The Federation: “Gold-pressed latinum can’t be replicated.” Also the Federation: “Here Captain, use these to pay off your debts.” *slides replicated gpl under table*
You can store things other than gold in Fort Knox. It's been used to store the U.S. Constitution, works of art, the crown jewels of a few different allied countries, hell I think they've even stored smallpox samples there at least once. If it's still in use by the 24th century what's actually stored in there is probably classified with the Ferengi breaking in thinking that it has to be something valuable for the Federation to go through all the trouble. Either that or, much like Wall Street in Beta Canon, it's considered a Ferengi Holy Site and they wanted to do something religion related there.
JRPGFan20000 I legitimately thought that Fort Knox had become a tourist attraction using holograms to see if you could break in. You know, a little espionage training for fun, like an escape room.
I have heard a thing about something called “Federation credits” that the Federation had to use for when dealing with monetary-based societies, but my only source for that is from Memory Alpha
Agreed, the Federation has money to do business with all of the non-federation species, but its citizens don't need money to acquire things within the Federation. I do remember the Bolian bank heist spoken about when O'Brien was undercover in the Orion Syndicate.
As Picard stated in First Contact. The economics work differently in the 24th century. While there isn’t money there is still an economy. Because in 300 years humans will not evolve that much (Especially with genetic engineering illegal) a system still need to be in place that people are working for the greater good and not taking in excess.
The Federation doesn't really have "money" or use it internally. That said, they have to account for individuals who do business with those beings which are not members of the Federation. Based upon that, there may be some unit of "credit" which is attributed to Federation citizens monthly or annually which is used for those exchanges. There is also the fact that there is nothing preventing citizens of the Federation from personally acquiring and utilizing the currency of other cultures. For example, Riker apparently wagered and won a fairly considerable sum of "gold pressed latinum" from Quark (off screen) during the Enterprise' visit to DS9 (presumably during the pilot episode : the Emissary) which was referenced later on in the STNG episode: First Born.
I maintain that Q repeatedly challenged and tested humanity because in the distant future, humanity would evolve into the Q thus existing outside of three dimensional space time which would allow them to exist before, during, and after humanity simultaneously while still technically descending from in a causality loop of self creation.
I mean you could argue that it would make sense if Troi went with the away team in order to have a better chance to locate the entity. All it would take is one line of dialog like: "Captain, i might be able to find the alien if could go back to the station." Heck, she could have been the one to figure out, the whole station is the entity, just not how to free it. But... ah well. The road not taken...
There's a lot of situations where one line of dialogue would have completely addressed a big honking plot hole. But as Lore's BSG video demonstrated, TNG is hardly the only series to fall victim to pitch moments of brilliance to the cutting room floor.
I think it's funny how Q was added to the story later on to extend the episode to two episode's worth of running time, thus immensely improving the storyline. If they had tried doing this story without Q, I doubt TNG would have gotten a series order.
Hah, Geordi the only Red shirt ensign to walk away from an away mission and live gets rushed up through the ranks to become the Enterprises chief engineer :)
If I remember rightly they have money for dealing with other races. The crew of DS9 would send the bills from the shops and restaurants to the Federation.
Despite what the canon says, warp drive is more plausible than a civilization arising with no form of internal trade or economics, Crusher referring to some sort of communal account that is settled by use of a replicator there still has to be an accounting of the ships resources. Which would in turn filter down to how much of that each crew member is allocated. Even at it’s most communal there would still be a barter economy within the federation.
personally I always felt the idea of "no money" was just ridiculous not to mention a total pipe dream. fact is there is always going to be a need for some kind of barter, money was invented so those with less things to offer , could still obtain goods they needed. so I don't think money will ever go away and the idea of it doing so in trek verse (for the federation) just felt hammy and dumb to me.
Dianna would keep bloody crying every scene in far point lol...... From what I’ve been able to figure out betazed the planet is colder than than earth as most betazoidd liked colder climates
Picard told that rich guy from the twentieth century that Earth no longer needed money. The guy responded that it wasn't about money, but rather power. I like to think that guy later helped the Federation understand the Feregi. Picard knew nothing of them, but Sisko knew about all the rules of aquisition.
I highly doubt the TNG writers gave any thought to what it would mean for "enlightened humans" to have moved beyond money; they just saw the chance to show future humans were so enlightened. As such, it falls just as flat when observed in the writing as every other "enlighten humans" example. The writers gave no thought to how trade with other societies would work. No thought to how limited resources would be distributed, and there are plenty of limited resources even in the TNG era. Physical goods are still created and shipped, not everything is replicated. Some goods for plot reasons cannot be replicated. Specialists are still limited; the average guy on the street isn't going to get the same medical crew that Picard received for his heart surgery. Honestly, TNG needs "enlightened" humans (those that won't won't show greed or jealousy or laziness or the like) just to make its poorly planned no-money society function.
Agreed. I particularly love the way people offer "barter" as an alternative - one of the reasons humans developed money was to move AWAY from a barter economy (imagine if you worked for Apple and were given 100 iPods a week that you had to barter into rent, food, clothing, etc!). Even if a moneyless (not just cashless) society were possible, the writers tie themselves in knots trying to justify this bit of Roddenberry-esque canon when it comes to trading with other societies (especially the Ferengi). It's also pretty ironic for Gene Roddenberry to advocate a moneyless society when he was after every buck he could get!
Yep, they haven't considered the most pressing question: how do you get people to do what you want, when they aren't interested. Funny how the anti-commerce types don't think about that.
Even the Soviet Union used money. Why wouldn't the Federation have currency available to convince lonely civilizations of their affluence and prosperity?
I heard a theory a long time ago, that the aliens from the pilot, was suppose to be the aliens from the end of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I never put much weight in that theory, but not sure if it is actually true.
I never really take pilots as being 100% canon. That's simply because I consider them more to be a 'proof of concept', especially for these earlier shows where they didn't have everything planned out in the long term. Like with Troi being able to mind-talk with Riker. Or the uniforms. Or the saucer section. It's more of a framework for what will follow. In DS9, Kira was very militant, but that didn't play well, so she was toned down a lot afterwards. And Odo's appearance changed. And if you look at B5, how things changed from the pilot to the following episodes are similar. Delan went from being an old woman with almost space magic items to a young woman. And the idea that a poison would be able to actually impact Kosh was laughable, especially after we learn just how powerful they are. Even the fact that Kosh could be tricked and poisoned is a joke.
In many ways you can’t take Trek as full cannon. As most stories are from the Captains Log. So the events are probably played in the eyes of the captains perspective.
At the 5:50 mark. You say theres know reason for troy to be on planet. But as understand it. The closer to the entity the clear the connection. could be wrong its been a while since I've borthered to watch any trek.
The Ferengi use gold-pressed latinum as currency it wouldn't be beyond the stretch of imagination to assume that in situations in which they have to deal with other races Starfleet would keep some form of currency perhaps something worked out with the Ferengi even perhaps they trade protection and Technology to the Ferengi and in exchange the Ferengi cover their debts externally speaking
Brave of you to start a video with “let’s talk about something boring”! 1:47 notice how Crusher is a Lt. Commander in her early scenes. The rest of the series she is a full Commander (same three pips as Riker). Presumably she went straight to the holodeck after beaming to the Enterprise and ordered Geordi to kill himself... And Crusher paid in red hair dye and ugly child’s clothes... I doubt Picard could comment on anything Ferengi related at this point with any certainty. First Contact wasn’t made with the Ferengi for several episodes, so any mention of them would presumably be based on rumour and/or hearsay from other species that had had contact already. I know the Stargazer was attacked by a Ferengi ship, but did they know that at the time?
This was before the crew reshuffle. Kill off Yar. Worf goes to security and changes from red to gold. Georgi goes from navigation to engineering and goes from red to gold. Wesley becomes acting ensign, blah, blah, blah. It was Roddenberry's idea of a joke that a blind man be the navigator, but it really didn't add anything to the character. The new show needed a "Scotty" to keep the holodeck from taking over the ship or breaching the warp core on an episode to episode basis.
Is there any chance you will ever delve into any of the books? No small feat but I'm reading the titan books and it's nice to go new places after watching all the episodes of every trek show.
I like seeing a new modern fresh perspective on a TV series that I watched when it first came out (46 now getting ancient) and have seen many times now and have always enjoyed especially as a teenager as at the time this was first broadcast it was revolutionary as most TV sci shows in the late 80s and early 90s were lame as f♤♧k ( nothing has changed then), I always just watch it without thinking and enjoy it for what it was a brief 50 mins or so of pure old fashioned escapism away from shitty depressing grind of daily existence!👍🏼
@@professorbrainyspecs7366 : As I recall, the saucer warp drive is actually _part_ of the impulse drive. It's how the saucer is supposed to escape to safety in case of battle, as well as being used to improve the sub-light performance of the impulse drive itself. So, it has a warp drive, just not a great one.
I like your videos very much but I think here you go very hard with TNG in the court. It was the first episode of a completely new series! The actors had to get into their roles first and they were still trying out what would prove themselves. To present all this now retroactively as a logic error I do not think is ok. The series still had a lot to learn at this point to reach the high level that distinguished the later seasons, but I think that's understandable! There is hardly a format in TV that was absolutely fantastic from the beginning and the formats that were mostly models on which they could orientthemselves. Could TNG do that? There was TOS! But what worked in the sixties can only serve as a rough guideline for a series of late eighties. Much of what you now consider to be established was only introduced by TNG. I think you should take that into account more.
In hindsight, what is happening on Farpoint Station it should not seem so odd as it is portrayed. They already have matter replication technology and on encountering this new people should not be that surprised, for the era, of replications of things, from building supplies to apples, only surprised at the speed and almost wish for and it is there ability of the replicator. So, basically, they have an organic replicator, they already have a non organic sentient as crew, so should not find things as odd as they do. It is not until the second being arrives that they could possibly have some clue as to what was going on. Even Diana feeling a creature's pain could be attributed to the replication activities of the organic replicator. in my opinion. Thus, the test of the Q, if that was anything more than another of Q's whims, flights of fancy, or games, not only broke it's own rules, but didn't really make sense to begin with.
Never liked troi, now jadzea dax she was the complete star trek lady not just eye candy but a interesting and complex character even after jadzea died and was replaced by ezri.
You can choose to 'not use money' but when others continue to use money, you've pretty much written yourself out of any potential deal going. It's just a stupid and naive to think trade in the future no longer has value, lol. It's like saying, "In the future, there is only left and no right....." - on your own,. buddy xD
Have a nice day Lore. For whatever it's worth (maybe nothing), you've just lost a loyal viewer for giving credibility to that insidious self righteous troll (steve shives). Unsubscribed. 👎
Hey... we all have our breaking points. Though you werent going to be a 'loyal' fan for long given my view on what i platform and dont. But I appreciate the feedback and wish you well.
The Federation: “Gold-pressed latinum can’t be replicated.”
Also the Federation: “Here Captain, use these to pay off your debts.” *slides replicated gpl under table*
You can store things other than gold in Fort Knox. It's been used to store the U.S. Constitution, works of art, the crown jewels of a few different allied countries, hell I think they've even stored smallpox samples there at least once. If it's still in use by the 24th century what's actually stored in there is probably classified with the Ferengi breaking in thinking that it has to be something valuable for the Federation to go through all the trouble. Either that or, much like Wall Street in Beta Canon, it's considered a Ferengi Holy Site and they wanted to do something religion related there.
JRPGFan20000
I legitimately thought that Fort Knox had become a tourist attraction using holograms to see if you could break in. You know, a little espionage training for fun, like an escape room.
I have heard a thing about something called “Federation credits” that the Federation had to use for when dealing with monetary-based societies, but my only source for that is from Memory Alpha
Thought the answer was "The Federation has money Earth doesn't"- we know about The Bank of Bolarus so we can assume Bolians still does.
Agreed, the Federation has money to do business with all of the non-federation species, but its citizens don't need money to acquire things within the Federation. I do remember the Bolian bank heist spoken about when O'Brien was undercover in the Orion Syndicate.
As Picard stated in First Contact. The economics work differently in the 24th century. While there isn’t money there is still an economy. Because in 300 years humans will not evolve that much (Especially with genetic engineering illegal) a system still need to be in place that people are working for the greater good and not taking in excess.
The Federation doesn't really have "money" or use it internally. That said, they have to account for individuals who do business with those beings which are not members of the Federation. Based upon that, there may be some unit of "credit" which is attributed to Federation citizens monthly or annually which is used for those exchanges.
There is also the fact that there is nothing preventing citizens of the Federation from personally acquiring and utilizing the currency of other cultures. For example, Riker apparently wagered and won a fairly considerable sum of "gold pressed latinum" from Quark (off screen) during the Enterprise' visit to DS9 (presumably during the pilot episode : the Emissary) which was referenced later on in the STNG episode: First Born.
I maintain that Q repeatedly challenged and tested humanity because in the distant future, humanity would evolve into the Q thus existing outside of three dimensional space time which would allow them to exist before, during, and after humanity simultaneously while still technically descending from in a causality loop of self creation.
I mean you could argue that it would make sense if Troi went with the away team in order to have a better chance to locate the entity. All it would take is one line of dialog like: "Captain, i might be able to find the alien if could go back to the station."
Heck, she could have been the one to figure out, the whole station is the entity, just not how to free it.
But... ah well. The road not taken...
There's a lot of situations where one line of dialogue would have completely addressed a big honking plot hole. But as Lore's BSG video demonstrated, TNG is hardly the only series to fall victim to pitch moments of brilliance to the cutting room floor.
I think it's funny how Q was added to the story later on to extend the episode to two episode's worth of running time, thus immensely improving the storyline.
If they had tried doing this story without Q, I doubt TNG would have gotten a series order.
Hah, Geordi the only Red shirt ensign to walk away from an away mission and live gets rushed up through the ranks to become the Enterprises chief engineer :)
If I remember rightly they have money for dealing with other races. The crew of DS9 would send the bills from the shops and restaurants to the Federation.
money means nothing to Starfleet when you can counterfeit all the money in the univers
Except Latnium.
@@lilsesshy Ferengi are Anarcho-Capitalists and they're doing just fine it seems.
It is almost as if money is a useful tool for trading value for value between people who do not know each other very well.
Diana went with the away team because...
idk...
Legs?
Cheerleader
She does have some nice legs
The whole bit talking about how thirsty Troi was, I'm just thinking "Explain a show's plot poorly"
I can think of one reason for Deanna to be there... psychic bloodhound.
I'm going to name those 2 weird space creatures Jack and Rose.
theirs is the greatest love story of the 24th century
Despite what the canon says, warp drive is more plausible than a civilization arising with no form of internal trade or economics, Crusher referring to some sort of communal account that is settled by use of a replicator there still has to be an accounting of the ships resources. Which would in turn filter down to how much of that each crew member is allocated. Even at it’s most communal there would still be a barter economy within the federation.
5:00 the Ferengi were originally supposed to be the new big bad. Evil cannibalistic telepaths if I recall correctly
forgottentrek.com/creating-the-ferengi/
With massive codpieces if you can picture that.
I've been thinking about Picard's jab at Q's military uniform & perhaps he was jabbing at Q's use of a Army/Marine Dress Uniform.
personally I always felt the idea of "no money" was just ridiculous not to mention a total pipe dream. fact is there is always going to be a need for some kind of barter, money was invented so those with less things to offer , could still obtain goods they needed. so I don't think money will ever go away and the idea of it doing so in trek verse (for the federation) just felt hammy and dumb to me.
Deanna wanted some Riker 😆
with nuts.
T'pol was way thirstier than any character during her early pon far in the decontamination room with dr flox lol
Dianna would keep bloody crying every scene in far point lol......
From what I’ve been able to figure out betazed the planet is colder than than earth as most betazoidd liked colder climates
Haven't you seen it the saucer section has a warp drive it's just a little smaller then the main engine room
I gotta know what you think Qs purpose was . Great video again.
Picard told that rich guy from the twentieth century that Earth no longer needed money. The guy responded that it wasn't about money, but rather power. I like to think that guy later helped the Federation understand the Feregi. Picard knew nothing of them, but Sisko knew about all the rules of aquisition.
They had to show off her outfit
I want some of that space magic
Thirsty!
I highly doubt the TNG writers gave any thought to what it would mean for "enlightened humans" to have moved beyond money; they just saw the chance to show future humans were so enlightened. As such, it falls just as flat when observed in the writing as every other "enlighten humans" example.
The writers gave no thought to how trade with other societies would work. No thought to how limited resources would be distributed, and there are plenty of limited resources even in the TNG era. Physical goods are still created and shipped, not everything is replicated. Some goods for plot reasons cannot be replicated. Specialists are still limited; the average guy on the street isn't going to get the same medical crew that Picard received for his heart surgery. Honestly, TNG needs "enlightened" humans (those that won't won't show greed or jealousy or laziness or the like) just to make its poorly planned no-money society function.
Agreed. I particularly love the way people offer "barter" as an alternative - one of the reasons humans developed money was to move AWAY from a barter economy (imagine if you worked for Apple and were given 100 iPods a week that you had to barter into rent, food, clothing, etc!). Even if a moneyless (not just cashless) society were possible, the writers tie themselves in knots trying to justify this bit of Roddenberry-esque canon when it comes to trading with other societies (especially the Ferengi). It's also pretty ironic for Gene Roddenberry to advocate a moneyless society when he was after every buck he could get!
Yep, they haven't considered the most pressing question: how do you get people to do what you want, when they aren't interested. Funny how the anti-commerce types don't think about that.
From what I have been told the Pilot was actually worse than it ended up being.
Even the Soviet Union used money. Why wouldn't the Federation have currency available to convince lonely civilizations of their affluence and prosperity?
Because they have space magic, aka replicators. I can create (almost) whatever I need with raw matter and energy...me am affluent.
Q gave better tests when he faced off against small horses.
I heard a theory a long time ago, that the aliens from the pilot, was suppose to be the aliens from the end of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I never put much weight in that theory, but not sure if it is actually true.
vine1313 I’m a bit intrigued but I don’t get it
@@professorbrainyspecs7366 yes, I heard that years ago, they were the aliens at far point. I think it was in one of the specials, but I can't be sure.
I never really take pilots as being 100% canon. That's simply because I consider them more to be a 'proof of concept', especially for these earlier shows where they didn't have everything planned out in the long term. Like with Troi being able to mind-talk with Riker. Or the uniforms. Or the saucer section. It's more of a framework for what will follow.
In DS9, Kira was very militant, but that didn't play well, so she was toned down a lot afterwards. And Odo's appearance changed.
And if you look at B5, how things changed from the pilot to the following episodes are similar. Delan went from being an old woman with almost space magic items to a young woman. And the idea that a poison would be able to actually impact Kosh was laughable, especially after we learn just how powerful they are. Even the fact that Kosh could be tricked and poisoned is a joke.
In many ways you can’t take Trek as full cannon. As most stories are from the Captains Log. So the events are probably played in the eyes of the captains perspective.
Deanna is just eye candy with that dress
At the 5:50 mark. You say theres know reason for troy to be on planet. But as understand it. The closer to the entity the clear the connection. could be wrong its been a while since I've borthered to watch any trek.
But, but... they held tentacle-things at the end!
Thumbed up and liked it!
01:15, Riker looks ready to bang.
You're wrong! (Well, not really but I was honoring your request) 😉
Everone is Q.
The Ferengi use gold-pressed latinum as currency it wouldn't be beyond the stretch of imagination to assume that in situations in which they have to deal with other races Starfleet would keep some form of currency perhaps something worked out with the Ferengi even perhaps they trade protection and Technology to the Ferengi and in exchange the Ferengi cover their debts externally speaking
Space magic? The force?😂😂😂
Brave of you to start a video with “let’s talk about something boring”!
1:47 notice how Crusher is a Lt. Commander in her early scenes. The rest of the series she is a full Commander (same three pips as Riker). Presumably she went straight to the holodeck after beaming to the Enterprise and ordered Geordi to kill himself...
And Crusher paid in red hair dye and ugly child’s clothes...
I doubt Picard could comment on anything Ferengi related at this point with any certainty. First Contact wasn’t made with the Ferengi for several episodes, so any mention of them would presumably be based on rumour and/or hearsay from other species that had had contact already. I know the Stargazer was attacked by a Ferengi ship, but did they know that at the time?
Inde tiger Haha he got her rank wrong the one and only time in the first 5 and a half years of the show that she actually wore her rank!?
Does Geordi know he is wearing red?
rurrjh, Maybe he is colour blind?
@@paladinboyd1228 As well?
rurrjh, Wouldn’t surprise me.
This was before the crew reshuffle. Kill off Yar. Worf goes to security and changes from red to gold. Georgi goes from navigation to engineering and goes from red to gold. Wesley becomes acting ensign, blah, blah, blah. It was Roddenberry's idea of a joke that a blind man be the navigator, but it really didn't add anything to the character. The new show needed a "Scotty" to keep the holodeck from taking over the ship or breaching the warp core on an episode to episode basis.
Is there any chance you will ever delve into any of the books? No small feat but I'm reading the titan books and it's nice to go new places after watching all the episodes of every trek show.
I don't use physical money they use credit
Thanks for your reveiw of the ds9 documentary and abso-fuckin-lutely garak isn't gay and ira was being a knob
Hey, love your vids. Is there any BSG related content in the Works? I've just finished the series and I'm kind of obsessed at the moment lol
I like seeing a new modern fresh perspective on a TV series that I watched when it first came out (46 now getting ancient) and have seen many times now and have always enjoyed especially as a teenager as at the time this was first broadcast it was revolutionary as most TV sci shows in the late 80s and early 90s were lame as f♤♧k ( nothing has changed then), I always just watch it without thinking and enjoy it for what it was a brief 50 mins or so of pure old fashioned escapism away from shitty depressing grind of daily existence!👍🏼
The saucer section can go warp 5
Space magic.
Done when they were fighting the learning probes. Often it went warp after separating.
@@professorbrainyspecs7366 : As I recall, the saucer warp drive is actually _part_ of the impulse drive. It's how the saucer is supposed to escape to safety in case of battle, as well as being used to improve the sub-light performance of the impulse drive itself.
So, it has a warp drive, just not a great one.
I like your videos very much but I think here you go very hard with TNG in the court. It was the first episode of a completely new series! The actors had to get into their roles first and they were still trying out what would prove themselves. To present all this now retroactively as a logic error I do not think is ok. The series still had a lot to learn at this point to reach the high level that distinguished the later seasons, but I think that's understandable! There is hardly a format in TV that was absolutely fantastic from the beginning and the formats that were mostly models on which they could orientthemselves. Could TNG do that? There was TOS! But what worked in the sixties can only serve as a rough guideline for a series of late eighties. Much of what you now consider to be established was only introduced by TNG. I think you should take that into account more.
In hindsight, what is happening on Farpoint Station it should not seem so odd as it is portrayed. They already have matter replication technology and on encountering this new people should not be that surprised, for the era, of replications of things, from building supplies to apples, only surprised at the speed and almost wish for and it is there ability of the replicator. So, basically, they have an organic replicator, they already have a non organic sentient as crew, so should not find things as odd as they do. It is not until the second being arrives that they could possibly have some clue as to what was going on. Even Diana feeling a creature's pain could be attributed to the replication activities of the organic replicator. in my opinion. Thus, the test of the Q, if that was anything more than another of Q's whims, flights of fancy, or games, not only broke it's own rules, but didn't really make sense to begin with.
@@indetigersscifireview4360 rather what I thought. Actually, Q's original web to capture the ship I thought was a Tholian rather than Q...
the first 2 episodes of TNG only gave us a new crew, a new ship, Q, and a remake of one of the worst TOS episodes.
What is the episode?
@@leonsantana3646 the second episode of TNG (The Naked Now) was a remake of the TOS episode The Naked Time
Early TNG is such a mess of lore. This series is gonna be good.
Bruv 😂 space magic
Never liked troi, now jadzea dax she was the complete star trek lady not just eye candy but a interesting and complex character even after jadzea died and was replaced by ezri.
Hey there friend! I hope you’re having a good day. If not, stay strong. You’re not alone. Jesus Christ be with you friend!😊
You can choose to 'not use money' but when others continue to use money, you've pretty much written yourself out of any potential deal going. It's just a stupid and naive to think trade in the future no longer has value, lol. It's like saying, "In the future, there is only left and no right....." - on your own,. buddy xD
ua-cam.com/video/afhMMcAHlKw/v-deo.html what I was talking about.
Have a nice day Lore. For whatever it's worth (maybe nothing), you've just lost a loyal viewer for giving credibility to that insidious self righteous troll (steve shives). Unsubscribed. 👎
Hey... we all have our breaking points. Though you werent going to be a 'loyal' fan for long given my view on what i platform and dont. But I appreciate the feedback and wish you well.
Dude I like your channel and watch almost every one of your uploads but you should get rid of that intro sequence.