My Most Accurate Back-Up Gun
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
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H.R. If you watch the video and look very very closely I think you will see that the 3rd shot from the bench from your M&P .40 went into the exact same hole as your first shot, at least that's what I saw. Tremendous shooting out of all these handguns. I really enjoy this shootout series, thank you.
That's what it looked like to me as well
Thank you! I wish that shot had gone through one of the existing holes, but it didn’t. The shot hole was clearly visible (to me) off to the left.
Nice shooting Sir. Thank you for all you've done for our country.
God bless
I have a S&W Model 442 air weight. Never had or even fired a revolver before I bought it, now I carry it all the time just because how light and easy it is. I was astounded by the accuracy on that thing!
They are more accurate than many people give them credit for. Thanks for watching!
Outstanding Howard "007 JAMES BOND " YOU ARE A GOOD SHOT WITH THE PPK .My Favorite backup handgun is the Springfield Armory Hell Cat 9mm. I did have a S&W mdl 60 Chief .38 special stainless 5 shot J frame revolver as a backup but I sold it years ago with my S&W Mdl. 66 4" K frame .357mag revolver .
Can't tell you how many guns I've carried deep uniform pockets so even used N frames 2 3/4" S&W. Snub revolvers: PPK and HSC .380, STAR PD .45 and many others. 1911 commander .45 in shoulder rig under winter jacket. .38 and .357 snubs. Like I said many more. In CID ROBBERY we all carried a second gun. Some favored PPK .380 pistols some J frame .38 Specials I used a bright S/S Colt 1911 officers model .45 and others too but always carried a second on our person's after armed and violent bad guys. Everyone had a shotgun in days before M16A1 being issued to some troops 1 per squad unit. I used my own M1 Carbine on stake out details plus a shotgun. But second guns in pockets on ankles or in the vest were mandated by us for those working robbery crimes. Seems good advice to this day for all law enforcement.
This was a fun video to watch. Not many people can take 6 different firearms let alone 2 different architecture designs and maintain that level of accuracy.
For me it proves training and practicing your shooting fundamentals make all the difference. Thanks for the down to earth ingestible content. I always take something away that I can better my self with
My pleasure Mike. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the video Mr funk.. I also own a 342 airlite ti centennial.38 I purchased about 6 years ago used in a local gun shop. I carry it daily in my right front pocket in a DeSantis Superfly pocket holster.. loaded with Federal HST + p 38. I installed full size rubber hogue monogrips.. the gun still easily fits in my front pocket and the full size grip covers the back strap cushions my hand from recoil and gets all my fingers for maximum control...BTW I saw your earlier video years ago on the 340 TI centennial..
Thanks for the comment Glen. The 342 is a great little wheelie. I wish S&W would bring it back into their line/up.
@@hrfunk I wish Smith & Wesson would bring the 342 38 special back... I got lucky and purchased mine used in excellent condition used .. at a local gun shop for $550.. which seems kind of high for a used gun but then the titanium cylinder guns are going for.. over $800 with the 357 Magnum version for $1,200.. seems like I got a pretty good deal
I think so too. I bought mine used (but like new) for about that same price 20 years ago.
I'm really enjoying this series. Thanks for the great content!
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the editing and the two part test.
Quite enjoyable.
This should be a good one. First time I qualified with my original "backup" the instructor wanted badly to NoGo me, but he couldn't! Still have that old snubby.
I am really looking forward to this one. That Chief’s Special compact semi-auto is calling to me (I like Smiths) but I have to say that the most accurate gun I’ve ever fired (and I know this will sound weird) was a Walter PPK. It just fitted my hand and felt right, and the owner (I’d just borrowed it to try) could not believe the group sizes I shot with it. Neither could, I but I enjoyed the experience. So let’s see how this plays out. Good choice of subject Howard. Thank you.
You’re welcome Alan. By the way, we will be arriving in Edinburgh on Sunday morning. Shoot me an email if you might try to make it up there.
Great video Howard. Glad to see that I'm not the only one to shoot the PPK well. It's my EDC.
No kidding... my PPK in .32 auto is amazing. also my Makarov which is really just a PPK copy shoots almost as well. Can't go wrong with any of those or any J frame For some reason me and striker fired semi autos do not get along but my buddy shoots his really well. Sooo... last time we were out shooting with half a dozen handguns or so... I brought my Uberti Colt single action army clone model of 1873 in 44 special with the 4.75" barrel. I knew it would shoot well cause I have the same gun in .357 with the longer barrel and it is pretty amazing...
I have shot a Hellcat with an optic red dot to confirm zero with a fellow shooter for his concealed carry firearm. I was very fortunate that I shot it at 6 shot groups from between 7 to 8 yards comparable to you. It shot consistently approx. 1.5" groups almost centered when shot at a 6o'clock hold. I was lucky as I had no flyers. I normally have at least one shot wide or a flyer when I shoot. I really enjoyed this no nonsense comparison!! It re-enforced my opinion for the Hellcat. I have a S&W Shield Performance Center For my concealed carry that I can consistently shoot at under 2" at 10 yards most of the time. If I had to purchase another I would probably choose the Hellcat Pro to replace the Shield. Keep up the great no nonsense sensible, reasonable videos!!! Thanks again!!
You’re most welcome. Thanks for watching!
Will Brother, I couldn't be happier with your results. First, I have owned a for 15 years a Walther PPK/S as my CCW. I always felt I wanted more power & round count. When the Springfield Armory Hellcat came out I fell in love. I now own two, a standard original issue & an OSP version.
Individuals would belittle my .380 Bond Gun for inaccuracies and "weak rounds". YOU JUST MADE THEM EAT DIRT.
My SA HELLCAT was mocked by arrogant Glock owners, who think/say that Glock is the only Handgun someone should own. Their are also the S&W and Sig groupies. I can accept the SIG but not the S&W....When a Deputy Sheriff in Oklahoma my backup & CCW was a H&K Mod. .380.
THANKS FOR REDEMMING MY EGO. Saving this video to show them. Semper Fi.
Semper Fi! Thanks for watching.
Surprised you never had a Colt D frame 38. I had several S&W j frame 38s and sold all but one a 60-7 . I prefer the Colts in both alloy and steel versions. In my opinion they are the finest 2 inch 38 revolvers ever made. 6 shots, good grips and the alloy D frame especially the hammer shrouded Agent shoots as easily as a steel frame S&W. The S&W j frames feel like small revolvers the Colts feel more like a mid size fighting revolver. For me the Colts shoot as well as a K frame short barrel S&W. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it
I have my father's old PPKs from the 70's (Interarms, Made in Germany) and it shoots very well. 100% reliable, even with hollow points. My small gun of choice though is the S&W Shield Plus. Got one for me and one for the Mrs. for when we both feel the need to carry. She shoots it well enough, she'll be familiar with either one she picks up and we have magazine compatibility. When it's just me carrying, there are others I prefer.
Just wanted to say this before I take a break from UA-cam. Great channel love your videos thankyou for your Service God Bless.
Thank you Wade!
The Hellcat was a surprise I admit, great job
Thanks Tom!
Checking this out again after a year, this is a very thorough review. Funny, after some time, I just took the Hellcat out of the safe. So, good see this report. Thanks.
Interesting! Strikes a chord here: my wife has two Centennials (we’re old school, she carried a revolver on duty) and my bathrobe pocket gun (for when I have to establish fire superiority with marauding raccoons at 0100) is an old German made PPK. Thanks for the video.👍
You’re welcome Lane. Thanks for watching.
I never thought I would be into J frames, but you've convinced me.
Once you go J you never go back!
It would have been better to limit the bench contest to 5 shots. Reloading the revolvers changed the whole dynamic, especially since you were only scoring "the best 5".
The camera angle on that u notch big dot sight on the Hellcat really did highlight how "good looking" it was. The sights on the revolvers and the ppk-s are their main drawback, small and unchangeable, but they are rugged, if you should drop them they are unlikely to be affected.
Looks like all of your backup selections were ready to perform adequately.👍👍
I think you are spot on with that suggestion. Having to reload one round and then get back into position is going to put the revolvers at a disadvantage so shooting 5 (these are backup guns after all) and perhaps taking the best 4 shots would be a good way to go. Personally, as this an accuracy test not a combat effectiveness test, I think I would have put a bright red patch in the centre of the silhouette target to provide a point of reference for each of the 5 shots. I think that might have tightened up some of those groups a little. But definitely a good video.
I have a gen 3 Glock 26 I bought new just before the pandemic... We had a crazy skunk spray underneath our cabin and going crazy...it was getting bad and he wouldn't stop, not sure what was going on. I had my dad stomp on the floor so we would force it out and I could take care of it. Running out from under the far end of the cabin on a full sprint and I took a shot at it. I had to thread the needle between the outhouse and the container (where we keep the ATVs, don't want to hit those). I had like a 5ft area between the two where I could actually shoot with a clear backstop. I took one shot... The skunk just did a front roll and stopped in it's tracks. Ended up being a 40 yard shot on a running skunk. My dad turned the corner and couldn't believe it. I have never seen him laugh so hard. One of my favorite memories at the cabin. The cabin stank for 6 months after, even a year later you would get minor whiffs of it. I never knew how bad they were at point blank... Imagine a burning duck mixed with rotting meat, mixed with thebworst pig farm ever. I have been super impressed with the Glock 26. I can shoot that better than any of my Glock 19s or 17s, better than any of the 1911s, or Berettas. I don't know if it's the short barell or the lack of pinky grip so I don't pull shots as much but I can keep rounds touching at 7 yards with the g26. I'm more of a target focused shooter vs. a bullseye shooter.. but with that gun I can shoot small groups for whatever reason.
Good shot! I’m glad the 26 works so well for you!
I have two Hellcats. Love em...
Good content!
Always amazed at what the old school snubbies can STILL do!
I have an S&W 442 I bought in the early 80s at the LAPD Academy Store.
Had it in my pocket earlier today for a bit outside.
Question: Why the 6 o'clock hold and not dead on for combat shooting?
Thanks. My wife has a 442 and it’s a great wheelie.
I prefer the 6 O’clock hold because it allows me a more precise sight picture. With it, I can see the entire bullseye.
I'll have to try it!!!
When I was a cop in the 70-80s my back ups were a model 36 S&W with it's hammer spur removed for winter carry and an OMC 380 for summer carry. All officers had to qualify on the ppc course with their off duty and back up weapons. I never had any problems qualifying all the way out to the 50 yard line with either pistol. Regrettably my OMC back up broke the weld holding the barrel to the frame a few years ago and it can not be repaired. So I bought a Taurus 380 as a replacement.
I hope the Taurus works just as well.
I hope the Taurus works just as well.
Amazing that the PPK did as well as it did against much newer designs; Walther has been making that model for almost 90 years.
Yep. It’s a great classic pistol. I’m so glad I finally have one!
I have the older PPK/S Interarms 380, and it really is a good gun and was surprised at it's performance. I also have a good number of S&W J frames and of course those are always good and carry them as well. but as I right this my old Colt DS is near me. it as well as the Cobra and Agent . are really, really good guns to have and worth looking for. . I have them as both the pre 1972 and the post 1972 versions. on the post 72 guns, grips can always be changed out for smaller grips, and they fit in a pocket as well as the pre 72 guns . but , the pre 72 Agent is the smallest . and six shots for sure. good video as always. and with the M&P 40 I think you put 2 shots into the same hole.
Very informative and well put together program as always. As a civilian I never had to carry a BUG. But I have carried some BUG-qualified pistol as part of my EDC rotation in some occassions. CZ-82 in 9x18mm was the first, followed by KelTec P11 and P32, Glock 26 Gen3, S&W 637 in 38 Spl, Taurus M85 Ultralite in 38 Spl, M&P 9C, Ruger LC9 and LCP II, Kahr CM9 and CW380, M&P9 Shield Gen1 and Plus, Glock 43X and Taurus GX4. The top 3 on my list are the G43X, Shield Plus, and the GX4. They are slim and light but handle like a bigger gun with good accuracy, similar to your winner, the Hellcat. There are quite a few models in my lineup that are no longer in my stable since I did not find them very shootable. The KelTecs P11 and P32, Rugers LC9 and LCP II, and S&W 637 are gone.
I'm glad you mentioned (17:40) that you had to get out of position with the revolvers to get your 6th round. That seemed to affect your accuracy a bit. When I am in a groove and then reload a revolver it seems like the very first shot of the second round is off somewhat for me. That puts the revolvers at a slight disadvantage. I have a S&W 640 that was my off duty that I still occasionally carry, that little thing is much more accurate than people would think. The funny thing is that the Hellcat with a Holosun red dot has been my primary carry pistol for the last couple of years. I wasn't sure if 32 minutes for this video might be too long but it was not, you did a great job on this video.
Thanks! I worried about the length too, but when I reviewed it the time seemed to pass quickly.
@@hrfunk
👍
At 23:17 we see key holing, it's caused by the bullet flying side ways , if the bullet diameter is a thousandth to small for the barrel bore it doesn't make good contact with the lands & groves , hence doesn't twist enough to stabilize in flight. This causes the bullet to tumble in flight , this is why we see key holing in the target paper . Absolutely all these short barrel Mico compact's are good for under 30ft or about , 30' is about as far as they're expected to pro-form good. Great test Buddy 🤠
Interesting test, the PPK shot string at five yds was the slowest which might indicate an adjustment in grip or sight picture midstream. Overall, pretty good performance from those. It would be fun to see the second test done at ten yds rather than five. That would show which one you do the best with and might change what you carry the most. Nice work.
Encouraging demo. Interesting results. Appreciate the time & energy for data.
Thank you!
Great Shootout, and a very Interesting way to score the competition. 👍🏼
Thanks!
HR, a great series. I carried an Interarms Walther PPK/S as a backup for a while. Was the only weapon I ever shot a perfect qualifying with. The only problem was that it was not dependable. Was very mag and ammo sensitive. Went back to my dependable model 36.
I don’t blame you. Fortunately, my PPK/S has been completely reliable.
prigs, have you ever shot the PPS or PPS M2? I have an M2 which I find very good ergonomically and a very accurate pistol. A bit snappy given its size but if you shot the PPK/S well you wouldn't think it so bad.
I have not shot any of those but I hope to do so in the future.
I have not shot any of those but I hope to do so in the future.
@@seanoneil277 Sean, I believe I have shot the PPS. My son has one. I really like the Walther products
nice format.scoring especially considering the varied aspects, thanks!
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching John!
SIG 365 for me and my buds. 10 shots at 22 yards (good ammo) was sub 4 inches.
Another 5 Star Review Sir. I really enjoyed that accuracy test. I will try that Range Exercise myself thanks to you on some of my CCW Pistols and Revolvers including my Hellcat. Don’t know if my grouping will be anywhere Compatible to yours, however it looked like a lot of fun doing that type of shooting regarding firearms comparison. Thanks again Chief.
You’re welcome Doug. Have fun!
Video content was exceptionally well done. The editing feature allowed us to see the shots at the same time as you were making them. Additionally we didn’t have to hear the load shots while listening to the video. I would add that perhaps for timed shots that there be an element of accuracy as the thoracic area counts more than shots being placed elsewhere. No matter how tight a group is, if it’s off it’s intended target if it’s off.
Thanks! I prefer to edit the videos so viewers can see the shots impact. I think that adds an element of authenticity. Since I didn’t test these handguns with their respective carry ammo, I used group size rather than location. Thanks for watching!
Very impressive performance from the revolvers, I’ve always been a revolver fan , great shooting 👍
Thank you!
Thanks, HR
J frame S&Ws have been a favorite of mine for backup/off duty/concealed carry for 50 years. I have a Model 40, Model 640 and Model 642. All .38 Special (+P for the 642) I see you have learned to stage the trigger. Works quite well and becomes 2nd nature with practice.👍
I also own and used to carry a fairly often a Walther PPK/s stainless. Great gun. IMO too heavy and large by today's standards of .380s, but mine is not for sale. Easy to shoot and accurate.
My current primary CC handgun is S&W Model 3914 DAO, similar, but a little larger than the CS9. I wish S&W had just reintroduced the CS9 instead of that "CSX" thing...whatever that is.
I had a 3914 years ago. I foolishly traded it for something else, and that was a mistake. It was a great little pistol and I shot it well. I wish I could get that one back.
I like the head to head shoot out of a variety of guns. Nice job.
Thanks Ray!
This has been a fun series
Thanks. I’m glad you like it!
I would consider that S&W 40 cal a carry gun, but that is just me. It is big. As for the J-frames, here in south Texas, that is a super popular gun. The heat here lasts 10 months. You really need to experience it to understand it. A lot of guys pocket carry one. That has been changing the last few years, with folks going for bigger guns and round count due to the open border invasion. The J-frame is still popular withe the older crowd. If you see a guy in stached khaki pants, a white dress shirt, boots, and a clean hat, he is going to town and probably has a J-frame in his pocket.
Just to let you know.. charter arms has a revolver that Chambers 40-cal auto cartridge.. NO MOON CLIPS NEEDED..
Very well put together video. Good shooting. Any one would be a good backup or cc.
Thanks James!
The PPK finish surprises me , as does the Hellcat . Very good idea to add the 5 shots in 5 sec. for these handguns . Been a great Series thus far .
Thank you!
For me it would be my m&p shield 45, I shoot it better than some of my full size handguns. At 7 yards it nothing for me to put a whole magazine into 1 hole regularly.
@Peter Angles ? Lol
@Peter Angles 🤦🏽♂️
Enjoy your videos, your very understandable, as well as a wealth of knowledge. Got a question,I appendix carry a beretta px4 compact with some work done by Langdon tactical. I prefer the double action since I appendix carry, but do rotate the m&p 2.0 compact as well. My question is what’s your opinion of the beretta px4 storm? I didn’t notice any video on it in your archives. Plus when you conceal carry how do you carry? Back to my thoughts on the beretta px4 compact I own my own range in Texas and I put the gun through a test. I shot over 5000 rounds through the beretta in about 5-6 months doing drills much like you do. And had only two malfunctions. And it was mag related it locked back prematurely twice, and that was it. So I feel very confident carrying it. Thanks look forward to your response.
I’m glad you like the PX4 and I hope it continues to work so well for you. I reviewed a .40 S&W PX4 a year or so ago. I really didn’t care for it, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t right for you.
Thanks Chief! Love the “most accurate” series!
Thanks Chris!
I also have a s&w 342 revolver for pocket carry. Most people have never heard of it as it is pretty rare lightest gun I own with that titanium cylinder
I love mine. I think S&W should have kept it in their lineup.
I cackled when you included the Walther PPk! It IS a miraculous pistol from some of the better makers (Interarms)! No surprise to me that it almost won..........................elsullo
I'm most comfortable with a J frame when it comes to carry (Old Guys Rule). I don't carry one as much as I used to but if you told me I had to score X on a target; I would grab a J frame.
First1 up revolver 442 did great. Sec2.sw9 automatic little Low ok. 3rd. Revolver very.good . 4th.sw40c low but good. 5th.hellcat rt. Very good. 6th PPK rt very good. At 10yrds. All within 2 or 3". VERY GOOD , as we know sometimes ammo will give you a weird shot for no known reason . I'd say your 442 did the best. At 30' to be off by 3" is still very good in my book , I train at that distance all the time I used too use iron sights, now green dots , it's much faster. Great work Sir.
Excellent comparison here, hrfunk. The bench performance, to me, shows your impressive skill with different trigger pulls, ergonomics, sight radius, sights themselves. And each of the handguns shot a very nice group. I don't think there's many, if any, in your audience who could manage that consistency among different handguns. I hope a casual visitor to your channel realizes the amount of skill on display here.
The Hellcat has a lot of fans and plenty have been sold. I've never held or shot one, but if it's as nice a shooter as the XDM Elite I have, I'm not surprised it won here. The Walther was a laser beam too. And your J-frame, great shooter. Heck, they all shot well! Maybe the indian knows how to use many arrows?
Ha, ha! Naa. The arrows find their own way to the target. Thanks for watching Sean!
Another well done video sir. At the beginning, I expected the DAO revolvers to place poorly, but I suspect you did a lot of training with them through the years and the results speak for themselves. I tried a PPK decades ago and I really wanted to like that pistol. After all, James Bond did his best work with it! The one thing I learned about it was not to get too high of a grip on it-I still carry a scar where the slide cut me clean as a butcher's knife across my hand near the base of my thumb. Accurate shooter however.
The extended grip tang on the newer Walthers really helps prevent slide-bite. Thanks for watching!
A good, tight, rubber slip-on sleeve with a finger-groove rise near the bottom really helps control the slide rise that produces the slide-bite. It gives a slight palm swell too. I put a Hogue Hand-all on my PPk and it never bit me again!...........................elsullo
@@elsullo2 Solved the problem years ago when I bought a Colt Compact Model in 45ACP. I'm a personal believer in my BUG taking the same cartridges as my primary.
Thanks for the video very nice. Do you ever carry 2 pistols on your person at the same time one being a back-up? I prefer the defensive drills where you have to get on target quickly there won't be any sandbags when the shtf but I enjoy all of your stuff the accuracy shooting is cool too. All the best!
Thanks KD. Before I retired I routinely carried two handguns. These days I might still do so but the occasions are rare.
Nice guns on table. I would go with 649 snub in 357, it and my 638 S&w snub, I also like my CR920 from shadow systems, then last two on my list is Ruger lcp max .380 and my tomcat 32auto.
The Hellcat is my primary. I found that I could shoot it better than a full size 9, so I sold the full size.
I have a Model 60 Pro Series J Frame, very fun gun that can pull off light weight carry, and pleasant shooting..obviously a little aggressive when firing .357 Magnum 😅
Every one of those handguns would serve their backup purpose well. I was especially impressed by the two S&W revolvers and with a bit of practice I'm sure the groups would shrink. As always, a very interesting video.
Thank you!
Excellent testing on a nice selection of handguns! Glad to see the PPK/S do well, as I have an older German made PPK/S that I used to carry.
Also nice to see the SA Hellcat do well and win, although I was rooting for the S&W TS9 and the M&P 40C.
I may have to take another look at an SA Hellcat. The Canik TP9 Elite is very comparable to the Hellcat and has been on my "Wants" list.
You are a double action master. I wish I could squeeze off rounds with revolvers like you.
People sleeping on the cs9 chiefs special . The smallest and lightest third gen . Uses flat wire guide rod springs from factory, first time seeing that on 3rd gen . It literally handles 9 like Full size 5904 but it’s tiny .
Good morning HR. Or afternoon in Scotland. Another group of guns with very close performance. I think I would have blamed the errant shot with the M+P 40 on a gust of wind downrange.😀 The PPK might have done better in the second stage if fired from a crouch with the left hand gripping the right forearm. With the mandatory vodka martini,shaken not stirred. Have a great trip but be back in time to post the next video.
Thanks John! By the way, I can’t figure out why 007 liked Martinis so well when the whiskey here is so good.
Does an MQ-9 Reaper drone counts as a backup gun? Definitely the most accurate. If not, I guess I would go with my S&W Model 60 2.125" .357Mag or my original M&P9C (3.5" barrel, 12 shots). Love the M&P9C as it can use the same mags (and obviously ammo) as the full size M&P9.
I think technically it does, but I won’t be shooting one in the video.
That Walther PPK/S shot SA is a tack driver. The 13lb DA is tough though.
I do love that gun.
Well what do you know, I called it right
Although the t.i. did better than I thought it would
Regarding the sights, I haven't shot it yet, but putting a fiber optic front sight on my g2c has definitely made it easier to pick up
I think one thing to keep in mind is that there is a significant difference in mission between a "Backup Gun" and an "Off Duty Gun". Many people think they are the same thing, and it is true that some guns can flex into both roles. A backup gun is a firearm carried in addition to a presumably more capable primary firearm, for use in situations where that primary firearm fails, is taken, or when it is necessary to arm an otherwise qualified ally who is unarmed.
An off duty gun serves a different function. It is a primary arm to be carried by itself when an officer is on his own time, and less likely to be required to take law enforcement action. Some simply skip this gun and carry their full capability duty gun full time. This can be a reasonable choice.
For example as a cop in today's society, I'd carry a J-frame revolver as a backup gun, for close range, last ditch encounters, given the level of skill, or lack thereof displayed by most officers with these small guns. I think we can fairly include very small auto pistols such as the Ruger LCP and similar guns in this category, as I would your PPK/S. But, unless I was on vacation, far from my own jurisdiction, I don't think I'd carry such a gun as my sole firearm. Given the potential need for trained personnel to engage an active shooter, I'm not sure I'd carry one even then, unless it was my only option in a handgun.
I tend to think of guns such as your CS-9, your M&P Compact, and your Hellcat, the Shield (and a host of others) as off-duty guns. These maintain most of the capabilities of a duty gun, except in some cases for capacity. The test I use to determine what is a backup gun and what is an off-duty gun is what I call "The Walmart Test." Say you are appropriately trained with recent practice, and while shopping at the local Walmart, an active shooter situation erupts in the store. You may choose to take action with only the firearm and spare ammunition you have on you. If you can only hit well with your chosen small gun at 5-10 yards, and then only when you take your time, you are carrying what should have been a backup gun selected primarily for convenience. For purposes of my thought experiment, "hitting well" is defined as striking an 8.5x11 piece of copier paper under time pressure on a calm daylight range. This "target" is remarkably close to the vital area of a human.
On the other hand, if your pistol is just easier to conceal than your duty gun, while retaining full power and rapid reload capability, and you can hit well with it at 15-25 yards, then what you have is a great off-duty gun. Next time you are in a Walmart, pace off a merchandise aisle and ask yourself which type of gun you'd rather be carrying as your sole firearm when an incident happens. On the other hand, if you choose in such an incident to gather your family to you and only shoot if they are threatened by the active killer, your little backup gun will probably be fine. Just wait until they get close. If you are not a sworn officer, no one can reasonably fault you for making that tactical decision.
As for this test, the Hellcat would seem to offer the best of both worlds. I used to fill this hybrid function with a Glock 26 before other options became available such as the Hellcat and the Shield or Shield Plus. It is still a good choice. I was also particularly fond of the 12 shot M&P Compact in 9mm.
Thanks Tom. As I mentioned in the video, all of these handguns at one time or another served in the role of a “back-up gun.” Obviously, they changed up from time to time based upon a number of considerations.
Additionally, as you noted, some of them could also fill the role of an off-duty handgun. That category (again. as you stated) is a bit more complex and other dynamics need to be evaluated. I’m tempted to produce a video on that topic, but I suspect so many experts have already weighed in with their opinion that my thoughts on the matter might be largely ignored.
In any case, as always, thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!
Looking forward to this should be interesting as some of these can double as concealed carry guns. I've used them as second guns in uniform as well. ALWAYS carried a 2nd Gun even when it was not the norm.
Hey my friend I just wanted to let you know I have the notification bell on your feed but your videos are never offered to me. I have to search for them to find them. You know who tube must not like you. A five shot revolver was my constant companion for many, many years in the past. About twenty years ago I switched to the Glock platform as my primary weapon so started carrying a Glock 26/27. They have given my great service and the extra rounds in gun are always comforting. Great video as usual.
Thanks Max. You’re right, UA-cam does a horrible job of notifying my subscribers. Your best bet is to check my channel every 3 or 4 days to see if there’s a new video.
I get bored shooting from the benchat 25 yards but... .it is the only way to know if my gun/ammo combo is good and if the sights are close. For me 25 yards works out about the best for me.... closer? and I am not sure it is a good test for gun/ammo and sights.. farther? and too much human error on my part. I guess I am saying that if it works at 25 yards then I feel pretty confident that it will be in the ballpark at say 100 yards. I know... they are not made to shoot 100 yards but it is fun and nice to know it will hit a man sized target at that range.
Really interesting and enjoyable video. Delighted to see the PPK do so well (a half inch difference over the two drills compared to the Hellcat isn't really enough of a difference to make a difference ) but you have to give it to Springfield Armoury. The Hellcat is a nice pistol and the clue was there in your original review of it when that first group you shot was 'outstanding'. Thanks for the video.
Give it to HS-Produkt, that actually make them.
My pleasure Alan. Thanks for watching!
I did not know that. Thank you for correcting me.
My hellcat is very accurate and reliable as well. I haven’t even put a red dot on it yet which I think will really make it super accurate. It’s kind of surprising since my hellcat is the snappiest little gun I’ve ever fired. Just goes to show that even a gun that recoils heavy can still be an accurate in shooting drills.
This was a VERY enjoyable and most useful video, Howard; thank you.
I have an unimportant comment, but also one question which I believe is substantial and which I’d request “all hands” reply to, if they have an opinion.
Comment: My usual backup is a 2.25 inch barrel, Ruger SP101, chambered in .357 magnum but essentially always loaded with stout, proven efficacy, 38 Special +P’s. The SP:101 is somewhat heavier and larger than are S&W J frames, BUT that additional weight, that larger grip, that additional barrel length, and that greater sight radius (imho) combine to provide somewhat enhanced velocity, accuracy and follow-up shot speed. I’m absolutely not criticizing J Frames, but - for me - the marginal differences in concealment and comfort are far more than compensated for by the aforementioned advantages. I’ll add that the simplicity and reliability of revolvers (again, for me) make them a better backup option than autoloaders.
Key Question: For lawful defensive carry - by non-LEO’s - in relatively safe circumstances, is a backup sidearm truly necessary? I don’t believe it is, due to: (a) the probability of being involved in a legal armed defensive confrontation is VERY small (in fact, most criminals flee with the mere presentation of a firearm); (b) the probability of requiring more than four rounds to resolve such an encounter favorably is even smaller (LtCol Jeff Cooper, and many other experts, are in agreement with this); and (c) avoiding higher risk venues and circumstances is the wisest policy (a fight avoided is MUCH better than a fight won).
Therefore, I feel entirely safe and well-armed, at virtually all times, with a “backup” (my Ruger SP-101, or my Walther CCP M2, or my Kahr K4044) as my only firearm. Of course, I usually carry a sidearm that’s larger and has greater capacity, but when I cannot do so (e.g., occasions when formal business attire is appropriate) those “backup” weapons are (imho) more than adequate.
I’ll conclude by emphasizing that my preceding remarks are NOT applicable to law enforcement personnel (or quasi-LEOs like armored car guards, etc.), nor to those of us who must frequent more dangerous and higher crime areas, particularly at night.
Howard, I hope you and Mimi are having a terrific time in Scotland!
Generally speaking I don’t think most armed citizens need to worry about a back-up gun. I thought since my BUG selection was so similar to many people’s CCW options, however, that this comparison might still be of interest. As always, thanks for watching Roy!
Hello Roy. I agree with your choice of the Ruger SP101. I find it easier to shoot well than a J frame. Plus it's built like a tank and will probably last forever. I'm not law enforcement but have had concealed carry permits for over 40 years and taken it seriously. I've had training and shot competition. I've rarely carried a back up gun. I do carry extra mags or speed loaders. I have been using a 9mm compact more than the Ruger though. With 15 rounds it's like having 3 SP101s. With a quality pistol and ammo and training I think it's just as dependable. Yes, most encounters are resolved with less than 5 rounds. In many cases the presence of a gun can suffice without firing a shot. But things have changed since Jeff Cooper's time. Car jackings and home invasions with multiple assailants are more common now. Not long ago there was a drug deal shootout in a local mall parking lot. I would hate to be caught in that with only a revolver with 5 rounds.
@@hrfunk
Completely understand, Howard, and the demonstrated performance of your Hellcat absolutely is influencing me to purchase one (probably the “Pro,” with a 3.7 in barrel and somewhat greater capacity, BUT without the same design, quality, materials and especially those sights) as my EDC (in lieu of my M&P 1.0 police model in 9x10).
@@johnherr3579
I simply couldn’t agree more with all your points. Cooper was a true guru, but - you’re right - times unfortunately have changed. My “revolver simplicity” thought isn’t addressed to folks like us, who have been seriously shooting for a good many decades. Rather, it focuses on the new folks and/or those who rarely practice and really are not very interested in firearms. To illustrate this, deactivating that thumb safety may appear to be absolutely elementary, but I can’t count the number of times during my military career that I saw really simple things that were not completed quickly, or well, or at all under great stresses. Since I suspect those not-overly-competent folks probably are appreciably more than half America’s firearms owners, it seems to me that SIMPLICITY (plus safety and reliability) are immensely important.
@@roykiefer7713 I also agree with your points. I followed and learned from Jeff Cooper, Bill Jordan, Ed McGivern, and Massad Ayoob. At a PPC match in NH I went from right to left barricade and cross fired on Ayoob"s target next to mine. Very embarrassing. I just don't understand how someone can make the serious decision to carry and not train and practice to become proficient .
My dad was a " HELLCAT" in the 12th Armoured Division. He was also a gun guy he would have enjoyed this video as did I . For some Reason I felt the Cat would do well. Now I want one ! Springfield Bias I guess. Semper Fi.
Semper Fi Brian! If you get a Hellcat I think you’ll be quite happy with it.
all J frames are the same in that they all shoot very very accurately. differences in weight and caliber of course. My 'carry' J frame is the 340 PD in .357 My PPK in 32 auto is crazy accurate... as you say because of the fixed barrel... it does shoot a bit better than the .380 version in my opinion.. Along that line.. My 9mm Makarov shoots way better than most full size semi's I think.
Would not under estimate the 380 Walther. IMHO Walther should have updated the Walther with an alloy frame that would cut the weight by at least 4 ounces, added ambi safety, and night sights. That being said it is still a compact accurate 380, that unlike the Micro 380s is shootable , and with its 3.5 inch barrel throws 380 90-95 gr bullets at 950-1000 FPS. A 100 gr cast bullet can be loaded to over 900 fps, no weakling. I carried a Walther for years and never felt under gunned. Nice thing was I never appeared armed but was. For up close and personal , and beyond , it was and is still viable. Mine has been totally reliable with factory and reloaded ammunition. My Ppk is a stainless Interarms pistol, one of the first 500 off the US assembly line.
I like mine too. It’s a great little pistol.
Well done! I like this stuff!
The results from the PPK didn't surprise me. Fixed barrels are inherently mechanically accurate. My bersa thunder (fixed barrel) left the Ohio CCW instructor wondering if I slept with it since it left one ragged hole during the firing drill.
Good shooting! My Walther seems to impress me more and more every time I shoot it.
It’s an important training tip to always keep a backup
For most, you are lucky they carry one firearm.
By the way, I think it's a Great Title for this video! "MY" most accurate back-up gun. Seems some folks in the comments thought it was titled "The" most accurate back-up gun! Go figure!
"Front sight and press"
I am enjoying this series HR... Very interesting and fun.
Glad you enjoy it!
I would have gone home after the first 5 shots and had a beer
Howard. Did you give any details of your timer in the last videos? Brand and model?
I have mentioned it a few times. It’s made by Competition Electronics.
The Springfield armory isn't a back up to me but I carry it with the 15 round magazine I actually retired it for a revolver recently cause i print while carrying it
Hey HR has anyone ever mentioned you look similar to Major Chip Hazard from the movie Small Soldiers? Lol. I think it would be cool if you bought one of those action figures and put it on your bench.
I actually hear that pretty frequently. I think it’s funny.
I was impressed with how long you held the revolvers just b4 break point
The trick is to break the shot without altering the sight picture.
Great Shooting, Chief! 👍👍👍👍
Thanks Frank!
Given my anti-SA bias, I would've wanted the Hellcat to fail. But since it's something you bet your life on, I'm glad it did well for you.
Good firearms collection. Excelente vídeo. Saludos desde España. Taurus 9mm revólver would be Good choice
I am so sad CS9 got last place. I was hoping it would be in the first place :( Tears run down my eyes as I watch...
And regarding accuracy problems caused by resting on the bag ~ I have seen so many slow-mot videos showing the bullet has exited the muzzle long before the recoil comes into action. So, the accuracy problems caused by resting on the bag are entirely unsubstantiated, it's just a myth.
If resting on the bag causes accuracy problems, that would only mean the bullet exits the muzzle after the recoil. If that's the case. You got some serious problem; I tell you what.
I coulda been a contender
Good video Funk.... CP guy from V row.
In my experience the House of pain ammo tends to jump around. Up sometimes up highr then goes down
I haven’t noticed that before, but it could have been a bad round.
@@hrfunk screwing around... " Jump around" is a song by a music group (House of pain)
I know it's outside the scope of the video, but it would be interesting to factor in the controllability of the guns.
I think that more or less comes in during the 5 yard drill.
@@hrfunk yes
Wouldn't it have been a more honest approach to use your carry ammo ? POI varies with different ammo as does overall accuracy
Maybe, but I didn’t really want to burn it up.
You and I seem to be the only people in the world looking for an airweight snubnose hammerless revolver chambered for 9mm.
I really like the 9mm in that package. I think it’s more efficient than the .38 Special and it has less recoil and blast than the .357 Magnum. I would love to see a J-Frame titanium wheelie chambered for the 9mm.
Thnx
I thought the shots from the M&P40 c had two that traversed the same holes.
No, I found the shot hole. It was way off to the left.
Fun video and interesting results.
Thanks Bill!