2g-ACM - Rimless Enfields - M1917 vs Ishapore 2A1 - Bolting through CQB
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- We're taking a break from modern guns for this match series and decided to pit two very interesting and historic Enfield rifles against one another:
M1917 "Eddystone" in 30-06
vs
Ishapore 2A1 in 308 NATO
We're also doubling down on the expert level in this match by using a Cimarron WW1 style 1911 pistol.
We've not had the best of luck with 303 Enfields at 2g-ACM so we're curious if these particular warhorses chambered in rimless rounds will make it through the entire match without a malfunction!
Stage 2: Enfield Bolts & CQB
CQB with bolt action rifles sucks, but the Enfields should be the best of breed regarding their bolt speed, right? Also Ian has that weird left handed bolt cycling method that is sorta, uhm, effective...when it works. Let's see what happens!
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Karl: "That big plate is hard to knock down, so really hammer it."
.45ACP: "Hold my beer."
Ian’s southpaw bolt method is legit inspiring.
Ian's bolt skills are amazing
And the way he unslung it on the move was pretty slick too.
can we take a moment to mention Ian's ability to fling brass into the next zip code?
Damn Ian can cycle that bolt fast
"The very large pistol target is *very* hard to knock down--"
SMASH CUT to 45 ACP barreling through like the super-popper is nothing.
Major vs minor... ;)
yeah, Ian knocked it down by accident! it's possible that the previous group had a problem with the mechanism being stiff/rusty from disuse. there's a reason .45 ACP is popular with silhouette shooters
Ian with the bolt throw.. just killing it!
Ian your lefty bolt running is fantastic
Damn Ian was on point workin that bolt though....
Ian, your running of the bolt has improved tremendously since your early days of 2 gun
Yep, attending organized matches on the clock will do that to a person. ~K
Ian's rifle handling is super impressive
Ian, there are probably right handers who probably operate the bolt slower than you do and are just as much experience
EdM240B put me on that list man, my bolt skills are trash?
Was once told by a Korean War sniper (Ian Robbie Robertson) that the best practice for CQB shooting with a 303 is to fire 5 then reload, that way you'll have 5-10 up your sleeve if you really need them
In the previous video Ian was reaching over the rifle with his left hand to cycle the bolt. In this video, while still shooting left handed, he cycled the bolt with his right hand and was obviously faster and it didn't appear to disrupt his ability to acquire/reacquire the target like it appeared to be doing with the reaching over the rifle method in the first video. Was that method just a result of firing from a prone position or did Ian change methods because he found the reaching over the rifle method to be slower?
Ian Is quick, good job.
Watch out Karl, Ian's picking up! :D
Just kidding. I'm just excited to see that Ian is getting better. As a lefty shooter, I'm sooo jealous of his bolt skills, though! Great video, guys.
Everyone is going on about how Ian is catching up to Karl but you have to remember how awful those Ishapore sights are. Karl is doing much better than most people would with that gun. Not to dig on Ian, his shooting is definitely getting better as well but still is eclipsed by Karls skill.
It is so much fun to watch you guys run these historic weapons! How about having a CQB stage where you have the option to fix bayonets!
Jesus the both of you on the star lol. At least Ian shot the star in the right order
Fantastic performance from both. Sure, a Garand or an AR would've been a performance upgrade, but I wouldn't want to go up against you guys with bolt guns if I had the choice: you've both gotten mighty proficient with those old beauties.
These matches with unconventional arms is awesome! Please do more!
2 years late...lol... but Jeez Karl... making the Texas Star HARDER for yourself? Brave man !
Ian's bolt cycling abilities are on point!
I thought there was to be no mag in the pistol at the start; yet it looks like Karl had one.
Yes, I screwed up and it cost me time. ~K
Did you get a procedural for it?
I suppose none of the shooters had pistols with magazine disconnect safeties?
I dunnno. I forgot to remove the mag myself and cost myself a bunch of time. ~K
As a fellow lefty, Ian I salute your bolt skills.
Ian is a fucking *ninja* with that rifle
8:25
That simultaneous reload.
Ian was quick with the bolt gun - nice job..
Dang Ian! You just about had it! Slow down on the pistol.... And amazing lefty bolt skills!!
Doesn't Ian have more of a pistol background vs Karls rifle background? So I find it interesting that Ian was faster on the rifle part and then fell far behind on the annoying tricky pistol bit.
if only by half a dozen seconds
After running my 2A1 in 3gun, I would suggest the "volley fire" technique of keeping the thumb and first two fingers on the bolt knob while pulling the trigger with the little finger for engaging a series of close-in "CQB" targets from the same firing position. I haven't timed the same string back to back with both techniques yet, but it does seem to be a little faster.
If left handed, is cycling a right handed action ala Ian faster or should I just get myself a left handed action?
John Soh His stance has been that trying to learn two different styles is not a good idea. If you are going to be shooting right handed often just learn right handed. Otherwise left handed will likely be more comfortable.
I swear, Ian's not shooting a bolt action, but a hand-operated semi auto.
As a fellow lefty, my experience is that you can *usually* get around to using a right-handed device with your left hand just as or very nearly as quickly/efficiently as a right-handed person. Some exceptions, of course, like those pesky orange kitchen-scissors.. :D
I find that once I start using a device intended for a right-handed guy, it's kinda rough to unlearn the little "tricks" I needed to use it as a lefty if I later on acquire the same device built for a lefty.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you decide to get a gun set up for a lefty, do it ASAP and expect some initial frustration if you're already accustomed to shooting a righty gun with your left hand.
Really, scissors are horrible with the wrong side. One has to press the handles in a special way and tat gives you blisters very fast.
But they are a got think to show other handed persons who don’t understand left versus right problems.
Shears are no problem, they are build stiff enough. Other problematic things are turning machines like angel grinders. The sparks only fly away from you using the thing right handed.
I believe there's a Q&A where Ian says that he's been using righty-rifles long enough and frequently enough that he's proficient and comfortable enough with them that he would take a righty over a lefty if offered both.
From that I would probably say that your best bet is just to pick one of the two and stick with it, and that practice and experience really makes up for any shortcomings of having a 'wrong-handed' rifle.
*HOWEVER* this is if you really want to become proficient using them and operating them at a quick rate, such as for matches; if that's not what you want out of the rifle and you're only going to be casually shooting them at a range, then there's no reason why you should limit yourself to only one kind of rifle.
Now, that being said, personally I have two suggestions on how pick a side if you did intend to do so, the first being that if you intend to own or shoot primarily older rifles such as Lees, Mausers and MAS-36, etc, that you'd be better sticking with right-handed rifles.
My second suggestion would be that you should try both _for a period of time_ and then pick whichever is most comfortable; there's no point forcing yourself to try to become proficient with righties if fundamentally they aren't for you and you aren't comfortable shooting them.
(again I am an amateur and these are only suggestions; I don't want to dictate you you how you should spend your time and money, I just hope I can throw out some thoughts that may help you when you're deciding for yourself)
Y'all .303 shooters just need some surplus .303 for that rimlock - ua-cam.com/video/MOYTdoQkFrM/v-deo.htmlm40s
(just have to hope it's not the stuff that goes click-bang tho)
We've seen rimlock more than once at 2g-ACM and in this regard I think I can speak for both Ian and I in that we don't agree with Bloke on this one. ~K
Yep. Blasphemy. Don't agree. ~K
I didn't notice any rimlock, what point does it happen in the video?
James Lai
They're not using .303. My comment refers to .303 shooters.
Prubbs good, I thought I was going crazy
Ian has that P17 bolt down.
What stripper clips are you using?
Ian almost turn that P17 into semi-auto. Looks like he uses the weight of the rifle to work the bolt, impressive👍
+Yeung Man Kiu No, that’s nothing like a semi auto.
did the 1911 stove pipe on the first round and no mag in?
Ian, you're wicked fast on that Enfield. It's giving me an itch to try one out. Which would you pick if you had to choose between '03-A3 vs. M1917?
whats the 180?
Whoa, I wish I was that good at running a bolt gun left-handed! I sold my .22 bolt gun mostly for that reason, but I'd love to get a milsurp rifle and learn to operate it well.
All the steel fell. How is it that Ian "missed" one? Even though he probably missed the second popper and hit the large one instead, he still came back and knocked it down. The description narrative didn't say they had to be shot front to back.
I understand Karl usually gets the results, but Ian has the style.
I wish they did it with the 10 round stripper clips for the ishapore 2a1. That would be a pretty big advantage
There is no 10 round stripper clip for 303 or 308, all 5s. You're thinking of the SKS strippers
Were the penalties for Ian because he unslung the rifle before crossing the blue line?
Edit: nvm Karl did the same thing. What were the penalties for?
J Corbett gotcha. Thanks!
The 1917 isn't really an enfield; it's a mauser derived action. Also, they neglected to mention that with an enfield you don't actually have to move your head while cycling the bolt.
3:00 Left handed bolt action master class
Did people in your squad shooting 9mm have issues with that large popper?
Yes.
I thought Karl's gun was a Ishapore 2A, not a 2A1?
It is a 2A, although the difference between the two is merely the rear sight leaf graduations. ~K
Thanks!
I'd love to see a M95/30 vs K31 2G-ACM
dang. maybe Ian has something with that whole "left handed" thing. maybe the rest of us are doing it wrong
they need to make this into a video game
I like that you are both shooting but if you are going to compare weapons you need the same person to be shooting the weapons. It's nice to see Ian improving, not necessarily in this match
Thanks for replying. I appreciate that it is in match conditions, I would love to see you both shoot both weapons for a comparison. Thanks for the content keep it coming
Why did you bother putting slings on those rifles? Those rifles were designed to be shot while using the slings as a brace to keep them steadier. Karl has even mentioned that use. You didn't carry the rifles with the slings, unless between stations. It's like putting an adjustable 2-point sling on an AR and then ignoring it.
+Goetz Liedtke Sometimes stages at 2gacm require transitions and thus a sling is pretty important when that happens. ~K
InRangeTV That makes sense. Now I know why Ian left his off - the third stage was all rifle. I still think using the sling the old-fashioned way might have helped your accuracy.
I think that for historical accuracy the Ishapore .303 should have been paired with a .380 Enfield revolver. LoL
"Why did I do that"
bigger bore is better
+gatmanaug No, it really isn’t.
45 acp tko