Predator 224cc vs. Predator 212cc In-Depth Comparison + Teardown | At The Wheel #12
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- Опубліковано 17 бер 2022
- Technical comparison and in-depth teardown of the Predator 224cc Max Performance and the Predator 212cc engines sold by Harbor Freight. We're removing the heads, side cover, flywheel and more to get a better look at each engine to decide who is the winner in the Predator 224cc vs. 212cc. Of course, the Predator 224cc has more displacement, but is the design any better than the classic Predator 212cc go kart or mini bike engine? And also, are Predator 212cc performance parts the same as Predator 224cc performance parts?
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keep up the good work gentlemen . Im 65 years old but still 14 at heart . Im hoping to come to the Go power sports race next year. thank you !!
Awesome to see the differences between these engine, Charles, ike, and John make the the videos so entertaining
This is very helpful, I appreciate the seriousness of the comparison of the two engines.
Great video fellas. I'm bummed I missed this live.
Video length isn't an issue for us watching later while we work... kinda nice to have a lengthy video on a topic of interest to listen to while we work. FYI. Keep up the videos guys.
I feel the same , I always listen to podcasts while I work, and I usually choose the longer ones!!
Great in-depth tear down. Very useful.
Guys, The best way to measure volume is to weigh your water using a food scale that weighs in units of grams. 1 gram = 1cc. GREAT VIDEO. LEARNED A LOT.
Very informative. Building 👷♂️ a bigger version my self, 301 on an old Suzuki, can't wait to finish.great vid!!!
If I may offer a suggestion: a camera on the ceiling pointing down at the table and a camera behind and in-between for just such an occasion.
I would love to see you guys find 3 of the same karts and all have the same engine and have a build off and do the Grand Prix. Or all of you make your own kart and same engine and see who is the better builder
Ike has the most experience, so he could probably get it done the fastest, but I'd say they all know how to do everything to the same ability. Especially since you can UA-cam or Google anything now days.
Don’t wait for them, do it.
I am glad yall got to sample some sled power. Get your hands on a ZRT 800 put it in a cross kart and that Suzuki will change your life. FyI the length of a con rod cannot change the displament. A longer rod will push the piston higher but at BDC the piston will remain higher. Bore and stroke are the only way to change displacement. Ec carburetors turned the world upside down when they unleashed the Wildcat engines
Keep uploading them! Love vids!!😅
Would be cool to see a full rebuilt... Or like a build off race... Start with all the pieces on the table. Reassembler style 😎🛠️
Maybe Charles is faster because he's not talking as much as Ike? Also, since Ike has the new 224, it looks like he's taking his time looking for the differences. Have you looked in the manual to see of they have exploded parts diagrams, and if they have part numbers for the carbs? They may be the exact same parts, but with the increased displacement, you could probably really wake up the "Max" with a carb and header. I'm wondering about the head, specifically the combustion chamber shape and size, and if there's an increase in compression ratio. Shave the head, thinner head gasket, and that's even more squeeze. Add a performance am, billet flywheel/rod, flat top piston, cam/valvesprings, port/polish the runners, and *BAM*, you're a local legend! LoL
I've wondered this for years...why not drill out stock muffler and keep noise down...I've done both header and modified muffler and don't notice power change. Only decibel level!
What happen to the main channel I only see tesla tsla or something like that
Hi I'm building a 224, I'm just wondering if the parts I got for it wont blow it up, what I already have on it is a governor delete, oil censor delete, cast aluminum fly wheel rated for 10k rpm, billet rod, 18lb valve springs and a mikuni clone round slide. I ordered a .01 head gasket, 22lb valve springs, and a 265 hot cam. ill do the necessary clearancing, but I'm just wondering if I need anything else for my setup to run reliably.
What's happened to the normal channel I cannot find it anymore loved it
You guys need a zoom on that camera, for when Charles and Ike are trying to show closer details. and possibly putting the mics. on booms. thanks for zooming in John although it could used just tiny bit more. and pointing the camera down a tiny bit. I'm willing to bet that with the higher torque numbers. that the crankshaft will a longer throw and be heavier.
hemi stands hemispherical, which mean the combustion chamber is more rounded. with the valves at an angle towards each other. the hemi will have a larger combustion chamber volume. but that can be made up for by the piston for compression. to achieve more torque the engine likely has to have a longer stroke. the only way you measure the stoke is with a dial indicator. I have never been a fan of the Honda clone engine's. Briggs and Stratton is the way to go they are so build able. when are you going return the Honduki. maybe next time you should get a cameraman or camera woman. maybe Charles wife would be able to do that.
Did you other account get banned I can't find it
Do they make a metal replacement cam gear for the 224cc?🤔
I am wondering if the engines are the same in dimensions, two-wheeler to 224 fit in a mini bike where the 212 came out
Which one is best for Tennessee mountains,. I'm not looking for the speed I'm looking for the pulling power,
Will the to 24 fit in the same spot on a mini bike as a 212
And btw the sound was perfect!! Ur right John... The camera angles need something....
Don’t you have a measuring cup quake for measuring two-stroke oil when you mix use that I measure when you’re trying to cc those heads
the 212 is on sale right now at harbor freight for $109 I believe, I almost got it but then I saw the 224 was also on sale and it went for the same as the 212 normally does so I snatched it up! I think it will be an improvement over my 196 stock motor
where do i find motors cuz i want to build a kart
hey man
was wonder what happened to you guys the cars and cameras channel seems to be gone
hope you can get it back....
Gotta love the thumbcromitor
So one thing you can do with the 224 is put a flat top hemi piston in it and get a longer rod to get zero deck height as well you can more than likely depending on the thickness of the valve stem a hemi 212 has a 5.5 mm thick stem if the 224 has a 5mm valve stem you can ream the valve guides to 5.5 mm and get a larger valve kit from go powersports 26mm and 27mm you will also need to check piston to valve clearance you will probably need a thicker head gasket because of the zero deck height keep up the good work fellas. 👍
224 piston reaches desk height anyway so I don't think a longer rod is needed.
@@tomstech4390 if they put a flat top piston the piston would more than likely be down in the hole
@@Killerchicken10 The wrist pin difference is 0.009in.
0.581 (224) vs 0.572in (212) so technically yes it will be fractionally further down in the hole... but if you put a 0.009in longer rod in it that means its also 0.009in higher when at BDC so it makes no difference to compression ratio etc. If anything the dished piston creates an (initially) smaller combustion chamber volume and increase early peak cylinder pressures which is probably why they did it.
Stock length billet clone rod and a (570) 70mm flat top puts you in or out of the hole identical to what it was stock. Then start on clrearancing the block and cam. haha.
Forgot... You can use a EC carbs billet rod and 70mm piston.
Just tore down my 212 (non hemi) max and my 224 max and the lobes on my 212 (non hemi) have more travel.._could you guys look into this and make it make sense for a newbie lk ike me...Thanks the great detail vids and info you guys rock for real bro
Careful flat top Pistons could slap the valves and nock the keepers off the valve stems. There will be a minimum clearance on the intake and exhaust. The exhaust always has more clearance for heat expansion. I built a 434 small block once and ran a gear drive. Under a pull motor ran great but at the end of the track when letting up the motor would drop the valves. The clearance was 80 on the intake and 100 on the exhaust. At the end of the track because of heat my exhaust valve clearance was closer because of heat.The motor would go kaboom. Piston slapping the valves..
It would have been nice to see what the parts or sections of the motor look like at the same time.
Are blueprints not available
Should have checked the base circle of the cams. If one has a smaller base circle, it would have more lift.
Rod length doesn't equal stroke... Crank throw does.
Please make a video using the 3d clutch it a manual clutch for the 212. And will fit the 224
The block is beefier and came lift is slightly higher, so I’d take it.
Why not just go to the 301? Im assuming thy use a lot of the same parts?
The trouble with those tests is that they never test at the same r.p.m. which of course is not a fair challenge for either engine
Bore and stroke decides cubic inches or cc, or used to.
I thought the displacement was the measurement of space, measured by liquid, that determines the cc of the engine? So the 224 would hold more water. No? Very difficult to measure though, especially in that situation. LOL.
Any engine builder nowadays should know there is a replacement for displacement it's called compressed air
I just swapped the 196cc out of my MB200 with a new 224cc, I can pull a steep hill that the 196cc could only halfway. Very noticeable torque! One difference I noticed, the carburetor is missing the bowl under the fuel cutoff.
I robbed the flywheel off of the 196 b/c of the coils inside & transplanted the trailmaster headlight wire so I could use the Headlight. I want a billeted flywheel, but they don't have the headlight coil inside, not sure how to install/cement that.
Also, I noted oddly, that "225" was laser-stamped on the block, not 224. Any one else notice this?!?
Love seeing the legos in the background
Thanks Fellas
We learned a lot! What do you think about the results? Is the 224 worth the extra $40?
If the numbers are to believed going from 8ftlb>10ftlb is a 25% increase....its still only 2ftlb so not going to be a rip roaring monster but it'll maintain speed that little bit better in the rough stuff, so if people can afford it sure, if not the 212 is still as good as it ever was.
We really need a non hemi comparison vs 224.
I like all the changes (cam aside) in the 224 over a hemi 212.
212 vs 224 basically your never going to see difference. Stay with Tilitson. You really see difference when you compare a 420 vs 459.
If I were building something, I'd definitely get a 224, but replace the piston with a flat-top one and plastic cam gear with steel.
@@tomstech4390 The advertised 8.1 ft/lbs of torque for the 212 is not correct. Back in 2009 you could get a Harbor Freight 196 that had 8.1 ft/lbs of advertised torque. The 212 has a bit more torque than a 196. And I have seen Harbor freight coupons announcing 9.7 ft/lbs of torque for the 212.
I see the 224 as just another one of the many better engine options than the Pred 212 for not that much more money and of better quality. The 224 is made by Ducar.
The 225's carburetor says Ducar on it, the same manufacturer as the Tillotson.
Hi I Ben watch yall shows I have a 224 engine looking to make it faster wat can I do without spending $900
I was really surprised that none of you knew the hemi's advantage of swirling the intake charge in the combustion chamber. Nothing to do with compression.
What's more important is that they know there's no significant advantage to using a hemi head. And that most all serious builds are done with a straight valve head.
Ike: yours is longer
Charles: I know and that's what she said
58mm stroke instead of 55mm I believe.
Wow a red pull start. All they need is the white gastank lol
Allsome 🌟😁🎉👍
ive seen a couple different comparisons the 224 isnt the ghost 212
Hey have you guys ever seen the channel "robot cantina"? If not it is a must see, this guy is an absolute genius!!! You will learn about turbos and superchargers and a lot about electrical and how to set up predators and more. He is definitely worth checking out 👍🏻
Bigger port equal less velocity. Think of it like a water hose ,no restriction the water just dribbles out . Then place your thumb over the hose you get more velocity. Small valves need more velocity where larger valves need more flow.
When velocity increases cfm decreases fill a bucket of water with the water free flowing hose then do it with your thumb over the end it may increase pressure but it will take longer to fill the bucket
Hey guys, will a Predator 212 Hemi head be an upgrade on a Predator 224?
No. The 224 head would be an upgrade for the Hemi.
You guys do know those are calipers and not micrometers right?
I wish that I could work with you guys .
Just start SWAPPIN parts! 😱😁😆🤪🤣👍👍🇺🇲
$1k says those engines aren't put back together for a full year and the parts get mixed up.
Next time you do a break down. You should get a table lazy Lazy Susan Or table caddy whatever you wanna call it.so you can spin the engines or whatever you’re breaking down much easier
Why are you using batteries on a static camera?
Our charger wasn’t working for some reason
@@atthewheelwithcarsandcamer5345 I was just saying if the camera is not going to be moved then it should be or could be plugged into an AC outlet with a cord.
Dont forget deck height with measurements.
A friend of mine told me I had to watch this video. He was adamant about it and was explaining it a little bit so I'm a little confused as to where the football is does it come in closer to the end or what?
....jk guys. Keep it up fellas I have no doubt they will run better when yall are done!!!!
Move the camera above!
Make a 249 cc with no gov and a cast flywheel and a billet rod and a vm22 out the box and make it orange and green
Your battery was exhausted from listening to this 😮😮
does anyone else see CarsandCameras channel name as Tesla TSLA
yea, looks like theyve been hacked
They lost the 8mm and I literally have one on my nightstand
Eveytime there's a new hole reviled somebody puts their finger in it... nice! LoL
bro on the right deff a toker👌
Seems like the 212 Ghost is a better value if you aren't building it beyond stage 1. 212 is a better value over the 224
Way better throttle on 224 and carb
the 212. It's still *only* 149.99 (I remember when they were 99.99) Thanks Biden.
They were actually $99 when Obama was President. Thanks Obama!
@@deepthinker1918 so if that's all true then THANKS TRUMP!!!
@@bustinyanutz4195 it happened before trump
@@SuperiorBuilds613 yep everything happened before or after trump except for all the indictments
The 212s are $100 again with coupon. Who do I thank now?
The 224 has lil bigger crank and makes a lil longer stroke that it where the difference in cc comes from ! Makes 2 ft lb s more torque than the 212
Get a beaker set and cc the chambers.
Hit the like y'all
Caliper... not micrometer.
Redbeard uses Amsoil in everything
You should have put the hemi head on the 224
Put non hemi head on a hemi an have more compression
If I go out in these mountains,. And I carry a sleeping bag on the front and rear of the luggage carrier,. And I get in a bad spot where I've got to pull and walk beside up the hills,.
Which one's going to be the best one for helping me get in there and get back out ?
HIGHLY technical comparison….. “Ah can stick mah THUMB all tha way in the intake port….”
i just realized im not subbed wtf i thought i was been watching for years
I don't know much but I know you too pretty small engine mechanics are looking sexy as hell. See if you can't get two fingers in that exhaust port , a little spit always does the trick. Micrometers & super small calipers doing all that measuring gets me heated.
The stroke is longer in the 224.
Yeah, only 3 MMs
at 129 min i yawned then u yawned lmao crazy !!!!
You can't swap out they're not the same
Actually torque moves mass, too much torque on a drag car isn't good because if you're spinning you ain't winning
Ike John Charles Look Out For The Predator 212cc Ghost
Hey boys
Amsoil for the win
Cast flywheels aren't the best 🙈
That 224 ain't a HEMI.
THAT 212 IS A HEMI
That's a good thing. If I wanted a hemi head I would get the Wildcat 223.
put the triumph 955 on the mower !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what happened
You all need someone more savvy abouts engines. And how to describing them.
Hemi has the flat top piston, the 212 has a dished piston. Compression will be nearly identical...Measuring the volume of the chamber alone will not give an accurate compression ratio unless the volume of the dished piston is taken into account as well as the distance each piston is below the block deck (or in the hole)...Knuckleheads!
Uwharrie is known for Bigfoot. You guy's think they exist?