst to me) is that of growing up. As the world leaves its infancy and, ultimately, its childhood, that imagination and magic fades away. Elves and Dragons and Hobbits are replaced with Men. Fantasy is replaced with mundane reality. It is very akin to losing of one's innocence and childlike wonder of the world. At least, to me.
Science is called a reductive profession. If you close your eyes and ears, you will have a difficult time understanding what's going on around you.
There will be a time when we open up again, in fact ten years ago saying that trees are communicating with each other was a ridiculous proposition, today science proofed it by itself.
Nevertheless, it's a very long way to go before we manage to see and listen again, instead of talking down everything we can't imagine.
😉
@@jantjarks7946
No, there won't be.
That was Weezact's whole point, that we _can't_ regain what's been lost. Childhood won't ever come back, innocence won't ever come back. Things change, that's just how it is. They can't change back no matter how much we might wish otherwise.
@@stickiedmin6508 Keep your eyes and ears closed then. 😉
@@jantjarks7946
What is it you think I'm closed off from?
@@stickiedmin6508 The universe.
I have always believed that we are in “Middle Earth.” Hobbits and Elves and Dwarves still exist, they are just very rare and hard to see. Perhaps, as Tolkien hinted at, they have receded into the corners of our imaginations-THAT’S where we see them…however, that doesn’t make them any less ‘real.” LOVE your channel, Robert!
Tolkien made it clear that this is middle earth and his stories were supposed to be our lost history.
@@ThePresident001 That’s right! Thanks for the reminder. I now remember having read that somewhere in the past.
U should look up petrified titans as mountains that will open ur mind a bit . Evidence has been there all along. Mesas are giant trees that were cut down
No...the elves were denisovans, orcs were neanderthals, hobbits were florilisian from malaysia and annunaki were the valars...
Mesas are absolutely not the stumps of giant fossilized trees. Just because you don't understand medium-basic hydrogeology doesn't mean you get to claim even less comprehendible "solutions".
The Fourth Age is like finally getting tickets to a hit Broadway show only to find out it's nothing but understudies. Like, where's Galadriel? The Ents? What is this, a Middle-Earth TRIBUTE BAND???
See: Evermore Park, R.I.P.
The way Middle Earth changed after Sauron's downfall always reminds me of a scene from the Fellowship of the Ring movie where Frodo and Sam are watching a procession of elves heading to the Grey Havens and Sam comments on how it makes him sad. The passing of of so many peoples and magical places from the world made it a smaller, less wondrous place.
I got chills at the end of this one, Robert. You do an amazing job. Thank you.
Interesting content, thanks in advance for the work
Robert, something I want to say is how wonderfully timed your videos are. Really thoughtful editing, but I'm always happy to give up 10ish minutes to watch art drift around, and you answer a question about Tolkein's trivia. Too much longer, I'd probably avoid. But a real pleasure to give you my eyes and ears for about 10 minutes once or twice a week.
I'd imagine that Tom Bombadil was around through all of that. I can't really imagine him fading away like the rest of the magical beings.
"... like Sam, took up a position of responsibility as Master of Buckland". Merry inherited the title of Master of Buckland when his father died and Pippin inherited the thainship of the Shire when his father abdicated. By contrast, Sam made the transition from Hobbit peasantry to gentry through his own heroism and popular support.
I would've absolutely loved to see what rivendell looked like as it faded into nature
I'm honestly surprised nobody went to live there!!!
Excellent video, the ushering in of the 4th age was bittersweet as it saw the decline of much of what we associate with middle earth.
You said something at the end of the video that quite frankly hadnt occurred to me before. Whereas Gandalf sailed to the undying lands, Radigast stayed in Middle Earth, immersed in nature. So an immortal maier continued to be a benevolently watchful presence in Middle for all its subsequent ages.
I have to wonder if Tolkien wouldve included Radigast in his subsequent story that he never finished working of.
I always felt Merry and Pippin would have remembered that the Entwives might be in the forests around the Shire. Sam, as a gardener, would gladly have joined the quest and Radagast would be an entertaining leader.
I love your final comment of the ending of the fourth age being like the ships going off into the distance. Thank you for your wonderful content!
Didn’t Tolkien later say that the west would have failed to defeat Sauron if not for the work of the blue wizards in the east?
I could have watched this for an hr or more. Fascinating and wonderful to watch mate.
Beautiful video. I like to think Tom Bombadil is still here, somewhere.
Did Aragorn eventually legalize the Halflings’ Leaf?
It's interesting how the world of lord of the rings in the end becomes like the middle ages without all the fantasy stuff.
Wow! What a beautiful video!
Great job, In Deep Geek!
LOTR and GOT are the reverse of each other. In LOTR the magic is dying out, in GOT the magic is suddenly coming back.
They are also the reverse in that there is nothing positive about GOT. It's a celebration of man's worst traits and none of the characters are really loveable in any way. It shouldn't even be uttered in the same breath as Lord of the Rings.
@djunior874 you must be fun at parties. Some of the characters are good. It's just a more complex character study than the surface level fantasy character tropes that is lotr.
I like both btw.
@@joshbracken5450GOT isn’t that deep. It’s just as predictable once you realize the mindset of the writer.
I’ve loved the story of middle earth since I was a teenager. This video made me smile, thank you.
Thank you for making videos, I love your chanel so much
I wonder if his descendants own the mysterious Gardiners Island in the hamptons where the largest bit of old growth forest in East still
Lives
1:12 One point of contention, Sam & Rosie didn't move into Bag End after Frodo left for the Undying Lands. They moved in immediately after being married and lived there with Frodo until his departure from Middle Earth. Sam was torn, wanting to get married but also wanting to live with his Mr. Frodo. When Frodo found out he simply invited Sam and his family to move in with him saying that there was room enough in Bag End for as large a family as he could wish for. That's the one thing that really, really bugged me about the end of the movie. They got the line right, "I'm back," but they showed Sam returning home from the Grey Havens to a different house when he should have returned to Bag End!
Not just that, but the ship Frodo leaves on is referred to as the last ship. Which means that Sam wouldn't have been able to join him.
@@katherinegraham3803 It's not the last ship in the book. Cirdan makes the last ship after Aragorn dies.
Not surprising. Sam gives off major bisexual energy. I bet the three of them had a grand old time.
Love your profile pic! 🇮🇱
Always one...
Tolkien's fading theme is according to his own admission his attempt to express an emotion through his writing he had felt all his life, which he described as moving him "supremely" and which he called a "heart-wracking sense of the vanished past"
Its something I think so many people find relateable, and to that end I think he succeeded.
Is there any fantasy series that's a reverse of every other known property in that suddenly magical creatures begin showing up more and more frequently? I feel like every series the magic is slowly fading.
Isn't that just low fantasy?
It isn't exactly what you're describing but the Magic Time trilogy starts in modern day (circa 2000) and technology suddenly stops working and supernatural elements take over. "Metal wings will fail, leather ones prevail." Or at least in North America, where the books take place. The first book is so-so but book 2 and 3 were very enjoyable.
That's because fantasy is a product of modernity, and one of the main aspects of modernity is the disenchantment of the world
It's not really a novel series, but there's Shadowrun RPG. The basis of that is that it starts as the normal modern world, then magic bursts form, mythical creatures reawaken, and many humans transform into metahumans (elves, dwarves, orcs, etc). All while still keeping near-futuristic technology like Cybernetics, AI, drones, etc.
There's a bunch of novels that people have written based in the setting, but none have the quality, or scale, of the classic fantasy novels.
In ASOIAF magic is on the uptrend
So glad I found this account. Your videos are just so greatly done.
I really like the part of him writing the book itself into the story, as if it came to us FROM Bag End.
It ties in with literary transmission in the Early Medieval era. I'm sure it was inspired by things like the Red Book of Hergest and the White Book of Rhydderch, notable documents from Wales which ensured the survival of old stories and poetry now constitutiong the Mabinogion (which includes early Arthurian material).
Great post - really enjoyed this - the art and images were excellent too :)
Hi Robert! Why did you delete so many videos from your channel? A lot of LOTR and Legends of Middle Earth videos have disappeared
He’s updating them
@@samuelleask1132 where did he mention that? I really want my legends of Middle earth videos back. I used to listen to these before falling asleep
@@Aaron-xx8fzI’m pretty sure he just unlisted them, with the video still there… just contact him asking for the direct links pledging your case?
I really enjoy how well written (and read!) your videos are. Thanks for the great content!
It feels like TERRY BROOKS "Shannara" series takes up where LORD OF THE RINGS leaves off. 📚📚📚
Kinda. The Shannara stories are all set in our far future, while Professor Tolkien's work is set in Earth's distant past.
@@stickiedmin6508 ohhh, you're 100% right! I forgot that. Been a mean, but read all of them. But yes, that's true. Okay so... it's way WAY after.
It's interesting to think that Saruon, and Mordor's War of the Ring was "Magic's" last burst. One could look at it as, while Saruon original wanted to dominant the world, it's an interesting idea to think that he wanted to preserve the world of magic, and to do so, he needed his ring, The One Ring, to do it. As mentioned in the video, the aftermath of the war is basically the 4th Age, an age of decline and fading. After the war, all magical things fade to nothing but the remnants of memories.
The last time I was this early, The Rings of Power still had an audience.
Thank you for doing this video. I knew bits and pieces of it but you summed it all up nicely!
I imagine then that the Humanity of the Fourth Age would be a mixture of civilization + barbarism. Similar to the Hyborian age of Conan the Barbarian. Fantastic realms, but full of wars/violence. Humanity no longer had a Sauron as an enemy, man became the Enemy of Man.
That's the "satiability of good" and withering of other races.
That's what Leto II - God Emperor of Dune - said that The human being always says to seek peace and tranquility, but human nature is violent and conflicted. Always planting the seeds of War:
"When I set out to lead humanity along my Golden Path, I promised you a lesson that even their bones would remember. I know a deep pattern that humans deny with their words, even if your actions confirm it. They say they seek security and stillness, that condition to which call peace. And even as they speak, they create the seeds of unrest and violence. if they find your quiet security, feel bad in it. How tedious they think it is. Look at them now. look at what they do as I record these words. Oh! I have given you ages of enforced tranquility that go on in spite of every effort to plunge into chaos"
Tolkien gave up on _The New Shadow_ because writing a story about human political intrigue quickly lost its appeal to him.
@@dlxmarks woulda been cool to dose JRR on some acid and show him Villleneuve's *God Emperor of Dune* released in 2029
@@archmage_of_the_aether Personally, I think Tolkien was more of a shroom guy, but he'd still be fun to trip with.
@@archmage_of_the_aether Tolkien is well known to have hated Dune. That would not be a fun trip.
"Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days."
Thanks for this!
This would've been revealed to us better in Tolkien's sequel book series to the Lord of the Rings known as the "New Shadow" which would see the return of the great evils presented to the free people of Middle-Earth a century or so back, a story without most of the main cast. A video on that would be a great video!
I’m pretty sure he made a video on that very subject not too long ago.
I read the snippet published in HoME a long time ago but I have this memory of feeling it would have had something to do with dark trees.
That video was done a couple of years back
Robert is slowly re-uploading old videos. He will likely get to his one on "The New Shadow" in the near future.
I always wondered if the "Blue Wizards" mentioned once in the Lord of the Rings and lightly elaborated on, may have played a larger part in the "New Shadow" story, either as allies or enemies.
Thank you so much for posting this you provided clarity understanding and room for more adventures your true professional!!!
Conclusion; middle earth became a dull and boring place
The magic was lost and faded away.
Victory comes at a cost. It always does. And they knew this would be the case. And yet, it was better than defeat.
Pretty much so. An engaging story must have conflict. When the only opposing force was completely destroyed, all remaining components lived happily thereafter. It would be interesting to see the dynamics though, how the orcs organized themselves in more detail rather than just the quick conclusion "faded away"
And yet, Middle Earth become our world, and despite the lack of magic, we are as far from dull and boring as one can imagine.
@@General12th Very true - but the things that made Middle Earth special are quite absent in our world.
That doesn't mean there's nothing making our world special. It's just different. And... probably a lot safer in most parts of the world.
Yes, but imagine how great it would be for the common folk, not having to worry about orcs, trolls, and werewolves terrorizing you.
I like to imagine Sam’s arrival in the Undying Lands as the Valar, Maiar, and eldest of the Eldar stand in awe before “the incorruptible”
best content
Beautiful video!
2:26 I thought Merry ended up on a plane that crash landed on an island with some other survivors…
Hi Robert, great video as usual ! What about a video explaining the Council of Elrond from the very beginning (starting point could be when all Middle-Earth is summoned for instance) and in deep geek detail? I looked it up on youtube and it seems like none's covered this topic and its intricacies yet.
Hi Robert, this is everyone
That was lovely and thought provoking video. Thank you.
I wonder what happened to Tom Bombadil?
He became the first doctor
@@bobstanley8376 And the last.
Wow! This video is complete masterpiece! Thank you.
Gardener? Sam became King of The Reach😂 It’s all coming together now
Until he and his entire family was burned by dragons
That was nice, just what I needed, thanks.
just read the appendices in book 3
I'd love an In Deep episode on magic humans in Middle Earth... there must have been some surely?
Well first, Aragon had to develop a tax policy...
The tariffs on Dwarven mithril must have been *insane!* 😁
I absolutely loved the way this was presented. Bravo.
No author will ever again approach the majesty of Professor Tolkien’s work
That is beautiful storytelling ❤
2:17 "he sailed to the Undying Lands to be reunited with Frodo there"
...but, is this true? Was it on this channel, or on another, which said that a mortal (Man, Hobbit) who got to the Undying Lands would burst from the power of it all within a couple of months? That the Undying Lands are not the source of deathless immortality for mortals, but rather an unchanging solace for immortal races who don't feel great seeing everything around them pass away?
In Appendix B at the end of The Return of the King, Tolkien writes:
"1482 [the year in Shire reckoning]: Death of Mistress Rose, wife of Master Samwise, on Mid-year's Day. On September 22 Master Samwise rides out from Bag End. He comes to the Tower Hills, and is last seen by [his daughter] Elanor, to whom he gives the Red Book afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is handed down from Elanor that *Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens, and passed over the Sea, last of the Ring-bearers.* "
It's the Valar, the Maiar, and the elves there that make it undying. But that cannot change the Doom of Men that Eru ordained. All four mortals that were let in (Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Gimli) were at the end of their lives when they got there. It was a reward to them to pass blissfully there.
Sadly, Frodo was long gone when Sam got there. He was taken to be given a bit more time and a painless passing.
@@arnorrian1, that’s a very wise view. Hadn’t quite thought of that but it meshes beautifully with all else Prof T told us. Nicely put.
@@arnorrian1 It seems heavily implied that the mortals who went there lived a lot longer. Even if they would still die, Valinor is said to rejuvenate the body and the soul. Tolkien himself even alluded to the idea that they wouldn't just die of natural causes per se, but rather would reach a point where they would "of their own free will" choose to die and move to the next place. While it isn't explicitly stated by Tolkien (or I haven't found it), it is also very much implied that Sam did reunite with Frodo. And there's no reason to think he didn't since Frodo would have been a little over 100 by the time Sam sailed west, which isn't close to the oldest hobbits can reach naturally.
@@Kelnx Frodo was ill and broken from the morgul blade poisoning, Shelob's sting, and the ordeal of carrying the ring. We don't know exactly how long he lived on Tol Eresseä, or whether Sam found him alive. We have no accounts of Valinor at all after the departure of the Noldor.
Midgard is more closely translated as "middle enclosure", as "gard" suggest something surrounded by walls, fences, or other physical form separation. Kinda like Isengard. Middle-Earth is inspired by later middle-english translations of the word Midgard.
You fw crecganford?
3:44 soon … hobbits on Smartphones
This is the best video on UA-cam.
7:13 he says the funny thing.
Hey there. I love your channel very much. I appreciate all the work you put in. My only complaint is that I’ve watched them all and need more content. Keep up the great work. 😁😁😁
I don't know for sure what ultimately happened after Lord of the Rings, but well after that came the Stone Age so it wasn't good.
Another great video. Thank you!
Are we living in the Fifth Age?
"I think we are in the 7th or possibly the 8th age". Robert has done a video about this
Whatever age we’re in, it’s certainly a shitty one.
Most excellent...thank you
Never been so early lol
Me neither.
She had something else to say...😮😂
Strangely satisfying, no?
Wonderful video that is surprisingly bitter sweet.
Yeah, we don't know whether the Ents ever found the Entwives or not. That is a supposition based on Tolkien's doubts - but he left it up to our imaginations. This is a great channel, but there's a tendency to nail down likelihoods as solid facts in the canon - and surely that is not right. The magic of Tolkien's sprawling imagination is that he leaves gaps in it for the reader to make up their mind. Please don't shut those gaps off for your viewers who are just learning their way through the legendarium.
Watch someone else
@@jcook693 😄😄😄
Very indepth and informative well done
They smoked a fat pipe of old toby
A huge common theme among Tolkien's works is the importance of letting go. Life naturally changes and withers, but without that withering and changing, nothing new can be created. Places like Rivendell and Lothlorien were frequently described as being both stuck in and out of time. We are meant to die - even the Elves, in their own way. In Tolkien's work, nothing good ever comes of clinging to the past, yet it's also important to remember it.
Kind of a strange message to come from Tolkien, a man who himself was very conservative in life, if you think about it.
Tom Bombadil ?
I read the Red Book every year, and with each reading's ending, I feel sad and bereft, like part of my heart is missing.
In deep GEEK 🤓
Something I only realised relatively recently is how much there is in common between the "trajectories" of the LotR and Dark Souls universes.
With both we have a "cycling" where newer characters are like echoes of older, half forgotten ones, and always the newer tree, the newer evil power, the newer alliance, the newer light, is smaller and less magnificent than its predecessor.
And in both universes this process of "recurrence in ever lesser forms" ends with the age of men. Except that in Dark Souls there's a deep but obscure connection between humanity and darkness, so that the age of men amounts to a sort of heat death. Whereas in LotR the age of men merges with history as we know it, and becomes the real world.
RoP makes me wonder how public would react if THE BIBLE got the Amazon prime adaptation treatment n turned Jesus into an aggressive Chinese man and filled it with ccp talking points.. sounds fun
A Chinese Jesus would say "I am the rice of life".
@@jenniedarling3710 I love it lol
If I got appointed as showrunner I’d create a super team of 7 exciting Jesus’ like in tallegega nights kinda or the buddy Christ
They’d basically be a group of angelic beings trying to help but would probably b a bit of a dark comedy as over n over they were thwarted by nonsense
I prefer Iesa myself or the ginger Jesus of AH
Thank you for continuing telling stories.