Responding to a Facebook Group Member
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- This video is in response to a post a member made on my FaceBook Group, "Applied Shotokan by Andy Allen". I came from this mindset 1-12 yrs ago so I feel I can speak with some authority on this misunderstanding of kata.
The OP...
"Something crucial in karate, especially within the JKA, becomes visible in kata. The turning, for example, from position 9 to 10 in Heian Shodan, or actually in all kata, is often executed as one continuous movement towards the gedan barai in zenkutsu dachi (step 10 in Heian Shodan).
What is very important is that during the turn, you quickly face the opponent frontally, and this happens in the middle of the rotation.
When moving from 9 to 10, there are essentially 2 movements:
A: A quick turn where the left hand is high near the right ear, and the right hand is low to protect the gedan area. This creates a split second for you to assess the upcoming attack.
B: To then reach step 10, you pull towards the belt with your right hand (Hiki te), generating energy for gedan barai and a strong step forward into Zenkutsu dachi.
All too often, this preparatory step A is missing, causing the entire technique in step 10 to become unsteady, weak, and slow.
Whether moving from 9 to 10, 1 to 2, or any other transition, this principle of preparation (or starting engine for the next phase of a step) MUST be present"
Indeed . Filled with red flags. A bit of a shame that some people still adhere to this as there is so much to learn in karate if you keep an open mind.
Some have accused me for being closed minded in my views. In reality, it was my willingness to consider other viewpoints that allowed me to break the shackles of 3k dogma and to evolve.
Great video, Andy! 100% agree. Thank you for taking the time to show whats actually going on as opposed to just disagreeing with his statements
Great vid, Like most I was told a load of BS by many instructors in my journey. Keep up the good work
Thank you!
On point! Osu!!
Great video Andy.
Thanks
Adversary maybe a better word than enemy.
Dancing on the third rail there...bravo.
NB: Trolling start (for fun)
Hikite IS for generating more power! Just think about it for a second, while pulling the opponent towards you, and your other hand is moving away from you. You then have more Joules behind your attacking hand, thanks to your pulling hand.. So it is to generate more power! :P
:Troll end
Great video Andy, and address a fact I hear way to often. Specially from high ranking black belts, who where thought the same story/lie from their masters/teachers.
Lol. Hikite 4Life!
Even when I was a white belt in High school and was learning my first kata, when I asked what we were doing, I was told that I was “closing my attacker, punching and closing his counter punch. I had been in a scuffle before and just couldn’t accept the explanation. As I approached my Dan grading, I thought that it would be revealed as a black belt. Faaa. Thanks to a book that had more practical explanations and the appendix with names like Abernethy and Patrick Mmcarthy did I realize that many of the old masters taught childrens bunkai. Thank you for the video.
yep, those are the two. Usually people with some understanding of wrestling or judo are able to teach kata applications in a much more logical way. Andy's YT is a great addition in this regard and I hope what he says here becomes more standard in karate teaching
Ahhh, that promise... "when you reach black belt it will be clear..."
Can you explain why you couldn't accept the explanation of closing your attacker?
It’s not that closing or trapping is not good, it was the context of using a hard block against a chudan reverse punch. It isn’t gonna happen that way in a thousand events (self protection). Many of the karate Bunkai that were taught were, well , pipe dreams or maybe for someone (a child) that could not be trusted with the real applications. The problem that I faced was that whoever taught my instructor did not understand the Kata, understanding the threat/ attack is the beginning of understanding the Kata. I bet I just opened a can of worms for some practitioners🧐
@@kbanghart mate first off - good question. You don't get to close in on your attacker. They will close for you. Nobody serious about harming you does so from a comfortable distance to give you time to get into a stance. They're in your space before you can decide if it was a genuine "do you have the time?" and that's what the kata address
I highly suggest this for context: ua-cam.com/video/n9zKCGSQKJ4/v-deo.html
#Hikite4ever
It will never die!
Karate is always on the defensive when validating itself as a martial art. Why? Kata. Too much kata practice, not enough application practice. In my school we spend about 90% of our time doing application.
That's the way it should be.
I'll admit I was taught the very same things as the commenter, in Shotokan, at the very beginning. I actively suppressed my disbelief, for pure fan-boy-ism, until people like you started to promote a more logical approach to traditional karate. The fun part, it's not even a "modern" approach, as the masters of old had already pointed out these things... but several "traditional" karatekas (that included me) often are not informed about the very "tradition" they (we) follow. That's why your work is so important.
Nowadays, when I enter in a "hiki-te for power" argument, I extend one limp arm in front of me, and with the other arm I PULL WITH ALL MY FRIGGING STRENGTH, repeatedly, in the most good looking, whiplash-sounding hiki-te. As I do this, I tell them to look or touch my extended arm, and see if they detect any power being generated in there.
The hikite debate will never die, will it? You just can't reason with them.
I think this was on point. It is weird to offer unsolicited advice to more experienced people but setting that aside the issue with this kata box mind set is that folks fail to realize that katas were a method to record the techniques. Clearly the techniques, their usage and practice came before there was a kata for it. This whole issue is the result of generations of learning kata without context. It basically forged another martial art that is also called karate but when it comes to application, live drills or even sparring ends up looking very different from the martial art embedded in the kata. The other thing to me is that the names of the technique already gives us information. "Hikite", drawing arm or pulling arm is a pretty clear thing. It is not power generating arm, energy generating arm or anything else. The name is already telling you what it does.
"forged another martial art". That's a great way to look at it. As far as hikite and its translation is concerned, it baffles me why so many people fail to recognize this. You can demonstrate it's true meaning and beat them over the head with it but they still cling on to what they know.
Kata is training gross motor movements. Some of it is good for self defence but not all of it
If it wasn’t important it would not be in the kata. The key isn’t to focus on the gross motor movements but the moves between them.
some thoughts of my own (not a karateka yet, but am a lifelong martial artist):
-enemy/opponent? I like the word "antagonist". You might be facing a good person having a bad day. In such a case they are not a perp/thug/enemy. And we avoid "sporting" associations.Antagonist is a currently hostile person(s) whom we need to pacify them either through de-escalaltion or through other means if necessary.
-hikite/surite: these are well known terms. They are the pulling and lifting/pushing hand rspectively. We use these terms almost every single class in judo.
-personally I have this sense that in most katas the number of antagonists is irrelevant. Even individual techniques are irrelevant once past the introductory level. Within the kata are principles which need to be learned and applied to multiple techniques and multiple situations.
-here is a link of Hirokazu Kanazawa (10th dan SKIF) demonstarting the bunkai. And would you look at that, it's a throw... In fact the various bunkai he shows makes a lot of sense.
ua-cam.com/video/OfVGs_ok6TA/v-deo.html
Hi Chris. I replied to a similar comment of yours on my Facebook group. I think this sort of bunkai is quite rudimentary. Blocking stepping punches, changing your grip, and applying a lock that isn't that effective is a trademark of the JKA and similar groups. There are more effective bunkai found in kata that can be used against resisting attackers outside the dojo. With your jujutsu background, it would be fun to train together.
@@AppliedShotokan indeed it would be fun! And I think I would get the better end of that exchange.