Hi fortunefay. Yes, it is great to recognize that you can tell the "I" to "just go over there and be quiet for now". you can even tell it that it is going to have a different role, more as an advisor/consultant, w/a different title. It is very crafty and cunning and will try to sneak back in at any opportunity to show you that it really is necessary or you're going to be in "big trouble" w/o it. Try it w/ and w/o the "I" being "in charge" and see which works better. stillness
Hi, schnittke100. Will watch that in the future. i'm actually a little closer to the mic when i chant, so that probably explains it. Tks for feedback. Great you found the vid useful.
Hey Gary ! I did all the exercises you recommend in the above video and I must say quite honestly there was just listening to your chanting and a bodily awareness, a subtle tingling sensation on the arms. No thought. No energy to catch or hold anything. No past present or future thoughts.
Hi duwbryd. Chanting something that folks' brains can hear, but not really process, is typically better for thought watching, particularly for short times. As few folk know Sanskrit, their brains don't go out and try to make something out of it. It helps the brain to focus on the internal rather than the external.
Hi Steve. A great state to be in. There is still further to go if you want to. There is a great deepening that is possible if one does active inquiry into remaining attachments, and conscious letting go of them, as described in the blogposts "What is the 'Direct Path' to nondual awakening? What is 'self inquiry?" and "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering". URL in "About". There is a deep stillness and bliss that is beyond what one would believe possible. stillness
More whiteboard content please! Like a public lecture but allows you to go at a slower pace, easiest way for me to digest the information, thanks for the content!
Hi Anthony LDS. Yes, the whiteboard is an effective way to convey information. That is why there are several videos using it. Great that it was useful for you. stillness
Hi Kimberly Popcock, Great that you did the exercises. "Suppressing" thoughts w/chanting is a great practice. There is a video about it "Using Simple Chants for NonDual Awakening. It does the chants from my book. re "thoughts are things", my focus has been on having thoughts "go away". Most of my thoughts were just garbage. What "comes into my life" is out of my control w/ or w/o thoughts; no correlation IME. There are some "no free will videos" as well. stillness.
Hi Steve. That's great. A very rare report, but a wonderful one. IME, it is a very helpful process for folk to understand that it is possible to look @ thoughts critically and carefully with the possibility of understanding them and changing their pattern, problematic nature and appearance, but if you don't have any, you get to skip the class. stillness.
Gary, thanks, interesting exercises. During the video I was very fascinated by the chant - so didn't notice much thinking. And when I wasn't hooked by that I was hearing other sounds around me. End result: not much in my buckets! But, I'll put them into my practice and see where they lead. Thanks again.
on a more daily basis thoughts just come and go but are more in the background and often of no import or usefulness. Negative emotions still pay a visit now and then but seem to evaporate quickly with no noticable effort. Things don´t seem to stick any longer. ``I´m`` well aware of habit patterns engrained as they tend to be. Thanks.
Hi CyPsyShyGuy. Well, the way to deal w/that, in true self-inquiry fashion would be to ask "Who hears the pen writing on the board?", "Whose teeth are these?", "Am I my body/teeth?", "Who's writing?", "Who feels the ringing of his teeth?", "Where is the one who hears the sound?". Great that you are finding them interesting. stillness
I recognize these from your book. Having them on UA-cam and being prompted I finally did the exercise. I almost gave up on the third one because I started to think I need to go do something. I did follow through. Is suppressing thoughts with chanting an okay practice? What about the popularity of Thoughts are Things. Will I draw into my life the "things" I think about.
Doing the exercises i can predict at some point when doing something new, an "I". thought will arise "am i doing this right?". The first exercise began, a sense of curiousiiy expectation, enjoyment of chanting then it arose quicky , jagged lines. Recognizing as garbage, no need to suppress it, because acknowledging as predictable garbage but ok, to arise then goes away. Hearing chanting i drew curvy lines back n forth , swaying enjoyment , new I? aborted, focus on rhythmic sounds movt
Dear Gary...I am trying to understand my experience with 'gaps' or 'pure now' states. There are many occasions while meditating when the only thought I have is 'I have no thought' or I am 'recognizing/experiencing a bodily sensation'. Is being in these states for long periods the 'goal' of this effort? And when we are into planning or performing a task, this state will have no place, right? Would you please clarify? Thank you very much.
Hi Sidtube10. Recommend that you c/o the recent blogpost "Self-inquiry vs the egos/Is - How it works - the neuroscience" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2018/05/self-inquiry-vs-egosis-how-it-works.html. It gives a comprehensive summary on self-inquiry and what resistances manifest and what is useful and why. Here is the answer to your specific question from that blogpost: "Asking “Where/when/what/who am I?”, throughout the day or in sitting meditation, there were brief periods of quiet from the endless “blah, blah” after a question was asked, but for several weeks, few pleasures. However, what is often misunderstood is that the important result is the brief "space/break/stop" (SBS) after the unanswerable self-inquiry question. The massive "off-line"/"elephant" part of the brain with 500,000 times the capability of the "on line"/"rider" part (see blogpost "Right-sizing your "I", understanding confirmation bias") sees this SBS as a break from the usual chaos, and reaalllyyy likes it. As 99.9% of what goes on is done by the "elephant", including generating pleasure with its neurochemistry, it begins to pursue it. Every SBS is data to begin changing its networks to spend more time in that space. Doing self-inquiry periodically during a busy day provides a sharp contrast with prevailing chaos and has high "data value". No SBS is wasted, and every "aha", or nondual experience makes a permanent change, as shown in studies in the blogpost "What is an 'E(e)nlightenment experience?...a new scientific, secular model"." Trust this is useful. stillness gary
Nice post. Fascinating compilation of research on your blog. So, it is about persistence and hitting the brain with those SBS states time and again! What I also wanted to know from you was, do you consider the awareness of there being 'no active thought' also a type of thought or do you call it something else? Similarly, is the choice-less experiencing of a bodily sensation also a thought form or something different? Secondly and more importantly, in these states of 'not being lost in thoughts' does self-inquiry have any place (like asking, who is aware or the who is the observer or who is experiencing the sensation, etc?) and thereby bring back the SBS state. Hope I am able to make my question clear. So many thoughts on thoughts!! Thank you again for your time.
Hi Sidtube10. In persistent "awareness", there is nothing but "aware-ing" or "being" manifesting, with no other movement in consciousness. That isn't what most folk would consider a "thought". For most folk, a "thought" is some concentration of focus and energy in consciousness on some object. If you are really "experiencing" a bodily sensation, there is an "experiencer". The very act of "recording" an experience, requires an engagement of focus and energy, so it would fall into the "thought" category. If you are in pure, persistent awareness, there is no "reason" or energy to bring in self-inquiry. If the energy changes to bring in self-inquiry to see what it is that is experiencing this awareness, then self-inquiry arises, in this parlance as a "thought". i wouldn't lose any sleep over the definition of "thought" as the discussion could be endless. What the major concern is, as Ramana said, is whether we have "problematic" thoughts which are the self-referential ones. stillness
I can tell from trying these that knowing what I thoughts are predictable and useless in present time helps, by going Ah ha there you are, by acknowledging its done its job and doesn't need to persist, that one can refocus attention according to intention and being clear on what it is. The I thoughts may return like someone trying to help but gets in the way,but will leave if we go Not right now, andthen they come back less often. Even seems haha funny to have performance anxiety about having it
HI OBSN. Great. Try "Where is the frightened one?" It is also useful to see if you consciously think up your thoughts, or do they just appear "all by themselves". stillness
Gary Webber , Can I ask you..... .Ive come to understand that thoughts are just thoughts and there is not much differentiation between 'good' or 'bad' thoughts,,would you agree or do you think it is more helpful to cultivate positive thoughts?
Hi Catherine Suryaya-Morgan. i have not seen "cultivating positive thoughts" to work, as it automatically assumes that you can know what a "bad" thought and a "good" thought are. If you watch your actions, you may judge them as "good" or "bad", but in reality, you have no idea what all of the results will be of any of your actions or thoughts on everyone they affect as they work their way forward through other folks' lives. There will be "good", "bad", and "neutral" outcomes depending on the situations in which they manifest on unknown others which was not something you could know. i also found that any self-referential internal narrative thought, positive" or "negative", was problematic in that it distracted from my being free of my suffering. Both "positive" and "negative" self-referential thoughts caused me suffering, ultimately. Even the presumably "positive" ones generated strong negative reactions when i found that i wasn't being positive "enough", so i was constantly judging, and disapproving of, how i was doing and really needed to do better, next time. Consequently, i found that just eliminating all of them was the most direct and simplest approach, so that is what i did, and the suffering stopped. stillness
Thank you Gary, that does make sense here too, as you have clarified just watching thoughts without any preference seems to be what works best. Stillness Too.
Hi Gary very interesting.. what is the phrase you are using ? Sounds like soft referential desires/soft referential fears. Also can you explain the Who hears person ? Thanks much!
Ever since I was a young man, I've never trusted anything that was born out of human thought. The body is not interested in these thoughts you reference.
Hi Dorie. Yes, chanting will do that. If you're curious about chanting, the video "Using Simple Chants for NonDual Awakening" can give you some simple ones to do yourself. If you look under "Show More" above you'll see links to the rest of my stuff, all free in some format. If you download "Happiness Beyond Thought", there is a lot in it about chanting, and my soundcloud channel @ soundcloud.com/gary_weber has many chants. stillness
Closing eyes predictable expectation something would arise, shapes colors yellow line across,analytical overlay: landscape, blue curve over,naming like a car, lt blue billows AOL flower blooming, chant word sounds familiar, thought iindia, thought i like this now future i want to do this again, focus on curiousity, thought arises what bucket does this go in? Predictable garbage laughing, recognize my intent is now learning nrewness. . After think everyday doesnt have chanting need bigger buckets
Hi fortunefay. Yes, it is great to recognize that you can tell the "I" to "just go over there and be quiet for now". you can even tell it that it is going to have a different role, more as an advisor/consultant, w/a different title. It is very crafty and cunning and will try to sneak back in at any opportunity to show you that it really is necessary or you're going to be in "big trouble" w/o it. Try it w/ and w/o the "I" being "in charge" and see which works better. stillness
Hi, schnittke100. Will watch that in the future. i'm actually a little closer to the mic when i chant, so that probably explains it. Tks for feedback. Great you found the vid useful.
Hey Gary ! I did all the exercises you recommend in the above video and I must say quite honestly there was just listening to your chanting and a bodily awareness, a subtle tingling sensation on the arms. No thought. No energy to catch or hold anything. No past present or future thoughts.
Hi SoondSpaceman. Tks for feedback. Great that you found it useful.
Hi duwbryd. Chanting something that folks' brains can hear, but not really process, is typically better for thought watching, particularly for short times. As few folk know Sanskrit, their brains don't go out and try to make something out of it. It helps the brain to focus on the internal rather than the external.
Hi Steve. A great state to be in. There is still further to go if you want to. There is a great deepening that is possible if one does active inquiry into remaining attachments, and conscious letting go of them, as described in the blogposts "What is the 'Direct Path' to nondual awakening? What is 'self inquiry?" and "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering". URL in "About". There is a deep stillness and bliss that is beyond what one would believe possible. stillness
More whiteboard content please! Like a public lecture but allows you to go at a slower pace, easiest way for me to digest the information, thanks for the content!
Hi Anthony LDS. Yes, the whiteboard is an effective way to convey information. That is why there are several videos using it. Great that it was useful for you. stillness
Hi Kimberly Popcock, Great that you did the exercises. "Suppressing" thoughts w/chanting is a great practice. There is a video about it "Using Simple Chants for NonDual Awakening. It does the chants from my book. re "thoughts are things", my focus has been on having thoughts "go away". Most of my thoughts were just garbage. What "comes into my life" is out of my control w/ or w/o thoughts; no correlation IME. There are some "no free will videos" as well. stillness.
Thanks for the reply Gary.
...Indeed some stimulating questions to ponder.
Hi Steve. That's great. A very rare report, but a wonderful one. IME, it is a very helpful process for folk to understand that it is possible to look @ thoughts critically and carefully with the possibility of understanding them and changing their pattern, problematic nature and appearance, but if you don't have any, you get to skip the class. stillness.
Gary, thanks, interesting exercises. During the video I was very fascinated by the chant - so didn't notice much thinking. And when I wasn't hooked by that I was hearing other sounds around me. End result: not much in my buckets! But, I'll put them into my practice and see where they lead. Thanks again.
on a more daily basis thoughts just come and go but are more in the background and often of no import or usefulness. Negative emotions still pay a visit now and then but seem to evaporate quickly with no noticable effort. Things don´t seem to stick any longer. ``I´m`` well aware of habit patterns engrained as they tend to be. Thanks.
Thank you, Garyji.
Excellent video Gary. Thank you!
Hi CyPsyShyGuy. Well, the way to deal w/that, in true self-inquiry fashion would be to ask "Who hears the pen writing on the board?", "Whose teeth are these?", "Am I my body/teeth?", "Who's writing?", "Who feels the ringing of his teeth?", "Where is the one who hears the sound?". Great that you are finding them interesting. stillness
I recognize these from your book. Having them on UA-cam and being prompted I finally did the exercise. I almost gave up on the third one because I started to think I need to go do something. I did follow through. Is suppressing thoughts with chanting an okay practice? What about the popularity of Thoughts are Things. Will I draw into my life the "things" I think about.
Think you're on to something here... great video.
Doing the exercises i can predict at some point when doing something new, an "I". thought will arise "am i doing this right?". The first exercise began, a sense of curiousiiy expectation, enjoyment of chanting then it arose quicky , jagged lines. Recognizing as garbage, no need to suppress it, because acknowledging as predictable garbage but ok, to arise then goes away. Hearing chanting i drew curvy lines back n forth , swaying enjoyment , new I? aborted, focus on rhythmic sounds movt
Dear Gary...I am trying to understand my experience with 'gaps' or 'pure now' states. There are many occasions while meditating when the only thought I have is 'I have no thought' or I am 'recognizing/experiencing a bodily sensation'. Is being in these states for long periods the 'goal' of this effort? And when we are into planning or performing a task, this state will have no place, right? Would you please clarify? Thank you very much.
Hi Sidtube10. Recommend that you c/o the recent blogpost "Self-inquiry vs the egos/Is - How it works - the neuroscience" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2018/05/self-inquiry-vs-egosis-how-it-works.html. It gives a comprehensive summary on self-inquiry and what resistances manifest and what is useful and why.
Here is the answer to your specific question from that blogpost:
"Asking “Where/when/what/who am I?”, throughout the day or in sitting meditation, there were brief periods of quiet from the endless “blah, blah” after a question was asked, but for several weeks, few pleasures.
However, what is often misunderstood is that the important result is the brief "space/break/stop" (SBS) after the unanswerable self-inquiry question.
The massive "off-line"/"elephant" part of the brain with 500,000 times the capability of the "on line"/"rider" part (see blogpost "Right-sizing your "I", understanding confirmation bias") sees this SBS as a break from the usual chaos, and reaalllyyy likes it.
As 99.9% of what goes on is done by the "elephant", including generating pleasure with its neurochemistry, it begins to pursue it. Every SBS is data to begin changing its networks to spend more time in that space.
Doing self-inquiry periodically during a busy day provides a sharp contrast with prevailing chaos and has high "data value". No SBS is wasted, and every "aha", or nondual experience makes a permanent change, as shown in studies in the blogpost "What is an 'E(e)nlightenment experience?...a new scientific, secular model"."
Trust this is useful.
stillness
gary
Nice post. Fascinating compilation of research on your blog. So, it is about persistence and hitting the brain with those SBS states time and again! What I also wanted to know from you was, do you consider the awareness of there being 'no active thought' also a type of thought or do you call it something else? Similarly, is the choice-less experiencing of a bodily sensation also a thought form or something different? Secondly and more importantly, in these states of 'not being lost in thoughts' does self-inquiry have any place (like asking, who is aware or the who is the observer or who is experiencing the sensation, etc?) and thereby bring back the SBS state. Hope I am able to make my question clear. So many thoughts on thoughts!! Thank you again for your time.
Hi Sidtube10. In persistent "awareness", there is nothing but "aware-ing" or "being" manifesting, with no other movement in consciousness.
That isn't what most folk would consider a "thought". For most folk, a "thought" is some concentration of focus and energy in consciousness on some object.
If you are really "experiencing" a bodily sensation, there is an "experiencer". The very act of "recording" an experience, requires an engagement of focus and energy, so it would fall into the "thought" category.
If you are in pure, persistent awareness, there is no "reason" or energy to bring in self-inquiry. If the energy changes to bring in self-inquiry to see what it is that is experiencing this awareness, then self-inquiry arises, in this parlance as a "thought".
i wouldn't lose any sleep over the definition of "thought" as the discussion could be endless. What the major concern is, as Ramana said, is whether we have "problematic" thoughts which are the self-referential ones.
stillness
I can tell from trying these that knowing what I thoughts are predictable and useless in present time helps, by going Ah ha there you are, by acknowledging its done its job and doesn't need to persist, that one can refocus attention according to intention and being clear on what it is. The I thoughts may return like someone trying to help but gets in the way,but will leave if we go Not right now, andthen they come back less often. Even seems haha funny to have performance anxiety about having it
Hi Abba85260. Great you found it helpful. All feedback is appreciated. Stillness.
Truth is me only, except me everything are my thought only, so that is not truely excisting, so Truth is me only, 0K.
I experience fear, but I can't find who is afraid. Who is Afraid?
HI OBSN. Great. Try "Where is the frightened one?" It is also useful to see if you consciously think up your thoughts, or do they just appear "all by themselves". stillness
It seems to me that trying to predict thoughts is simply planning what you will think. There is no action.
Gary Webber , Can I ask you..... .Ive come to understand that thoughts are just thoughts and there is not much differentiation between 'good' or 'bad' thoughts,,would you agree or do you think it is more helpful to cultivate positive thoughts?
Hi Catherine Suryaya-Morgan. i have not seen "cultivating positive thoughts" to work, as it automatically assumes that you can know what a "bad" thought and a "good" thought are.
If you watch your actions, you may judge them as "good" or "bad", but in reality, you have no idea what all of the results will be of any of your actions or thoughts on everyone they affect as they work their way forward through other folks' lives. There will be "good", "bad", and "neutral" outcomes depending on the situations in which they manifest on unknown others which was not something you could know.
i also found that any self-referential internal narrative thought, positive" or "negative", was problematic in that it distracted from my being free of my suffering. Both "positive" and "negative" self-referential thoughts caused me suffering, ultimately. Even the presumably "positive" ones generated strong negative reactions when i found that i wasn't being positive "enough", so i was constantly judging, and disapproving of, how i was doing and really needed to do better, next time.
Consequently, i found that just eliminating all of them was the most direct and simplest approach, so that is what i did, and the suffering stopped.
stillness
Thank you Gary, that does make sense here too, as you have clarified just watching thoughts without any preference seems to be what works best. Stillness Too.
Hi Gary very interesting.. what is the phrase you are using ? Sounds like soft referential desires/soft referential fears. Also can you explain the Who hears person ? Thanks much!
Ever since I was a young man, I've never trusted anything that was born out of human thought. The body is not interested in these thoughts you reference.
Interesting videos, but the sound of the pen writing on the board is making my teeth "ring". ha ha.
LOL His chanting kept me from thinking.
Hi Dorie. Yes, chanting will do that. If you're curious about chanting, the video "Using Simple Chants for NonDual Awakening" can give you some simple ones to do yourself. If you look under "Show More" above you'll see links to the rest of my stuff, all free in some format. If you download "Happiness Beyond Thought", there is a lot in it about chanting, and my soundcloud channel @ soundcloud.com/gary_weber has many chants. stillness
Closing eyes predictable expectation something would arise, shapes colors yellow line across,analytical overlay: landscape, blue curve over,naming like a car, lt blue billows AOL flower blooming, chant word sounds familiar, thought iindia, thought i like this now future i want to do this again, focus on curiousity, thought arises what bucket does this go in? Predictable garbage laughing, recognize my intent is now learning nrewness. . After think everyday doesnt have chanting need bigger buckets
why are you chanting?