MkLeo (Pyra/Mythra) vs Zomba (ROB) - Ultimate Singles Winners Top 32 - Battle of BC 5
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Battle of BC 5, May 19th to 21st in Vancouver, BC Canada hosted in the Vancouver Convention Centre by Galint Gaming Inc.
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Fun fact, this is the first set Leo has ever lost to R.O.B in smash ultimate. Post quarantine his track record against r.o.b is absolutely insane, I only found before this set that he had dropped 6 games ever to r.o.b before this.
i mean he is SOOO familar with the matchup and never would get hit by laser or gyro like it was crazy compared to all the other zomba matches.
Aegis
@@austinroccaro2219 He 3-0d Zomba with Aegis before. There was definitely some adaptation on Zomba’s part
@@mercurysnake274 and aegis is still Leo’s worst character. He can’t clutch it out.
@@austinroccaro2219 just look at Shuton. He destroys ROB with mild difficulty
To people saying “give the aegis time”
It took leo like a month, maybe less, after jokers release to start dominating tournaments pre-quarantine. He’s been trying to make this aegis work for a year already.
I heard chuck nasty talking about this and he made a great point that when Leo picked up joker the game and meta where still nearly in their infancy. Picking up a new character now means you have nearly 5 years of meta game grinding to catch up on. People know how the game works and how their characters work considerably better now so picking up a new character will take more time to master.
I think it’s an Interesting point to consider at least
No amount of aegis optimization or techs will save her horrendous recovery Leo basically has to somehow stop getting hit off stage to win (impossible)
Even the Byleth took well over a year of pure dedication to make it to the top, and now there are like 3x the number of top players, and each top player is better than all the rest before..
@@robertduffin1 This reasoning is an error in itself.
Years of a game being released does not correlate to years of actual growth when it comes to the people who play it. Competitive players won't experience a systematic improvement in their gameplay month after month after month. There's something called peak performance and that performance is attained much sooner, usually during the first months of someone playing (and this is the same for everything in life tbh). As much as you want to watch a video frame by frame trying to scrutinize every single little aspect or detail of a certain player, the truth is Tweek is not twice as good as he was past year, and he surely will not be twice as good next year if he keeps playing. There's a little room of improvement, but that's all there's to it.
MKLeo does not need 5 years of playing a character to "catch with everyone", because the actual reflexes, eye-hand coordination and everything that is biologically relevant to play the game at top level is maximized after just months of playing. Players are not improving at a rhythm of "duplicating their efficiency" every year, they all stopped much sooner, thats why theres always a new player that comes from nowhere with substantially less hours and starts beating the shit out of everyone, because it doesnt matter if you have played 1000 hours or 9000, both are enough hours for someone to catch to his own peak level in the game.
@@FlaskFlash Well it’s not really my thought. I’m just regurgitating what I heard Charles say. And I get what your saying too and can definitely agree that things don’t always move in strict, and predictable, linear progression. And every individual is definitely different. However I would argue that things DO progress. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower, and during some periods not at all. But the game will grow and keep getting more and more complex as people develop the gameplay, the characters, and the mechanics. Along with new players pushing the meta further and in new creative directions.
A great example of that being Melee. There no question that the learning curve for competitive Melee is astronomically higher now then it was say 10 - 15 years ago. New players need to scale a mountain of tech, neutral understanding, and match up knowledge just to catch up in the competitive scene before they can even consider hitting what their “peak” is.
Idk if that translates to character swapping at all, but in my head it essentially plays out like a math equation. In its early years, smash is more like a simple 6th grade math class and you only need to know simple answers to the simple problems that people present. These problems differ and a player to play and character to character basis, since every character has their own solution to each new problem. As the game gets older and people learn more they start presenting you with both, harder “math problems” so to speak, and more of them. Switching your character now not only means that you need to learn your new characters answers to the old problems that you’ve already solved but also all of the new bs the teacher has been cooking up in the lab while you were away. Not to mention you have to have come up with an equal amount of problems to dish out to your opponent. If your opponent has been on their character for longer they already have the leg up in terms of practice with the potential equations you will likely present them… idk if any of that makes any sense but that’s the way I make sense of a growing meta in my own head.
Also in regards to new players coming in and cleaning house, I’d say that’s more of an exception to the rule for exceptional people. Acola and Miya are the only two that I can think of off the top of my head that have done that, and who knows, maybe they’ve been playing since they were very little just not competitively. Even players like Leo, Sparg0, Tweek, and Zomba have been playing since they were 7/8yo and were known as local “hidden bosses” long before making their break into the top 10 conversation.
Leo fans' copium is big, every time he loses they blame it on the Aegis. They choose to forget very important things, like how he got farmed by AK, Riddles, and Tweek (0-3, 0-3, 1-3), and lost to Gluto (2-3) going full Joker, and how it got dismantled by Sonix and Shinymark, making his Aegis his only actual chance to win the match (still lost tho). Also how his Byleth got destroyed by Tweek, Shuton, and Acola (0-3. 0-3, 0-3) in the last 5 months and just lost to Kameme (2-3) going full Byleth as well.
Many people in the comments blame this L on Aegis' recovery being 'terrible' and completely ignore the fact that Shuton not only destroyed Zomba in this same tournament (9 stocks to 2), but he didn't get gimped once. Leo is not the best player anymore, arguably not even top 5, and it's time to let go. It doesn't mean he's not the Ultimate GOAT, it doesn't mean he's not able to fight back and come back on top either. It's just facts.
To you this may seem like just another Leo fan trying to make excuses for him so you’ll probably just write my comment off anyway, but I just wanted to point some things out.
They’re not wrong when they say that he’s losing because of aegis, he’s losing because he’s going PURE aegis. While I might not know exactly which sets you were referencing, what I can say, is that sonic (sonix), pikachu (shinymark), and kazuya (riddles) are some pretty hard matchups for joker with pikachu actually being joker’s worst matchup. So while yes, he did lose those sets with Joker and aegis would have probably been a better pick for him in those matchups, that doesn’t mean that they should become his new main. They suit him well as a pocket, covering some of Joker’s harder matchups to deal with, but Leo has the time, the consistency, and the results with Joker and he’s way less likely to get gimped off stage.
Leo made this set with zomba pretty close and I’m not going to discredit zomba by saying that Leo would have won if he was using Joker, but, imo, I think the match would have went a little differently if he played Joker here instead of aegis. Joker might not destroy rob AS hard as aegis, but he also doesn’t get destroyed as easily by rob as aegis does, especially offstage. Zomba was still playing out of his mind though. Props to him.
Also, just cause I forgot to say anything about it, Leo’s byleth getting destroyed doesn’t really surprise me at this point. Dude just doesn’t really play him anymore. If he did, I’m sure he could get back into form with him and start getting better results but there’s almost no real need to. I think Leo with Joker as his main and aegis as his pocket is just optimal.
back then mleo won more sets over ak, riddles, and idk about spargo and tweek...I used to dislike mkleo, but ever since post pandemic I looked forward to watching his sets. I agree with mkleo losing his touch against the current top players. Being top player in the world, make you a target for the other pros to learn and adapt no matter what fighter you use.
broski really sleepin on Leo just cuz he lost to zomba 😪
Why are people downplaying zomba. Dude is a top 15 player. And can beat top caliber players. But because it’s leo people say leo isn’t trying. Or is wash, like wtf? Give zomba his credit man.
Mkleo fans. Happens EVERY time he loses 😂.
He wasn't really a contender for top 15 this year until kagabiri 10. More like top 20.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 still beat leo
@@legrandliseurtri7495 you are the exact guy who he was referring to
@@legrandliseurtri7495 Ok let's say he is top 20. Why does that matter? It's been 4 years since leo's crown has been loose. The same thing happened to hbox, he was the best for three years until the competition became fiercer and top 25 people can beat hungrybox. But because it's leo and not someone like hungrybox it doesn't matter how he is ranked right? Just because it's leo.
Don't get me wrong I love leo, but the rest of the competition is now climbing to his level. Same as the 5 gods in melee
I just think aegis isn’t right for Leo. Somebody tell this man to start bringing back joker or byleth.
The guy who dominated the entire scene for 4 years straight starts underperforming and everybody jumps on the "washed" train. Jesus Christ. People really need to take people down to their level to feel good about themselves.
Yeah it’s lame. Leo just needs to find a character and stick with them I don’t think aegis is right for his style of play
Don't know why this community loves the word ''wash'' so much.
But at the same time when a player wins against Leo his fans don't want to give credit to the other player they start making excuses for MKleo
I don’t think he’s washed i just wanna know why he keeps trying to use a character that has continuously lost him sets
It’s extremely difficult to watch someone pioneer a character to dominance with Joker and just completely throw it away whether it be out of boredom or whatever and continuously lose. Even the Byleth was on another level in comparison to his aegis. It just doesn’t make sense and I think most people can see that it’s not going to work. It’s not hate for a Leo at all, it’s just sad to watch. Their recovery is god awful and Leo seems to have done much better offstage with his other mains
People know their Aegis matchup so well. His Byleth was so unique that no one was prepared for it and he was winning so much with that character, I don't know why he stopped using him.
There are a bunch of matches missing from your page. Where is MKLeo vs Kameme and MKLeo vs Skyjay?
Wanna know WHY Aegis is Leo’s worst character? He’s used to characters with more recovery options. Using all of Byleth’s recoveries made him nigh unkillable. Only small fast hits get Leo off stage because he’s the GOAT, but because Aegis is so linear on recovery he gives away too much free damage. I wish he’d get off them, he needs to realize this is why it’s going poorly.
I swear these guys think they’re experts and know more than the pros. 😅
@@pureawesomeness7431 I mean he is not wrong. Leo is nearly unkillable when he plays Byleth or Joker. The amount of stocks he loses with Aegis from offstage situations is a lot
@@pureawesomeness7431 😂 but a lot of the other pros said the same thing. Hush
@@NYBEATZ3 MkLeo has won major tournaments with Aegis and last time he got 2nd because of Spargo.
Does MkLeo need to improve or change his recovery, maybe? probably?
But calling MkLeo’s Aegis his ‘WORST CHARACTER’….
WORST CHARACTER?!
😂🤦♂️
Since y’all are the pro expert players. It’s gotta be true.
You right! Let me Hush 🤐 😂
@@pureawesomeness7431 like I said, pro players are saying the same thing. So why’d you still speak if you know you needed to hush 🤫? Do better
Ppl don’t realize Leo practices against BigBoss who plays ROB very differently than Zomba. He got caught off guard and Zomba is an amazing player.
Zomba just way better than big boss
Bro i can root for leo after he robbed ouch so hard
He was farming Bigboss when he was practicing for this tournament. He had so much experience there that he was definitively caught off-guard to some extent.
Lmao or Leo used his 4th best character 😂
@@austinroccaro2219Leo literally made a video titled aegis is my best character
And aegis is broken and bad mu for rob, he beat zomba before and literally every other aegis beats zomba, no excuse for this time
I seriously dont get the leo hate lol
When you are on top as long as him you have haters
There is not a lot of hate for leo himself, more to his fans who will make every possible excuse for leo's lost
@@biledox5576 zomba beat Leo’s worst character.
@@austinroccaro2219 it's not zomba's fault if leo is playing Aegis lmao. Also, leo has a lot of mu knowledge with Rob, so there is pretty much no excuse
@@biledox5576 Not to mention that Leo has literally beaten Zomba with Aegis before lol
when is mk leo gonna realize aegis is his worst character
He seems to play really safe with Aegis compared to his Joker or even Byleth/ROB. It seems like even his ROB had an XFactor to it in comparison. And his Byleth had big reads and shield breaks, there was just a level of separation with how unique they were. Aegis just seems rough with how poor their recovery can be.
Yeah I really think aegis just doesn't fit Leo's playstyle. Bit what can we do? We sure as hell aren't pros and he isn't the type to quit on something that much is for sure
Aegis is a good character but goddamn that recovery is atrocious there’s literally nothing Leo can do once he gets put off stage this is why he keeps getting washed by players he shouldn’t be losing to zomba is great and he has the potential to challenge top players but Leo shouldn’t even be losing to him
This is what i been saying about them. People always say they're broken but that recovery offsets them severely. Waaaayyy to easy to edge guard them .
Stfu. He is done. The dickriding has to stop. How many L’s does this dude need to take for it to happen?
At the end of the set you can see Leo shake his fist as if he was asking for the fist bump, he didn’t want to handshake after losing to Rob 😂
MKLeo uninteresting because of Aegis, regardless of results. It doesn't matter how he performs
I agree, I hate watching him play aegis
Nah it's pretty cool. 😊
He looses the most with Aegis but he keeps keeping them. He’s won 10
Times more with byleth or even corrin lol
@@Obstakulizer Nah, least interesting character he's ever played.
W
Another thing people don't mention about the aegis is that advantage state is good but it's not scary, you rarely get early kills you can't get edge guarded. Particularly with mythra you just take the damage and don't do anything stupid and you won't die until well over 100
Puta madre leo perdiste contra zomba y eso que ni siquiera su R.O.B es la sombra de la que alguna vez fue el R.O.B de zackray
Zomba reclaiming his title of best rob :3
Mkleo washed guys, it is what it is. Everyone finally caught up although he is a great player he is no longer the best.
I'm convinced that aegis gives you brain rot, it's not the player, it's what the character trains you to be. Every main of aegis has this problem where you get do used to winning easily you forget to space and stuff. This hurts when you die so easily.
Can Leo please give up on this character. I know "on paper" it should be his best character, but he just keeps getting out played time after time with them. His joker is still a thing a beauty when its on point, he should have stuck to polishing that out.
Leo keeps dying early and playing catch up when using aegis, just drop them bro
After this, and all the other failed Pyra/Mythra moments (i.e. Cosmos falling off, Sparg0 almost entirely dropping the character and immediately doing way better, etc.), are we *finally* ready to admit that Pyra/Mythra simply aren’t that good????
Like, I get it: they did super well at the Smash World tour, when they were still a pretty new character. Since then it has been nothing but poor results for Pyra/Mythra.
The character is at best top 10. Probably lower if we are completely and entirely honest with ourselves. They are nowhere *NEAR* top 2-3 like somehow people still claim.
Still a solid top 10 characters imo. But she's below Roy, like Esam said a while ago.
Nah that shit is still busted af people just got really good at the matchup because the character was so common for a while
Nope people are learning to adapt to the matchup so no the character isn't hard
@@greedo194 Top tier characters don't have counterplay as easy as hit them offstage and 50-50 they're dead. Rob has a better recovery than that, Steve has a better recovery than that, Kazuya has a better recovery than that, Joker has a better recovery, Palutena, Wolf, Pikachu, even many of the swordie top tiers have good diagonal recoveries and ways to stall in the air to get to the point where their recovery will make it.
Aegis just gets off stage and if the opponent is competent at edge guarding goes "guess I'll die".
@@isaacnikolic5895 yeah but you are still talking about a character with arguably the best mobility in the game with great combos, unpunishable combo starters, an insane burst option, fall speed fast enough to make tomahawk grabs broken, hurtbox shifting, foresight and crazy kill power. She has a legit weakness but it's also her only one. Doesn't struggle at anything else
Leo really believed Light when he said he should solo Aegis
GOBLIN LMAO
Live Shuton reaction:
Aegis recovery way too exploitable 😅
Thank god/smash balance team
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO ZOMBA
Anyone have their game at Collision 2023?
Live shuton reaction
he really said that aegis is leo’s most natural character lol. not saying that they couldn’t become his best but no way have they been more natural than his joker or byleth
Leo’s amazing but man I wish he’d drop aegis he’s amazing with so many characters if he’s gonna lose to people why not just try it with new characters ? I know he wants to play with whoever he wants I respect that and I’ll root for him regardless but damn man
Leo seems like he’s stopped trying a long time ago
hate when leo fans say shit like this, you’re purposely undermining the wins of the players. why can’t you just say ggs to zomba for beating the goat?
@@mrb-btwthat’s a lot of players I’m going to have to say gg too cus he washed
Leo isn’t washed, that’s disrespectful for him and for the players who beat him, they doesn’t win because he’s bad but because the players have been better (sorry for my english i’m french)
@@atalanteagigox9963 your english is pretty good! don't worry
You can't even compare Zomba to bigboss, it's like comparing jonny to acola or pink fresh with proto.
No matter how good Leo's neutral or punish game is with pythra, he will always die off stage.
That handshake lmao
Leo is double jumping too damn much
Season 2 and leo is not main character this time
He always does this. It's his weakness.
it's because he is used to playing priviledged characters like joker and byleth who have amazing recoveries
Leo's the goat, but it's nice to have shaolin on the map. Give Zomba his roses 🎉
16:24 Leo didn't realize the match was over and kept making mixups 💀
Leo on his PSG era.
this tourney is too fkin stacked, wtf is happening
I love that they mentioned YB at the start. He made an impression.
Leo needs to stop trying to make aegis happen, thats all...
MkLeoさんのホムヒカめちゃくちゃ上手くなってません？
16:51 “the God of Combe backs”, not that often after all dlcs came out and the game got the last update to balance characters lol, congratulations to Zomba, he dominated and went beyond!
Zomba is really feeling it this tournament. I could see him beating Miya and then Acola honestly.
He's not beating Miya sadly but he can make it far still
@@nickstorch9581 he almost beat miya in the last japanese tournament he played.
but he wasn't using shulk
I NEED THE GOBLIN VS APPOLOKAGE SET RIGHT NOW
I mean, Leo is out of tournament?
he's in losers
@rimsky richard ok, but it's weird because I didn't see him play in losers, but may be tomorrow come back to play again. I would like to see him in The Grand Final.
@@juliocastanedagonzalez2847 oh yeah he didn’t play after this set because he got into losers of top 24 and top 24 starts the next day
First time I've ever heard winning various majors with multiple characters called a "character crisis."
It is when you’re missing multiple top 8’s and falling behind the others at your level
What major did he win with Aegis, again? I think he's won more in his little Corrin phase.
5:00ここうますぎるだろ
Leo officially washed
Drop pyra and mythra wth is Leo doing? That type of shit make me give up on Leo lately. Washed
Nah its just he's washed not the character, its him.
This is a good mu. He just playing bad
@@nigele8625 idk how it’s that good of a matchup for pyra when rob can fly and edge guard her all day
@@Huntero41 it’s his character choices
@@NYBEATZ3 Mythra can combo Rob really easily, and Pyra can edge guard Rob decently well too.
In my opinion Leo is an all-rounder player which makes him #1. There are players who surpass him in neutral such as light and sparg0 who’s neutral are extremely dominating. But because he has the recovery option with other characters plus his incredible other stats it works out. Now he’s playing aegis who depends on nothing BUT neutral and if he gets knocked out once his reverse ledge trap/disadvantage comeback is at an all time little to no use. The man should stick to Byleth IMO but idk.
Spoiler alert
This aged horribly. He got 13th losing to Kameme 💀
@@grimxdisstracks3178 people will say anything lmao. even worse it was on byleth
Well what’s your opinion then because “people will say anything” I felt was pretty civil so why the attack?
@@Saucyandrew yea that's my fault that was unnecessary on my end
Let him cook.
Never understanding Leo hate
Saying a player isn't as good as he once was isn't hate.
Cant wait for the leo character johns when cosmos destroys Zomba on the regular. Leo just got outplayed
I mean, Leo’s Aegis is just…rough in comparison to other top Aegis players. Not from lack of experience playing the character, because he damn well puts lots of time into the characters. But ffs, it just feel Leo’s trying to force Aegis to the top of his character pool when Aegis (Mythra specifically imo) plays more like Roy instead of the typical swordies that Pyra fits into regarding the ones Leo plays. And Aegis is Leo’s only character with a piss poor recovery and it seems he hasn’t really figured out/doesn’t want to figure out how to work on it. No form switching to gain horizontal distance, and no edgeguard mixups like Pyra neutral-B. He does more Mythra side-Bs than any other Aegis I’ve seen and he gets punished for it 80-90% of the time. I’ve tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the Aegis just clashes too much with his general playstyle. Just go back to Joker & Byleth. Heck, I’ll even take him going back to Lucina at this point.
I do wanna say though that Zomba does deserve the W here. He’s a top ROB and an amazing player, and he’s able to go toe-to-toe with the other top players here. And he outplayed Leo hard (in big part to playing the MU against Aegis’s shit recovery 😂).
To people saying it takes time adaptation and whatever, that byleth took a year to be good, that people got used to leo's.
Spargo is the No.1 in the world with Cloud and has been using Cloud since the beginning, Leo's worst pickup are the aegis, he is slow, poor recovery and predictable.
Maybe he has other priorities, at this time he is not even top 7 in the world.
Zomba with the gigachad handshake checkmate
There’s a very short list of people I would never want to see win a tournament
And Zomba is on it
Why
Why because he plays rob?
I'll take a ROB winning any day of the year over pyra/mythra.
Leo is falling off lmao
leo ya no vale verga
ya desde cuando
Mksexo > mkleo
Mkleo is washed. This is a very good matchup for aegis. Mkleo isn't even a contender for number one, anymore. No shade to zomba he's crazy.
Facts how cosmos aegis do better against Zomba than Leo's 😂
This shows how ignorant you are. This is at best an even matchup. You can look at the MU stats to prove it. I understand thinking he's not the definitive best. But to not even think he's a contender.... You're a complete retard. I'd love to know who you think are the actual contenders
XD wtf
@@huangnguyen9529 Acola kind of also did better with Aegis against Zomba at tokyo smash boot camp lol.
It's a matchup that is Aegis favored for sure, but I don't think it's as dominant as people say. Rob can exploit her recovery so well.
Mkleo was just tired he’s still the best 😒
Leo, why do you lose to players who are so much worse than you now? 😭
Lol so much worse?
Zomba is borderline top 10 at this point lmao. "Much worse"?