The 4x4x8 cord of wood came from how it was measured in 1610. It was measured with an 8 foot cord of rope. The first measurement was over the top and down the side. The second measurement was the length.
I applaud your cordial attempt to open up a civil discord on this subject. Accordingly I have recorded my approval by liking, commenting and subscribing.
This brings back memories of when I first started cutting firewood. I was about 16 and everyone around here had fireplaces so we cut our wood 24 inches long. I remember selling one person a cord of wood and he had been buying face cords. Next thing I knew there were about 12 more people calling me wanting wood. Best free advertising I ever saw. Anyway love you video.
Delivered fire wood when I was a kid. We always stacked the splits in the dump truck so as to not have any issues upon delivery. One delivery ordered 10 cord so we brought out the small and big dump trucks. First load was the small truck and he thanked us for the delivery handing us the check. I told him I’ll be right back with his next load=big truck. He was flabbergasted! For years He had been buying firewood from another supplier not knowing what 10 cord actually was. So he hired us to stack what fit in his shed and bring some pallets and tarp to dry store the rest.
Throw in"Rick" and "face cord" for units of measurement. That will really throw them for a loop. The key is tightly stacked ! Been selling firewood for 45 years. You're 100% correct. Really like to see the Californians moving to my area and selling loosely loaded piles of approximately X amount of wood.
What I like about your channel is that you provide what has basically become obsolete in todays world…… common sense! At the present rate common sense will be nonexistent in a generation or two……
Common sense is not obsolete……it’s endangered. Obsolete doesn’t mean what you think it does, it would seem. Common sense is most definitely still useful and applicable in today’s world, meaning it’s not obsolete at all.
I learned how to calculate the 'stacked cordwood' volume of a tree, a few years ago. Measure the volume of a firewood tree (in cubic feet) and multiply by 1.25 to get the predicted volume of the split and stacked wood. Divide by 128 and you have come up with the volume in cords. This allows for the fact that some of your stack is air spaces.
I'm sure I could Google it but I figured I would ask what measurements do I need to find out the volume of a standing firewood tree? Of course it would be an estimate but it would be nice to be able to get a base measurement and estimate a length and come up with a rough amount
This is all dependant on a data point referred to as form class, that assigns each site or stand a numerical average volume for diameter. Tree stands differ in composition due to all sorts of factors, including soil, environment, and stocking levels.
I'm 68 years old and I didn't know this. I was always told 4 4 8. Thanks for teaching me the right way. Not that I'm going to cut any more wood. 😂 I enjoy learning.
I'm so glad that you clarified about how much firewood that it takes to make a cord. 128 cubic ft. is the magic number I understand now. So no matter how I "stack "it, my measurements should come out to 128 cubic ft. I never new this because people always have their own ideas about this. Yours is substantially based upon a number which is 128 cubic ft. Thanks for sharing!
@@SteveLeingang-q3o fairly tightly stacked. My full-sized 88 GMC Sierra will hold a half-cord stacked, but only about a face-cord loosely tossed and slightly rounded.
If people are stubborn about a cord being 4x4x8 is simply because they can't abstract them away from that formula and they clearly struggle with math. They don't care about the real volume, only about the form.
Ha, ha, ha, ha. Great video. Thank you. A cord of wood is like a yard of concrete. 1 yd of concrete = 27 CF, it doesn’t matter if it’s 3x3x3’ or 243 SF 4” thick.
Of course its 128 cu ft, when stacked. We used to say no matter how you stacked it. So the guy shows in his truck, dumps the wood, and you stack it, normally around here, if you thought it shy, you called them back and they were nice enough to bring a little more. And they wanted your business.
Hey Mr Wilson Great video. Made me chuckle. lol like 3 sticks of wood end to end 16+16+16 = lol. However, I do like the way its stacked. 6 rows 6 cord. Easy peazy
I like to go to extremes sometimes for the sake of clarity, just to get someone to understand the basis of the idea. For example, you could have 128 perfect 1 foot by 1 foot by 1 foot cubes of wood, stacked up on top of each other or lined up in a single row and it's still a cord. Cord is a standard volumetric measurement, plain and simple. No matter what shape your pile is.
You are correct , true math is incapable of lying. Some folks don't comprehend math to the 3rd degree. Second degree represents AREA, third degree represents CUBIC AREA. To say a cord of wood not stacked 4x4x8 is not a cord is like saying four quarts of water isn't the equivalent of a gallon.
My father and I cut firewood at the ranch in Montana in the winter time for forty years, pine and fir that we sold by the cord (128 cubic feet). Same with my uncle, on the next ranch, up the creek. Once in a great while, someone would argue that the 3/4 ton truck with extra high sides that we used to deliver wood couldn't possibly hole a cord of firewood. It happened. My response: "If you don't want it, I've got two other families waiting on wood today, and I'll be happy to move on down the road." I never had to just drive off.
On the other hand, I've seen too many jerks pull up in a 1/2 ton with no racks and claiming their load was a cord. Selling short cords and passing them as cords is illegal in many places, and I've turned cons in for it. One tried to claim it was just a pile, thrown out of the back of his pickup.
I was always told that a gap in the pile could be big enough for a rabbit to go through as long as the fox couldn't go through after him. But those are East coast rules, maybe things are different on the West coast.🙂
Here on the West coast, I was always told to make gaps big enough for a mouse to go through, but small enough that a cat can't follow.....pretty close to East coast rules...
@@BrettCraft I appreciate your comment. I retired a few years ago, and sold my businesses. Felling trees is a young man's game, and not some old guy's with multiple back injuries. I recently moved into the mountains of Washington state. I've been noticing trees that are threatening my cabin, and access road. Who knows? Maybe I'll get out the 044 or the 395 and try to turn back the clock....
Dad started using wood instead of diesel in 1976. Diesel went UP TO 9 CENTS a gallon and he was mad enough to yank the furnace out and build a big wood stove. We hauled wood in the 69 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4. We had cab high side racks and went all the way to the back of the 8 foot bed, even leaving tailgate open sometimes. The first couple rear rims that literally split open from the weight should have been a wakeup call. 700-16 on old narrow car rims from the 40's failed often. Dad was one to get the most of everything. He never measured by the cord, but the "pickup load". We learned a lot from him except the hearing difference between WHOA and GO when skidding tamarack logs.
From what I understand it was 4’ unsplit lengths 4’ high and 8’ long. That volume is way more wood if you split it. It was an easy way to measure your woodcutters piecework. It is a lot easier to hand load 4’ lengths on a sled or cart between stakes to get them to the yard
No, when you split it it's still the same amount of wood, but it takes up less space because there is less space between pieces. So a 4x4x8 stack of unsplit lengths would be less than 128 cu ft when cut, split & stacked tightly
@ the first definition of a cord I found specified tight parallel packed unsplit 4’ lengths measured with a cord. Obviously if you measure the same volume cut and split you’d get more fuel. With the advent of heavy machinery unprocessed firewood stopped being in 4’ lengths. Not you’d get a flatbed of poles. Firewood should probably sold by moisture content, species, and weight.
Here’s a good one, started selling firewood a while back , after releasing I always have a bunch of log lengths from clearing land to do our excavation site work . New customer contacts me for 1 cord of wood delivered, I load the generously large cord of wood into my f450 dump truck with large side boards . Customer says “hey so are you coming back today with the other 2 loads of wood “ Long story short the last person to sell her a cord of wood delivered in a pick up truck … so he did multiple loads Once I explained, measured , stacked etc. she was still eager to make an issue , “well my sister said the air gaps take up 1/4 of the 128cubic feet … Then was still not convinced any 350/450/550 could possibly carry an entire cord 😂😂 funny part is the house had 3 chimneys , 3 fire places and was gigantic, exotic cars in the drive way … never had a customer fight so hard to get some extra free wood I will not being selling wood to her any longer and will let the next guy deal with it .
It would be interesting to see is you took your 1 cord stack of 4 x 24 x 1.33 and re-stacked it into a 4x4x8' cord to see if you would have fewer pieces of wood. I think your stack is probably tighter than the customary cord measurement therefore have a few more pieces of wood.
This corresponds very well to the volume of a cord of wood in France, mesured by the "stère" or one cubic meter of split wood, usally cut into 50 cm lengths, with the cord amount usually coming out to 3 and 1/3 stères. Mr.Wilson's stack comes out to almost 3 and 1/2 stères, so that's a generous cord going by French standards!
Here in metric land (Sweden) firewood is sold in cubic meters, either piled or stacked. I have seen a few stores selling smaller amounts in bags measured either in liters or by mass/weight in kilograms too (I hope it is properly dry then...). Having a special unit for it seems like a very archaic thing to do, like the boardfeet you seem to be selling (woodworking) lumber in.
Dry or not, archaic is the way to go if you're trying to compare the mass of say, poplar to oak, or even black locust. Sure, we could do a metric conversion and use meters, but if you're really trading firewood by mass/weight, there be dragons.
@pettere8429 Oh, yeah, like I said, conversions to meters would be fine. It would require some adjustment in thinking, but sure... It's the mass/weight thing where I would have difficulty engaging. There's just too much difference between the density of hard woods to make it practical. I admit, though, that this is a luxury that I enjoy from living in the Eastern U.S. On the subject of cords VS. cu. meters/yards, even cu. ft. ... yeah, cords/face cords represent the ingrained cultural description of firewood that is entrenched here in N. America. It would require a c-change in thinking. And... because home-heating with wood is outside the norm of everyday life in N. America, there's no pressure or incentive to change. In fact, belonging to the 'group' and learning the lingo is exactly one of the cultural forces that keep it entreched.
I was taught 46 years ago, old school, to first stack a cord 4 foot x 4 foot x 8 foot. Then get the boss to confirm and remeasure. THEN toss that cord of wood onto the back of a chip body dump truck. THEN, take a can of spray paint and trace the top and side lines of the pile where it rested against the walls. Then every time after that, when I needed to load a cord of wood, I could just pitch wood off of a wood pile onto the truck until it got up to the painted line and THAT would always be a cord.
Buying firewood was sometimes the only option. And I didn't think I was getting my money worth. I had heard your formula for a cord. But I had been told by an older builder a cord was actually 48" wide and 52" tall by eight feet. Of course you could calculate it from different dimensions.
I use to help my brother with his firewood business but our cords were 8x8x2 that is 8 foot long logs stacked 2 feet high and on a 8 foot long flatbed. Two foot high was about as high as I could lift the logs by hand on my side. So yes that = a cord of wood.
All official standards define a cord of wood as being 128 cubic feet, not necessarily 4'x4'x8'. I cut firewood for at least 20 years, and I gained most of my knowledge from a old firewood cutter who did it commercially for 60+ years. He never sold a "cord" of firewood. He said that was an easy way to get into legal problems with the same morons you describe. He sold wood by the "LOAD". He put a price on the LOAD and you could take it or leave it! I knew him well and I doubt anyone ever questioned his integrity. He had looked down the barrel of a gun at many people, and had pulled the trigger on a few. He was a true pioneer by every sense of the word. Ironically he died from a fall in his shower when he was 90.
Dang it, there’s going to come a time in the not to distant future where I’m going to need the loosely stacked number of 190 and I’m not only going to not remember it, I’m going to forget which video you mentioned it on! 🤦🏻♂️ That was excellent information to store away however 👍🏼
I agree I'm from upper Michigan now live in Arkansas and I hear the same thing all the time that if you have three Ricks is equal to a cord a Rick is supposed to be 16 ft by 8 ft by 4 ft High or face cord which is 24 inches wide 8 ft long and 4 ft High It Takes Two Face chords to make a cord but somehow people just don't understand that
I have pondered... I hope you will too. A cord is a cord. "They are right' 4X4X8 but they dont even know why..... The measure of a cord of wood comes from steam boat days when boilers took 4 foot long pieces of wood. ANYONE could measure a single four foot piece of wood and from that single piece then measure twice its length thus measuring 4 by 4 by 8. When the wood was picked up it was quickly and easily measured with the very wood that was laying there. You left the stack of wood any where it could be seen from the river and the boats would stop, pick it up and leave you the money... the steam boats came on schedules give or take and thus you knew about when to look for your money. They burned more wood than a forest fire so the demand was endless. This was common practice on the Colombia and the Kootenay rivers Worth noting the wood had to be debarked. It was common to pound the length of a green tree with a sledge hammer to looses the bark so it could be stripped. A good job for any man that was made of mostly metal. Alas you are right also... 4 by 4 by 8 measure 128 cu feet of wood.. but no steam boat is going to buy it as it is NOT A CORD. Read what I wrote with the same attitude you put in your video and you should be amused... education can be fun.
Maryland has a legal definition of a cord for firewood. The Maryland legal definition is that is fills a standard half-cord cage (which is 4'x4'x4') twice when filled by tossing (not tightly stacked or fitted). I once had a dispute with a firewood delivery service there; the state trooper came out and to my house, set up the folding cage, and filled it twice. Now I live in Louisiana, where the "cord" has no legal definition.
54 years ago when I was 20 I was told by the "old timers" to stack a cord of wood properly you stacked it loose / tight enough that a squirrel could run through it but not the cat chasing it.
As my gramps used to say, "Some people would complain if you hanged them with a new rope." (the reason being that new rope has more stretch.) 😅 As to the measurement of a cord, I never cared a lick. The woodshed just had to be filled and it always seemed endless when I was a kid, because I was always appointed the one to stack the wood and fill it. It had to be tight too, so tight a mouse couldn't crawl through it, or I was made to do it over. If you decide to make a pig trebuchet, let me know, I'd love to see pigs fly. 😅
When I was in my teen I was told the one row method and the 4x4x8 method. In a perfect world wood cut to 16 inch would stack 3 rows wide in a 4x4x8 cord. That equals 16"x4x24. Only reason I was taught that was because every time I got in trouble I had to hand split and stack a cord. Lol
After being in the cedar shake bolts for shakes on public roofs I got very good at scaling how many feet in a stack of wood. Using the number eight for my denominator, as in eight times one is .... lets do it in numbers 8 X 1= .08, 8x2=.16, 8x3=.24 and so on. as in say 8x6=.48 or one half of a foot.... so in first example I rounded up .24 to .25, and the second half of this 8x6= .50. You can do this with every inch as in 8x11= .88 in the third quarter of four quarters of a foot. I hope you take the time to do what I showed you here. Take 8x9= .72, round it up three points on it to make it .75 or three quarters of a foot... See when guys are getting paid for how much they produce, they can't wait till they have a full cord of cedar blocks to get paid. Using this formula is making it able to stack any size pile of wood up and get a good average on height and width, and length = how much your cutter is getting paid on. I do truly hope you take the time to figure out how this works
@@robertlivingston1634Yes, well, actually, a face cord can be any length IF pre-arranged by the customer, in my opinion. A 12" face would be 32 cu. ft., but still a face. If length is NOT mentioned, he should expect to get 42-2/3 cu. ft. in some form or other.
I remedied this problem with ease. I built a trailer 6 foot by 10 foot and the sides being 2 foot tall for 120 cubic feet and then stacked some over for the other 8 feet. Usually 15-20 cubic feet over. We would get the buyer to accept the load and pay before we would start to unload. Anything different from that we climb in the truck and adios.
I would assume that when Ulysses Grant made a living selling firewood before entering politics and becoming president, a wagon load of firewood was roughly 4x4x8. Depending on the size of the wagon of course. I have great respect for the old timers with their "misery whips, buck saw and axes. I try to pay homage to these great woodsmen and split everything with a maul and axe. I love the work and exercise.
My shed area was 17' long. But stacking 16" pieces to 6' gives a cord per row. Same with 5'x20' with the rows that are now kept outside, though 6'x17' works better with the tarps.. The bigger problem is when a friend or tree service cuts the wood, and it's not 16". But often free wood, especially if it is delivered, is worth it. Sometimes it isn't, if wonky cut pieces don't work well with hand splitting or in the splitter. But worst case, recutting a 22" piece with 2 angled ends at least gives one flat end, even if the 11" result doesn't mesh well with my 16" target.
Numbers don't lie Mike, some people just are not good at math and you need to accept they never will be. There are probably a dozen ways to stack a cord of wood which are all correct as long as they add up to 128 cubic feet
In addition to a stacked cord = 128 cubic feet Maine has a legally defined not stacked measure called a loose cord. 180 cubic feet for 12" to 16" logs or 195 cubic feet for 24" logs. Any other places use these 2 definitions?
There could be a geography language barrier, in Michigan we call a field cord(fuel cord) 4x4x8 or 128 square is used on the woodlot by wholesalers , a face cord (firewood cord) is 4x8x length or the face of the cord, also some stackers call that a Rick or a rake. So you would be disappointed trying to buy a "cord of firewood" here. LoL
Of course 128 Sq. Ft. Is a cord of wood. I bought 10 cords at a time in 12 ft lengths for years and no one jumped out out the truck and chucked them up into 4 X 4 X 8 stacks!! There is a definite description of a cord of wood and it relates to board ft plus but I get lost trying to get it. Cheers 🇨🇦
You should do a video instructing people on how to buy cordwood. There are a lot of people out there selling firewood who either intentionally or unintentionally will rip you off. First thing you need to do is stack and measure to see how close to a true cord you bought. Almost all sellers load wood into the truck with a bucket, and how they guess how many buckets makes a cord differs significantly. In the end it’s a guess. Stack and measure to verify. Second, look at the pieces being delivered. Are they all the same length? If not, it is going to be very difficult to stack and measure. Third, are the pieces straight, or is it lots of crotch wood. Did they trim the branches flush with the trunk or ate there branch nubs sticking out. If the pieces are not straight and uniform, then it is going to be impossible to get a tight stack.
Been burning Firewood for 30 years , I cut my own wood , throw it in the Truck and bring it home, put the wood in the stove and get heat , never cared what a cord is and never will.
A cord of wood originated while still in the round, unprocessed 4' x 4' x 8'. Here in Maine there is a law when selling processed firewood it shall measure 180 cf. When stacked will measure 110 to 115 cf.
Is a cord of wood split like that? That wood in the round would take up a lot more space. Is it also blocked into 16" pieces? I'd assume it'd be 4' lengths that would again have more space between the logs due to the slight bends here and there in the tree. There's so many ways to read into the definition. If you took a cord by the way I described it, blocked and spilt it, you'd have way less than that. Never really got into the nitty gritty of buying and selling wood. Just cut it. But I always wondered these things.
You have a throne, cord (180cf) and a stacked cord (128cf) , and always stack your wood before you pay for your wood delivery5x8x4.6 , and I still give it a mound, I have stacked the wood out of this trailer six different times every time it has equaled out to be 2 to 3 ft.³ more than a cord .
A stack 8 feet long and 4 foot high of 16 inch pieces is a face cord. A board foot is one foot by one foot by one inch. It is also 144 cubic inches. A 2 x 6 one foot long is a board foot (nominally). There are conventions within forest products that need to be considered. Then we get into how many board feet are in a tree.....
I have to buck the wood for my small wood stove to 12". I stack each cord 4 inches high, 384 feet long. After several cords, I can see the curvature of the earth - or so I've been taught. I'm not sure how many cords it takes to go around the earth. The wife started burning it, and some of it floated away.
I feel much better now that I can stack my cords in a liner way. It has always been a big hassle for me at the beginning of the stove season to get the wood off of the 8' tall tower of wood. Measurements are "L X W X H" (4X4X8)
4'x4'x8' is solely derived from our ancestors in log form "only" weight measurement was not readily available back then...their "rule of thumb" for weight was 4'x4'x8' in logs to meet the weight of a cord... process these logs was to create a "face cord" for firewood 4'x16' ... firewood is sold by face cord, the length of split firewood determine's measurements ‼️
Where as a "rick of wood" has no fixed cubage. It is nominally 1/3 of a cord or 4 foot by 8 feet with 16-18 inch piece lengths, but I have seen more short changing on delivery when buying by the rick.
In other words, an 8 foot pickup bed. Wood would be stacked between the wheel wells. Front to back to the top of the cab. Possible you say, but the weight of approximately 2.5 tons.
2:40 this guy sounds like the guy who was adamant that if a screw conveyor was conveying in the wrong direction, if you end for ended it it it would convey in the correct direction. This was a situation where the screw conveyor was powered by a tractor.
A logging company recently took a bunch of trees from my farm and left a lot of branches that will make easy firewood. Most of it will be small enough I won't have to split it. Lol.
It seems to me that the way you have your. Rod of wood stacked there will help it to dry faster than a 4x4x8 block. And pigs flying? Well they’d hog up the air space! Kind Thanks! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
This type of content really strikes a cord with me.
As long as we’re all in one accord, we’ll get there together
😂
With a 16in run, you'd need to multiply by .333, not 1.333.
Chord..l
16” = 1.33ft
It’s pointless arguing with idiots, they’ll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Like explaining tariffs to maga idiots and please stay out of my country you are no longer welcome hi from Canada
Gotta love Mark Twain.
There are 3 face cords in a full cord.
There are 3 face cords in a full cord. This guy only has half the story.
A cord is a cord, no matter how you stack it.
The 4x4x8 cord of wood came from how it was measured in 1610. It was measured with an 8 foot cord of rope. The first measurement was over the top and down the side. The second measurement was the length.
Interesting, thank you.
You just taught me the year of origin and agreed method of measurement.
I just learned the year of origin and agreed upon method of measurement. Thank you.
I applaud your cordial attempt to open up a civil discord on this subject. Accordingly I have recorded my approval by liking, commenting and subscribing.
...in accordance with proper conduct.
😅😂😅nice!
It’s math. A 2x4 is also a 4x2.
@@bobdavis5216 😲 You take that back!
Lmfao !!!
This brings back memories of when I first started cutting firewood. I was about 16 and everyone around here had fireplaces so we cut our wood 24 inches long. I remember selling one person a cord of wood and he had been buying face cords. Next thing I knew there were about 12 more people calling me wanting wood. Best free advertising I ever saw. Anyway love you video.
My dad was a math and music teacher in a couple of small logging towns in Oregon back in the 50's into the '80's. He would have loved this.
Delivered fire wood when I was a kid. We always stacked the splits in the dump truck so as to not have any issues upon delivery. One delivery ordered 10 cord so we brought out the small and big dump trucks. First load was the small truck and he thanked us for the delivery handing us the check. I told him I’ll be right back with his next load=big truck. He was flabbergasted! For years He had been buying firewood from another supplier not knowing what 10 cord actually was. So he hired us to stack what fit in his shed and bring some pallets and tarp to dry store the rest.
Here in GA I have yet to meet a firewood dealer that knows how much a cord of wood is. That's after living here 27 years.
@ I could ship you some fir and larch from wa state if ya want 😆
Unfortunately, basic math skills are about as rare as common sense these days.
We appreciate your videos so much. Thank you for taking the time to catalog these lessons!
Arguing with an idiot is wasted energy. The more I meet people, the more I appreciate my dog.
I don't have a dog, but there are plenty of stumps around here that seem to have more intelligence than a lot of folks out there.
Throw in"Rick" and "face cord" for units of measurement. That will really throw them for a loop. The key is tightly stacked !
Been selling firewood for 45 years. You're 100% correct. Really like to see the Californians moving to my area and selling loosely loaded piles of approximately X amount of wood.
What I like about your channel is that you provide what has basically become obsolete in todays world…… common sense! At the present rate common sense will be nonexistent in a generation or two……
Common sense is not that common.
Common sense is not obsolete……it’s endangered. Obsolete doesn’t mean what you think it does, it would seem. Common sense is most definitely still useful and applicable in today’s world, meaning it’s not obsolete at all.
Have you observed the sense that is COMMON these days?😶☕
Unfortunately not even common sense will cure STUPIDITY.
1:40 😂 “gotta tear this sh down” 😂 Had me rolling Ol’ Timer!! 👍🏻👍🏻🪵
I learned how to calculate the 'stacked cordwood' volume of a tree, a few years ago. Measure the volume of a firewood tree (in cubic feet) and multiply by 1.25 to get the predicted volume of the split and stacked wood. Divide by 128 and you have come up with the volume in cords. This allows for the fact that some of your stack is air spaces.
I'm sure I could Google it but I figured I would ask what measurements do I need to find out the volume of a standing firewood tree? Of course it would be an estimate but it would be nice to be able to get a base measurement and estimate a length and come up with a rough amount
This is all dependant on a data point referred to as form class, that assigns each site or stand a numerical average volume for diameter. Tree stands differ in composition due to all sorts of factors, including soil, environment, and stocking levels.
Form class is used to estimate mbf not the same as volume so is there a formula to use mbf to find volume I have no idea. Just do what I do guess
That is a cord of wood ! I had a guy argue with me that he could haul 5 cords on his pickup in one load !! Hahahaahahahaha
Listening to Wilson reminds me about the days when something like this didn't need an explanation. Integrity of trust based on honesty
I'm 68 years old and I didn't know this. I was always told 4 4 8. Thanks for teaching me the right way. Not that I'm going to cut any more wood. 😂 I enjoy learning.
I'm so glad that you clarified about how much firewood that it takes to make a cord. 128 cubic ft. is the magic number I understand now. So no matter how I "stack "it, my measurements should come out to 128 cubic ft. I never new this because people always have their own ideas about this. Yours is substantially based upon a number which is 128 cubic ft. Thanks for sharing!
A full size truck. 4x8x2 = 64 cu.ft. 1/2 cord
@@SteveLeingang-q3o fairly tightly stacked. My full-sized 88 GMC Sierra will hold a half-cord stacked, but only about a face-cord loosely tossed and slightly rounded.
If people are stubborn about a cord being 4x4x8 is simply because they can't abstract them away from that formula and they clearly struggle with math. They don't care about the real volume, only about the form.
I would deliver them a 4 foot wide, 4 foot tall stack of 8-foot logs and charge them for a cord of firewood.
@charliesullivan4304 hilarious. Take it to another level, a big 4x4x8 ft block of wood.
i like the "tightly stacked" definition.....👍💯🏆
Ha, ha, ha, ha. Great video. Thank you. A cord of wood is like a yard of concrete. 1 yd of concrete = 27 CF, it doesn’t matter if it’s 3x3x3’ or 243 SF 4” thick.
I think your math is off. 243 square feet times 4” thick ( one third of a foot) is 81 cubic feet or 3 cubic yards of concrete.
@ …yup, you’re right, I’m wrong. Thank you.
I remember The old quotation “ Never argue with a fool, lest you be mistaken for one!”
That’s a very nice cord of wood you have there.
Of course its 128 cu ft, when stacked. We used to say no matter how you stacked it. So the guy shows in his truck, dumps the wood, and you stack it, normally around here, if you thought it shy, you called them back and they were nice enough to bring a little more. And they wanted your business.
Hey Mr Wilson Great video. Made me chuckle. lol like 3 sticks of wood end to end 16+16+16 = lol. However, I do like the way its stacked. 6 rows 6 cord. Easy peazy
I'm glad you didn't get into the fact that a ton of wood weighs more than a ton of feathers!
is that bird feathers or horsefeathers?
'fact'
@@thecurrentmoment you guys are light-weights!
Would that be:
A short ton?
A long ton?
A metric ton?
A shyt ton?
@@RGreen-rt1fk yeah, but light weights made of steel so we still weigh way more
I like to go to extremes sometimes for the sake of clarity, just to get someone to understand the basis of the idea. For example, you could have 128 perfect 1 foot by 1 foot by 1 foot cubes of wood, stacked up on top of each other or lined up in a single row and it's still a cord. Cord is a standard volumetric measurement, plain and simple. No matter what shape your pile is.
My great great grandfather would stack his firewood single high for 128 feet.
When men were men.
12" lengths, I hope
But you've got to have the real estate to allow for that, Eh?
@ great great grampa had a 3rd party verbal handshake agreement with his neighbors.
Would have to be 1ft high
You are correct , true math is incapable of lying. Some folks don't comprehend math to the 3rd degree. Second degree represents AREA, third degree represents CUBIC AREA. To say a cord of wood not stacked 4x4x8 is not a cord is like saying four quarts of water isn't the equivalent of a gallon.
Wait, haven't you heard the new bill passed in Congress? It states 4 quarts is a gallon, but four quarts is not a gallon.
Mark Twain said: Never argue with stupid people or they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
My father and I cut firewood at the ranch in Montana in the winter time for forty years, pine and fir that we sold by the cord (128 cubic feet). Same with my uncle, on the next ranch, up the creek. Once in a great while, someone would argue that the 3/4 ton truck with extra high sides that we used to deliver wood couldn't possibly hole a cord of firewood. It happened. My response: "If you don't want it, I've got two other families waiting on wood today, and I'll be happy to move on down the road." I never had to just drive off.
On the other hand, I've seen too many jerks pull up in a 1/2 ton with no racks and claiming their load was a cord.
Selling short cords and passing them as cords is illegal in many places, and I've turned cons in for it. One tried to claim it was just a pile, thrown out of the back of his pickup.
I was always told that a gap in the pile could be big enough for a rabbit to go through as long as the fox couldn't go through after him. But those are East coast rules, maybe things are different on the West coast.🙂
Here on the West coast, I was always told to make gaps big enough for a mouse to go through, but small enough that a cat can't follow.....pretty close to East coast rules...
west coast rules involve a squirrel and a cat.
@kenbrown2808 Learn something new after 40 years of logging, and 25 of firewood selling.
@@nomorenever2782 I'd rather be your customer.
@@BrettCraft I appreciate your comment. I retired a few years ago, and sold my businesses. Felling trees is a young man's game, and not some old guy's with multiple back injuries. I recently moved into the mountains of Washington state. I've been noticing trees that are threatening my cabin, and access road. Who knows? Maybe I'll get out the 044 or the 395 and try to turn back the clock....
Dad started using wood instead of diesel in 1976. Diesel went UP TO 9 CENTS a gallon and he was mad enough to yank the furnace out and build a big wood stove. We hauled wood in the 69 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4. We had cab high side racks and went all the way to the back of the 8 foot bed, even leaving tailgate open sometimes. The first couple rear rims that literally split open from the weight should have been a wakeup call. 700-16 on old narrow car rims from the 40's failed often. Dad was one to get the most of everything. He never measured by the cord, but the "pickup load". We learned a lot from him except the hearing difference between WHOA and GO when skidding tamarack logs.
From what I understand it was 4’ unsplit lengths 4’ high and 8’ long. That volume is way more wood if you split it. It was an easy way to measure your woodcutters piecework. It is a lot easier to hand load 4’ lengths on a sled or cart between stakes to get them to the yard
No, when you split it it's still the same amount of wood, but it takes up less space because there is less space between pieces. So a 4x4x8 stack of unsplit lengths would be less than 128 cu ft when cut, split & stacked tightly
@ the first definition of a cord I found specified tight parallel packed unsplit 4’ lengths measured with a cord. Obviously if you measure the same volume cut and split you’d get more fuel. With the advent of heavy machinery unprocessed firewood stopped being in 4’ lengths. Not you’d get a flatbed of poles. Firewood should probably sold by moisture content, species, and weight.
Here’s a good one, started selling firewood a while back , after releasing I always have a bunch of log lengths from clearing land to do our excavation site work .
New customer contacts me for 1 cord of wood delivered, I load the generously large cord of wood into my f450 dump truck with large side boards . Customer says “hey so are you coming back today with the other 2 loads of wood “
Long story short the last person to sell her a cord of wood delivered in a pick up truck … so he did multiple loads
Once I explained, measured , stacked etc. she was still eager to make an issue , “well my sister said the air gaps take up 1/4 of the 128cubic feet …
Then was still not convinced any 350/450/550 could possibly carry an entire cord 😂😂 funny part is the house had 3 chimneys , 3 fire places and was gigantic, exotic cars in the drive way … never had a customer fight so hard to get some extra free wood
I will not being selling wood to her any longer and will let the next guy deal with it .
It would be interesting to see is you took your 1 cord stack of 4 x 24 x 1.33 and re-stacked it into a 4x4x8' cord to see if you would have fewer pieces of wood. I think your stack is probably tighter than the customary cord measurement therefore have a few more pieces of wood.
I thought he was going to do that to further prove his point.
This corresponds very well to the volume of a cord of wood in France, mesured by the "stère" or one cubic meter of split wood, usally cut into 50 cm lengths, with the cord amount usually coming out to 3 and 1/3 stères. Mr.Wilson's stack comes out to almost 3 and 1/2 stères, so that's a generous cord going by French standards!
was the wood cut for riverboat boilers 4' sticks. plus, chord is the string they used to measure 128 cubic feet
Does it fit in a Honda Acord?
Here in metric land (Sweden) firewood is sold in cubic meters, either piled or stacked. I have seen a few stores selling smaller amounts in bags measured either in liters or by mass/weight in kilograms too (I hope it is properly dry then...). Having a special unit for it seems like a very archaic thing to do, like the boardfeet you seem to be selling (woodworking) lumber in.
Dry or not, archaic is the way to go if you're trying to compare the mass of say, poplar to oak, or even black locust. Sure, we could do a metric conversion and use meters, but if you're really trading firewood by mass/weight, there be dragons.
@RGreen-rt1fk why not just cubic yards or feet? As I said, volume and specified if it is piled pr stacked is the standard here.
@pettere8429 Oh, yeah, like I said, conversions to meters would be fine. It would require some adjustment in thinking, but sure...
It's the mass/weight thing where I would have difficulty engaging. There's just too much difference between the density of hard woods to make it practical. I admit, though, that this is a luxury that I enjoy from living in the Eastern U.S.
On the subject of cords VS. cu. meters/yards, even cu. ft. ... yeah, cords/face cords represent the ingrained cultural description of firewood that is entrenched here in N. America. It would require a c-change in thinking. And... because home-heating with wood is outside the norm of everyday life in N. America, there's no pressure or incentive to change. In fact, belonging to the 'group' and learning the lingo is exactly one of the cultural forces that keep it entreched.
I was taught 46 years ago, old school, to first stack a cord 4 foot x 4 foot x 8 foot. Then get the boss to confirm and remeasure. THEN toss that cord of wood onto the back of a chip body dump truck. THEN, take a can of spray paint and trace the top and side lines of the pile where it rested against the walls. Then every time after that, when I needed to load a cord of wood, I could just pitch wood off of a wood pile onto the truck until it got up to the painted line and THAT would always be a cord.
The art of choosing your battles online without dying
Buying firewood was sometimes the only option. And I didn't think I was getting my money worth. I had heard your formula for a cord. But I had been told by an older builder a cord was actually 48" wide and 52" tall by eight feet. Of course you could calculate it from different dimensions.
I use to help my brother with his firewood business but our cords were 8x8x2 that is 8 foot long logs stacked 2 feet high and on a 8 foot long flatbed. Two foot high was about as high as I could lift the logs by hand on my side. So yes that = a cord of wood.
While I agree completely, the comedian said it "You can't fix stupid".
All official standards define a cord of wood as being 128 cubic feet, not necessarily 4'x4'x8'.
I cut firewood for at least 20 years, and I gained most of my knowledge from a old firewood cutter who did it commercially for 60+ years. He never sold a "cord" of firewood. He said that was an easy way to get into legal problems with the same morons you describe. He sold wood by the "LOAD". He put a price on the LOAD and you could take it or leave it!
I knew him well and I doubt anyone ever questioned his integrity. He had looked down the barrel of a gun at many people, and had pulled the trigger on a few. He was a true pioneer by every sense of the word.
Ironically he died from a fall in his shower when he was 90.
Dang it, there’s going to come a time in the not to distant future where I’m going to need the loosely stacked number of 190 and I’m not only going to not remember it, I’m going to forget which video you mentioned it on! 🤦🏻♂️ That was excellent information to store away however 👍🏼
I agree I'm from upper Michigan now live in Arkansas and I hear the same thing all the time that if you have three Ricks is equal to a cord a Rick is supposed to be 16 ft by 8 ft by 4 ft High or face cord which is 24 inches wide 8 ft long and 4 ft High It Takes Two Face chords to make a cord but somehow people just don't understand that
Oops I meant 16in x4ft x8ft.
I have pondered... I hope you will too.
A cord is a cord. "They are right' 4X4X8 but they dont even know why.....
The measure of a cord of wood comes from steam boat days when boilers took 4 foot long pieces of wood. ANYONE could measure a single four foot piece of wood and from that single piece then measure twice its length thus measuring 4 by 4 by 8. When the wood was picked up it was quickly and easily measured with the very wood that was laying there. You left the stack of wood any where it could be seen from the river and the boats would stop, pick it up and leave you the money... the steam boats came on schedules give or take and thus you knew about when to look for your money.
They burned more wood than a forest fire so the demand was endless.
This was common practice on the Colombia and the Kootenay rivers
Worth noting the wood had to be debarked. It was common to pound the length of a green tree with a sledge hammer to looses the bark so it could be stripped. A good job for any man that was made of mostly metal.
Alas you are right also... 4 by 4 by 8 measure 128 cu feet of wood.. but no steam boat is going to buy it as it is NOT A CORD.
Read what I wrote with the same attitude you put in your video and you should be amused... education can be fun.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Maryland has a legal definition of a cord for firewood. The Maryland legal definition is that is fills a standard half-cord cage (which is 4'x4'x4') twice when filled by tossing (not tightly stacked or fitted). I once had a dispute with a firewood delivery service there; the state trooper came out and to my house, set up the folding cage, and filled it twice. Now I live in Louisiana, where the "cord" has no legal definition.
54 years ago when I was 20 I was told by the "old timers" to stack a cord of wood properly you stacked it loose / tight enough that a squirrel could run through it but not the cat chasing it.
It would have been really hilarious if you would have made the woodpile 128' x 1' x 1'.
As my gramps used to say, "Some people would complain if you hanged them with a new rope." (the reason being that new rope has more stretch.) 😅 As to the measurement of a cord, I never cared a lick. The woodshed just had to be filled and it always seemed endless when I was a kid, because I was always appointed the one to stack the wood and fill it. It had to be tight too, so tight a mouse couldn't crawl through it, or I was made to do it over. If you decide to make a pig trebuchet, let me know, I'd love to see pigs fly. 😅
You could take on the “face cord” crowd next. Please.
@@brentoconnor6127 don't you mean ricks, lol.
@@RGreen-rt1fk You mean 3 ricks to a cord? (each 16" deep)
When I was in my teen I was told the one row method and the 4x4x8 method. In a perfect world wood cut to 16 inch would stack 3 rows wide in a 4x4x8 cord. That equals 16"x4x24. Only reason I was taught that was because every time I got in trouble I had to hand split and stack a cord. Lol
After being in the cedar shake bolts for shakes on public roofs I got very good at scaling how many feet in a stack of wood. Using the number eight for my denominator, as in eight times one is .... lets do it in numbers 8 X 1= .08, 8x2=.16, 8x3=.24 and so on. as in say 8x6=.48 or one half of a foot.... so in first example I rounded up .24 to .25, and the second half of this 8x6= .50. You can do this with every inch as in 8x11= .88 in the third quarter of four quarters of a foot. I hope you take the time to do what I showed you here. Take 8x9= .72, round it up three points on it to make it .75 or three quarters of a foot... See when guys are getting paid for how much they produce, they can't wait till they have a full cord of cedar blocks to get paid. Using this formula is making it able to stack any size pile of wood up and get a good average on height and width, and length = how much your cutter is getting paid on. I do truly hope you take the time to figure out how this works
I think the biggest confusion with firewood is a full cord vs a face cord.
What's the difference
@TakeTheRide a face cord is 4 foot x8 foot x16 inches
Face chord .. sounds like s dishonest use of the word chord... just say 1/3 of a chord
@joelindsey9958 probably been called that for a hundred years
@@robertlivingston1634Yes, well, actually, a face cord can be any length IF pre-arranged by the customer, in my opinion. A 12" face would be 32 cu. ft., but still a face. If length is NOT mentioned, he should expect to get 42-2/3 cu. ft. in some form or other.
I remedied this problem with ease. I built a trailer 6 foot by 10 foot and the sides being 2 foot tall for 120 cubic feet and then stacked some over for the other 8 feet. Usually 15-20 cubic feet over. We would get the buyer to accept the load and pay before we would start to unload. Anything different from that we climb in the truck and adios.
I would assume that when Ulysses Grant made a living selling firewood before entering politics and becoming president, a wagon load of firewood was roughly 4x4x8. Depending on the size of the wagon of course. I have great respect for the old timers with their "misery whips, buck saw and axes. I try to pay homage to these great woodsmen and split everything with a maul and axe. I love the work and exercise.
My shed area was 17' long. But stacking 16" pieces to 6' gives a cord per row. Same with 5'x20' with the rows that are now kept outside, though 6'x17' works better with the tarps.. The bigger problem is when a friend or tree service cuts the wood, and it's not 16". But often free wood, especially if it is delivered, is worth it. Sometimes it isn't, if wonky cut pieces don't work well with hand splitting or in the splitter. But worst case, recutting a 22" piece with 2 angled ends at least gives one flat end, even if the 11" result doesn't mesh well with my 16" target.
How do you account for the shrinkage due to the space between each piece of wood?
Numbers don't lie Mike, some people just are not good at math and you need to accept they never will be. There are probably a dozen ways to stack a cord of wood which are all correct as long as they add up to 128 cubic feet
In addition to a stacked cord = 128 cubic feet Maine has a legally defined not stacked measure called a loose cord. 180 cubic feet for 12" to 16" logs or 195 cubic feet for 24" logs. Any other places use these 2 definitions?
Minnesota here, 128 for stacked, 180 for loose/thrown
This channel is exactly how my channel would look and sound like if I had one that wasn't just crap. My humor is the same, I'm just not as witty.
Wood cut to different fire box length can obviously change the dimensions of a stack, but volume is still there.
There could be a geography language barrier, in Michigan we call a field cord(fuel cord) 4x4x8 or 128 square is used on the woodlot by wholesalers , a face cord (firewood cord) is 4x8x length or the face of the cord, also some stackers call that a Rick or a rake.
So you would be disappointed trying to buy a "cord of firewood" here. LoL
So.e people would argue wth a stop sign!! Stay Hydrated and Have a Safe Day
Ac-cord-ing to Hoyle, you are correct.
So, what you have there is a "long cord", right? Thanks for the video.
Extension cord
@@mikevee9145now you’re really stretching it.
@@brentoconnor6127
That would be tumble stack.
All air, no wood!
@blaydCA That's a stack of cards, not cords, right?
This is really good info. Thank you.
“What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
oh dear ! the poor guy has to take refuge in silliness to deal with the ever expanding lot of morons in this world. always enjoyable Mr Wilson !
In our digital age, one might say two cords of wood is a byte of cubic feet of wood. (One byte is 256 bits, so half would be 128.)
depends on how it's stacked; air space presently accepted is 15-17% for a cord.
More correctly, a stacked cord is 128 Cu. Ft. of wood, bark, and air space.
Of course 128 Sq. Ft. Is a cord of wood. I bought 10 cords at a time in 12 ft lengths for years and no one jumped out out the truck and chucked them up into 4 X 4 X 8 stacks!! There is a definite description of a cord of wood and it relates to board ft plus but I get lost trying to get it. Cheers 🇨🇦
You should do a video instructing people on how to buy cordwood. There are a lot of people out there selling firewood who either intentionally or unintentionally will rip you off. First thing you need to do is stack and measure to see how close to a true cord you bought. Almost all sellers load wood into the truck with a bucket, and how they guess how many buckets makes a cord differs significantly. In the end it’s a guess. Stack and measure to verify. Second, look at the pieces being delivered. Are they all the same length? If not, it is going to be very difficult to stack and measure. Third, are the pieces straight, or is it lots of crotch wood. Did they trim the branches flush with the trunk or ate there branch nubs sticking out. If the pieces are not straight and uniform, then it is going to be impossible to get a tight stack.
Been burning Firewood for 30 years , I cut my own wood , throw it in the Truck and bring it home, put the wood in the stove and get heat , never cared what a cord is and never will.
If you ever have to buy it you will
Hopefully the rip off people will realize that they better be careful on advertising a cord. Good video.
A cord of wood originated while still in the round, unprocessed 4' x 4' x 8'. Here in Maine there is a law when selling processed firewood it shall measure 180 cf. When stacked will measure 110 to 115 cf.
I used to sell firewood.
128 cubic feet, neatly stacked.
It was Massachusetts State LAW!
PS: You owe the customer .000032 Cubic foot of wood in your pile there. 😂
Yankee incredulity.
Same in WA. No face or 1/3 cord allowed. Pages of firewood regs here.
Why didn’t you just add extra it’s easier, 😂😂,
Is a cord of wood split like that? That wood in the round would take up a lot more space. Is it also blocked into 16" pieces? I'd assume it'd be 4' lengths that would again have more space between the logs due to the slight bends here and there in the tree. There's so many ways to read into the definition. If you took a cord by the way I described it, blocked and spilt it, you'd have way less than that.
Never really got into the nitty gritty of buying and selling wood. Just cut it. But I always wondered these things.
You have a throne, cord (180cf) and a stacked cord (128cf) , and always stack your wood before you pay for your wood delivery5x8x4.6 , and I still give it a mound,
I have stacked the wood out of this trailer six different times every time it has equaled out to be 2 to 3 ft.³ more than a cord .
A stack 8 feet long and 4 foot high of 16 inch pieces is a face cord. A board foot is one foot by one foot by one inch. It is also 144 cubic inches. A 2 x 6 one foot long is a board foot (nominally). There are conventions within forest products that need to be considered. Then we get into how many board feet are in a tree.....
Thank you for clarifying this information.
4’x24’x16” stack is referred to as Face Cord up here in the Northeast.
😂😂😂😂😂
I have to buck the wood for my small wood stove to 12". I stack each cord 4 inches high, 384 feet long. After several cords, I can see the curvature of the earth - or so I've been taught. I'm not sure how many cords it takes to go around the earth. The wife started burning it, and some of it floated away.
What is the current cost of a Cord?
I feel much better now that I can stack my cords in a liner way. It has always been a big hassle for me at the beginning of the stove season to get the wood off of the 8' tall tower of wood. Measurements are "L X W X H" (4X4X8)
4'x4'x8' is solely derived from our ancestors in log form "only" weight measurement was not readily available back then...their "rule of thumb" for weight was 4'x4'x8' in logs to meet the weight of a cord... process these logs was to create a "face cord" for firewood 4'x16' ... firewood is sold by face cord, the length of split firewood determine's measurements ‼️
Where as a "rick of wood" has no fixed cubage. It is nominally 1/3 of a cord or 4 foot by 8 feet with 16-18 inch piece lengths, but I have seen more short changing on delivery when buying by the rick.
In other words, an 8 foot pickup bed. Wood would be stacked between the wheel wells. Front to back to the top of the cab. Possible you say, but the weight of approximately 2.5 tons.
Glad you made this video and shown everyone thank you sir
Your correct. You could make three rows that are right ft. 16"" x 3 equals 4 ft. Wide x 4 ft high x 8 ft. He is correct
2:40 this guy sounds like the guy who was adamant that if a screw conveyor was conveying in the wrong direction, if you end for ended it it it would convey in the correct direction. This was a situation where the screw conveyor was powered by a tractor.
A logging company recently took a bunch of trees from my farm and left a lot of branches that will make easy firewood. Most of it will be small enough I won't have to split it. Lol.
Face cord. Myth has it 3 face cords makes a cord when inches and feet are used. Using the metric measuring system you gotta add another decimal point!
You are correct. Cut wood all my life. Luckily I've dealt with people with a brain and never had to argue that point.
It seems to me that the way you have your. Rod of wood stacked there will help it to dry faster than a 4x4x8 block. And pigs flying? Well they’d hog up the air space! Kind Thanks! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
go after them with is water solid or liquid.