Very interesting example. Massive loophole. It's bit of a cheat code, honestly. Not sure I'd go into buying a shared ownership flat with the intention of attempting this - a lot could go wrong - but those who have already bought one would be fools not to consider it. Also got to admire the value of knowledge, understanding how a system operates and ingenuity. I feel like these skills are incredibly undervalued and rare. Good job.
Great point - I wouldn't recommend it as a buy into Shared Ownership to do this, but totally a way to get out the system if already in it, especially as a lot can get trapped like I could have been, an option to explore the possiblities.
The housing situation in this Country is utterly dire. One of the most basic human needs is a home and yet a home for millions of people is not possible. Making money from any residential property development and stupid house prices are to blame. A 'home' should be that and not a tool for wealth.
Additions: - 06:40 - Total loss would have been £90k including estate agents fees - It seems some housing associations are different and want a profit split, best to check this with yours and ensure if you make a loss they also split that - Both the HA and buyer were aware of both figures and knowingly approved it during conveyancing. It was transparently shared
I wish I found this video years ago. I've bought and sold 2 shared ownership properties and made big losses based on the challenges you shared. You've really highlighted the corruption. Nice job!
So let me get this straight, the flat is valuated 575k and you ask for it to be higher so you get to 620k. At this point the property is too expensive to sell as shared ownership so you are allowed to sell on the normal market. Then you go and get a new valuation at 560k (which is cheap enough to sell through shared ownership) yet somehow you are still allowed to sell on the market. How is that even possible?
Surely that lower valuation of the property, which was still 60% owned by the HA at the time, should have been disclosed to the HA thus making the property now affordable and should go back into the shared ownership scheme?
@@markbrookes91 The lower valuation was disclosed to the HA for the purpose of staircasing, it seems in this context that the HA should have the ability to withdraw permission to sell on the open market, not sure if this is something they can do or not?
Affordability calculations (I don't know how they work it out exactly), meant even at 560k, they would have had to find a buyer with a minimum of £80k but a government cap of £90k so would be very limited to find someone in a 10k salary range, thus they upheld the open market permission for this reason
@@MattBrighton Most affordability calculators show that with the values you described and the house valued at 560k, a salary for 65k would suffice. I still don't understand how you managed this.
Thank you for this. I'm in a shared ownership house and feel trapped with ever increasing rents on a property that is unsuitable for me as I have difficulty using the stairs. You have given me hope that I may be able to get rid of it and move to something more suitable.
It was awful that my HA kept raising rents without any communication, then services charges escalated, then admin charges went up. Nightmare. Hope you get out of it!
@@jasbindersingh2441nobody forced you to buy an overpriced property, yes, but in the U.K. every single property is over priced, so you buy overpriced, or you never buy a house
This is an interesting strategy. I work in shared ownership sales and resales, some HA clients are now conducting valuations for resales at their own cost rather than leaving it to the leaseholder. I wouldn’t say something like this would be replicable for the average shared owner but I am happy to hear this worked for you.
When you say "HA Clients", do you mean the HA's? My understanding of the rules is that the SO property owner has the responsibility (and cost) of getting an independent RICS valuation. i.e. the valuation should have nothing to do with the HA or developer. That RICS valuation is then the basis of the equity split upon sale. Are you saying that HA's are doing valuations now?
@@hughgallagher Alot are in the process of changing it meaning you won't be able to benefit. I work for a HA and they are aware of the issue now and changing how valuations work meaning they handle that part with the RICS
I wasn't expecting it in the slightest. They do give open market permission if you've been on the market for 8 weeks with no shared ownership sale, lucky that it was priced out of affordability and was given straight away
@@MattBrighton By doing this you are pricing out a massive amount of affordable housing for people who really need it. I've reported your video to multiple housing associations notifying them of your exploit
I rented out the spare room to lodgers for most of the time I owned the flat at more than the rental price, I didn't include that profit figure, add an extra £40k in rental profit under the government rent a room scheme. first £7.5k a year tax free. Was able to deduct rental costs and bills as expenses via accountant on self assessment.
Thank you so much for this video. It could not be more relevant to me currently- stuck in a shared ownership flat, desperately needing to move to get more space. All Housing advice doesnt apply to shared ownership due to the complexity. I’ll be taking your advice here
Please explain how it is possible to submit 2 different valuations to the Housing Association. Meaning, if they have already seen the higher valuation, how come they would also accept to lower one if they make less money?
I wondered the same - they openly said to me that I could submit a different valuation if I wanted to, as long as it's by a RICS surveyor they'll accept it. I did fear they'd reject the lower one after handing in the higher one but they knowingly accepted it because it still meets their conditions of a RICS survey and it's written they have to accept it in the agreement I had with them. They couldn't reject a RICS valuation.
They were good on the £620k example, that's when they said I could submit a lower valuation if I could get one to minimise my losses and they'd accept it, I just don't think they expected me to flip the cards the opposite way round.
Hi Anyone have any advice to get open market access? It just varies between HA and HA - are there any set rules? I may be only able to do this by getting a very high RICS valuation so nobody would buy it in the nominated period and then they would have to give me open market access.
The question is tho would you go shard ownership again? or full mortgage? which is better, i'm trying to find whats best & just to many cons i might to just live in my car at this point😂
You were just lucky to find a buyer who bought it for 620k. I don't recommend your method to anyone...because most probably you will make a loss when you sell ownership property.
Totally agree - so much luck involved in so many ways to make the scenario work. Lucky the buyer came in at the price they did, lucky their mortgage didn't expire and the sale collapsed, lucky I put in the high valuation first then realised the flaw to submit a lower one.
But this looks so doable too if you was a potential first time shared owner … London is probably going to burst in coming few years i like to think, (anyone else’s opinions are definitely more credible than mine I know 0 about property apart from just trying to rent in London and or buy) so if you was to buy when it’s at its lowest and sell high perhaps if the market was to inflate and or boom again which is likely inevitable?
@@zacstarkey1369 This is why there won't be a property crash. HS2 the newly planned train system will mean London people will abandon the city to get away elsewhere in the UK raising the prices elsewhere. If you don't own a house in the next few years before it completes you will never own a property. Its going to cause so much societal issues
@@anthonyfaucy2761 “if you don’t own a house in the next few years before it completes you’ll never own property” is an absolutely ridiculous claim. Just shut up.
£620k for a flat on London? Wow I have never understood why it was so expensive. You could get a massive 5 bed detached for 200k cheaper in the Midlands
Yeah this doesn't always work... we are in London and have had 1 viewing in 7 month, 5 months of that has been on the open market... we've had to drop and we will lose that money, because the RICS surveyors say there isn't enough movement in the market to drop their valuation. You were incredibly lucky. May I ask who your housing association were? Ours do not let you keep everything above the RICS valuation!! It makes me kinda sick they have all these charges when many shared owners have such little equity it would trap them!!
Mine was NHG. Are you L&Q by any chance? I had a viewing with them initially and found them super inflexible, full of red tape and in some ways unfair. Would they split the loss with you if the flat sold less than the RICS valuation? I'm hearing it varies by housing association. Mine expected me to pay the full loss, so would be unreasonable for them to expect anything if a profit was made.
@@MattBrighton I'm with Catalyst! mine expect me to take the full loss, but still want their profits of anything over 🙄 it seems like there's so many loopholes that cost us as shared owners! We're lucky we have equity, but imagine 25% owners who put down the minimum, if that was us we would be trapped and unable to sell as we'd have to pay to leave... pretty despicable 😵💫
Can’t wait to be free of SO! Just hope I don’t become trapped because I can’t afford all the fees with selling. I only own 25% but hoping it might work in my favour being more affordable to someone else 🤞I heard it harder to sell at a higher share value as people would rather buy the property at 100%. And I’m so lucky that my flat has doubled in price 😮
I am trying to go through the same process right now. It is a bit difficult to get information from the HA and many of the real estates agents don't even know about the option of staircasing and selling at the same time. I had several evaluations from some estate agents and the Foxton's one was the lowest. I am also concerned about the RICs evaluation. My HA recommends to go for one of one of his pannel professionals which I believe will play against me. Thanks for the video. It is brilliant :)
@@BIG2hats thanks but like i said ive never been a fan of shared ownership therefore i dont plan on getting a shared ownership. I just think it’s amazing news for him and happy he’s shared. Thats all.
Hello and thank you for the video. Re: "...the minimum income required for a buyer to afford to purchase the property is in excess of £83000..." (letter from the Local Authority). I wonder how they figured out this number. At relatively standard multiple of 4x, the maximum mortgage would be £332k which for a 40% shared would equate to at least a £830k property (that's assuming a 0% deposit i.e. 332k/40%, whereas with a deposit it would be higher). But your flat's valuation was circa £600k. I wonder whether it could be a mistake that they thought a 40% share would require at least 83K income?
Hi Matt, did you have a cash buyer? My estate agent said this won’t work if I get a buyer that needs a mortgage because they won’t let them go ahead offering more money than the RICS valuation says…. Any thoughts? Thank you
Curiously no reply after 1 year. Although, from the video, the RICS valuations Matt obtained varied from £560,000 to £620,000. The buyer would have obtained their own valuation from their lender. So if the lender's valuer agreed it was worth £620,000 then the deal would proceed.
I’m just buying a share ownership. Love the video, thank for this information. It’s still early days for me but this has given me a lot to think about 👍
Did you buy ur house yet? How did it go? I am looking into it now, I am on 30000 and have 20 deposit. Will i be able to buy shared ownership with that???
Hi Matt, Just saw your channel yesterday and been watching your great videos and progress. I have a question about this property sale. Why did the housing association let you continue to sell the property on the open market when you came back with a £560k RICS valuation?
I asked the same question (can I still sell open market at 560k) they said it does fall back within affordability for shared ownership but I think minimum income was about 80k. So to find a buyer they’d need to earn more than 80k but less than 90k which massively limited the pool of buyers so they upheld their open market permission
@@MattBrighton this is more luck than anything, to get it to fall in valuations that it perfectly fit within a certain range. Most shared ownership owners would not be able to pull this off...
Agreed with everything except for the part where you mentioned cost of shared ownership or buying same property outright are similar, in reality shared ownership property cost significantly less because rents via housing association are much less than rent on open market.
Is that true across the board though? Whenever I have looked into buying SO vs BUYING OUTRIGHT, the SO rent + service charge + mortgage was about the same as 100% mortgage.
@@hughgallagher In general Houses/flats sold under the control of HA are lower priced compared to new build market value. They are part of the % the developer needs to provide as affordable rental /sales to the local council.
Twinkle toes, sharp on your feet there. good channel this for younger people to watch, I told my 30 year olds to follow this chap in place of asking me.
This kind of thing would only works in a rising market where you find a buyer willing to come in at a high price. Over the next few years in London, this won't be the case.
This is interesting, i was one of the 5-8% that did staircase to full so im essentially out and let it out overseas now but wouldnt really rec shared ownership although some could argue its better than double charges with htb. Mine was also in the olympic park so some upside just being able to access the area. Rics surveyors seem to just be able to make a lot up, and I also did a valuation challenge to lower a staircase quote but your challenge doesnt have to be accepted by the original surveyor. Headache system all round, wouldnt probably ever buy a flat in london again.
I’d never do shared ownership again if I had the option. Such a nightmare system. And housing associations not set up properly to deal with shared owners. Found the whole thing frustrating from start to finish despite some wins in between
One question - how did the housing association let you sell it on the open market with a lower valuation? If you bought it for roughly 560k on shared ownership and the valuation is around the same amount (which they had to accept) how come they did not sell it for shared ownership again?
I have a question please: How was it that the housing association had to accept the lower valuation but they did not rescind the permission that they had previously granted to sell on the open market? Was that permission not conditional on the valuation price being unaffordable for anyone earning under £90k??? So surely if the lower valuation was accepted, that would then make it affordable for those earning under £90k, and therefore there would be no need for permission to sell on the open market, and therefore they would rescind the permission?
I'm not 100% sure what their calculation was on the lower valuation but they gave me the same reason. It might have been because at the time I bougt the flat I probably fell just within the range for my salary VS share which meant re-selling it is quite hard because I fell in that unique category. But with it being a new build they were open to selling any amount of share dependent on my own finances.
Thanks very much for the video. Did you have a cash buyer? My estate agent said this won’t work if I get a buyer that needs a mortgage because they won’t let them go ahead offering more money than the RICS valuation says…. Any thoughts? Thank you
Is it not likly that once you get the new valuation to bring the house down again the housing association will want to sell the house for you as then minimum income requirement will be lower and therefore easier for them to sell making it more beneficial for them? Could we go to all this work for them to then sell it themself causing you to in-fact take a loss?
Hi, really interesting, I was linked this video by a friend. I am currently in a SO property and am looking to try and sell in the next year. The one thing that I don't understand, is why didn't/couldn't the HA remove your permission to sell on the open market when you went back with a lower valuation? I would have thought with the lower valuation, they would say that falls within shared ownership bands, and would then try to sell the property on to other potential SO buyers? *edit: Nevermind, I found my answer in other comments 🙏interesting, I'll need to look at this.
If true, very odd that just below £600K was deemed 'unaffordable' for the SO scheme, as there are plenty of London SO flat above that figure - going up to £850K
My flat. You are not allowed to sell at a different price. You have to go with the surveyors valuation. No more no less. You can get another valuation from their named surveyors. Not the ones you find.
40% of the £57k was already his - so the true bonus was £34k - which the HA should have said we get 60% of the sale subject to us accepting the offer as well
Question on paying the stamp duty as a first-time buyer, would you recommend to pay the full market price or the share value which will be free? I am planning to staicase in the future but I was told the stamp duty is not refundable
Hi Matt, how was the last 560k valuation out of affordability if you bought it for more yourself? Or did they just not revoke the open market permission once you gave them the revised lower valuation?
Great video, thank you! Quick question: If the property value decreases, would you pay less for the remaining shares? If a person is able to haggle with the independent valuer to lower the price, I'm wondering whether this method could be used to reduce the cost of the remaining shares as mentioned above. Would the property developers, housing association, or mortgage providers own valuers allow this as, from your example, my understanding is that the scheme provider must accept any legitimate RICS Property Valuation? It would be great to hear your thoughts, and thank you in advance!
When you received the 3rd RICS value of £565k, why did the HA not reassess the sale and deem the flat eligible to be sold under the shared ownership scheme as the buyers would now be under the 90k income threshold as you were when you first purchased?
JUST A QUESTION PLS. CAN ONE BUY SHARED OWNERSHIP IF THEY ARRANGE THE CASH FOR THE 24 OR 40 PERCENT SHARE. I AM FEDUP OF MOVING AROUND WITH CHILDREN AND UNEMPLOYED BUT MY FAMILY IS WILLING TO HELP ME WITH THE MONEY TO BUY UPNORTH
Matt I have shared ownership flat. I am not clear on ....how did you manage to pay full amount to housing association which was your buyers money ..,to claim full equity?
All the best and good video. In my opinion it is still a good time to invest in different stocks like gold, silver and digital currencies. This is one of the most important skills to learn and everyone should invest instead of saving. Some may agree, some may disagree. My big compliments to Natalie Rose Strayer for improving my portfolio!!......
I'm surprised that you just mentioned Natalie Strayer here also Didn’t know she has been good to so many people too this is wonderful, i'm in my fifth trade with her and it has been super.
Natalie Strayer has really set the standard for others to follow, we love her here in Canada 🇨🇦 as she has been really helpful and changed lots of life's
hi @mattbrighton. Did you get a mortgage on the 100% valuation, or did selling on the same day mean you didnt need the mortgage. I am actually in the process of the doing the same thing, but have a mortgage off on the 100% as the housing association wont sell to me without seeing the mortgage offer. Sam
Amazing! But I’m wondering why the housing association still gave you the go ahead to sell the house on the open market when the valuation came back lower the second time round ? Was it overlooked or was it not even considered? And you used the dispensation they gave you initially on the higher valuation as the ticket to sell on the open market?
Wow !!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing !!!! A huge congratulations to yourself!!! I am genuinely sooooooooo happy for you !!!! You are smart. Therefore, you deserve this outcome. You must be extremely happy for this !!! I am also own a shared ownership property and want to sell it, and this video is extremely helpful for me. I am so grateful for your videos, as they are very helpful for people like me Thanks a lot !!! You are an amazing person as you are helping others in life. I hope you will but a new property where you will be happy.
The guidance isn’t poor. Solicitors don’t bother reading the guidance. I recently dealt with a solicitor was using a SDLT form from 2003. Despite me informing them the form had been revised since then. Solicitors are not tax professionals, but they also some can’t be bothered to learn or blame it on back office staff for errors and late penalties.
but why the clickbait-y "£110k" in the title when it's actually £57k from the loophole (as you yourself say at 12:40 )?! there should be a law against clickbait
They tend to go in the middle so there’s wiggle room - as long as there’s sold comparable to justify it a case can be made for a price decrease / increase
idk aren’t you open to a claim from the housing association of sale at under value regardless of the sweet talking RICS the transaction registered on LR is far higher?
Nope - They actively approve the open market sales price (as did the buyers solicitors who could transparently see both sets of figures), all they care about is their share is the RICS valuation price. It's bonkers.
It did - the minimum was £80k, max was £90k on the lower val, but so with it being such a restrictive limit they kept up their open market permission otherwise would have been a nightmare to find a buyer within a £10k salary range - and unfair for them to even try.
Great video. I believe with my housing association they mentioned on the lease that should you wish to sell your shares then it will have to be sold to them first before it can be allowed on the open market should they not able to find a buyer. Also the price will be based upon the RICs surveyor valuation so no room to gain anything there unless it’s higher valued. Also I seem to remember you can only sell the number of shares you own not at 100% unless you completed staircasing.
I couldn't sell just my share, hence using the buyers funds to staircase it first, then instantly sell it to them known as a 'Simultaneous Staircase and Onward Sale Transaction'
@@MattBrighton Hi Matt, Thanks for the video, something of a godsend we are in pretty much exactly the same position and in a similar location as you, we also have an EWS1 form issue but that is another story - Couldn't for the life of me think that the transaction was called so additional thanks for that well
@@otuzuul77 it's on the open market at the moment it's a bit slow going, We couldn't beat the RICs valuation down very much but should make a bit of extra money when it does eventually sell
@@dtait3222 I see. I am looking to buy SO as I cannot afford the freehold. How long did u stay in ur SO apartment, or when did u buy?? Which HO did u buy from? Good luck with the selling 🙏
It is a loophole and full marks for achieving the results. But it probably isn’t as big a loophole? Because it hinges on the affordability cap which means the property has to be within that price range. A shared ownership flat at 500k is almost certainly not going to be sold on open market, right?
by the end of 3 years did you actually own the 40% of the apartment or was that just the value you paid mortgage for? That would make a big difference. Sorry for the newbie language as I am trying to understand how exactly that loophole works
I think they will likely close this down by simply adding additional restrictions around the valuation process as this where the variables are that do not work their favour.
The HA I deal with only allows valuations from their specific list of surveyors who report only to the HA . You are not allowed to ask a local estate agent and persuade them to value the property at a low value.
Great video, but i just wanted to ask your valuation of 620K enabled you the right to have your flat be sold on the open market, however this is not usually the case am I right? In addition at the lowest valuation you had the 2nd time around would the HA allowed you to have sold it on the open market?
Very interesting example. Massive loophole. It's bit of a cheat code, honestly. Not sure I'd go into buying a shared ownership flat with the intention of attempting this - a lot could go wrong - but those who have already bought one would be fools not to consider it. Also got to admire the value of knowledge, understanding how a system operates and ingenuity. I feel like these skills are incredibly undervalued and rare. Good job.
Great point - I wouldn't recommend it as a buy into Shared Ownership to do this, but totally a way to get out the system if already in it, especially as a lot can get trapped like I could have been, an option to explore the possiblities.
@@MattBrighton do you offer consultancy etc on this? Paid of course. I'm in a shared ownership myself, looking to sell
The housing situation in this Country is utterly dire. One of the most basic human needs is a home and yet a home for millions of people is not possible. Making money from any residential property development and stupid house prices are to blame. A 'home' should be that and not a tool for wealth.
Why isn’t this video going Viral… so many people have been duped by the share ownership scheme.
Additions:
- 06:40 - Total loss would have been £90k including estate agents fees
- It seems some housing associations are different and want a profit split, best to check this with yours and ensure if you make a loss they also split that
- Both the HA and buyer were aware of both figures and knowingly approved it during conveyancing. It was transparently shared
surely any loss is split based on the percentage equity? How can this be any different between HA's when it comes to SO properties?
I wish I found this video years ago. I've bought and sold 2 shared ownership properties and made big losses based on the challenges you shared. You've really highlighted the corruption. Nice job!
@@crypt2732 Also thinking about staircasing but unsure about the process being worthwhile
So let me get this straight, the flat is valuated 575k and you ask for it to be higher so you get to 620k. At this point the property is too expensive to sell as shared ownership so you are allowed to sell on the normal market. Then you go and get a new valuation at 560k (which is cheap enough to sell through shared ownership) yet somehow you are still allowed to sell on the market. How is that even possible?
Surely that lower valuation of the property, which was still 60% owned by the HA at the time, should have been disclosed to the HA thus making the property now affordable and should go back into the shared ownership scheme?
@@markbrookes91 The lower valuation was disclosed to the HA for the purpose of staircasing, it seems in this context that the HA should have the ability to withdraw permission to sell on the open market, not sure if this is something they can do or not?
This completely confused me too. It should be sold under shared ownership given the new, lower valuation. Sounds like a fraud.
Affordability calculations (I don't know how they work it out exactly), meant even at 560k, they would have had to find a buyer with a minimum of £80k but a government cap of £90k so would be very limited to find someone in a 10k salary range, thus they upheld the open market permission for this reason
@@MattBrighton Most affordability calculators show that with the values you described and the house valued at 560k, a salary for 65k would suffice. I still don't understand how you managed this.
me and my wife are looking to sell our shared ownership property, this was so useful, thank you so much for putting this up! SUBSCRIBED
Thank you for this. I'm in a shared ownership house and feel trapped with ever increasing rents on a property that is unsuitable for me as I have difficulty using the stairs. You have given me hope that I may be able to get rid of it and move to something more suitable.
It was awful that my HA kept raising rents without any communication, then services charges escalated, then admin charges went up. Nightmare. Hope you get out of it!
Your trapped in a prison of your own making. Nobody forces folks to buy over priced property
@@MattBrighton Hi matt can you make a video explain this? How much service and rent increase? Please
@@jasbindersingh2441nobody forced you to buy an overpriced property, yes, but in the U.K. every single property is over priced, so you buy overpriced, or you never buy a house
How are you doing a year on? Hope situation has improved
This is an interesting strategy. I work in shared ownership sales and resales, some HA clients are now conducting valuations for resales at their own cost rather than leaving it to the leaseholder. I wouldn’t say something like this would be replicable for the average shared owner but I am happy to hear this worked for you.
When you say "HA Clients", do you mean the HA's? My understanding of the rules is that the SO property owner has the responsibility (and cost) of getting an independent RICS valuation. i.e. the valuation should have nothing to do with the HA or developer. That RICS valuation is then the basis of the equity split upon sale. Are you saying that HA's are doing valuations now?
@@hughgallagher Alot are in the process of changing it meaning you won't be able to benefit. I work for a HA and they are aware of the issue now and changing how valuations work meaning they handle that part with the RICS
Do you know if the HAs are doing similar for staircasing too?
Remind me in a few years
That is fantastic. Being granted open market access is a game changer. Thanks for your video 👍🏽
I wasn't expecting it in the slightest. They do give open market permission if you've been on the market for 8 weeks with no shared ownership sale, lucky that it was priced out of affordability and was given straight away
@@MattBrighton do you have the breakdown of the affordability to be priced out of the shared ownership sale?
@@yazab20 I don't unfortunately - they didn't share how they work it out
@@MattBrighton By doing this you are pricing out a massive amount of affordable housing for people who really need it. I've reported your video to multiple housing associations notifying them of your exploit
Matt you're a genius visionary. Another exceptional video, well done sir.
This is being in the right place at the right time opportunity but amazing work congrats
Minus the, I assume, £1000 per month on rent payments of course....so your 50odd thousand equity (not 107,000 profit) is actually around 20k
I rented out the spare room to lodgers for most of the time I owned the flat at more than the rental price, I didn't include that profit figure, add an extra £40k in rental profit under the government rent a room scheme. first £7.5k a year tax free. Was able to deduct rental costs and bills as expenses via accountant on self assessment.
Good timing on the market. In a falling market I’m guessing this would be much harder.
Definitely harder right now with the way the market is trending
Thank you so much for this video. It could not be more relevant to me currently- stuck in a shared ownership flat, desperately needing to move to get more space. All Housing advice doesnt apply to shared ownership due to the complexity. I’ll be taking your advice here
Have you managed to have any luck with this, if you don't mind me asking?
Please explain how it is possible to submit 2 different valuations to the Housing Association. Meaning, if they have already seen the higher valuation, how come they would also accept to lower one if they make less money?
I wondered the same - they openly said to me that I could submit a different valuation if I wanted to, as long as it's by a RICS surveyor they'll accept it. I did fear they'd reject the lower one after handing in the higher one but they knowingly accepted it because it still meets their conditions of a RICS survey and it's written they have to accept it in the agreement I had with them. They couldn't reject a RICS valuation.
They were good on the £620k example, that's when they said I could submit a lower valuation if I could get one to minimise my losses and they'd accept it, I just don't think they expected me to flip the cards the opposite way round.
£19k to sell a flat , you did so well , you are clearly a very determined man.
Being granted open market access is the main thing here!
is that a new thing with SO? It seems to be something that is not well known at all
This does not work with Clarion/Latimer. They will take their % of any sale above the RICS valuation.
Hi
Anyone have any advice to get open market access?
It just varies between HA and HA - are there any set rules?
I may be only able to do this by getting a very high RICS valuation so nobody would buy it in the nominated period and then they would have to give me open market access.
The question is tho would you go shard ownership again? or full mortgage? which is better, i'm trying to find whats best & just to many cons i might to just live in my car at this point😂
Sharing your experience is so encouraging!
Thanks a lot.
You were just lucky to find a buyer who bought it for 620k. I don't recommend your method to anyone...because most probably you will make a loss when you sell ownership property.
Totally agree - so much luck involved in so many ways to make the scenario work. Lucky the buyer came in at the price they did, lucky their mortgage didn't expire and the sale collapsed, lucky I put in the high valuation first then realised the flaw to submit a lower one.
But this looks so doable too if you was a potential first time shared owner … London is probably going to burst in coming few years i like to think, (anyone else’s opinions are definitely more credible than mine I know 0 about property apart from just trying to rent in London and or buy) so if you was to buy when it’s at its lowest and sell high perhaps if the market was to inflate and or boom again which is likely inevitable?
Spending £620,000 on a flat is insane. In other parts of UK you could buy a 6 bedroom house in an expensive area for that
@@zacstarkey1369 This is why there won't be a property crash. HS2 the newly planned train system will mean London people will abandon the city to get away elsewhere in the UK raising the prices elsewhere.
If you don't own a house in the next few years before it completes you will never own a property. Its going to cause so much societal issues
@@anthonyfaucy2761 “if you don’t own a house in the next few years before it completes you’ll never own property” is an absolutely ridiculous claim. Just shut up.
That deal was a work of art
£620k for a flat on London? Wow I have never understood why it was so expensive. You could get a massive 5 bed detached for 200k cheaper in the Midlands
But you would never get the same substantial and quick return on investment that you get in London. Supply and demand.
no jobs in the midlands
Lol everytime my family and I go pass a Foxtons it looks like a bar....the fridge full of drinks is always the centre piece of the shopfront
Yeah this doesn't always work... we are in London and have had 1 viewing in 7 month, 5 months of that has been on the open market... we've had to drop and we will lose that money, because the RICS surveyors say there isn't enough movement in the market to drop their valuation. You were incredibly lucky. May I ask who your housing association were? Ours do not let you keep everything above the RICS valuation!! It makes me kinda sick they have all these charges when many shared owners have such little equity it would trap them!!
Mine was NHG. Are you L&Q by any chance? I had a viewing with them initially and found them super inflexible, full of red tape and in some ways unfair. Would they split the loss with you if the flat sold less than the RICS valuation? I'm hearing it varies by housing association. Mine expected me to pay the full loss, so would be unreasonable for them to expect anything if a profit was made.
@@MattBrighton I'm with Catalyst! mine expect me to take the full loss, but still want their profits of anything over 🙄 it seems like there's so many loopholes that cost us as shared owners! We're lucky we have equity, but imagine 25% owners who put down the minimum, if that was us we would be trapped and unable to sell as we'd have to pay to leave... pretty despicable 😵💫
Can’t wait to be free of SO! Just hope I don’t become trapped because I can’t afford all the fees with selling. I only own 25% but hoping it might work in my favour being more affordable to someone else 🤞I heard it harder to sell at a higher share value as people would rather buy the property at 100%. And I’m so lucky that my flat has doubled in price 😮
Have you sold at all
So you made/gained £57k, not £110k.
I am trying to go through the same process right now. It is a bit difficult to get information from the HA and many of the real estates agents don't even know about the option of staircasing and selling at the same time.
I had several evaluations from some estate agents and the Foxton's one was the lowest.
I am also concerned about the RICs evaluation. My HA recommends to go for one of one of his pannel professionals which I believe will play against me.
Thanks for the video. It is brilliant :)
Im not a homeowner and never been a fan if shared ownership , but wow this is amazing news thank you .
Please don’t get into shared ownership with this being your exit plan, this is an extraordinary case study.
@@BIG2hats thanks but like i said ive never been a fan of shared ownership therefore i dont plan on getting a shared ownership. I just think it’s amazing news for him and happy he’s shared. Thats all.
I appreciate you sharing your experience 10000%
Hello and thank you for the video. Re: "...the minimum income required for a buyer to afford to purchase the property is in excess of £83000..." (letter from the Local Authority). I wonder how they figured out this number. At relatively standard multiple of 4x, the maximum mortgage would be £332k which for a 40% shared would equate to at least a £830k property (that's assuming a 0% deposit i.e. 332k/40%, whereas with a deposit it would be higher). But your flat's valuation was circa £600k. I wonder whether it could be a mistake that they thought a 40% share would require at least 83K income?
Hi Matt, did you have a cash buyer? My estate agent said this won’t work if I get a buyer that needs a mortgage because they won’t let them go ahead offering more money than the RICS valuation says…. Any thoughts? Thank you
Curiously no reply after 1 year. Although, from the video, the RICS valuations Matt obtained varied from £560,000 to £620,000. The buyer would have obtained their own valuation from their lender. So if the lender's valuer agreed it was worth £620,000 then the deal would proceed.
I’m just buying a share ownership. Love the video, thank for this information. It’s still early days for me but this has given me a lot to think about 👍
Did you buy ur house yet? How did it go? I am looking into it now, I am on 30000 and have 20 deposit. Will i be able to buy shared ownership with that???
That is genius, well done!
This was brilliantly well done
Hi Matt, Just saw your channel yesterday and been watching your great videos and progress. I have a question about this property sale. Why did the housing association let you continue to sell the property on the open market when you came back with a £560k RICS valuation?
I asked the same question (can I still sell
open market at 560k) they said it does fall back within affordability for shared ownership but I think minimum income was about 80k. So to find a buyer they’d need to earn more than 80k but less than 90k which massively limited the pool of buyers so they upheld their open market permission
@@MattBrighton this is more luck than anything, to get it to fall in valuations that it perfectly fit within a certain range. Most shared ownership owners would not be able to pull this off...
@@all-four-inches ^ This 💯
Hi Matt.. would you be willing to do a video on HOLD Shared Ownership and how to overcome the barriers on this. Thanks
Absolutely - I'm totally stuck in this scheme!
Agreed with everything except for the part where you mentioned cost of shared ownership or buying same property outright are similar, in reality shared ownership property cost significantly less because rents via housing association are much less than rent on open market.
Is that true across the board though? Whenever I have looked into buying SO vs BUYING OUTRIGHT, the SO rent + service charge + mortgage was about the same as 100% mortgage.
@@hughgallagher In general Houses/flats sold under the control of HA are lower priced compared to new build market value. They are part of the % the developer needs to provide as affordable rental /sales to the local council.
Hiya. Thanks for video. Really been missing your videos over Christmas. Sue 😀👍
Thanks Susan! Combination of moving home + Christmas, needed a bit of time off
Twinkle toes, sharp on your feet there. good channel this for younger people to watch, I told my 30 year olds to follow this chap in place of asking me.
Glad to hear you’re free of SO
🙌 So glad to be out of it!
This kind of thing would only works in a rising market where you find a buyer willing to come in at a high price. Over the next few years in London, this won't be the case.
This is interesting, i was one of the 5-8% that did staircase to full so im essentially out and let it out overseas now but wouldnt really rec shared ownership although some could argue its better than double charges with htb. Mine was also in the olympic park so some upside just being able to access the area. Rics surveyors seem to just be able to make a lot up, and I also did a valuation challenge to lower a staircase quote but your challenge doesnt have to be accepted by the original surveyor. Headache system all round, wouldnt probably ever buy a flat in london again.
I’d never do shared ownership again if I had the option. Such a nightmare system. And housing associations not set up properly to deal with shared owners. Found the whole thing frustrating from start to finish despite some wins in between
Hi Matt , who are the solicitors you used? Looking for ones with experience of sim sales
One question - how did the housing association let you sell it on the open market with a lower valuation? If you bought it for roughly 560k on shared ownership and the valuation is around the same amount (which they had to accept) how come they did not sell it for shared ownership again?
Would this work when staircasing to 100% too?
The lower evaluation...
I have a question please: How was it that the housing association had to accept the lower valuation but they did not rescind the permission that they had previously granted to sell on the open market? Was that permission not conditional on the valuation price being unaffordable for anyone earning under £90k??? So surely if the lower valuation was accepted, that would then make it affordable for those earning under £90k, and therefore there would be no need for permission to sell on the open market, and therefore they would rescind the permission?
I'm not 100% sure what their calculation was on the lower valuation but they gave me the same reason. It might have been because at the time I bougt the flat I probably fell just within the range for my salary VS share which meant re-selling it is quite hard because I fell in that unique category. But with it being a new build they were open to selling any amount of share dependent on my own finances.
Thanks very much for the video. Did you have a cash buyer? My estate agent said this won’t work if I get a buyer that needs a mortgage because they won’t let them go ahead offering more money than the RICS valuation says…. Any thoughts? Thank you
Which surveyor did you use if you don't mind sharing?
wow - I want to sell my shared ownership flat in 2023 -so this is very helpful thanks you
Was you shared home wit Clarion?
Please can I speak to you about this I really want to know something about this process
Nice work !!
Is it not likly that once you get the new valuation to bring the house down again the housing association will want to sell the house for you as then minimum income requirement will be lower and therefore easier for them to sell making it more beneficial for them? Could we go to all this work for them to then sell it themself causing you to in-fact take a loss?
Brilliant. Well done sir.
Thank you so so much for making this video!!
Love your videos!!!
Hi, really interesting, I was linked this video by a friend. I am currently in a SO property and am looking to try and sell in the next year. The one thing that I don't understand, is why didn't/couldn't the HA remove your permission to sell on the open market when you went back with a lower valuation?
I would have thought with the lower valuation, they would say that falls within shared ownership bands, and would then try to sell the property on to other potential SO buyers?
*edit: Nevermind, I found my answer in other comments 🙏interesting, I'll need to look at this.
If true, very odd that just below £600K was deemed 'unaffordable' for the SO scheme, as there are plenty of London SO flat above that figure - going up to £850K
My flat. You are not allowed to sell at a different price. You have to go with the surveyors valuation. No more no less. You can get another valuation from their named surveyors. Not the ones you find.
How did you get you housing association to accept the lower RICS valuation?
40% of the £57k was already his - so the true bonus was £34k - which the HA should have said we get 60% of the sale subject to us accepting the offer as well
Hi Matt, thanks so much for this video. I had a question about the staircasing bit. Did you buy the actually put cash in to staircase to 100% or no?
Ive been trying to get out of mine for many years its destroying my life cant get no help
Question on paying the stamp duty as a first-time buyer, would you recommend to pay the full market price or the share value which will be free? I am planning to staicase in the future but I was told the stamp duty is not refundable
Hi Matt, how was the last 560k valuation out of affordability if you bought it for more yourself? Or did they just not revoke the open market permission once you gave them the revised lower valuation?
Great video, thank you! Quick question: If the property value decreases, would you pay less for the remaining shares?
If a person is able to haggle with the independent valuer to lower the price, I'm wondering whether this method could be used to reduce the cost of the remaining shares as mentioned above.
Would the property developers, housing association, or mortgage providers own valuers allow this as, from your example, my understanding is that the scheme provider must accept any legitimate RICS Property Valuation?
It would be great to hear your thoughts, and thank you in advance!
When you received the 3rd RICS value of £565k, why did the HA not reassess the sale and deem the flat eligible to be sold under the shared ownership scheme as the buyers would now be under the 90k income threshold as you were when you first purchased?
Wondering the same ^
JUST A QUESTION PLS. CAN ONE BUY SHARED OWNERSHIP IF THEY ARRANGE THE CASH FOR THE 24 OR 40 PERCENT SHARE. I AM FEDUP OF MOVING AROUND WITH CHILDREN AND UNEMPLOYED BUT MY FAMILY IS WILLING TO HELP ME WITH THE MONEY TO BUY UPNORTH
Could you share the name of the rics surveyor that you did the valuation from ?
Matt I have shared ownership flat. I am not clear on ....how did you manage to pay full amount to housing association which was your buyers money ..,to claim full equity?
All the best and good video. In my opinion it is still a good time to invest in different stocks like gold, silver and digital currencies. This is one of the most important skills to learn and everyone should invest instead of saving. Some may agree, some may disagree. My big compliments to Natalie Rose Strayer for improving my portfolio!!......
I'm surprised that you just mentioned Natalie Strayer here also Didn’t know she has been good to so many people too this is wonderful, i'm in my fifth trade with her and it has been super.
The very first time we tried, we invested $2000 and after a week, we received $9500. That really helped us a lot to pay up our bills.
Natalie Strayer has really set the standard for others to follow, we love her here in Canada 🇨🇦 as she has been really helpful and changed lots of life's
This sounds so good and I would like to be a party to it, is there any way I can speak with her?
After I raised up to 125k trading with her I bought a new House and a car here in the states also paid for my son's surgery
Glory to God shalom.
hi @mattbrighton.
Did you get a mortgage on the 100% valuation, or did selling on the same day mean you didnt need the mortgage.
I am actually in the process of the doing the same thing, but have a mortgage off on the 100% as the housing association wont sell to me without seeing the mortgage offer.
Sam
Hey how did this go? And which HA is this
not a loop hole, you have basically shorted your share, nicely done 👍
Which housing association was this, if you care to share? Thanks
Amazing! But I’m wondering why the housing association still gave you the go ahead to sell the house on the open market when the valuation came back lower the second time round ? Was it overlooked or was it not even considered? And you used the dispensation they gave you initially on the higher valuation as the ticket to sell on the open market?
Wow !!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing !!!! A huge congratulations to yourself!!! I am genuinely sooooooooo happy for you !!!! You are smart. Therefore, you deserve this outcome. You must be extremely happy for this !!! I am also own a shared ownership property and want to sell it, and this video is extremely helpful for me. I am so grateful for your videos, as they are very helpful for people like me
Thanks a lot !!! You are an amazing person as you are helping others in life. I hope you will but a new property where you will be happy.
I've reported the exploit to the social housing regulator so chances are you won't benefit lol
had to hit subscribe
Can you teach me how to do this Matt? Im intending on buying my own place this year and shared ownership is likely going to be my strategy.
Umm .... did you calculate how much interest you ve paid aside from the 40 quid you put in?
It’s Monday dip & buying starts tomorrow 🎉
The guidance isn’t poor. Solicitors don’t bother reading the guidance. I recently dealt with a solicitor was using a SDLT form from 2003. Despite me informing them the form had been revised since then. Solicitors are not tax professionals, but they also some can’t be bothered to learn or blame it on back office staff for errors and late penalties.
but why the clickbait-y "£110k" in the title when it's actually £57k from the loophole (as you yourself say at 12:40 )?!
there should be a law against clickbait
Could you elaborate on how you were able to convince the Rics to increase valuation?
Quite simply, by asking
They tend to go in the middle so there’s wiggle room - as long as there’s sold comparable to justify it a case can be made for a price decrease / increase
idk aren’t you open to a claim from the housing association of sale at under value regardless of the sweet talking RICS the transaction registered on LR is far higher?
Agree
Nope - They actively approve the open market sales price (as did the buyers solicitors who could transparently see both sets of figures), all they care about is their share is the RICS valuation price. It's bonkers.
@@MattBrighton Well done, you did well.
Real estate arbitrage - good job, man!
How come the new/lower valuation didn't trigger the affordability recalculation and revoking the right to sell it in open market?
It did - the minimum was £80k, max was £90k on the lower val, but so with it being such a restrictive limit they kept up their open market permission otherwise would have been a nightmare to find a buyer within a £10k salary range - and unfair for them to even try.
Great video. I believe with my housing association they mentioned on the lease that should you wish to sell your shares then it will have to be sold to them first before it can be allowed on the open market should they not able to find a buyer. Also the price will be based upon the RICs surveyor valuation so no room to gain anything there unless it’s higher valued. Also I seem to remember you can only sell the number of shares you own not at 100% unless you completed staircasing.
I couldn't sell just my share, hence using the buyers funds to staircase it first, then instantly sell it to them known as a 'Simultaneous Staircase and Onward Sale Transaction'
@@MattBrighton Hi Matt, Thanks for the video, something of a godsend we are in pretty much exactly the same position and in a similar location as you, we also have an EWS1 form issue but that is another story - Couldn't for the life of me think that the transaction was called so additional thanks for that well
@@dtait3222 did you sell ur share? How u doing?
@@otuzuul77 it's on the open market at the moment it's a bit slow going, We couldn't beat the RICs valuation down very much but should make a bit of extra money when it does eventually sell
@@dtait3222 I see. I am looking to buy SO as I cannot afford the freehold. How long did u stay in ur SO apartment, or when did u buy?? Which HO did u buy from? Good luck with the selling 🙏
You finessed it ser 👍
how did strike make any money on this? did you get shafted on your legal fees?
Your solicitors sound great, would you mind sharing who you used?
It is a loophole and full marks for achieving the results. But it probably isn’t as big a loophole? Because it hinges on the affordability cap which means the property has to be within that price range. A shared ownership flat at 500k is almost certainly not going to be sold on open market, right?
I cannot believe that you bought that flat… next to Windmill Lane!! We were about to buy one of those at street level hahaha
by the end of 3 years did you actually own the 40% of the apartment or was that just the value you paid mortgage for? That would make a big difference. Sorry for the newbie language as I am trying to understand how exactly that loophole works
did you get the valuation organiized or did you select the valuer ?
I think they will likely close this down by simply adding additional restrictions around the valuation process as this where the variables are that do not work their favour.
The HA I deal with only allows valuations from their specific list of surveyors who report only to the HA . You are not allowed to ask a local estate agent and persuade them to value the property at a low value.
Knew most but Not the subsale relief well done sale online best instead of giving money away
How long did thos take to sale?
so you made 57k not 110k
Great video, but i just wanted to ask your valuation of 620K enabled you the right to have your flat be sold on the open market, however this is not usually the case am I right? In addition at the lowest valuation you had the 2nd time around would the HA allowed you to have sold it on the open market?