This is why I always call or message dealers/sellers and ask for pictures of a specific guitar in multiple lighting settings. When you’re spending that much money on a guitar, you don’t want to be disappointed with what you actually receive.
(1) It's camera angle + Photoshop. Yes, it's a common retailer practice. (2) Flame tops don't play and sound better than plain tops. A few people would argue that plain tops actually are by any account better. (3) The guitar business has come to a point that caters good looking / luxury items to people who think that by buying a guitar they've become great musicians or tough rockers but in reality have little to no relation to the sport. They are impressed by their purchase and just think other people will also be impressed 😄
I was looking on sweetwater at the higher end PRSs. They charge $2000 over their already high ($4-5k) price for a slightly better looking piece of top wood and call it Tentop. They can only do that because somebody is buying it. But it makes 0 sense to me how someone can justify paying that much more for such a little extra bling. And then it gets even worse as you move into their Private stock line. At that point you are in a rich guy art collection situation rather than a musician looking for an instrument to play situation.
@@Bill_Bo The funny thing is that 'tentop' piece of wood might cost them something like 50 bucks more. These guitars are not made to be played, they are not made for real players.
Why the gate keeping ? Can’t people just enjoy the things they enjoy . Its not bothering anyone else . No one thinks they are going to sell out stadiums cuz they got a new guitar . Thats ridiculous. You sound bitter tbh
@@juanvaldez5422 Sure bro. Everyone's free to do what they please. And everyone's free to judge. If you think that trying to help people watching these videos to be more into music than into consumerism is ridiculous and bitter, then that's your problem. Not mine.
Totally agree. When I see a top that just *pops* online with almost a neon type of enhancement, it’s altered. Turns me off and I go look for the most eye catching top from dealers who don’t practice such inauthentic promotion.
I have a Core MEV in Charcoal Cherry Burst. I bought it from Music and Arts which is a GC company. The photo was entirely accurate and the guitar is beautiful and has no flaws, either in appearance or playability. Plus I got a good price, something like 10% off the retail suggested price.
This is basically the fast food argument. The burger you see in a McDonald's ad is never the burger you get. Guitar manufacturer's websites are purely marketing, so of course they're going to present the absolute best specimen to represent whatever line of guitar they're promoting. I do think your example of the CU24-08 SE is probably the most egregious example of this I've seen PRS marketing put out there and that is pretty surprising. All I play are PRS guitars and basses and I have to admit that discrepancy is pretty bad; I'd be interested to hear what PRS has to say about this.
I purchased a PRS SE custom 24 in some sort of blue finish. The stock photos made it look like it was a dark blue faded into a lighter blue, but when I got it, it was much lighter. The veneer looked really cheap up close and I almost wish it was a solid finish rather than transparent. I couldn't really complain too much, because I paid only $400 for it, but it was still misleading.
Most reputable dealers take many photos at multiple angles attempting to give an accurate representation. People nee to acknowledge that these guitars are extremely hard to capture in photographs. They never look the same in person.
I thought I was the only one to notice that particular SE model. It looks good on their website, but it really doesn't hold up to its exectations on the actual videos made by people here on youtube.
I have brought 1 quilt and 1 flame from Sweetwater and the online photos were 100% accurate. Although those SE Charcoal Cherry Bursts are ugly and I hope it has something to do with lighting and filters,etc.. I have 3 Core 10 top PRSi and as far as the SE PRS line…I really haven’t been a fan of it from the beginning. I’ve learned to live with it by now and in fact give PRS credit for overall raising the bar of the Korean, Indonesian and Chinese guitar market. But I still don’t like the idea of my $5000 Core PRS looking to the untrained eye the same as a thin veneer SE with all sorts of cost cutting features. I can’t help believe it affects the used market and reduces the selling price of my Core guitars. I guess it’s good I never plan to sell my PRSi!😁
i just dont buy flamed maple guitars. well i do like a little flame and figure on a maple neck for the looks, but ive been told that the really flamy, curly stuff does not make a particularly stable neck
This is why you should always try and buy guitars in person. If get them online you need to expect issues with appearances/condition being faked/enhanced. Same as women tbh.
I bought 3 PRS SE Custom 24-08 Quilt CG and inspected docens of it available worldwide from internet and not even a single one was "at the same level" of the announced one in the official PRS site. Of course, I returned all. I complained to PRS of this regard and the first answer was "we are sorry but quilt is something that can vary and you may agree with the dealer to send you some photos before purchasing". Then I replied this was not only an issue of "quilt" this was also an issue of the color finishes and that is something they cannot justify. They answered the conversation will be "up". Unfortunately, I have not received any extra response yet. In my opinion, PRS is deceiving people announcing much more impressive guitars than what they actually offer. This is clearly CHEAT.
I think your criticisms of prs are fair however I've also seen the same guitars look far closer to the stock photo. There is a lot of variation in any of the charcoal finishes and I have to imagine there's going to be more variation given that I doubt the se charcoal is sanded back at all
It is unethic to advertise with too fancy images in order to gain sales? That's part of the business. Look at the car ads: The car aren't presented in the basic package, they are shown in full bloom of all extras. And in the car shop (or car generator software at home) you'll get a strike by the sum of all extra charges. This by you presented issue is - my perfective - only an issue in terms of ecommerce/online trade. Going into a guitar shop there is no surprise, you literally could get, what you see. Guitars of the same model, even with veneer tops, aren't a priori optically the same. And lacquer could react different to wood. The manufacturer will take the prettiest example to show off with. And it's logical. PRS can't present all possible variations, they sample. The best looking. Therefore they are to consider as symbol pictures. And the lazy (becausd cost efficient) dealer uses the same standing operating procedure. There are exceptions: Wildwood Guitars, Louisville, CO, USA photographs every actual guitar in stock and showcase it on their homepage. Thomann, based in Germany, world's largest music store and online dealer in this regard, presents at a certain price range the actual guitars in stock. And it's not with SE. I bought my SE Mark Holcomb online, and they sent me pictures of the three examples they had in stock at that time to let me decide. But I asked for that. Buying a Peavey HP2 NOS at a national store online, was supported by the shop owner. The homepage offers only symbol pictures of the guitars, predominately the catalog pics of the brands. And not limited to Peavey. I wrote a mail with my colour demand. And he replied with a bunch of pics of one guitar in 'my' colour. He would recommend this guitar. And it was perfect. There is some decent responsibilty at the customers side, to ask for more details, if the customer wants the perfect match (and a fulfillment of expectations). Otherwise it could be surprising. In terms of PRS another detail is more interesting (and it's more an USA issue): The extreme fading of translucent blue shades. And especially, when you like to buy second hand, I would not accept a guitar in Northern Lights, which had lost all blue due to exposition to UV radiation (daylight, sun beams). And the dealer doesn't mention the fade.
SE Veneers lately seem to look very washed out and they are using product renders to present something that in reality isn't even looking anything like it. It started with the Holcomb SEs and it got absurd.
The veneers are the most ridiculous part about this. When the front AND back, have some outrageously flamed or quilted grain patterns. Then, because theres barely any depth to many of the finishes used over said veneers. The almost flip flop effect it can have. Makes it nearly impossible to get any consistent photos of multiple examples. I'm sure Sweetwater has certain shots all calibrated to the exact degree of angle. To minimize reflections and glare. But theres only so much you can do, before using filters or contrast adjustments. To calm down certain colors and balance contast. Heres a little tidbit of shit for people to argue about. If Gibson admitted many of the premium Epiphones aren't veneers. Considering they have the same headstock and electronics now also. Would you still want to buy a Gibson? Things that make you go, hmm? Peace!
In the specific example you are showing, it is not about photo filters. It is cheating. What is the justification to advertise a color finish and then receive one different? Can we say this is the same guitar? Absolutely not. Wood has randomness but you cannot advertise a 5A quilt and then distribute 2A. These is all parametrized so they have done that on purpose. In addition, color finishes can be replicated with a lot of precision so there is no justification for receiving a different color finish. This is a clear case of deceiving.
I have a doubt ... knowing that all the parts of the same type of wood, let's say from the same tree there are different parts, there are different cuts, they can NOT be the same and neither can they be close to the same image with a later treatment. Why is the appearance of a real guitar valued with a guitar from a photo? As long as the base, the wood is as promised, the quality of manufacture is as desired, the basic colors match the reality OF THE FAN OF SHADES OF COLORS, and it works in its entirety. Why then do we bother? Why is the price paid too high? Excessively high ..... I say. It's also a very easy solution. If you don't agree with what you receive, give it back. Let's also be honest with ourselves. One should already know, know, the tricks in the world of marketing and sales strategies to NOT act surprised. Other than that a good video 🤗👍
These fancy tops are all about the looks. Of course it matters. I have a plaintop Les Paul Tribute with a real nice plain top. I have seen ones where I didn’t like the top because of mineral streaks (darker lines in the wood). Much happier with the one I have. If I would get a guitar with those lines in the neckwood it goes right back. Does it affect the guitar? I doubt it. Big nono in my book. Even on cheap guitars.
@ First of all thank you very much for answering. I think that returning something that is not as in a presentation image is a fair thing to do. That is why there are warranties. I don't know where you live, but for example in Europe there are over a few days (14) where you can demand the return of the product and the money back without justifying any reason. But you also have to take into account that there is no possibility of 100% accuracy with wood. Nor with other natural materials. If I can see before I buy the finished product, the better, but internet orders .... And you're right, all that goes also for any product regardless of price. 👍🤗
@ You are absolutely right about the wood. That’s why it is preferred to have as many pictures of a guitar when buying online. No piece is the same. Thomann has only 2 pictures of their most expensive PRS (14.090,-€) While Fellowship of Acoustics (NL) has 12 pictures of a 13.000,- PRS on their website. I’m from the Netherlands. Times have changed in buying guitars. I think I’d rather go to the store with guitars at this price point. Even if it’s a 6 hour trip just to get there. Not that I’m in the market for guitars like that though. Fellowship is about 30 minutes from where I live. I think they can get a lot of things when looking for a specific guitar. They have lot of exclusive and vintage guitars.
@ I am German, but I live in the Canary Islands in the mountains. For that reason alone I would not buy a guitar with high prices. And even more so with the uncertainty of not being able to maintain it well for many years and not being able to sell it without great losses. Here the humidity and temperature changes are sometimes brutal. It's not that I'm going to freeze 😂😂 but there are very, very sudden changes and with very extreme temperature numbers. I remember times when an expensive guitar has cost 1500 Euro. In German marks that was 3000 DM in its time. And yes, you have surely bought it in a store trying it out more than once. You look at it from all sides for hours and try it out for weeks. Of course knowing that at any moment a different buyer can come and take it away. But there were not as many possibilities as today even with 5 stores in one city. Today's prices are outrageous. Crazy. And as work instruments they are not worth that money. I am already a Harley Benton fan. I have tried so many instruments in my life (61 years now) that this brand has been a revelation for me. There are probably better ones for more money. And it doesn't have to be much more. But for me guitars like PRS, Gibson, Fender... even Ibanez, and I have been a total fan of this brand, have lost their splendor. Are all the expensive brands absolutely beautiful? Yes, definitely. But they are not for me. By the way, if you are interested in more about electric guitars... „Physik der E-Gitarre“ by Manfred Zöllner. He also has a UA-cam channel with the same name.
@ Good old times. I remember drooling over Gibsons (behind glass) priced around 1650 Dutch Guilders in 1998. Proper ones. Under 1400 Euro converted to today. That company main focus is on collectables nowadays. And they sell. Price tag of my Gibson was 650 in 2015. New. Good price for an entry level. There are a lot of nice things in this world. I can enjoy looking at them without feeling the need to own it. I do like Harley Benton. Have one of their basses and a JA60 from a kit. I want to try the bound telecaster from them. Since I gave away my tele to my daughter. Good excuse to get one. I will look up the channel you mentioned. Have a nice day!
This is a non issue. If you are super concerned about what flame looks like you need to look at it in person. Flame will vary hugely dependent on angle of the picture and anyone selling anything is gonna use the best lighting/angle to make it look the best. If it’s super expensive you can always ask them to take pictures from a couple angles and send them to you. If it’s a shop they will usually do that.
This is why I always call or message dealers/sellers and ask for pictures of a specific guitar in multiple lighting settings. When you’re spending that much money on a guitar, you don’t want to be disappointed with what you actually receive.
One looks premium, the other looks cheap. This is why I ALWAYS try to check sweetwater first.
(1) It's camera angle + Photoshop. Yes, it's a common retailer practice. (2) Flame tops don't play and sound better than plain tops. A few people would argue that plain tops actually are by any account better. (3) The guitar business has come to a point that caters good looking / luxury items to people who think that by buying a guitar they've become great musicians or tough rockers but in reality have little to no relation to the sport. They are impressed by their purchase and just think other people will also be impressed 😄
I was looking on sweetwater at the higher end PRSs. They charge $2000 over their already high ($4-5k) price for a slightly better looking piece of top wood and call it Tentop. They can only do that because somebody is buying it. But it makes 0 sense to me how someone can justify paying that much more for such a little extra bling. And then it gets even worse as you move into their Private stock line. At that point you are in a rich guy art collection situation rather than a musician looking for an instrument to play situation.
@@Bill_Bo The funny thing is that 'tentop' piece of wood might cost them something like 50 bucks more. These guitars are not made to be played, they are not made for real players.
Why the gate keeping ? Can’t people just enjoy the things they enjoy . Its not bothering anyone else . No one thinks they are going to sell out stadiums cuz they got a new guitar . Thats ridiculous. You sound bitter tbh
@@juanvaldez5422 Sure bro. Everyone's free to do what they please. And everyone's free to judge. If you think that trying to help people watching these videos to be more into music than into consumerism is ridiculous and bitter, then that's your problem. Not mine.
@ You should learn the meaning of "gate keeping" before you keep using it incorrectly.
I love all of the PRS coverage on this channel. It’s become my go-to for all things PRS.
Totally agree. When I see a top that just *pops* online with almost a neon type of enhancement, it’s altered. Turns me off and I go look for the most eye catching top from dealers who don’t practice such inauthentic promotion.
Did not know how even lighting can mislead people.
I have a Core MEV in Charcoal Cherry Burst. I bought it from Music and Arts which is a GC company. The photo was entirely accurate and the guitar is beautiful and has no flaws, either in appearance or playability. Plus I got a good price, something like 10% off the retail suggested price.
This is basically the fast food argument. The burger you see in a McDonald's ad is never the burger you get. Guitar manufacturer's websites are purely marketing, so of course they're going to present the absolute best specimen to represent whatever line of guitar they're promoting. I do think your example of the CU24-08 SE is probably the most egregious example of this I've seen PRS marketing put out there and that is pretty surprising. All I play are PRS guitars and basses and I have to admit that discrepancy is pretty bad; I'd be interested to hear what PRS has to say about this.
I purchased a PRS SE custom 24 in some sort of blue finish. The stock photos made it look like it was a dark blue faded into a lighter blue, but when I got it, it was much lighter. The veneer looked really cheap up close and I almost wish it was a solid finish rather than transparent. I couldn't really complain too much, because I paid only $400 for it, but it was still misleading.
Most reputable dealers take many photos at multiple angles attempting to give an accurate representation. People nee to acknowledge that these guitars are extremely hard to capture in photographs. They never look the same in person.
I thought I was the only one to notice that particular SE model. It looks good on their website, but it really doesn't hold up to its exectations on the actual videos made by people here on youtube.
Advertising has always done this. Its never right, but common.
I have brought 1 quilt and 1 flame from Sweetwater and the online photos were 100% accurate. Although those SE Charcoal Cherry Bursts are ugly and I hope it has something to do with lighting and filters,etc..
I have 3 Core 10 top PRSi and as far as the SE PRS line…I really haven’t been a fan of it from the beginning. I’ve learned to live with it by now and in fact give PRS credit for overall raising the bar of the Korean, Indonesian and Chinese guitar market. But I still don’t like the idea of my $5000 Core PRS looking to the untrained eye the same as a thin veneer SE with all sorts of cost cutting features. I can’t help believe it affects the used market and reduces the selling price of my Core guitars.
I guess it’s good I never plan to sell my PRSi!😁
i just dont buy flamed maple guitars. well i do like a little flame and figure on a maple neck for the looks, but ive been told that the really flamy, curly stuff does not make a particularly stable neck
just like how you added a tonne of vignette in your video post-edit to contrast your kaala face into looking more "fair"
This is why you should always try and buy guitars in person. If get them online you need to expect issues with appearances/condition being faked/enhanced. Same as women tbh.
Very educational video!
Live bidding on the Jeff Beck auction. Pick up anything?
I bought 3 PRS SE Custom 24-08 Quilt CG and inspected docens of it available worldwide from internet and not even a single one was "at the same level" of the announced one in the official PRS site. Of course, I returned all. I complained to PRS of this regard and the first answer was "we are sorry but quilt is something that can vary and you may agree with the dealer to send you some photos before purchasing". Then I replied this was not only an issue of "quilt" this was also an issue of the color finishes and that is something they cannot justify. They answered the conversation will be "up". Unfortunately, I have not received any extra response yet. In my opinion, PRS is deceiving people announcing much more impressive guitars than what they actually offer. This is clearly CHEAT.
This is why I only ever buy solid color guitars!
I think your criticisms of prs are fair however I've also seen the same guitars look far closer to the stock photo. There is a lot of variation in any of the charcoal finishes and I have to imagine there's going to be more variation given that I doubt the se charcoal is sanded back at all
It is unethic to advertise with too fancy images in order to gain sales? That's part of the business. Look at the car ads: The car aren't presented in the basic package, they are shown in full bloom of all extras.
And in the car shop (or car generator software at home) you'll get a strike by the sum of all extra charges.
This by you presented issue is - my perfective - only an issue in terms of ecommerce/online trade.
Going into a guitar shop there is no surprise, you literally could get, what you see.
Guitars of the same model, even with veneer tops, aren't a priori optically the same. And lacquer could react different to wood.
The manufacturer will take the prettiest example to show off with. And it's logical.
PRS can't present all possible variations, they sample. The best looking. Therefore they are to consider as symbol pictures.
And the lazy (becausd cost efficient) dealer uses the same standing operating procedure.
There are exceptions: Wildwood Guitars, Louisville, CO, USA photographs every actual guitar in stock and showcase it on their homepage.
Thomann, based in Germany, world's largest music store and online dealer in this regard, presents at a certain price range the actual guitars in stock. And it's not with SE.
I bought my SE Mark Holcomb online, and they sent me pictures of the three examples they had in stock at that time to let me decide. But I asked for that.
Buying a Peavey HP2 NOS at a national store online, was supported by the shop owner. The homepage offers only symbol pictures of the guitars, predominately the catalog pics of the brands. And not limited to Peavey.
I wrote a mail with my colour demand. And he replied with a bunch of pics of one guitar in 'my' colour. He would recommend this guitar. And it was perfect.
There is some decent responsibilty at the customers side, to ask for more details, if the customer wants the perfect match (and a fulfillment of expectations).
Otherwise it could be surprising.
In terms of PRS another detail is more interesting (and it's more an USA issue): The extreme fading of translucent blue shades. And especially, when you like to buy second hand, I would not accept a guitar in Northern Lights, which had lost all blue due to exposition to UV radiation (daylight, sun beams). And the dealer doesn't mention the fade.
Wow, those PRS Charcoal Cherry Bursts are ugly IRL. The photoshopped picture looks nice, but the ones actually on sale look terrible.
SE Veneers lately seem to look very washed out and they are using product renders to present something that in reality isn't even looking anything like it. It started with the Holcomb SEs and it got absurd.
The veneers are the most ridiculous part about this. When the front AND back, have some outrageously flamed or quilted grain patterns.
Then, because theres barely any depth to many of the finishes used over said veneers. The almost flip flop effect it can have. Makes it nearly impossible to get any consistent photos of multiple examples.
I'm sure Sweetwater has certain shots all calibrated to the exact degree of angle. To minimize reflections and glare. But theres only so much you can do, before using filters or contrast adjustments. To calm down certain colors and balance contast.
Heres a little tidbit of shit for people to argue about. If Gibson admitted many of the premium Epiphones aren't veneers. Considering they have the same headstock and electronics now also. Would you still want to buy a Gibson? Things that make you go, hmm?
Peace!
i don't like flamed guitars , so yeah , no problem to me : )
In the specific example you are showing, it is not about photo filters. It is cheating. What is the justification to advertise a color finish and then receive one different? Can we say this is the same guitar? Absolutely not. Wood has randomness but you cannot advertise a 5A quilt and then distribute 2A. These is all parametrized so they have done that on purpose. In addition, color finishes can be replicated with a lot of precision so there is no justification for receiving a different color finish. This is a clear case of deceiving.
I have a doubt ... knowing that all the parts of the same type of wood, let's say from the same tree there are different parts, there are different cuts, they can NOT be the same and neither can they be close to the same image with a later treatment. Why is the appearance of a real guitar valued with a guitar from a photo? As long as the base, the wood is as promised, the quality of manufacture is as desired, the basic colors match the reality OF THE FAN OF SHADES OF COLORS, and it works in its entirety.
Why then do we bother?
Why is the price paid too high? Excessively high ..... I say.
It's also a very easy solution. If you don't agree with what you receive, give it back.
Let's also be honest with ourselves. One should already know, know, the tricks in the world of marketing and sales strategies to NOT act surprised.
Other than that a good video 🤗👍
These fancy tops are all about the looks. Of course it matters.
I have a plaintop Les Paul Tribute with a real nice plain top. I have seen ones where I didn’t like the top because of mineral streaks (darker lines in the wood). Much happier with the one I have.
If I would get a guitar with those lines in the neckwood it goes right back. Does it affect the guitar? I doubt it. Big nono in my book. Even on cheap guitars.
@ First of all thank you very much for answering. I think that returning something that is not as in a presentation image is a fair thing to do. That is why there are warranties. I don't know where you live, but for example in Europe there are over a few days (14) where you can demand the return of the product and the money back without justifying any reason. But you also have to take into account that there is no possibility of 100% accuracy with wood. Nor with other natural materials. If I can see before I buy the finished product, the better, but internet orders ....
And you're right, all that goes also for any product regardless of price.
👍🤗
@ You are absolutely right about the wood. That’s why it is preferred to have as many pictures of a guitar when buying online.
No piece is the same.
Thomann has only 2 pictures of their most expensive PRS (14.090,-€)
While Fellowship of Acoustics (NL) has 12 pictures of a 13.000,- PRS on their website.
I’m from the Netherlands. Times have changed in buying guitars. I think I’d rather go to the store with guitars at this price point. Even if it’s a 6 hour trip just to get there. Not that I’m in the market for guitars like that though.
Fellowship is about 30 minutes from where I live. I think they can get a lot of things when looking for a specific guitar.
They have lot of exclusive and vintage guitars.
@ I am German, but I live in the Canary Islands in the mountains. For that reason alone I would not buy a guitar with high prices. And even more so with the uncertainty of not being able to maintain it well for many years and not being able to sell it without great losses. Here the humidity and temperature changes are sometimes brutal. It's not that I'm going to freeze 😂😂 but there are very, very sudden changes and with very extreme temperature numbers.
I remember times when an expensive guitar has cost 1500 Euro. In German marks that was 3000 DM in its time. And yes, you have surely bought it in a store trying it out more than once. You look at it from all sides for hours and try it out for weeks. Of course knowing that at any moment a different buyer can come and take it away. But there were not as many possibilities as today even with 5 stores in one city.
Today's prices are outrageous. Crazy. And as work instruments they are not worth that money.
I am already a Harley Benton fan. I have tried so many instruments in my life (61 years now) that this brand has been a revelation for me. There are probably better ones for more money. And it doesn't have to be much more. But for me guitars like PRS, Gibson, Fender... even Ibanez, and I have been a total fan of this brand, have lost their splendor. Are all the expensive brands absolutely beautiful? Yes, definitely. But they are not for me.
By the way, if you are interested in more about electric guitars...
„Physik der E-Gitarre“ by Manfred Zöllner.
He also has a UA-cam channel with the same name.
@ Good old times. I remember drooling over Gibsons (behind glass) priced around 1650 Dutch Guilders in 1998. Proper ones. Under 1400 Euro converted to today.
That company main focus is on collectables nowadays. And they sell. Price tag of my Gibson was 650 in 2015. New. Good price for an entry level.
There are a lot of nice things in this world. I can enjoy looking at them without feeling the need to own it.
I do like Harley Benton. Have one of their basses and a JA60 from a kit. I want to try the bound telecaster from them. Since I gave away my tele to my daughter. Good excuse to get one.
I will look up the channel you mentioned.
Have a nice day!
This is a non issue. If you are super concerned about what flame looks like you need to look at it in person. Flame will vary hugely dependent on angle of the picture and anyone selling anything is gonna use the best lighting/angle to make it look the best. If it’s super expensive you can always ask them to take pictures from a couple angles and send them to you. If it’s a shop they will usually do that.