I commend you for standing up against the hateful feminists in Korea. Please do not be discouraged by the nasty commenters attacking you. There are many, many people around the world who support you and agree with your ideas. Feminism has its place, but not when it's used to vilify straight men and create more division in the world.
It's very telling that San E's critics have no actual counterarguments to what he's saying, just ad hominem insults like calling him "MRA" or "misogynist." I've even seen people wishing that he be physically assaulted. Ironically, all San E's critics have done is confirm the idea that many feminists are irrational and unhinged.
@@jordankohring8723 while ignoring all the other who took their time giving actual criticism? Yeah sure. Always look at the worst minority why don't you, that's always productive. Those threats cannot be justified, but shouldn't invalidate the sentiment of the majority. That's exactly what san e's 'character' is doing. I thought it was satire? lmao
As a african female doing a male dominated course in the university (9 girls to 100 guys) , i have experienced sexism at its' best'. I live a country where some girls are denied education because they are to aspire only to marriage." A woman who is too educated is a threat to the man, the woman will become proud and wont respect the man'' are all things i have heard from both men and women. Some women dont even realize that they are being cheated and deserve better. Thats why feminism to me will always be a positive word. Its a word associated to women who have fought and are still fighting for the rights of women. But what saddens me are the 'radical feminists/man haters' who gives the actual feminists a bad rep.
How are women being "denied education" in the West? Aspiring for marriage and starting a family is a legitimate aspiration. Relationships are asymmetrical and it's logical for women to choose to raise children while her partner earns a wage. Feminists reduce the femininity of motherhood to a lesser position in pursuit of being closer to the male mold. It's a confused overreach IMO. There are male and female dominated courses and domains. Prejudice is present to varying degrees for any minority; men in female dominated fields and vice versa. The big difference? STEM courses which men are overrepresented in are not systematically set up to target any demographic. The humanities do target men and races. Radical feminists spawn there because feminist theory in the curriculum (Sociology) is rooted in Marxism--just read the literature. Replace oppressive bourgeoisie and victimised proletariat with male and female. Marxism has always been a low-resolution image of society with a clumsy parasitic blueprint intended to identify then overthrow any leading demographic. By choosing a domain, sorting the distribution of success then defining those doing worse as victims of the successful, misinformed bitter movements are born. The self-interest is disguised behind the shield of victimisation. Soviets rallied workers to rape, murder and plunder farmers and factory owners on the pretence of oppression. Hitler rallied Germans against Jews. Feminists use the same political theory to overthrow 'the patriarchy'. The disguised self-interest is clear when male issues are never addressed in feminism despite proclaimed egalitarianism. The overrepresentation of men working in sewage and every undesirable and dangerous job is not the concern of feminism. Campaigning for female quotas in desirable vocations in board rooms is on the agenda. I wonder why?... Division and dangerous psychology is inherent in feminist literature. Sometimes theory is perfect and practitioners muddy the doctrine. In this case it's repulsive theory and no surprise radical practitioners are an outcome.
Firstly i am an african girl living in west africa. So my opinion was based on my geographical location. The women are "TAUGHT" to aspire "ONLY" to marriage and child bearing because that it what determines if you have lived a fulfilled life or not. Some of these girls are not given the chance to dream or aspire for more because it will make them undesirable to the men. So girls as young as 15 are given off for marriage, after all "their workplace is the kitchen". In fact these women actually give up their dreams and aspirations in order to fit into societies standards. Secondly, does being ambitious as a woman reduce her femininity? . How does a woman being able to educate herself, manage a company etc make her less feminine. If one belives that being a feminist reduces their feminity, its because they have to fight for what is right and fair hence they might not appear to be docile/submissive. Over the years there have been male and female dominated courses. I have seen first-hand what happens when you take away gender from a course. Medicine which was previously male dominated in my school now has a large female population. If more girls were being told that they could be anything they want. I believe that the mindset that girls arent strong enough or intelligent enough to do 'something' will die out. You talk about 'radical feminism' and i talk about 'true feminism'. Feminists do not intend to overthrow the male species. If a man believes that a woman being given the same opportunities as him means that he is being overthrown, then it goes to show that somewhere in his mind he realizes the strength of a woman and feels threated. I believe in the feminist values that makes me aspire for more.
@@rich_jg5705 You just sounded retrograder that the Line 1 people Let's see if you get it after watchin a video, reading doesn't seem to be your deal ua-cam.com/video/hg3umXU_qWc/v-deo.html
Okay, so let's lay this out: San E, who has had a long history of casual sexism and general creeper behavior, decides to speak out on the debate on feminism. He does this by (supposedly) parodying a male character who claims to be a feminist, but actually holds super generic ideas that MRAs usually espouse as arguments AGAINST feminism. This is his ONLY contribution to the issue. He doesn't offer any examples of what a proper feminist might be (male or female). He just highlights a very common strawman argument and pays special attention to radical fringes of feminism that true feminist theory barely even acknowledges. Is this...his way of helping? Is this how he supports the proper movement? Because honestly, it seems like a lot of these are actually his own feelings, and he's hiding behind the idea of a "character", like A LOT of artists do, until you find out that they're actually kind of terrible IRL too. He could've written a rap about the real problems women face. He could've dedicated at least a verse to that within this very song. But he didn't do that. He just gave more notice to the minority radicals within a larger movement. He even came back and used a penis joke and the old standby of accusing Jerry K of only being feminist for cash (because I'm sure that's a BILLION dollar industry, amirite? Social justice is always so profitable!). I'm surprised he didn't just say Jerry K was doing it to get laid, like all the other MRA trolls online do. I really did appreciate the explanation and breakdown, as always, but I find it REALLY hard to believe that with San E's past, he isn't just thinking about his place as a man who is going to have to straighten up and not be a creep to women, as we've all seen him do. "Lol, it was satire" is such a common excuse for when people mouth off what they really feel, and then just try to backtrack. It's hard not to believe this isn't the case here. So worst case scenario: this is San E's real feelings and he's trying not to destroy his career. Best case: this really was an intended parody and San E is an idiot who is doing what a lot of people do that does NOTHING to help anyone and just distracts from real progress. Either way, I'm not impressed.
Just saying my opinion, he propably wasnt trying to "help" directly, but i think that his purpose releasing a track like this was exactly whats going on right now, getting peoples attention to the things that are happening right now and rising conversation about different opinions.. maybe i dont agree on the method that he used, but atleast publics attention is now on the topic and around it.
@@jennaeveliina313 That's an interesting point, but my question there is...was it not already? Because the Metoo movement has been pretty huge in Korea and I've been hearing news about feminist movements (not the crazy radical ones; the real ones) coming out of there for years. Like I said...MAYBE his intentions were good...but it's hard for me to believe that when instead of snapping back at Jerry K like a child, he could've just explained that the song is parody and what Jerry K wrote is correct. But he didn't do that. He accused a guy with a solid record of being openly feminist of "fake" feminism. Also, and this isn't to your point, but something I wanted to point out - I think the comparison to "I'm not a Racist" is a stretch, considering you're talking about a Black man writing from the point of a white casual racist. This would really only relate if San E was a woman.
Same. Not impressed. SanE is the type of writter who lay out a whole story and in the end "it was all a dream" LOLOLOLOL i think he wanted to say what he wanted to say knowing he'd get supprt from misogynistic men, and self-hating women under the guise of a "character"
I agree with Jenna partly. I think he was just triggered by the extreme feminists (especially in that recent video) and male feminists who are supposed to get fame from feminism. But only small part of the lyrics in 'feminist' shows his diss to these two groups of people. the rest of it are about the traditional thoughts of Korean males who are attacked by real feminists. It makes his song very confusing and actually it is probably expressing his own deeper voices, which he denied afterwards though. These two things disappoint me and I agree that he did show little respect to women before (such as with Irene), so I strongly doubt his words. I think only one of his points, extreme feminism can be a crucial one if it is really becoming the most part of Korean feminism and bringing a seriously bad effect on the society. If it is, it is necessary to point it out, but he should have been more clear and more focused on his main points instead of talking nonsense. If it isn't, I think he is just a member of traditional Korean men who holds those views in his deep mind and triggered by extremists and people who are supposed by him to get fame. He does not care about the real equality between male and female, only uses strawman fallacy to distract people, to fightback and to stigmatise the real feminism.
“He doesn't offer any examples of what a proper feminist might be (male or female). “ “He could've dedicated at least a verse (about real issues women face) to that within this very song.” “Social justice is always so profitable!” “distracts from real progress” Truly, the aforementioned phrases are the highlights of your comment. Regardless of whether he took on a character or not, the lack of reference towards womens’ real issues/proper feminism/solutions to the status quo problems anywhere in his track is the issue. If he was indeed taking on a “satirical” character, wouldn’t it make sense to also include the persona/thoughts of a proper feminist who can offer solutions ? Especially with how heated the issue of feminism is in Korea, the least San E could have done is offer some clarity on his actual thoughts in addition to taking on a confusing and controversial “character”. Why else did people respond with diss tracks? Because the track appeared to completely represent San E’s personal thoughts. Further, isn’t San E supposedly friends with female rappers/doesn’t he have female friends? He could’ve gotten their personal insight on how the track came off as, but it’s clear he failed to do that as well.
You guys should interview people on the street and ask them about these songs and what they think about them. I feel like that would be some interesting insight on a hot topic in Korea.
I would actually love to listen how other culture feels about this topic. Coming from a place where there have been a lot of hate crimes against women from all ages (even little girls under 10) is mind opening to see this issue talk about in all society
I really enjoy these videos where you're able to share more about current Korean culture, and I'm very impressed with the way you are handling the recent videos on what have been very political and controversial issues. I'd really like to see more of these. I know a lot of us come to your channel due to kpop and other parts of popular and mainstream Korean culture, but I find having this better understanding of both the current and past political and social culture, and how this is influencing the artists and the things we are seeing, both fascinating and really helpful.
Thanks :) Our motto is 'Digging deeper into the Korean Wave' and our mission is to give you a deeper look into what you see on the surface level in KPOP and Hallyu. So reading your comment made me smile :)
This took so much guts to post that I applaud you for doing so. I respect the fact that you are trying to help people communicate and have understanding. This is why I subscribe to your channel!
Either San E executed the song poorly so that noone got the satire, or he really meant what he said and now making up excuses. If his intention was to critisize feminist crazies, then he should have stuck to one topic, omitting mentioning what average uneducated males think creating confusion. Especially after he posted Isu Station assault video In both cases, San E failed , I guess
idk. obviously it seems like he's saying it's satire now cause he's in deep shit, but can you really blame him? if you were getting attacked and loads of hate was coming your way for speaking your mind, wouldn't you? the point of the video was to show how femenism isn't needed in korea and I think he executed it pretty decently. obviously some arguments he made weren't the best but the arguments like "if you want equal pay join the army split the billetc" were really good. he was pretty much just saying the typical arguments against third wave femenism, but that doesn't make it invalid.
In either cases, he proved two points. Firstly, he revealed this haters culture in korea, which is clearly unhealthy for individuals. Secondly, I personally feel he proved his point about 'fake feminists', these are no feminists. Feminists work hard to change people's opinion and advocate for equality. They do not go about verbal abuse or disrespecting people opinions to make them change their minds. By forcing people's opinion to agree with yours is not true meaning of feminists or even advocacy. It is to let people understand their plight and the society agree as a whole to make a collective change for the better.
20:34 onwards- the points made, isn't San E the same then? Ambiguously speaking in FEMINIST, and then LATER stating that "it was a character"/ "satire" ...sounds a little convenient to me. According to him, Jerry K is using feminism as a business tactic, then what exactly was San E doing?
To be honest, even though I could buy and understand the explanation you gave, but the whole narrator thing does seem like a last minute cop out to slime away, because as you said parts of it really makes it seem like he is indeed voicing his own thoughts, I couldn't find the satirical context very prominent in his rap. As a person who studies Gender and politics and majors in it, this comment section is just a mess of people who don't know what feminism is. Feminism in plain words is for equality from patriarchy socially, economically and politically. There are extreme feminist groups within Korea but if I am not wrong Korea also has a very strong extreme men's movement that is nothing short of misogynistic. SO the divide is at quite an extreme level, which results to people not understanding what feminism truly is. Don't even make me started with the "waves" of feminism, I've studied about it enough. People in the comments who say- oh all waves were fine, but this third wave is so problematic" First, third wave is over. We are on the fourth wave factually. Second, each wave dealt with it's own issues from suffrage and now it's dealing with sexual violence which however you phrase it is a huge issue all over the world. Now essentially feminism is not meant to be a men hating bandwagon but South Korea in this case has turned out to be like this because of the extreme opinions on each side. But coming back to San E, I personally do think he did not do a great job of making it obvious that this was a so called "satire".
AGREED. It's hilarious how people are talking about something they obviously haven't researched and critically thought about. Like you said, feminism is for equality from patriarchy, which in turn, HELPS MEN. Like Jerry K said, men are the ones who created patriarchy in the first place -- so it helps men too. This comment section is disgusting lmao
I wish I could pin this comment to the top of the comments section somehow so that everyone could read it. I think it's really important, and so many people seem to come from a place of misunderstanding what feminism is and what has gone on before. It's not only in Korea that some parts of the movement have turned out to be problematic due to extreme problems, and it's happened in history too - but really that's the nature of ALL political and social movements. There will always be a section that will be extreme and take things too far - the key is to not loose sight of the good that is trying to be done, and to not 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' as the saying goes (at least in my country)
@@imnassa Absolutely patriarchy was a system created by men, it intended to keep them on top and systematically oppress women but it affects both genders now and feminism in essence tries to get rid of it. Not to mention how people throw around the word "radical" feminism, not knowing that the actual definition of radical feminism is saying that gender and sexual oppression is the primary social cleavage in society, radical feminism no where talks about an extreme form of hate.
@@missynutt_ Exactly!! But that's the thing people are so brainwashed with half baked facts that they think are right, the go forward and talk anything that is misinformed but will say it in such a way that will make people think it's true and that's so sad I swear.
Honestly felt like SanE contradicted himself a lot. The “narrator” story seemed a bit like a cop out and his response to Jerry K’s diss track only reinforced some of the things that this “narrator,” who’s allegedly separate from himself, believed. It’s extremely telling that people were still backing him after the original track was released with no context/explanation.
Honestly, I did back him before the explanation was put out there. If you have ever listened to San E's other music, you can tell this is a style he has done before. WanneBe Rapper is just one instance. I think that song had a lot of people angry, and they are using this track as a way to spread "hate" about him in an "accepted" way. Many rap songs play a character. Especially in American rap, which it is obvious he leans towards that style. The only issue with this particular song, is it is about a really hot button issue in Korea right now, and extremists are jumping on the chance to condemn him, and don't care to actually pay attention to the intent of the song.
Dusti Witmore I’ve listened to his other music and I still thought the lyrics to this song were extremely pointed. Most people interpreted it that way as well. Not everyone is going to have extensive knowledge about an artist’s intent before listening to their songs, and the point of him contradicting himself still stands. If he was aware of how sensitive the topic was, then he just willingly dig himself into a hole.
@@ughmina I honestly think you are missing my point. They were pointed on purpose. He was calling out people on the fact they claimed to be Feminists on one hand, then said/did things that are completely opposite. That is why he contradicted himself, it was on purpose. Like I said in other comments, it is very much like Joyner Luca's I'm not racist, which was mentioned in this video. It is like people saying things like "Black men don't care about their kids and abandon them, but my sister is married to a black man, so I can't be racist" San E is taking that same hypocrisy "Hey women want to be equal so now you should be forced to serve , or start paying for more things. Oh and I can say this because I read a book on feminism and I am a feminist now" He is making fun of people who claim to be woke, and claim to be out there fighting the good fight, but ONLY when it suits them or makes them look good.
I'll be honest: when Jessi mentioned in Happy Together, that when fights occurred during Unpretty Rapstar instead of stopping them as an MC he would be egging them on, I was very disappointed. I heard a bit of his music before and to me he seemed like great artist and a good guy. But after that, I reconsidered my opinion of him. Now, when the whole Irene incident happened that's where I started to dislike him. No matter how much of a sunbae you are, it's almost like a unwritten law in the Korean Entertainment industry that female idols and male idols/singers/actors etc, do never make (skin)contact with each other unless it us required from the script or if they are friends. I'm not even Korean, but I think almost everyone who watches Korean television knows that. That said, he clearly out of no where, put his arm on her while sitting next to her. I've read the comments, in his defence people say he was only teasing the audience, merong-ing or whatever. However you could clearly see she was uncomfortable because of it. You don't just invade someone's private space like that. Especially not to a female celebrity. It shows lack of respect. In a society where a little rumour could cause a lot of damage to a career. Putting her in that spot was very disrespectful, not to mention an invasion of personal space in a place it was uncalled for. One incident I could forget, but he tried to pull that same stunt Twice! Regarding his music, he is allowed to say and call himself whatever he wants. But to me, actions speak louder than words. A man who does not respect a woman's personal space like that, is not someone I could support.
You kinda sound like those feminists in his song... You're being prejudice against men. I'm Korean American and where I live people with that mindset are called traditional koreans. Their mind is still stuck in the past believing that men should do everything for women. If Irene was a male and San E a female, would you say the same thing? Okay they're uncomfortable with it but think about it from San E's perspective. I think because of all the backlash from people like you its a part of what made him make this song.
@sad sushi Ikr. I like how this person assumes anyone who doesn't support 4th wave feminism doesn't know what feminism is lmao. The ignorance is real with this one.
@@shivtrbl Bro, I thought the same thing but this "politically correct" and woke person told me that the third wave was over or some shit. They're pretty much the same thing, so I said 4th wave to not trigger people lmao
Jerry made a mistake with Malik, but even that was probably because he took such allegations very seriously. Definitely don't trust San E after "fake propaganda".
@Kiki South Korea (like many other countries) was in once very patriarchal. Therefore, men had the power and influence to establish gender norms and ideas of what it means to be male or female.
@Kiki wait what? Don't you know history? Until the 20th century nearly no woman had even been touching a position like one of a politician who can set these roles. Sure, women could have stood up for themselves but how are they supposed to do that when they're teached that they're supposed to just agree and play along? Men have set the standard of mostly everything and it's only in the last 100 years that women have gotten the right to vote in western countries. They still don't have the right to vote in a lot of other countries. I'd like for you to go to one of those countries and to a male politician and ask them if women set the roles in their society? Do they have any power or is it all in the hands of men? I think they'll answer the latter.
Kiki It seems like you are the one who knows absolutely nothing about biology or even behavioural sciences. No matter how much people like you try to pretend it, gender norms are not related to biological facts. There's nothing in a female's body that would make one act traditionally feminine. Gender norms are a sociological thing, and only exist because of the origins of the society we are living in. Back in Antiquity and Middle Ages a patriarchal society made the most sense because humanity as a whole needed to protect and control the ones who held reproductive power but we are transitioning into a transhumanist era and those beliefs are useless as life is no longer in constant danger anymore.
@Kiki To add on to my comment which you fam, totally ditched: YOU said women AND men put together the traditional roles HENCE I was answering THAT statement which was, in your comment, a different paragraph from the biological part. So please. Come up with some arguments instead of shutting down the convo with some bashful comments directed at people who genuinely want to educate others. I think you don't want to know anything else than what YOU think is true and therefore you won't listen to Even Einstein's reasoning. If that's the case I don't think you should start a discussion since discussions like these are made to win over someone else's argument by logical reasoning. Not shit-talking each other. Women and men did not create the gender roles. Men took the higher rank and women took the lower rank and to make sure the women weren't doing something they shouldn't (like breaking these norms) men teached them exactly what was expected from them and how useless they would be at anything else. This is not something biological. This structure isn't NEEDED for survival. This is social construct and basic knowledge when you study psychology, social science, norms, social structures, history etc.
I can't help but be distracted by Idol playing in the background at the beginning HAHA but thanks for talking about this - been trying to make some sense of all this going on and this was helpful to listen to!
LOL two male rappers battling over who's the better feminist.... yikes. It's fine to open up a conversation, but San E especially seemed to contradict himself a lot... He was saying similar stuff in both songs even though one is supposed to be a character and one isn't? And why does he have to post that video on SNS... he is highlighting a crime where yeah probably the women are in the wrong, but there are countless crimes where men are violent to women? Where are those videos?
@@KamKamKamKam exactly haha! what is she talking about "where are the videos of violent men?" xD what is the point of posting a video like that, its super obvious who did wrong *facepalm. the thing is that every one will ALWAYS take a womans side over a mans side, its interesting and scary to see how this men got hated all over korea, even though it was all a lie :O
Based on this explainer, it seems like at the end of the day San E did not really say very much on the topic of gender inequality itself, but rather focused on two versions of feminism that seem easy to attack: feminist men who end up being insincere, and radical feminists who espouse misandry. First, I’d question if these two visions of the feminist movement are truly representative or even accurate. Second, it seems he may have contributed to trivializing or dismissing feminism by focusing on these two potentially straw men targets. I say all this with just the small amount of context given in this video about the current conversation in South Korea. But basically, that’s how this situation appears to me. I get there is a “point” to his criticisms of the two groups, but he also weirdly misses the point too. It’s like he forgot that there was a real problem to be addressed, and instead seemed much more outraged or provoked by the peripheral foolishness that sometimes arises - such as from extremism, or the commodification of movements like feminism. And I wonder if San E’s “confusion” as I would call it, in contributing to this conversation is also just another manifestation of society not truly taking gender inequality seriously or in an urgent enough way.
"And I wonder if San E’s “confusion” as I would call it, in contributing to this conversation is also just another manifestation of society not truly taking gender inequality seriously or in an urgent enough way" now that you said it, makes sense I was a something I didn't considered before. For me was more a matter of nuanced references getting lost in translation but your view of it is super interesting to reflect about.
I have listened to San Evs whole discography, he often likes to be sarcastic and he often does it just to point out the problem. It is a problem in his songs and of feminism today that pointing out a problem doesn't necessarily mean you are offering alternativea, so in this way he is exactly portraying the reality of our social movements. At least, this is what I think.
Sara Minaj what other topics has he satirized in his songs? I’m curious what the rest of songs are like, because I guess, I don’t currently feel he is all that qualified to address the topic he did. I could be wrong. I feel that feminism is a pretty important but divisive topic. Everyone has a personal stake in it, as it affects our lives deeply. But his attempt at satire may have been too lighthearted or callous? I do think feminists are trying to call attention to a problem that not a lot of people want to do something about. It’s easier to stay in a holding pattern. For instance, with the gender pay gap issue, to fix it, you have to raise women’s wages. Where will that money come from? Will it require redistribution? Will men have to wait longer for their own raises? And that’s in a situation when a man and a woman doing the same job gets and deserves equal pay. And If more women apply for higher paying jobs, will that mean fewer opportunities or competition for the men who want those jobs? And if so, will that create resentment among men? So I think changes to create equality are going to be difficult. And this is just an example of just one “type” of inequality between men and women. Other types aren’t even as clearcut as economics. There are also the differing society pressures and assumptions toward male and female genders that exist to keep things the same. We already have gut reactions, usually negative ones, when people behave in a way that do not meet our expectations. When a person defies our expectations, such as a woman being assertive at work in the same way as men, will we look down on her or will we just treat it as natural the way we do with men? Anyway, those are just the most common examples of how difficult of a topic feminism is. To me it’s fine and hardly matters if people like San E tried but failed to address this topic well. Unless you see actual effort put in, how can you expect much more than what is? What San E did sort of changes nothing, really. But that’s it. That’s the problem. It changes nothing, when actually, change is needed.
*As a Korean man, I want to explain what is going on in Korea. PLEASE READ BELOW.* English ain't my first language so please understand any grammar mistakes. Media is portraying SAN E as if he's ruining his career. As someone who can actually see the reality of current situation by being *IN KOREA*, San E is actually doing better than ever with immense amount of support. It's unfortunate see all of these comments saying that he's digging himself down to the grave and attacking him. It's a sad reality to see a lot of hateful comments toward San E when most of you are accessing what is going on through articles and videos. Basically, there are radical feminists community (e.g. Megalia, Womad.. etc) in Korea. They call themselves "feminist" but they are not. Most of Koreans (men and women) are fighting towards Korean radical feminists right now, including San E. But a lot of celebrities are very careful with them because of their man power (the community has so many people in it, they can literally terror their target through social media.. etc). They are literally KOREAN men hating community that sexually harasses Korean men and underage child (mainly towards penis sizes saying it's 6.9 cm, which explains one of San E's song name). Their activity includes chocking male street cats, hidden camera recording towards Men's bathroom, sharing how to kill Korean men with "Ethylene glycol" or other deadly chemicals such as acid, attempted murder towards underage, attempted murder towards their father(because their father is Korean men), posts pictures of fetus saying "I had an abortion, should I feed it to the dog", *harassing and congratulating their death towards male celebrities (e.g. SHINee Kim Jong Hyun, Kim Ju Hyuk)*, harassment towards Korean war veterans, Korean male baby penis picture leakage (violation of The Act on the Protection of Children and Juveniles from Sexual Abuse), taking and leaking photo of croquis model (nude model for sketching) in Hongdae Univ, mixing birth control pills in male co-worker's drink, and ruining people's life by shutting down restaurants or businesses by creating false rumors using their community and twitter (this happens very often). There has been numerous reports of radical feminists faking sexual harassment on purpose to ruin other man's life. Because of this, the idea of "helping women when they are in danger" is a big no no because there has been many cases when someone helped a women in danger, and he got sued for touching her. There are so many other worse cases and things that I could write but I can't think of it straight out of my head because there are so many of them. These are not "what they did", these examples are what they are doing constantly towards Korean society. I can find links from their archived community if you wish but they are in Korean so I don't think it matters. If you knew how to speak Korean, just by reading one of their tweets can make you feel sick just by how discussing it is. One of the many reasons why Korean woman are afraid of expressing themselves as feminist is because Megalians made the term "feminist" into an evil ideology in Korea. There are terms that Megalians (radical feminists) uses very often. Here are some minor examples. The term 한남 (Han-Nam) is abbreviation for 한국 남자 (Korean Men) which is used to look down on Korean men (similar idea with saying n words towards Black people). The term 기생충 is a word in Korean meaning "parasite" which is used to call Korean male fetus by the community. The term 재기하라 means "Go kill yourself" towards Korean men and the term is originated from a Korean man who killed himself. The term 갓양남 is abbreviation for God Western men which is used to praise western men and look down on Korean men. Even if San E is known for being a creep, it's nothing compared to what the radical feminists are doing. He is not fighting alone and that is why he's doing well in Korea. Please rethink and comment.
Thanks I pretty much caught that in a general sence from the song Feminist. The song does a very good job of showing what a real feminist is vs a radical feminist. I feel really bad for the Men and Women of South Korea who are dealing with these crazed radicals.
I can read Korean and if it's not too much, can you just give me one link so i can read through it ?(even if it might be too much to stomach) . Also I appreciate this added perspective on this current issue.
I agree that radical feminist is harmful but this did not erase the fact that he is an ignorant and his opinion has impacts on women movement in Korea as well.
uuuh it's not the first time San-E uses satire in his songs, it's something he uses a lot, and if you cared about doing your research you would've known
im going to criticize the narrator of the video just for the bit about "people thinking theyre woke just because they cut their hair". it may not seem like much to you, but in a society where women are pressured into wearing makeup to the office everyday, where they are less likely to get a job if they dont wear makeup to the job interview, your appearance IS political, whether you want it to be or not.
exactly. women with short hair get insulted and ridiculed for being a rebel where I live. oh she wants to cut her hair short, a new thing to backbiting about these modern feminists
San E's had a suspicious history, and I feel as though the "character" he's playing is just a way to push the blame off himself as he spouts his honest opinions regarding feminism. Also, *SLEEQ* is wayyyy too smooth to be slept on. Her flow was incredible from what I heard, I need to look into her more.
Halfway through the video I was about to stop and comment “Did San E explicitly state that this was a satire or is this something you are just assuming based on how ridiculous the song is because nothing about the translation nor the way you are explaining it hints at it being a ‘character’ other than you saying that it is a character?” But I’m glad I watched until the end. Honestly I believe San E belatedly stating that it was a satirical song and waiting for a diss track of all things to state this was not a very smart move. With the state of things in South Korea right now which I have gathered from this video and some of your other live-streams you would think it would be common sense to maybe add in a line about how “these lyrics are not my own thoughts.” And from the translation you gave it is quite hard to tell if he is in fact playing a character or not especially the end portion that includes the reference to the gangnam incident because that really seems like his own views . There are plenty of rappers who say controversial things through characters like for example Tyler The Creator, but even he kind of in a way explicitly states that it’s a character. A simple line in the beginning like “They be like...” or the korean equivalent would have been enough to change the entire song. Also I’m not sure how his song helps anything because from what I saw online and from some of the things you said, his song has only brought the people who think like this out of the backwoods and made them feel validated. It vaguely reminds me of how trump kind of incites racists in America to be more bold with their actions. What do you think? Also some of the common stuffs you mentioned happening in SK right now like the “date” violence is kind of frightening. I knew things were bad but not that bad. Once again thanks for making this video even though i’m still kind off unsure about some of the things said it brought to light some of the issues that I as someone who is not living in SK wasn’t aware of.
I agree with you. I think it's a little strange only saying it was a character afterwards, it feels like a cop-out. it's almost like he actually meant what he said in feminist but when the diss tracks and drama started pouring in, he regretted putting it in a song and said it was "just a character". I'm not saying this to attack him, it's just what it feels like from my perspective.
I feel like he decided to state it was satire afterwards to get people to listen even if it made him look like a villain. To maybe open peoples eyes and strike up a debate between people about a serious issue.
@@catarinabarbosa2247 Furthermore, he doesn't have a sister and as Jerry K said, he didn't ever serve in the military, so he thought it was clear from the lyrics that he wasn't actually portraying himself.
I don't really see how he's portraying a different narrator rather than represent his own views.. I think if he was being satirical, he should've made it more clear. But whatever the case is, it's pretty disgusting that most of the Korean men share such views as depicted in the lyrics. And the fact that they didn't know San E was "dissing" them (if he was) and were praising him for "spitting facts" is so stupid lol. Anyways, I didn't know Korea was THIS behind in gender equality and it's shocking that many Korean men still don't know what the essential problem is.
@@Jms02 first of all - i am korean, and second of all, that shouldn't matter - why the fuck should non-koreans not be allowed to voice their opinions about this issue?
@@MusicIsOxygen25 Maybe because they don't know about what's going on in Korea, they're talking about feminism in their own country so it's gonna be different than what Korea's feminism is like. Thats why 🖕
@@Jms02 you are fucking ridiculous. danny literally states in this video that many korean men actually do share the thoughts in san e's lyrics, and you just immediately attacked me, thinking i was a foreigner, although i was talking about the actual reality of korea. well according to you then, since i'm korean and actually know what's going on here, you can shut up :)
dude you think that this view point is only in Korea? I hear this shit ALL the time in the U.S. Men everywhere are behind its just the men in the U.S. are better at hiding.
Why San E didn’t get sued for copyright reasons is beyond me. This is a legit diluted copy of “I’m Not Racist”. Not only from the delivery but the actual bare bones of the beat. I understand what San E was trying to do with his lyrics. He wanted to be a lyrical genius like Joyner Lucas but unfortunately his lyrics flopped when at the end - in a sense, he turned out being the very hypocritical feminist he raps and disses in his song. Nice try but the fact that this sounds like the non-impactful version of “I’m Not Racist” with misguided hypocrisy didn’t work on me. You’re trying to convince me that San E - the same guy who objectified Irene on stage to the point where she gripped her own hands underneath the table for comfort, the same guy who not only edged on women against women fights on “Unpretty Rapstar” but encouraged and ignited it, the same guy who openly devalues women in the public eye - is actually a feminist? No thank you. I’m not buying it and you’re not buying me with the lyrics or this explanation. This WASN’T a rap in support of women or feminists. This was a rap to eliminate WOMAD. Don’t get it mixed up. He could’ve used this rap to empower the true feminists but instead he used this rap to focus on the few but extreme “feminists” who weigh down the movement. You can’t make Stupid sound smart. Sorry San E. Nice try. Next.
I also think that at very least, at times in the song san E was in fact portraying his own views, and something that annoyed me about what he was saying is when he talked about how women not wearing bra's, not shaving their armpits and cutting their hair being funny and saying they shouldn't because he 'likes their hair long', i think the whole point is that they don't care or at least don't want to have to care about what guys want and doing these things might genuinely make them feel free and good for them, it's also ironic because just before that he talks about how men don't enforce their beauty standards on women. Anyway just wanted to that it annoyed me.
I think about them cutting their hair short not wearing bras etc. wasn't aimed at women in general who do it but for women who do it because of the whole corset free movement thing and partaking in that makes them feel "woke". Personally I kind of agree with that point because I even do some of those things but not because of a movement but because it makes me feel comfortable but at the same time I think the corset free thing is kind of making women who meet stereotypical beauty standards because they genuinely like those styles self conscious because they aren't doing this thing that's supposed to support women. At the end of the day just do what makes you feel happy, if that's wearing mini skirts and tight bras and loads of make up go for it if it's wearing baggy clothes and no bras and not shaving your armipt hair go for it!
But that was intentional though. I myself have experienced that, my Korean ex-boyfriend would say "you look pretty in anyway" but if I ever brought up the topic of cutting my hair (not even very short), he'd say "I like your hair long." So San E was referring to that, how guys will say they don't enforce beauty standards on women, but they are very quick to point out what they like or not in a woman. It shows the hypocrisy of men.
@Yuju Waterbottle there are beauty standards from both sides (the height for men is a good example) but for women is a lot worst. I lived in South Korea, and the pressure placed on girls to "be pretty" is crazy. They criticized women a lot more than men, in every way.
@Yuju Waterbottle we are talking about South Korea where women are pressured a lot more about their appearance. I dont know any woman who thinks men can change their height. Any rational person would know you cant make someone taller or shorter. I dont know who you've met
This comment section needs to google the words "intersectional feminism" and go read works by Bell Hooks and Angela Davis, just to name two. And that's just the start. There’s so much to unpack and if you actually cared about making the world a better place and LEARNING and listening, then you’d do your research thoroughly before spitting hate. Don't spew what you don't understand, cause it's obvious none of you did your research and critically thought about the lyrics from these songs. Jerry K and SleeQ rapped straight up facts.
Honestly? Thanks for the mansplanation. BUT. I don't buy it to be very honest. I am an avid fan of satirical and dark humour and also a feminist. And I can tell you, I can actually see the difference in the song. Like in the beggining sounds a bit like he is portraying a character by the tone of his voice but then it seems he just lost himself in the rap, and it was his, I guess, normal and fluid rapping voice. And that's why I can't take sides with this guy which just took a controversial topic in order to people to talk about him. Before I didn't know who he was but now I do. He won. And you know what I can't support as a satirical person myself? Satire being used in the name of giving you the right to be racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. Satire is a way to make fun of tragedy and oneself in the crudest way possible and it doesn't have to include something you are not directly involved with. Many people won't understand my point and think I am wrong but that's where I stand. This guy is just like the guy who killed himself. Just an attention seeker and not really a feminist. Also this San E guy calling out this Jerry guy for taking advantage of the situation when he started the whole thing? Can't take him or Jerry seriously. And Sleeq, she is amazing 👏👏👏. About the bar situation. That's what pisses me off. ONE stupid girl doing something radical in the name of feminism but when guys do something or anything bad, it is not "all guys".
@@Flyed First of all, music and art is all about interpretation - saying that a piece should be only perceived in one single way would actually be disrespect to the artist. Secondly, satire is the use of humor, irony, ridicule, etc to criticize something, but it's not clear what he is criticizing here, as the very people he was "criticizing" were actually praising him. It's completely valid to think that this wasn't a satire as a music listener.
@@MusicIsOxygen25 No, this is completely different. Feminist is a song from San E's viewpoint, it isn't just generalized lyrics that come from nobody in particular. When someone is showing his perspective and thoughts, you can't take that and skew it, as that reflects on San E as a person. It's not an interpretation to deny the author's intentions, its ignorance.
@@Flyed ?? You literally said it was a satire but then now say the lyrics are from his own perspective and thoughts? Nobody is "denying" the author's intentions because in this case his intentions are not clear. You would be an example of this: you literally said that the song is from San E's viewpoint and that the lyrics aren't generalized, but if it was a satire, then the lyrics would HAVE to be about the generalized thoughts of the men that he is criticizing, not his own perspective and thoughts.. so I have no idea what you're trying to say. You're contradicting yourself, and that is enough evidence to show that his intentions are very ambiguous. That's when interpretations can come in, and they are obviously going to be different depending on different people.
I just wanna say few things. 1. Maybe the radical feminists started the argument but violence cannot be NEVER be justified in any means. If you are annoyed by people just walk away, don't beat them to the bone. 2. San E is know to be a liar and a person who easily betray friends and colleagues, since SMTM3. He is always ready to change his version and lie about stuff. He never said in first place that the song was about 'a korean man who thinks he is feminist but in fact he is not' he just posted with no explanation. Someone criticized him because he did not researched about OECD datas and instead of saying that he was not him but he was portraying someone else, he just apologized saying that he should have researched more, so he was indirectly admitting that these were his thoughts. But later on, since this became a hot topic, he changed his mind saying that these were not his thoughts but he was portraying someone else. 3. San E should just shut up since he was rude many times to women and female celebrities before. Do you remember when he was joking and he lean on Irene's shoulder with his arm? She was visually uncomfortable but he did not stop. Later, while performing, he was spitting sexual lines while looking and pointing at her. Do you think this is a respectful behavior, dear San E? 4. Even if this was his real intent from the start, he indeed portrayed men in false way. I live in Korea and male feminists are really few. Most men don't even try to fake being feminists and they swear at feminists very easily. They also joke and mock girls who are attending female universities, having short hair, not shaved body, not wearing makeup etc saying they belong to Megalias. But it's not. They just generalize women and feminists too easily. The kind of man San E described is not very usual. There are no men who say they are feminists and say shit like that except for himself lol most men just hate feminists in general thinking they are crazy and all radical. 5. Feminism in Korea is a very complicated matter. Some of feminists are radical and they use 'mirroring' as a way to mock men exactly like men do with women. (Ex. Men mock women who have small boobs, too skinny, too fat etc and women mock men for having a small penis lol) Most of them think that men are inferior to women. BUT this is a real small portion compared to all the feminists in Korea. A lot of them are well-educated and they know statistics. There are also gender studies in some universities. I found many feminists between university students and also professors. They don't mock men because they don't need to. In Korea, though, there is a very bad image about feminists because media tends to portray just radical feminists because they do very weird stuff that can attract viewers. If you just report about people protesting to get stricter laws for those who use hidden cameras is less entertaining and eye-catching then reporting about the free corset movement videos where they destroy their makeup very violently, according to the media, right? Thanks for reading until here, have a nice day.
@@fakfac3 아니 제가 영어로 썼는데 왜 한국어로 쓴 댓글은 나오지 ㅎㅎㅎㅎ 아무튼 다행이 제가 충분히 한국말을 할줄아니까 답변을 드릴게요. 아시다시피 페미니즘은 정당이죠. 정당 안에 의견이 하나밖에 있는게 아니라 다양하게 있을수있죠. 우파를 응원하면 우파들과 함께 항상 잘 지내는게 아니고 의견이 다르니까 갈등이 날때가 있고 좌파를 응원하는 사람들도 똑같죠. 그러나 정당마다 레디컬부분도 있지 않아요? 그럼 왜 레디컬부분을 왜 안 없애지죠? 할수없니까요. 사전을 보시면 페미니즘은 "성별로 인해 발생하는 정치ㆍ경제 ㆍ사회 문화적 차별을 없애야 한 다는 견해"라고 하고 남녀평등을 응원하죠. 이 헛소리를 하시는것보다 공부를 좀...
I wonder if radical* feminists realize that, it isn't "men get treated better" there's about 50% of men who don't even get along with the other 50%, There's men who act with over-pride and others that are compassionate. In general there is hate everywhere for EVERY reason, always has been, even thousands of years ago. So it seems dumb to categorize a group that is filled with so many different kinds of people. We got men and women who sometimes have the highest position and abuse their power, and we have hardworking men and women who don't even get paid a cent all over the world. No matter what country I hope people really understand that. It's never about who has the worst problems, that kind of thinking doesn't even land you a relationship with anyone if you live with the mentality of "I/We went/go through more than you" We can't fix hate, we can't fix death. You want to fix it? then you end up getting a dystopia where people have to follow everything to the book, and we all know how that turns out.
@@DejikoUnicorn 1. I think you are talking about Isu Station assault where all the claims made by females so far, has proven to be false. To name a few, the fight was startled by women, they were the first to take physical action. They started filming and, they were first to hurl insults at men, which was contrary to their claims. Furthermore, the police arrived 4 minutes after the incident, contradicting women's claim that the police came after 30 minutes. Also, police separately questioned women and men while women claimed that they were questioned together. Furthermore, the wound was not severe and men deny beating the woman while the women claim that men hit them. For me, the men's claim is much more persuasive because all the claims made by women were shown to be false by video recordings, police and bystander testimonies. video footage of part of the event. ua-cam.com/video/mHjNPWMs51g/v-deo.html 2,3 I don't follow Korean celebrities so I don't have a say on this. 4. The reason why many Korean males think that most feminist are Megalias or Womads (radical feminists) is that those groups are the most active groups. If there is a Feminist cafe/blog that is bigger, more influential than Megalia or Womad in Korea, please name them. I would like to know. The biggest Feminist protest in Korea is the Haehwa Station Protests. There has been 6 of them so far and the number of protesters is estimated to be 10,000-15,000 each protest. I still cannot believe one of the slogans during the protest was men should commit suicide. (재기해) 5. I want to believe that Feminism in Korea isn't the one portrayed in the media. If there is a feminist cafe, a group that actually calls for equal rights for both sex, please leave me a link.
@@sungwonkim4424 1. I know what happened. I know that the girls started the fight but even if it's true I don't think it's acceptable to hit a person until you see their skull just because they attacked you first verbally. I mean if me and you are fighting for any reason, is it ok to start punching me in the face? No right? 4. They are not the most active groups, they are the most spoken groups. Medias don't care to portray feminists group fighting to take stricter measurements about porn culture in Korea but they prefer to talk about the No Corset movements and post videos and pictures of radical feminists destroying their makeup. It's more entertaining for most people. I can just tell you to look up about feminism more because there are many feminists in Korea that don't need any cafè or blog. I follow few youtube channels who talk also about feminism like "닷페이스 .FACE". There are many different protests where they don't say 재기해 and the purpose of it is just gaining more rights and changing some laws. I am a feminist myself and I don't agree with saying commit suicide because I don't wish them to die. I just want more rights for myself, my fellows and the people I love. And the thing that men should understand is that they can benefit from feminism too... it's not just about women. 5. As I said before I don't follow cafès but there are few youtube channels and some facebook pages that are nice. Just search it.
7:05 do they ever think women might be depending on men financially because of the frEAKING wage gap???? If you give women less money you are literally putting them in a position where they hAVE to rely on someone else 🙄
Lmao, that's because the wage gap is fake. Employers aren't giving women less money for doing the same work as men. If that was the reasoning, then wouldn't employers be RUNNING to grab some female employees so that they don't have to pay them more than men? It doesn't make sense. It's not that women are being paid unequally. It's either (1) there aren't enough opportunities for women, or (2) women chose not to utilize opportunities. About 56.9% of Korean women are employed, while about 76.3% of Korean men are (according to OECD). When the rates are like that, how do you expect women to earn more than men? Not to mention, women are expected to take on a more traditional role at home, so men do more work and more hours, while the woman stays home and takes care of the kids. The gender wage gap has been debunked several times throughout the years, and I didn't know if it applied to S. Korea until I looked up the facts in OECD. And it turns out that it does apply. Feminism shouldn't be advocating for "equal pay" and shit. It should be advocating for more opportunities or encouraging more women to be a part of the workforce. But who says that raising children at home isn't any better than working? I don't judge the women that decide they'd rather have a successful marriage with kids, because that may be more valuable than looking through papers all day and earning cash to satisfy your materialistic desires.
The point is that this E guy is cherry picking. There is satire YES but it’s more slanted towards women the entire “Satire” . So is this a satire of Some Korean men regarding feminism or Feminists themselves??? Just because someone says the song “is supposed” to be ONE thing does not mean the intended purpose still does not underly. This rap was not about the Korean mans struggle which is quite frankly from my view very real. It was a not so sly way of imposing his own thoughts on feminism and the REAL life or death situations placed upon women for just existing. Just because you call a banana and apple does not make it an apple. Just because he called this a satire of some Korean men’s thoughts on feminism does not mean he is a feminist.
You thought that he was playing a character in 'feminist'? Thats interesting, i thought his lyrics were his literal thoughts- it stirred up quite some chaos in sk. What do you think about the song??
Hi Danny. Big thank you for doing this, and the other one on the Korean survivor of Hiroshima. You do have a fine penchant for politics, and being able to think through popular culture things politically! Keep up the good work! Hwaiting!
Thank you for this. I am not sure, if it is because I am American, or what, but I picked up on the satire from the very beginning. This song, is very much like a lot of American rap songs, from people like Eminem, and Dre. I took it as he was calling out the "Fake Feminists" not saying this was how he felt. Why did people jump on this as him being himself, but don't think other songs artists sing are "fact" and how they actually feel? Do they think that songs are all artists true thoughts and feelings? I would venture to say.. No. Thank you for referring to him as the Narrator. In this song I felt he was bringing to the light the fact that the 2 groups have extremes and fake fronts. This song is very Americanized. As was mentioned, he is an American Citizen. If you listened to, and watched WanneBe Rapper, no one thought he was being serious, but this they are? That song was based off of This is America. Why is it this one has to be "true"?
@@DKDKTV I totally agree. That was is what I thought of when I heard this. The back and forth on how each side doesn't know the fight of others. He was calling attention to the people who think they know, but have no idea how hateful their words are, when the actions do not match.
i thought the same ! From the beginning i knew/tjought it wasn't San E speaking but a character like we commonly see in some rap song, the structure of the text was shouting "satire" the entire time i read the lyrics, so i didn't understand why everybody threw him under the bus without thinking twice
I kind of also wish we could start wording ourselvesmore carefully. Misandrists becoming the face of South Korean feminism is super different from a war between the sexes. That just primes people to take sides, when the real issue at hand is certain factions of women being extreme and violent. That kind of thing makes even actual feminists scared to identify as such.
Thanks. This makes a lot more sense to me than when I first listened to the song. I was unclear whether these were San e's opinions or the opinions of some Korean men in general. I"ve seen on the street videos where young men have voiced their discomfort of changes in the society and the fact that some women while wanting to be independent also what everything paid for them down to their purse while making good incomes themselves. As some who was alive during the original feminist movement in the U.S. a lot of what I am seeing is the growing pains of change and not a whole lot different than what men were saying when it happened in the U.S. and what made it worse was that some women too didn't roles to change for women either. It is hard to convince men that there might be some long term benefits coming from the change.
I think that the video of Emma Watsons speech at the UNICEF explain very well the privileges that men would also have if there was gender equality. It's not only political but also cultural in the entire world, little things happen in a woman's life like being called in the street, being afraid of going out, or at school when if you win over a guy in sports they will say something like "hahaha you've got beaten up by a girl" as if it meant that he is weak, it's all just things that are here every day as if it was the most normal thing in the world, and I know alot of girls who say that they aren't feminist because they say it's not attractive enough. They give up their rights to be seen attractive and I dont understand that, even some girls themselves think that they should always stay at a mans side but man dont really think this way towards women and I think that its mainly because of the movies you grow up with as a kid when you think about it the most popular are always like the guy save the girl and the girl only thinks about having a boyfriend. But I'm happy that more and more things change and people as well kids grow up in a better environment and the movies become more and more varied about the positions that Male and female characters have.
@@liagauthier6396 Years ago back in the early 70s we didn't have a girls basketball team in junior high. It was before the U.S. federal law mandated that school have girls sports program equal to boys. So some girls decided they would try out for the boys team. It causes a bit of a ruckus but the coach allowed the girls to try out for the team. Two of the girls made it on the team but one of the stipulations was they had to wear they bow ties on game day like the male members of the team which they did. The next year the new federal law started so they switched to the girls team. I guess you would say they were feminist but beyond that they just wanted to be free to pursue what they were good at. In high school one of my friends decide to push the envelope and take car mechanics. She was the first girl to do that and believe she got teased a bit. But she did it. It is the little things that make change. The guys in my school took cooking class because they figured out they could eat better and meet girls. Sometime you have to get men on board by non conventional means. Many men don't think about the subtle ways men's views affect their moms, sisters, girlfriend and wives are until something happens to them and as men, because of the system, they are powerless. Then they understand that it isn't just a woman's issue but a man's issue too. There is nothing that will change a man than to have his daughter denied access to opportunities because she is a girl or woman or to have her sexually harassed in the school or work place. What we are really talking about is creating a shift where women and girls have the ability to live safe and free to pursue their dreams. We don't have to use the label feminism if that is the issue we can call it basic human rights. Whenever we uplift women rights in a society then the rights of children girls and boys not to be physically and sexually abused are also put into place. It is about protecting the most vulnerable in the society against poverty and physical and sexual assault.
@@lifetobelived9102 yes you are right, but in the end what really is feminism? Is it believing that girls are equal to guys or is it just wanting to live their dreams regardless of who they are? I think it's both, I think its connected and that we are slowly getting better, even if it's not the case at least girls speak more and more about it and that makes people that aren't like you said: fathers, husbands, or grew up in a patriarchal family to understand better. I think that you can be feminist just by leaving your dreams and fight for them, but it's so weird that once you say you are you think that your dity is to go out the streets and make justice for women, I think it's fair enough to make justice for ourselves in a daily life, it's with little things that the world change: like what those girls in the basketball team, they didn't think they would change anything they just did what they wanted to do, and yet they made a lot of people understand that sport is not specified for guys. And by the way I think that it would be pretty cool if they mix guys and girls during sports at school, I am French and in France we mix guys and girls together but I know that in some countries it's not the case and I am sure a 100 percent that people only get better by mixing.
@@liagauthier6396 To be honest I hated mixed gym classes because boys would make games like dodgeball and volleyball a blood sport and I don't have an athletic bone in my body. Some girls who are good do play on independent sports team. My friend's daughter has played hockey on guys teams and at first the guys on the opposing teams wouldn't give her any hard shots until they realized she was really good.
@@lifetobelived9102 it's exactly the point, the guys in the school I was were exactly the same, I fought hard to prove them that I wasn't any worse than them in sports and not only have I prove them wrong but also encourage girls to keep up and show that they are good cause I knew alot of girls who could be really strong but they just didn't make any effort because they knew the boys would make fun of them, how many times have I heard because I won over a guy "You're not a girl you're a guy!" But then again just by winning it proves them wrong, and make them better
As for the extra parking spaces for women - I'm a bit confused as to why some conservative korean men are upset about it, what are they used for in SK? Where I live, women's parking spaces only exist in (most but not all) car parks (is that what they're called in English? Lmao, idk I mean those underground parking lots) - they're close to the exits and telephone cells, not to mention brighter illuminated and often supervised closely (sometimes there's an actual security guard there). There're usually only one or two rows of them and most of the time women don't even use them. The reason they exist is because of the (in the past) rather high percentage women being raped in car parks if they're alone (or let's face it, without a male companion) since they're usually not that crowded, rather dark/uncanny and the surveillance is...well, pretty shit (most of the time there's nobody really "watching" what happens, just recordings). So although women's parking spaces don't prevent rape in any way, they make it easier to escape, get help and identify the offender. So basically: as a woman, if it's late at night, you're all alone and are feeling unsafe/anxious or just have a bad feeling about being alone somewhere uncrowded and basically "off the radar" (like for example if you're rather young), not to mention if you've been a victim of rape in a place like that or in general before, you can park there. That's just how I know them though, I've no idea how it's in South Korea! :)
it feels like they're using it as an excuse to talk about "discrimination against men".. when in reality, there is a legit reason as to why they were made like you mentioned
@@MusicIsOxygen25 yes, that's exactly what they do. Gender pay gap exists and it is not because woman do not want to do dangerous jobs, woman parking lots exist because of rape done by man. First of all men shoud end their toxic behaviours, bevore they cry crocodile tears.
@99 Bottles of Bleach you are the one beliving in myths I know lots of women who were payed less than men in the same job. Women who had better education than men working for less just because they were women. I heared employer's say " Men earn more at this company because they are Men" Who are you to talk to me like that?
It's very hard to believe he's playing a character.He raps just like he always raps and there's nothing satirical about his lyrics.When other celebs do Alter Egos you clearly know its not them,for Example Nicki Minaj.She plays Roman Zolanski,a crazy man.You can distinct him from Nicki,cause he is a lot louder,pronounces things differently and raps about things that Nicki usually doesn't comment on.You know when she does Roman and when not.However in this case,if SanE wouldn't have said he played a character nobody would have had the idea he's not being himself.
I enjoyed all the raps that came out of this situation but I've got to say that I don't think he's being honest with his "character". Initially I would agree because of his lines about having read on book etc but the more he talks about it the less it seems like a character. The point of satire is to take the topic to an extreme, where you make a situation ridiculous but that's not what happens here. He just spouts talking points that blur a bunch of ideas together and gives him enough room to be offended when someone responds to it. I don't know man. Doesn't seem legit to me.
It's really weird that this dude explaining is liking only the comments that somehow imply that San E's song is deep/misunderstood. Not to mention San E's comment itself. Gross.
I'm sorry but I just don't see how this is satire. It just doesn't read that way to me, because as a feminist I know the types of people this song portrays. The use of the term 'fake fact' rings especially true, because here in america we have a massive problem with our president and other powerful people calling legitimate truths 'fake news' or 'fake facts'. i also know san e and him being this type of person really makes sense, based on the lyrics and cultural insensitivity he has shown in the past. Also, whether it was intended as satire or not becomes irrelevant, because this is a powerful, well respected man putting out these views as his own. In addition to this, san e has lived in America, a society that is more enlightened towards feminism. Words have power, and San E. Should. Know. Better.
al pha the issue with averages is it can be skewed by outliers (people with high wages or really low wages or part time jobs) in the US. I feel like the issue is that the wages could be less or more. I do however believe there is still misogyny involved in certain systems. South Korea, however, is a country that has its problems with sexism and I honestly believe that none of us should really be talking about Korea
Very interesting video again and I like that you're not being judgemental and just exposing facts and explaining the lyrics to us. San E FEMINIST lyrics is the typical speech I encounter in my everyday life when the subject of equality or feminism pops out, basically men telling women how to fight for their rights and how to be a "good feminist"... That's just exhausting you know, the eternal 'not all men' chorus and shit, while you see sexist crimes happening everyday, every hour (Incels, feminicides, rapes, sexual harassment, catcalling, domestic violence...) to yourself, your girl friends, your family... I truly believe equality will come from the union of men and women in the feminist fight, and especially when all the men (and women) will acknowledge that patriarchy damages not only the women but the whole society, including men (putting overwhelming pressure on them, 'real men' stereotypes and toxic masculinity). To me those radical women who spread hate and stuff are not feminist at all, they're just another kind of extremist and though sometimes anger can make progress (for example in France we gain the right for abortion thanks to a massive movement of anger and contestation towards the trial for abortion of a teenager girl in the 70's) it's not a long term sustainable way. There is still a long way to go till we reach equality but I sometimes find myself hopeful for the future when I see more and more people discussing feminist issues and being concerned about it (partly due to the MeToo movement). We are half of humanity so it's about time ! We matter !
I share the same opinion as you! Those so-called "feminists" aren't feminist at all and I think that they bring an extremely negative light onto the real feminist movement that looks for equality and doesn't hate on men just because.
I get it. We don't get payed as much as men, but that's less important than the fact that some women can't even leave their homes without a male relative.
id love to be able to believe the whole "portraying a character" explanation but i just can't. we all know san e isn't really innocent and has done shit he shouldn't before so to me it just seems he wrote the lyrics for “feminist” explaining how he really thinks/his opinion, didn't really think about the chaos it'd cause so he released it and then when he saw people were getting mad he came up with that as an excuse.
reading the lyrics made me angry, there was no explanation, all that was shown was hateful things towards women and then "I'm a feminist". it just seemed like he was excusing his own words. He should have stated that it wasn't his actual views, and none of this misunderstanding would have happened.
he stated FACTS that are obvious to everyone (except feminists) but no one talks about them. This is the disgusting REALITY of our world right now. and I'm a woman btw
This style is very much like the way many people say "they aren't a racist" because they have *insert other race here * friends or their sister is married to a different race. The narrator is saying all these hateful things, but then says I am a Feminist. Basically saying it is ok for him to say those things, because he is a feminist. Saying that a lot of feminists out there (extremists ) Think it is ok to hurt others and say hateful things, and say unfounded facts just because they are "a feminist"
@@TwizAngel i understand that, but because he did explain that it wasn't his views i and others assumed it was his views. If he just stated that it was from another persons point of view there wouldn't have been a misunderstanding. I'm glad it's been explained because i now understand what he was trying to say through the song.
@@perfectlyarmy5379 Well I guess my point is, he should not have had to explain, why would he have to on this song, but not others. He had to explain at this point because he was being crucified. I am only guessing that was because of cultural differences in music styles, and because it is a hot button issues.
I think that a lot of confusion on this subject is because people don`t actually realize that women can have a misogynistic mindset. Women are no better than men and men are no better than women! Of course there are some differences between the genders, but that is just anatomy. We just are born to be different: like women caring a baby, or men having more strength in their muscles. But these differences are there to be complimented, not to be an issue of a war between men and women. And this case (of differences in genders) is found in every other species on this planet, not only in humans! If people are better than animals because of reasoning (rationality) than BE BETTER AND USE IT! Instead of arguing on this subject, let`s just use common sense, get to an agreement, a common ground and do something about it, something more useful than fighting. And a lot of these issues are more spread than you think, they are not something found only in Korea. That`s why we need to be united. Otherwise it will be a constant fight like it has been in the past 10-20 years.
No one is picking a fight... only the radical feminists(which is basically mainstream feminism) are constantly out looking for trouble. Yet, we allow them to go around spouting hate and causing problems because they know how to evoke emotions in women... and we know all know how letting your emotions run wild can taint your rational mind
Totally agree and I'm a woman but I'm not a feminist. I believe in fairness, not equality. Man and woman can never be equal as we are created different. It's like arguing for equality of man's natural strength and woman's ability to conceived. That's just the way the body is build. But, I believe in fairness. For example in a group of human, the one who works harder, work smarter and contribute the most get the most reward. I believe those who have more, earned more and more capable will have bigger responsibility while those who has less, will help support their partner and improve themselves at the same time. For example in my family, my mom's wage is 2000$ more than my dad's. So, she helps pay for the bigger car while my dad pays for the smaller one. They both pay for the house and insurance. Everyone has their own role and responsibilities and should stick with it. You don't expect people to serve you they clean after too.
I think Korean hip hop is in a stage of healthy open discourse. the fact that all these artists with varying opinions could release tracks on the subject with complete confidence really shows how diverse the rhetoric of the people is.
nope, he was being misogynistic, he deserved SLEEEQ clapback. Unfortunately Jessi didnt scaried him enought to make him stop saying contradictory bullshit about girls.
You can say he may not have been until you look at visible proof of him displaying cocky jerk gestures on a very uncomfortable Irene, who clearly clenched her hands. Can’t excuse that now can you?
Wow Danny, Thank you for explaining this whole situation. I think you did a wonderful job starting this conversation that should be held worldwide and not just in Korea.
Thank you for this! Very interesting:) While i agree with some points of his: like men and women should both be obligated to go (or none of them) to the military, and they should share the bill: it seems like these points fall through... Like the second rapper says, it’s logical that men pay more if they’re paid more. And also concerning the military, it’s seems like a lot of men in Korea also don’t want to go to the military? Feminism isn’t about it being equal in quantity, it’s about having equal ability to choose. Feminism is a huge topic, and is relevant in all parts of society. While there are inequalities and dangers on both sides, I think it is accurate to say that women typically have it worse. And in the end what does one consider more pressing matters: save people from being raped, beaten or/and killed - or - save people from hate speech, the possibility of ones reputation being tarnished and having to pay more (questionable)?:) Love that you bring such topics to the attention of people outside of Korea. Please keep doing videos like this, and with other subjects as well!
Grey thank you for replying! Of course men suffer as well, and I honestly tried to write « people » so to not really create boundaries between the sexes - its a bit hard to express myself in my third language. And I agree we should tacle the problems ‘regardless’ of gender, our goal should be to make the world equal and safe for everyone. A idealistic goal, but still something we should strive for. And unfortunately the fact that men’s suicide rate is higher than women’s is true. And as you said it’s ‘self Inflicted’, I do feel like it’s every other humans task to create space and acknowledge this and make it not feel shameful for people, and especially men, to seek help with such problems. I really do not mean to invalidate the problems men face, and my wish would be for it to not be a « gender-thing ». But on the other side it’s also true that women typically are more at risk to ‘suffer’ because of something men do/are more privileged to, than the other way around. Of course this is generally speaking, and in no way am I trying to silence other important problems!
thank you so much for making such informative videos. as a non korean its very hard to pick up on all the layers of whats going on in situations such as these
Thank you for this video. I feel like everyone needs to watch it because everyone is getting offended by San E without understanding the point of his song.
so what was the point of the song?! it was left open to interpretation and did not make it clear what was to gain from this track! anyways im not against any artist cuz i dont know them personally. either way it all seems unnecessary. anyways, i respect men and women. RESPECT is what will change all these extreme macho and radical feminist BS.
Honestly, this had to be a genius move by San E. He had to have known that the majority were going to take this as his own views on feminism and used that to highlight peoples' true colors on feminism as well as spark a response ring within the music industry. It almost seems like he was waiting for Jerry K (or at least somebody of the like) to bite so that he could call him out for being one of these "feminists" from his first track. Obviously, the latter part of this could definitely be more on the coincidental side of things, and/or he used it as an opportunity to show everyone his true opinions on feminism, but there's no way he wasn't prepared for the kind of responses he'd be getting upon releasing this.
On to the second part..it's unfortunate that those women ended up being something like radicals or extremists as it just feeds the anti femms more into the idea that feminism and feminists are a bad thing. Assuming she still did actually get beat up by these men though, I am completely against. Unless she was coming at them with a weapon (which I doubt), there is no reason for a man to strike a woman. It's truly unfortunate to see people look negatively on things based on their pre-determined presumptions on it, usually decided upon by toxic or unfavorable sides of it which is generally what's highlighted and talked about through every line of press and media, even if the majority isn't in that toxic realm. If a person is falsely accused of rape, you'll hear about it everywhere you go. If someone is convicted of rape, the locals may not even be aware. And this doesn't just apply to things like feminism and activists. For instance, for the kpop fans out there, what are the top reasons people around you have a negative outlook on kpop? The assumption that it's all bubble gum and 90s boyband inspired music? That all these idols are just manufactured drones with no voice of their own? Is it the negative and toxic side of the kpop community? Or maybe the (usually) unconscious negative and belittlement attitude that many have towards Korea and Koreans (and a lot of times Asia/asians as a whole) is what's keeping them from giving the music a chance? All of these aspects are most definitely highlighted in news and media. Anything and everything is swayed by news and media. People who don't know anything about it, hear it and instantly believe it, teach the younger generations to believe the same, and continue their beliefs as they grow because the news and media (and the educational system even) supports what they've already been told is true. The t-shirt controversy is another perfect example of this.
honestly hes doing it for the clout. he's known to be liar and unloyal to his friends/colleagues and past crew (which is a big part in hiphop culture). he's an opportunist through and through, which makes him an hypocrite artist in the end.
Mark saves the world one laugh at a time well I don’t know him personally and I can’t judge him off what someone else says till I experience it first hand
Yo the way men have treated women in history, they have NEVER been placed in that position. For me San E sounds like a rich kid whining over his problems when there are bigger issues in the world. It's like putting down misandrist when there barely isn't any and still ignoring the misogynists. His problems sound like people who say "All Lives Matter" and the reason why you shouldn't say that is because it takes away from the actual issue at hand. He is just defending himself and his nonexistent career, honestly if Jessi said what she said to him to me in that talk show, y'know what I would say? I would say sorry. Instead of laughing it off and thinking her comment was cute.
tbh, at first i had lot to say but didn't bring myself to say cause i don't know what is happening in korea and he wrote the song for korean feminist and i'm not korean. I did see some issues regarding feminist that feminism is very different in south korea than other countries and to the point i don't know what is right or wrong. San e's feminist really confused me at first then i listened to it more and more and the lyrics make sense in some parts but also disagree with him in some parts as well. People were cancelling him and all in twitter and other social platform without knowing the things that happening in korea rn. I do agree with the female rapper when she stated "women have more to worry about" cause where i live even children are not safe trust me when i say this.. Thank you for uploading this and share your point of view I get to learn something..
@@sholos4478 in such a sensitive topic, you should be clear about some things. This much is common sense. it's not for our benefit but of the artist so😬
I never heard of Jerry K and after this video, I'm definitely a fan of his now. Gonna go check out his music because I LOVED what he said in "No You Are Not." Thanks for explaining the songs in this video!
This is what media has done to us. Made ppl forget to think abt things twice and rethink whether they r simply emotionally triggered like a 6 yr old kid or actually thinking like a mature person
Coming out and saying that it was "a narrator" and that it was satire is a total backtrack in my opinion. He could have made a song about misandry and he would have had valid points but instead of that, he names it feminist and he basically says that every feminist and their valid calls of injustice are the same as the misandry of radical feminists. He lumps both examples together in his song. He could say international people misunderstood because of nuance lost in translation, but as you said, most korean people thought it was his own idea and korean men praised him for it. He now cries that people misunderstood him but that's because nowhere in the song he challenges these ideas, he just states them, days after sharing the video of the "feminist" being pieces of shit, any logical person sees that chain of events and would think "the track is his response to the video, he shares the video where these girls are being men-haters and in his songs he responds to what HE thinks of feminism". I'm convinced he was vague in some places of the song to give himself some leeway, he KNEW he was going to get hated because of it, so he went "fuck it, i'll give my opinion but I can use this and this to say it was a character". The fact that his response towards Jerry K wasn't agreeing with him but getting defensive and attacking him personally shows that he means what he said in feminist.
I am and always have been a feminist. Most of the men I know are and have been feminists too. I've never been able to understand why some men oppose feminism, because, well, men believe they have more responsibility, right, and feminists say that responsibility should be equally shared. So (if men don't get any privileges) why on earth would they not want women to share responsibility? Aaah, yes. Because there ARE a load of privileges they would have to share with women! That said, I never got into radical feminism, and deplore the excesses you describe : RadFem seems to have become more extreme in this century - it was not always thus. San E's Feminist - I take on board your explanation that he is posing as a character: the trouble is that when any artist is communicating, it is the artist's responsibility to make the message clear. It seems clear that he failed in this, because by far the majority of his listeners perceived the song as anti-feminist. As a result, the responses were unsurprising. Danny K - No you are not and San E's response. Sad to say this, because I want San E to be a 'good guy' and think he might be - but instead of addressing Danny K's argument, he undertook a personal attack on him (Danny K does not seem to attack wider events from San E's life in No you're not? maybe irrelevant). It would have been more appropriate for San E to'explain' himself better - but might have been a weaker lyric, I grant you. I don't know the truth of San E;s claims in the diss, but am always suspicious of arguments on the lines of 'Well, you did THIS! which is even worse than what I did', because they don't address the original offence. It's just a pair of kids saying He hit me first. So, calling Danny K out in this way doesn't actually defend San E's song at all. Weak. Sleeq - Equalist - I thought this song was really pretty powerful and stands on its own merits )at least the bits you included. Another statistic for you ... most murdered women (about 90%) are killed by a man they have a relationship with. San E's response, 6.9cm? (I wanna be generous and round it up to 7cm - though btw, size does not need to matter) - this doesn't seem to address Sleeq's song at all. His concern about hate and blaming this on radical feminists would carry more weight if Korean men were speaking up to support women's issues and were actively supporting moderate feminists. And why do men fixate on whether RadFems are willing to 'be attractive' or not - who cares? The more they fixate on that, the more power it gives to those RadFem perceptions that women's bodies must be reclaimed. Or ... could their fixation mean that there is some truth that body judgementalism is just part of the oppression and wider danger that women fear and face daily. Wherever there is oppression, it is the responsibility of those with more power to fight to end it - look at the 19th C slave trade, slavery in the US, also in the women;s suffrage movement in the west, and, as recently as 1968, when the Dagenham Ford machinist's strike for equal pay, led directly to the Equal Pay Act in Britain and then to similar legislation in most of the world (but, hmmm ... not Korea - don't get me wrong, there's still a pay gap here and lots of other issues too). The slave cannot free the slave - that requires action from free men (and I really wanted to say free people, but Just. Could. Not.) Women can and do fight for their rights - but we need the help of men too. After all, you will be fighting for equally sharing the heavy responsibility, and a reduction of the burden on your shoulders, as well as for the safety and freedom of your daughters. What's not to like? I just wonder why every feminist meeting isn't populated by men in equal number, especially if 'normal' men support female equality. Do they speak up when the fake feminists say - I like women, but, or - They have too many parking spaces ... ? If not, why not? If they are with a partner and they both work, do they do half the housework, and tell their mates about it when they have a drink at the bar? From my little knowledge of Korea, no. I suspect that San E faced a lot of hate in response to his Feminist track, and for what it's worth, regret that. I think a moderate change to the lyrics might have been all that was needed to clarify that the track was a diss piece against the fake feminists. along the lines of ... You know those guys, right, they have a big mouth and act woke, they say ... then go into character ... For whatever reason that was not present and the rap was very unclear. That is San E's job. Why did he not consider that? Is it just possible that his track was in fact a bid for attention and controversy? I hope not You know, other than the confusion, I liked the track, but it would have been much more powerful if it had conveyed the intended irony. Danny, I'm sorry I've probably gone on for too long. Now, sit back and watch the hate come MY way. Do you have my back?
I understand that someone people don't believe that San E was being satirical which then I totally agree but if San E WAS indeed satirical I do have to agree with San E. I'm Korean and I have seen the fake feminist males and also the radical extreme female feminists. there were so many males that thought that Korea was equal or even more better for women because we have small privileges like pregnant seats and parking spots...like dude is that all you can see? can you not see that that's because we need room to breathe from this patriarchy? and yes there are radical feminist who have no idea what real feminism is. honestly in San E was being satirical I mostly agree with him.
Thank you Danny for making this all a bit clearer for us "on the outside looking in"! I personally think that San E could have done a better job at formulating lyrics so they would have been less confusing to listener to begin with, while still getting the point across. In his attempt to paint an almost satirical picture of the controversies regarding equality/feminism/the gender gap in Korea, he ends up with a very provocational piece which I guess was his plan to begin with? At the end of the day, I guess the debate stemming out of this track makes the confusion worth it. I just hope that the general discussion in Korea will reach a more level-headed place at some point, it's so polarized that it's almost imossible to imagine a civilized debate on these topics.
Thank you for this, I do feel like it understand about more about all of these songs now. I definitely thought San E was speaking for himself, I don’t think he did a very good job of making that clear. Understanding that, he’s definitely not as bad I originally thought. But by trying to critique for both radical feminism and patriarchy at the same it often seem like people are making a false equivalence that isn’t fair. I think if he had just left it at the first and his explanation, I would feel different. Like obviously extremism is bad when it occurs in the feminist movement, but I think it’s misleading to portray that as an comparable force to the patriarchy. It’s like when people complain about reverse racism, in my opinion an oppressed group being bitter hateful never has the same impact and when people focus on that they deflect from the real issue. I will say one thing for San E, the whole thing definitely gave me a lot to think about.
Also there’s another part of me that has a hard time even believing him that he’s playing a character in Feminist, the context of him releasing that video, and then this song, kind of makes it feel like maybe he just changed his stance because of the reaction.
there is no such thing as reverse racism. there is racism and it can be directed from any race or races to another. rasism is bad and wrong and thinking one can justify it because of wrongs commited in the past by one race over another is a falisy of logic.
I completely agree with his views. Even as a female in a very male dominant country, we often have the same incidents on the news. But there is a line between being a feminist and hating and generalizing all men. Also, I think feminism isn't something you decide to be or make it public as a celebrity. This is something you should fight for even when you're not in the public eye. So I totally understand and agree with the way he is portraying those types of people in his song.
One of a few parts I agree with, satirical or not, in San E's rap is the wage gap. I assume in Korea there's a equal pay act, like in the west. It wouldn't make sense for women to be paid less for the same job. If you have any evidence of this happening to you as a woman, you can sue. But the reality is that these gaps are because women choose different jobs, work less hours, negotiate less, etc. If women were able to be paid less, why wouldn't companies hire all women? It's absurd.
I'm happy you made this video. San E absolutely kills it with satire and this seems like a good way to call fake feminists on their bullshit by entertaining their views that don't stand up to reality
6.9cm really out here sampling Nicki Minaj's 'Chun Li' huh?? Thank you for putting videos up like this. As an American it's always so interesting to see what other countries are either going through or how they deal with certain things. I hadn't even known women in Korea didn't have to join the military, or that their pay gap was THAT high.
I agree with San E. I'm a American female and agree with him that if we want the same rights then we shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose which rights we want. It should be 100% the same. Personally I admit there is shit that men do that I can't it doesn't make me feel bad one bit..
Okay so what I don't get is: why didn't San E just clarify in the original song that he was "playing a character" if that's what he was doing? Obviously, he must have known that releasing a song like that would cause a hate storm, so why would he do that? He could have made his point way clearer, in my opinion.
Lol, going by the comments you've chosen to "like" you seem to not be overly fond of "feminism". I don't judge as I don't know your experiences, or the current culture. I just came to the comments section and happened to notice a pattern. Anyway, I could see this going either way. I don't know, nor am I overly vested in the situation. However based off of people who know more of his history, as well as your own acknowledgment that he did not seem to be speaking "in character" at times, I believe even if this was supposed to be a skit or whatever, there's "a lot of truth spoken in jest". And perhaps that's why you're sympathetic to his viewpoint? I'm not sure. Either way though, you did a good job explaining the different gender/cultural view point. Kudos
tbh, a faminist movement to close the inequality gap is really important in almost most of asia countries. but these annoying 3rd wave feminist movement from the west really ruins the movement. asia in general are still strong with the patriarchy system. if we want to tackle the system, then we need a different strategy.
I'm San E, thanks for the video.
I commend you for standing up against the hateful feminists in Korea. Please do not be discouraged by the nasty commenters attacking you. There are many, many people around the world who support you and agree with your ideas. Feminism has its place, but not when it's used to vilify straight men and create more division in the world.
It's very telling that San E's critics have no actual counterarguments to what he's saying, just ad hominem insults like calling him "MRA" or "misogynist." I've even seen people wishing that he be physically assaulted. Ironically, all San E's critics have done is confirm the idea that many feminists are irrational and unhinged.
아티스트분이 저희 설명영상에 직접 댓글 달아주신건 처음이네요! 감사합니다!
그저 빛
@@jordankohring8723 while ignoring all the other who took their time giving actual criticism? Yeah sure. Always look at the worst minority why don't you, that's always productive. Those threats cannot be justified, but shouldn't invalidate the sentiment of the majority. That's exactly what san e's 'character' is doing. I thought it was satire? lmao
As a african female doing a male dominated course in the university (9 girls to 100 guys) , i have experienced sexism at its' best'. I live a country where some girls are denied education because they are to aspire only to marriage." A woman who is too educated is a threat to the man, the woman will become proud and wont respect the man'' are all things i have heard from both men and women. Some women dont even realize that they are being cheated and deserve better.
Thats why feminism to me will always be a positive word. Its a word associated to women who have fought and are still fighting for the rights of women. But what saddens me are the 'radical feminists/man haters' who gives the actual feminists a bad rep.
How are women being "denied education" in the West? Aspiring for marriage and starting a family is a legitimate aspiration. Relationships are asymmetrical and it's logical for women to choose to raise children while her partner earns a wage. Feminists reduce the femininity of motherhood to a lesser position in pursuit of being closer to the male mold. It's a confused overreach IMO.
There are male and female dominated courses and domains. Prejudice is present to varying degrees for any minority; men in female dominated fields and vice versa. The big difference? STEM courses which men are overrepresented in are not systematically set up to target any demographic. The humanities do target men and races.
Radical feminists spawn there because feminist theory in the curriculum (Sociology) is rooted in Marxism--just read the literature. Replace oppressive bourgeoisie and victimised proletariat with male and female. Marxism has always been a low-resolution image of society with a clumsy parasitic blueprint intended to identify then overthrow any leading demographic.
By choosing a domain, sorting the distribution of success then defining those doing worse as victims of the successful, misinformed bitter movements are born. The self-interest is disguised behind the shield of victimisation.
Soviets rallied workers to rape, murder and plunder farmers and factory owners on the pretence of oppression. Hitler rallied Germans against Jews. Feminists use the same political theory to overthrow 'the patriarchy'.
The disguised self-interest is clear when male issues are never addressed in feminism despite proclaimed egalitarianism. The overrepresentation of men working in sewage and every undesirable and dangerous job is not the concern of feminism. Campaigning for female quotas in desirable vocations in board rooms is on the agenda. I wonder why?...
Division and dangerous psychology is inherent in feminist literature. Sometimes theory is perfect and practitioners muddy the doctrine. In this case it's repulsive theory and no surprise radical practitioners are an outcome.
Firstly i am an african girl living in west africa. So my opinion was based on my geographical location.
The women are "TAUGHT" to aspire "ONLY" to marriage and child bearing because that it what determines if you have lived a fulfilled life or not. Some of these girls are not given the chance to dream or aspire for more because it will make them undesirable to the men. So girls as young as 15 are given off for marriage, after all "their workplace is the kitchen". In fact these women actually give up their dreams and aspirations in order to fit into societies standards.
Secondly, does being ambitious as a woman reduce her femininity? .
How does a woman being able to educate herself, manage a company etc make her less feminine. If one belives that being a feminist reduces their feminity, its because they have to fight for what is right and fair hence they might not appear to be docile/submissive.
Over the years there have been male and female dominated courses. I have seen first-hand what happens when you take away gender from a course. Medicine which was previously male dominated in my school now has a large female population. If more girls were being told that they could be anything they want. I believe that the mindset that girls arent strong enough or intelligent enough to do 'something' will die out.
You talk about 'radical feminism' and i talk about 'true feminism'. Feminists do not intend to overthrow the male species. If a man believes that a woman being given the same opportunities as him means that he is being overthrown, then it goes to show that somewhere in his mind he realizes the strength of a woman and feels threated. I believe in the feminist values that makes me aspire for more.
@@rich_jg5705 You just sounded retrograder that the Line 1 people
Let's see if you get it after watchin a video, reading doesn't seem to be your deal
ua-cam.com/video/hg3umXU_qWc/v-deo.html
good for you, my friend! keep fighting. you will pave the way for a brighter future for us all
What actually saddens me is misoginy.
Okay, so let's lay this out: San E, who has had a long history of casual sexism and general creeper behavior, decides to speak out on the debate on feminism. He does this by (supposedly) parodying a male character who claims to be a feminist, but actually holds super generic ideas that MRAs usually espouse as arguments AGAINST feminism. This is his ONLY contribution to the issue. He doesn't offer any examples of what a proper feminist might be (male or female). He just highlights a very common strawman argument and pays special attention to radical fringes of feminism that true feminist theory barely even acknowledges.
Is this...his way of helping? Is this how he supports the proper movement? Because honestly, it seems like a lot of these are actually his own feelings, and he's hiding behind the idea of a "character", like A LOT of artists do, until you find out that they're actually kind of terrible IRL too.
He could've written a rap about the real problems women face. He could've dedicated at least a verse to that within this very song. But he didn't do that. He just gave more notice to the minority radicals within a larger movement. He even came back and used a penis joke and the old standby of accusing Jerry K of only being feminist for cash (because I'm sure that's a BILLION dollar industry, amirite? Social justice is always so profitable!).
I'm surprised he didn't just say Jerry K was doing it to get laid, like all the other MRA trolls online do.
I really did appreciate the explanation and breakdown, as always, but I find it REALLY hard to believe that with San E's past, he isn't just thinking about his place as a man who is going to have to straighten up and not be a creep to women, as we've all seen him do. "Lol, it was satire" is such a common excuse for when people mouth off what they really feel, and then just try to backtrack. It's hard not to believe this isn't the case here.
So worst case scenario: this is San E's real feelings and he's trying not to destroy his career. Best case: this really was an intended parody and San E is an idiot who is doing what a lot of people do that does NOTHING to help anyone and just distracts from real progress. Either way, I'm not impressed.
Just saying my opinion, he propably wasnt trying to "help" directly, but i think that his purpose releasing a track like this was exactly whats going on right now, getting peoples attention to the things that are happening right now and rising conversation about different opinions.. maybe i dont agree on the method that he used, but atleast publics attention is now on the topic and around it.
@@jennaeveliina313 That's an interesting point, but my question there is...was it not already? Because the Metoo movement has been pretty huge in Korea and I've been hearing news about feminist movements (not the crazy radical ones; the real ones) coming out of there for years. Like I said...MAYBE his intentions were good...but it's hard for me to believe that when instead of snapping back at Jerry K like a child, he could've just explained that the song is parody and what Jerry K wrote is correct. But he didn't do that. He accused a guy with a solid record of being openly feminist of "fake" feminism.
Also, and this isn't to your point, but something I wanted to point out - I think the comparison to "I'm not a Racist" is a stretch, considering you're talking about a Black man writing from the point of a white casual racist. This would really only relate if San E was a woman.
Same. Not impressed. SanE is the type of writter who lay out a whole story and in the end "it was all a dream" LOLOLOLOL i think he wanted to say what he wanted to say knowing he'd get supprt from misogynistic men, and self-hating women under the guise of a "character"
I agree with Jenna partly. I think he was just triggered by the extreme feminists (especially in that recent video) and male feminists who are supposed to get fame from feminism. But only small part of the lyrics in 'feminist' shows his diss to these two groups of people. the rest of it are about the traditional thoughts of Korean males who are attacked by real feminists. It makes his song very confusing and actually it is probably expressing his own deeper voices, which he denied afterwards though. These two things disappoint me and I agree that he did show little respect to women before (such as with Irene), so I strongly doubt his words. I think only one of his points, extreme feminism can be a crucial one if it is really becoming the most part of Korean feminism and bringing a seriously bad effect on the society. If it is, it is necessary to point it out, but he should have been more clear and more focused on his main points instead of talking nonsense. If it isn't, I think he is just a member of traditional Korean men who holds those views in his deep mind and triggered by extremists and people who are supposed by him to get fame. He does not care about the real equality between male and female, only uses strawman fallacy to distract people, to fightback and to stigmatise the real feminism.
“He doesn't offer any examples of what a proper feminist might be (male or female). “
“He could've dedicated at least a verse (about real issues women face) to that within this very song.”
“Social justice is always so profitable!”
“distracts from real progress”
Truly, the aforementioned phrases are the highlights of your comment.
Regardless of whether he took on a character or not, the lack of reference towards womens’ real issues/proper feminism/solutions to the status quo problems anywhere in his track is the issue. If he was indeed taking on a “satirical” character, wouldn’t it make sense to also include the persona/thoughts of a proper feminist who can offer solutions ?
Especially with how heated the issue of feminism is in Korea, the least San E could have done is offer some clarity on his actual thoughts in addition to taking on a confusing and controversial “character”. Why else did people respond with diss tracks? Because the track appeared to completely represent San E’s personal thoughts.
Further, isn’t San E supposedly friends with female rappers/doesn’t he have female friends? He could’ve gotten their personal insight on how the track came off as, but it’s clear he failed to do that as well.
Pretty sure San E claimed a "character" once he got called out. Can't believe people are buying this shit.
they're called "fans"
You guys should interview people on the street and ask them about these songs and what they think about them. I feel like that would be some interesting insight on a hot topic in Korea.
yes definitely!
I agreee
I would actually love to listen how other culture feels about this topic. Coming from a place where there have been a lot of hate crimes against women from all ages (even little girls under 10) is mind opening to see this issue talk about in all society
Yes, please ~
I am pretty sure AsianBoss is currently planning on that. Let's just wait
I really enjoy these videos where you're able to share more about current Korean culture, and I'm very impressed with the way you are handling the recent videos on what have been very political and controversial issues. I'd really like to see more of these. I know a lot of us come to your channel due to kpop and other parts of popular and mainstream Korean culture, but I find having this better understanding of both the current and past political and social culture, and how this is influencing the artists and the things we are seeing, both fascinating and really helpful.
Thanks :) Our motto is 'Digging deeper into the Korean Wave' and our mission is to give you a deeper look into what you see on the surface level in KPOP and Hallyu. So reading your comment made me smile :)
you have the “Where’s your manager?” look
100% agreed!
This took so much guts to post that I applaud you for doing so. I respect the fact that you are trying to help people communicate and have understanding. This is why I subscribe to your channel!
Couldn't agree more!
Either San E executed the song poorly so that noone got the satire, or he really meant what he said and now making up excuses.
If his intention was to critisize feminist crazies, then he should have stuck to one topic, omitting mentioning what average uneducated males think creating confusion. Especially after he posted Isu Station assault video
In both cases, San E failed , I guess
I commend San E for standing up against the hateful feminists in Korea.
Vanessa Ives he doesn't have sisters, that could be a noted fact to catch on.
idk. obviously it seems like he's saying it's satire now cause he's in deep shit, but can you really blame him? if you were getting attacked and loads of hate was coming your way for speaking your mind, wouldn't you? the point of the video was to show how femenism isn't needed in korea and I think he executed it pretty decently. obviously some arguments he made weren't the best but the arguments like "if you want equal pay join the army split the billetc" were really good. he was pretty much just saying the typical arguments against third wave femenism, but that doesn't make it invalid.
In either cases, he proved two points.
Firstly, he revealed this haters culture in korea, which is clearly unhealthy for individuals.
Secondly, I personally feel he proved his point about 'fake feminists', these are no feminists. Feminists work hard to change people's opinion and advocate for equality. They do not go about verbal abuse or disrespecting people opinions to make them change their minds. By forcing people's opinion to agree with yours is not true meaning of feminists or even advocacy. It is to let people understand their plight and the society agree as a whole to make a collective change for the better.
//relacc//리띾// thats just making negative assumptions. Boi bye
20:34 onwards- the points made, isn't San E the same then?
Ambiguously speaking in FEMINIST, and then LATER stating that "it was a character"/ "satire" ...sounds a little convenient to me. According to him, Jerry K is using feminism as a business tactic, then what exactly was San E doing?
Exactly.
Exactly.
My thoughts exactly!
I think that his point was to make a discussion about these topics and events that are happening in south korea right now.. more that getting payed.
honestly, i don't see how he was being satirical in the first place.. especially knowing that he has a lot of misogynistic lyrics in his songs
To be honest, even though I could buy and understand the explanation you gave, but the whole narrator thing does seem like a last minute cop out to slime away, because as you said parts of it really makes it seem like he is indeed voicing his own thoughts, I couldn't find the satirical context very prominent in his rap. As a person who studies Gender and politics and majors in it, this comment section is just a mess of people who don't know what feminism is. Feminism in plain words is for equality from patriarchy socially, economically and politically. There are extreme feminist groups within Korea but if I am not wrong Korea also has a very strong extreme men's movement that is nothing short of misogynistic. SO the divide is at quite an extreme level, which results to people not understanding what feminism truly is.
Don't even make me started with the "waves" of feminism, I've studied about it enough. People in the comments who say- oh all waves were fine, but this third wave is so problematic"
First, third wave is over. We are on the fourth wave factually. Second, each wave dealt with it's own issues from suffrage and now it's dealing with sexual violence which however you phrase it is a huge issue all over the world.
Now essentially feminism is not meant to be a men hating bandwagon but South Korea in this case has turned out to be like this because of the extreme opinions on each side.
But coming back to San E, I personally do think he did not do a great job of making it obvious that this was a so called "satire".
^ i second
AGREED. It's hilarious how people are talking about something they obviously haven't researched and critically thought about. Like you said, feminism is for equality from patriarchy, which in turn, HELPS MEN. Like Jerry K said, men are the ones who created patriarchy in the first place -- so it helps men too. This comment section is disgusting lmao
I wish I could pin this comment to the top of the comments section somehow so that everyone could read it.
I think it's really important, and so many people seem to come from a place of misunderstanding what feminism is and what has gone on before. It's not only in Korea that some parts of the movement have turned out to be problematic due to extreme problems, and it's happened in history too - but really that's the nature of ALL political and social movements.
There will always be a section that will be extreme and take things too far - the key is to not loose sight of the good that is trying to be done, and to not 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' as the saying goes (at least in my country)
@@imnassa Absolutely patriarchy was a system created by men, it intended to keep them on top and systematically oppress women but it affects both genders now and feminism in essence tries to get rid of it. Not to mention how people throw around the word "radical" feminism, not knowing that the actual definition of radical feminism is saying that gender and sexual oppression is the primary social cleavage in society, radical feminism no where talks about an extreme form of hate.
@@missynutt_ Exactly!! But that's the thing people are so brainwashed with half baked facts that they think are right, the go forward and talk anything that is misinformed but will say it in such a way that will make people think it's true and that's so sad I swear.
Honestly felt like SanE contradicted himself a lot. The “narrator” story seemed a bit like a cop out and his response to Jerry K’s diss track only reinforced some of the things that this “narrator,” who’s allegedly separate from himself, believed. It’s extremely telling that people were still backing him after the original track was released with no context/explanation.
The only sane response here.
EXACTLY
Honestly, I did back him before the explanation was put out there. If you have ever listened to San E's other music, you can tell this is a style he has done before. WanneBe Rapper is just one instance. I think that song had a lot of people angry, and they are using this track as a way to spread "hate" about him in an "accepted" way. Many rap songs play a character. Especially in American rap, which it is obvious he leans towards that style. The only issue with this particular song, is it is about a really hot button issue in Korea right now, and extremists are jumping on the chance to condemn him, and don't care to actually pay attention to the intent of the song.
Dusti Witmore I’ve listened to his other music and I still thought the lyrics to this song were extremely pointed. Most people interpreted it that way as well. Not everyone is going to have extensive knowledge about an artist’s intent before listening to their songs, and the point of him contradicting himself still stands. If he was aware of how sensitive the topic was, then he just willingly dig himself into a hole.
@@ughmina I honestly think you are missing my point. They were pointed on purpose. He was calling out people on the fact they claimed to be Feminists on one hand, then said/did things that are completely opposite. That is why he contradicted himself, it was on purpose. Like I said in other comments, it is very much like Joyner Luca's I'm not racist, which was mentioned in this video. It is like people saying things like "Black men don't care about their kids and abandon them, but my sister is married to a black man, so I can't be racist" San E is taking that same hypocrisy "Hey women want to be equal so now you should be forced to serve , or start paying for more things. Oh and I can say this because I read a book on feminism and I am a feminist now" He is making fun of people who claim to be woke, and claim to be out there fighting the good fight, but ONLY when it suits them or makes them look good.
I'll be honest: when Jessi mentioned in Happy Together, that when fights occurred during Unpretty Rapstar instead of stopping them as an MC he would be egging them on, I was very disappointed. I heard a bit of his music before and to me he seemed like great artist and a good guy. But after that, I reconsidered my opinion of him.
Now, when the whole Irene incident happened that's where I started to dislike him. No matter how much of a sunbae you are, it's almost like a unwritten law in the Korean Entertainment industry that female idols and male idols/singers/actors etc, do never make (skin)contact with each other unless it us required from the script or if they are friends. I'm not even Korean, but I think almost everyone who watches Korean television knows that. That said, he clearly out of no where, put his arm on her while sitting next to her.
I've read the comments, in his defence people say he was only teasing the audience, merong-ing or whatever. However you could clearly see she was uncomfortable because of it. You don't just invade someone's private space like that. Especially not to a female celebrity. It shows lack of respect. In a society where a little rumour could cause a lot of damage to a career. Putting her in that spot was very disrespectful, not to mention an invasion of personal space in a place it was uncalled for. One incident I could forget, but he tried to pull that same stunt Twice!
Regarding his music, he is allowed to say and call himself whatever he wants. But to me, actions speak louder than words. A man who does not respect a woman's personal space like that, is not someone I could support.
There is no such thing as a bias in my dictionary „Especially not to a female celebrity“ that’s a yikes from me on that one.
This big essay just to say you dislike him just because one action...
wouldn’t you think Irene could defend herself?
Preach
You kinda sound like those feminists in his song... You're being prejudice against men. I'm Korean American and where I live people with that mindset are called traditional koreans. Their mind is still stuck in the past believing that men should do everything for women. If Irene was a male and San E a female, would you say the same thing? Okay they're uncomfortable with it but think about it from San E's perspective. I think because of all the backlash from people like you its a part of what made him make this song.
Half of the comment section don't know what feminism is 💀💀💀
@sad sushi Ikr. I like how this person assumes anyone who doesn't support 4th wave feminism doesn't know what feminism is lmao. The ignorance is real with this one.
trashified 3rd wave* there is no 4th wave??
@@shivtrbl Bro, I thought the same thing but this "politically correct" and woke person told me that the third wave was over or some shit. They're pretty much the same thing, so I said 4th wave to not trigger people lmao
@sad sushi god go back to harassing anita sarkeesian or whatever you gamergaters do now lmao
feminism is like you life in woman mind only , can you think that?
JERRY K STRAIGHT UP HIT IT ON THE HEAD THOUGH.
My exact same reaction to "we're all victims of the system" was "yes, but who imposed it?".
Jerry made a mistake with Malik, but even that was probably because he took such allegations very seriously.
Definitely don't trust San E after "fake propaganda".
@Kiki South Korea (like many other countries) was in once very patriarchal. Therefore, men had the power and influence to establish gender norms and ideas of what it means to be male or female.
@Kiki wait what? Don't you know history? Until the 20th century nearly no woman had even been touching a position like one of a politician who can set these roles. Sure, women could have stood up for themselves but how are they supposed to do that when they're teached that they're supposed to just agree and play along? Men have set the standard of mostly everything and it's only in the last 100 years that women have gotten the right to vote in western countries. They still don't have the right to vote in a lot of other countries. I'd like for you to go to one of those countries and to a male politician and ask them if women set the roles in their society? Do they have any power or is it all in the hands of men? I think they'll answer the latter.
Kiki It seems like you are the one who knows absolutely nothing about biology or even behavioural sciences.
No matter how much people like you try to pretend it, gender norms are not related to biological facts. There's nothing in a female's body that would make one act traditionally feminine. Gender norms are a sociological thing, and only exist because of the origins of the society we are living in. Back in Antiquity and Middle Ages a patriarchal society made the most sense because humanity as a whole needed to protect and control the ones who held reproductive power but we are transitioning into a transhumanist era and those beliefs are useless as life is no longer in constant danger anymore.
@Kiki
To add on to my comment which you fam, totally ditched: YOU said women AND men put together the traditional roles HENCE I was answering THAT statement which was, in your comment, a different paragraph from the biological part. So please. Come up with some arguments instead of shutting down the convo with some bashful comments directed at people who genuinely want to educate others. I think you don't want to know anything else than what YOU think is true and therefore you won't listen to Even Einstein's reasoning. If that's the case I don't think you should start a discussion since discussions like these are made to win over someone else's argument by logical reasoning. Not shit-talking each other.
Women and men did not create the gender roles. Men took the higher rank and women took the lower rank and to make sure the women weren't doing something they shouldn't (like breaking these norms) men teached them exactly what was expected from them and how useless they would be at anything else. This is not something biological. This structure isn't NEEDED for survival. This is social construct and basic knowledge when you study psychology, social science, norms, social structures, history etc.
its disgusting that y'all hearted his comment.
honestly i think this "narrator" or "character" thing is just to cover his ass because he messed up with a powerful and serious movement
I can't help but be distracted by Idol playing in the background at the beginning HAHA but thanks for talking about this - been trying to make some sense of all this going on and this was helpful to listen to!
I was distracted by all the KPOP in the background tbh
1:10 + 4:08 Twice - " What is love? " and "Dance The night away" in the background not distracting enough 😂
I'm glad I wasn't the only one. I didn't even noticed the tv until EXO's Tempo appeared and then it caught my eye. We have issues.
I was holding myself from saying this but same lol
LOL two male rappers battling over who's the better feminist.... yikes. It's fine to open up a conversation, but San E especially seemed to contradict himself a lot... He was saying similar stuff in both songs even though one is supposed to be a character and one isn't? And why does he have to post that video on SNS... he is highlighting a crime where yeah probably the women are in the wrong, but there are countless crimes where men are violent to women? Where are those videos?
@@KamKamKamKam exactly haha! what is she talking about "where are the videos of violent men?" xD what is the point of posting a video like that, its super obvious who did wrong *facepalm. the thing is that every one will ALWAYS take a womans side over a mans side, its interesting and scary to see how this men got hated all over korea, even though it was all a lie :O
Based on this explainer, it seems like at the end of the day San E did not really say very much on the topic of gender inequality itself, but rather focused on two versions of feminism that seem easy to attack: feminist men who end up being insincere, and radical feminists who espouse misandry. First, I’d question if these two visions of the feminist movement are truly representative or even accurate. Second, it seems he may have contributed to trivializing or dismissing feminism by focusing on these two potentially straw men targets. I say all this with just the small amount of context given in this video about the current conversation in South Korea. But basically, that’s how this situation appears to me. I get there is a “point” to his criticisms of the two groups, but he also weirdly misses the point too. It’s like he forgot that there was a real problem to be addressed, and instead seemed much more outraged or provoked by the peripheral foolishness that sometimes arises - such as from extremism, or the commodification of movements like feminism. And I wonder if San E’s “confusion” as I would call it, in contributing to this conversation is also just another manifestation of society not truly taking gender inequality seriously or in an urgent enough way.
you have expressed what I am feeling about San E's stance exactly
Yes! Agreed...if it really was all a character 👀
"And I wonder if San E’s “confusion” as I would call it, in contributing to this conversation is also just another manifestation of society not truly taking gender inequality seriously or in an urgent enough way" now that you said it, makes sense I was a something I didn't considered before. For me was more a matter of nuanced references getting lost in translation but your view of it is super interesting to reflect about.
I have listened to San Evs whole discography, he often likes to be sarcastic and he often does it just to point out the problem. It is a problem in his songs and of feminism today that pointing out a problem doesn't necessarily mean you are offering alternativea, so in this way he is exactly portraying the reality of our social movements. At least, this is what I think.
Sara Minaj what other topics has he satirized in his songs? I’m curious what the rest of songs are like, because I guess, I don’t currently feel he is all that qualified to address the topic he did. I could be wrong. I feel that feminism is a pretty important but divisive topic. Everyone has a personal stake in it, as it affects our lives deeply. But his attempt at satire may have been too lighthearted or callous? I do think feminists are trying to call attention to a problem that not a lot of people want to do something about. It’s easier to stay in a holding pattern. For instance, with the gender pay gap issue, to fix it, you have to raise women’s wages. Where will that money come from? Will it require redistribution? Will men have to wait longer for their own raises? And that’s in a situation when a man and a woman doing the same job gets and deserves equal pay. And If more women apply for higher paying jobs, will that mean fewer opportunities or competition for the men who want those jobs? And if so, will that create resentment among men? So I think changes to create equality are going to be difficult. And this is just an example of just one “type” of inequality between men and women. Other types aren’t even as clearcut as economics. There are also the differing society pressures and assumptions toward male and female genders that exist to keep things the same. We already have gut reactions, usually negative ones, when people behave in a way that do not meet our expectations. When a person defies our expectations, such as a woman being assertive at work in the same way as men, will we look down on her or will we just treat it as natural the way we do with men? Anyway, those are just the most common examples of how difficult of a topic feminism is. To me it’s fine and hardly matters if people like San E tried but failed to address this topic well. Unless you see actual effort put in, how can you expect much more than what is? What San E did sort of changes nothing, really. But that’s it. That’s the problem. It changes nothing, when actually, change is needed.
*As a Korean man, I want to explain what is going on in Korea. PLEASE READ BELOW.*
English ain't my first language so please understand any grammar mistakes.
Media is portraying SAN E as if he's ruining his career. As someone who can actually see the reality of current situation by being *IN KOREA*, San E is actually doing better than ever with immense amount of support. It's unfortunate see all of these comments saying that he's digging himself down to the grave and attacking him. It's a sad reality to see a lot of hateful comments toward San E when most of you are accessing what is going on through articles and videos.
Basically, there are radical feminists community (e.g. Megalia, Womad.. etc) in Korea. They call themselves "feminist" but they are not.
Most of Koreans (men and women) are fighting towards Korean radical feminists right now, including San E. But a lot of celebrities are very careful with them because of their man power (the community has so many people in it, they can literally terror their target through social media.. etc).
They are literally KOREAN men hating community that sexually harasses Korean men and underage child (mainly towards penis sizes saying it's 6.9 cm, which explains one of San E's song name).
Their activity includes chocking male street cats, hidden camera recording towards Men's bathroom, sharing how to kill Korean men with "Ethylene glycol" or other deadly chemicals such as acid, attempted murder towards underage, attempted murder towards their father(because their father is Korean men),
posts pictures of fetus saying "I had an abortion, should I feed it to the dog", *harassing and congratulating their death towards male celebrities (e.g. SHINee Kim Jong Hyun, Kim Ju Hyuk)*, harassment towards Korean war veterans, Korean male baby penis picture leakage (violation of The Act on the Protection of Children and Juveniles from Sexual Abuse), taking and leaking photo of croquis model (nude model for sketching) in Hongdae Univ, mixing birth control pills in male co-worker's drink, and ruining people's life by shutting down restaurants or businesses by creating false rumors using their community and twitter (this happens very often).
There has been numerous reports of radical feminists faking sexual harassment on purpose to ruin other man's life.
Because of this, the idea of "helping women when they are in danger" is a big no no because there has been many cases when someone helped a women in danger, and he got sued for touching her.
There are so many other worse cases and things that I could write but I can't think of it straight out of my head because there are so many of them. These are not "what they did", these examples are what they are doing constantly towards Korean society. I can find links from their archived community if you wish but they are in Korean so I don't think it matters.
If you knew how to speak Korean, just by reading one of their tweets can make you feel sick just by how discussing it is.
One of the many reasons why Korean woman are afraid of expressing themselves as feminist is because Megalians made the term "feminist" into an evil ideology in Korea.
There are terms that Megalians (radical feminists) uses very often. Here are some minor examples. The term 한남 (Han-Nam) is abbreviation for 한국 남자 (Korean Men) which is used to look down on Korean men (similar idea with saying n words towards Black people). The term 기생충 is a word in Korean meaning "parasite" which is used to call Korean male fetus by the community. The term 재기하라 means "Go kill yourself" towards Korean men and the term is originated from a Korean man who killed himself. The term 갓양남 is abbreviation for God Western men which is used to praise western men and look down on Korean men.
Even if San E is known for being a creep, it's nothing compared to what the radical feminists are doing. He is not fighting alone and that is why he's doing well in Korea.
Please rethink and comment.
Thanks I pretty much caught that in a general sence from the song Feminist. The song does a very good job of showing what a real feminist is vs a radical feminist. I feel really bad for the Men and Women of South Korea who are dealing with these crazed radicals.
THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS
I can read Korean and if it's not too much, can you just give me one link so i can read through it ?(even if it might be too much to stomach) . Also I appreciate this added perspective on this current issue.
I agree that radical feminist is harmful but this did not erase the fact that he is an ignorant and his opinion has impacts on women movement in Korea as well.
Wow thank you for this. I had no idea. I really appreciate you sharing the realities that are happening in Korea
“Mansplained” sksks
kkkkkkk
@@23dft 맨스플레인. 페미진영에서 남성이 조목조목 반박하면 '오빠가 왜 틀렸는지 설명해줄게' 같은식으로 우주방어하려고 만든 논리 엿바꿔먹은 최종병기.
Kefera dhshhdsh
It's obvious that wasn't satire.
i think this vid is my biggest disappointment from dkdk
uuuh it's not the first time San-E uses satire in his songs, it's something he uses a lot, and if you cared about doing your research you would've known
@@dekoppyon you have no self respect for yourself yikes
@@s...5885 you see, I do, that's why I do my own research and have my own opinions instead of jumping on the hate wagon 🤷♀️
@@dekoppyon he said the wage gap doesn’t exist...
sleeq is lit . she's not playing
She's incredible 👏👏
Can we point out how she never attacked san.e personally! Love it!
About to go look her up after this any suggestions
@@postive2 some of my favorite sleeq songs are 'ma girls', 'liquor', and 'one and only'. :)
i guess you guys are just kpop listeners , she is shit
im going to criticize the narrator of the video just for the bit about "people thinking theyre woke just because they cut their hair". it may not seem like much to you, but in a society where women are pressured into wearing makeup to the office everyday, where they are less likely to get a job if they dont wear makeup to the job interview, your appearance IS political, whether you want it to be or not.
exactly. women with short hair get insulted and ridiculed for being a rebel where I live. oh she wants to cut her hair short, a new thing to backbiting about these modern feminists
San E's had a suspicious history, and I feel as though the "character" he's playing is just a way to push the blame off himself as he spouts his honest opinions regarding feminism. Also, *SLEEQ* is wayyyy too smooth to be slept on. Her flow was incredible from what I heard, I need to look into her more.
Halfway through the video I was about to stop and comment “Did San E explicitly state that this was a satire or is this something you are just assuming based on how ridiculous the song is because nothing about the translation nor the way you are explaining it hints at it being a ‘character’ other than you saying that it is a character?” But I’m glad I watched until the end. Honestly I believe San E belatedly stating that it was a satirical song and waiting for a diss track of all things to state this was not a very smart move. With the state of things in South Korea right now which I have gathered from this video and some of your other live-streams you would think it would be common sense to maybe add in a line about how “these lyrics are not my own thoughts.” And from the translation you gave it is quite hard to tell if he is in fact playing a character or not especially the end portion that includes the reference to the gangnam incident because that really seems like his own views . There are plenty of rappers who say controversial things through characters like for example Tyler The Creator, but even he kind of in a way explicitly states that it’s a character. A simple line in the beginning like “They be like...” or the korean equivalent would have been enough to change the entire song. Also I’m not sure how his song helps anything because from what I saw online and from some of the things you said, his song has only brought the people who think like this out of the backwoods and made them feel validated. It vaguely reminds me of how trump kind of incites racists in America to be more bold with their actions. What do you think? Also some of the common stuffs you mentioned happening in SK right now like the “date” violence is kind of frightening. I knew things were bad but not that bad.
Once again thanks for making this video even though i’m still kind off unsure about some of the things said it brought to light some of the issues that I as someone who is not living in SK wasn’t aware of.
I agree with you. I think it's a little strange only saying it was a character afterwards, it feels like a cop-out. it's almost like he actually meant what he said in feminist but when the diss tracks and drama started pouring in, he regretted putting it in a song and said it was "just a character".
I'm not saying this to attack him, it's just what it feels like from my perspective.
I feel like he decided to state it was satire afterwards to get people to listen even if it made him look like a villain. To maybe open peoples eyes and strike up a debate between people about a serious issue.
Terra A. that's valid
@@catarinabarbosa2247 Furthermore, he doesn't have a sister and as Jerry K said, he didn't ever serve in the military, so he thought it was clear from the lyrics that he wasn't actually portraying himself.
Sue Yi the “sister” part I think is just to say “Girl” and it happened to alliterate with system so he used it.
I don't really see how he's portraying a different narrator rather than represent his own views.. I think if he was being satirical, he should've made it more clear. But whatever the case is, it's pretty disgusting that most of the Korean men share such views as depicted in the lyrics. And the fact that they didn't know San E was "dissing" them (if he was) and were praising him for "spitting facts" is so stupid lol. Anyways, I didn't know Korea was THIS behind in gender equality and it's shocking that many Korean men still don't know what the essential problem is.
Are you even from Korea? If you're not, you shouldn't be talking about the issue.
@@Jms02 first of all - i am korean, and second of all, that shouldn't matter - why the fuck should non-koreans not be allowed to voice their opinions about this issue?
@@MusicIsOxygen25 Maybe because they don't know about what's going on in Korea, they're talking about feminism in their own country so it's gonna be different than what Korea's feminism is like. Thats why 🖕
@@Jms02 you are fucking ridiculous. danny literally states in this video that many korean men actually do share the thoughts in san e's lyrics, and you just immediately attacked me, thinking i was a foreigner, although i was talking about the actual reality of korea. well according to you then, since i'm korean and actually know what's going on here, you can shut up :)
dude you think that this view point is only in Korea? I hear this shit ALL the time in the U.S. Men everywhere are behind its just the men in the U.S. are better at hiding.
Why San E didn’t get sued for copyright reasons is beyond me. This is a legit diluted copy of “I’m Not Racist”. Not only from the delivery but the actual bare bones of the beat. I understand what San E was trying to do with his lyrics. He wanted to be a lyrical genius like Joyner Lucas but unfortunately his lyrics flopped when at the end - in a sense, he turned out being the very hypocritical feminist he raps and disses in his song. Nice try but the fact that this sounds like the non-impactful version of “I’m Not Racist” with misguided hypocrisy didn’t work on me.
You’re trying to convince me that San E - the same guy who objectified Irene on stage to the point where she gripped her own hands underneath the table for comfort, the same guy who not only edged on women against women fights on “Unpretty Rapstar” but encouraged and ignited it, the same guy who openly devalues women in the public eye - is actually a feminist? No thank you. I’m not buying it and you’re not buying me with the lyrics or this explanation.
This WASN’T a rap in support of women or feminists. This was a rap to eliminate WOMAD. Don’t get it mixed up. He could’ve used this rap to empower the true feminists but instead he used this rap to focus on the few but extreme “feminists” who weigh down the movement.
You can’t make Stupid sound smart. Sorry San E.
Nice try.
Next.
I also think that at very least, at times in the song san E was in fact portraying his own views, and something that annoyed me about what he was saying is when he talked about how women not wearing bra's, not shaving their armpits and cutting their hair being funny and saying they shouldn't because he 'likes their hair long', i think the whole point is that they don't care or at least don't want to have to care about what guys want and doing these things might genuinely make them feel free and good for them, it's also ironic because just before that he talks about how men don't enforce their beauty standards on women. Anyway just wanted to that it annoyed me.
simran kaur read the lyrics again.
I think about them cutting their hair short not wearing bras etc. wasn't aimed at women in general who do it but for women who do it because of the whole corset free movement thing and partaking in that makes them feel "woke". Personally I kind of agree with that point because I even do some of those things but not because of a movement but because it makes me feel comfortable but at the same time I think the corset free thing is kind of making women who meet stereotypical beauty standards because they genuinely like those styles self conscious because they aren't doing this thing that's supposed to support women. At the end of the day just do what makes you feel happy, if that's wearing mini skirts and tight bras and loads of make up go for it if it's wearing baggy clothes and no bras and not shaving your armipt hair go for it!
But that was intentional though. I myself have experienced that, my Korean ex-boyfriend would say "you look pretty in anyway" but if I ever brought up the topic of cutting my hair (not even very short), he'd say "I like your hair long." So San E was referring to that, how guys will say they don't enforce beauty standards on women, but they are very quick to point out what they like or not in a woman. It shows the hypocrisy of men.
@Yuju Waterbottle there are beauty standards from both sides (the height for men is a good example) but for women is a lot worst. I lived in South Korea, and the pressure placed on girls to "be pretty" is crazy. They criticized women a lot more than men, in every way.
@Yuju Waterbottle we are talking about South Korea where women are pressured a lot more about their appearance. I dont know any woman who thinks men can change their height. Any rational person would know you cant make someone taller or shorter. I dont know who you've met
This comment section needs to google the words "intersectional feminism" and go read works by Bell Hooks and Angela Davis, just to name two. And that's just the start. There’s so much to unpack and if you actually cared about making the world a better place and LEARNING and listening, then you’d do your research thoroughly before spitting hate. Don't spew what you don't understand, cause it's obvious none of you did your research and critically thought about the lyrics from these songs. Jerry K and SleeQ rapped straight up facts.
👏👏
Straight up🙌🏼
Bless! And yasssss to bell hooks
👏👏👏👏👏
Louder Please
Honestly? Thanks for the mansplanation.
BUT. I don't buy it to be very honest.
I am an avid fan of satirical and dark humour and also a feminist. And I can tell you, I can actually see the difference in the song. Like in the beggining sounds a bit like he is portraying a character by the tone of his voice but then it seems he just lost himself in the rap, and it was his, I guess, normal and fluid rapping voice.
And that's why I can't take sides with this guy which just took a controversial topic in order to people to talk about him. Before I didn't know who he was but now I do. He won.
And you know what I can't support as a satirical person myself?
Satire being used in the name of giving you the right to be racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc.
Satire is a way to make fun of tragedy and oneself in the crudest way possible and it doesn't have to include something you are not directly involved with.
Many people won't understand my point and think I am wrong but that's where I stand.
This guy is just like the guy who killed himself. Just an attention seeker and not really a feminist.
Also this San E guy calling out this Jerry guy for taking advantage of the situation when he started the whole thing? Can't take him or Jerry seriously.
And Sleeq, she is amazing 👏👏👏.
About the bar situation. That's what pisses me off. ONE stupid girl doing something radical in the name of feminism but when guys do something or anything bad, it is not "all guys".
yes say it louder
Who are you to tell an artist how his song is to be perceived, when he is the one who wrote it with the intention of it being satire?
@@Flyed First of all, music and art is all about interpretation - saying that a piece should be only perceived in one single way would actually be disrespect to the artist. Secondly, satire is the use of humor, irony, ridicule, etc to criticize something, but it's not clear what he is criticizing here, as the very people he was "criticizing" were actually praising him. It's completely valid to think that this wasn't a satire as a music listener.
@@MusicIsOxygen25 No, this is completely different. Feminist is a song from San E's viewpoint, it isn't just generalized lyrics that come from nobody in particular. When someone is showing his perspective and thoughts, you can't take that and skew it, as that reflects on San E as a person. It's not an interpretation to deny the author's intentions, its ignorance.
@@Flyed ?? You literally said it was a satire but then now say the lyrics are from his own perspective and thoughts? Nobody is "denying" the author's intentions because in this case his intentions are not clear. You would be an example of this: you literally said that the song is from San E's viewpoint and that the lyrics aren't generalized, but if it was a satire, then the lyrics would HAVE to be about the generalized thoughts of the men that he is criticizing, not his own perspective and thoughts.. so I have no idea what you're trying to say. You're contradicting yourself, and that is enough evidence to show that his intentions are very ambiguous. That's when interpretations can come in, and they are obviously going to be different depending on different people.
I just wanna say few things.
1. Maybe the radical feminists started the argument but violence cannot be NEVER be justified in any means. If you are annoyed by people just walk away, don't beat them to the bone.
2. San E is know to be a liar and a person who easily betray friends and colleagues, since SMTM3. He is always ready to change his version and lie about stuff. He never said in first place that the song was about 'a korean man who thinks he is feminist but in fact he is not' he just posted with no explanation. Someone criticized him because he did not researched about OECD datas and instead of saying that he was not him but he was portraying someone else, he just apologized saying that he should have researched more, so he was indirectly admitting that these were his thoughts. But later on, since this became a hot topic, he changed his mind saying that these were not his thoughts but he was portraying someone else.
3. San E should just shut up since he was rude many times to women and female celebrities before. Do you remember when he was joking and he lean on Irene's shoulder with his arm? She was visually uncomfortable but he did not stop. Later, while performing, he was spitting sexual lines while looking and pointing at her. Do you think this is a respectful behavior, dear San E?
4. Even if this was his real intent from the start, he indeed portrayed men in false way. I live in Korea and male feminists are really few. Most men don't even try to fake being feminists and they swear at feminists very easily. They also joke and mock girls who are attending female universities, having short hair, not shaved body, not wearing makeup etc saying they belong to Megalias. But it's not. They just generalize women and feminists too easily. The kind of man San E described is not very usual. There are no men who say they are feminists and say shit like that except for himself lol most men just hate feminists in general thinking they are crazy and all radical.
5. Feminism in Korea is a very complicated matter. Some of feminists are radical and they use 'mirroring' as a way to mock men exactly like men do with women. (Ex. Men mock women who have small boobs, too skinny, too fat etc and women mock men for having a small penis lol) Most of them think that men are inferior to women. BUT this is a real small portion compared to all the feminists in Korea. A lot of them are well-educated and they know statistics. There are also gender studies in some universities. I found many feminists between university students and also professors. They don't mock men because they don't need to. In Korea, though, there is a very bad image about feminists because media tends to portray just radical feminists because they do very weird stuff that can attract viewers. If you just report about people protesting to get stricter laws for those who use hidden cameras is less entertaining and eye-catching then reporting about the free corset movement videos where they destroy their makeup very violently, according to the media, right?
Thanks for reading until here, have a nice day.
페미니스트들이 폄하당하는거 때문에 레디컬페미니스트들이 싫으면 페미니스트들끼리 자정작용을 해야 되는데 않하니까 욕을 먹죠.
제가 보고 들은 페미니즘은 남성혐오라는 점 밖에 없습니다.
@@fakfac3 아니 제가 영어로 썼는데 왜 한국어로 쓴 댓글은 나오지 ㅎㅎㅎㅎ 아무튼 다행이 제가 충분히 한국말을 할줄아니까 답변을 드릴게요. 아시다시피 페미니즘은 정당이죠. 정당 안에 의견이 하나밖에 있는게 아니라 다양하게 있을수있죠. 우파를 응원하면 우파들과 함께 항상 잘 지내는게 아니고 의견이 다르니까 갈등이 날때가 있고 좌파를 응원하는 사람들도 똑같죠. 그러나 정당마다 레디컬부분도 있지 않아요? 그럼 왜 레디컬부분을 왜 안 없애지죠? 할수없니까요. 사전을 보시면 페미니즘은 "성별로 인해 발생하는 정치ㆍ경제 ㆍ사회 문화적 차별을 없애야 한 다는 견해"라고 하고 남녀평등을 응원하죠. 이 헛소리를 하시는것보다 공부를 좀...
I wonder if radical* feminists realize that, it isn't "men get treated better" there's about 50% of men who don't even get along with the other 50%, There's men who act with over-pride and others that are compassionate. In general there is hate everywhere for EVERY reason, always has been, even thousands of years ago. So it seems dumb to categorize a group that is filled with so many different kinds of people. We got men and women who sometimes have the highest position and abuse their power, and we have hardworking men and women who don't even get paid a cent all over the world. No matter what country I hope people really understand that.
It's never about who has the worst problems, that kind of thinking doesn't even land you a relationship with anyone if you live with the mentality of "I/We went/go through more than you"
We can't fix hate, we can't fix death. You want to fix it? then you end up getting a dystopia where people have to follow everything to the book, and we all know how that turns out.
@@DejikoUnicorn
1. I think you are talking about Isu Station assault where all the claims made by females so far, has proven to be false. To name a few, the fight was startled by women, they were the first to take physical action. They started filming and, they were first to hurl insults at men, which was contrary to their claims. Furthermore, the police arrived 4 minutes after the incident, contradicting women's claim that the police came after 30 minutes. Also, police separately questioned women and men while women claimed that they were questioned together. Furthermore, the wound was not severe and men deny beating the woman while the women claim that men hit them. For me, the men's claim is much more persuasive because all the claims made by women were shown to be false by video recordings, police and bystander testimonies.
video footage of part of the event. ua-cam.com/video/mHjNPWMs51g/v-deo.html
2,3 I don't follow Korean celebrities so I don't have a say on this.
4. The reason why many Korean males think that most feminist are Megalias or Womads (radical feminists) is that those groups are the most active groups. If there is a Feminist cafe/blog that is bigger, more influential than Megalia or Womad in Korea, please name them. I would like to know.
The biggest Feminist protest in Korea is the Haehwa Station Protests. There has been 6 of them so far and the number of protesters is estimated to be 10,000-15,000 each protest. I still cannot believe one of the slogans during the protest was men should commit suicide. (재기해)
5. I want to believe that Feminism in Korea isn't the one portrayed in the media. If there is a feminist cafe, a group that actually calls for equal rights for both sex, please leave me a link.
@@sungwonkim4424 1. I know what happened. I know that the girls started the fight but even if it's true I don't think it's acceptable to hit a person until you see their skull just because they attacked you first verbally. I mean if me and you are fighting for any reason, is it ok to start punching me in the face? No right?
4. They are not the most active groups, they are the most spoken groups. Medias don't care to portray feminists group fighting to take stricter measurements about porn culture in Korea but they prefer to talk about the No Corset movements and post videos and pictures of radical feminists destroying their makeup. It's more entertaining for most people. I can just tell you to look up about feminism more because there are many feminists in Korea that don't need any cafè or blog. I follow few youtube channels who talk also about feminism like "닷페이스 .FACE". There are many different protests where they don't say 재기해 and the purpose of it is just gaining more rights and changing some laws. I am a feminist myself and I don't agree with saying commit suicide because I don't wish them to die. I just want more rights for myself, my fellows and the people I love. And the thing that men should understand is that they can benefit from feminism too... it's not just about women.
5. As I said before I don't follow cafès but there are few youtube channels and some facebook pages that are nice. Just search it.
The only valid one here is sleeq, an actual woman who knows what she's talking about when she speak about sexism cause she lived it
Truth
@Music Is My Religion Not sure where you're from but reverse sexism is not a reality in Korea.
@BTS ARE NOT HIP HOP are you alright in the brain buddy?
7:05 do they ever think women might be depending on men financially because of the frEAKING wage gap???? If you give women less money you are literally putting them in a position where they hAVE to rely on someone else 🙄
IDK MAN girl of course your jk stan being all intelligent out here like i thought it was just me that *clearly* saw it as a cause and effect situation
Lmao, that's because the wage gap is fake.
Employers aren't giving women less money for doing the same work as men. If that was the reasoning, then wouldn't employers be RUNNING to grab some female employees so that they don't have to pay them more than men? It doesn't make sense.
It's not that women are being paid unequally. It's either (1) there aren't enough opportunities for women, or (2) women chose not to utilize opportunities. About 56.9% of Korean women are employed, while about 76.3% of Korean men are (according to OECD). When the rates are like that, how do you expect women to earn more than men? Not to mention, women are expected to take on a more traditional role at home, so men do more work and more hours, while the woman stays home and takes care of the kids.
The gender wage gap has been debunked several times throughout the years, and I didn't know if it applied to S. Korea until I looked up the facts in OECD. And it turns out that it does apply. Feminism shouldn't be advocating for "equal pay" and shit. It should be advocating for more opportunities or encouraging more women to be a part of the workforce.
But who says that raising children at home isn't any better than working? I don't judge the women that decide they'd rather have a successful marriage with kids, because that may be more valuable than looking through papers all day and earning cash to satisfy your materialistic desires.
trashified maybe it used to be a thing, but I honestly don't see it nowadays. Perhaps it does happen rarely today but goes undocumented.
Also culture and the gap of when men started working and females they will always have a head start in the economical industry no one can deny that
wage gap doesn't exist, sis.
The point is that this E guy is cherry picking. There is satire YES but it’s more slanted towards women the entire “Satire” . So is this a satire of Some Korean men regarding feminism or Feminists themselves??? Just because someone says the song “is supposed” to be ONE thing does not mean the intended purpose still does not underly. This rap was not about the Korean mans struggle which is quite frankly from my view very real. It was a not so sly way of imposing his own thoughts on feminism and the REAL life or death situations placed upon women for just existing. Just because you call a banana and apple does not make it an apple. Just because he called this a satire of some Korean men’s thoughts on feminism does not mean he is a feminist.
"this E guy" 🤣🤣
You thought that he was playing a character in 'feminist'? Thats interesting, i thought his lyrics were his literal thoughts- it stirred up quite some chaos in sk. What do you think about the song??
Holy moly, and I thought it was bad to talk about feminism in my country.
You sound so cute! 😊
Hi Danny. Big thank you for doing this, and the other one on the Korean survivor of Hiroshima. You do have a fine penchant for politics, and being able to think through popular culture things politically! Keep up the good work! Hwaiting!
Thank you for this. I am not sure, if it is because I am American, or what, but I picked up on the satire from the very beginning. This song, is very much like a lot of American rap songs, from people like Eminem, and Dre. I took it as he was calling out the "Fake Feminists" not saying this was how he felt. Why did people jump on this as him being himself, but don't think other songs artists sing are "fact" and how they actually feel? Do they think that songs are all artists true thoughts and feelings? I would venture to say.. No. Thank you for referring to him as the Narrator. In this song I felt he was bringing to the light the fact that the 2 groups have extremes and fake fronts. This song is very Americanized. As was mentioned, he is an American Citizen. If you listened to, and watched WanneBe Rapper, no one thought he was being serious, but this they are? That song was based off of This is America. Why is it this one has to be "true"?
It really reminds me of Joyner Luca's I'm not racist in terms of its structure and intentions
@@DKDKTV I totally agree. That was is what I thought of when I heard this. The back and forth on how each side doesn't know the fight of others. He was calling attention to the people who think they know, but have no idea how hateful their words are, when the actions do not match.
@@TwizAngel ok I wasn't the only one who felt this way. As soon as I read the lyrics I understood what he was trying to say.
i thought the same ! From the beginning i knew/tjought it wasn't San E speaking but a character like we commonly see in some rap song, the structure of the text was shouting "satire" the entire time i read the lyrics, so i didn't understand why everybody threw him under the bus without thinking twice
I mean the message is obvious, its just fake woke twitter trying to bring down everyone.
I kind of also wish we could start wording ourselvesmore carefully. Misandrists becoming the face of South Korean feminism is super different from a war between the sexes. That just primes people to take sides, when the real issue at hand is certain factions of women being extreme and violent. That kind of thing makes even actual feminists scared to identify as such.
Amrita Ramesh yes !! you snapped off this was exactly what i was thinking
Thanks. This makes a lot more sense to me than when I first listened to the song. I was unclear whether these were San e's opinions or the opinions of some Korean men in general. I"ve seen on the street videos where young men have voiced their discomfort of changes in the society and the fact that some women while wanting to be independent also what everything paid for them down to their purse while making good incomes themselves. As some who was alive during the original feminist movement in the U.S. a lot of what I am seeing is the growing pains of change and not a whole lot different than what men were saying when it happened in the U.S. and what made it worse was that some women too didn't roles to change for women either. It is hard to convince men that there might be some long term benefits coming from the change.
I think that the video of Emma Watsons speech at the UNICEF explain very well the privileges that men would also have if there was gender equality. It's not only political but also cultural in the entire world, little things happen in a woman's life like being called in the street, being afraid of going out, or at school when if you win over a guy in sports they will say something like "hahaha you've got beaten up by a girl" as if it meant that he is weak, it's all just things that are here every day as if it was the most normal thing in the world, and I know alot of girls who say that they aren't feminist because they say it's not attractive enough. They give up their rights to be seen attractive and I dont understand that, even some girls themselves think that they should always stay at a mans side but man dont really think this way towards women and I think that its mainly because of the movies you grow up with as a kid when you think about it the most popular are always like the guy save the girl and the girl only thinks about having a boyfriend. But I'm happy that more and more things change and people as well kids grow up in a better environment and the movies become more and more varied about the positions that Male and female characters have.
@@liagauthier6396 Years ago back in the early 70s we didn't have a girls basketball team in junior high. It was before the U.S. federal law mandated that school have girls sports program equal to boys. So some girls decided they would try out for the boys team. It causes a bit of a ruckus but the coach allowed the girls to try out for the team. Two of the girls made it on the team but one of the stipulations was they had to wear they bow ties on game day like the male members of the team which they did. The next year the new federal law started so they switched to the girls team. I guess you would say they were feminist but beyond that they just wanted to be free to pursue what they were good at.
In high school one of my friends decide to push the envelope and take car mechanics. She was the first girl to do that and believe she got teased a bit. But she did it. It is the little things that make change. The guys in my school took cooking class because they figured out they could eat better and meet girls. Sometime you have to get men on board by non conventional means.
Many men don't think about the subtle ways men's views affect their moms, sisters, girlfriend and wives are until something happens to them and as men, because of the system, they are powerless. Then they understand that it isn't just a woman's issue but a man's issue too. There is nothing that will change a man than to have his daughter denied access to opportunities because she is a girl or woman or to have her sexually harassed in the school or work place. What we are really talking about is creating a shift where women and girls have the ability to live safe and free to pursue their dreams. We don't have to use the label feminism if that is the issue we can call it basic human rights. Whenever we uplift women rights in a society then the rights of children girls and boys not to be physically and sexually abused are also put into place. It is about protecting the most vulnerable in the society against poverty and physical and sexual assault.
@@lifetobelived9102 yes you are right, but in the end what really is feminism? Is it believing that girls are equal to guys or is it just wanting to live their dreams regardless of who they are? I think it's both, I think its connected and that we are slowly getting better, even if it's not the case at least girls speak more and more about it and that makes people that aren't like you said: fathers, husbands, or grew up in a patriarchal family to understand better. I think that you can be feminist just by leaving your dreams and fight for them, but it's so weird that once you say you are you think that your dity is to go out the streets and make justice for women, I think it's fair enough to make justice for ourselves in a daily life, it's with little things that the world change: like what those girls in the basketball team, they didn't think they would change anything they just did what they wanted to do, and yet they made a lot of people understand that sport is not specified for guys. And by the way I think that it would be pretty cool if they mix guys and girls during sports at school, I am French and in France we mix guys and girls together but I know that in some countries it's not the case and I am sure a 100 percent that people only get better by mixing.
@@liagauthier6396 To be honest I hated mixed gym classes because boys would make games like dodgeball and volleyball a blood sport and I don't have an athletic bone in my body. Some girls who are good do play on independent sports team. My friend's daughter has played hockey on guys teams and at first the guys on the opposing teams wouldn't give her any hard shots until they realized she was really good.
@@lifetobelived9102 it's exactly the point, the guys in the school I was were exactly the same, I fought hard to prove them that I wasn't any worse than them in sports and not only have I prove them wrong but also encourage girls to keep up and show that they are good cause I knew alot of girls who could be really strong but they just didn't make any effort because they knew the boys would make fun of them, how many times have I heard because I won over a guy "You're not a girl you're a guy!" But then again just by winning it proves them wrong, and make them better
Misandry isn't gonna go away as long as men continue to think they can speak for women on such issues as women's rights. 🙄
U mean misogyny isn't gonna go away unless wahmen stop feeling so entitled
Misandry is like 5%, misogyny is like 95% sorry i forgot men can't take pain and are so weak.
@@shakira7301 That's quite some projection there. Must be on ur periods 🤣
@@JohnWick-oj6bw both ig
@@shakira7301 you’re kinda stating the point on the person whom u replied to
he jumped in the han river to raise money for his mens rights movement i’m sorry i have to SCREAM
As for the extra parking spaces for women - I'm a bit confused as to why some conservative korean men are upset about it, what are they used for in SK?
Where I live, women's parking spaces only exist in (most but not all) car parks (is that what they're called in English? Lmao, idk I mean those underground parking lots) - they're close to the exits and telephone cells, not to mention brighter illuminated and often supervised closely (sometimes there's an actual security guard there). There're usually only one or two rows of them and most of the time women don't even use them.
The reason they exist is because of the (in the past) rather high percentage women being raped in car parks if they're alone (or let's face it, without a male companion) since they're usually not that crowded, rather dark/uncanny and the surveillance is...well, pretty shit (most of the time there's nobody really "watching" what happens, just recordings). So although women's parking spaces don't prevent rape in any way, they make it easier to escape, get help and identify the offender. So basically: as a woman, if it's late at night, you're all alone and are feeling unsafe/anxious or just have a bad feeling about being alone somewhere uncrowded and basically "off the radar" (like for example if you're rather young), not to mention if you've been a victim of rape in a place like that or in general before, you can park there.
That's just how I know them though, I've no idea how it's in South Korea! :)
it feels like they're using it as an excuse to talk about "discrimination against men".. when in reality, there is a legit reason as to why they were made like you mentioned
@@MusicIsOxygen25 yes, that's exactly what they do.
Gender pay gap exists and it is not because woman do not want to do dangerous jobs, woman parking lots exist because of rape done by man.
First of all men shoud end their toxic behaviours, bevore they cry crocodile tears.
@99 Bottles of Bleach it isn't and women who are less payed feel annoyed about your" argument".
@99 Bottles of Bleach you are the one beliving in myths I know lots of women who were payed less than men in the same job. Women who had better education than men working for less just because they were women. I heared employer's say " Men earn more at this company because they are Men"
Who are you to talk to me like that?
@99 Bottles of Bleach 🤦 oh boy, grow up
It's very hard to believe he's playing a character.He raps just like he always raps and there's nothing satirical about his lyrics.When other celebs do Alter Egos you clearly know its not them,for Example Nicki Minaj.She plays Roman Zolanski,a crazy man.You can distinct him from Nicki,cause he is a lot louder,pronounces things differently and raps about things that Nicki usually doesn't comment on.You know when she does Roman and when not.However in this case,if SanE wouldn't have said he played a character nobody would have had the idea he's not being himself.
I enjoyed all the raps that came out of this situation but I've got to say that I don't think he's being honest with his "character". Initially I would agree because of his lines about having read on book etc but the more he talks about it the less it seems like a character. The point of satire is to take the topic to an extreme, where you make a situation ridiculous but that's not what happens here. He just spouts talking points that blur a bunch of ideas together and gives him enough room to be offended when someone responds to it.
I don't know man. Doesn't seem legit to me.
It's really weird that this dude explaining is liking only the comments that somehow imply that San E's song is deep/misunderstood. Not to mention San E's comment itself. Gross.
I'm sorry but I just don't see how this is satire. It just doesn't read that way to me, because as a feminist I know the types of people this song portrays. The use of the term 'fake fact' rings especially true, because here in america we have a massive problem with our president and other powerful people calling legitimate truths 'fake news' or 'fake facts'. i also know san e and him being this type of person really makes sense, based on the lyrics and cultural insensitivity he has shown in the past. Also, whether it was intended as satire or not becomes irrelevant, because this is a powerful, well respected man putting out these views as his own. In addition to this, san e has lived in America, a society that is more enlightened towards feminism. Words have power, and San E. Should. Know. Better.
so true - it just seems like he took the easy exit out after receiving criticism and 2 diss tracks that were full of nothing but truth and facts
al pha the issue with averages is it can be skewed by outliers (people with high wages or really low wages or part time jobs) in the US. I feel like the issue is that the wages could be less or more. I do however believe there is still misogyny involved in certain systems. South Korea, however, is a country that has its problems with sexism and I honestly believe that none of us should really be talking about Korea
al pha you’re all good! No worries it’s good that you understand why I said what I said ☺️
99 Bottles of Bleach no news outlet is legitimately true because we all have biases and it can show by how we choose to portray things in the news.
whats wrong with your president? has he done anything wrong?
Very interesting video again and I like that you're not being judgemental and just exposing facts and explaining the lyrics to us. San E FEMINIST lyrics is the typical speech I encounter in my everyday life when the subject of equality or feminism pops out, basically men telling women how to fight for their rights and how to be a "good feminist"... That's just exhausting you know, the eternal 'not all men' chorus and shit, while you see sexist crimes happening everyday, every hour (Incels, feminicides, rapes, sexual harassment, catcalling, domestic violence...) to yourself, your girl friends, your family... I truly believe equality will come from the union of men and women in the feminist fight, and especially when all the men (and women) will acknowledge that patriarchy damages not only the women but the whole society, including men (putting overwhelming pressure on them, 'real men' stereotypes and toxic masculinity).
To me those radical women who spread hate and stuff are not feminist at all, they're just another kind of extremist and though sometimes anger can make progress (for example in France we gain the right for abortion thanks to a massive movement of anger and contestation towards the trial for abortion of a teenager girl in the 70's) it's not a long term sustainable way. There is still a long way to go till we reach equality but I sometimes find myself hopeful for the future when I see more and more people discussing feminist issues and being concerned about it (partly due to the MeToo movement). We are half of humanity so it's about time ! We matter !
I share the same opinion as you! Those so-called "feminists" aren't feminist at all and I think that they bring an extremely negative light onto the real feminist movement that looks for equality and doesn't hate on men just because.
"The system" is in fact society, witch is compose with people. Is not a foreign entity, but all us.
Well, diddly damn barnacles! I guess I somehow contributed to the system by breathing!
Did people even watch the video? Judging from comments, they didnt
💓
Either that or they didn't finish watching the video.
I get it. We don't get payed as much as men, but that's less important than the fact that some women can't even leave their homes without a male relative.
id love to be able to believe the whole "portraying a character" explanation but i just can't. we all know san e isn't really innocent and has done shit he shouldn't before so to me it just seems he wrote the lyrics for “feminist” explaining how he really thinks/his opinion, didn't really think about the chaos it'd cause so he released it and then when he saw people were getting mad he came up with that as an excuse.
reading the lyrics made me angry, there was no explanation, all that was shown was hateful things towards women and then "I'm a feminist". it just seemed like he was excusing his own words. He should have stated that it wasn't his actual views, and none of this misunderstanding would have happened.
he stated FACTS that are obvious to everyone (except feminists) but no one talks about them. This is the disgusting REALITY of our world right now. and I'm a woman btw
This style is very much like the way many people say "they aren't a racist" because they have *insert other race here * friends or their sister is married to a different race. The narrator is saying all these hateful things, but then says I am a Feminist. Basically saying it is ok for him to say those things, because he is a feminist. Saying that a lot of feminists out there (extremists ) Think it is ok to hurt others and say hateful things, and say unfounded facts just because they are "a feminist"
@@TwizAngel i understand that, but because he did explain that it wasn't his views i and others assumed it was his views. If he just stated that it was from another persons point of view there wouldn't have been a misunderstanding. I'm glad it's been explained because i now understand what he was trying to say through the song.
@@perfectlyarmy5379 Well I guess my point is, he should not
have had to explain, why would he have to on this song, but not others. He had to explain at this point because he was being crucified. I am only guessing that was because of cultural differences in music styles, and because it is a hot button issues.
@Too Beautiful To Handle Nice no true scotsman there
Really convenient, next time I fuck up I will say “I was playing a character” too. Really smart move. I applaud
sameee
I think that a lot of confusion on this subject is because people don`t actually realize that women can have a misogynistic mindset. Women are no better than men and men are no better than women! Of course there are some differences between the genders, but that is just anatomy. We just are born to be different: like women caring a baby, or men having more strength in their muscles. But these differences are there to be complimented, not to be an issue of a war between men and women. And this case (of differences in genders) is found in every other species on this planet, not only in humans! If people are better than animals because of reasoning (rationality) than BE BETTER AND USE IT! Instead of arguing on this subject, let`s just use common sense, get to an agreement, a common ground and do something about it, something more useful than fighting. And a lot of these issues are more spread than you think, they are not something found only in Korea. That`s why we need to be united. Otherwise it will be a constant fight like it has been in the past 10-20 years.
No one is picking a fight... only the radical feminists(which is basically mainstream feminism) are constantly out looking for trouble. Yet, we allow them to go around spouting hate and causing problems because they know how to evoke emotions in women... and we know all know how letting your emotions run wild can taint your rational mind
Totally agree and I'm a woman but I'm not a feminist. I believe in fairness, not equality. Man and woman can never be equal as we are created different. It's like arguing for equality of man's natural strength and woman's ability to conceived. That's just the way the body is build.
But, I believe in fairness. For example in a group of human, the one who works harder, work smarter and contribute the most get the most reward. I believe those who have more, earned more and more capable will have bigger responsibility while those who has less, will help support their partner and improve themselves at the same time.
For example in my family, my mom's wage is 2000$ more than my dad's. So, she helps pay for the bigger car while my dad pays for the smaller one. They both pay for the house and insurance.
Everyone has their own role and responsibilities and should stick with it. You don't expect people to serve you they clean after too.
"the narrator", you act like this is not what he really thinks
@Bridget McBride lmao and he displayed cocky gestures on a lady who visibly clenched and unclenches her fists in discomfort.
I am slamming the thumbs up button so hard right now!!! Love love love this! Danny I think can be an investigative/documentary journalist!
I think Korean hip hop is in a stage of healthy open discourse. the fact that all these artists with varying opinions could release tracks on the subject with complete confidence really shows how diverse the rhetoric of the people is.
*This* is original content.🙏
Thank you guys for the hardwork🙌
nope, he was being misogynistic, he deserved SLEEEQ clapback. Unfortunately Jessi didnt scaried him enought to make him stop saying contradictory bullshit about girls.
I think that people believed that’s his own words ‘cause he has many misogynistic songs.
The follow-up diss he did made it seem even more like it tbh.
You can say he may not have been until you look at visible proof of him displaying cocky jerk gestures on a very uncomfortable Irene, who clearly clenched her hands. Can’t excuse that now can you?
Wow Danny, Thank you for explaining this whole situation. I think you did a wonderful job starting this conversation that should be held worldwide and not just in Korea.
BRUHHHHHHH SLEEQ DID NOT COME TO PLAY!!!
She went off!
She sucked
Ceez Waeyo The people who are upset are people who don’t like the truth lol
@@Starfire10982 truth is that both misogynist and misandrist are toxic and don't help at all
Yes Si Except she wasn’t a misandrist and she stated facts.
Thank you for this! Very interesting:)
While i agree with some points of his: like men and women should both be obligated to go (or none of them) to the military, and they should share the bill: it seems like these points fall through... Like the second rapper says, it’s logical that men pay more if they’re paid more. And also concerning the military, it’s seems like a lot of men in Korea also don’t want to go to the military? Feminism isn’t about it being equal in quantity, it’s about having equal ability to choose.
Feminism is a huge topic, and is relevant in all parts of society. While there are inequalities and dangers on both sides, I think it is accurate to say that women typically have it worse.
And in the end what does one consider more pressing matters: save people from being raped, beaten or/and killed - or - save people from hate speech, the possibility of ones reputation being tarnished and having to pay more (questionable)?:)
Love that you bring such topics to the attention of people outside of Korea. Please keep doing videos like this, and with other subjects as well!
Grey thank you for replying! Of course men suffer as well, and I honestly tried to write « people » so to not really create boundaries between the sexes - its a bit hard to express myself in my third language. And I agree we should tacle the problems ‘regardless’ of gender, our goal should be to make the world equal and safe for everyone. A idealistic goal, but still something we should strive for.
And unfortunately the fact that men’s suicide rate is higher than women’s is true. And as you said it’s ‘self Inflicted’, I do feel like it’s every other humans task to create space and acknowledge this and make it not feel shameful for people, and especially men, to seek help with such problems.
I really do not mean to invalidate the problems men face, and my wish would be for it to not be a « gender-thing ». But on the other side it’s also true that women typically are more at risk to ‘suffer’ because of something men do/are more privileged to, than the other way around. Of course this is generally speaking, and in no way am I trying to silence other important problems!
@Grey I agree completely! Thank you as well for a pleasant conversation:)
thank you so much for making such informative videos. as a non korean its very hard to pick up on all the layers of whats going on in situations such as these
Thank you for this video. I feel like everyone needs to watch it because everyone is getting offended by San E without understanding the point of his song.
No one is going to complement this man's review? Good job. Side note: we're all hypocrites.
Idk how this could be unbiased when there’s clear sarcasm in the title. “Mansplained”, huh? Alright.
dkdktv i trusted you and now you're supporting meninists... a crying today
so what was the point of the song?! it was left open to interpretation and did not make it clear what was to gain from this track! anyways im not against any artist cuz i dont know them personally. either way it all seems unnecessary. anyways, i respect men and women. RESPECT is what will change all these extreme macho and radical feminist BS.
Honestly, this had to be a genius move by San E. He had to have known that the majority were going to take this as his own views on feminism and used that to highlight peoples' true colors on feminism as well as spark a response ring within the music industry.
It almost seems like he was waiting for Jerry K (or at least somebody of the like) to bite so that he could call him out for being one of these "feminists" from his first track.
Obviously, the latter part of this could definitely be more on the coincidental side of things, and/or he used it as an opportunity to show everyone his true opinions on feminism, but there's no way he wasn't prepared for the kind of responses he'd be getting upon releasing this.
On to the second part..it's unfortunate that those women ended up being something like radicals or extremists as it just feeds the anti femms more into the idea that feminism and feminists are a bad thing. Assuming she still did actually get beat up by these men though, I am completely against. Unless she was coming at them with a weapon (which I doubt), there is no reason for a man to strike a woman.
It's truly unfortunate to see people look negatively on things based on their pre-determined presumptions on it, usually decided upon by toxic or unfavorable sides of it which is generally what's highlighted and talked about through every line of press and media, even if the majority isn't in that toxic realm.
If a person is falsely accused of rape, you'll hear about it everywhere you go. If someone is convicted of rape, the locals may not even be aware.
And this doesn't just apply to things like feminism and activists. For instance, for the kpop fans out there, what are the top reasons people around you have a negative outlook on kpop?
The assumption that it's all bubble gum and 90s boyband inspired music?
That all these idols are just manufactured drones with no voice of their own?
Is it the negative and toxic side of the kpop community?
Or maybe the (usually) unconscious negative and belittlement attitude that many have towards Korea and Koreans (and a lot of times Asia/asians as a whole) is what's keeping them from giving the music a chance?
All of these aspects are most definitely highlighted in news and media.
Anything and everything is swayed by news and media. People who don't know anything about it, hear it and instantly believe it, teach the younger generations to believe the same, and continue their beliefs as they grow because the news and media (and the educational system even) supports what they've already been told is true.
The t-shirt controversy is another perfect example of this.
I totally agree with you that this has to be a genius move by San E. Sparking debates. Making a song that most people wouldn't dare attempt to do.
Yh he seems to be very smart 😁..it’s quite interesting to see the reactions
honestly hes doing it for the clout. he's known to be liar and unloyal to his friends/colleagues and past crew (which is a big part in hiphop culture). he's an opportunist through and through, which makes him an hypocrite artist in the end.
Mark saves the world one laugh at a time well I don’t know him personally and I can’t judge him off what someone else says till I experience it first hand
Yo the way men have treated women in history, they have NEVER been placed in that position. For me San E sounds like a rich kid whining over his problems when there are bigger issues in the world. It's like putting down misandrist when there barely isn't any and still ignoring the misogynists. His problems sound like people who say "All Lives Matter" and the reason why you shouldn't say that is because it takes away from the actual issue at hand. He is just defending himself and his nonexistent career, honestly if Jessi said what she said to him to me in that talk show, y'know what I would say? I would say sorry. Instead of laughing it off and thinking her comment was cute.
tbh, at first i had lot to say but didn't bring myself to say cause i don't know what is happening in korea and he wrote the song for korean feminist and i'm not korean. I did see some issues regarding feminist that feminism is very different in south korea than other countries and to the point i don't know what is right or wrong. San e's feminist really confused me at first then i listened to it more and more and the lyrics make sense in some parts but also disagree with him in some parts as well. People were cancelling him and all in twitter and other social platform without knowing the things that happening in korea rn. I do agree with the female rapper when she stated "women have more to worry about" cause where i live even children are not safe trust me when i say this.. Thank you for uploading this and share your point of view I get to learn something..
Really can't say anything right now. He should have been clear before posting the song that his character does not represen this own thoughts
Being spoon-feed the interpretation of a song, eh?
@@sholos4478 in such a sensitive topic, you should be clear about some things. This much is common sense. it's not for our benefit but of the artist so😬
I never heard of Jerry K and after this video, I'm definitely a fan of his now. Gonna go check out his music because I LOVED what he said in "No You Are Not." Thanks for explaining the songs in this video!
Same!
This is what media has done to us. Made ppl forget to think abt things twice and rethink whether they r simply emotionally triggered like a 6 yr old kid or actually thinking like a mature person
Personally I think SanE didnt do a good job. He starts out the song with "blame the system not man" but.. who created the system? Men lmao
Thank you for continuing to make videos like this
Coming out and saying that it was "a narrator" and that it was satire is a total backtrack in my opinion. He could have made a song about misandry and he would have had valid points but instead of that, he names it feminist and he basically says that every feminist and their valid calls of injustice are the same as the misandry of radical feminists. He lumps both examples together in his song. He could say international people misunderstood because of nuance lost in translation, but as you said, most korean people thought it was his own idea and korean men praised him for it. He now cries that people misunderstood him but that's because nowhere in the song he challenges these ideas, he just states them, days after sharing the video of the "feminist" being pieces of shit, any logical person sees that chain of events and would think "the track is his response to the video, he shares the video where these girls are being men-haters and in his songs he responds to what HE thinks of feminism". I'm convinced he was vague in some places of the song to give himself some leeway, he KNEW he was going to get hated because of it, so he went "fuck it, i'll give my opinion but I can use this and this to say it was a character". The fact that his response towards Jerry K wasn't agreeing with him but getting defensive and attacking him personally shows that he means what he said in feminist.
!!!!!
I am and always have been a feminist. Most of the men I know are and have been feminists too. I've never been able to understand why some men oppose feminism, because, well, men believe they have more responsibility, right, and feminists say that responsibility should be equally shared. So (if men don't get any privileges) why on earth would they not want women to share responsibility? Aaah, yes. Because there ARE a load of privileges they would have to share with women! That said, I never got into radical feminism, and deplore the excesses you describe : RadFem seems to have become more extreme in this century - it was not always thus.
San E's Feminist - I take on board your explanation that he is posing as a character: the trouble is that when any artist is communicating, it is the artist's responsibility to make the message clear. It seems clear that he failed in this, because by far the majority of his listeners perceived the song as anti-feminist. As a result, the responses were unsurprising.
Danny K - No you are not and San E's response. Sad to say this, because I want San E to be a 'good guy' and think he might be - but instead of addressing Danny K's argument, he undertook a personal attack on him (Danny K does not seem to attack wider events from San E's life in No you're not? maybe irrelevant). It would have been more appropriate for San E to'explain' himself better - but might have been a weaker lyric, I grant you. I don't know the truth of San E;s claims in the diss, but am always suspicious of arguments on the lines of 'Well, you did THIS! which is even worse than what I did', because they don't address the original offence. It's just a pair of kids saying He hit me first. So, calling Danny K out in this way doesn't actually defend San E's song at all. Weak.
Sleeq - Equalist - I thought this song was really pretty powerful and stands on its own merits )at least the bits you included. Another statistic for you ... most murdered women (about 90%) are killed by a man they have a relationship with.
San E's response, 6.9cm? (I wanna be generous and round it up to 7cm - though btw, size does not need to matter) - this doesn't seem to address Sleeq's song at all.
His concern about hate and blaming this on radical feminists would carry more weight if Korean men were speaking up to support women's issues and were actively supporting moderate feminists.
And why do men fixate on whether RadFems are willing to 'be attractive' or not - who cares? The more they fixate on that, the more power it gives to those RadFem perceptions that women's bodies must be reclaimed. Or ... could their fixation mean that there is some truth that body judgementalism is just part of the oppression and wider danger that women fear and face daily.
Wherever there is oppression, it is the responsibility of those with more power to fight to end it - look at the 19th C slave trade, slavery in the US, also in the women;s suffrage movement in the west, and, as recently as 1968, when the Dagenham Ford machinist's strike for equal pay, led directly to the Equal Pay Act in Britain and then to similar legislation in most of the world (but, hmmm ... not Korea - don't get me wrong, there's still a pay gap here and lots of other issues too).
The slave cannot free the slave - that requires action from free men (and I really wanted to say free people, but Just. Could. Not.)
Women can and do fight for their rights - but we need the help of men too. After all, you will be fighting for equally sharing the heavy responsibility, and a reduction of the burden on your shoulders, as well as for the safety and freedom of your daughters. What's not to like?
I just wonder why every feminist meeting isn't populated by men in equal number, especially if 'normal' men support female equality. Do they speak up when the fake feminists say - I like women, but, or - They have too many parking spaces ... ? If not, why not? If they are with a partner and they both work, do they do half the housework, and tell their mates about it when they have a drink at the bar? From my little knowledge of Korea, no.
I suspect that San E faced a lot of hate in response to his Feminist track, and for what it's worth, regret that. I think a moderate change to the lyrics might have been all that was needed to clarify that the track was a diss piece against the fake feminists. along the lines of ... You know those guys, right, they have a big mouth and act woke, they say ... then go into character ... For whatever reason that was not present and the rap was very unclear. That is San E's job. Why did he not consider that? Is it just possible that his track was in fact a bid for attention and controversy? I hope not
You know, other than the confusion, I liked the track, but it would have been much more powerful if it had conveyed the intended irony.
Danny, I'm sorry I've probably gone on for too long. Now, sit back and watch the hate come MY way. Do you have my back?
I understand that someone people don't believe that San E was being satirical which then I totally agree but if San E WAS indeed satirical I do have to agree with San E. I'm Korean and I have seen the fake feminist males and also the radical extreme female feminists. there were so many males that thought that Korea was equal or even more better for women because we have small privileges like pregnant seats and parking spots...like dude is that all you can see? can you not see that that's because we need room to breathe from this patriarchy?
and yes there are radical feminist who have no idea what real feminism is.
honestly in San E was being satirical I mostly agree with him.
I’m 30 seconds in and already distracted by idol in the background lmao
Another great video DKDKTV!! As for the topic, I understand each track more now.
Thank you Danny for making this all a bit clearer for us "on the outside looking in"!
I personally think that San E could have done a better job at formulating lyrics so they would have been less confusing to listener to begin with, while still getting the point across. In his attempt to paint an almost satirical picture of the controversies regarding equality/feminism/the gender gap in Korea, he ends up with a very provocational piece which I guess was his plan to begin with? At the end of the day, I guess the debate stemming out of this track makes the confusion worth it. I just hope that the general discussion in Korea will reach a more level-headed place at some point, it's so polarized that it's almost imossible to imagine a civilized debate on these topics.
Thank you for this, I do feel like it understand about more about all of these songs now. I definitely thought San E was speaking for himself, I don’t think he did a very good job of making that clear. Understanding that, he’s definitely not as bad I originally thought. But by trying to critique for both radical feminism and patriarchy at the same it often seem like people are making a false equivalence that isn’t fair. I think if he had just left it at the first and his explanation, I would feel different. Like obviously extremism is bad when it occurs in the feminist movement, but I think it’s misleading to portray that as an comparable force to the patriarchy. It’s like when people complain about reverse racism, in my opinion an oppressed group being bitter hateful never has the same impact and when people focus on that they deflect from the real issue. I will say one thing for San E, the whole thing definitely gave me a lot to think about.
Also there’s another part of me that has a hard time even believing him that he’s playing a character in Feminist, the context of him releasing that video, and then this song, kind of makes it feel like maybe he just changed his stance because of the reaction.
A SANE VOICE
there is no such thing as reverse racism. there is racism and it can be directed from any race or races to another. rasism is bad and wrong and thinking one can justify it because of wrongs commited in the past by one race over another is a falisy of logic.
I completely agree with his views. Even as a female in a very male dominant country, we often have the same incidents on the news. But there is a line between being a feminist and hating and generalizing all men. Also, I think feminism isn't something you decide to be or make it public as a celebrity. This is something you should fight for even when you're not in the public eye. So I totally understand and agree with the way he is portraying those types of people in his song.
One of a few parts I agree with, satirical or not, in San E's rap is the wage gap. I assume in Korea there's a equal pay act, like in the west. It wouldn't make sense for women to be paid less for the same job. If you have any evidence of this happening to you as a woman, you can sue. But the reality is that these gaps are because women choose different jobs, work less hours, negotiate less, etc. If women were able to be paid less, why wouldn't companies hire all women? It's absurd.
I'm happy you made this video. San E absolutely kills it with satire and this seems like a good way to call fake feminists on their bullshit by entertaining their views that don't stand up to reality
6.9cm really out here sampling Nicki Minaj's 'Chun Li' huh?? Thank you for putting videos up like this. As an American it's always so interesting to see what other countries are either going through or how they deal with certain things. I hadn't even known women in Korea didn't have to join the military, or that their pay gap was THAT high.
when I first heard Jerry's diss track: wooh yes
when I found ot what his company did: woah no..
What did they do ?
These comments are just sad, San E is wrong. He needs to shut up and listen to women so he learn what is feminism...SleeQ ate his ass up!!!
Agree
@@user-uv9gz2ef1b wow this is such a sad take.
I agree with San E. I'm a American female and agree with him that if we want the same rights then we shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose which rights we want. It should be 100% the same. Personally I admit there is shit that men do that I can't it doesn't make me feel bad one bit..
I agree
Okay so what I don't get is: why didn't San E just clarify in the original song that he was "playing a character" if that's what he was doing? Obviously, he must have known that releasing a song like that would cause a hate storm, so why would he do that? He could have made his point way clearer, in my opinion.
This is awesome. Thank you so much for creating such dope content!!
Lol, going by the comments you've chosen to "like" you seem to not be overly fond of "feminism". I don't judge as I don't know your experiences, or the current culture. I just came to the comments section and happened to notice a pattern.
Anyway, I could see this going either way. I don't know, nor am I overly vested in the situation. However based off of people who know more of his history, as well as your own acknowledgment that he did not seem to be speaking "in character" at times, I believe even if this was supposed to be a skit or whatever, there's "a lot of truth spoken in jest". And perhaps that's why you're sympathetic to his viewpoint? I'm not sure. Either way though, you did a good job explaining the different gender/cultural view point. Kudos
tbh, a faminist movement to close the inequality gap is really important in almost most of asia countries. but these annoying 3rd wave feminist movement from the west really ruins the movement. asia in general are still strong with the patriarchy system. if we want to tackle the system, then we need a different strategy.
Not doing your hair or "grooming" yourself doesn't make you woke
What if i wanna do it just because i don't want to shave?
@@l46525 exactly, your doing it because you want to. Shaving doesn't mean that your better or woke you just have a hairless vagina.
‘blame the system, not men’ yeah totally as if us women don’t get degraded and put down by men constantly.
How
Thank you for this video and I'm so excited to have some Korean feminist rappers to listen to!