even with Airpower, the rumors of the presence of a Tiger Tank was often enough to hold up Allied advances. it was better than anything the western Allies had, even when such tanks as the M26 Pershing and Centurion were put into the field. that said, if the resources put into the Tiger, King Tiger, and their respective adaptations (Jagdtiger, Sturmtiger, etc.) had been put into more Panthers or even Panzer IV's, the ground war would have turned out differently.
For my Grandpa Pappy (Robert Lynch Sr) and his brother Harry (who served in North Africa; fighting the Afrika Korps) And my great uncle Bud, who served as a Quartermaster in the Nav on the Pac side in WW2. Served myself in the early 2000's. (Ended as an E-5, OS2 (SW). Hope it was enough!)
@DASCO2136 The Sherman was delivered to the Soviet army, too. Some of the most successful tank commanders of the Red Army and many tank crews prefered this tank. According to their experiences it offered the crew even a better protection, if it was hit. So the Sherman must have been better than its reputation. Someone wrote, that the Sherman was not the tank, that won the war, but it was also not the tank, that lost it!
@deusirae76 or that Comets were Shermans. There were over 14,000 Sherman tanks made and only like a handful of comets. Surely they could have aquired Shermans for the movie.
I don't see how Shermans could possibly cost anymore there were so many of them. They even showed up in some movies that were of lower budget than this one. The scenes where you see a mass amount of tanks is usually only models.
@martinishot Israel was Using Shermans upgraded w/ French 105's and new engines. they were WW2 Surplus. a large number of countries used Surplus shermans, and just as many T-34's went the same way.
@Trashcansam123 we were referring to the film because all the vehicles used in it were American, so we made the joke that it looked like the second American civil war.
The only army who still had a few in use by the years of when the motion pictures were released was the Swiss army, and it just had a few. Only Kelly's Heroes used real panzers.
@DASCO2136 Depended on the experience and intelligence of the allied commanders. The Sherman was a medium tank, the Tiger a heavy one. A frontal attack was extremely dangerous, but if the allied tank crews outflanked it, using their superior mobility, than even a Tiger was vulnerable. In the Battle of the Bulge German soldiers - and tank crews - often cursed about the Sherman´s ability to climb easily the hills, while Panthers, Tigers and Royal Tigers were bound to the streets.
@KH990j Ah yes. Well the chaffee and m60's size difference does give a good idea on the American tanks and German Panzers. If they filmed this in Yugoslavia like "Kelly's Heroes" they could've gotten some Shermans to make it look more authentic, or t-34s to mock up. Have you ever seen "Castle keep"?
The problem with Sherman is that it was a very high tank and, hence, an easier target. The problems caused the Tigers downfall: a) overengineering, hence difficult maintenance (most of us, Germans, like that - lol), b) air supremacy belonged to the Allies when Tiger first went into combat, c) numbers, numbers, numbers ! Because the Tiger was such a complicated piece of machinery it was difficult to be produced in large numbers. Some would add d) no slope armour but that had a modest effect.
its really expensive to get shermans and especially tigers on such a massive scale so they use army surplus. other wise the battles in these movies would only have around 6 tanks
@KH990j if anything, they at least did get the size mismatch of the battle right. The King Tigers used in the battle were better protected and armed than the Shermans. I heard it took at least 10 Shermans to kill a single Tiger
@deusirae76 my bad, I meant Chaffees, I don't know where Comets came from. Oh yeah and don't forget the German half track that was actually an American M3. I'm sure they could have at least acquired one sdkfz 251 hanomag.
@martinishot actually, they weren't. the Israelis were using them as frontline tanks at the time. a vast majority of the tanks were not sitting around in junkyards: they were being used as MBT's. the M46's and M24s in this film were acquired from US dumps, as they had been rendered obsolete.
@Trashcansam123 nope, but it's funny you mention Shermans, you'd figure it would be very easy to aquire those. There were only a handful of Chaffees ever made.
KH, it is funny that you mention the M60; much of the design was based off the German MG 42 ( belt fed, etc.) I belived it was designed by Eugene Stoner, the man who would introduce the M16 (which most US assault rifles are variations of). Supposedly, the Germans StG 44 assault rifle was also used by the Russians in the AK-47 (and later, the AK-74 which fired a round lighter than the 5.55 used in the M16.) It was not so much as an American Civil War, but it showed American muscle.
@jorcastify even in the latest movies, they don't, simply because there aren't many left. Saving Private Ryan, i.e., used a soviet (!) T-34 chassis with modified turret and some features added to represent the Tiger tank. Still better looking than a Pershing or a Patton tank, of course! :D You should try "Kelly's Heroes" for good looking equipment and veichles in an old movie. ;)
I heard during the war, the russians came up with a tank that rivaled the Tiger. Its name escapes me, but they first collided with these behemoths at the battle of Kursk and fought to a standstill.
Why couldn't they build fiberglass outer shells on the M47"s and Chaffees that would give them the appearances of Shermans,Panthers,and Tiger II's? They could have even modified M47 wheels and suspensions to look accurate.Only Hesslers tank and only one Sherman and Telly Savalas's with a destroyed turrent have to look perfect.The rest are in background.
@Soundwave3591 So you are agreeing that WWII surplus Shermans were avail. Its just a shame that this movie did not get them for just a few months before some country. How the country modifies them after filming is a different thing.
If you're referring to the Tiger tanks in that movie, that is a negative; those were actually T34s modified with shrouding and various other modifications to make them look like German Tigers. That's why their turrets are so far forward and why their track design is all wrong. Tigers also were not as nimble as that movie showed them because they were actually the lighter T34s.
And to make them look suitably large and threatening to the US tanks all the US tanks in this movie are M24 Chaffees because the sherman looked too big next to a Patton!
It's not a matter of "can't." It's a matter of it costing shittons of money to actually get Panzers for film. Heck, it's already quite expensive to get a few token Shermans into a film.
AURA WHAT I MEAN'T WAS THAT THERE IS ANOTHER RECORDING OF THE FULL MOTION SOUNDTRACK, THAT IS ALL THE MUSIC FROM THE MOVIE I WILL FIND THE ORCHESTRA FOR YOU AT A LATER DATE.
It wasn't very accurate at all. Still a bit fun to watch, especially the German parts. Its funny in an interview for the film the guy says all the tanks are original WW2 that they found all over Europe. They look like M60 Patton tanks to me ;) Even the American tanks were very late war, only a few were probably used in the actual battle.
@deusirae76 my bad, I meant Chaffees, I don't know where Comets came from. Oh yeah and don't forget the German half track that was actually an American M3. I'm sure they could have at least acquired one sdkfz 251 hanomag.
Epic. Imagine that music playing while you look for a seat. That's cinema at its finest.
First 20 seconds are absolutely incredible.
The best ever music score for a war film insofar as I am concerned. It never fails to impress.
Great War movie
👍👍
Best soundtrack for a war movie, ever.
@@timothyhastings5933 We fully agree with you.
How well I remember hearing this inspired Benjamin Frankel score at the McVicker's theatre in Chicago so many decades ago.
Good music for war movie at anytime
Awesome Score.
even with Airpower, the rumors of the presence of a Tiger Tank was often enough to hold up Allied advances. it was better than anything the western Allies had, even when such tanks as the M26 Pershing and Centurion were put into the field.
that said, if the resources put into the Tiger, King Tiger, and their respective adaptations (Jagdtiger, Sturmtiger, etc.) had been put into more Panthers or even Panzer IV's, the ground war would have turned out differently.
a good tank, with a perfect crew.
*transmission problems*
For my Grandpa Pappy (Robert Lynch Sr) and his brother Harry (who served in North Africa; fighting the Afrika Korps) And my great uncle Bud, who served as a Quartermaster in the Nav on the Pac side in WW2. Served myself in the early 2000's. (Ended as an E-5, OS2 (SW). Hope it was enough!)
@DASCO2136
The Sherman was delivered to the Soviet army, too. Some of the most successful tank commanders of the Red Army and many tank crews prefered this tank. According to their experiences it offered the crew even a better protection, if it was hit. So the Sherman must have been better than its reputation.
Someone wrote, that the Sherman was not the tank, that won the war, but it was also not the tank, that lost it!
I know that, and even though the Tigers did look rather funny in Kelly's Heroes it was still a good attempt of a mockup.
NOW ADD THE CHOIR THAT SING THE PANZER SONG THAT WAS HELL OF A GOOD MOVIE
@deusirae76 or that Comets were Shermans. There were over 14,000 Sherman tanks made and only like a handful of comets. Surely they could have aquired Shermans for the movie.
I don't see how Shermans could possibly cost anymore there were so many of them. They even showed up in some movies that were of lower budget than this one. The scenes where you see a mass amount of tanks is usually only models.
@martinishot Israel was Using Shermans upgraded w/ French 105's and new engines. they were WW2 Surplus. a large number of countries used Surplus shermans, and just as many T-34's went the same way.
@Trashcansam123 we were referring to the film because all the vehicles used in it were American, so we made the joke that it looked like the second American civil war.
The only army who still had a few in use by the years of when the motion pictures were released was the Swiss army, and it just had a few. Only Kelly's Heroes used real panzers.
No, they used modified T-34s in Kelly's heroes.
@DASCO2136
Depended on the experience and intelligence of the allied commanders. The Sherman was a medium tank, the Tiger a heavy one. A frontal attack was extremely dangerous, but if the allied tank crews outflanked it, using their superior mobility, than even a Tiger was vulnerable.
In the Battle of the Bulge German soldiers - and tank crews - often cursed about the Sherman´s ability to climb easily the hills, while Panthers, Tigers and Royal Tigers were bound to the streets.
@deusirae76 yeah, a battle in an open desertlike area instead of a thick snow covered forest.
@KH990j Ah yes. Well the chaffee and m60's size difference does give a good idea on the American tanks and German Panzers. If they filmed this in Yugoslavia like "Kelly's Heroes" they could've gotten some Shermans to make it look more authentic, or t-34s to mock up.
Have you ever seen "Castle keep"?
The problem with Sherman is that it was a very high tank and, hence, an easier target. The problems caused the Tigers downfall: a) overengineering, hence difficult maintenance (most of us, Germans, like that - lol), b) air supremacy belonged to the Allies when Tiger first went into combat, c) numbers, numbers, numbers ! Because the Tiger was such a complicated piece of machinery it was difficult to be produced in large numbers. Some would add d) no slope armour but that had a modest effect.
The Second American Civil war, lol. Wait a couple years for the much improved M60 Patton so they could kick some serious butt.
@deusirae76 those Patton tanks were also used in a movie. Guess which one (hint: it's the tank's namesake).
so much pain
its really expensive to get shermans and especially tigers
on such a massive scale so they use army surplus. other wise the battles in these movies would only have around 6 tanks
@KH990j if anything, they at least did get the size mismatch of the battle right. The King Tigers used in the battle were better protected and armed than the Shermans. I heard it took at least 10 Shermans to kill a single Tiger
@deusirae76 my bad, I meant Chaffees, I don't know where Comets came from. Oh yeah and don't forget the German half track that was actually an American M3. I'm sure they could have at least acquired one sdkfz 251 hanomag.
@martinishot actually, they weren't. the Israelis were using them as frontline tanks at the time. a vast majority of the tanks were not sitting around in junkyards: they were being used as MBT's. the M46's and M24s in this film were acquired from US dumps, as they had been rendered obsolete.
@Trashcansam123 nope, but it's funny you mention Shermans, you'd figure it would be very easy to aquire those. There were only a handful of Chaffees ever made.
yes they are! m24s were used in late world war 2 .. they were just not widely used.
KH, it is funny that you mention the M60; much of the design was based off the German MG 42 ( belt fed, etc.) I belived it was designed by Eugene Stoner, the man who would introduce the M16 (which most US assault rifles are variations of). Supposedly, the Germans StG 44 assault rifle was also used by the Russians in the AK-47 (and later, the AK-74 which fired a round lighter than the 5.55 used in the M16.) It was not so much as an American Civil War, but it showed American muscle.
@jorcastify even in the latest movies, they don't, simply because there aren't many left. Saving Private Ryan, i.e., used a soviet (!) T-34 chassis with modified turret and some features added to represent the Tiger tank. Still better looking than a Pershing or a Patton tank, of course! :D
You should try "Kelly's Heroes" for good looking equipment and veichles in an old movie. ;)
I heard during the war, the russians came up with a tank that rivaled the Tiger. Its name escapes me, but they first collided with these behemoths at the battle of Kursk and fought to a standstill.
T-34
Why couldn't they build fiberglass outer shells on the M47"s and Chaffees that would give them the appearances of Shermans,Panthers,and Tiger II's? They could have even modified M47 wheels and suspensions to look accurate.Only Hesslers tank and only one Sherman and Telly Savalas's with a destroyed turrent have to look perfect.The rest are in background.
Also, Israel seemed to find Shermans just fine in the mid 60's.
the battle of the bulge was not yet over soon after operation nordwind wad launched with more attacks or was that apert of the battle of the bulge
You're missing out.
@jorcastify They can't even get the American tanks right in this film.
What I would give to have hans zimmer redo this soundtrack for the remake battle of the bulge movie 2020..
not a remake that would not be as good Hollywood has no creative people to come up with new things its sad .
Love to see that.
@MASR4 Benjamin Frankel
@Soundwave3591 So you are agreeing that WWII surplus Shermans were avail. Its just a shame that this movie did not get them for just a few months before some country. How the country modifies them after filming is a different thing.
what about band of brothers
If you're referring to the Tiger tanks in that movie, that is a negative; those were actually T34s modified with shrouding and various other modifications to make them look like German Tigers. That's why their turrets are so far forward and why their track design is all wrong. Tigers also were not as nimble as that movie showed them because they were actually the lighter T34s.
M47 Patton to be exact
And to make them look suitably large and threatening to the US tanks all the US tanks in this movie are M24 Chaffees because the sherman looked too big next to a Patton!
@KH990j ???? The m60 is old man, what second civil war wtf are you talking about?
It's a M24 V. M47 battle :P
It's not a matter of "can't." It's a matter of it costing shittons of money to actually get Panzers for film. Heck, it's already quite expensive to get a few token Shermans into a film.
MOVIESRUN I BELIEVE THERE WAS A COVER VERSION OF THE FULL SOUNDTRACK
+vincent wilson What is a 'cover' version. This piece is the Overture, which is played before the curtains part and the film begins.
AURA WHAT I MEAN'T WAS THAT THERE IS ANOTHER RECORDING OF THE FULL MOTION SOUNDTRACK, THAT IS ALL THE MUSIC FROM THE MOVIE I WILL FIND THE ORCHESTRA FOR YOU AT A LATER DATE.
KH...my mistake. I got you meant...the M60 was great, but the M1 was even better.
@fritzVirginSteeler What I said!
It wasn't very accurate at all. Still a bit fun to watch, especially the German parts. Its funny in an interview for the film the guy says all the tanks are original WW2 that they found all over Europe. They look like M60 Patton tanks to me ;)
Even the American tanks were very late war, only a few were probably used in the actual battle.
Epic song? Get you music terminology correct. This is NOT a song; it's an instrumental composition.
Not one of the best WW2 movies ever made. Sorely lacking in realism or historical fact.
@deusirae76 my bad, I meant Chaffees, I don't know where Comets came from. Oh yeah and don't forget the German half track that was actually an American M3. I'm sure they could have at least acquired one sdkfz 251 hanomag.