Hey Matt! Pleased to be a viewer a of yours. Do you think you will ever make a video on traditional Filipino or malay blades? Was really glad to see the Moro Kris have some face time.
Thank you from the video - I just want to throw some science in it. From a micro structural point of view, you need a uniform tempered martensite structure to obtain extreme flexibility (bending the steel ina U shape withour plastic deformation) and tbh only modern technology brought us this far, since period swords were not uniform to that extent (you will always find places in which the blade is not uniform but softer/harder and that could lead to a failure). And if we look at the literature of sword analyzed in that microscopic way, only a handful present such structure, hence why the statement of Ilya I believe is correct, purely from that sample (which as you can immagine is not larger). Eventually all hardened steel can take some elastic deformation (returning to true) and "spring back" to some extent although much of this has to do with cross section and stiffness of the blade (a katana is just thicker and stout, so you will need much more force to obtain the flex you see in this video - the same amount of force that can cause a longsword to take a set for example). The degree of flex in historical swords is also related to edge hardnes and period. Uniform tempered martensite period tend to have softer edges compared to layered/piled ones that cannot have a tempered martensite core (too little carbon to be hardened). These blades can still take some degree of force and have elastic deformation, skallagrim recently tested some differential hardening blades and you can see the flex during the cut footage. The difference lies in the yielding point in which plastic deformation happens and the amount of force required to create such yield.
(As a note, thank you for the work. I know these have been times of criticism towards you. I respect you as a person and I respect your decision. It is not on us to comment on it. Adult people should be able to decide for themselves and you do not need to explain yourself to us. Keep it up).
A point of metallergy: Excluding mostly modern high alloy steels, the temperature of quench to harden doesn't vary for how hard you want the steel, being based on the same crystalline phase transition. The carbon content has some influence on pre-quench heat. The carbon and alloy content, and speed of quench (oil vs. water, thickness of material) impacts how hard the steel gets. Following the quench a blade is usually tempered, heated to a lesser temperature allowing the metal to relax some, which makes the steel softer but tougher. Temperature, time, and alloy all influence how much the temper softens the steel.
Always funny to me when people call modern epees unrealistically floppy car antennae. Even ignoring how much stiffer they are compared to historical foils used for smallsword training, I've had jackets torn by an epee that broke at the tip. People have died from them. People vastly overestimate how stiff a sharp bit of metal needs to be to be dangerous.
Yep, when I was at my local saber competition for u18s MANY years ago one of the sabreurs got a sabre in his knee in his last match and had to go to hospital. I don't know how deep it was; not very I suspect because he was at the nationals later that year and utterly thrashed me. But you're right it does happen and it's a while since I've fenced but I remember an apee being quite a lot stiffer than a saber.
I get stabbed into armpit area with epees through my hema jacket and it's unpleasant, actually not much less unpleasant than hema military saber. Thrusts produce so much force even via 300g flexible sport sword
i think part of that is because they actively utilize the flop in a way you probably wouldn’t with a real swords. And besides small swords and epee du combat are usually pretty stiff, if not fully triangular. of course, its all about degrees.
Any perceived floppiness in modern epees are mainly the result of the barrel and tip used for electric scoring. You can feel the same phenomena when putting rubber tips on HEMA blades. Floppiness isn't the same as blade flex.
A few additions: It is almost never shown, but Japanese swords are tempered above the fire after quenching (so low temperature tempering). Metals are all crystalline. The phase is different: edge (hamon) is martensite, back is ferrite, in between is a mixture of martensite, bainite, and ferrite.
It's not uncommon for Japanese smiths to have left a very very thin layer of clay only on the very spine of a sword, to give the blade additional spring, prevent attacks cutting as deeply into it during defense, and control the changes in the curvature during quenching.
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 Ferrite only tells you that the cooling rate was slow enough that carbon could diffuse out of it. I forgot to write that there is a bit of pearlite mixed with the ferrite. There are reports of the mune having about 0.2~0.3mass% carbon. At any rate, it seems the hardness of the mune can be around 200 Vickers hardness.
@@RockModeNickfrom all the documentaries I've seen, it seems the whole blade is fully 'clay' covered, albeit the mixtures of clay slips to charcoal soot/embers being different granular sizes and of a differing thicknesses between the thinner edge 'clay' (to achieve a faster cooling when immersed) and the rest of the swords thicker body's and spine's 'clay'. But the whole blade is covered to prevent oxidiisation during the quench from the liquid used splitting from the initial heat.
@@amacadreoh I see what you mean. What you are witnessing is likely the kobuse method of forging when the high carbon steel is made into a U shape and a piece of medium or low carbon steel put inside of it. That lower carbon piece will end up being the core and spine while the higher carbon steel makes up the edge and the sides.
Hi Matt! Thank you for bringing on this topic. I have dedicated a lot of years reading the literature (mainly works of A.Williams and related, but also other Japanese related papers) and while to some extent I agree with you, I think I am not fully aligned here. The problem is that this topic is approached in very black and white terms and it is more nuanced than that. Every swords (or piece of hardened steel, to some extent) will flex and return to true, having an elastic deformation. Be it a katana, a dha, longsword and so on. The crucial issue here is the force applied and how far is the yielding point with such items, and it is not entirely related to the microstructure (the temper), but also to the thickness and cross section of the blade. Skallagrim tested multiple times differentially hardened blades and you can see the cutting footage of those blades flexing and bending while returning to true. There is also a destructive test on a modern made Katana made by Taro Asano and he did perform a bending test with his blade - it got bent over 45° once and returned to a bend angle of around 10-15°, so they do have a significant stress margin considering that the force applied to bend such thick blade to that extent is much higher to what you will apply to a thinner cross section (which as you said, flex under their own weight). So it is much more nuanced than "oh katana bends and stay bend, European swords flex" because both swords do bend and flex, but the forces required to achieve deformation are different and so are the yielding point. Moreover, a flexible structure is not that desirable in a thrusting implement, you want a stiff structure to direct the force - I get what you mean by being desirable, but you want a stiff cross section that allow very little deformation in the first place. Concerning the medieval term here, I do not agree that the majority of blades were spring tempered. They might have been in the late 16th century, but the data from A.Williams point otherwise (point in case, they might be old, but still). I get what you mean by saying available and not rare, but people would assume that every single blade in medieval Europe (regardless of the high or low period) was spring tempered and we know from metallurgical results that such was not the case especially well before the 16th century. As for the edge hardness, again that is not entirely related on how easy is to break or chip a edge. Edge geometry play a much more important role here. A brittle edge defines is mode of failure more than the likelihood of failure. Softer edges are much more likely to roll and deform (on a microscopic level this is what you refer as dulling), than harder eges. A hard edge is much more resilient against wear and tear, but it will crack upon failure. In Japanese traditional bladesmithing, this is mitigated with several techniques like having "ashi" in the hamon. Moreover, many kotō blades tend to have a monosteel structure and different phases of the steel. One of them, known as utsuri, do allow the blade to deform much more as it is an added layer of bainite. And the hamon in itself has advantages over the crack propagation. I can probably go on even further but I will stop here. Just want to re iterate that the majority of the blades were by large not monosteel spring tempered ones, especially for the medievla periods, but that elastic deformation does not happen only with such structure.
As an additional note, yes, spring tempered blades and others do flex. But the extent to which these weapons bend and return to true (without catastrophic failure!) Is nowhere near comparable to modern alloy based steel!
Thanks for writing all this. I have handled some early medieval swords that were springy, and after publishing this video I was contacted by other people who have the same experience of other early medieval (viking era) swords. Obviously of all the medieval swords I have handled, I was not able to guess the springiness of some/many of them, but quite a few of them certainly were springy, as shown in this video at the Met.
@@scholagladiatoria Thank you for reading all of this! I think this goes with the fact that hardened steel can bend and return to true to some extent - and I suspect (and hope!) that those medieval swords did show spring properties but were not put under severe force and pressure to see how much flex they could tolerate. You will be able to "eye ball" the springness on thinner blades compared to something thick like Japanese blades, since they will flex under little pressure compared to something stiffer. In that sense, I'd expect those early swords to fall shortly compared to our modern replicas, for obvious reasons. Keep it up!
Any idea why this video has more than 50% dislikes? I have been watching this channel for years and never seen such a ratio on your videos. This video is just as good as all your other content
Well done. Wasn't aware that wootz blades were sometimes edge hardened. It's kind of an outlier as well due to its metallurgy, but that's another video. Was glad you mentioned native made Indian swords; I think many people are not aware that the Indo-Persion peoples have a LONG history of steelmaking.
Greetings from Croatia !!! Matt Easton I found your channel through Shad (from Shadiversity). I have been following you, supporting & sharing your content since 2015. I'm a small blacksmith from Croatia, many of your videos have helped me improve my blacksmithing skills, I'm very grateful to you for that. I wanted to work with you in the near future, but after your attitude towards Shad, I don't know if you would want that. Because I'm a conservative Christian like Shad is. My question is am I welcomed or not on your channel or should I leave if it's a problem for you, because of my deep convictions. I would appreciate your reply.
You can be conservative and you can be Christian without being an asshole. You just need to conduct yourself like Jesus himself would towards people. Sadly, Shad can't.
The problem isn't Christians, it's people who try to use the law to deny people rights. Who thinks a company is grooming children because they dare show openly gay people.
@@ingni123456 so what did Shad say or do that has offended you lot exactly? I hear vague accusations but nobody seems to have a quote or really any details...
@@ingni123456 Can you please clarify what asshole means to you? Tell someone the truth or literally being mean to someone because you hate them. One is for the benefit of that person, the other is pure hatred.
One thing that fascinates me is the difference in preservation ideas in Japanese vs other swords. It seems so rare to see a Japanese sword that isn’t fully polished whereas most other swords have a patina that is considered wrong to polish off.
Giving an antique Japanese sword a full polish both works to bring it back to its original look from when it was first made and may help in identifying who might have made it
There's a variety of factors. Obviously most archaeologists don't want to damage something in the process of restoring it. In this case though I also think it's a matter of othering too though. Maybe Japanese sword preservation is based around trying to capture the sword in how it was meant to look, seeing themselves as part of the history, while Western preservation views it as part of an old tradition they are removed from and want to preserve it as they found it instead.
Japanese swords are cared for, which is to say they are maintained as battle ready, and also ready for daily show. In Europe and the US, at least, "old" artifacts are preserved to retain the appearance of age. That goes for furniture as well as swords. Restore a piece of 18th century furniture to a "new" appearance, and you would catch a raft of "oh, no! You've spoiled it!" Happens with tools too. Some of us buy and restore old tools for use rather than display. So a handsaw for instance needs a decent level of mirroring effect on the blade to maintain a straight, vertical cut. But you will find people who think polishing the blade is a "terrible" step. It "destroys" the value. They turn all faint on you if you say that you want to actually use the saw.
I might add that in Japanese sword connoisseurship, it is considered very wrong indeed to polish away the patina acquired on the blade's tang, which is easier to access than on swords with a permanently peened pommel & hilt. Especially if the tang carries a famous smith's signature or inscription. Fakery by spot- or forge-welding a signed tang on to an inferior blade is almost as old as Japanese sword crafting itself..
I saw a video of a Laotian?Cambodian? smith who used a rag soaked with water and he ran it along the edge. Waited a few seconds, then did it again a it further up the blade. Waited a few seconds and then quenched the whole blade.
Whenever a topic on a springy blade is brought up, I often ask myself how far does it need to go before we consider it a springy blade? If you Flex a blade, and it goes back to true is this sufficient? A lot of blades can flex to some degree, but few can turn into a horseshoe shape and come back true. I think most agree that such a blade would be considered springy, but how little flex-to-true-in-degree-of-bend do we accept for the definition? When traditionally sharpening and polishing a Katana for instance, you will flex the blade a lot, but it won't "set" that bend. Even then the degree of flex isn't very high nor does it need to be during this process.
That is exactly the point - from a micro structural point of view, you need a uniform tempered martensite structure to obtain such capabilities and tbh only modern technology brought us this far, since period swords were not uniform to that extent (you will always find places in which the blade is not uniform but softer/harder and that could lead to a failure). And if we look at the literature of sword analyzed in that microscopica way only a handful present such structure, hence why the statement of Ilya I believe is correct, purely from that sample (which as you can immagine is not larger) Eventually all hardened steel can take some elastic deformation (returning to true) and "spring back" to some extent although much of this has to do with cross section and stiffness of the blade (a katana is just thicker and stout, so you will need much more force to obtain the flex you see in this video - the same amount of force that can cause a longsword to take a set for example).
It should really be mentioned what sword Adam Savage is handling in a clip, since its literally the most powerfully cutting sword design there is, the type XVIIIc from the Alexandra library. The XVIIIc absolutely dominates the cutting competition world.
It’s thought that design was created for combat against lightly armored Moslems during the crusades. Thin to cut through clothing rather than armor. Fascinating stuff.
Since the Shad situation seems to be in all of your comments at the moment I would like to say this, While I personally am what people would consider to be politically conservative and don't find MOST of Shad's opinions to be problematic, I respect that you took a stance against ideas you disagree with. You are a great creator, so don't feel disheartened by all the hate and keep up the good work.
have to point out that pattern welding started long before the Roman period, the Celts and Germanic peoples were doing it by then and had been for a fair while
I remember reading about the Spanish conquest of the Americas and when discussing the weapons used by the Conquistadors, the book mentioned that Toledo swordsmiths (regarded as some of the best in Europe) took special pride in the flexibility of their swords, and that one of the signs of a true Toledo blade was supposed to be that it could be bent double and spring back to its normal shape. I think the book was John Hemming's The Conquest of the Incas, but unfortunately I don't know what the primary source was for the claim. If it's accurate, it certainly suggests that at least in the early 16th century blade flexibility was a highly-valued quality that people would pay extra for in the right circumstances.
Toledo was famous across Europe for the quality of their swords. So while bent double is probably a bit of an exaggeration they absolutely would have been made of high quality (but not modern quality) spring steel.
Great vid, not at all what I expected to watch based on the intro. You are absolutely correct in what you've said. Not only were inclusions and steel quality partly responsible for earlier swords not being spring tempered, the economics of sword building was too.....carbon steel cost a lot more than iron, so it was best used purely on edges (like the bits of many axes, iron all over apart from the cutting edge). You get a perfectly usable sword using 90% iron with 10% carbon steel cutting edges.....so for the same amount of carbon steel in one purely carbon steel sword, you'd get 10 swords by using it creatively - and labour from slaves was cheap. Well done Matt, keep up the good work!
I never intefere in any kind if discussion on the internet because it is utterly pointless, I had to look up what all the fuss is about because I don't have social media. But I just wanted to say that you don't owe anyone anything, in terms of explenation or reason behind your post. (Which for me was very clear) People on the internet are not able to discuss, yet they want to engange even though they already put op a wall and are not willing to listen or try to accept someone's opnion. Everything has to be a win or lose situation on the internet, every thing has to be black or white because people will put you there even if you are in the grey area. People will twist things, exagerate or put words in your mouth. The fact is that you were very clear, even if you were not, than you still don't owe any one anything. It's your life, your channel, your decision. It's ridiculous that people demand explenation or whatever, but that is the internet. Love your video's, keep doing what you are doing
There is however a ton more evidence that the medieval bloomery steel blades would break if subjected to the same stresses as modern spring steel is routinely placed under. This is due to the relatively high amount of slag inclusions, and lack of homogeneity that is indicative of the material. Within a bloomery steel blade can be high carbon, low carbon, iron, cast iron, wrought iron (coming from a metallurgical study made of Medieval European swords). The majority of the truly spring steel blades came from the east in India and surrounding areas where crucible steel was made (that's where the steel for the famous Ulfbert swords came from). I believe the That Works crew (Iliya) was referring to European (not Indian, Japanese, Chinese, African, Turkish,.......) Medieval (not Renaissance, or Industrial Revolution) Monosteel (not pattern welded, or multi part construction). So if there is a sword of the medieval period that is spring steel, my first question will be "Where did the material come from", because crucible steel was not made in Europe until the industrial revolution.
I wonder, can chemical analysis shows origin of steel/iron/ore? I guess that ore from every mine/area has distinctive features in form of trace elements. And I think it is safe to assume that nobody imported iron ore from India to Europe, but crucible steel. With large enough sample over whole Middle Ages and through whole Europe, that would give very conclusive answer to your question.
Okay, I’ve shifted my opinion from ‘higher quality swords were likely to be spring steel, lower quality ones may have been less likely to be, and often did not survive’ to pretty much the viewpoint Matt is expressing here, Adam’s little trip started my thought process, but really this video’s wide range of sources helped convince me - although really it was the commentary on he commonplace existence of crossbows which hit home the ‘no, they probably all were’ point. But also, I honestly was not up to date on the existing body of knowledge regarding European weapon smithing techniques, particularly the shift from pattern welding to the more widespread availability of higher quality steel that seems to take place towards the end of the medieval period. And also, my viewpoint did include Matt’s ‘there are degrees of spring’ point, but honestly I don’t have the exposure to accurately judge that, and I made some foolish assumptions. An excellent video! Thank you very much for the coherent thoughts!
I have tempered hammer faces with the pouring water method. It is effective but not as effective as normal tempering methods, at least in my experience.
100％ agree: we are certainly spoiled by the quality and consistency today, even for the equivalent of just one day's work we can get a very good sword, but that doesn't mean they didn't have good swords historically!
The Celts were all the time restraightening their swords during battle according to Roman sources, quite like the Japanese perhaps. It is amazing how you can achieve such high level of excellency on ancient weapons and on advertisement in the same time!
The Iberian Celts were the exception, they flaunted their ability to bend their springy steel swords over the tops of their heads before battle to taunt the then soft Iron swords (perhaps with a steel edge) used by contemporary Roman soldiers. After conquest that technology became Roman. Then they were the ones using Tempered Steel swords when fighting the Gauls. Although I think the simpler iron swords were used by roman soldiers throughout the existence of the Empire. It all depended on what you as a soldier paid for or what was provided. In this we see how Roman historians were perpetuating contemporary propaganda as much as we see people, even experts, do today.
All the time in this case is referring to single source covering a single battle. And in fact in the very time period of the battle of Telamon (the battle in question), we actually see a dip in Cisalpine Gallic sword quality with 50% of finds being made of just iron. In the prior century most of them were differentially hardened or even pattern welded. This was presumably an attempt to mass produce swords during a time of crisis for the Gauls. Honestly an amazing case of archaelogical detective work.
Celtic swords where as a rule of thumb iron, they werent steeled and quench hardend. You see the same tendency in scandinavia up untill close before the “viking age”
Random question: What would you consider to be some of the hallmarks of a master sword maker? Are there any makers today you would consider to be masters?
Hey Scholagladatoria, I know youre probably growing tired of your comment sections being hijacked into different topics, but I wanna say thank you. I didn't know I was supporting someone like that and I know you didnt publicly out them lightly. Keep on keeping on man!
Its interesting: you talk about differential hardening in this video, but not about differential tempering. When I was taught about knife making (all theory, I must admit that I don't have a lot of practice at this), I was told to first anneal, or soften, the entire piece, once shaping was finished, just to remove any internal stress or potential breaking points. Next was to harden the entire item: tang, blade, edge, and back; the whole thing together. The third and final step should be (again, I was told) to selectively soften parts of it, especially the tang and the spine of the blade. The edge-hardening methods that you describe seem to start with the same first step: to soften the whole thing after shaping. But then so to a second step of selectively hardening the edge. I can see how this would be faster than a three-step process (being only two steps). But I wonder if there are any other advantages or disadvantages to the two different general modes of finishing a blade. (For those who are wondering: the general rule, with types of steel that can be hardened or not, is that- slow cooling = soft; fast cooling = hard. So, if you want to soften an entire piece, you heat it to a glowing temperature, and then put it in a partially insulated box overnight to cool very slowly. To harden the entire piece, you heat it up, and then plunge it into water to cool very quickly. To selectively soften, you selectively heat part of the piece, and then put it in the same insulated box. The part that was either not heated at all, or heated least, will not change hardness, the part that does get heated will change, to either get harder if quickly cooled, or softer if slowly cooled. So, for knife-making, with selective heating as the third step, you then put it in the same insulated box to cool slowly, and those parts will get soft.) My other thought is whether the reason that certain German weapons were a "messer" rather than a sword is because of using the type of heat-treating used for knives, rather than any of the methods that you described for swords?
Supposedly the messers were made because of tax reasons. Swords with sword hilts were taxed at a higher rate and messers used a knife style handle with wood peened directly to the tang instead of being held on by a peened pommel because that technically made it a knife as opposed to a sword. But it is an interesting question: were they also tempered in a different way? For that matter, Japanese swords got their curve from the heat treat as the clay caused differential cooling; is it possible that messers also got their curve from heat treatment, or were they forged that way? 🤷🏻♀️. Inquiring minds want to know.
One part of this springy tempering history i have always found particularly amusing is that tons of people (historically and modernly today) think all crucible steel / wootz / damascus steel swords are springy. The phrase "could be wrapped around his waist like a belt and return to true" comes to mind. But in my experience, the *vast* majority of pattern forming crucible steel swords are not tempered to be springy, with the exception of the fine grained "crystalline" wootz of late india, and some "sham" kilic. Exceptions exist, but still. Most crucible steel ive seen is tempered to take a set
Kinda curious that the Kasara had the same edge hardness. I would think is a place where people fight essentially half naked and with shields alot, durability wouldn't be that big of a deal and they would want non spring harder edged swords.
The Burmese dharb, is possibly also edge quenched i know that is the way they do/did it in Thailand. They quench only the edge and with the remaining heat it tempers. Anyone knows what book is showing at around 19 minutes, it looks interesting.
At 17:51, you say how people wouldn’t spring their swords if they were going to stay bent, there are plenty of cases indicating otherwise. For example, unbending blades, which was likely common due to the consistency of steel and heat treatment. It’s common today with fencing and HEMA swords for sure.
A katana is like my old Russian epee blades. If it bends just pull it through under your foot and its good as new. According to my Russian coach the blades were made from the same steel as Soviet spacecraft. Mind you, per coach, "Everything made from same steel".
Well this just makes me wonder how you can tell how hard the edge is on a sword, or how springing it is. Is it just a matter of experience from handling loads of swords?
The hardness can be tested in a variety of ways - filing, sharpening, or with a hardness testing machine. Flex you can pretty much test as I show here, but you shouldn't really do it much with antiques.
@scholagladiatoria Thank you for answering. If you think it would make an interesting video I would love to see more about testing etc. Ha! I wish I could get my hands on an antique, as much as I love my old beaten up katana an antique it most definitely is not! Although to be fair as I am disabled now all I would be able to do is admire it, which seems a waste!
Is that true that certain middle-eastern sabers were so flexible one could bend them in a circle such way that their tip touched their pommel and then they came back to true?
I really hope that you actually watched the ”offending” content from shad and didn’t just take someone’s word. I personally disagree with many of his views, but I can’t see the ”extremist”. What you did shouts extreme. Really wouldn’t hurt to talk to the man.
My decision was based on discovering that material for the first time and watching it myself. I don't want to be associated with that. This is my choice, and I have sent him messages which he has not replied to. Please don't buy into the lies, such as me having anything against Christians (lol...).
@@scholagladiatoria Good to know. Never thought it was about the zombie with holes in his hands. I would however like to know what it was? Edit: Making a video with someone does not mean you share that someone's views or opinions.
Another common way to get a differently hardened blade is to forge or grind it so the cutting edge is thin before you heat it. Having a thin edge can allow you to get only the edge to temperature when it is quenched. This will give it a soft back or center to a blade with hardened edges.
I can’t believe that in all the years you haven’t posted about medieval hardening in such depth. Especially with the availability for punning. Very good video.
@@scholagladiatoriaPLEASE do. I would also be extremely interested in tests for blades of different hardnesses for edge sharpness and retention vs harder replicas (say, 35-40hrc vs the more ubiquitous in modern replicas 50hrc) and even harder differentially hardened katanas, so that we can put these numbers in the context of functionality.
Antique blades may fail when flexed due to decades or centuries of corrosion in a forging fault. Otherwise flexed not past its elasticity it can flex many times before it takes a set 😮
Its intetesting... Somtimes i talk to some people that i dont want this very flexible wobbely dao ssaber thing that moves like paper. They didnt know what i mean but there answer was for sword like you are showed.. They alllways flexible *some wobbely metal noises*😂
Also, and I mean seriously correct me if I'm wrong here, but how could medieval people not have had widespread access to springy swords if we start to see the introduction of fencing, bigger and thinner swords, sideswords, etc etc etc? I thought the whole point about those things existing, like zweihanders, or knights in full plate armor, is that medieval people had better access to quality materials and workmanship needed for those things to even exist at all, let alone be practical in actual conflict.
"Not widespread" doesn't mean completely inaccessible. Ferraris for example aren't widespread at all, but still enough to have a couple thousand produced annually.
It is not uncommon to find, upon metallographic analysis, that some Migration and Viking era swords had soft iron edges and hardened cores. No one knows if this was intentional or due to drunken forge welding.
Thank you so much for making this video. It helped me answer some questions I had about some swords in my collection*. Like many people interested in arms and armor, I seem to have answered the siren call of the tulwar. I would love to see a video on how to date a tulwar. Many of them I see are described as "18th century," but, it seems to me this is often just a guess. Truthfully, I've just going with my own sort of guess, so, a video or a good source of information would be appreciated. *Like the commenter below, I didn't know that some wootz blades were edge hardened and this led me to distrust a very nice tulwar.
First you ask the tulwar to dinner and maybe a movie. Then you offer to take it to war. If that goes well, you get down on one knee and ask for its hand in marriage (after asking its father first and arranging the dowry; Central Asians are pretty traditional you know). I wish you luck in your romantic affairs. 😁
Excellent video, I actually didn't realize (though I probably should've figured) that spring-tempered swords were found outside of late-medieval Europe. I always felt this was an incomplete topic in history UA-cam, and I'm happy to have some gaps filled in.
Now that you have this new Japanese sword (and I see that it is in polish, or close to it), are you going to do the "The Bodyguard" test and drop a light silk ladies scarf on it and see it if cuts it in half lol. I'd love to see that done. Also, great information, all clearly presented and makes sense. Well done good Sir.
Hey Matt, I just wanted to say that I applaud you for handling this situation respectfully. I am Canadian myself, and come from a centrist/conservative province. I hate my conservative government but I am not a fan of the left in my country either as a centrist myself. If Shad STILL makes me uncomfortable with the content he posts on the Knights Watch then there is a clear problem with his content. I wish it never came to this but you did the right thing.
I'm a militant atheist but even I can hardly find a problem with Shad. I've seen a few Knight Watch episodes, but they're rather boring to me. Not offensive, but boring. Shadiversity on the other hand is an awesome channel. I love that he doesn't mix politics/religion into Shadiversity. Heck I wouldn't support him on Patreon if he did! So I don't really see the problem with him having a separate channel where he brings in politics/religious views, it's not bothering me in the slightest, I don't even watch it. Why do you watch it if you don't like the content on that channel? Do you only ever associate with people that have the exact same ideology as yourself? I read Matt's post and thought it was absolutely disgusting, coward SJW behavior. If you've got a problem with a friends views, engage him! Have a discussion. Heck you can make it a discussion video! Don't write a vague accusatory post like that on social media and drop that friend out of the blue to appease some haters... If everyone acts like Matt did, nobody will ever change anyone's mind, and everyone will forever stay in the bubble they grew up in.
I'll ask this question again in case someone who knows missed my question last time: quick question: Does anyone (including Matt) know anything about Wilkinson Sword, Wilkinson swords? Context: I have a sabre that has "wilkinson sword" on the guard (like no regimental markings or royal crest or whatever) and obviously it's bloody difficult to google it. Is it possibly a promotional piece or something? The guard is similar to the 1845 pattern but it is more "filled out" and the blade has no fuller or anything, it just has some areas of decoration. Any guidance would be very appreciated
Have you read Matt's "General Sword Identification" web page? Sorry youtube is weird about links, but you should be able to find it without too much trouble.
I made have made some comments on the current drama but I have looked at some of the content on shads second channel while I dont have a problem with most of what I have seen I could see where someone left of me would have such a problem and it is your perogative to deal with it as you see fit so I apologize for my earlier judgment. Also I appreciate you engaging some of these posts and explaining in detail why you made the decision and for family and friends I can respect that Im 25 and you are a role model to me and I am glad to have learned something from you on this issue and more importantly on the products of your labor through this channel thank you for all you do and keep the context coming.
Could you please name me some examples? I am still in the dark about this. I've seen some of his second channel's videos and they're boring to me, but that's about it...
As someone who unsubbed from Shad after finding out about his second channel, and was glad to see Matt's statement on it I just wanted to say that I really like your comment. Massive respect for being understanding of his decision even though you don't have the same problem with Shad's content.
Hi Matt, could make some video about the traditional "ginunting sword" from the philippines? I think it is very interesting one, it's kinda gives me vibes like a Katana but reversed.
Rockwell hardness is super low on swords compared to knives. The modern demand for high HRC blades is fine....but when your life genuinely depends on your sword, you definitely do not want it snapping - make it bendy please sir!
I imagine these swords are less brittle than Matt's moral character is. Watched him off & on for years now and very disappointed to see him cave to political pressure & accuse Shad of bs without any evidence
Please don't believe the lies. My decision was entirely my own, and based on watching the videos myself (which I had not seen before). I am not the only person who has severed ties as a result, just the most obvious and public one.
@@scholagladiatoria mass canceling of someone just because of unsubstantiated claims doesn't make your case any stronger. Just makes you a sheep following the herd
I did not 'mass cancel'. I made a statement to my club, on my club page, after discovering what I had been accidentally supporting. I do not have the ability to 'mass cancel', I just walked away. I called for no attacks, no crusade. Shad was the one who escalated it to UA-cam and Twitter.
Didn't Shad made a video about how Barbie is terrible because it's a feminist movie? Or said on Twitter that he doesn't want to use people chosen pronouns because he found it offensive because it doesn't align with biology, although pronouns are strictly a social thing? Didn't he also complained that a woman wore pants in a movie? And defended AI art with statements that aren't true? And didn't he colaborare with a channel that makes the exact type of content Geeks and Gamers and Quartering makes about media with over exaggerated reactions, sensationalist titels, dishonesty and finding diversity a personal offense? Look, the thing is, Shad associated with himself with a lot of channels like I exemplified earlier. If it was an one time thing, then it will be fine. But he constantly associated himself with those channels and engaged in the same behavior they were showing. At this point, I understand why some will might want to disassociate with him over his views. If the break-up was over a different silly opinion like "I don't like pizza" or something like that, it would have made Schola looking bad. But that's not what happened. When it comes to what rights should people have based on what groups are they in and what others obligations are, then we talk about the objective truth concluded after years of studies and research. Truth that Shad is dodging, ignoring and trying to use the "it's my opinion" and "why are you so intolerant" excuses. I'll open a bracket and say this: if you decided that different pronouns like they/them are the ones that fits you and then you have a friend that doesn't want to respect that and still call you a he or a she, do you think that will make a confortable environment for that person with pronouns? Wouldn't they prefer just to cut that person out of their lives? If yes, well found out that Shad would have not respected others pronouns. His words. And, by reading the response Shad had for this situation, at no point he felt remorseful for loosing Schola as a friend. Which kinda shows how he secretly thought of him all the time. A friend who is faking isn't a good friend.
@@thepipinviking 100%, the public statement was the worst part of it. If Matt wanted to distance himself from S for his conservative views, he could have dealt with such matters privately. I have no respect for someone who so readily throws a former associate to the wolves and then acts as the righteous one.
I've had some Magic Spoon, it was pretty good. They stepped up the salt to make it taste, and I was surprised. A slightly salty breakfast cereal is really nice. This is coming from a sugar freak.
Really interesting video, although the conservator in me did cringe when you showed the clip from Adam Savage of the curator bending/flexing the sword....
It's just a minor point in this video but something that shows up time and time again when I look up historical stuff is just how common international trade was. I would have never thought it was common for an "uncivilized, outdated" weapon like indian swords to have European manufactured blades.
I've been longing for the day that you'd respond to this, Matt!😃 There is documentation suggesting that many of the famous Medieval and Renaissance sword makers of Toledo, Spain required a sword to return to straight after being bent in a complete horseshoe 🧲 before leaving the shop. Now, when it comes to modern swords, I HAVE SEEN an Albion flexed into a horseshoe before returning to straightness, and it freaks me out because I always think it's going to snap! As for the guy from that channel you're replying to (Ilya?): he's on a literal crusade to stop the recent movement towards taking a more honest look at katanas. He wants to GO BACK to the days when people thought that katanas could slice through unobtainium with ease! That's all.😁
But it's fair to compare hema swords to historical ones? were not hema swords supposed to be more springy for safety reasons? The same I was wondering about rapiers, I think the stiffer in those blades the better for the penetration (not to say they don't have to be flexible)
Ya, there's so many variables! Of course practice swords were different than fighting swords, and even fighting swords between different smiths of same cultures. Throw different cultures into the mix and I don't think it's right to make these kinds of generalizations without qualifying the fact that they are very much generalizations! Was there spring steal in the 1400's, yes. Was it as quality or as common as today, probably not.
Plenty of HEMA swords are stiffer than many historical swords, many require two hands to flex, Regenyei standards and VB Tournament feders come to mind.
Are the Japanise swords not even with carbonized and hardened cutting edge? You cover most of the blade with clay. Then put it all into a box full of charcoal. Heat it for a while. And then quench it. That would give the wavy line - difference in carbon content.
this is why when they compare katanas with longswords in other youtube videos, i'm not particularly convinced, i know for sure that the katana is forged using historical steel, and techneqes, but is the longsword? sure, it looks like an medevel sword, but i bet that they used some modern steel, modern forging techniques, and non historical hardness, an utterly unfair comparison, it's like they think, "europe got crucible steel" and think the steel became an super steel, with super hardness.
Are you sure about historical steel? Where one can get such raw material with such large variability? I know that for some other historical materials (glues, resigns, tar, some oils) and techniques, for large part, even if there are "natural" versions commercially available, they are quite distinct from real historical substances. So it ends with more or less "do it your own from scratch". That sounds very hard to believe in case of iron/steel work, especially because of price. And for all historical artifacts people often forget about survivorship bias: what was preserved is of better quality than average.
@@radivojevasiljevic3145I'm pretty certain you can just use tamahagane as a stand in for European steel since bloomery still was quite big later on. Especially in Styria where they supplied armories in England. Though if you want steel processed from pig iron, then that'll be a lot difficult to aquire since only *one Japanese smith afaik, produces his steel from this method.
@@radivojevasiljevic3145 Japanese steel making is historical (though they use the more recent and less common method, rather than blast furnaces which was the predominant method in Japan).
uuuh that katana is absolutely gorgeous! is it possible that people think about viking era swords when they say they are not springy? still middle ages but earlier?
One thing. When metal is heated in a forge the carbon can migrate through the metal, sorry cant remember the rate off the top of my head. So that means with pattern welded steel the carbon will migrate around and can become fairly uniform through out thr blank. So the inculded low carbon steel could end up as moderate or higher steel and end up being hardedable. But the nickle and other impurities don't migrate so that is were the banding can come from if it is etched.
I remember that episode of Adam Savage and the curator bending that medieval sword and cringing. Not something I would choose to do to a 200 to 300 year museum piece but hey they break it they bought it. 😂
I used to be friends we a radical communist i didn't agree with much of his politics, personally i found some of his views very disturbing and aporhant but i always reasond that he personally didn't hurt anyone his views may have been "hurtful" but it came from a place of genuinely wanting the best for the people of the world and thats what sold staying frinds with him to me, we hugely disagree but he wasn't a evil person just misguided. Im sure i seemed misguided to him to tho. Just a thought i had when i seen the situation.
@@scottmacgregor3444 no, but let's not pretend they weren't amiable to one another. This whole debacle started because Matt and Shad met during his UK trip: if I went out of my way to meet another person when they come to my country, it surely doesn't mean I am indifferent to them and certainly not hostile.
Ok, you were friends with a self proclaimed communist. So fvcking what? Your being friends with a communist has nothing to do with who Matt can or must or should associate with.
Uou can make a more flexible blade with hard edge (like a san mai blade). You forge it like a sandwich, with the harder hi-carbon steel in the middle, sandwiched between softer steel on the outside. So when you sharpen it, that core of hard steel makes the hard edge. I think Matt accidentally described it with the harder steel on the outside.
Yeah Matt, the whole argument about practicing with swords just like the original period weapons makes no sense, even if these originals were stiff. Aren't springy practice swords safer to use because of this give? And would you put a sharp tip on practice swords just for the sake of historical accuracy? I don't think many people would fence if the weapons were sharp.
Hi, always love this kind of video with technical details. You tell us hardness in Rockwell, but there's 3 scales. A, B or C at least. I think it's HRC for the europeen swords, but is it really the same scale for the japanese one?
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Hey Matt! Pleased to be a viewer a of yours. Do you think you will ever make a video on traditional Filipino or malay blades? Was really glad to see the Moro Kris have some face time.
Thank you from the video - I just want to throw some science in it. From a micro structural point of view, you need a uniform tempered martensite structure to obtain extreme flexibility (bending the steel ina U shape withour plastic deformation) and tbh only modern technology brought us this far, since period swords were not uniform to that extent (you will always find places in which the blade is not uniform but softer/harder and that could lead to a failure). And if we look at the literature of sword analyzed in that microscopic way, only a handful present such structure, hence why the statement of Ilya I believe is correct, purely from that sample (which as you can immagine is not larger).
Eventually all hardened steel can take some elastic deformation (returning to true) and "spring back" to some extent although much of this has to do with cross section and stiffness of the blade (a katana is just thicker and stout, so you will need much more force to obtain the flex you see in this video - the same amount of force that can cause a longsword to take a set for example). The degree of flex in historical swords is also related to edge hardnes and period. Uniform tempered martensite period tend to have softer edges compared to layered/piled ones that cannot have a tempered martensite core (too little carbon to be hardened). These blades can still take some degree of force and have elastic deformation, skallagrim recently tested some differential hardening blades and you can see the flex during the cut footage.
The difference lies in the yielding point in which plastic deformation happens and the amount of force required to create such yield.
(As a note, thank you for the work. I know these have been times of criticism towards you. I respect you as a person and I respect your decision. It is not on us to comment on it. Adult people should be able to decide for themselves and you do not need to explain yourself to us. Keep it up).
A point of metallergy: Excluding mostly modern high alloy steels, the temperature of quench to harden doesn't vary for how hard you want the steel, being based on the same crystalline phase transition. The carbon content has some influence on pre-quench heat. The carbon and alloy content, and speed of quench (oil vs. water, thickness of material) impacts how hard the steel gets. Following the quench a blade is usually tempered, heated to a lesser temperature allowing the metal to relax some, which makes the steel softer but tougher. Temperature, time, and alloy all influence how much the temper softens the steel.
Watching Matt madly step on the brakes to avoid saying
"[...] there is a Shitload of evidence"
at 16:44 was a highlight of the video lmao
Always funny to me when people call modern epees unrealistically floppy car antennae. Even ignoring how much stiffer they are compared to historical foils used for smallsword training, I've had jackets torn by an epee that broke at the tip. People have died from them. People vastly overestimate how stiff a sharp bit of metal needs to be to be dangerous.
Yep, when I was at my local saber competition for u18s MANY years ago one of the sabreurs got a sabre in his knee in his last match and had to go to hospital. I don't know how deep it was; not very I suspect because he was at the nationals later that year and utterly thrashed me. But you're right it does happen and it's a while since I've fenced but I remember an apee being quite a lot stiffer than a saber.
I get stabbed into armpit area with epees through my hema jacket and it's unpleasant, actually not much less unpleasant than hema military saber. Thrusts produce so much force even via 300g flexible sport sword
i think part of that is because they actively utilize the flop in a way you probably wouldn’t with a real swords.
And besides small swords and epee du combat are usually pretty stiff, if not fully triangular. of course, its all about degrees.
Any perceived floppiness in modern epees are mainly the result of the barrel and tip used for electric scoring. You can feel the same phenomena when putting rubber tips on HEMA blades. Floppiness isn't the same as blade flex.
It sounds like they're just thinking of the wrong sword. That's a totally valid criticism of olympic sabres (and to a lesser degree olympic foils).
A few additions: It is almost never shown, but Japanese swords are tempered above the fire after quenching (so low temperature tempering). Metals are all crystalline. The phase is different: edge (hamon) is martensite, back is ferrite, in between is a mixture of martensite, bainite, and ferrite.
The back is still hardened and I don’t think it can be hardened if it were ferrite, but yeah the post-quench tempering is rarely mentioned
It's not uncommon for Japanese smiths to have left a very very thin layer of clay only on the very spine of a sword, to give the blade additional spring, prevent attacks cutting as deeply into it during defense, and control the changes in the curvature during quenching.
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 Ferrite only tells you that the cooling rate was slow enough that carbon could diffuse out of it. I forgot to write that there is a bit of pearlite mixed with the ferrite. There are reports of the mune having about 0.2~0.3mass% carbon. At any rate, it seems the hardness of the mune can be around 200 Vickers hardness.
@@RockModeNickfrom all the documentaries I've seen, it seems the whole blade is fully 'clay' covered, albeit the mixtures of clay slips to charcoal soot/embers being different granular sizes and of a differing thicknesses between the thinner edge 'clay' (to achieve a faster cooling when immersed) and the rest of the swords thicker body's and spine's 'clay'.
But the whole blade is covered to prevent oxidiisation during the quench from the liquid used splitting from the initial heat.
@@amacadreoh I see what you mean. What you are witnessing is likely the kobuse method of forging when the high carbon steel is made into a U shape and a piece of medium or low carbon steel put inside of it. That lower carbon piece will end up being the core and spine while the higher carbon steel makes up the edge and the sides.
Hi Matt! Thank you for bringing on this topic. I have dedicated a lot of years reading the literature (mainly works of A.Williams and related, but also other Japanese related papers) and while to some extent I agree with you, I think I am not fully aligned here.
The problem is that this topic is approached in very black and white terms and it is more nuanced than that.
Every swords (or piece of hardened steel, to some extent) will flex and return to true, having an elastic deformation. Be it a katana, a dha, longsword and so on. The crucial issue here is the force applied and how far is the yielding point with such items, and it is not entirely related to the microstructure (the temper), but also to the thickness and cross section of the blade.
Skallagrim tested multiple times differentially hardened blades and you can see the cutting footage of those blades flexing and bending while returning to true. There is also a destructive test on a modern made Katana made by Taro Asano and he did perform a bending test with his blade - it got bent over 45° once and returned to a bend angle of around 10-15°, so they do have a significant stress margin considering that the force applied to bend such thick blade to that extent is much higher to what you will apply to a thinner cross section (which as you said, flex under their own weight).
So it is much more nuanced than "oh katana bends and stay bend, European swords flex" because both swords do bend and flex, but the forces required to achieve deformation are different and so are the yielding point.
Moreover, a flexible structure is not that desirable in a thrusting implement, you want a stiff structure to direct the force - I get what you mean by being desirable, but you want a stiff cross section that allow very little deformation in the first place.
Concerning the medieval term here, I do not agree that the majority of blades were spring tempered. They might have been in the late 16th century, but the data from A.Williams point otherwise (point in case, they might be old, but still). I get what you mean by saying available and not rare, but people would assume that every single blade in medieval Europe (regardless of the high or low period) was spring tempered and we know from metallurgical results that such was not the case especially well before the 16th century.
As for the edge hardness, again that is not entirely related on how easy is to break or chip a edge. Edge geometry play a much more important role here. A brittle edge defines is mode of failure more than the likelihood of failure. Softer edges are much more likely to roll and deform (on a microscopic level this is what you refer as dulling), than harder eges. A hard edge is much more resilient against wear and tear, but it will crack upon failure. In Japanese traditional bladesmithing, this is mitigated with several techniques like having "ashi" in the hamon. Moreover, many kotō blades tend to have a monosteel structure and different phases of the steel. One of them, known as utsuri, do allow the blade to deform much more as it is an added layer of bainite. And the hamon in itself has advantages over the crack propagation.
I can probably go on even further but I will stop here. Just want to re iterate that the majority of the blades were by large not monosteel spring tempered ones, especially for the medievla periods, but that elastic deformation does not happen only with such structure.
As an additional note, yes, spring tempered blades and others do flex.
But the extent to which these weapons bend and return to true (without catastrophic failure!) Is nowhere near comparable to modern alloy based steel!
Thanks for writing all this. I have handled some early medieval swords that were springy, and after publishing this video I was contacted by other people who have the same experience of other early medieval (viking era) swords. Obviously of all the medieval swords I have handled, I was not able to guess the springiness of some/many of them, but quite a few of them certainly were springy, as shown in this video at the Met.
@@scholagladiatoria Thank you for reading all of this!
I think this goes with the fact that hardened steel can bend and return to true to some extent - and I suspect (and hope!) that those medieval swords did show spring properties but were not put under severe force and pressure to see how much flex they could tolerate. You will be able to "eye ball" the springness on thinner blades compared to something thick like Japanese blades, since they will flex under little pressure compared to something stiffer.
In that sense, I'd expect those early swords to fall shortly compared to our modern replicas, for obvious reasons.
Keep it up!
Both Fiore and Monte make mention of bending the enemy's sword to render it useless iirc
@@scholagladiatoriaif you're curious, here's the test that was being spoken about
ua-cam.com/video/rTskoJTvvQc/v-deo.htmlsi=BEQEJvZYkrTSR-Iu
Any idea why this video has more than 50% dislikes? I have been watching this channel for years and never seen such a ratio on your videos. This video is just as good as all your other content
Shad fans upset that Matt no longer wants to collab with him over some hurtful things he's said.
Well done. Wasn't aware that wootz blades were sometimes edge hardened. It's kind of an outlier as well due to its metallurgy, but that's another video. Was glad you mentioned native made Indian swords; I think many people are not aware that the Indo-Persion peoples have a LONG history of steelmaking.
Thank you for all the information, very useful indeed.
nice review!
How much is sigi king's elasticity compared to the actual sword?
Is it more elastic?
Hello, do you know that the best Spanish rapiers, were supposed to bend in a way that let them touch the guard with the point of the blade? Cheers
Greetings from Croatia !!!
Matt Easton I found your channel through Shad (from Shadiversity). I have been following you, supporting & sharing your content since 2015.
I'm a small blacksmith from Croatia, many of your videos have helped me improve my blacksmithing skills, I'm very grateful to you for that.
I wanted to work with you in the near future, but after your attitude towards Shad, I don't know if you would want that. Because I'm a conservative Christian like Shad is.
My question is am I welcomed or not on your channel or should I leave if it's a problem for you, because of my deep convictions. I would appreciate your reply.
I have no problem with Christians. Never said I did :-)
You can be conservative and you can be Christian without being an asshole. You just need to conduct yourself like Jesus himself would towards people. Sadly, Shad can't.
The problem isn't Christians, it's people who try to use the law to deny people rights. Who thinks a company is grooming children because they dare show openly gay people.
@@ingni123456 so what did Shad say or do that has offended you lot exactly? I hear vague accusations but nobody seems to have a quote or really any details...
@@ingni123456 Can you please clarify what asshole means to you?
Tell someone the truth or literally being mean to someone because you hate them.
One is for the benefit of that person, the other is pure hatred.
I have a question for you how much sword basd martial artist are there
One thing that fascinates me is the difference in preservation ideas in Japanese vs other swords. It seems so rare to see a Japanese sword that isn’t fully polished whereas most other swords have a patina that is considered wrong to polish off.
Giving an antique Japanese sword a full polish both works to bring it back to its original look from when it was first made and may help in identifying who might have made it
There's a variety of factors. Obviously most archaeologists don't want to damage something in the process of restoring it.
In this case though I also think it's a matter of othering too though. Maybe Japanese sword preservation is based around trying to capture the sword in how it was meant to look, seeing themselves as part of the history, while Western preservation views it as part of an old tradition they are removed from and want to preserve it as they found it instead.
@@MasoTrumoi Well said
Japanese swords are cared for, which is to say they are maintained as battle ready, and also ready for daily show. In Europe and the US, at least, "old" artifacts are preserved to retain the appearance of age. That goes for furniture as well as swords. Restore a piece of 18th century furniture to a "new" appearance, and you would catch a raft of "oh, no! You've spoiled it!" Happens with tools too. Some of us buy and restore old tools for use rather than display. So a handsaw for instance needs a decent level of mirroring effect on the blade to maintain a straight, vertical cut. But you will find people who think polishing the blade is a "terrible" step. It "destroys" the value. They turn all faint on you if you say that you want to actually use the saw.
I might add that in Japanese sword connoisseurship, it is considered very wrong indeed to polish away the patina acquired on the blade's tang, which is easier to access than on swords with a permanently peened pommel & hilt. Especially if the tang carries a famous smith's signature or inscription. Fakery by spot- or forge-welding a signed tang on to an inferior blade is almost as old as Japanese sword crafting itself..
Magic Spoon tastes excellent, but man does it ever get stuck in my teeth. Just in a really impressive way. No other food has ever done that to me.
I saw a video of a Laotian?Cambodian? smith who used a rag soaked with water and he ran it along the edge. Waited a few seconds, then did it again a it further up the blade. Waited a few seconds and then quenched the whole blade.
Whenever a topic on a springy blade is brought up, I often ask myself how far does it need to go before we consider it a springy blade?
If you Flex a blade, and it goes back to true is this sufficient?
A lot of blades can flex to some degree, but few can turn into a horseshoe shape and come back true. I think most agree that such a blade would be considered springy, but how little flex-to-true-in-degree-of-bend do we accept for the definition?
When traditionally sharpening and polishing a Katana for instance, you will flex the blade a lot, but it won't "set" that bend. Even then the degree of flex isn't very high nor does it need to be during this process.
That is exactly the point - from a micro structural point of view, you need a uniform tempered martensite structure to obtain such capabilities and tbh only modern technology brought us this far, since period swords were not uniform to that extent (you will always find places in which the blade is not uniform but softer/harder and that could lead to a failure). And if we look at the literature of sword analyzed in that microscopica way only a handful present such structure, hence why the statement of Ilya I believe is correct, purely from that sample (which as you can immagine is not larger)
Eventually all hardened steel can take some elastic deformation (returning to true) and "spring back" to some extent although much of this has to do with cross section and stiffness of the blade (a katana is just thicker and stout, so you will need much more force to obtain the flex you see in this video - the same amount of force that can cause a longsword to take a set for example).
Great video! I love this kind of content on your channel!
Do you think survivor bias comes into play with the 14th and 15th century swords at all? Just curious!
Aaahh! A Muromachi era tachi-blade with ōkissaki, mounted in han-dachi koshirae… Yum-yum! 😋😍
It should really be mentioned what sword Adam Savage is handling in a clip, since its literally the most powerfully cutting sword design there is, the type XVIIIc from the Alexandra library. The XVIIIc absolutely dominates the cutting competition world.
It’s thought that design was created for combat against lightly armored Moslems during the crusades. Thin to cut through clothing rather than armor. Fascinating stuff.
Since the Shad situation seems to be in all of your comments at the moment I would like to say this, While I personally am what people would consider to be politically conservative and don't find MOST of Shad's opinions to be problematic, I respect that you took a stance against ideas you disagree with. You are a great creator, so don't feel disheartened by all the hate and keep up the good work.
have to point out that pattern welding started long before the Roman period, the Celts and Germanic peoples were doing it by then and had been for a fair while
I remember reading about the Spanish conquest of the Americas and when discussing the weapons used by the Conquistadors, the book mentioned that Toledo swordsmiths (regarded as some of the best in Europe) took special pride in the flexibility of their swords, and that one of the signs of a true Toledo blade was supposed to be that it could be bent double and spring back to its normal shape. I think the book was John Hemming's The Conquest of the Incas, but unfortunately I don't know what the primary source was for the claim. If it's accurate, it certainly suggests that at least in the early 16th century blade flexibility was a highly-valued quality that people would pay extra for in the right circumstances.
Toledo was famous across Europe for the quality of their swords. So while bent double is probably a bit of an exaggeration they absolutely would have been made of high quality (but not modern quality) spring steel.
@@adambielen8996Toledo steel is confusing to me. I've only found mentions that it was simply a sword that had an iron core with steel edges.
Great vid, not at all what I expected to watch based on the intro.
You are absolutely correct in what you've said.
Not only were inclusions and steel quality partly responsible for earlier swords not being spring tempered, the economics of sword building was too.....carbon steel cost a lot more than iron, so it was best used purely on edges (like the bits of many axes, iron all over apart from the cutting edge).
You get a perfectly usable sword using 90% iron with 10% carbon steel cutting edges.....so for the same amount of carbon steel in one purely carbon steel sword, you'd get 10 swords by using it creatively - and labour from slaves was cheap.
Well done Matt, keep up the good work!
In Laksdøla Saga, at Kjartan's last fight, we learn that his sword is soft, so that he often has to straighten it under his foot.
I never intefere in any kind if discussion on the internet because it is utterly pointless, I had to look up what all the fuss is about because I don't have social media. But I just wanted to say that you don't owe anyone anything, in terms of explenation or reason behind your post. (Which for me was very clear) People on the internet are not able to discuss, yet they want to engange even though they already put op a wall and are not willing to listen or try to accept someone's opnion. Everything has to be a win or lose situation on the internet, every thing has to be black or white because people will put you there even if you are in the grey area. People will twist things, exagerate or put words in your mouth.
The fact is that you were very clear, even if you were not, than you still don't owe any one anything. It's your life, your channel, your decision. It's ridiculous that people demand explenation or whatever, but that is the internet. Love your video's, keep doing what you are doing
Thank you.
I have a rapier from the 16. century and the blade was forged in Solingen and send to Spain. The blade is strong but flexible.
There is however a ton more evidence that the medieval bloomery steel blades would break if subjected to the same stresses as modern spring steel is routinely placed under. This is due to the relatively high amount of slag inclusions, and lack of homogeneity that is indicative of the material. Within a bloomery steel blade can be high carbon, low carbon, iron, cast iron, wrought iron (coming from a metallurgical study made of Medieval European swords).
The majority of the truly spring steel blades came from the east in India and surrounding areas where crucible steel was made (that's where the steel for the famous Ulfbert swords came from).
I believe the That Works crew (Iliya) was referring to European (not Indian, Japanese, Chinese, African, Turkish,.......) Medieval (not Renaissance, or Industrial Revolution) Monosteel (not pattern welded, or multi part construction).
So if there is a sword of the medieval period that is spring steel, my first question will be "Where did the material come from", because crucible steel was not made in Europe until the industrial revolution.
I wonder, can chemical analysis shows origin of steel/iron/ore? I guess that ore from every mine/area has distinctive features in form of trace elements. And I think it is safe to assume that nobody imported iron ore from India to Europe, but crucible steel. With large enough sample over whole Middle Ages and through whole Europe, that would give very conclusive answer to your question.
Rapier survival is a testament to not only the craftsmanship but the steels used.
Okay, I’ve shifted my opinion from ‘higher quality swords were likely to be spring steel, lower quality ones may have been less likely to be, and often did not survive’ to pretty much the viewpoint Matt is expressing here, Adam’s little trip started my thought process, but really this video’s wide range of sources helped convince me - although really it was the commentary on he commonplace existence of crossbows which hit home the ‘no, they probably all were’ point.
But also, I honestly was not up to date on the existing body of knowledge regarding European weapon smithing techniques, particularly the shift from pattern welding to the more widespread availability of higher quality steel that seems to take place towards the end of the medieval period.
And also, my viewpoint did include Matt’s ‘there are degrees of spring’ point, but honestly I don’t have the exposure to accurately judge that, and I made some foolish assumptions.
An excellent video! Thank you very much for the coherent thoughts!
I have tempered hammer faces with the pouring water method. It is effective but not as effective as normal tempering methods, at least in my experience.
100％ agree: we are certainly spoiled by the quality and consistency today, even for the equivalent of just one day's work we can get a very good sword, but that doesn't mean they didn't have good swords historically!
The Celts were all the time restraightening their swords during battle according to Roman sources, quite like the Japanese perhaps. It is amazing how you can achieve such high level of excellency on ancient weapons and on advertisement in the same time!
The Iberian Celts were the exception, they flaunted their ability to bend their springy steel swords over the tops of their heads before battle to taunt the then soft Iron swords (perhaps with a steel edge) used by contemporary Roman soldiers. After conquest that technology became Roman. Then they were the ones using Tempered Steel swords when fighting the Gauls. Although I think the simpler iron swords were used by roman soldiers throughout the existence of the Empire. It all depended on what you as a soldier paid for or what was provided. In this we see how Roman historians were perpetuating contemporary propaganda as much as we see people, even experts, do today.
All the time in this case is referring to single source covering a single battle. And in fact in the very time period of the battle of Telamon (the battle in question), we actually see a dip in Cisalpine Gallic sword quality with 50% of finds being made of just iron. In the prior century most of them were differentially hardened or even pattern welded.
This was presumably an attempt to mass produce swords during a time of crisis for the Gauls.
Honestly an amazing case of archaelogical detective work.
Celtic swords where as a rule of thumb iron, they werent steeled and quench hardend. You see the same tendency in scandinavia up untill close before the “viking age”
Random question: What would you consider to be some of the hallmarks of a master sword maker? Are there any makers today you would consider to be masters?
Hey Scholagladatoria, I know youre probably growing tired of your comment sections being hijacked into different topics, but I wanna say thank you. I didn't know I was supporting someone like that and I know you didnt publicly out them lightly. Keep on keeping on man!
Is that an Albion Ringeck? That's my dream sword!
It is!
Regenyei Trnava medium is very similar and is pretty good too, mine is like 6 years old and still in pretty good shape
25 - 45 rockwell is by definition not spring steel hardened. You can not sell currently a HEMA swird line which is softer than 50+ Rockwell.
Its interesting: you talk about differential hardening in this video, but not about differential tempering. When I was taught about knife making (all theory, I must admit that I don't have a lot of practice at this), I was told to first anneal, or soften, the entire piece, once shaping was finished, just to remove any internal stress or potential breaking points. Next was to harden the entire item: tang, blade, edge, and back; the whole thing together. The third and final step should be (again, I was told) to selectively soften parts of it, especially the tang and the spine of the blade.
The edge-hardening methods that you describe seem to start with the same first step: to soften the whole thing after shaping. But then so to a second step of selectively hardening the edge. I can see how this would be faster than a three-step process (being only two steps). But I wonder if there are any other advantages or disadvantages to the two different general modes of finishing a blade.
(For those who are wondering: the general rule, with types of steel that can be hardened or not, is that- slow cooling = soft; fast cooling = hard. So, if you want to soften an entire piece, you heat it to a glowing temperature, and then put it in a partially insulated box overnight to cool very slowly. To harden the entire piece, you heat it up, and then plunge it into water to cool very quickly. To selectively soften, you selectively heat part of the piece, and then put it in the same insulated box. The part that was either not heated at all, or heated least, will not change hardness, the part that does get heated will change, to either get harder if quickly cooled, or softer if slowly cooled. So, for knife-making, with selective heating as the third step, you then put it in the same insulated box to cool slowly, and those parts will get soft.)
My other thought is whether the reason that certain German weapons were a "messer" rather than a sword is because of using the type of heat-treating used for knives, rather than any of the methods that you described for swords?
Supposedly the messers were made because of tax reasons. Swords with sword hilts were taxed at a higher rate and messers used a knife style handle with wood peened directly to the tang instead of being held on by a peened pommel because that technically made it a knife as opposed to a sword.
But it is an interesting question: were they also tempered in a different way? For that matter, Japanese swords got their curve from the heat treat as the clay caused differential cooling; is it possible that messers also got their curve from heat treatment, or were they forged that way? 🤷🏻♀️. Inquiring minds want to know.
One part of this springy tempering history i have always found particularly amusing is that tons of people (historically and modernly today) think all crucible steel / wootz / damascus steel swords are springy.
The phrase "could be wrapped around his waist like a belt and return to true" comes to mind.
But in my experience, the *vast* majority of pattern forming crucible steel swords are not tempered to be springy, with the exception of the fine grained "crystalline" wootz of late india, and some "sham" kilic.
Exceptions exist, but still. Most crucible steel ive seen is tempered to take a set
Kinda curious that the Kasara had the same edge hardness. I would think is a place where people fight essentially half naked and with shields alot, durability wouldn't be that big of a deal and they would want non spring harder edged swords.
The Burmese dharb, is possibly also edge quenched i know that is the way they do/did it in Thailand. They quench only the edge and with the remaining heat it tempers.
Anyone knows what book is showing at around 19 minutes, it looks interesting.
At 17:51, you say how people wouldn’t spring their swords if they were going to stay bent, there are plenty of cases indicating otherwise.
For example, unbending blades, which was likely common due to the consistency of steel and heat treatment. It’s common today with fencing and HEMA swords for sure.
A katana is like my old Russian epee blades. If it bends just pull it through under your foot and its good as new. According to my Russian coach the blades were made from the same steel as Soviet spacecraft. Mind you, per coach, "Everything made from same steel".
were old steel crossbow bows modified in to sword or machete blades? since they are flexible
It's called a prod, if you're looking for a specific word to do more research.
If they are reforged it will affect hardening and tempering; so they would probably re-do it.
@@RockModeNickProd is wrong, it’s a Victorian misreading of “rod” in mediaeval texts. The correct words are rod, lath or bow.
Your Katana is so beautiful. Could you share some information like the origin, dimension, weight or close up picture? I felt in love with it.
Well this just makes me wonder how you can tell how hard the edge is on a sword, or how springing it is. Is it just a matter of experience from handling loads of swords?
The hardness can be tested in a variety of ways - filing, sharpening, or with a hardness testing machine. Flex you can pretty much test as I show here, but you shouldn't really do it much with antiques.
@scholagladiatoria Thank you for answering. If you think it would make an interesting video I would love to see more about testing etc.
Ha! I wish I could get my hands on an antique, as much as I love my old beaten up katana an antique it most definitely is not! Although to be fair as I am disabled now all I would be able to do is admire it, which seems a waste!
I wouldn't have thought flexibility is better for thrusting than hardness
Is that true that certain middle-eastern sabers were so flexible one could bend them in a circle such way that their tip touched their pommel and then they came back to true?
I hope I can spring back to straight after 400 years.
I really hope that you actually watched the ”offending” content from shad and didn’t just take someone’s word. I personally disagree with many of his views, but I can’t see the ”extremist”. What you did shouts extreme. Really wouldn’t hurt to talk to the man.
My decision was based on discovering that material for the first time and watching it myself. I don't want to be associated with that. This is my choice, and I have sent him messages which he has not replied to. Please don't buy into the lies, such as me having anything against Christians (lol...).
@@scholagladiatoria Good to know. Never thought it was about the zombie with holes in his hands. I would however like to know what it was?
Edit: Making a video with someone does not mean you share that someone's views or opinions.
All together now: How hard is it? 😆
...that depends on context.😊
On a Matt Easton video? There can be only one answer: *VERY*
Another common way to get a differently hardened blade is to forge or grind it so the cutting edge is thin before you heat it. Having a thin edge can allow you to get only the edge to temperature when it is quenched. This will give it a soft back or center to a blade with hardened edges.
I can’t believe that in all the years you haven’t posted about medieval hardening in such depth. Especially with the availability for punning. Very good video.
This is just a light touch - I really need to do a proper in depth video on the subject with an expert (which I am definitely not!).
@@scholagladiatoria metallurgy is kinda complex when it comes to historic alloys.
@@scholagladiatoriaPLEASE do. I would also be extremely interested in tests for blades of different hardnesses for edge sharpness and retention vs harder replicas (say, 35-40hrc vs the more ubiquitous in modern replicas 50hrc) and even harder differentially hardened katanas, so that we can put these numbers in the context of functionality.
Never thought a cereal company would sponsor the study of martial arts
Antique blades may fail when flexed due to decades or centuries of corrosion in a forging fault. Otherwise flexed not past its elasticity it can flex many times before it takes a set 😮
How did the federschwert (feather sword) get it's name?
😳😳😳😳😯😯😯😮😮😮 That katana!!! 😯😯😯 I am the last person to say he's a katana guy, but holy sh*t that's a beautiful blade!
Its intetesting... Somtimes i talk to some people that i dont want this very flexible wobbely dao ssaber thing that moves like paper. They didnt know what i mean but there answer was for sword like you are showed.. They alllways flexible *some wobbely metal noises*😂
Also, and I mean seriously correct me if I'm wrong here, but how could medieval people not have had widespread access to springy swords if we start to see the introduction of fencing, bigger and thinner swords, sideswords, etc etc etc?
I thought the whole point about those things existing, like zweihanders, or knights in full plate armor, is that medieval people had better access to quality materials and workmanship needed for those things to even exist at all, let alone be practical in actual conflict.
"Not widespread" doesn't mean completely inaccessible. Ferraris for example aren't widespread at all, but still enough to have a couple thousand produced annually.
It is not uncommon to find, upon metallographic analysis, that some Migration and Viking era swords had soft iron edges and hardened cores. No one knows if this was intentional or due to drunken forge welding.
Intentional. Plenty of medieval swords even later on still a "iron core with steel edges" construction.
@@jonajo9757I'm pretty sure the comment you replied to meant to convey the exact opposite...
Thank you so much for making this video. It helped me answer some questions I had about some swords in my collection*. Like many people interested in arms and armor, I seem to have answered the siren call of the tulwar. I would love to see a video on how to date a tulwar. Many of them I see are described as "18th century," but, it seems to me this is often just a guess. Truthfully, I've just going with my own sort of guess, so, a video or a good source of information would be appreciated.
*Like the commenter below, I didn't know that some wootz blades were edge hardened and this led me to distrust a very nice tulwar.
First you ask the tulwar to dinner and maybe a movie. Then you offer to take it to war. If that goes well, you get down on one knee and ask for its hand in marriage (after asking its father first and arranging the dowry; Central Asians are pretty traditional you know). I wish you luck in your romantic affairs. 😁
I think the younger guys had stiffer swords and the older guys tended to have more flexible swords. Its a rule of thumb. 😀
The young guys swords didn't stay stiff quite long enough to satisfy their fencing partner, unfortunately.
Not sure about swords but, from experience at work, it's certainly true with golf clubs! 😉
And yet, the satisfaction has always been perfected through the dexterity of the user, not the length, stiffness or width of the sword😏
Excellent video, I actually didn't realize (though I probably should've figured) that spring-tempered swords were found outside of late-medieval Europe. I always felt this was an incomplete topic in history UA-cam, and I'm happy to have some gaps filled in.
Spring tempering is a pretty simple process as far as I know.
Now that you have this new Japanese sword (and I see that it is in polish, or close to it), are you going to do the "The Bodyguard" test and drop a light silk ladies scarf on it and see it if cuts it in half lol. I'd love to see that done. Also, great information, all clearly presented and makes sense. Well done good Sir.
Hey Matt, I just wanted to say that I applaud you for handling this situation respectfully. I am Canadian myself, and come from a centrist/conservative province. I hate my conservative government but I am not a fan of the left in my country either as a centrist myself. If Shad STILL makes me uncomfortable with the content he posts on the Knights Watch then there is a clear problem with his content. I wish it never came to this but you did the right thing.
I'm a militant atheist but even I can hardly find a problem with Shad. I've seen a few Knight Watch episodes, but they're rather boring to me. Not offensive, but boring. Shadiversity on the other hand is an awesome channel. I love that he doesn't mix politics/religion into Shadiversity. Heck I wouldn't support him on Patreon if he did! So I don't really see the problem with him having a separate channel where he brings in politics/religious views, it's not bothering me in the slightest, I don't even watch it. Why do you watch it if you don't like the content on that channel? Do you only ever associate with people that have the exact same ideology as yourself?
I read Matt's post and thought it was absolutely disgusting, coward SJW behavior. If you've got a problem with a friends views, engage him! Have a discussion. Heck you can make it a discussion video! Don't write a vague accusatory post like that on social media and drop that friend out of the blue to appease some haters... If everyone acts like Matt did, nobody will ever change anyone's mind, and everyone will forever stay in the bubble they grew up in.
I'll ask this question again in case someone who knows missed my question last time:
quick question: Does anyone (including Matt) know anything about Wilkinson Sword, Wilkinson swords?
Context: I have a sabre that has "wilkinson sword" on the guard (like no regimental markings or royal crest or whatever) and obviously it's bloody difficult to google it. Is it possibly a promotional piece or something?
The guard is similar to the 1845 pattern but it is more "filled out" and the blade has no fuller or anything, it just has some areas of decoration.
Any guidance would be very appreciated
Matt has already talked about Wilkinson production pattern sabers in prior videos. They made both issue sabers for deployment use and parade sabers.
Have you read Matt's "General Sword Identification" web page? Sorry youtube is weird about links, but you should be able to find it without too much trouble.
Great video. focusing on content like this is the way to go. Cheers!
I made have made some comments on the current drama but I have looked at some of the content on shads second channel while I dont have a problem with most of what I have seen I could see where someone left of me would have such a problem and it is your perogative to deal with it as you see fit so I apologize for my earlier judgment. Also I appreciate you engaging some of these posts and explaining in detail why you made the decision and for family and friends I can respect that Im 25 and you are a role model to me and I am glad to have learned something from you on this issue and more importantly on the products of your labor through this channel thank you for all you do and keep the context coming.
Could you please name me some examples? I am still in the dark about this. I've seen some of his second channel's videos and they're boring to me, but that's about it...
As someone who unsubbed from Shad after finding out about his second channel, and was glad to see Matt's statement on it I just wanted to say that I really like your comment. Massive respect for being understanding of his decision even though you don't have the same problem with Shad's content.
Hi Matt, could make some video about the traditional "ginunting sword" from the philippines? I think it is very interesting one, it's kinda gives me vibes like a Katana but reversed.
Sry for talking of topic, but I want to thank you, Shads responce to you made me rethink my subscribtion to him.
Rockwell hardness is super low on swords compared to knives.
The modern demand for high HRC blades is fine....but when your life genuinely depends on your sword, you definitely do not want it snapping - make it bendy please sir!
I imagine these swords are less brittle than Matt's moral character is. Watched him off & on for years now and very disappointed to see him cave to political pressure & accuse Shad of bs without any evidence
Please don't believe the lies. My decision was entirely my own, and based on watching the videos myself (which I had not seen before). I am not the only person who has severed ties as a result, just the most obvious and public one.
@@scholagladiatoria mass canceling of someone just because of unsubstantiated claims doesn't make your case any stronger. Just makes you a sheep following the herd
I did not 'mass cancel'. I made a statement to my club, on my club page, after discovering what I had been accidentally supporting. I do not have the ability to 'mass cancel', I just walked away. I called for no attacks, no crusade. Shad was the one who escalated it to UA-cam and Twitter.
Didn't Shad made a video about how Barbie is terrible because it's a feminist movie? Or said on Twitter that he doesn't want to use people chosen pronouns because he found it offensive because it doesn't align with biology, although pronouns are strictly a social thing? Didn't he also complained that a woman wore pants in a movie? And defended AI art with statements that aren't true? And didn't he colaborare with a channel that makes the exact type of content Geeks and Gamers and Quartering makes about media with over exaggerated reactions, sensationalist titels, dishonesty and finding diversity a personal offense?
Look, the thing is, Shad associated with himself with a lot of channels like I exemplified earlier. If it was an one time thing, then it will be fine. But he constantly associated himself with those channels and engaged in the same behavior they were showing. At this point, I understand why some will might want to disassociate with him over his views.
If the break-up was over a different silly opinion like "I don't like pizza" or something like that, it would have made Schola looking bad. But that's not what happened. When it comes to what rights should people have based on what groups are they in and what others obligations are, then we talk about the objective truth concluded after years of studies and research. Truth that Shad is dodging, ignoring and trying to use the "it's my opinion" and "why are you so intolerant" excuses. I'll open a bracket and say this: if you decided that different pronouns like they/them are the ones that fits you and then you have a friend that doesn't want to respect that and still call you a he or a she, do you think that will make a confortable environment for that person with pronouns? Wouldn't they prefer just to cut that person out of their lives? If yes, well found out that Shad would have not respected others pronouns. His words.
And, by reading the response Shad had for this situation, at no point he felt remorseful for loosing Schola as a friend. Which kinda shows how he secretly thought of him all the time. A friend who is faking isn't a good friend.
@@thepipinviking 100%, the public statement was the worst part of it. If Matt wanted to distance himself from S for his conservative views, he could have dealt with such matters privately. I have no respect for someone who so readily throws a former associate to the wolves and then acts as the righteous one.
I've had some Magic Spoon, it was pretty good. They stepped up the salt to make it taste, and I was surprised. A slightly salty breakfast cereal is really nice. This is coming from a sugar freak.
Really interesting video, although the conservator in me did cringe when you showed the clip from Adam Savage of the curator bending/flexing
the sword....
It's just a minor point in this video but something that shows up time and time again when I look up historical stuff is just how common international trade was. I would have never thought it was common for an "uncivilized, outdated" weapon like indian swords to have European manufactured blades.
I've been longing for the day that you'd respond to this, Matt!😃 There is documentation suggesting that many of the famous Medieval and Renaissance sword makers of Toledo, Spain required a sword to return to straight after being bent in a complete horseshoe 🧲 before leaving the shop. Now, when it comes to modern swords, I HAVE SEEN an Albion flexed into a horseshoe before returning to straightness, and it freaks me out because I always think it's going to snap!
As for the guy from that channel you're replying to (Ilya?): he's on a literal crusade to stop the recent movement towards taking a more honest look at katanas. He wants to GO BACK to the days when people thought that katanas could slice through unobtainium with ease! That's all.😁
Japanese edge of 60 R is comparable to modern tool steels. Even stoning the edge would be time consuming, a file won’t touch it
Yay, Lucy is back!
When will we see more of her - and her awesome khukuri-collection?! ☺️
But it's fair to compare hema swords to historical ones? were not hema swords supposed to be more springy for safety reasons?
The same I was wondering about rapiers, I think the stiffer in those blades the better for the penetration (not to say they don't have to be flexible)
Ya, there's so many variables! Of course practice swords were different than fighting swords, and even fighting swords between different smiths of same cultures. Throw different cultures into the mix and I don't think it's right to make these kinds of generalizations without qualifying the fact that they are very much generalizations! Was there spring steal in the 1400's, yes. Was it as quality or as common as today, probably not.
Plenty of HEMA swords are stiffer than many historical swords, many require two hands to flex, Regenyei standards and VB Tournament feders come to mind.
Are the Japanise swords not even with carbonized and hardened cutting edge? You cover most of the blade with clay. Then put it all into a box full of charcoal. Heat it for a while. And then quench it. That would give the wavy line - difference in carbon content.
That’s a difference in the crystalline structure, martensite and pearlite, not a difference in carbon content
I'm sorry you're getting all this hate but even if I'm just one person, you have my full support!
Thank you
I do look forward to that katana getting its own video!
this is why when they compare katanas with longswords in other youtube videos, i'm not particularly convinced, i know for sure that the katana is forged using historical steel, and techneqes, but is the longsword? sure, it looks like an medevel sword, but i bet that they used some modern steel, modern forging techniques, and non historical hardness, an utterly unfair comparison, it's like they think, "europe got crucible steel" and think the steel became an super steel, with super hardness.
Are you sure about historical steel? Where one can get such raw material with such large variability? I know that for some other historical materials (glues, resigns, tar, some oils) and techniques, for large part, even if there are "natural" versions commercially available, they are quite distinct from real historical substances. So it ends with more or less "do it your own from scratch". That sounds very hard to believe in case of iron/steel work, especially because of price.
And for all historical artifacts people often forget about survivorship bias: what was preserved is of better quality than average.
@@radivojevasiljevic3145I'm pretty certain you can just use tamahagane as a stand in for European steel since bloomery still was quite big later on. Especially in Styria where they supplied armories in England.
Though if you want steel processed from pig iron, then that'll be a lot difficult to aquire since only *one Japanese smith afaik, produces his steel from this method.
@@radivojevasiljevic3145 Japanese steel making is historical (though they use the more recent and less common method, rather than blast furnaces which was the predominant method in Japan).
uuuh that katana is absolutely gorgeous!
is it possible that people think about viking era swords when they say they are not springy? still middle ages but earlier?
One thing. When metal is heated in a forge the carbon can migrate through the metal, sorry cant remember the rate off the top of my head. So that means with pattern welded steel the carbon will migrate around and can become fairly uniform through out thr blank. So the inculded low carbon steel could end up as moderate or higher steel and end up being hardedable.
But the nickle and other impurities don't migrate so that is were the banding can come from if it is etched.
You produce more quality content than I can watch. Not complaining tho, that say a lot about how passionnate you are.
I remember that episode of Adam Savage and the curator bending that medieval sword and cringing. Not something I would choose to do to a 200 to 300 year museum piece but hey they break it they bought it. 😂
I used to be friends we a radical communist i didn't agree with much of his politics, personally i found some of his views very disturbing and aporhant but i always reasond that he personally didn't hurt anyone his views may have been "hurtful" but it came from a place of genuinely wanting the best for the people of the world and thats what sold staying frinds with him to me, we hugely disagree but he wasn't a evil person just misguided.
Im sure i seemed misguided to him to tho.
Just a thought i had when i seen the situation.
Does being in the same YT sphere make them friends?
@@scottmacgregor3444 no, but let's not pretend they weren't amiable to one another. This whole debacle started because Matt and Shad met during his UK trip: if I went out of my way to meet another person when they come to my country, it surely doesn't mean I am indifferent to them and certainly not hostile.
Ok, you were friends with a self proclaimed communist. So fvcking what? Your being friends with a communist has nothing to do with who Matt can or must or should associate with.
This was pretty hard to miss..
10:09 *starts to demonstrate the flex on stabbing of the blade*
*rethinks*
the “springiness” of a sword is interesting to me.
Uou can make a more flexible blade with hard edge (like a san mai blade). You forge it like a sandwich, with the harder hi-carbon steel in the middle, sandwiched between softer steel on the outside. So when you sharpen it, that core of hard steel makes the hard edge. I think Matt accidentally described it with the harder steel on the outside.
Yeah Matt, the whole argument about practicing with swords just like the original period weapons makes no sense, even if these originals were stiff. Aren't springy practice swords safer to use because of this give? And would you put a sharp tip on practice swords just for the sake of historical accuracy? I don't think many people would fence if the weapons were sharp.
This was really interesting thanks for sharing this.
Excellent video, Matt!
Context.
I’ve had radial bent British Victorian blades 😮much harder to rectify than a 90* bend.
Hi, always love this kind of video with technical details.
You tell us hardness in Rockwell, but there's 3 scales. A, B or C at least.
I think it's HRC for the europeen swords, but is it really the same scale for the japanese one?