They seem pretty decent models, but I have already pre-ordered some Hattons coaches instead, so I will support Hattons in their endeavors. Anyway, I'd rather discourage Hornby from duplicating everyone else's models!
Apparently, the coaches were measured by Hattons and Hornby within six weeks of each other. Hattons announced early, Hornby waited until the models were further along the development time line.
‘That’s absolutely correct’ - how can you know this? The source in question suggested that Hornby’s field work took place in November 2019, *just a month* after the Genesis announcement, the CADs for which were already complete. Despite arriving in stock before much of the 2020 range, they were announced and immediately released as part of the 2021 range, Q1 2021, the same quarter Genesis were due for release. You’re telling me none of this was calculated? Without any *facts* to the contrary, how can you not jump to conclusions?
Incorrect - I didn't claim that Hornby duplicated them, at no point did I say that... I made a conscious effort *not to say that* . The *point* is that they do it, maybe not always deliberately, and the effect is the same. So I ask, what *statements* did I make without facts? The argument about the 2021 models coming out before 2020 models was intended to show that the coach R&D started after Hatton's... which you have already accepted. As you rightly say, different models progress at different speeds, and the development of these coaches will have been much quicker than that of, let's say, a steam locomotive at about 24 months. This was the core of my argument - that was the exact point I was making. If they *had* been in development for 2-3 years already (as claimed by Simon Kohler), Hornby must have known they'd be ready for release within the next year... so why not announce them in the 2020 range, unless they were deliberately planning a surprise release just ahead of project Genesis? (Edit: I see Pegasus has now changed their mind and accepted the argument, but just to make the point clear) If it wasn't intended as an aggressive surprise release (as above) It's much more likely that the details were still being finalised/designed at the point of the 2020 range launch, preventing the announcement. Again, this strongly suggests that the project *was not* in development for 2-3 years, and could in fact have been started after October 2019. Of course it's a free market - I'm not saying Hornby have broken any rules... my very words were that it was a 'pity' for the smaller manufacturers... that was the point I was making. It is therefore interesting that you find the argument hilarious - could that be because you failed to understand it? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
And just to be clear "In my comment I clearly said that in this case Hornby has duplicated it" - is a lie - you edited the comment after the fact... and I have the screenshots to prove it...unlucky! You can't just change your argument when it's been disproved! xD
@@SamsTrains I think the fact that Hornby waited until the coaches were almost ready to sell and before the Hattons models are available has made a lot of people think they were trying to steal the market. Your reviews are always fair and clear. I still struggle with the mechanism/performance scores😂 and everyone knows that the J50 and Webb Coal Tank should be the top two😂, but duplication of rolling stock does seem to be a waste of resources some times. Keep up the entertaining work Sam.
Yeah. You could use those for a custom TVS Annie and Clarabel. I was thinking you could do an engine cavalcade with lots of historic locomotives with coaches and such.
i think its Humbrols gold or brass, i have noticed Humbrol can be a bit hit and miss when it comes to the large particles. Some of their paints are fantastic but some are really bitty , their flesh acrylic is consistently awful and always dries with a sandpaper texture
@@toekneekerching9543 I don't use Humbrol for ages now, but the Revel's gold is (use to be) OK, (i mostly use Tamya and Life-color but i don't have metal colors from those brands).
Nice range and the colour looks good. With the abundance of small Edwardian & Victorian locomotives now available, these coaches are a valuable and excellent addition. Great review as ever.
Imagine using these LBSCR Coaches and an E2 Class, like Thomas, against Thomas with Annie and Clarabel on the tracks and see if anyone can do a real life Thomas and the character Thomas around the tracks and have a race of the two.
Nice one Sam! I did a video last month on the 6 wheel LNER teak versions and like you I was impressed. They may not have the best detail we've ever seen but I think they'll be good for those who want them to run behind smaller locos in these pre-grouping liveries. It'll certainly be interesting to see how they compare to the Hattons coaches eventually too. 😃
@@SamsTrains They're not perfect but I certainly like them. I don't think Hatton's are doing the LNER livery in teak either so that was a good excuse to go for the Hornby ones initially as well - even if they are totally fictional 😂
Sam: Hornby announced some new three and six wheel coaches Me : three wheels? Me : trying to picture what 3 wheeled coaches would look like! 😂 Great video Sam!
I've got some of the Hornby coaches, BR versions, look great, and the lighting system is quite a revolution in DC working lights. I think Jenny Kirk put it best when She did her review. Rather complimenting each other than competing each other. I think too both companies are filling a gap in the market that has been said before by others that there was no market for these coaches. I'd imagine the Hatton's variant will be more detailed and will have an advantage with the announced SDJR coaches, but in terms of competition I just think it's something a little bit inflated. Now in my opinion, OK yeah Hornby have announced some products at the same time as Rails, but for other products on the market you could apply that competitive mindset to Bachmann who have made models that Hornby have made before like the A4s and 9Fs; models that Hornby have championed for decades! or the large praries that dapol have announced, why are people not complaining about those? or what about everyone who has made at least ONE mk1 coach in their time of being in business??? It just annoys me now that I hear about some supposed rivalry between companies, and if one company doesn't want to deal with the other because they're annoyed at them for supposedly copying them, so be it (eg. Rails vs Hornby). Maybe someone will tell me I'm thinking too much, and even though I have been a bit worried about the supposed clash that could happen between Hornby and Hattons, I can't help but to open my mind at the idea that it might not be the case. I suppose we just have to find out which road whichever side chooses to take this.
Thanks a lot for sharing! No, I don't think that's quite accurate - for most people, the two ranges fill the same gap in the market, and therefore they have to be competing products. The A4s and 9fs are very different - the prototypes are world famous, and the models were produced and released years apart from each-other. The story isn't the same with these coaches - the two ranges are so similar, comparatively niche, and yet they're arriving in the same quarter as each other. An ex-Hornby employee claims that Hornby started surveying their Stroudley coaches *the month after* Hatton's made their announcement... it seems very unlikely that Hornby were not motivated by Genesis in any way. People aren't complaining about Dapol's large prairie because *Dapol announced it a year before Hornby did* ;) Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review mate! Really looking forward to seeing the great western coaches 👍 Also, thanks for saying that bit about independent manufacturers at the start. Needed to be said!
I just bought some of these coaches in GNR livery, and I think I found the cause of the stiffness when rolling. After taking the body off I found there are long metal weights on the chassis, and on one of them it has shifted so it was sitting not dead centre but right over the wheel well. Thus in certain situations the wheel would rub against the weight and stop rolling. I moved it back and haven't had a problem since.
Very nice. :) As others said, this type is featured heavily in Thomas, but here's a bit of history: Season 1: Several orange variants (all 3 types in this video) appeared as branchline coaches, though the brake compartments were rather flatted. Some had faces and Annie & Clarabel had names on their sides. Though in the Railway Series, Annie & Clarabel have bogies (likely LMS suburbans) though I kinda prefer how they're LBSC in the show as Thomas is himself. Season 2: The orange ones were still used, but they also introduced red ones with more accurate brake compartments - which later became the norm by S3 and Annie & Clarabel were the only orange ones left. In late CGI, these were shown on both branch line engines (like Edward) but also on the main line behind James and even Henry
I understand there was a spat between Hornby and Rails (which led to Rails no longer stocking Hornby) based on some alleged dispute over a forthcoming model Rails wanted to produce but Hornby also went ahead with the same, by way of competition. If true, one could argue either that free competition is acceptable or that muscling in on smaller competitors isn’t right. I lean toward the latter. For that reason, if I buy some of these types of coaches, they will be genius, even though I have no great affection for Hatton’s. And Sam, based on your thorough, and IMHO humble opinion, accurate review of the Dapol Terrier and also the Dapol’s water tower debacle, I concluded its QA/QC is poor and resolved to never buy its products, cancelling the pre-order I had for the Stroudley. A candid review of models is what we need, especially as prices now suggest we’re being gouged (are you listening, Bachmann?) The magazines don’t provide that service because - who pays the piper calls the tune. So, good for you Sam - keep it up.
They certainly weren't very pleased with each-other - though I don't know whether or not that was the reason they no longer do business. I'll be very interested to see what the Genesis coaches are like - I've only seen the samples so far, so while I do have a good idea, I won't draw a conclusion until I've received my order! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thank you Sam!! Did you know that the E1 was also used on the Metropolitan Line of London Underground at the time it was the Metropolitan Railway. We have some on the top floor of the London Transport Museum in Covent Garden Market Area.
During the recent online Warley Show I was able to ask the Bachman boss if they planned any N gauge versions of these sort of coaches, he looked a bit cagey and said not until there is a demand for them ... well clearly there will be a demand, now that oo modellers have them. So come on Farish/Dapol let’s see what you can do!
just spotted elsewhere and amazed and delighted to see LBSC coaches as RTR models! White roofs were apparantly to ensure the cleaning department were doing their jobs (!)
Wow these look nice. Probably intended as a replacement for the old generic 4 wheelers, which were based loosely on the Dorset Central railway (later S&D) 3 sompartment 3 wheel coach. I think they've also gone for the Ratio type coaches whcih I have to finish mine off lol. I reckon Hornby have rushed these out but really I think people are just as likely to buy a couple of each, these and Genesis coaches so really it does give a good bit of choice. I might pick some up myself if Warley returns this year.
They look OK-ish but the strangulation of small manufacturers is just outrageous. Especially when the small manufacturers actually try to create new models and the strangler is just trying to duplicate them, this is not fair competition at all! P/S: 7:20 R40069 nice I see you're a man of culture as well, Lord Sam of Sodor
Hi Sam just as an aside and if you didn’t know those disc wheels were common on old coaching stock they were remade up of sectional wooden centres I believe bolted together with an iron or steel ring. They are called Mansell wheels and were supposed to provide a more comfortable ride some were finished with varnished wooden centres.
That's okay - Jenny has a much closer relationship with Hornby than I do. I pay for my models, so I'm not afraid to speak my mind! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains That is why your reviews are so useful, you tell the truth. I have watched so many reviews where they tell me the loco is good, only to find out it not so good when I buy it. If you say a loco is good, it generally is.
I've taken delivery of the 4 wheel BR brake baggage coach and a 6 wheel BR 3rd class, they do look good and will be rolling behind among others a Hattons P class. The quality is pretty good the main criticism was a squeaky set of middle wheels on the 6 wheel coach, a dab of oil cured it. I had pre-ordered two Southern Railways, but the order has been cancelled they seem to have been put back until later in the year or sold out. (already?). However, I am still going with Hattons for their LB&SCR and SECR coaches, as you said it will be interesting to compare the two, the smaller companies should play their cards closer to the chest or risk being victims of a large company juggernaut.
Thanks for sharing Kevin! interesting about the 6-wheeler - I'll have to look out for any squeaking when I get mine! Sounds good - it will be very interesting to compare the two! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They look lovely and some LNER six wheelers might look nice behind my J11 (ignore the fact it’s in BR black), though I am a bit worried with this trend of Hornby copying others, let’s just hope these were coincidences
Fun-ish fact: Bachmann basically already produced LBSC 4-wheel coaches. Technically anyway, on the Thomas and Friends Range, when they produced the red branchline coaches. Anyway nice review Sam!
@@SamsTrains hi Sam I Started my Small locomotive collection by purchasing second hand Models and I am saving up to get my mainline Erlestoke Manor repaired and to buy the Hornby hush hush the one that hornby first released
No, Sam, you're not a cretin and I do agree that Hornby is being selfish by duplicating the four-wheel range. Why don't they, instead, develop a range of vintage coaches that hasn't been produced before, such as the toplight coaches, dreadnoughts or even the arc roof variety. There are so many styles out there. Hornby are not showing any sort of inventive or brave skills by just copying everyone else and yes, they are damaging the industry. Come on Hornby, show some backbone and get your undoubted marketing and engineering skills working on projects that will really get the modelling hobby up and running to new heights. Sam, you said yourself how gorgeous the clerestory coaches were and there are so many more beautiful liveries out there. Sorry about the rant, lol.
These would go great with a terrier, I wrote this before you showed the terrier pulling them. But they would look good with the lbsc marsh umber liveried terriers
they do look pretty nice, touch of weathering on the roof and underframe just to bring the details out and I could see actually liking a rake of these, don't look hard to fit lights too and a bit of paint would hide the raised floor bit
Fully agree with you Sam that to keep the hobby growing we need a wide variety of models to cater for everyone. For instance I grew up travelling on the lovely Class 304 EMU's into Manchester Piccadilly. I've never seen a model of one unfortunately, but still remember the big bouncy seats lol !
Thanks Sam. For your next servicing video I can recommend picking up some needle nose tweezers - they make it much easier to pick up that hair / errant piece of debris than normal tweezers do.
Hi Sam, Lovely coaches and the livery is well done. A tat expensive seen the Roco 4 wheel "Donnerbüshe" with far more detail cost around 17€. But we observe dramatic price ++ changes now for most model railroad products. Competition is not necessary negative and might influence pricing. Thanks for reviewing & greetings
Thanks a lot Filip - yes too expensive really for what they are - maybe you're right about the competition... maybe the Hornby terriers would have been more expensive if not? Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I am willing to make two guesses about this coaches. 1: these are part of the railway range (and therefore, are more expensive) 2: they aren't on Amazon yet
I know people are mad about the competing between Hattons and Hornby but I’m not. I’m one of those people who like the fact that there are choices. There are only three Stroudly coaches that are available (to my knowledge). The new Hornby ones, the Hattons ones and the Bachman Thomas and friends coaches. Two of which are available in American and one of them is only one color. So I love the fact that we have multiple options for Stroudly coaches.
"R40069, nice." hehe They look nice, although a bit basic for a £30 price tag. I'm tempted by some, although not sure which livery: LBSCR for the old tooled improved engine green terrier, LNWR to go with the coal tank, SR green to go with the BR malachite green terrier, or something else. I'd get a mix of types, without lights, but I'm also interested in some hattons ones too for comparison. My dapol TPE 68 arrived today, is a little noisy on DC before running in though. And also an EWS 37/4, 411 Ty Hafan also arrived as my 7th 37/4 and my 12th bachmann 37.
haha nice! Yeah I agree, too basic for what they cost, but great looking overall! That sounds good - hopefully it'll get a bit quieter with time?! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review Sam! I’m looking forward to seeing more variations of these coaches. I’m interested in seeing which version between Hattons and Hornby is better and which is better value before I order any. Do you know when the Genesis coaches are being released? Hope you’re well!
Thanks very much Harry - I'm really interested to see what they're like too! I think they said Q1 2021, so hopefully not too long! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, another cracking video thanks 👍 I am inclined to agree with your view on duplication of product ranges. I only have experience in N gauge, but in general when one manufacture announces a direct competition product against another in N, one will back down. Some notable exceptions are when there is enough of the prototype to cover many variations (the class 66 is a classic example), but annoyingly we have recently seen two manufactures covering the exact same loco!
Bought three today to go with my LB&SCR engines. I agree these are good, though not sure I agree about Hornby stamping on smaller companies, given the lead time it takes to get them to market. If Hornby had been making a lot of profit over the years then I may agree that they are overpriced, however they haven't been, and I am quite happy to pay the price being asked. Really nice to have some LB&SCR coaches, to go with my engines (-:
Ahh fantastic! Not sure about that - ex Hornby employee claims that Hornby went to measure the 4 wheel prototype a month after the Genesis announcement. They say a locomotive takes 2 years to develop... I don't have any trouble believing the largest manufacturer in the industry could turn these basic coaches around in 15 months! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I'm still considering these though I just finished a ratio 4 wheeler kit before they were announced. But I like the idea of having a mix of different 4 wheeler designs as there were in real life even within a railway itself. I think itd be nice to see each model company do their own version of coach. Also I believe that the hornby ones are pretty much lbscr designs but they just decided to release them in multiple liverys because of hattons so you can tell as they have the quite distinctive ends on the brake coach. Great video can't wait to see the rest of the 4/6 wheelers.
I think the key difference between these and the Hattons one's are that the Hornby coaches are "Generic" (Which is how Hornby, themselves, described them). Meaning that every livery will have the same design, and will be less accurate in terms of design. The Hattons one's will have more accurate designs to fit each livery. So there's still enough differences between them for a consumer. (My apologies if you covered this in your review, by the way, I was in Discord while watching this video, so people were talking over you.) Great review, Sam!
Thanks for sharing! Both coach ranges are generic - the same is true of both ranges. Hornby's are less generic, as they're strongly influenced by the Stroudley design, but Hatton's aren't designing different coaches for every livery! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up. I think I'll try and get three or four then. They'd go well with the Hornby SE&CR H class I just got.
I've got a 3rd class and 3rd class brake, both in GWR livery, both with lighting. Looks really nice being pulled by my bachman Gwr 8750 pannier tank. Need a baggage and a first class but they look the part.
I finally bought one of these. I bought a first class coach off of eBay and After looking at it I can’t seem to find that issue with the oil lamp caps. maybe the eBay seller found it and fixed it? I’m not sure but it’s possible. So far I haven’t experienced any problems with mine yet. Would definitely recommend it to anyone who wants Stroudly coaches but doesn’t want to 1. Wait for the Hatton’s ones or 2. Doesn’t have the budget for the Hattons ones.
I’ve ordered some NBR ones as “through coaches” for my Caledonian Railway set-up. Not feeling guilty about that, though, as Hatton’s have never announced any NBR livery. I’m swithering over what to do about the LNWR “through” coaches, though, as both Hornby and Hatton’s have announced them and they’re both due very soon... It’s great to see the Hornby coaches, though, Sam - thank you for that.
I’m a big fan of the Era 2 stuff, so was very pleased when Hornby released the NBR coaches to go with my NBR loco “Maude”. I must say the lighting system works brilliantly and looks fantastic- well worth the extra few quid - can be retro fitted too which is great as an upgrade 👍 thanks Sam - great review as always 🚂
Hello Sam, those are some neat coaches you got there. Why don’t you run the E2 with the brake coach and one regular coach so it looks like Thomas, Annie and Clarabel?
These are nice. I’ve still got the Hattons ones on preorder as they are the only ones doing the LMS livery at the moment. To me it looks like Hornby were originally going to make Stroudley Coaches for their Terriers, but then they spotted what Hattons were doing and went generic. It’s disappointing that they did this because Southern region modellers could have had some detailed prototypical pre-grouping coaches. All this said, I think it’s great that the big manufacturers are finally doing these pre-grouping coaches. When I took up the hobby I was really surprised to see that the only RTR 4 wheel coaches on the market were those ugly Hornby ones with old tooling. Not exactly inspiring! Not all of us have a gigantic layout to run a rake of the 57ft coaches. A small tank engine with some 4 or 6 wheelers is not only cheaper, but it’ll look great on a small layout like mine. Kudos to both Hattons and Hornby for (belatedly) making a lot of modellers dreams come true.
Thanks Lach - yes you could be right there, that sounds very likely! It is good to see pre-grouping coaches at last though - it's like waiting for a bus! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I ordered four of the BR Crimson 6-wheelers with lights. Look great with the lights off or on... Until you run them in darkness. Either the LEDs are too bright or the paint is very thin on the coaches because the bodys are illuminated from the inside and it looks terrible. Also, the 6 wheelers sometimes have derailments on double slips and 3-way points. Still going for some Hattons ones though.
@@SamsTrains I'm not sure but I'm thinking of modifying mine somehow. Probably with some light absorbing paint inside. But really, we shouldn't have to make these kinds of modifications ourselves. I think Hornby have rushed these out to beat Hattons and have missed the mark somewhat. The weird thing is, I've seen footage of the LNER teac versions with lights on and there's no light bleed through the bodies at all. Very strange.
Waiting for the hattons ones. I was going to out of principle and now seeing these compared to the hattons pre-production examples it has to be said I think the detail and decoration leave something to be desired on these Hornby ones. Along with the hattons ones having track powered lighting it's an easy decision. Ironic that in many ways these smaller manufactures are showing up the bigger ones.
When the Hatton's ones come out you've got to compare the same body styles, their 4- and 6-wheel chassis(mainly the 6), the lighting, their respective versions of the same liveries and the variety of overall available options
Sam if I use a control remote for the rail with a different set will it work and will other trains work on it or does the control only use the one train that was assigned??
That depends - if you're using analogue, it'll control every engine on the circuit of track. To control them independently, you need DCC! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
These coaches did not appear overnight, because when Hornby made their announcement the coaches were already in the warehouse. As you know Sam, it takes time from the drawings to the ready to run stages. I agree with Jenny Kirk, I think there is a market for both makers to sell their products, but most of all it lets the consumer have a choice and that cannot be a bad thing. My disappointment is neither of them is offering any NER coaches. They were in a darker maroon colour with a hint of blue. I wish both companies all the best, but Hornby make sure you are on top of your QC. the slight problems pointed out in this video should have been sorted at the Engineering sample stage. Martin. (Thailand)
Not overnight Martin, nobody was suggesting that! An ex Hornby employee claimed that the real coaches were measured/surveyed in November 2019, the month following Hatton's Genesis announcement... so rather than overnight, we're talking about 14 months from the survey to arriving on shelves... sounds about right, as they say locomotives take around 2 years, and these are much much simpler. There may well be a market for both - it seems they are both excellent products to be fair, and I'll certainly be buying plenty of both! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've just received two of the 4 wheel GNR coaches with lights and I think they're fantastic! It's a bit awkward with Hattons though but I've two GWRs on preorder with them so I don't feel too bad!
With any luck there will be slight variations between the Hornby coaches and those from Hattons which will make it worth using both, Of course, that will only work if both manufacturers use the same shades of paint!
Concerning the fact that Hornby are in competition with Hattons, if you want to represent 2 pre-grouping companies, it is nice to have slightly different coaches for them. I have already ordered Hattons coaches in SECR livery, and am likely to go for Hornby coaches in LBSCR livery. Edit: I looks to me as if the Hornby ones look more like the Stroudley (LBSCR) 4 wheel coaches than the Hattons ones.
Yes that's absolutely right Richard - that's the silver lining isn't it? Hornby's are indeed heavily based on the Stroudley coaches! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A real massive step up from those even more basic, shorter and somewhat toy-like coaches that Hornby been producing for decades. Were these coached made prior to these intended to be accurate to a certain type of branch line coach?
I just did a quick comparison with 4 wheel DB coaches from Roco. They have much better detail and separately applied parts. They come preconfigured to easily install interior lighting kits designed for them. They have close coupling mechanisms which these Hornby coaches do not. Don't mistake NEM boxes on floppy plastic mounts for close coupling mechanism. And the Roco coaches cost 25€ which is about £18. Heaven help Hornby if Roco or Trix/Marklin ever decide to compete. Hornby own Jouef and Rivarossi and they would never dare to sell overpriced rubbish like these coaches under those labels. Please British modelers start demanding better products and better value for money.
Thanks a lot for sharing -yes I did feel that these were pretty basic for what they cost... haha yeah, that'd be the day wouldn't it?! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Interesting review. A head-to-head comparison with the Genesis coaches would be interesting. I agree with your comment - Hornby should stop trying to duplicate smaller manufacturers' new products and really do something different - perhaps some authentic early coaches rather than generic ones?
Love These Coaches Looks Very Old Fashioned, Detail Looks Insane And Glad You Got Plenty Of London And Brighton South Coast Railway (LBSC) Locos And Very Suit Them
Hey um sam? Do you know the 5mt Black 5 No. 44767 “George Stephenson”? I’ve noticed something about the side rods, it has a different setup than normal Black 5 steam locomotives, why is that?
I think it's nice to have more choice between which manufacturer I'm buying models from. If the Rails terrier was the only one available I'd probably just not buy a Terrier at all because of how shoddily they were produced. This type of competition might force companies like Hornby and Bachmann to be better, which ultimately benefits the consumer and lowers prices of locomotives and rolling stock.
Considering getting the lner rack, but I don't have large amounts of money and don't intend to get anything until the end of the year, so I'll wait until hattons coaches come out and see how they compare. Fantastic review as all was Sam keep up the good work!
My goodness, these look amazing! I'm so glad that there are now more Stroudly Coaches on the market than the one bachmann make for the thomas and friends range. Don't get me wrong, their awesome, but it's just nice to have another option.
Woohoo! Those coaches look absolutely gorgeous behind your terrier, there! And don't feel bad! I've had beautiful "American" 4-4-0's for decades, and only got matching coaches for each just last year! >.> Now I suddenly want to get some pre-grouping British trains!
I've already got a pre-order for one of hattons' 6 wheeled coaches to complete an lner sleeper train I've been working on for some time now, saves me having to buy a kit and I've got faith in them so I'm gonna stick with hattons on this one
bought one of the 6 wheel teak ones with lights and have to say i do really like them, ordered two more so i can have a somewhat okay rake of them, gonna try the hattons ones as well to see which i like more and that one will be in the ncb blue
Hornby has made 4-wheeled coaches similiar to Bachmann's The Railway Children train pack coaches, maybe you can buy the coach and maybe fix the train pack since the brake coach wasn't really similar to theone in the movie
I have the LBSC ones, the baggage van, first class, third class and brake coach in my possession, they all look truly wonderful ☺️ It's nice to be able to have some more realistic carriages, though I'm interested in seeing the 6 wheel version from Hattons
Yeah that's right - I'd guess they will be yeah, these will probably replace them! Maybe they'll still turn up in train sets though?? Thanks for watching, Sam :) Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That's Hornby alright. They do have a *track record* for stepping on the toes of other manufacturers. It's no coincidence that Hornby released their Class 66 in a variety of guises when the Hatton's one came about. Of course the Hattons 66 is still in a league of it's own as the Hornby version would be more of a budget model in comparision. Though it can still be pretty bad for lesser known companies. A notable example is the announced Cavalex Class 91. It's great that Hornby finally did bother to replace their aging tooling but unfortunately Cavalex cancelled theirs once Hornby got in on the act. Both would be nice especially if one focussed on liveries the other hasn't. Nonetheless those coaches certainly do look splendid. It is nice to see Hornby pushing for more pre-grouping stuff.
They do indeed - and flooding the market with cheap class 66s definitely wasn't a coincidence! It sounds like Hornby were producing their 91 before Cavalex, but the fact is that the Cavalex one was going to be higher-specced... and now it's not happening! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Haven’t clicked on a video this fast since then Hatton’s Genesis coaches. So beautiful, these coaches are. Them and Henrietta are tied with my favorite passenger rolling stock. Also, you should’ve gotten the LBSC E2 to pull these coaches. It would’ve been like Thomas is pulling Annie, Clarabel, and a new name I just came up with, Bethany :)
I have watched a few reviews on these coaches already in different liveries and the same issues keep coming up like the minimal detail on the bodies and chassis of the carriages compared to the engineering samples of the Genesis coaches Hattons loaned to you and other railway modellers on UA-cam. I think the only thing these coaches have in advantage is the magnetic light system, but I can see the clips holding bodies onto the chassis wearing or breaking over time when the batteries have to be replaced.
Thanks for sharing Ben - yes a bit disappointed in their simplicity given the price, but they look great and run well, so I'm happy overall! Genesis looks to be far better for the money, but only time will tell! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
They’re ok for what they are, I got three of the North British Railway maroon 6 wheel ones, I find they sometimes struggle to go round 2nd radius curves not exactly the best runners. Looking forward to the hattons ones now got high hopes for those...cheers Ryan
@@SamsTrains Yeah maybe they'll ease up after a few running sessions. Its mainly the centre wheel stops turning? see what you find if you get any 6 wheelers...Ryan :-)
Part of me kinda wants to see the Bachmann Thomas pulling these as these are the kinds of coaches used in the show! Also, I hate to be negative, but I'm still gonna go with the Hattons coaches as they seem to be much more detailed, but that's just me personally! Love the video!
@@willhooker9567 that’s what I thought too, but I already knew Thomas’s class. it said it on his side tanks in TAB. I think if these coaches were available in the livery of Annie and clarabel or in dark green, they would be great for old coaches and Annie/clarabel type coaches without faces! :)
Sounds good mate - I expect so too, but can't say it for sure until I've received my production version... fallen into the trap of drawing conclusions from pre-production samples before! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
If I remember correctly Annie and Clarabel were based on LBSC Stroudley Coaches.
Yeah I think you're right Luke!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
On TV, yes. In the Railway Series they were based on the larger LMS Suburban coaches.
@@SamsTrains if you buy the new Hornby E2 can u run it with those LBSC coaches
Really 😮
Yeah they look very similar in the television series, but in the original books they were boogied I think.
They seem pretty decent models, but I have already pre-ordered some Hattons coaches instead, so I will support Hattons in their endeavors. Anyway, I'd rather discourage Hornby from duplicating everyone else's models!
That's good to hear - we'll see what happens with that! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
should do a vs vid once there out
Hatton: makes new pre grouping models
Honrby: *and I took that personally*
Lol
I know right!!
@@SamsTrains 7:21 nice
Hey it opens more options for the cheaper people like me. It’s just a shame I can’t find any for sale
@@BMMEC6000 They are barely cheaper, and Hatton’s ones are better.
Apparently, the coaches were measured by Hattons and Hornby within six weeks of each other. Hattons announced early, Hornby waited until the models were further along the development time line.
‘That’s absolutely correct’ - how can you know this? The source in question suggested that Hornby’s field work took place in November 2019, *just a month* after the Genesis announcement, the CADs for which were already complete. Despite arriving in stock before much of the 2020 range, they were announced and immediately released as part of the 2021 range, Q1 2021, the same quarter Genesis were due for release. You’re telling me none of this was calculated?
Without any *facts* to the contrary, how can you not jump to conclusions?
Incorrect - I didn't claim that Hornby duplicated them, at no point did I say that... I made a conscious effort *not to say that* . The *point* is that they do it, maybe not always deliberately, and the effect is the same. So I ask, what *statements* did I make without facts?
The argument about the 2021 models coming out before 2020 models was intended to show that the coach R&D started after Hatton's... which you have already accepted. As you rightly say, different models progress at different speeds, and the development of these coaches will have been much quicker than that of, let's say, a steam locomotive at about 24 months. This was the core of my argument - that was the exact point I was making.
If they *had* been in development for 2-3 years already (as claimed by Simon Kohler), Hornby must have known they'd be ready for release within the next year... so why not announce them in the 2020 range, unless they were deliberately planning a surprise release just ahead of project Genesis?
(Edit: I see Pegasus has now changed their mind and accepted the argument, but just to make the point clear) If it wasn't intended as an aggressive surprise release (as above) It's much more likely that the details were still being finalised/designed at the point of the 2020 range launch, preventing the announcement. Again, this strongly suggests that the project *was not* in development for 2-3 years, and could in fact have been started after October 2019.
Of course it's a free market - I'm not saying Hornby have broken any rules... my very words were that it was a 'pity' for the smaller manufacturers... that was the point I was making.
It is therefore interesting that you find the argument hilarious - could that be because you failed to understand it?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
And just to be clear "In my comment I clearly said that in this case Hornby has duplicated it" - is a lie - you edited the comment after the fact... and I have the screenshots to prove it...unlucky! You can't just change your argument when it's been disproved! xD
@@SamsTrains I think the fact that Hornby waited until the coaches were almost ready to sell and before the Hattons models are available has made a lot of people think they were trying to steal the market. Your reviews are always fair and clear. I still struggle with the mechanism/performance scores😂 and everyone knows that the J50 and Webb Coal Tank should be the top two😂, but duplication of rolling stock does seem to be a waste of resources some times. Keep up the entertaining work Sam.
Yeah. You could use those for a custom TVS Annie and Clarabel. I was thinking you could do an engine cavalcade with lots of historic locomotives with coaches and such.
Yeah you totally could - it'd look fantastic! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sounds like they have done a 'Boeing'; Just revamped an old model and given it a repaint, add MCAS then trying to pass them off as new!
I would love to buy these coaches, they will make a great addition to my layout and might be my first hornby rolling stock.
I can recommend them Aidan!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wait for the hattons ones to come out, hornby will probably be cheaper in quality.
@@SamsTrains more coaches please
@@jmtrainz2582 thank you for the suggestion, but where I came from I only buy stuff from ebay or amazon.
Yeah, really only buy from ebay myself, if I end buying them it'll be when they start showing up on the used market.
I can see another lemon in the room: Horby used that awful gold paint again, with the large "particles"!
i think its Humbrols gold or brass, i have noticed Humbrol can be a bit hit and miss when it comes to the large particles. Some of their paints are fantastic but some are really bitty , their flesh acrylic is consistently awful and always dries with a sandpaper texture
@@toekneekerching9543 I don't use Humbrol for ages now, but the Revel's gold is (use to be) OK, (i mostly use Tamya and Life-color but i don't have metal colors from those brands).
Yeah they did - though I will say this wasn't apparent to the naked eye - only noticed when I looked at the closeups!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice range and the colour looks good. With the abundance of small Edwardian & Victorian locomotives now available, these coaches are a valuable and excellent addition. Great review as ever.
Thanks Leroy - yes indeed, great that we're finally seeing some of these! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
"R40069, nice" - Sam'sTrains 2021
2000 models in the future we'll have an R42069
haha, I'm a child! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Imagine using these LBSCR Coaches and an E2 Class, like Thomas, against Thomas with Annie and Clarabel on the tracks and see if anyone can do a real life Thomas and the character Thomas around the tracks and have a race of the two.
Definitely Lewis - I'm going to try that some time!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains real life vs Thomas ???!!!!
I think hornby were working on the coaches before Hatton but I don't know, I would love to get some of the LBSCR coaches to go with my E2 and terrier
We'll never know for sure! Sounds awesome - they are a perfect match for those!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice!
Three and Six wheeled coaches - now 6 wheel is fine - but 3 wheel sound fun...
haha did I say three?!? Uh oh!! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice one Sam! I did a video last month on the 6 wheel LNER teak versions and like you I was impressed. They may not have the best detail we've ever seen but I think they'll be good for those who want them to run behind smaller locos in these pre-grouping liveries. It'll certainly be interesting to see how they compare to the Hattons coaches eventually too. 😃
Ahh fantastic mate - they're good then? Can't wait to try some for myself! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains They're not perfect but I certainly like them. I don't think Hatton's are doing the LNER livery in teak either so that was a good excuse to go for the Hornby ones initially as well - even if they are totally fictional 😂
Sam: Hornby announced some new three and six wheel coaches
Me : three wheels?
Me : trying to picture what 3 wheeled coaches would look like! 😂
Great video Sam!
Look at a picture of a Robin Reliant car; that should give you a good impersonation. After all, that's what three rail track is for! Hehehe...
haha my bad, lol!! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey sam, I am really curious what the first model train you bought/owned and do you still have it?
Yeah!! It was the Caledonian Pug (I got it for Christmas) and sure I still have it! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've got some of the Hornby coaches, BR versions, look great, and the lighting system is quite a revolution in DC working lights. I think Jenny Kirk put it best when She did her review. Rather complimenting each other than competing each other.
I think too both companies are filling a gap in the market that has been said before by others that there was no market for these coaches. I'd imagine the Hatton's variant will be more detailed and will have an advantage with the announced SDJR coaches, but in terms of competition I just think it's something a little bit inflated.
Now in my opinion, OK yeah Hornby have announced some products at the same time as Rails, but for other products on the market you could apply that competitive mindset to Bachmann who have made models that Hornby have made before like the A4s and 9Fs; models that Hornby have championed for decades! or the large praries that dapol have announced, why are people not complaining about those? or what about everyone who has made at least ONE mk1 coach in their time of being in business??? It just annoys me now that I hear about some supposed rivalry between companies, and if one company doesn't want to deal with the other because they're annoyed at them for supposedly copying them, so be it (eg. Rails vs Hornby). Maybe someone will tell me I'm thinking too much, and even though I have been a bit worried about the supposed clash that could happen between Hornby and Hattons, I can't help but to open my mind at the idea that it might not be the case. I suppose we just have to find out which road whichever side chooses to take this.
Thanks a lot for sharing! No, I don't think that's quite accurate - for most people, the two ranges fill the same gap in the market, and therefore they have to be competing products. The A4s and 9fs are very different - the prototypes are world famous, and the models were produced and released years apart from each-other. The story isn't the same with these coaches - the two ranges are so similar, comparatively niche, and yet they're arriving in the same quarter as each other. An ex-Hornby employee claims that Hornby started surveying their Stroudley coaches *the month after* Hatton's made their announcement... it seems very unlikely that Hornby were not motivated by Genesis in any way. People aren't complaining about Dapol's large prairie because *Dapol announced it a year before Hornby did* ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
7:20 DAMN SAM BE PULLING OUT THE MEMES FINALLY
696969696969
Why thank you Jennifer kirk
What did he do? He just read out the info.
haha!! ;D
@@melchestermodelrailway he read r400069 he said nice after 69
I have never been more impressed with coaches in my life! It's the answer to all who (like myself) have pre grouping engines. Just amazing!
The Bachmann SECR birdcage set are the best RTR coaches I have seen - so far.
haha awesome - glad to hear you liked them so much!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review mate! Really looking forward to seeing the great western coaches 👍 Also, thanks for saying that bit about independent manufacturers at the start. Needed to be said!
Thanks so much! Yeah the GWR ones look fantastic for sure! I agree, it needed to be said!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I just bought some of these coaches in GNR livery, and I think I found the cause of the stiffness when rolling. After taking the body off I found there are long metal weights on the chassis, and on one of them it has shifted so it was sitting not dead centre but right over the wheel well. Thus in certain situations the wheel would rub against the weight and stop rolling. I moved it back and haven't had a problem since.
this coaches in Hornby version looks beautiful
Yeah they are beautiful!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Very nice. :) As others said, this type is featured heavily in Thomas, but here's a bit of history:
Season 1: Several orange variants (all 3 types in this video) appeared as branchline coaches, though the brake compartments were rather flatted. Some had faces and Annie & Clarabel had names on their sides. Though in the Railway Series, Annie & Clarabel have bogies (likely LMS suburbans) though I kinda prefer how they're LBSC in the show as Thomas is himself.
Season 2: The orange ones were still used, but they also introduced red ones with more accurate brake compartments - which later became the norm by S3 and Annie & Clarabel were the only orange ones left.
In late CGI, these were shown on both branch line engines (like Edward) but also on the main line behind James and even Henry
Thanks Vincent, appreciate all the info on this! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
7:20 "...0069 nice" very subtle there ;)
haha! ;D
I understand there was a spat between Hornby and Rails (which led to Rails no longer stocking Hornby) based on some alleged dispute over a forthcoming model Rails wanted to produce but Hornby also went ahead with the same, by way of competition. If true, one could argue either that free competition is acceptable or that muscling in on smaller competitors isn’t right. I lean toward the latter. For that reason, if I buy some of these types of coaches, they will be genius, even though I have no great affection for Hatton’s. And Sam, based on your thorough, and IMHO humble opinion, accurate review of the Dapol Terrier and also the Dapol’s water tower debacle, I concluded its QA/QC is poor and resolved to never buy its products, cancelling the pre-order I had for the Stroudley. A candid review of models is what we need, especially as prices now suggest we’re being gouged (are you listening, Bachmann?) The magazines don’t provide that service because - who pays the piper calls the tune. So, good for you Sam - keep it up.
They certainly weren't very pleased with each-other - though I don't know whether or not that was the reason they no longer do business. I'll be very interested to see what the Genesis coaches are like - I've only seen the samples so far, so while I do have a good idea, I won't draw a conclusion until I've received my order!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This might be the last video I watch before I die of hypothermia. All the power around us is out
Godspeed my guy
Oh god! Stay warm mate - hope it's fixed soon!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
R.I.P. Jason
He was very loved, and died an honorable death watching Sam review new coaches. May he rest forever in eternal peace.
Thanks everyone
@@Jason_The_Stooge sure
Thank you Sam!! Did you know that the E1 was also used on the Metropolitan Line of London Underground at the time it was the Metropolitan Railway. We have some on the top floor of the London Transport Museum in Covent Garden Market Area.
I never knew this - that's fascinating!! :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Lovey looking models, wish some one would do 4 wheeled coaches in N gauge as I would definitely buy them-Ben
Graham Farish did four wheelers in the seventies. May still turn up for auction etc. Not up to modern standards.
Thanks a lot Ben - would be interesting to see these in N gauge! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
During the recent online Warley Show I was able to ask the Bachman boss if they planned any N gauge versions of these sort of coaches, he looked a bit cagey and said not until there is a demand for them ... well clearly there will be a demand, now that oo modellers have them. So come on Farish/Dapol let’s see what you can do!
just spotted elsewhere and amazed and delighted to see LBSC coaches as RTR models! White roofs were apparantly to ensure the cleaning department were doing their jobs (!)
Having a locomotive pulling these coaches just looks amazing and hi
Yeah I agree - and hi!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wow these look nice. Probably intended as a replacement for the old generic 4 wheelers, which were based loosely on the Dorset Central railway (later S&D) 3 sompartment 3 wheel coach. I think they've also gone for the Ratio type coaches whcih I have to finish mine off lol. I reckon Hornby have rushed these out but really I think people are just as likely to buy a couple of each, these and Genesis coaches so really it does give a good bit of choice. I might pick some up myself if Warley returns this year.
I’d rather wait for the genius’s ones. For some reason these coaches look cheap
I don't blame you Tim - that's because they are pretty cheaply made... overall effective, but the value isn't excellent!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They look OK-ish but the strangulation of small manufacturers is just outrageous. Especially when the small manufacturers actually try to create new models and the strangler is just trying to duplicate them, this is not fair competition at all!
P/S: 7:20 R40069 nice
I see you're a man of culture as well, Lord Sam of Sodor
Yeah it is a little unfair isn't it? May the best manufacturer win I suppose!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam's train these are looking this, alos incredible 3 coaches I've seen bit of Thomas's coaches
Thanks Llesh - yeah they do look like Thomas' coaches! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Yes sam it is.
Hi Sam just as an aside and if you didn’t know those disc wheels were common on old coaching stock they were remade up of sectional wooden centres
I believe bolted together with an iron or steel ring. They are called Mansell wheels and were supposed to provide a more comfortable ride some were finished with varnished wooden centres.
Thanks a lot for the info on those Mike, appreciate it!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Meanwhile Jenny Kirk is like no no no Hornby spent years developing their models they don't steal ideas.
I am not trying to offend Jenny.
That's okay - Jenny has a much closer relationship with Hornby than I do. I pay for my models, so I'm not afraid to speak my mind!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains That is why your reviews are so useful, you tell the truth. I have watched so many reviews where they tell me the loco is good, only to find out it not so good when I buy it. If you say a loco is good, it generally is.
I've taken delivery of the 4 wheel BR brake baggage coach and a 6 wheel BR 3rd class, they do look good and will be rolling behind among others a Hattons P class. The quality is pretty good the main criticism was a squeaky set of middle wheels on the 6 wheel coach, a dab of oil cured it. I had pre-ordered two Southern Railways, but the order has been cancelled they seem to have been put back until later in the year or sold out. (already?).
However, I am still going with Hattons for their LB&SCR and SECR coaches, as you said it will be interesting to compare the two, the smaller companies should play their cards closer to the chest or risk being victims of a large company juggernaut.
Thanks for sharing Kevin! interesting about the 6-wheeler - I'll have to look out for any squeaking when I get mine! Sounds good - it will be very interesting to compare the two!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
7:21.
Nice! ;D
They look lovely and some LNER six wheelers might look nice behind my J11 (ignore the fact it’s in BR black), though I am a bit worried with this trend of Hornby copying others, let’s just hope these were coincidences
Yeah absolutely - the J11 is a great call actually! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Maybe Hornby could use their massive resources to build decent quality models...
haha that would be nice too Kenneth! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Fun-ish fact: Bachmann basically already produced LBSC 4-wheel coaches. Technically anyway, on the Thomas and Friends Range, when they produced the red branchline coaches.
Anyway nice review Sam!
That is true actually - though they're not as detailed as these! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains true, just thought I would point that out.
I got here in like the 1st 3 seconds
Nope
haha well done!! Very early this time mate! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains hi Sam I Started my Small locomotive collection by purchasing second hand Models and I am saving up to get my mainline Erlestoke Manor repaired and to buy the Hornby hush hush the one that hornby first released
Just picked up 1st, 2x3rd and Brake LB&SCR with lighting from Model Railways Direct for 21.75 each, very happy with them.
No, Sam, you're not a cretin and I do agree that Hornby is being selfish by duplicating the four-wheel range. Why don't they, instead, develop a range of vintage coaches that hasn't been produced before, such as the toplight coaches, dreadnoughts or even the arc roof variety. There are so many styles out there. Hornby are not showing any sort of inventive or brave skills by just copying everyone else and yes, they are damaging the industry. Come on Hornby, show some backbone and get your undoubted marketing and engineering skills working on projects that will really get the modelling hobby up and running to new heights. Sam, you said yourself how gorgeous the clerestory coaches were and there are so many more beautiful liveries out there. Sorry about the rant, lol.
These would go great with a terrier, I wrote this before you showed the terrier pulling them. But they would look good with the lbsc marsh umber liveried terriers
haha they certainly did do!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
they do look pretty nice, touch of weathering on the roof and underframe just to bring the details out and I could see actually liking a rake of these, don't look hard to fit lights too and a bit of paint would hide the raised floor bit
Yeah for sure - bit of weathering would make a huge difference!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The 4-wheel and 6-wheel coaches with lights are absolutely awesome - for a few pounds more I don't know why anyone would buy them without lights...
Fully agree with you Sam that to keep the hobby growing we need a wide variety of models to cater for everyone. For instance I grew up travelling on the lovely Class 304 EMU's into Manchester Piccadilly. I've never seen a model of one unfortunately, but still remember the big bouncy seats lol !
Thanks a lot mate yeah you're right... fingers crossed for a 304 one day... complete with bouncy seats!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks Sam. For your next servicing video I can recommend picking up some needle nose tweezers - they make it much easier to pick up that hair / errant piece of debris than normal tweezers do.
That's a good idea - I'll look into some, thanks! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, Lovely coaches and the livery is well done. A tat expensive seen the Roco 4 wheel "Donnerbüshe" with far more detail cost around 17€. But we observe dramatic price ++ changes now for most model railroad products. Competition is not necessary negative and might influence pricing. Thanks for reviewing & greetings
Thanks a lot Filip - yes too expensive really for what they are - maybe you're right about the competition... maybe the Hornby terriers would have been more expensive if not?
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
You should/must get a dappol class 68 especially tpe there's something about that livery
I've heard they're really good - I'll have to try one some time! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I am willing to make two guesses about this coaches.
1: these are part of the railway range (and therefore, are more expensive)
2: they aren't on Amazon yet
haha yep - right on 1, and probably right on 2!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think the competition strengthens the variety of choices in OO gauge, especially Bachmann who really crank out some nice pre-grouping models!
Yeah that's true, provided the competing companies mutually survive... particularly if one is much larger than the other!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I know people are mad about the competing between Hattons and Hornby but I’m not. I’m one of those people who like the fact that there are choices. There are only three Stroudly coaches that are available (to my knowledge). The new Hornby ones, the Hattons ones and the Bachman Thomas and friends coaches. Two of which are available in American and one of them is only one color. So I love the fact that we have multiple options for Stroudly coaches.
That's fair enough - thanks a lot for sharing!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I stand corrected because I was able to buy one off of eBay. All three are available. Although I’m not quite so sure about Hattons....
"R40069, nice." hehe
They look nice, although a bit basic for a £30 price tag. I'm tempted by some, although not sure which livery: LBSCR for the old tooled improved engine green terrier, LNWR to go with the coal tank, SR green to go with the BR malachite green terrier, or something else. I'd get a mix of types, without lights, but I'm also interested in some hattons ones too for comparison.
My dapol TPE 68 arrived today, is a little noisy on DC before running in though. And also an EWS 37/4, 411 Ty Hafan also arrived as my 7th 37/4 and my 12th bachmann 37.
haha nice! Yeah I agree, too basic for what they cost, but great looking overall! That sounds good - hopefully it'll get a bit quieter with time?!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review Sam! I’m looking forward to seeing more variations of these coaches. I’m interested in seeing which version between Hattons and Hornby is better and which is better value before I order any. Do you know when the Genesis coaches are being released? Hope you’re well!
Thanks very much Harry - I'm really interested to see what they're like too! I think they said Q1 2021, so hopefully not too long!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, another cracking video thanks 👍
I am inclined to agree with your view on duplication of product ranges. I only have experience in N gauge, but in general when one manufacture announces a direct competition product against another in N, one will back down.
Some notable exceptions are when there is enough of the prototype to cover many variations (the class 66 is a classic example), but annoyingly we have recently seen two manufactures covering the exact same loco!
Thanks so much Adam - yeah we've seen a fair bit of that happening too, though that's not the case here!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Bought three today to go with my LB&SCR engines. I agree these are good, though not sure I agree about Hornby stamping on smaller companies, given the lead time it takes to get them to market. If Hornby had been making a lot of profit over the years then I may agree that they are overpriced, however they haven't been, and I am quite happy to pay the price being asked. Really nice to have some LB&SCR coaches, to go with my engines (-:
Ahh fantastic! Not sure about that - ex Hornby employee claims that Hornby went to measure the 4 wheel prototype a month after the Genesis announcement. They say a locomotive takes 2 years to develop... I don't have any trouble believing the largest manufacturer in the industry could turn these basic coaches around in 15 months!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I'm still considering these though I just finished a ratio 4 wheeler kit before they were announced. But I like the idea of having a mix of different 4 wheeler designs as there were in real life even within a railway itself. I think itd be nice to see each model company do their own version of coach. Also I believe that the hornby ones are pretty much lbscr designs but they just decided to release them in multiple liverys because of hattons so you can tell as they have the quite distinctive ends on the brake coach. Great video can't wait to see the rest of the 4/6 wheelers.
Ahh that's bad luck mate - yeah that's true, not bad to have the two different designs out there I suppose!! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think the key difference between these and the Hattons one's are that the Hornby coaches are "Generic" (Which is how Hornby, themselves, described them). Meaning that every livery will have the same design, and will be less accurate in terms of design. The Hattons one's will have more accurate designs to fit each livery. So there's still enough differences between them for a consumer.
(My apologies if you covered this in your review, by the way, I was in Discord while watching this video, so people were talking over you.)
Great review, Sam!
Thanks for sharing! Both coach ranges are generic - the same is true of both ranges. Hornby's are less generic, as they're strongly influenced by the Stroudley design, but Hatton's aren't designing different coaches for every livery!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up. I think I'll try and get three or four then. They'd go well with the Hornby SE&CR H class I just got.
I've got a 3rd class and 3rd class brake, both in GWR livery, both with lighting. Looks really nice being pulled by my bachman Gwr 8750 pannier tank. Need a baggage and a first class but they look the part.
That sounds great Tim, glad to hear they look good!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I finally bought one of these. I bought a first class coach off of eBay and After looking at it I can’t seem to find that issue with the oil lamp caps. maybe the eBay seller found it and fixed it? I’m not sure but it’s possible. So far I haven’t experienced any problems with mine yet. Would definitely recommend it to anyone who wants Stroudly coaches but doesn’t want to 1. Wait for the Hatton’s ones or 2. Doesn’t have the budget for the Hattons ones.
Very nice! They're not all forced to have that issue - it's just something I noticed with mine!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains by the way when do you think you’ll be doing the review on the Hornby Terrier. I’m very interested in hearing your opinion
Love how you are always so honest with your reviews.
Thank you! I try my best! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I’ve ordered some NBR ones as “through coaches” for my Caledonian Railway set-up. Not feeling guilty about that, though, as Hatton’s have never announced any NBR livery. I’m swithering over what to do about the LNWR “through” coaches, though, as both Hornby and Hatton’s have announced them and they’re both due very soon... It’s great to see the Hornby coaches, though, Sam - thank you for that.
Ahh sounds fantastic - hope you really enjoy yours! Only time will tell on which turns out better!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I’m a big fan of the Era 2 stuff, so was very pleased when Hornby released the NBR coaches to go with my NBR loco “Maude”. I must say the lighting system works brilliantly and looks fantastic- well worth the extra few quid - can be retro fitted too which is great as an upgrade 👍 thanks Sam - great review as always 🚂
Great to hear that - yes it's amazing to finally have coaches for these lovely locos! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Looked up some of the others in the range: Impressed with the GWR LNWR SR & NBR. No Midland Railway? but Hattons seem to have that covered.
Yeah there's a great selection - maybe more liveries will follow I guess?
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hello Sam, those are some neat coaches you got there. Why don’t you run the E2 with the brake coach and one regular coach so it looks like Thomas, Annie and Clarabel?
Thanks a lot mate! Ooh yeah I could totally do that - great idea!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains heheh 😊
These are nice. I’ve still got the Hattons ones on preorder as they are the only ones doing the LMS livery at the moment. To me it looks like Hornby were originally going to make Stroudley Coaches for their Terriers, but then they spotted what Hattons were doing and went generic. It’s disappointing that they did this because Southern region modellers could have had some detailed prototypical pre-grouping coaches. All this said, I think it’s great that the big manufacturers are finally doing these pre-grouping coaches. When I took up the hobby I was really surprised to see that the only RTR 4 wheel coaches on the market were those ugly Hornby ones with old tooling. Not exactly inspiring! Not all of us have a gigantic layout to run a rake of the 57ft coaches. A small tank engine with some 4 or 6 wheelers is not only cheaper, but it’ll look great on a small layout like mine. Kudos to both Hattons and Hornby for (belatedly) making a lot of modellers dreams come true.
Thanks Lach - yes you could be right there, that sounds very likely! It is good to see pre-grouping coaches at last though - it's like waiting for a bus! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I'll say these are the ultimate favorite coaches I'll buy these when i start my model railway.
Awesome!! Sounds like a plan! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Lner 6 wheeled ones are fantastic too
I ordered four of the BR Crimson 6-wheelers with lights. Look great with the lights off or on... Until you run them in darkness. Either the LEDs are too bright or the paint is very thin on the coaches because the bodys are illuminated from the inside and it looks terrible. Also, the 6 wheelers sometimes have derailments on double slips and 3-way points. Still going for some Hattons ones though.
Really?! That's insane! How did they manage to mess that up?!?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I'm not sure but I'm thinking of modifying mine somehow. Probably with some light absorbing paint inside. But really, we shouldn't have to make these kinds of modifications ourselves. I think Hornby have rushed these out to beat Hattons and have missed the mark somewhat.
The weird thing is, I've seen footage of the LNER teac versions with lights on and there's no light bleed through the bodies at all. Very strange.
Waiting for the hattons ones. I was going to out of principle and now seeing these compared to the hattons pre-production examples it has to be said I think the detail and decoration leave something to be desired on these Hornby ones. Along with the hattons ones having track powered lighting it's an easy decision. Ironic that in many ways these smaller manufactures are showing up the bigger ones.
That's a great idea - and sure, these do leave something to be desired... may the best manufacturer win!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
What do you think about the McIntosh 812 Class 0-6-0 that is coming soon from Rails of Sheffield by Bachmann?
They really do look amazing! Can't justify one at that price though unfortunately - not £200! :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Agree, for that price at least 'top notch' and sound fitted (even TTS)... price put me off from pre-order yet.
When the Hatton's ones come out you've got to compare the same body styles, their 4- and 6-wheel chassis(mainly the 6), the lighting, their respective versions of the same liveries and the variety of overall available options
Definitely! I'll be sure to do that!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam if I use a control remote for the rail with a different set will it work and will other trains work on it or does the control only use the one train that was assigned??
That depends - if you're using analogue, it'll control every engine on the circuit of track. To control them independently, you need DCC!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thank you!!
These coaches did not appear overnight, because when Hornby made their announcement the coaches were already in the warehouse. As you know Sam, it takes time from the drawings to the ready to run stages. I agree with Jenny Kirk, I think there is a market for both makers to sell their products, but most of all it lets the consumer have a choice and that cannot be a bad thing. My disappointment is neither of them is offering any NER coaches. They were in a darker maroon colour with a hint of blue. I wish both companies all the best, but Hornby make sure you are on top of your QC. the slight problems pointed out in this video should have been sorted at the Engineering sample stage. Martin. (Thailand)
Not overnight Martin, nobody was suggesting that! An ex Hornby employee claimed that the real coaches were measured/surveyed in November 2019, the month following Hatton's Genesis announcement... so rather than overnight, we're talking about 14 months from the survey to arriving on shelves... sounds about right, as they say locomotives take around 2 years, and these are much much simpler.
There may well be a market for both - it seems they are both excellent products to be fair, and I'll certainly be buying plenty of both!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've just received two of the 4 wheel GNR coaches with lights and I think they're fantastic! It's a bit awkward with Hattons though but I've two GWRs on preorder with them so I don't feel too bad!
Ahh sounds great Darrel - sure, whatever you enjoy the most! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
With any luck there will be slight variations between the Hornby coaches and those from Hattons which will make it worth using both, Of course, that will only work if both manufacturers use the same shades of paint!
There are indeed - Hornby's are based on Stroudley coaches, and Hatton's are a bit more generic!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Concerning the fact that Hornby are in competition with Hattons, if you want to represent 2 pre-grouping companies, it is nice to have slightly different coaches for them. I have already ordered Hattons coaches in SECR livery, and am likely to go for Hornby coaches in LBSCR livery.
Edit: I looks to me as if the Hornby ones look more like the Stroudley (LBSCR) 4 wheel coaches than the Hattons ones.
Yes that's absolutely right Richard - that's the silver lining isn't it? Hornby's are indeed heavily based on the Stroudley coaches!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A real massive step up from those even more basic, shorter and somewhat toy-like coaches that Hornby been producing for decades. Were these coached made prior to these intended to be accurate to a certain type of branch line coach?
Yeah that's for sure Tomas, much better than those!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I just did a quick comparison with 4 wheel DB coaches from Roco. They have much better detail and separately applied parts. They come preconfigured to easily install interior lighting kits designed for them. They have close coupling mechanisms which these Hornby coaches do not. Don't mistake NEM boxes on floppy plastic mounts for close coupling mechanism. And the Roco coaches cost 25€ which is about £18.
Heaven help Hornby if Roco or Trix/Marklin ever decide to compete. Hornby own Jouef and Rivarossi and they would never dare to sell overpriced rubbish like these coaches under those labels. Please British modelers start demanding better products and better value for money.
Thanks a lot for sharing -yes I did feel that these were pretty basic for what they cost... haha yeah, that'd be the day wouldn't it?!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Interesting review. A head-to-head comparison with the Genesis coaches would be interesting. I agree with your comment - Hornby should stop trying to duplicate smaller manufacturers' new products and really do something different - perhaps some authentic early coaches rather than generic ones?
Thanks very much - yeah it will be, I might do something along those lines! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Love These Coaches Looks Very Old Fashioned, Detail Looks Insane And Glad You Got Plenty Of London And Brighton South Coast Railway (LBSC) Locos And Very Suit Them
Yeah me too Alan - loving all the old fashioned coaches!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey um sam? Do you know the 5mt Black 5 No. 44767 “George Stephenson”? I’ve noticed something about the side rods, it has a different setup than normal Black 5 steam locomotives, why is that?
An experimental loco to test the use of outside Stephenson's valve gear.
Works well but some disadvantages so not pursued more.
@@johnd8892 oh ok I see, thanks for the info
Thanks for this John - I wasn't aware of this one, very interesting!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think it's nice to have more choice between which manufacturer I'm buying models from. If the Rails terrier was the only one available I'd probably just not buy a Terrier at all because of how shoddily they were produced. This type of competition might force companies like Hornby and Bachmann to be better, which ultimately benefits the consumer and lowers prices of locomotives and rolling stock.
Considering getting the lner rack, but I don't have large amounts of money and don't intend to get anything until the end of the year, so I'll wait until hattons coaches come out and see how they compare. Fantastic review as all was Sam keep up the good work!
Ahh that's fair enough Matt - yeah no harm in waiting at all, best to know where you stand!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Your first 2:15 of this video sums up the situation perfectly!
Thanks a lot mate, glad you approve!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
My goodness, these look amazing! I'm so glad that there are now more Stroudly Coaches on the market than the one bachmann make for the thomas and friends range. Don't get me wrong, their awesome, but it's just nice to have another option.
They do indeed Warren - it is great to finally see these isn't it?! Much better than Bachmann's, that's for sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Woohoo! Those coaches look absolutely gorgeous behind your terrier, there! And don't feel bad! I've had beautiful "American" 4-4-0's for decades, and only got matching coaches for each just last year! >.> Now I suddenly want to get some pre-grouping British trains!
Thanks a lot George - yeah they really do don't they?! I don't blame you for that!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've already got a pre-order for one of hattons' 6 wheeled coaches to complete an lner sleeper train I've been working on for some time now, saves me having to buy a kit and I've got faith in them so I'm gonna stick with hattons on this one
Ahh sounds fantastic Mitchell, hopefully they're good! I have plenty of those on order too! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
bought one of the 6 wheel teak ones with lights and have to say i do really like them, ordered two more so i can have a somewhat okay rake of them, gonna try the hattons ones as well to see which i like more and that one will be in the ncb blue
Ahh fantastic mate - glad to hear you're happy! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hornby has made 4-wheeled coaches similiar to Bachmann's The Railway Children train pack coaches, maybe you can buy the coach and maybe fix the train pack since the brake coach wasn't really similar to theone in the movie
Ooh that's a very good idea - I never thought of that!! :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have the LBSC ones, the baggage van, first class, third class and brake coach in my possession, they all look truly wonderful ☺️
It's nice to be able to have some more realistic carriages, though I'm interested in seeing the 6 wheel version from Hattons
Great to hear that Tom - yes they do look wonderful in a rake don't they?! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The Old Teak's are now called the Railroad Teak's so does this mean that the Old Teak's and old 4 Wheel Coaches are gone?
Yeah that's right - I'd guess they will be yeah, these will probably replace them! Maybe they'll still turn up in train sets though??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I will be mixing and matching with the Hattons' ones. One 6w Hornby with a couple of Hattons 4w for my Isle Of Wight layout.
Me too Nathan - sounds like a plan! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
That's Hornby alright. They do have a *track record* for stepping on the toes of other manufacturers. It's no coincidence that Hornby released their Class 66 in a variety of guises when the Hatton's one came about. Of course the Hattons 66 is still in a league of it's own as the Hornby version would be more of a budget model in comparision. Though it can still be pretty bad for lesser known companies. A notable example is the announced Cavalex Class 91. It's great that Hornby finally did bother to replace their aging tooling but unfortunately Cavalex cancelled theirs once Hornby got in on the act. Both would be nice especially if one focussed on liveries the other hasn't. Nonetheless those coaches certainly do look splendid. It is nice to see Hornby pushing for more pre-grouping stuff.
They do indeed - and flooding the market with cheap class 66s definitely wasn't a coincidence! It sounds like Hornby were producing their 91 before Cavalex, but the fact is that the Cavalex one was going to be higher-specced... and now it's not happening!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Haven’t clicked on a video this fast since then Hatton’s Genesis coaches.
So beautiful, these coaches are. Them and Henrietta are tied with my favorite passenger rolling stock.
Also, you should’ve gotten the LBSC E2 to pull these coaches. It would’ve been like Thomas is pulling Annie, Clarabel, and a new name I just came up with, Bethany :)
haha thanks a lot Jin - yeah they are beautiful aren't they? Great thought on the E2! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have watched a few reviews on these coaches already in different liveries and the same issues keep coming up like the minimal detail on the bodies and chassis of the carriages compared to the engineering samples of the Genesis coaches Hattons loaned to you and other railway modellers on UA-cam. I think the only thing these coaches have in advantage is the magnetic light system, but I can see the clips holding bodies onto the chassis wearing or breaking over time when the batteries have to be replaced.
Thanks for sharing Ben - yes a bit disappointed in their simplicity given the price, but they look great and run well, so I'm happy overall! Genesis looks to be far better for the money, but only time will tell!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
They’re ok for what they are, I got three of the North British Railway maroon 6 wheel ones, I find they sometimes struggle to go round 2nd radius curves not exactly the best runners. Looking forward to the hattons ones now got high hopes for those...cheers Ryan
Yeah you're right Ryan, and the NBR ones look great, strange about them struggling though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Yeah maybe they'll ease up after a few running sessions. Its mainly the centre wheel stops turning? see what you find if you get any 6 wheelers...Ryan :-)
Part of me kinda wants to see the Bachmann Thomas pulling these as these are the kinds of coaches used in the show! Also, I hate to be negative, but I'm still gonna go with the Hattons coaches as they seem to be much more detailed, but that's just me personally! Love the video!
haha yeah - I'll have to get Thomas to pull these one day! Looks like Hatton's will be much better, that's for sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They just remind me of the red coaches from Thomas season 17-20 I think and the dark green ones from season 1
Not to mention Annie and clarabel
haha totally - they look a lot like them!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They really do! Thomas is actually an LBSC E2 class, so those coaches might have been brought to Sodor with him. Interesting...
@MANUEL PEREZ-KUNIGA thanks!
@@willhooker9567 that’s what I thought too, but I already knew Thomas’s class. it said it on his side tanks in TAB. I think if these coaches were available in the livery of Annie and clarabel or in dark green, they would be great for old coaches and Annie/clarabel type coaches without faces! :)
@MANUEL PEREZ-KUNIGA I know but they still look alike
Hey Sam, can't wait for my Hattons Genesis Coaches...I expect they will be of superior Quality. Thanks for your very informative review.
Sounds good mate - I expect so too, but can't say it for sure until I've received my production version... fallen into the trap of drawing conclusions from pre-production samples before! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)