*When picking turns* Matt: "I don't want to forget about my agendas" *2 minutes later* "At the start of my hero phase... I'm going to cast some spells!"
Still watching so don't know if you caught it yet, but don't forget the beak attacks from your Tzaangors @30:00 3 extra attacks per model might have helped out :)
Fair, but it's not like there are tons of options with KO. It has a limited amount of different models. The most fun I have w/ mine is mixing them with Fyreslayer Vulkanite Berserkers in my Battle line. Im kind of surprised they don't use allies in their battles. Makes AoS far more interesting and fun.
I just can't like Kharadron Overlord BatReps. They never feel fun to me sadly. :( Nothing that was done wrong of course. Thanks for the BatRep. I also agree with Matt: hating now much shooting is making its way into Sigmar. I don't want Age of 40k.
It’s a good day at the office for me if 30% of my Bloodbound horde gets within chopping and stabbing range of a KO army. Im relying on my opponents bad rolls for me not to get melted off of the table.
The tzaangor really suffer becuase the greatblades hit on 4s, and they're only one attack when the unit is less than 9. You usually take 20 for this reason, but they're hard to get in becuase of the base size. Pure tzaangor is very thematic, however, its probably best to take a single unit and have a mix of daemons and Arcanites. For example, I take the tzaangor for some combat punch, plus a unit of pink horrors as an anvil. Be that as it may, tzeentch marked marauders are better in every way: same number of wounds for 20 less points, smaller base size, 3s and 4s - 1 rend... A unit of 40 plus reckless abandon = 120 attacks! To make the tzaangor better you might consider allying in grashrak fellhoof for his spell of plus one to hit on a target unit. He also synergsises well with brayherd (tzaangor) units giving them plus 3"move...
I have to agree with Matt here. I think a few shooting units is okay, but this AOS is supposed by ‘high fantasy’, not ‘almost sci-fi’. The amount of shooty armies is starting to break the flavor of the whole game.
I agree. It's also not very fair when compared to combat armies that need to get in range with their combat weapons so charges matter and movement matters more. It's extremely easy to get in range with all the armies with firepower and they just shoot everything. If I wanted to play 40k, I'd play 40k...
I don't think it's too bad with KO because they can sometimes be bullied off objectives but with Lumineth it's a bit ridiculous. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better, I have a feeling Slaanesh are going to have stupidly good shooting.
They forgot the Tzaangor Beak attacks? They all get one and they benefit from all the buffs and extra attack stuff too... should also be running shields on the non-specials as that's a lot of 6+ FNP's for 2 wound models. Might've also missed Ornate Totems? KO should've been using Volley Fire from CP and using the realm ability to cast the realm spell, at least once it was clear that fate points weren't going to be a factor. Otherwise fun to see my two favourite armies duke it out, I play sort of a Tournament spec BS KO... so I am going to run a Tzaangor focused Tzeentch, though with a bit of a mix of Screamers via Hosts Arcanum.
I feel like the 2 wounds each and relatively large units make them good anchors, or rather WOULD if they weren't in the same book as Horrors. Still, if you weren't going to use Horrors, a single unit of them backing up the more fragile but capable of shooting Acolytes or screening for your wizards would probably be the next best choice. Like, they ate a ton of shooting, you just needed something else to actually kill the KO's sources of damage.
This was recorded last week sometime, FAQ wasn't out yet! Also, the FAQ addresses a different situation and not this particular one. Players can still grab objectives at the end of their opponent's turns.
All ballon army i am trying to build Barak Zon Balloonmaster iron star, hammer Balloonmaster, stock 2 x 12 balloonwardens with 3 skyhooks each 4 x 3 balloonriggers with a skyhook each 3 balloon haulers with skycannons 1 with torpedo.
3 start collecting Beastclaw Raiders is 2k easy, it's also pretty decent as a list (depending upon your build) you'll deal impact hits and have big monster riding army... but IMO Ogors have an issue against the gunline/magic abusing lists as Ogors don't have movement shenanigans, teleports stuff like that
If only that first Tzaangor assault could have had 3xmodel more attacks on 4+ re-rolling/4+... If only there was something like Vicious Beaks they could have completely forgotten because they play and call it work... ... No wait... And then not noticing them even when mentioning "on Warscroll, their attacks look great"... And no. This is not some "We play so much that we can't remember all the rules." Like repetition wasn't one of the greatest ways of learning. Or that "Oh, we are not allowed to make mistakes?" 'Cose you do them all the time. You're known for that fact. And not even actually looking at the Warscrolls when you play and noticing there is not just two types of weapons listed on the Tzaangors, but three, in a game that actually lists all the weapons the unit could carry so you don't even have to look over some other page to make sure you're catching all the weapons... It's all on you. And doing things half-assed like that really hurts the game. Would Tzeentch still won? Heck, no. KO is just good if you know what you're doing. Especially against someone who does not... But Tzaangors have their place. Would rather run them in groups of 10 'cose although you quickly lose the +1A when they start to drop, you won't get full 20 into a single melee anyhow and having them all in one group just is bad for board control and paints a huge target on their faces, not to mention the poor morale means there'll be far more guys running after less shooting than there should be.
I know you guys aren’t fans of the double turn but I really think it adds to the battle plan each time. Go too aggressive and get punished for it but play too defensively, get punished...I like it!
it's pretty terrible from a balance perspective, there is literally no logical argument that can be made for it. but I don't think anyone plays AoS for the balance anyway so it doesn't really matter.
@@CloudianMH It allows for really good strategy for hardened players because of the trade off, you have to basically have two plans or risk getting decimated. It's a bigger problem in light hearted games but if that's frustrating just agree with your opponent not to take the double turns, easy enough to fix.
This is the epitome of a crap list for Tzeentch. I’m glad to see KO trounce this hot mess. I’d like to think that the list that was built around the army core mechanic wins. The Tzaangor list with almost no spell casting SHOULD lose like this every time.
We all know how you feel about the double turn. So announcing it every time you roll a priority roll in every single video you post really gets tiresome.
I enjoy miniwargaming a lot but this type of battle report is such a waste of time. KO obliterating anything in front of them is not entertaining. C'mon miniwargaming, you should know this.
A faction so broken that Games Workshop themselves released a psa on how to play against them. great movement, army wide 4+ save, unbelievable shooting and they aren't even bad in melee. Where is the downside? Tzeentch is really strong now but this is a fun thematic tzeentch list, not a strong one. Very disappointing. Edit: I would like to leave a more positive comment so would like to add the problem isn't just that KO are so disgustingly strong right now, its the mismatch between the armies. I enjoy competitive play and am fine with seeing that sort of things in battle reports but it must be on both sides. Josh likes very strong lists. In both 40k and sigmar he plays only hyper competitive net lists style forces. This is not a problem and I don't intend it as an insult, but it isn't amusing and heightens the feeling of aggravation at these armies when they are brought against a fun thematic list and totally curb stomp them. This battle report could basically be called "KO are really strong atm, Lets watch how a casual army stands no chance!" Either bring two competitive lists or two fluffy ones. Don't mix and match. Its not fun to watch and for many players it triggers their ptsd about the faction in question XD That aside thank you guys for all the great content and keeping us all entertained.
Yeah, love these guys - but I agree. A lot of their recent batreps are generally good to busted army vs. casual/meme list. I'm totally down for the memes but both players gotta participate so it's not a one-sided shlacking every time! Lol.
I dont even play AoS and I was like "okay, so the dwarves are pretty good at shooting and maneuvering, so they must not be too good in close combat" Josh goes to fight: ya these attacks are all at -1 AP and D3 damage and your dude on disc is dead What the actual fuck
@@TwoTanksNoAggro I agree with this. It also makes the double turn much deadlier cause shooting can hit without getting hit back. I play Tzeentch and I still want shooting to be toned down
This amount of shooting is so dumb. Luckily, I only play at home with friends and family and I'm the only one buying everything so I can just pretend some factions don't exist.
This is why I'm a little worried about MWG I watch a few other channels and whilst there are curb stomps MWG seems to have a lot of them the armies seem to be oddly picked or used and only a few of the players seem to plan for the double turn getting or losing it.
ARMY LISTS:
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Leaders
Fatemaster (120)
- Artefact: Daemonheart
Magister (100)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- General
- Command Trait: Nexus of Fate
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Battleline
20 x Tzaangors (360)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 167
Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Zon
Leaders
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (190)
- General
- Command Trait: Bearer of the Ironstar
- Artefact: Aethersped Hammer
Aether-Khemist (90)
- Artefact: Caustic Anatomiser
Battleline
3 x Skywardens (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Drill Launcher
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Skyhooks
- 1x Grapnel Launchers
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Skyhooks
- 1x Grapnel Launchers
Units
15 x Grundstok Thunderers (360)
- 3x Aetheric Fumigators
- 3x Decksweepers
- 3x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
Behemoths
Arkanaut Ironclad (480)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Battalions
Grundstok Escort Wing (120)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
*When picking turns* Matt: "I don't want to forget about my agendas"
*2 minutes later* "At the start of my hero phase... I'm going to cast some spells!"
Classic xD
Still watching so don't know if you caught it yet, but don't forget the beak attacks from your Tzaangors @30:00 3 extra attacks per model might have helped out :)
"That's why i bring redundancy" speaking my language Josh. Been my mantra since 5th ed 40k.
Really glad to NOT see the tournie KO list and non horror flamer heavy Tzeentch.
Fair, but it's not like there are tons of options with KO. It has a limited amount of different models.
The most fun I have w/ mine is mixing them with Fyreslayer Vulkanite Berserkers in my Battle line.
Im kind of surprised they don't use allies in their battles. Makes AoS far more interesting and fun.
I just can't like Kharadron Overlord BatReps. They never feel fun to me sadly. :( Nothing that was done wrong of course. Thanks for the BatRep.
I also agree with Matt: hating now much shooting is making its way into Sigmar. I don't want Age of 40k.
It’s a good day at the office for me if 30% of my Bloodbound horde gets within chopping and stabbing range of a KO army. Im relying on my opponents bad rolls for me not to get melted off of the table.
@@loamy3227 Sounds about right. 😔
The tzaangor really suffer becuase the greatblades hit on 4s, and they're only one attack when the unit is less than 9. You usually take 20 for this reason, but they're hard to get in becuase of the base size. Pure tzaangor is very thematic, however, its probably best to take a single unit and have a mix of daemons and Arcanites. For example, I take the tzaangor for some combat punch, plus a unit of pink horrors as an anvil. Be that as it may, tzeentch marked marauders are better in every way: same number of wounds for 20 less points, smaller base size, 3s and 4s - 1 rend... A unit of 40 plus reckless abandon = 120 attacks! To make the tzaangor better you might consider allying in grashrak fellhoof for his spell of plus one to hit on a target unit. He also synergsises well with brayherd (tzaangor) units giving them plus 3"move...
More-more-more tzeentch power!
my two favourite armies!
Agreed! As a KO player, im a bit biased tho.
I am building a Khorne list just to avoid that shooting, because melee is fun!
Yay a Tzeentch Battle Report! Just as planned!
Kairic Acolytes are actually a 5+ save instead of a 6+ (used to be 6+).
I have to agree with Matt here. I think a few shooting units is okay, but this AOS is supposed by ‘high fantasy’, not ‘almost sci-fi’. The amount of shooty armies is starting to break the flavor of the whole game.
I agree. It's also not very fair when compared to combat armies that need to get in range with their combat weapons so charges matter and movement matters more. It's extremely easy to get in range with all the armies with firepower and they just shoot everything. If I wanted to play 40k, I'd play 40k...
I think the problem with KO is their resiliance. It would be balanced if they just die in cc, but they also punch back.
Disagree. I loved playing dwarfs in whfb. I love playing ko, cities (ironweld shooty list) in aos.
I don't think it's too bad with KO because they can sometimes be bullied off objectives but with Lumineth it's a bit ridiculous. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better, I have a feeling Slaanesh are going to have stupidly good shooting.
never thought I would hear one day " tzeentch and a litte bit of magic " in th same sentence
Josh you were rolling on fire in this game, I think you singed my eyebrows with those rolls!
Great game gentleman 🙇🏻♂️
Love the background music. Reminds me of Metroid music
They forgot the Tzaangor Beak attacks? They all get one and they benefit from all the buffs and extra attack stuff too... should also be running shields on the non-specials as that's a lot of 6+ FNP's for 2 wound models. Might've also missed Ornate Totems?
KO should've been using Volley Fire from CP and using the realm ability to cast the realm spell, at least once it was clear that fate points weren't going to be a factor.
Otherwise fun to see my two favourite armies duke it out, I play sort of a Tournament spec BS KO... so I am going to run a Tzaangor focused Tzeentch, though with a bit of a mix of Screamers via Hosts Arcanum.
I'd like to see some Beasts of Chaos games that use the Nurgle or Tzeentch battalions. I've never seen anyone ever play with them.
notice to self: When approaching an Arkanaut Ironclad do not provoke them to shoot at you. It WILL hurt!
So many guns on that ship. If you're army is grouped up its a massacre. Arkanauts have so much range by controlling the skies
How were the Aether portholes painted? Very cool glass effect!
I feel like the 2 wounds each and relatively large units make them good anchors, or rather WOULD if they weren't in the same book as Horrors. Still, if you weren't going to use Horrors, a single unit of them backing up the more fragile but capable of shooting Acolytes or screening for your wizards would probably be the next best choice. Like, they ate a ton of shooting, you just needed something else to actually kill the KO's sources of damage.
I am not sure that KO hold the objective after DoT turn 1 (new FAQ)
This was recorded last week sometime, FAQ wasn't out yet! Also, the FAQ addresses a different situation and not this particular one. Players can still grab objectives at the end of their opponent's turns.
"Keep shooting away from my AoS game please" is something I also have been saying!
Love KO very good job mr. Josh
Like for the like gos! Comment for the Algorithm!
just looked at the rules of Disciples of Tzeetch.. looks way op
Really impressed by the aether chemist's performance.
He was 100% vital...for holding an artifact I never used.
@@mwgjosh5161 well someone's gotta hold the loot 🤣
minecraft" "asmr" "pewdiepie" "music" "fortnite" "markiplier" “UA-cam is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits
All ballon army i am trying to build
Barak Zon
Balloonmaster iron star, hammer
Balloonmaster, stock
2 x 12 balloonwardens with 3 skyhooks each
4 x 3 balloonriggers with a skyhook each
3 balloon haulers with skycannons 1 with torpedo.
Which army should I start if I want an army that is cheaper to get roughly 2000pts
Not sure on points but ogors and beastclaw are pretty cost effective
2-3 BCR start collecting boxes should get you to 2k points easily.
Ironjawz
Mortal maggorkin, the start collecting is 500 points
3 start collecting Beastclaw Raiders is 2k easy, it's also pretty decent as a list (depending upon your build) you'll deal impact hits and have big monster riding army... but IMO Ogors have an issue against the gunline/magic abusing lists as Ogors don't have movement shenanigans, teleports stuff like that
How about 180 grots? see if he can chew through them fast enough!
If only that first Tzaangor assault could have had 3xmodel more attacks on 4+ re-rolling/4+...
If only there was something like Vicious Beaks they could have completely forgotten because they play and call it work...
...
No wait...
And then not noticing them even when mentioning "on Warscroll, their attacks look great"...
And no. This is not some "We play so much that we can't remember all the rules." Like repetition wasn't one of the greatest ways of learning. Or that "Oh, we are not allowed to make mistakes?" 'Cose you do them all the time. You're known for that fact. And not even actually looking at the Warscrolls when you play and noticing there is not just two types of weapons listed on the Tzaangors, but three, in a game that actually lists all the weapons the unit could carry so you don't even have to look over some other page to make sure you're catching all the weapons...
It's all on you. And doing things half-assed like that really hurts the game. Would Tzeentch still won? Heck, no. KO is just good if you know what you're doing. Especially against someone who does not...
But Tzaangors have their place. Would rather run them in groups of 10 'cose although you quickly lose the +1A when they start to drop, you won't get full 20 into a single melee anyhow and having them all in one group just is bad for board control and paints a huge target on their faces, not to mention the poor morale means there'll be far more guys running after less shooting than there should be.
Nice
I know you guys aren’t fans of the double turn but I really think it adds to the battle plan each time. Go too aggressive and get punished for it but play too defensively, get punished...I like it!
it's pretty terrible from a balance perspective, there is literally no logical argument that can be made for it. but I don't think anyone plays AoS for the balance anyway so it doesn't really matter.
@@CloudianMH It allows for really good strategy for hardened players because of the trade off, you have to basically have two plans or risk getting decimated. It's a bigger problem in light hearted games but if that's frustrating just agree with your opponent not to take the double turns, easy enough to fix.
Oops! all tzaangors
Drill does 3 mortals on a 5
This is the epitome of a crap list for Tzeentch. I’m glad to see KO trounce this hot mess. I’d like to think that the list that was built around the army core mechanic wins. The Tzaangor list with almost no spell casting SHOULD lose like this every time.
Wooooooouuuund? Haha
No warhammer army vs one space marine character?in time dimension divergent?????????need to replace the centurion for the leviathan???
Don't worry about "competitive", it's boring as hell.
Massacre, sky dwarfs destroyed Tzeentch.
Always a good story xP
Forget the Tzaangors. I had tried game after game to make them good. They aren't. Bring your pinks and tarpit units.
We all know how you feel about the double turn. So announcing it every time you roll a priority roll in every single video you post really gets tiresome.
Honestly, is it asking that much to get through a game without Matt mentioning all the dice rolls that don’t go in his favor? Super annoying.
I just find him very irritating all the time haha. Especially when things don't go his way/loses. But thats just my opinion!
It is annoying when he does a lot, but in this game he didn't
Except he wasn’t mentioning Josh’s bad or totally skewed rolls, just his own.
I enjoy miniwargaming a lot but this type of battle report is such a waste of time. KO obliterating anything in front of them is not entertaining. C'mon miniwargaming, you should know this.
A faction so broken that Games Workshop themselves released a psa on how to play against them. great movement, army wide 4+ save, unbelievable shooting and they aren't even bad in melee. Where is the downside? Tzeentch is really strong now but this is a fun thematic tzeentch list, not a strong one. Very disappointing. Edit: I would like to leave a more positive comment so would like to add the problem isn't just that KO are so disgustingly strong right now, its the mismatch between the armies. I enjoy competitive play and am fine with seeing that sort of things in battle reports but it must be on both sides. Josh likes very strong lists. In both 40k and sigmar he plays only hyper competitive net lists style forces. This is not a problem and I don't intend it as an insult, but it isn't amusing and heightens the feeling of aggravation at these armies when they are brought against a fun thematic list and totally curb stomp them. This battle report could basically be called "KO are really strong atm, Lets watch how a casual army stands no chance!" Either bring two competitive lists or two fluffy ones. Don't mix and match. Its not fun to watch and for many players it triggers their ptsd about the faction in question XD That aside thank you guys for all the great content and keeping us all entertained.
Yeah, love these guys - but I agree. A lot of their recent batreps are generally good to busted army vs. casual/meme list. I'm totally down for the memes but both players gotta participate so it's not a one-sided shlacking every time! Lol.
I dont even play AoS and I was like "okay, so the dwarves are pretty good at shooting and maneuvering, so they must not be too good in close combat"
Josh goes to fight: ya these attacks are all at -1 AP and D3 damage and your dude on disc is dead
What the actual fuck
@@TwoTanksNoAggro I agree with this. It also makes the double turn much deadlier cause shooting can hit without getting hit back. I play Tzeentch and I still want shooting to be toned down
This amount of shooting is so dumb. Luckily, I only play at home with friends and family and I'm the only one buying everything so I can just pretend some factions don't exist.
God we lost fantasy for this shit
Don't watch it then, they produce fantastic fantasy batreps so dry your tears and stop trolling.
This is why I'm a little worried about MWG I watch a few other channels and whilst there are curb stomps MWG seems to have a lot of them the armies seem to be oddly picked or used and only a few of the players seem to plan for the double turn getting or losing it.
What a pointless and dumb comment.