Is Religion Declining?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Patreon: www.patreon.com/religionforbreakfast
Twitter: @andrewmarkhenry
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Blog: www.religionforbreakfast.com
Music by: Kevin MacLeod
Bibliography:
UK Religiosity: www.huffingtonp...
Atheism Study: www.wingia.com/...
Millenials and Atheism: religion.blogs....
Pew Research World Religion Study: www.npr.org/blo...
Religious Unaffiliation and Belief in God: www.pewforum.or...
Smith, James K.A. "How [Not] to be Secular."
Its interesting how this seems a very localized debate, here in Brasil the "secularization theory" do not meke sense even in a common-sense perspective with the meteoric rise of evangelical churches (in são paulo, where i live, there are places where there are more than one per street). Religion isn't giong anywhere, is just that the way people do reliogions is changing
O certo é "doesn't make sense".
I studied theology. And after seeing the horrors that Christianity caused. I stopped believing
same
Islam fixes all
@@GadanferF-k off. The whole act of trying to prop up something even worse when something bad is putting down is pathetic, no Islam is not better then Christianity or Judaism it, it the worst of the three out of already bad bunch
@@Gadanfer you jest surely
One day I was just like, “this whole thing is kind of silly.” And then I just stopped caring at all.
Tell us more
@@pepperpoop7729 I started to believe in the big chungus
@@JiubTheSex based
Same
The statistics can't tell you the religiosity of the people they are counting but I would argue that they can't tell you the" religion" of the people either.
Take Indonesia which is often described as "the most populous Muslim-majority country." Being "Muslim" in that country doesn't mean the same thing as it means in the United States.
According to anthropologists: " Muslims attend Hindu rituals and consider Hindu temples as sacred places. Self-declared Hindus include Muslim saints and ancestor-cult references in their rituals." There are also people who belong to "...the mystical Javanist sect Sangkan Paran..." but are officially listed as Muslims. (I'm quoting Pascal Boyer's _Religion Explained_ here)
It's not as straightforward an accounting as you might think. People don't always classify themselves in neat little categories and can be many things at once. There are plenty of people who are nominally Christian in Africa and Latin American but who have religious practices that are radically different from what you'd find in churches in the United States and Western Europe.
I totally agree that our tidy modern categories are flawed since religions are incredibly syncretistic. Moreover, these statistics aren't totally helpful since they rely on self identification. As you say, people can identify themselves as "Christian" or "Muslim," but they actually practice local/indigenous rituals that aren't necessarily (or stereotypically) "Christian" or "Muslim." The main thrust of my argument is to destabilize the "secularization theory" that religion is going to disappear. Even working with our less-than-perfect categories and statistics, I think the secularization theory can be easily disproved.
ReligionForBreakfast I happen to think that _because_ we have less-than-perfect categories and statistics that the secularization theory can be easily disproved.
The idea that the Western World is becoming more secular and that this is an irreversible trend, is based on statistics that give us an incomplete picture.
And the fact is, we understand very little about what religion is and how it works. I'll give you an example. In the US, right after the Civil War there was a big upswing in seances, spiritualism involved with talking to the dead and the such. Makes sense, right? All of those widows and orphans because of the war.
Except something similar was happening in Britain and they were not in the Civil War.
In Europe after WWII there were a lot of widows and orphans but what we see is a huge decline in anything having to do with conventional and unconventional religion. No upsurge in seances.
In the United States we saw no upsurge of spiritualists after WWII but a lot of the language about "In God We Trust" on our money and "So help me God" in our pledge of allegiance comes from that time. The consensus is that this is a response to the Soviet Union (which was thirty years old by the) and not to the huge loss of human life.
Another strange thing about the American example is that we started putting God in our official language just when we were experiencing the biggest economic boom of our history which goes contrary to the idea that religion is an opiate for the masses.
I think it was on a religion for breakfast video where I learned a lot of Vodou practitioners think of themselves as good Catholics.
dude how do you not have more subscribers?
Working on it! We passed 1000 three weeks ago. Religious Studies is a rather niche topic though...
I will explain it to you. If no people subscribe, he does not have more subscribers.It took me a while to figure it out, but i think that must be the reason ;))
maybe he can pray about it?
@@ReligionForBreakfast lol video says trying to reach 100 subs. This comment says you just hit 1k. I just found you this week. I would have subbed years ago if I had known about it. Great channel!
Things take time. At this point in time, he has 124K subscribers, a significant amount.
this video is three years old, and perhaps the facts may be out of date, but it is incredibly refreshing
now 6 and soon 21
No, what he is saying is still true, religion is growing
@@tnl-warrior3218 the growth in unaffiliated and atheists is outpacing growth in relgion. People trun to religion in difficult times. Prosperity may bring its collapse.
@@phenylalanine1042 yet much of the world is not living in prosperity, it is only declining in the developed world like America and Europe
Where's your name from?
I've just recently found you, but I've subbed and shared your channel. I like the very dry academic presentation. I don't know what side you lean, and I shouldn't. You present facts, good and bad. Great channel.
I know this is an old video, but I'd just backed up to the beginning of your post and will work my way through them. But I've watched enough to know I like your channel, and had to sub and share with family that are both religious and secular.
Way past 100 subs now, but you deserve many more then you have.
The United States has a *godless* Constitution. The United Kingdom and most European governments are *functionally* atheist: without god. The secularization of government is what really matters. We have the freedom to not be governed by religion. Godless governance is *essential* to human freedom.
The distinction between religion *within* or *outside of* government - secularization of law - is absolutely a growing trend.
I don't think those goverments are godless or that religion is fading out
Yeah but there is a difference between the Government is Atheist vs the People are Atheists for example while the Soviets enforced State Atheism and suppresed religion but a ton of the Religion especially Christianity and Judaism went underground.
I agree. And it's also a green flag that the most developed countries with the Best Quality of life are more atheist.
@@jorgecuevas8843 yes, best quality in exploitation, usury, gambling and invading others in the name of freedom and justice
Religion is dying ? Thank god.
@okay okay Right on
Lol, great pun
it's notoriously difficult to get accurate data on religiosity and religion demographics. There is still a stigma associated with irreligion and atheism. Even worse, atheism is a death sentence on some part of the globe.
Some recent studies have presented data that show atheism is much more present in the united states than "official" survey indicate, because of the social sigma and possible social and professional repercussion of coming out as atheist.
Agreed. This data is somewhat fraught. How do we define "religiosity" or "religious identity?" Very difficult to do so. I've seen the research you're referencing. Cognitive scientists show that atheism might be as high as 20% of the US population. Having said all this though, I still stand by this video insofar as it questions the Secularization Theory. Religion is not going away any time soon.
@@ReligionForBreakfast But it's pretty obvious the number of atheists is on the increase in Europe and North America. Also I hear all the time the number of people who check the "no religion" box has increased significantly. Can you at least acknowledge that?
You could make the opposite argument with atheist regimes like the CCP, where spiritual belief is highly regulated and often persecuted. Being atheist doesn't automatically make one more tolerant.
Spending some social distancing time to binge watch RFB! Grateful
so, religion is not declining, it is changing. religion as it was a century or even half century ago ("traditional" or "that old time religion") is declining but new forms of and approaches to spiritual life are increasing. as an example, mainline protestantism is in decline while evangelical christianity is on the rise. any religion that does not change with the times will die out. this has been the way for thousands of years. old forms of religion fade away while new forms arise.
So why isn’t religion disappearing altogether with the rise of technology? For instance, you can know evolution is true just from googling it and evolution directly contradicts many religions.
@@freethinker424 first of all, religion IS SLOWLY disappearing. With each generation, there is a slowly increasing percentage of people who are not religious. It is not going to disappear overnight.
As to technology and science (like evolution threory) making religion obsolete, there are other reasons for religion and spirituality to remain meaningful. It is not just about explaining the physical universe.
@@lshulman58 in America and the west it is declining slowly but in most places it is growing
@@tnl-warrior3218 part of this difference is due to birth rates being lower in the west but higher in Asia
@@lshulman58
Yet those higher birth rates people didnt convert to atheism. Seems atheist failed
Peter Berger promoted the idea of secularization (1967) but then "recanted" his support of this idea in 2014, recognizing that instead of completely rejecting religion, many simply choose to have no particular affiliation.
I don't think religion is losing cultural significance, even in the west. It's just people are less given to exclusivism we typically associate with religion in the west, and are more given to pluralism. I wouldn't be surprised if substantial numbers of people in Europe admit to continuing to pray, for instance, even if they don't belong to a particular religious institution. And in many Scandinavia countries, substantial numbers of people do continue to participate in public religious rituals, such as baptism, weddings, or funerals. They may not admit belief in God because they associate God with religious sectarianism or exclusivism, perhaps, but that doesn't necessarily indicate they don't have religious commitments in the broader sense.
Agreed. Wild, loud man-children on the internet identifying as atheists have given everyone the illusion that atheism is a growing force.
The world is growing out of religion get over it
I completely agree most people seem to ignore the less than organized forms of religion that are growing in popularity today ( such as neo-paganism and the occult),, because they are simply too different from institutionalised religion, &often embrace humanistic ideologies associated with atheism.
Agreed. I think people need to broaden their definition of "religion." A lot of these so-called "spiritual but not religious" movements still fall under my definition of religion.
That is a very small minority. Most people just grew out of it.
I'm an agnostic atheist but I find being secular very boring in many aspects.
I don't believe in anything but Im still fascinated by religion.
Religion is still relevant for our social and psychological health. It yet is really important to supress bad behavior and bring more compassion. Supertitious and beliefs play an major role on social order. So what's the matter with religion? Is it really harmful as atheists usually say?
I don't think so. Even with my lack of faith I still urge to be part of a religious group for the cultural enrichment and to be socially healthy.
Tiago Suhet
How is this term of agnostic atheist work ? Is this agnostic or aotheist ? In theory when you are atheist you have no doubts, when you are agnostic you have.
@@hephopa6573 Actually you can, because they're not in the same realm : atheism belongs to the realm of belief (a belief in no God), whereas agnosticism belongs to the realm of knowledge (absence of knowledge on the existence or not of God). Therefore, you can be an agnostic atheist (not believing and not knowing), an agnostic theist (believing without knowing), a gnostic theist (that would be believing and affirming knowledge of the existence of God, whether based on empirical / scientific / rational evidence or not), or a gnostic atheist (meaning you affirm the knowledge of the inexistence of God or divinity in general).
Religion is declining, but spirituality isn't.
Yes, in some respects. Though I would still categorize "spirituality" as religion...just not organized religion.
The people who are considered to be Atheists are not Spiritual !!
Emanuele you nailed it.
The information i could get points to that conclusion.
People have a need for bs, but the religions they know can not fulfill it for them for one reason or another, and so they turn to other supernatural explanations.
I dont believe in religion and god but i believe in afterlife
+ReligionForBreakfast
I believe that the best description of religion is, an organized system of belief centered around the deity or supernatural power. Therefore, non-affiliated spirituality could not be classified as a religion.
Thanks for another interesting video.
Fascinating. Subbed.
It's interesting to me how so many people see religion as exclusively the organised world religions of today. But in antiquity people had spiritual beliefs which were not nearly as hard and defined as people today see them. Local cults were diverse and didn't require subscribing to a specific religion, something many people misunderstand about ancient religion like that of the Greco-Romans, Egyptians, Norse, Celts, etc.
We don't need this anomore. It has no place in a world where there is so much mindblowing beauty in science.
The key problem is that people frame this topic around rationality pitted against religion as a function of irrationality, which is such a bizarre Enlightenment pretense when one realizes what a catastrophic failure the Enlightenment has been as measured by Enlightenment goals themselves. But if global economics continue to lead to more post-industrialized economies around the world, notably through trade and market liberalization, there's no reason to suppose that birthrates will not fall as their middle class rise. Even Turkey has been impacted, as their birthrates approach below replacement levels. The same elsewhere, over a generation or two, will equally happen in the West. Projections, say, into 2070 for Islam's supplanting Christianity as world's most numerous religion can change really fast if there becomes a push to liberalize their markets.
Your brainwashed
@@ernestogramsci1656 Just imagine an intellectually lazy sociology undergrad bespeaking decolonization while drinking Mountain Dew and reading one small editorial about Gramsci calling anyone brainwashed
One issue that you may not have thought about is ISM. Political beliefs have become in some ways like a religion. Massive amounts of people hold a religious fervor for their political parties or beliefs. One could say the state or political belief system has taken the place of some world religions.
Great series and this is the best one yet!
I think religion is there to stay, but the people choose not to fanatically follow all of the ceremonies etc. People just not attached to the religious organization and choose to keep his/her religion in their heart, becoming personal. So people have the freedom to follow his/her choice
Please add subtitles for this video especially in Chinese because of the huge growth of the Christian population in Mainland China
UA-cam is blocked in mainland China.
Religion is evolving!
What will it become?
Religion+, try now,30 days free trial
There is no going back after the church was exposed.
Many lost thier faith.....can you blame them?
This seems to me to hinge on how we define words like "religion." One of my sons is an atheist but practices a life of love and gentleness to creation for ethical reasons, and became a vegan maybe 10 years ago or so. Some of the most ethical and compassionate people I have known would identify as atheist or agnostic. They don't believe in a higher power, but yet they identify some strong values. I'd also suggest that people find religion in sometimes surprising places that others wouldn't identify as religion at all. Ever been to a scifi/comic con? It can give every indication of being a religion in its own right. I speak as a member of STARFLEET, the International StarTrek Fan Association. As expressed in the video, one doesn't have to follow an "official" religion to still be religious in some way!
" destabilizes your presuppositions about secularization " ?
You have got me thinking that if you define religion not just as a belief in god or any particular set of beliefs but more broadly so it encompasses all sorts of cultural phenomena, then yea it's not declining. When so much of human activity is defined as religion "religion is not declining" becomes an almost bullet proof hypotheses, not even wrong. And it has the added advantage of leaving lots for religious studies to study.
The opposite true too tho what is defined as "not religion" since lots of them believe in God, pray and even go to holy places regularly.
6 years ago you were trying to get 100 subs? Wow you've come a long way! 307k now
my own religious journey started by a fascination with science. I saw how old, vast and mysterious the universe is, and how mysterious is its cause. to me, there was something missing from the Scientific narrative, specially the part that describes consciousness as an epiphenomenal effect of matter's interaction. it did not fit my own experience and intuition, so i decided to study religious traditions from all around the world. I'll consider myself and occultist and i've made religious/spiritual studies a very important hobby of mine. I do consider myself religious even if I don't fit into a particular tradition.
I'm just adding my story to the pile. great channel!
Witchcraft and Wicca
Neopaganism
These things are growing very diversely and rapidly.
I have seen the reverse. But it is an increase in Paganism, Dharmic faiths, and Zoroastrianism. Or religious integrating into a more folk religion.
Wow! Well put! Thank you. Wish I had found this when it was new.
The death knell of religion has been sounded many times before...before...before the internet!
This was extremely interesting and I genuinely feel like I've learned something
The majority of reports agree that religion is less popular today among high-income countries than it was previously...
This is an interesting perspective. But it makes sense.
In the words of a Catholic priest that I know:
“Culture is additive, not subtractive.”
Aloha 🙏🏼🤙🏼
For me Religion means believing in Supernatural phenomenon and generally includes an Afterlife.
I just admitted to myself when I was 13 that there was no evidence of an invisible being listening to me “pray” and that the world seemed to go on as if there was no God.
It was time to try to be more realistic.
Traditional religions of today might be in decline, but I believe that people will come up with new ones based on new age spirituality. I think eventually we'll see brand new religions form and have our current ones turn into ancient myth.
I think we would have seen that trend already in the decades since the 1960s, if your suspicion were correct. But we don't.
@@ems7623 wym we are seeing this? Just google new age gurus
@@ems7623”the decades since the 1960s” that’s like 60 years, it took centuries for Christianity to replace paganism in Rome
Great synopsis . I also would also factor in the fact that people have more complex and busy lives with a lot of sports, hobbies, interests etc many no longer have time for regular religious attendance
Or just grew up and see that religion is just outdated. It's immature magic thinking to believe in things noone can proof just to explain the world. We have science for that!
Is there a definition of religion by which it is declining? Also with population increasing is religion declining per capita if not absolutely?
Hi, I like your videos, but I think you are kind of missing the point on this one. In 1500, France had a population of about 16 million. If it had since then grown to a total of 20 million today, I think most people would agree that France had declined during that time, despite growing in absolute numbers.
You can make an allegory with income: if your salary rises by 1% per year, every year, you will make more money, yes, but you will also become poorer, because the relative value of each dolar is declining more quickly than you are increasing your supply in absolute numbers.
Secondly, you seem to imply that current demographic trends will persist. This is probably a double error. African countries may be experiencing a greater population growth right now, but it's not expected to last. Almost everyone expects their population growth trends to eventually flatten out and reach similar levels as to what seen in the developped nations. Secondly, and you did touch on this, these numbers don't account for religiosity. In the West, urbanisation and economic development led to lower birth rates and lower religiosity. While it would be imprudent to assume that what holds true for Christian Europe also holds true for Muslim Africa (for example), history does show many examples were secularisation did take root in African and/or Muslim countries. Turkey, Afghanistan, and Iran, for example. As well as other countries all over that were neither Western nor followed an abrahamic religion, such as China.
You do make the distinction between religiosity and organized religion, which is good. I do believe that the human species has an innate propensity towards religiosity. But the statistics do very clearly show a decline of religiosity in all of its facets. That some parts of the world are growing faster than other and thus increasing the total number of believers is rather irrelevant. The fact that religion survived and persisted even in nations such as the USSR with decades of oppression and state sponsored atheism goes to show that religion is here to stay, but that doesn't mean it's not declining. The % of religious people is declining, the average religiosity of religious people is declining, and eventually the absolute number of religious people will cease to grow and also start declining. It won't decline to zero, and it won't decline in absolute numbers within the next few years, but the overall picture is still very clearly a decline.
Thanks!
One big question I often have is, why aren't hybrids of Epicurean, Stoic and Cynic communities popping up everywhere to replace organized religion?
Post a link! I'd be fascinated. I've seen websites and books on being a modern Stoic/Epicurean/Platonist etc but never something as concrete as the equivalent to a regularly meeting church community. You really wonder why? In the Nineteenth Century when the poet Shelley declared his atheism some people asked whether he was in fact a Platonist. Its a weird religious binary we have in the west right now - and one I find utterly unattractive - between evangelical/fundamentalist or pseudo/post-hippie Hindu/Buddhism? Where are the ex-Christians going 'hey neoplatonism I can really buy aspects of that and Augustine related it to Christianity and I'm no longer a Christian, so lets go form a community and read Plato and Plotinus and form a weekly community around that.' Hey presto! You get the benefits of religious community without throwing away your intellect.
Hm... modern skepticism and Epicureanism? Epicureanism and other forms of ancient Skepticism had a way of life attached to their understanding of epistemology and their macro-conception of the world. On that note one shouldn't write nihilism off as necessarily a "negative" as many Christians are likely to do. Buddhism as an example. Could we even squeeze into the "nihilist camp" aspects of Christian Quietism or negative theology (eg Meister Eckhardt or much Christian mysticism) ?
How can something which includes some religious worship replace organized religion?
Good video as always. I dont think you emphasized enough that organised religion has collapsed in western europe. I know you mentioned it in passing. In europe the secularisation argument holds true. There is a ted x talk on this subject.
I hope it does
I find alot of people equate the lack of religion with non belief in God. Now, it's true that many people who are not religious do not believe in God, but I know from personal experience that many people aren't religious but still hold a belief in a deity, even if their concept of that deity is vague. One can have faith in a God without being religious, I find some people can't wrap their minds around that.
People say, we do not need religion cause we have science. But science will not give you all satisfaction in your life but only explanation of the world. If you want make up with a girl you like, that does not always happen. If your parents or your children died by car accident, science is not the solution to heal your suffering.Maybe in future in certain way but not in your life time.
People always hope and dream supernatural power and faith. You want ultimate protecting power this dis-loveable life. You always need and have the thirst of the supernatural power. Even you try to run away, it always following you like shadow.
Yes people want to live forever and always be happy but that option isn't available. But belief that you will be happy forever will make you happier now if you can stifle your doubts.
Didn’t even mention the growth of religion in China unless I missed it. Some speculation that its on its way to becoming the largest Christian country in a few decades.
Andrew Baker yea islam and christianity are growing a lot in china . The Chinese communists gov is trying to repress the muslims by restricting them from practicing the faith but it backfire when islam is growing.
Even though it is having net growth, it seems simmilar to the demographic transition to me, different countries and popualtions start very religious, then they modernize, then secularization takes hold. Religion is absolutely on the decline in the west, newer generations are not only much more likely to be atheistic, but even the religious ones are less religious than their predacessor's. Most religious people in the west are culturally religious, but I think that religion plays a much smaller part in most lives than it did even a few decades ago and we'll see the same trend happen as the Islamic world matures.
I don't think there's enough examples to prove that theory. North America and Western Europe are a tiny part of the world and you can say that there are many aspects that may have influenced the rise in the number of atheists that are not likely to be seen in other places (like the normalization of liberal democracy or capitalism). There's no reason why other parts of the world should become more religious or experience any other kind of cultural shift that's not the same that Western countries experienced.
This is difficult to say because religiosity means different things to different people.
What im quite confident about though is the rise in religious apathy:
A significant amount of believers technically do hold religious beliefs,but rarely practice their religion (praying or attending the place of worship) and generally religion plays a very small part of their life. Which makes organised religion institutions lose their important role in society and politics.
This is the best channel i have found so far this year
Nice to see a religion youtuber who accualy know what he is talking about. I would like to add one thing, tho.
From what I learned through my studies, there are two versions of secularisation theory. Stong and half strong. Strong seculisation (wich you describe here) have pretty much been proven wrong (and how often does that happen in humaniora science?).
Despite the images that it may bring up in ones head, half strong secularisation theory is the more likely of the two, as it holds the assumtion that religion will decline in power in secularising societies, but adapt to its new, lower position.
I think one of the mitigating factors is that when people say "religion is in decline" they mean Christianity. I consider myself agnostic atheist, but it doesn't mean I have no spiritual beliefs... it's just I don't believe in a god or supreme being. I know lots of people who are religious or spiritual, but they are all of various different faiths or belief systems... I have Christian friends, Muslim friends, Wiccan friends... I think we're just moving more toward a society where religion is seen as a personal choice and not a societal norm.
I agree with your data, though as education expands into developed countries, I suspect the high birth rates among the religious will be cancelled out by those birthed from religious parents adopting greater degrees of empiricism. Or maybe I'm wrong and education won't be expanded. It's been repressed before.
Empiricism is not in conflict with religiosity though, and education has not been shown to reduce religion
Phew, so it's not too late to get in on the grift, beautiful!
The numbskulls who keep pretending religion is a grift are simply irritating to thinking people by this point. Get educated.
Trying to get to 100 subscribers, you now have 777K subscribers! Good for you :)
While people might still be holding onto religious beliefs, I think more and more are turning from those beliefs while still trying to hold onto parts of their former religions. I don't see that as a "new religious movement", so much as the death-throws of the old religions.
This was a really really nice video. Very well explained.
Religion is growing in the Third World and declining in the First World. Pretty simple, really. If I was uneducated and impoverished then I would probably be religious too!
Thanks for your response. You don't need religion to believe in or know God. Indeed, in many instances I would say religion can be a hindrance to knowing God. However, conventional exoteric and fundamentalist religion seems to be very popular and, to some extent, useful in the Third World.
The White Injun The problem with your argument is you presume the existence of a God. The people you call privileged and comfortable that dismiss the existence of a god do so because they have not been given adequate evidence demonstrating the existence of said god.
Your second comment shows a level of arrogance that comes from religious people. The whole counter to religious movements is a result of religions attempting to impose their beliefs on the whole. An excellent example is the recent "debate" (and I use this term loosely) in Australia over SSM and the right to discriminate. In essence, the primary opposition to SSM was religious in nature (all counter arguments against SSM were religious). That in itself was bad enough but when they lost the vote, there has been a push to exempt religions from the various anti-discrimination laws that exist in Australia, an exemption that doesn't exist for anyone else.
This doesn't just demonstrate a "privileged" attitude from religious people, but it also demonstrates why there is growing opposition to religion in Australia.
ReligionForBreakfast, I get your argument but one of the big problems (as identified in a previous comment) with determining religious numbers is that whilst there are statistics to tell us how many are religious (again using Australia as an example), approximately 52% (christians), this doesn't tell us just how many are actually practicing their religion. Further still, the trend has been a general decline in religion and a rise in those claiming to be no religion.
The White Injun sure present your evidence.
The White Injun The “privileged and comfortable” you speak of do not randomly come home from work one day and think “Well god is dead, time to move on”. Obviously the more “privileged” people you speak of will have much better education, and will more likely have seen many more viewpoints and ideals about the world we live in. Thus, allowing them to form a much better opinion on how the world truly works. Ever heard of the Plato Cave analogy? If we only have ever heard one story for the entirety of our lives from the most trusted people in our lives (parents, teachers, pastors), why believe anything else at all? Even if it’s true. Critical thinking skills are the bare minimum requirement for detaching oneself from an incorrect belief. If one grows up with a mindset that questioning the validity of a god is wrong and punishable (very harsh punishment throughout history I might add), the critical thinking of said individual can be stunted beyond repair. Indoctrination of any child into any faith based organization is honestly a form of child abuse in my view. Doing so without teaching them about science, reason, or other common religions is one of the biggest problems facing the world as a whole today.
+The White Injun Christianity is a religion. If you are going to say that Christianity is not a religion then you need to define 'religion' and 'Christianity' and show how they are not related. For me, Christianity is obviously a set of beliefs about divinity, eternity, morality and humanity. It has a holy book and sacred rituals. These things are all elements of what I call religion, and I think religious studies teachers would agree.
Obviously you are free to call Christianity or your personal belief system whatever you want. But to me, to say "I love Jesus and hate religion" just doesn't make sense. I understand what Evangelicals and Pentecostals are trying to say, but I think they are fooling themselves.
So.. Religion is growing because in developing countries is having a population growth, and in 1st world nations, religion has become so vague, that anyone who believes in anything supernatural is religious..? How the mighty have fallen if this is the best arguments religion defenders now have.
+Lamaar Steadman Yeah that pretty much is my argument. I would say "spiritual but not religious" is still "religion." Just not "organized religion." Organized religion may be in decline in the West, but yet people still are believing in supernatural things. I'm not defending religion, I'm trying to interpret demographic data. I invite you to offer your own argument after reading the Pew Research data I cite.
ReligionForBreakfast My guess, and it be known that this is only dealing in my small circle of the world and the Internets, is that people are very delusional.
Too many people think the rules and laws do not count for them, even natural law. So, people, thinking that they are special, do special rituals to enforce that self delusion, like praying to a Rock, or lighting rune candles, or doing rain dances. That is one.
The second would be that people, who has been indoctrinated for decades about the importance of ritual and prayer, believing in magic and an invisible dictator, and the like, do have a hard time quitting those practices Cold Turkey. They need something that help them ween off that addiction, like smokers need the patch. But as the person get use to living without magic, faith, and ritual, the new age mystics and practices will melt away to the side, just like the previous belief in their old religion.
Third. People are still afraid of being ostracized by their community. If asked, by a random person, in public, about their faith, they can not lie to themselves anymore, but do not want people to think they are some kind of monster, so they make the comment about being spiritual. Its a way that they can keep within the community, without being viewed as the Rational Devil who needs to be shunned. It is like the word Agnostic.. Although it has it Webster definition, what it truly mean, "I am an atheist who is too afraid to let the world know I am."
ReligionForBreakfast Oh.. and thank you for the reply. I rarely get those on the forum I post. :D
+Lamaar Steadman No problem, my channel is still small, so I can respond to most comments. Religion for Breakfast is committed to the academic study of religion. We don't endorse or defend it, we just follow the evidence.
Your theories are interesting. I'd be curious to see if the "new age mystics" as you call them decline as well. I'm skeptical though, because people have been claiming religion will disappear since the 1800s...and it still isn't disappearing. That's why I'm skeptical of the secularization theory.
ReligionForBreakfast In the 1800's, Religion did not have something as powerful invasive and easily available as the Internet. There are too many communities, speakers, debates, and books on the topic of Superstition vs Rationality, the Religion, although never to go extincted, heavily crippled beyond repair.
The lovely thing about religious belief is that you cease to think critically and imagine the universe was created just for you..
Quite the opposite, as you'd know if you got some education on the topic.
@@topologyrob
Thankyou for your comment.
The wish to live for eternity in the heavenly afterlife is a sweet idea but rather self centered don't you think ?
@@iainrae6159 exactly the opposite - it’s ego death - and forever is just a time-based notion. Time is illusory
@@topologyrob
As Bob Dylan put it.
'People disagree on just about everything'.
Time may well be an illusion,just like supernatural Gods and angels.
@@iainrae6159 that doesn’t mean people give up critical thought when they are different from you
Hmm I hoped to find a point here, but still my vision of the world didn't become clearer after looking at this video. My guess is that society is quickly changing right now, and religions doesn't adapt that fast to the social change, so they are suffering because of that, but in one way or another they will find the way to recover.
ReligionForBreakfast, you are obscuring. Diversity of religion says nothing about the decline of religion overall. Don't conflate the two. Also decline is not the same as disappearing... again do not confuse the two. No one is saying religion is disappearing. If you are going by pure numbers the population of the world has substantially increased over the last two generations so of course there is going to be an increase in the number of religious for that reason.
In terms of percentages of a given population it is a fact that religious belief is on the decline... especially so in western nations, while atheism (and the religious nones) are growing at a substantial rate. Not sure why you are trying to obscure this much noticed trend. If atheists are increasing in number then it stands to reason the religious must be in decline.
There’s also evidence that the world is not only no longer enchanted, but we increasingly see it as “disenchanted.” As in, no longer believing in God but longing for something transcendent and divine to give meaning.
This is an EXCELLENT VIDEO SERIOUSLY! People will always need spirituality, even atheists need to fill that spiritual void. Nothing new under the sun. Why do you only have 333k subs?
I'm gonna disagree with this.
Even though im technically an orthodox Christian (more so because of cultural reasons and upbringing) I never even found the need to fill somekind of spiritual void,and always found the idea of somekind of supernatural existence quite silly.
I would say this supposed spiritual void can be filled with a person delving more into philosophy, phycology, economics and politics
@@user-my4lf4bx6v Phycology? Economics? Are you being ironic?
Your probably not realizing the need yet. A lot of people don't until disaster strikes. Also when your young and healthy your full of spirit and life and only few realize the impermanence of youth to pursue God. Like you mentioned are you going to fulfill the need with temporary or eternal things.
No one on their death bed wishes they spent more time on work or philosophy or economics...or the study of algae.
Secularism and dis-belief are costing Religion billion$$$ 💸💰💸 in tax free revenue.
Organized Religions are essentially corporations and real estate companies.
Catholic, Mormon and Amish are big land owners.
This is one point that i have to disagree with you. I usually defer to expertise but ... Secularization seems to be very much a long term trend since at least the Enlightenment, if not the Scientific Revolution.
Islam has been less dramatically affected by these developments. And the difference between the West and Near East is VERY noticeable. Secular culture has made the West.
As for the rising numbers of Christians and Muslims in the global south ... Have you corrected for the population growth rates in developing nations? It sounds like you have not.
While i agree that the none religious trend in Western society, is on the rise. Now as a slight inclusion on this though, smaller religions in the United States and Europe, like various pagan revivalists either taking a philosophical view or literal, and religions like Voodoo, Wicca and the Saint Death cult in Mexico. These once obscure religions could actually fill the Religious void in our society. These religions have seen a huge boom in their respective areas, and could start becoming more common place. Or possibly eastern religions like Buddhism are becoming huge in western society. Particularly in America, in California and Other places. Have seen a large growth in our society. Like myself, for example, I am a Buddhist, devoutly, yet liberally minded Midwestern Guy. Lol, About as American as it gets. And other demographics include a rise in Mainline Liberal Chistian adherents in the LBGT community. So yes I agree religion is growing, and its a great thing in my opinion. It shouldn't be a race between rationality, and spirituality. One should use rational thinking and science to explain the outside world, and use spirituality to explore the one within ourselves. They should be used to cross examine and build yourself into living a genuinely happy, progressive, and peaceful life. As I use mine. Just some personal insight. :) great video, totally hitting the like button.
This seems like a bit of a straw argument.
No one thinks religion is declining in Saudi Arabia. People who say "religion is declining" mean "...in the minority of places where there's reasonably widespread access to education".
Actually mostly where people are distracted by their phones and live shallow lives - ie the exploiting world (the first world) - not in the majority world they rip off (eg. Sub-Saharan Africa, India).
Well,are you trying to tell people not to abandon religion,even if the religion itself loosing its importance??
He has to pretend is job is secure... this is his bread and butter.
Otherwise he has to go back to school and start over.
If anyone is scared of the rise of Islam, helping poor countries have better access to healthcare and education will actually slow this rise in Islam due to the fact that these factors reduce birth rates in any population. Instead of freaking out about Islam, work to ensure these people can have the same access to knowledge and security we have so that their version of Islam will be much more beneficial and less violent like a minority of it currently is, much of it created by desperation, not necessarily religion.
anubis2814 islam is growing despite that. Islam is growing in the east and is still growing in the middle east. Its growing by conversion and fertility. Believe me islam is good but some people worsen its image.
It appears you are missing a key matter of context in the secularization thesis, quantitative social scientists that are proponents of the theory usually describe it as a western phenomena, and one that applies to "developed" (aka. modern industrial) countries. It is not generally an assumption about the entire globe because not all societies have emulated modern western systems. So in the proper context, the statistical data does support the position of the trend. While it may be the case that some might argue that every major country will *eventually succumb* to this pattern, that is not a the usual formulation of the theory. Another important note is that this is a statistical trend , its approximate and general, so exceptions can exist.
Your videos are great and super informative, but the music is so distracting and actually stresses me out to where I have to click away from your videos...when I really want to stay and watch them through because you’re extremely knowledgeable and present in an entertaining way already! Would you consider having the music a lot softer and in the background, or no music at all? It’s your channel and obviously up to you, but it seems a few other people are having a hard time with the music too. I really want to hear what you have to say, but I can’t with the music :(
Yeah these are older videos. In all my recent videos I don’t use music. It was definitely a mistake.
Ah, okay! No worries. I’ve heard waaaay louder and more distracting music in other people’s videos, so it wasn’t truly too bad to begin with. Thank you though - your content is great and I look forward to more videos. :)
Ross Douthat's "Bad religion" is a provocative and interesting piece that tackles the "crisis of faith" in America.
good
The book of Revelation indicates that governments will turn on religion and attempt to destroy it.
well that isn't happening!
@@derpedlerp1237 china, Canada, alot of the western world
I believe while Religion is still here it would be a net Benefit for Humanity to leave Religion behind.
Islam is increasing its way of life
I feel like when (most everyday people) say “religion is declining” they usually mean Christianity or what, which also isn’t true. Paganism and folk religions are definitely growing but so many people don’t take them serious as real religions
The word religion come from the same root word as ligament, as in that thing that hold bones together. Hence the word was invented to describe the ideas and traditions that held groups of people together, usually by their believes in God or gods.
Christians are going down but islam is overtaking ...
Atheist countries are the most peaceful
Well,more like atheism arised out of peaceful societies
There is no peaceful society
@@solesurvivor7989 Iceland is very peaceful.
Though I am a atheist, feeling very bad for loss of religion.
I think I agree for the most part. It seems to be shifting and changing rather than declining.
I grew up in a Christian household and school but always questioned their claims. I was long agnostic and I'm now an Atheist ... I'm very proud to have learnt about the facts surrounding religion and it's very freeing to be religion free.
It was the opposite for me. I am from east asia, and I was raised without religion
I later found out about scientific theories like fine tuning, and came to a conclusion that atheism was incompatible with science.
I don't have any religion right now, but I am definitely not an atheist anymore. Besides, religion killed under 50 million people, while a single Atheist stalin, killed 100 million.
Hence, I don't want to associate myself with atheism anymore.
Religion will doe at some point just like everything else in this world
If I live to be 96 years old then there will be at least one Christian in the 22ND century
Boo
Billions of people around the world bow their heads to social media everyday.
Their devotion is an overwhelming sensation.
Lucretius better than blind faith
you set out to prove religion is not disappearing, but the claim" religion is declining" does not imply that. so the whole video wasn't necessary. in the past, 100% were religious, even if today 99% still are, than that's a decline, so yes, religion is declining
My predictions are that religion and spirituality will regain in the near future their previous status. from my bleak point of view, we are entering something in the sense of "dark ages"
Organised religion such as and specifically organised christianity is declining/decreasing through-and-under fact's-and-figures and such as and specifically organised islam is inclining/increasing through-and-under fact's-and-figures
Good topic, well presrented.
exclusive humanism, let me write it down
thankyou
I hope you do an update on this topic. Like once this video hits the 10 year mark.
Those areas with large population growth are only a few decades from significantly improved education which historically both curbs population growth AND religious growth (though not religiosity)
Rand Zopyr
But non religiosity is not atheism. Non religious people are theists at more than 60%.
Present trends might change unexpectedly. After all at one point Japan was going to be the most powerful country in the future and at one point air travel for ordinary people was getting faster and faster until they got rid of the Concorde.
background music is very annoying
better use no music
Yeah, I've dropped the background music in most of my later videos. Check the date stamp...this was in my early YouTubing years, and I sucked with production quality.
Half way through the video i felt the urge to build a rocket and send it to space ;-)
When it comes to philosophy, Quentin Smith comments: "[n]aturalists passively watched as realist versions of theism . . . began to sweep through the
philosophical community, until today perhaps one-quarter or one-third of philosophy professors are theists, with most being orthodox Christians. . . . in philosophy, it became, almost overnight, ‘academically respectable’ to argue for theism, making philosophy a favored field of entry for the most intelligent and talented theists entering academia today."
Smith concludes, “God is not ‘dead’ in academia; he returned to life in the late 1960s and is now alive and well in his last academic stronghold, philosophy departments."
The renaissance of Christian philosophy over the last half century has served to reinvigorate natural theology, that branch of theology that seeks to provide warrant for belief in God’s existence apart from the resources of authoritative, propositional revelation. Today, in contrast to just a generation ago, natural theology is a vibrant field of study
All of the various traditional arguments for God’s existence, as well as creative new arguments, fi nd prominent, intelligent proponents among contemporary philosophers.
Moreover, genuinely new insights have been acquired into traditional problems raised by nontheists such as the problem of evil and the coherence of theism.
If the last bastion of religion is the ivory tower of academia, this only underscores how irrelevant it truly is to the man on the street, i.e., 99.9 percent of the population.
Didn't know you tube had so many people who are intricate thinkers and philosopher's