I was in the fgc for 3 months now so i have a teeny tiny bit of exeqution and i can consistently do a 50% tengu combo i just press hk then i activate and i just mash the shit out of back mk and end in super really that easy why do players expect to just be good at a new fighting game like when u start out in let's say fortnite you don't spend 656746566 million hours in creative until you can built disney land ingame with planks before you play online.
If the FGC wants to grow, we need more events like this. Imagine a tourney like this where a bunch of streamers play a quick bracket every week. Could build storylines for casual viewers and shows the process of learning a FG in real time. Also can shine a light on FGC creators and competitors who coach and comentate in these events
it also needs to pay pro players better. this tournament was a "joke tournament" and the prize was 125k, that's more than half of what liquipedia says daigo made his entire career (I know daigo is not the most succe$$ful player, but he's like top 15)
@@Gabrol But this is literally advertisement with celebrities: the tournament, obviously there's a ton of money involved. I wouldn't be surprised if each of them were making 10k per stream slot participating either. It's akin to influencer boxing which also makes rivers of money because people just love watching celebrities do /things/ For the FGC to make esports money it would have to give up all the grit and grassroots style it tries to protect so much. Everything would be much more sterilized like Capcom Cup which Sajam is banned from for criticizing the game being played. Even then don't worry about Daigo, he makes good money from sponsorships that isn't tracked by Liquipedia.
@@RedPearl. yeah I'm not worrying about daigo, I know that he wouldn't play FGs if it wasn't worth it. But look at league of legends, riot invested a lot of money in championships and esports all by themselves and it paid off. And trying to "protect grit and grassroots style" is boomer talk imo
@@Gabrol It kinda is but it's also hard to deny the loudest part of the FGC is against the idea of the traditional e-sports and historically has pushed back companies trying to get hold of organization. Even Combo Breaker uses the "we're not e-sports" idea as a promotional tagline and that's a major tournament. But yeah, i agree. Riot's tourny funds really redefined e-sports as a whole and made people take Valorant more seriously. Huge pots and advertising contracts to assure Project L relevance will change the scene for the better.
"It's not hard to do, it's easy to miss." Exactly how I feel playing a shooter and me trying to hit anyone like I'm that guy in the bathroom from Pulp Fiction.
@@naquan59 Way to miss the point of the video... first off, I wasn't talking about TF2. I'm talking, say.. Tarkov. Where hiding in the bathroom is actually a real mechanic :P Jokes aside.. the point was that saying "Just do X" (in FPS it's 'click heads', in fighting games it's 'do combo', in RTS it's 'build order', etc etc) is kinda pointless. It's not just games, either. I'm learning how to inline skate (at 32). When you look up how to, say, turn.. the tutorial person goes "just lean this way". Meanwhile I'm struggling to stay standing up and not fall over. EVERYTHING requires different skills, and everything takes time.
@@naquan59 And from person to person. What some might consider easy is harder for others. For me getting into fighting games was pretty easy when I actually understood the game mechanics. FPS games like valorant or cod were hard for me to get into, because I could maybe get the timing of combos down, but not the precise mouse movement needed for headshotting.
@@naquan59 tf2 is one of the most beginner friendly shooters out there, with Soldier and Heavy being probably the two easiest charcters to use at a basic level in the game due to splash damage and continuous fire. Skullgirls was the first game made by a company that, while experienced, couldn't have realistically expected to get a lot of attention from new players unless those new players had other fg veterans to help them learn. Put someone who has never played a shooter in, say, apex, and leave for 3 hours and you will not find a player who understands what they're doing when you come back, or at least they certainly won't feel like they know what they're doing
Ultimately, my takeaway from this is that It's awesome to see people play games like how a kid messes with a toy box. They experiment, break stuff, learn what they like/dislike, and just enjoy the process. Everyone should approach something new like this.
ehhhh he was learning what he disliked. Lol Srsly tho I don’t blame people for losing it, some people aren’t built for it. Like me I just don’t stream my failure lmao
It's not about raging. It's about getting over the rage and improving to a point where you actually enjoy the game. Fighting games can be harsh in telling you all the time how bad you are. Oh you got hit, can't move you're in hit stun. Oh you got hit alot, now you are stunned. Oh you got hit too much, YOU LOSE. And now go for another one.
@@darkgoblin5681 iss a video game, I’m supposed to be enjoying playing it. “Bro I promise you raw snail is delicious you just gotta crunch through the shell first” like it’s food lmao it ain’t doin its job. Or at least not until after you spend hours and hours on it, and some people just wanna play a game and have fun.
@@Caleb-zl4wk I understand where you're coming from, but your particular analogy is a little misguided. We clearly see in the video that people with no experience can have fun even if they don't understand the complexities of the game, or if there is a learning curve. That's why I used my initial comparison; it's all about the perspective at which you approach something.
@@BigBoiBryant77 I like to think (and you don't have to) that there are some people who play because they enjoy improving, and some people who play because they enjoy winning. That's an oversimplification, it's really a spectrum, but the point is, you see the Emiru person and she just spammed and had fun... but only because she won. And the other dudes loved combos because they got them down. Those instincts to stop playing vary by intensity with the people is all I'm saying; and consequently some people fight them and others don't, because they really don't have to. So I don't jive with the whole idea of "it's all about an improvement mindset" because... well that idea a. Ignores disposition, like I brought up, but b. can be applied uniformly to dag-near every other area of life, and yet people don't show the same progress everywhere. Cuz sometimes all it is is winning good, losing bad.
My girlfriend does not play FPS games. I got her to play through Bioshock 1 & she only used the wrench because she struggles with aiming & shooting. She also needs to take frequent breaks because the first person view point makes her nauseous unlike third person. Gamers have been gaming for so long that they completely forget what a complete beginner is like. I don't understand why they think if you are good at 1 genre you're good at them all!
I played a vr game with hand-to-hand combat for the first time a few days ago, and that shit was disorienting both spacially and from trying to use totally different controllers. Definitely something I'll be keeping in mind if I ever try to teach someone a game I'm familiar with
I've been playing games for forever but I happen to not vibe with shooters, so when I've tried to play them this has been my exact experience. People should play genres they're entirely unfamiliar with to see how it feels, its an interesting experience
I'll never forget the time I got a Playstation 2 after having only a Nintendo 64. It took me SO LONG to grasp the concept of using a second analog stick to rotate a camera while I walked. Ever since that moment, as a whole ass child, I learned to have empathy towards newbies touching new things and not take my skills for granted.
"You're supposed to find something that's strong and fun to do, and then do that thing until the other person dies." I think this is (PvP) gaming distilled into its purest form here. Words to live by.
@Fundamentally Unorthodox I think you do not understand what meta even means, or what a "Meta slave" is, especially in the context of a fighting game, playing a good fun character feels fun, if they're meta, hey its because a lot of other people think they're good and fun, and wanting to learn how to be more effective is itself fun, which means learning what others find effective and going "Hmm I sure do concur that you beat that man black and blue with that technique good fellow" and trying it out themselves, thats not blind slavery, thats cooperative learning Would you call a wood carver a "meta slave" for using the tools that work, that other people have proven work, with lessons from those who make them work?
One thing I always remember whenever Fighting Game Discourse takes place, is the experience of watching seasoned video game players trying SM64 for the first time, flopping around all over the place like toddlers because nobody had ever played a 3D platformer before. But moving mario is fun. And when you learn to do it better, pulling off sick flips and wall kicks and looking for shortcuts and twerking on the stages and enemies is fun. That's, like, how games are. Fighting games are no exception. Neither are shooters. I've never found the fun in Mobas but i assume there's a redeeming factor there too.
This event is bittersweet for me. It's awesome that these people enjoyed our games and had a big tournament, it was hype and fun, but IMAGINE if Capcom had the forsight to schedule this tournament alongside a free weekend or a price drop or something for SFV. Imagine how many people would try SF to try and streamsnipe LIRIK and end up liking FG as a result.
I remember that point where a bunch of chess streamers got together with the most popular streamers and coached them on playing chess. I would love to see something similar with pro SF streamers coaching the biggest names on twitch.
SF V has been on sale like many times. Sony/Capcom even gave it for free on PS+. The game is dirt cheap right now where you can get the vanilla copy for 10 bucks or less.
Many people have to realize that moving into an ENTIRELY NEW GENRE is a HUGE jump into the unknown. I come from platformers as a kid and can't shoot for my life in any fps. But that's just how it is. MOBAs are an entirely different skillset and fighting games are entirely different, and map games are entirely different. I'm glad many of these people (noko) have seen what it's like for other people to jump into their genres for the first time, and hopefully they keep that mindset when bringing in new people for their genres.
I love lirik cause out of all the variety streamers, he went from disliking fighting games to genuinely respecting and loving the feeling of "getting good" He said it best when someone asked why he was streaming MK11 after the tournament: "it reminds me of why I liked league. The beginning was fun because I was just messing around, and then when I found someone or something really cool, I wanted to get good at them."
It's easy to get frustrated when you don't understand why you lost. Most shooters these days have kill cams, so you can just see, "oh, damn it, he was waiting in that corner the whole time," but fighting games frequently don't explain things like frame data or command grabs, and definitely not right in the post-match screen. It would be cool if they did.
There's a post match screen in melee that tells you things like how often you were gra bed, spammed the same move, etc. I wish a more well thought out version of that existed.. "40% of the damage you took started from aerial combos. 30% was grabs. You spent 60% of the set in the corner. Etc."
Fighting Games have the most "hidden" information of any genre outside of maybe RPGs (have you ever play a JRPG or an Action RPG that ever explained how their stat systems work beyond "big number good, small number bad"?). And EVEN WHEN ITS PROPERLY EXPLAINED, the game will send you a character that literally BREAKS THE RULES the game just spent time explaining to you. Its like Pokken Tournament when the game explained it's "Triangle" color system about what attacks and blocks beat what UNTIL you meet characters that are so fast that they break it or Chandlluer who just doesn't interact with it. These are MOTHER FUCKING **GAME DESIGNERS** that have been doing this for decades, and they can't see how teaching a games rules and then having "trap characters" and unexplained matchups this way would piss off beginners?! Like what do you think is going to happen?!
@@Chymistry I think probably the best way to go about it, which should be plenty feasible to implement on a technical level, is to start off showing you something you did really well, like your hype/highlight reel, then point out where you got hit and what you could have done differently. Detecting things like using an unsafe move in a block string. Then find which thing you screwed up would have the biggest impact on improving your play, and that's the suggestion the game makes to you after your hype reel. "Looks like you got SPDed 17 times. Try jumping when Zangief is close."
modern fighting games give you lots of tools to improve (replays, training mode, challenges, frame data, move lists, etc). They don't explain what any of it means or give you much strategy, but the tools themselves are usually there.
8:57 When I tell new players to ANY game which character to play it's always one of two things: Pick the one that looks coolest to you I tell them the character who has the -highest- lowest skill floor Because when you don't know the rules of the game, the character with the highest skill ceiling is irrelevant if nobody can take advantage of it.
@@user-km7yr8wl6q Actually, I can get the logic of pointing out who has the highest skill floor. It's like telling them not be discouraged if the guy they like just happens to be particularly complex for a beginner, and possibly an implicit "the game as a whole isn't this hard, it's just this one guy."
The only issue with this being if you reach competition depending on how shit your luck is you can suffer immensely based on characters strength/matchups.
@@lurryfgc3292 If you've reached competition level, you probably don't need to worry about any of this. The difficulty in getting players to play fighting games is to get people to start.
@@user-km7yr8wl6q Imo, getting people to start is what already happens. People pick a fighting game up because it looks and sounds cool. Play against the cpu for a while and has fun with it, then decide to play with other people, get completely demolished, discouraged ane never picks up the game again. I believe this's the reason why fighting games get a huge drop on active players after a month or less from launch. I tried to break away from this state for years and just ended up giving up. It's not worth the hassle and time and there's so many other fun games and genres to pick up instead that are also challenging but fun and enjoyable, or even skills and crafts that you could learn with the same time and effort invested to learn a fighting game xD
I'm confused as to why SFV was the only non-shooter for the AT&T event (aside from Dead by Daylight). I imagine if one of the shooter were replaced by a RTS or a moba they've never played before, there would be similar levels of salt.
Almost all of them are FPS wth?? there should be more variety for each game to spice things up. Something like puyo puyo tetris, rocket league, literally any moba, some platformer perhaps, etc.
Yeah, I am honestly surprised they didn't put any moba's in that tournament. I think it was like 3 fps games, 1 team survival horror game, and 1 fighting game. Would have been cool if they took out the other 2 fps games and replace it with some type of competitive puzzle game like tetris or puyo puyo, and some retro platformer game like Ninja gaiden, Castlevania, megaman, mario, sonic or something. Would have been cool to see that type of versatility in the tournament.
@@methanesulfonic I’m surprised rocket league wasn’t involved. If the tournament was Five games, I’d like to see a shooter, a fighter, a racing game, something in its own genre like rocket league and like, comp Tetris or something I’d avoid mobas simply because I’m trying to keep things to 1v1 combat
I do get it. As a spectator, I have an easier time following RTS and FPS I've never touched than I did trying to watch fighting games before I got into the genre myself. I definitely don't think playing Street Fighter is harder than, say, 1v1 Starcraft, but I *do* think the difficulty of fighting games is a little more deceptive. There aren't as many obvious moving parts and more of the complexity is happening "under the hood" so to speak, which can be frustrating. This might be why there's so much discourse about motion inputs. It's not that motion inputs are actually that hard; it's just that they're the most obvious, surface level, "hard thing" that new players can point to as a barrier to fun and success.
RTS & FPS games are the exact same way. Fighting games aren’t unique at all as a spectator genre. It’s all about what you’re familiar with, and your personality type. I don’t play RTS & FPS games, and I’ve tried in the past to watch some tournaments for stuff like Starcraft and Overwatch, and it’s close to impossible for me to follow what is happening, even with the aid of commentators. And trying to actually play the games feels even more daunting. This is not to say that I couldn’t do it if I dedicated enough time to it. My point is just that the narrative seem to often be that these genres are inherently more easy to grasp vs fighting games, when that just isn’t the case. Some things just comes easier to some people than to others.
@@doommaker4000 I have. It’s even faster and more confusing. It’s like somebody having a hard time following a Street Fighter match and suggesting they watch MvC3 instead
Its 2 different skillsets. Like obviously strategy is important for both but my starcraft units aren't suddenly gonna do less damage if I cant 236 consistently
As glad as I am to see a new upload, the fact that this topic needs to be repeated so many times in different ways is pretty sad :( Make sure ya'll share this stuff for non fg players! spread the good word and maybe more people can get to have fun.
You know, I can honestly not do this to my friends in good faith. Fighting games aren't for everyone. I loved when I first picked up tekken 5 and hammered at the online or the dojo and practiced all the cool shit but my friends aren't the type of people that can handle these games. Stressing them out isn't something I wanna do to them.
I honestly feel like the root of this mistifying of fighting games as the hardest genre of games is that fighting games have always come from japan and mainstream fg media has lagged behind every other genre. Most kids don't grow up playing tournaments on lan like they do with fortnite or other games that have been through the mainstream lens.
Most kids playing Fortnite aren’t playing tournaments either. They’re playing around in the game with their friends because it’s free. Part of the mistifying of fighting games is the lack of access from fewer arcades, and other genres taking FGs place as the “hangout game”
It doesn't help that fighting games have a serious elitism problem. If a beginner watches League they see the skills and go "Oh thats cool, I can do that", because most of the skill is happening in ways that aren't apparent to new players. If a beginner watches a fighting game, they see these crazy high--execution combos and think that you aren't really playing the game unless you're doing the stuff the top 5% of players are rolling out. Then they go online and all the reddit scrubs hit them with the frame data instead of just telling them to go mash their favorite buttons until someone dies.
Shooting games are wack tho tbf "Yeah yeah you pointed at that guys head perfectly and shot him first with a stronger gun but the random spread means you missed and the other guy sniped you with an SMG because fuck you."
It's impressive how Sajam's videos seem to find their way to me exactly when I need them most. I've started playing Yugioh Master Duel for the past few of months and I've experienced this exact range of emotions. I've been the guy who laughs maniacally but I've also been on the receiving end of some bullshit. I feel like the emotions are much more enhanced because the way that Master Duel prices deckbuilding makes it so even if you make a big investment on a deck you want to play you're not guaranteed to win in the least, so the emotions are even greater and more fervorous because you feel like you wasted so much of your time.
I mean... I'll be honest. As someone that DOES play card games from time to time and has played many different ones, I still don't want to touch Yugioh precisely because of how Konami handles balance and banlists. Games that have a constantly shifting balance curve to the point that old decks become non-playable at anything but the most beginner level are exhausting. This is especially true of games where the majority of your deck is expected to be taken up by rare cards that have a less than 1% drop rate (or cost up to hundreds of dollars for a physical copy). Joke and more obscure theme decks are certainly playable against CPUs and lower tier play, but games like that tend to limit creativity and expression at even starter competitive play and instead focus on how well you can optimize your play for a handful of well-defined strats to counteract luck elements.
Not to mention once you get into Silver Rank your whole game plan has to change because you're playing against dudes who's decks are designed to not let you play Yu-Gi-Oh.
@@jwm1444 as a yu-gi-oh player that started since early 2000s that stopped after the pendulum stuff, that is pretty much yu-gi-oh. Destroy the field and negate your way to victory while gaining card advantage XD. There's a reason why the strongest cards are the ones that are immune to some or all of this or do it as well.
I relate to this so much. I tried starting SFV with Sagat and had fun for a while, but my mind started getting mired in just watching spacing, and I hit a wall when I ran into players that were able to take advantage of how slow I was processing things. I switched to Cody for a day and started having fun again.
I know this guy was giga extra salty at the start because he was in a tournament but honestly when i began playing Fighting games i didn't get as salty as i do now that i know how to play.
me in street fighter iv spamming the lariat as zangief, until cammy players started getting under it with spiral arrow and i was like “ok i need to actually learn the game now”
Did you see the HiFight breakdown of the Emiru clip on Twitter? Not only was it hilarious, but he even showcased possible solutions her opponent could have done to beat the slaps
Sajam usually has amazing takes on things. Great video, I was so confused when I saw other videos discussing making fighting games easier because of that clip. It made zero sense to me. Using that line of thinking, we should make every game easier
I’m flattered to be called a superior player instead of a glue eater but I assure you we’re not cut from a different cloth, I’m not sure how to take this please return to calling me a glue eater
This is why I love mystery tournaments. Idk if they have them outside of Combo Breaker/UFGT, but theyre so amazing. The process of rapidly assessing character strengths, finding what seems broken, and abusing it until the opponent finds their own dumb strong counter to it is such a blast. The only exception is when you actually know the shitty obscure game in your bracket. See me in Snowboard Kids 2 if you wanna get fucking smoked.
@@yololoyo7379 big business brings the fight money. Maybe if we trick Elon Musk into thinking hit confirming is impossible, he'll buy the FGC and put guilty gear in the Olympics (but only after naming the next expansion after his child).
I don't play fighting games but I do play card games competitively like Magic the Gathering. I watch a lot of your videos like this discussing peoples complaints in fighting games and it is fascinating how you could almost every one of those videos and substitute the word fighting for card and the video mirror's the exact complaints I see in the card game sphere.
I would like to see these same streamers try to actually play and learn SFV again or any fighting games, just without the pressure of playing in a tournament of a unknown game with thousands of dollars on the line 😂
When I saw my friend use stun dipper to whiff punish. I screamed in joy. And then I said, "now use 6h and make me scream louder" he started playing Chipp.
Well as far as difficulty is concerned, it's interesting to note that many people picked Falke or Ed. Some of them even said that them not having motions on specials was the thing that made them choose those characters. So there is a clear intimidation factor with motions, so maybe it would be smart to have those types of non-motion characters to make getting into the game less intimidating.
Agreed. This was the reason why I got into original Killer Instinct on SNES when I was a kid, because Cinder is an easy character that I could do combos just pressing 66MP. Even tho I don't play with him anymore (I switched to Fulgore later on), Cinder showed me how KI and fighting games can be fun and rewarding.
I never understood this, honestly. I was 4 years old when I learned to throw a Hadoken, and it took me about a week to figure out. I would think that your typical late-teens or early-20s gamer could get it in a fraction of that time. And hell, the motion hasn't changed in 35 years. It's literally older than some of these people's parents, it's not exactly new information.
@@rachelespiritu4215 probably because while the idea has been there for a long time. Motion inputs are not common in the grand scheme of video games, since usually controls focus on what sets of buttons you press, or what direction you hold while pressing a button, instead of making a motion with your stick before using a button. That sounds pretty understandable to me.
@@rachelespiritu4215 The motions aren't tough. But if you can't do them *very* quickly, shit like linking DPs (which is still basic, entry-level stuff) is pretty damn hard.
Whenever I pick up a new franchise for the first time, I like to try every single character and pick the one I had the most fun with. I rarely ever end up playing a top tier out of the gate, but it's funny when the character I picked day 1 gets buffed to the moon like 3 months later
When I watched Noko he definitely had some ideas on WHAT to do. I totally understand the 1st time playing though it's HARD when you're not at the headspace you need to be to enjoy fgs 100% imo
I suck at fighting games, but I love Soulcalibur. I can definitely say that some of my most fun gaming moments were messing around with Siegfried in training mode and finding a simple move and realizing "Oh! I think I can actually pull this one off!"
Always wanted to get into fighting games as an fps player myself. Glad Sajam’s content exists for when I finally take the plunge one day and decide on a game.
Tangentially related, I started a small tournament for my friends for tough love arena, and the simplicity of the game made me feel comfortable enough that it’s the first fighting game where I’ve really gone to training mode to practice and lab things out. Was a very enlightening experience, that
what i think is interesting is that, in your rebuttle where you use the same argument for a shooter, i think you actually pointed out an open flaw that shooters do share with fighting games: theyre actually not super good at teaching either and are just leaning on the popularity of the genre to onboard players. hear me out so in fighting games you have a lot of shit going on when the round starts. you can move in X different directions, all your buttons do different things, and most of them do different things depending on what direction you're holding. there are hidden mechanics you cannot see and more have to "feel" to understand like plus frames. your character doesnt come with a starter manual just a huge list of special moves. tons of shit is going on, is what im trying to say here compare that to shooters; you can move in X directions, you have a lot of buttons, there are hidden mechanics like jump prevention to prevent abuse of something that makes you hard to shoot, your character doesnt come with a guide and some games dont even have characters per se but your primary gun makes you player very differently. like FG's, shooters have a lot going on. the difference? most people have played a shooter but what happens when you get someone who doesnt play games to play a shooter? they encounter all the same problems gamers encounter when they pick up a FG, they dont know what the fuck is going on and it seems completely unapproachable. you *do* have to be pixel perfect to hit enemies, especially with head shots; you do need good movement fundamentals to avoid being hit; you do need to learn about crosshair placement and how to peek effectively at different areas of the map. do they teach you any of this? no. they might have training grounds and maybe even scenarios built to get you in the right frame of mind (valorant's plant/defuse training modes) but they arent teaching you how to place your crosshairs or how to slice the pie shooters *are* difficult, they're just more popular FGs are only unique in that their skills are generally non-transferrable unless you play a shitload of side-scrolling beat'em ups (and who plays those?). so youre essentially starting from scratch in a genre that values mechanical depth and complexity to challenge itself, which gives it a high skill floor. but is that floor any higher than the floor in learning shooters for the very first time? i dont really think it is, to be honest
Tbh as a fighting game fan I was baffled at how absolutely dogshit I am at river city girls so I'm not sure that the skills really translate to any other genre lmao
In most fps games you just put the guys face in the middle of the screen and you shoot. It's a natural concept to hit a target with a projectile. Fighting games are doing something very different. And most people aren't really oblivious to any genre. If you play video games you probably play a lot of games or at least have
@@Theyungcity23 natural to us yeah, that's my point punching a guy is pretty natural too innit? you can very easily frame anything as "natural concept" when youve been playing games your whole life
The thing is, fighting games used to be considered the accessible and fair genre, and nothing about them has changed. In platformers, you can be caught offguard by breaking floors, offscreen projectiles, instakill spikes, etc. In shooters, you're playing a new map for the first time, you can be sniped anytime by an enemy you've literally never seen because they never even appeared on your screen. Even old school beat-em-ups had bosses with bizarre s and instant-kill attacks just to eat your tokens. But the beauty of fighting games is that you can never lose to something you didn't see coming. You and your opponent are looking at the exact same screen, your opponent never has more information than you, whether you win or lose is entirely within your control from the first second to the last. And really, none of these things have changed. The games still function more or less the same way they did 30 years ago. What's changed is that other genres have given players alternatives to losing. Action-adventure games no longer have limited lives. RPGs just let you buy victories through DLC. And shooters... well, shooters gave you teammates to blame. Fighting games are still every bit as accessible as they've always been, they're just the last genre to figure out how to protect you from losing.
So I pretty much agree with you except for one thing. I think there's an amount we could make fighting games easier/more accessible. And all I mean is small things like better learning tools (Strive combo trials), some lower level obvious combos (TFH ABC jump ABC style combos), and things along those lines. Give people ways to more easily think they're playing fighting games and it should make the experience of getting into them better.
I like guilty gear's use of Gatling combos (literally just press normals in the right order and you get a simple ez "combo" that can be a starting point for learning proper combos)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: fighting games wouldn't be perceived as difficult if their onboarding experience wasn't so abysmal to climb over. Emiru here probably wouldn't have found this strategy she had so much fun with if she hadn't been guided there by BrianF. But just that little bit of help got her to a spot where, should she chose to, she could go much much further than someone trying to learn by themselves. Fighting games themselves need better onboarding so that being a new player is less overwhelming and information is communicated more upfront.
That said, I do really like events like this and hope more start happening to show that, with time and guidance, anyone can learn fighting games at a basic level.
@@victorprati7908 Have you tried playing them? FG tutorials are a terrible chore to get through, often with annoying walls of text. This is not how most games teach people how to play. Hell, I can't currently think of any game being that bad at it.
@@doommaker4000 Xenoblade chronicles 2 has tutorials throughout the entire game and still misses very important details but yeah as a genre entirely fighting games are easily the worst.
I WAS WAITING FOR THIS! I was watching from the beginning and could not wait to see this be clipped and be a topic for you or anyone to talk about, finally!
i'd love to see that dude play a random fighting game from the 90s and get his butt spanked because he'll realize too late that there was no playing with your forehead and do "crazy fucking combos" ahahah
Fighting games are like real combat sports where people who don’t do them imagine they will be naturally good at it for some weird reason. The people who get good are the ones who get over their ego after they get smacked around.
to be honest in my pov its really hard to get into fighting games. you need a passion to get good. i remember playing sf5 im really pissed my opponent constantly jump on me and get a combo after hit, it almost made me quit then later on i found a character that fits my playstyle and hand motion. get a grip on the game first , then let urself lose over and over but learn from it. 200 ~ 300 hours of playing u will start to get good at the game. you will see those fireballs jump ins you can react properly into mixup grabs etc. just learn the mechanics of the game
One of the most unfortunate side effects of this event is people now have the wrong impression of Noko... Noko's an apex player and one of the sweetest individuals out there, generally regarded as a natural homie. Pretty tragic that now the whole fgc knows him as that one guy who got mad at street fighter... hopefully people look into him further than just that layer.
At genesis... rushdown revolt had a tournament specifically made for begginers. The developers just had a blast looking at people get their footing in playing their game
The forehead line definitely refers to playing Eddie, smashing buttons and have him spin all over the place. I absolutely remember doing that when I was like 8-9 years old :D If I never got into fighting games after that, I’d definitely feel what he’s saying.
"your powerlevel is higher than someone playing it the 'right' way" flashbacks of me pickibg sfv coz abigail and spamming abigailrun flip kic, good times
My experience with Apex Legends was I played three games in the course of ten minutes because I would drop down and get shot to death by somebody offscreen. At least in fighting games what happened is fuckin visible
At least in Apex I know that I got shot from offscreen and should have been more careful, in Street Fighter a bunch of *crazy bullshit* starts happening in 0.2 seconds and you need to parse which attack of the 40-something character roster is happening and what you should do about it and then execute whatever that is out of the 20-something things you could have done in that milisecond. In Apex it's literally just "stop standing out in the open and use your fucking eyeballs". It took me 10 hours tops to be decent at Apex and in the meantime I at least felt like I was playing the game. SF would take 100 to feel like I was playing the game and 300 to feel like I was competent.
When i saw some guy in counter strike do a backflip into a grenade throw that landed across the map and wipes the enemy team or some shit i was like 0.o
Aye man... "you can watch a 10 minute video [on how to shoot in an FPS]" , but i feel like he didn't watch any of the tutorials for his character, he just did what he wanted ya know.
As usual, I was having a pretty good time with the event until I decided to look at Twitter. I don't know why people keep taking scrubquotes so seriously.
Because they’re salty that the devs will probably listen to people who struggle because things are unclear, than the people who put in unhealthy amounts of time to learn shit that should not require outside resources to learn.
I think this criticism is actually MORE valid for modern non-fighting games. 20 years ago you really did have to read the whole damn manual and practice offline to get competitive at SF or MK while you could drop into a Quakeworld lobby and it was just obvious what you were supposed to do. If you handed someone TF2 today and and told them to play it, wtf would they do? It never tells you why your teammates will randomly change color and shape and insta-kill you with a knife, or why everyone else is hitting buildings with wrenches. How does anyone play League or DoTA, for that matter? There are so many systems to memorize and so many characters and roles to understand. Fighting games follow a relatively reliable, set pattern of systems and controls compared to that.
The difference between shooters and fighters, though, is conveyance. In a shooting game it's very easy to understand how input correlates to output. Fighting games are way more disconnected with buffering and readability because the rock-paper-scissors is so much more complicated than a drop-in viewer can understand. High level arena FPS went though this argument too. Games like CPMA are just completely unwatchable because almost all the strategy is happening the players' heads, or around blind corners where they shot a rocket 3 seconds ago knowing it would land a preemptive hit.
Yeah, when you are trying to learn FGs, definitely start with the character you think is the coolest. Unless that character happens to be Zato. Don’t be like me. Don’t play 150 hours of training mode trying to do negative edges on a ps5 controller, just to learn how to do basic stuff like loops and blockstrings, then proceed to get stomped by actual humans mashing 24/7 because you have zero clue about how to play the game. But I must admit, the fact Zato was so cool to me gave me the motivation I needed to actually keep trying. Eventually I reached floor 10 and called it a day, I regret nothing. … maybe should have picked Ky. Oh well.
The thing people dont understand is that this is how hawaiianshirtman feels every time he presses transform. He feels like this every second he plays videogames. Imagine how rich his experience is. We simply hope we can become hsm
I mean its hard to not focus on difficulty but eventually I had to treat the difficulty of a lot of video games as an extremely valuable feature and that chain failing was valuable for content! At first I did not take this seriously even when I became a Veteran at a variety of different video games Elden Ring however threw all of that to the wind as it was the first game where it felt like I could NEVER avoid a lot of chain failing to get a victory this honed my perception of difficulty value like no modern game ever had... I'm not sure why Elden Ring itself truly honed this concept like no previous video game ever had for me but it did and the game does repay you in a number of ways including the fact it looks AMAZING!
i like fighting games but i just get overwhelmed with all these extra mechanics like supers, meter burns and all the game specific intricacies. for me i'm just good knowing what button does what and actually using the correct button when i want to use that button. but it's a tough skill check to beat when the other player starts doing combos on you and you have to struggle for each and every read you make only for them to make considerably less reads and kill you faster which kinda forces you to learn to combo aswell before you start making good headway.
Honestly the best take on this topic so far, especially as you covered more than one person participating in this tournament. I do get the salt though, since SFV is not exactly the easiest game on the market. I feel he would have had a much more positive experience playing a game with easy inputs and simple combos like Granblue. I feel these kind of events should be done more often and with a more varied selection of games to get people to try different genres. They might find something they like. And then we had him ragequit over way more unconventional stuff (Rhythm Games, Puzzle Games, Sports Games, whatever is played competitively) and thus paint a more accurate picture.
@@Theyungcity23 A lot. Keep in mind though, what is difficult and what is not differs from person to person, so I wouldn't say game X is easier than game Y, but rather where the challenges of each game lies. As for Street Fighter V that is mostly playing proper footsies and tight hit confirms. KoF XV also has tight hitconfirms, but more of an unga bunga neutral, which is easier for many I'd say. Most other 2D Fighters on the market have way easier hit confirms, whether it is DBFZ, GBFV, MBTL, GGST. So I'd say all of these games are easier in those aspects, which make them easier for me.
I remember someone saying, someone who played fighting games btw, that they hated VF4 because you had to get a masters degree to play it properly. Mashing definitely gives you a higher power level because of one word "unpredictability". You cannot bait a masher. You cannot read a masher. You cannot predict a masher. You cannot force a masher into the corner. You CAN, however, exploit their lack of game knowledge.
My takeaway is that not everyone enjoys the learning process of a weird game if there is more than a hundred thousand dollars on the line And also that people can manage to.enioy my favorite experience about fighting games even with that pressure: figuring something out, applying and thriving through your very own credit
I may be biased because I'm primarily an FPS player, and I'm more than willing to change my opinion on this, but I genuinly feel like fighting games are just harder. You can become better at fps games by just playing them because every game is practice for aiming. In fighting games, if you don't take the time to lab matchups, it will take you an enormous amount of time to figure out the answers. Sometimes when you encounter a matchup that you don't know how to deal with, it's very unlikely that you will find the answer during the match, so you will inevitably lose hence the frustration. It takes alot of knowledge in the game, before you can get to strategize it feels to me. It may also be that most people when playing fighting games only derive pleasure from winning and not just playing the game which makes them not enjoy the game when losing. I don't know.. maybe fighting games are just never going to be mainstream and we just have to accept that.
I used to play fps alot and improvement coming naturally never felt like a thing. Getting the basic idea of positioning is one thing but actually figuring out how to flank x y and z positions and where those leave you vulnerable (as well as the routing to and from) on a map to map basis felt like those all needed extensive labbing to actually figure out, if I actually wanted to be half decent lol
Speaking as a newcomer to fighting games. I think the real issue for beginners is that not all fighting games are very good at teaching you how to play the game. You know some games just stuff a command list in your face and the most basic ass tutorial and then say go.
Big Wheel enjoyer. It makes the big wheels in my brain turn which makes me feel good! I got that same feeling in the Strive beta, I spiritually felt Nago to be my main, then I found Beyblade. The rest was history.
Dude that was ranting made me feel good to be a fighting game player no lie haha. But that e Honda clip where did you find that at? Where she's spamming 100 hand slap
I've been playing fighting games for 18 years and I still freak out when I discover some new random bullshit on a new character or using a new mechanic. If you can't find a part of yourself who knows exactly how it feels to repeat hundred hands on Honda, you've lost something precious and don't even know it.
"bro fighting games are mad hard fr fr" - player that clocked into sfv for less than two hours and is trying to do twitter clip tengu stone combos
I was in the fgc for 3 months now so i have a teeny tiny bit of exeqution and i can consistently do a 50% tengu combo i just press hk then i activate and i just mash the shit out of back mk and end in super really that easy why do players expect to just be good at a new fighting game like when u start out in let's say fortnite you don't spend 656746566 million hours in creative until you can built disney land ingame with planks before you play online.
There still is a big gap to learning
KI just goated for this reason. Not hard to log on and just do 50 percent
KI is goated for so many reasons.
If the FGC wants to grow, we need more events like this. Imagine a tourney like this where a bunch of streamers play a quick bracket every week. Could build storylines for casual viewers and shows the process of learning a FG in real time. Also can shine a light on FGC creators and competitors who coach and comentate in these events
This sounds so cool and I want it now.
it also needs to pay pro players better.
this tournament was a "joke tournament" and the prize was 125k, that's more than half of what liquipedia says daigo made his entire career (I know daigo is not the most succe$$ful player, but he's like top 15)
@@Gabrol But this is literally advertisement with celebrities: the tournament, obviously there's a ton of money involved. I wouldn't be surprised if each of them were making 10k per stream slot participating either. It's akin to influencer boxing which also makes rivers of money because people just love watching celebrities do /things/
For the FGC to make esports money it would have to give up all the grit and grassroots style it tries to protect so much. Everything would be much more sterilized like Capcom Cup which Sajam is banned from for criticizing the game being played. Even then don't worry about Daigo, he makes good money from sponsorships that isn't tracked by Liquipedia.
@@RedPearl. yeah I'm not worrying about daigo, I know that he wouldn't play FGs if it wasn't worth it.
But look at league of legends, riot invested a lot of money in championships and esports all by themselves and it paid off.
And trying to "protect grit and grassroots style" is boomer talk imo
@@Gabrol It kinda is but it's also hard to deny the loudest part of the FGC is against the idea of the traditional e-sports and historically has pushed back companies trying to get hold of organization. Even Combo Breaker uses the "we're not e-sports" idea as a promotional tagline and that's a major tournament.
But yeah, i agree. Riot's tourny funds really redefined e-sports as a whole and made people take Valorant more seriously. Huge pots and advertising contracts to assure Project L relevance will change the scene for the better.
"It's not hard to do, it's easy to miss." Exactly how I feel playing a shooter and me trying to hit anyone like I'm that guy in the bathroom from Pulp Fiction.
Everything comes with time. You have to put in the work if it doesn't come naturally my dude.
@@naquan59 Way to miss the point of the video... first off, I wasn't talking about TF2. I'm talking, say.. Tarkov. Where hiding in the bathroom is actually a real mechanic :P
Jokes aside.. the point was that saying "Just do X" (in FPS it's 'click heads', in fighting games it's 'do combo', in RTS it's 'build order', etc etc) is kinda pointless.
It's not just games, either. I'm learning how to inline skate (at 32). When you look up how to, say, turn.. the tutorial person goes "just lean this way". Meanwhile I'm struggling to stay standing up and not fall over.
EVERYTHING requires different skills, and everything takes time.
@@naquan59 And from person to person. What some might consider easy is harder for others. For me getting into fighting games was pretty easy when I actually understood the game mechanics. FPS games like valorant or cod were hard for me to get into, because I could maybe get the timing of combos down, but not the precise mouse movement needed for headshotting.
@@naquan59 tf2 is one of the most beginner friendly shooters out there, with Soldier and Heavy being probably the two easiest charcters to use at a basic level in the game due to splash damage and continuous fire. Skullgirls was the first game made by a company that, while experienced, couldn't have realistically expected to get a lot of attention from new players unless those new players had other fg veterans to help them learn. Put someone who has never played a shooter in, say, apex, and leave for 3 hours and you will not find a player who understands what they're doing when you come back, or at least they certainly won't feel like they know what they're doing
@@rzzz5946 You could say, my analogies are very hit-or-miss. Okay, I'll let myself out.
"I may be new in town but I'm pretty sure all Ken players are bitches" he already fits in
Ultimately, my takeaway from this is that It's awesome to see people play games like how a kid messes with a toy box. They experiment, break stuff, learn what they like/dislike, and just enjoy the process. Everyone should approach something new like this.
ehhhh he was learning what he disliked. Lol
Srsly tho I don’t blame people for losing it, some people aren’t built for it. Like me I just don’t stream my failure lmao
It's not about raging. It's about getting over the rage and improving to a point where you actually enjoy the game. Fighting games can be harsh in telling you all the time how bad you are.
Oh you got hit, can't move you're in hit stun.
Oh you got hit alot, now you are stunned.
Oh you got hit too much, YOU LOSE.
And now go for another one.
@@darkgoblin5681 iss a video game, I’m supposed to be enjoying playing it. “Bro I promise you raw snail is delicious you just gotta crunch through the shell first” like it’s food lmao it ain’t doin its job. Or at least not until after you spend hours and hours on it, and some people just wanna play a game and have fun.
@@Caleb-zl4wk I understand where you're coming from, but your particular analogy is a little misguided. We clearly see in the video that people with no experience can have fun even if they don't understand the complexities of the game, or if there is a learning curve. That's why I used my initial comparison; it's all about the perspective at which you approach something.
@@BigBoiBryant77 I like to think (and you don't have to) that there are some people who play because they enjoy improving, and some people who play because they enjoy winning. That's an oversimplification, it's really a spectrum, but the point is, you see the Emiru person and she just spammed and had fun... but only because she won. And the other dudes loved combos because they got them down. Those instincts to stop playing vary by intensity with the people is all I'm saying; and consequently some people fight them and others don't, because they really don't have to. So I don't jive with the whole idea of "it's all about an improvement mindset" because... well that idea a. Ignores disposition, like I brought up, but b. can be applied uniformly to dag-near every other area of life, and yet people don't show the same progress everywhere. Cuz sometimes all it is is winning good, losing bad.
My girlfriend does not play FPS games. I got her to play through Bioshock 1 & she only used the wrench because she struggles with aiming & shooting. She also needs to take frequent breaks because the first person view point makes her nauseous unlike third person. Gamers have been gaming for so long that they completely forget what a complete beginner is like. I don't understand why they think if you are good at 1 genre you're good at them all!
I played a vr game with hand-to-hand combat for the first time a few days ago, and that shit was disorienting both spacially and from trying to use totally different controllers. Definitely something I'll be keeping in mind if I ever try to teach someone a game I'm familiar with
I've been playing games for forever but I happen to not vibe with shooters, so when I've tried to play them this has been my exact experience. People should play genres they're entirely unfamiliar with to see how it feels, its an interesting experience
I'll never forget the time I got a Playstation 2 after having only a Nintendo 64. It took me SO LONG to grasp the concept of using a second analog stick to rotate a camera while I walked. Ever since that moment, as a whole ass child, I learned to have empathy towards newbies touching new things and not take my skills for granted.
Hmmmmm, despite getting motion sick she's still playing? Must be enjoying the game...
Does Bioshock not have FoV slider? Usually it's the culprit behind nausea
"You're supposed to find something that's strong and fun to do, and then do that thing until the other person dies."
I think this is (PvP) gaming distilled into its purest form here. Words to live by.
@Fundamentally Unorthodox I think you do not understand what meta even means, or what a "Meta slave" is, especially in the context of a fighting game, playing a good fun character feels fun, if they're meta, hey its because a lot of other people think they're good and fun, and wanting to learn how to be more effective is itself fun, which means learning what others find effective and going "Hmm I sure do concur that you beat that man black and blue with that technique good fellow" and trying it out themselves, thats not blind slavery, thats cooperative learning
Would you call a wood carver a "meta slave" for using the tools that work, that other people have proven work, with lessons from those who make them work?
One thing I always remember whenever Fighting Game Discourse takes place, is the experience of watching seasoned video game players trying SM64 for the first time, flopping around all over the place like toddlers because nobody had ever played a 3D platformer before. But moving mario is fun. And when you learn to do it better, pulling off sick flips and wall kicks and looking for shortcuts and twerking on the stages and enemies is fun.
That's, like, how games are. Fighting games are no exception. Neither are shooters. I've never found the fun in Mobas but i assume there's a redeeming factor there too.
Have you played magic the gathering? (Like preferably on paper years ago, not on arena, but arena will work too.)
And also learning blj
No MOBAS just fucking suck.
Time is a flat circle.
This event is bittersweet for me. It's awesome that these people enjoyed our games and had a big tournament, it was hype and fun, but IMAGINE if Capcom had the forsight to schedule this tournament alongside a free weekend or a price drop or something for SFV.
Imagine how many people would try SF to try and streamsnipe LIRIK and end up liking FG as a result.
This is what I call a pretty smart dude.
The game is on sale on PSN right now, so at least that may help some people try it out. It got me into the game for the first time.
I remember that point where a bunch of chess streamers got together with the most popular streamers and coached them on playing chess. I would love to see something similar with pro SF streamers coaching the biggest names on twitch.
SF V has been on sale like many times. Sony/Capcom even gave it for free on PS+. The game is dirt cheap right now where you can get the vanilla copy for 10 bucks or less.
genuinely, a marketing genius
"I was shocked at how grumpy everyone was on Twitter." People being grumpy? On MY FGC Twitter? It's more likely than you think.
Many people have to realize that moving into an ENTIRELY NEW GENRE is a HUGE jump into the unknown. I come from platformers as a kid and can't shoot for my life in any fps. But that's just how it is. MOBAs are an entirely different skillset and fighting games are entirely different, and map games are entirely different.
I'm glad many of these people (noko) have seen what it's like for other people to jump into their genres for the first time, and hopefully they keep that mindset when bringing in new people for their genres.
I love lirik cause out of all the variety streamers, he went from disliking fighting games to genuinely respecting and loving the feeling of "getting good"
He said it best when someone asked why he was streaming MK11 after the tournament: "it reminds me of why I liked league. The beginning was fun because I was just messing around, and then when I found someone or something really cool, I wanted to get good at them."
It's easy to get frustrated when you don't understand why you lost. Most shooters these days have kill cams, so you can just see, "oh, damn it, he was waiting in that corner the whole time," but fighting games frequently don't explain things like frame data or command grabs, and definitely not right in the post-match screen. It would be cool if they did.
There's a post match screen in melee that tells you things like how often you were gra bed, spammed the same move, etc. I wish a more well thought out version of that existed..
"40% of the damage you took started from aerial combos. 30% was grabs. You spent 60% of the set in the corner. Etc."
It would be great if fighting games did this.
Fighting Games have the most "hidden" information of any genre outside of maybe RPGs (have you ever play a JRPG or an Action RPG that ever explained how their stat systems work beyond "big number good, small number bad"?). And EVEN WHEN ITS PROPERLY EXPLAINED, the game will send you a character that literally BREAKS THE RULES the game just spent time explaining to you. Its like Pokken Tournament when the game explained it's "Triangle" color system about what attacks and blocks beat what UNTIL you meet characters that are so fast that they break it or Chandlluer who just doesn't interact with it. These are MOTHER FUCKING **GAME DESIGNERS** that have been doing this for decades, and they can't see how teaching a games rules and then having "trap characters" and unexplained matchups this way would piss off beginners?! Like what do you think is going to happen?!
@@Chymistry I think probably the best way to go about it, which should be plenty feasible to implement on a technical level, is to start off showing you something you did really well, like your hype/highlight reel, then point out where you got hit and what you could have done differently. Detecting things like using an unsafe move in a block string. Then find which thing you screwed up would have the biggest impact on improving your play, and that's the suggestion the game makes to you after your hype reel. "Looks like you got SPDed 17 times. Try jumping when Zangief is close."
modern fighting games give you lots of tools to improve (replays, training mode, challenges, frame data, move lists, etc). They don't explain what any of it means or give you much strategy, but the tools themselves are usually there.
This reminds me of years ago when someone was watching me play and could tell that I don't play shooting games. I was playing Portal 2
8:57 When I tell new players to ANY game which character to play it's always one of two things:
Pick the one that looks coolest to you
I tell them the character who has the -highest- lowest skill floor
Because when you don't know the rules of the game, the character with the highest skill ceiling is irrelevant if nobody can take advantage of it.
You mean the lowest skill floor. High skill floor means that you have to be good to start playing well.
@@user-km7yr8wl6q Actually, I can get the logic of pointing out who has the highest skill floor. It's like telling them not be discouraged if the guy they like just happens to be particularly complex for a beginner, and possibly an implicit "the game as a whole isn't this hard, it's just this one guy."
The only issue with this being if you reach competition depending on how shit your luck is you can suffer immensely based on characters strength/matchups.
@@lurryfgc3292 If you've reached competition level, you probably don't need to worry about any of this. The difficulty in getting players to play fighting games is to get people to start.
@@user-km7yr8wl6q Imo, getting people to start is what already happens. People pick a fighting game up because it looks and sounds cool. Play against the cpu for a while and has fun with it, then decide to play with other people, get completely demolished, discouraged ane never picks up the game again. I believe this's the reason why fighting games get a huge drop on active players after a month or less from launch. I tried to break away from this state for years and just ended up giving up. It's not worth the hassle and time and there's so many other fun games and genres to pick up instead that are also challenging but fun and enjoyable, or even skills and crafts that you could learn with the same time and effort invested to learn a fighting game xD
I'm confused as to why SFV was the only non-shooter for the AT&T event (aside from Dead by Daylight). I imagine if one of the shooter were replaced by a RTS or a moba they've never played before, there would be similar levels of salt.
If they simply put in R6 Siege, there'd also be similar levels of salt
Almost all of them are FPS wth?? there should be more variety for each game to spice things up. Something like puyo puyo tetris, rocket league, literally any moba, some platformer perhaps, etc.
Yeah, I am honestly surprised they didn't put any moba's in that tournament. I think it was like 3 fps games, 1 team survival horror game, and 1 fighting game. Would have been cool if they took out the other 2 fps games and replace it with some type of competitive puzzle game like tetris or puyo puyo, and some retro platformer game like Ninja gaiden, Castlevania, megaman, mario, sonic or something. Would have been cool to see that type of versatility in the tournament.
because they put in popular games with a lot of viewership. it's a marketing event, first and foremost
@@methanesulfonic I’m surprised rocket league wasn’t involved.
If the tournament was Five games, I’d like to see a shooter, a fighter, a racing game, something in its own genre like rocket league and like, comp Tetris or something
I’d avoid mobas simply because I’m trying to keep things to 1v1 combat
I didn’t know LowTierGod came in a different color pallet.
Underrated comment
I do get it. As a spectator, I have an easier time following RTS and FPS I've never touched than I did trying to watch fighting games before I got into the genre myself.
I definitely don't think playing Street Fighter is harder than, say, 1v1 Starcraft, but I *do* think the difficulty of fighting games is a little more deceptive. There aren't as many obvious moving parts and more of the complexity is happening "under the hood" so to speak, which can be frustrating. This might be why there's so much discourse about motion inputs. It's not that motion inputs are actually that hard; it's just that they're the most obvious, surface level, "hard thing" that new players can point to as a barrier to fun and success.
As a spectator I have an impossible time following an RTS unless I've read about it beforehand. All the pieces are so small and moving so quick...
RTS & FPS games are the exact same way. Fighting games aren’t unique at all as a spectator genre. It’s all about what you’re familiar with, and your personality type.
I don’t play RTS & FPS games, and I’ve tried in the past to watch some tournaments for stuff like Starcraft and Overwatch, and it’s close to impossible for me to follow what is happening, even with the aid of commentators. And trying to actually play the games feels even more daunting.
This is not to say that I couldn’t do it if I dedicated enough time to it. My point is just that the narrative seem to often be that these genres are inherently more easy to grasp vs fighting games, when that just isn’t the case. Some things just comes easier to some people than to others.
@@CrossfacePanda Because you're watching Overwatch. Try watching something like CS or Quake
@@doommaker4000 I have. It’s even faster and more confusing. It’s like somebody having a hard time following a Street Fighter match and suggesting they watch MvC3 instead
Its 2 different skillsets. Like obviously strategy is important for both but my starcraft units aren't suddenly gonna do less damage if I cant 236 consistently
As glad as I am to see a new upload, the fact that this topic needs to be repeated so many times in different ways is pretty sad :(
Make sure ya'll share this stuff for non fg players! spread the good word and maybe more people can get to have fun.
You know, I can honestly not do this to my friends in good faith. Fighting games aren't for everyone. I loved when I first picked up tekken 5 and hammered at the online or the dojo and practiced all the cool shit but my friends aren't the type of people that can handle these games. Stressing them out isn't something I wanna do to them.
true true that'[s true
I honestly feel like the root of this mistifying of fighting games as the hardest genre of games is that fighting games have always come from japan and mainstream fg media has lagged behind every other genre. Most kids don't grow up playing tournaments on lan like they do with fortnite or other games that have been through the mainstream lens.
Most kids playing Fortnite aren’t playing tournaments either. They’re playing around in the game with their friends because it’s free. Part of the mistifying of fighting games is the lack of access from fewer arcades, and other genres taking FGs place as the “hangout game”
@@dropshock284 i'm not from a big city or anything but my nephews play fortnite tournaments online lmaoooo.
It doesn't help that fighting games have a serious elitism problem. If a beginner watches League they see the skills and go "Oh thats cool, I can do that", because most of the skill is happening in ways that aren't apparent to new players. If a beginner watches a fighting game, they see these crazy high--execution combos and think that you aren't really playing the game unless you're doing the stuff the top 5% of players are rolling out. Then they go online and all the reddit scrubs hit them with the frame data instead of just telling them to go mash their favorite buttons until someone dies.
Shooting games are wack tho tbf
"Yeah yeah you pointed at that guys head perfectly and shot him first with a stronger gun but the random spread means you missed and the other guy sniped you with an SMG because fuck you."
It's impressive how Sajam's videos seem to find their way to me exactly when I need them most. I've started playing Yugioh Master Duel for the past few of months and I've experienced this exact range of emotions. I've been the guy who laughs maniacally but I've also been on the receiving end of some bullshit. I feel like the emotions are much more enhanced because the way that Master Duel prices deckbuilding makes it so even if you make a big investment on a deck you want to play you're not guaranteed to win in the least, so the emotions are even greater and more fervorous because you feel like you wasted so much of your time.
Me and my Fortune Lady deck feel this 😭
I mean... I'll be honest. As someone that DOES play card games from time to time and has played many different ones, I still don't want to touch Yugioh precisely because of how Konami handles balance and banlists.
Games that have a constantly shifting balance curve to the point that old decks become non-playable at anything but the most beginner level are exhausting. This is especially true of games where the majority of your deck is expected to be taken up by rare cards that have a less than 1% drop rate (or cost up to hundreds of dollars for a physical copy).
Joke and more obscure theme decks are certainly playable against CPUs and lower tier play, but games like that tend to limit creativity and expression at even starter competitive play and instead focus on how well you can optimize your play for a handful of well-defined strats to counteract luck elements.
Not to mention once you get into Silver Rank your whole game plan has to change because you're playing against dudes who's decks are designed to not let you play Yu-Gi-Oh.
@@jwm1444 as a yu-gi-oh player that started since early 2000s that stopped after the pendulum stuff, that is pretty much yu-gi-oh. Destroy the field and negate your way to victory while gaining card advantage XD. There's a reason why the strongest cards are the ones that are immune to some or all of this or do it as well.
I relate to this so much. I tried starting SFV with Sagat and had fun for a while, but my mind started getting mired in just watching spacing, and I hit a wall when I ran into players that were able to take advantage of how slow I was processing things.
I switched to Cody for a day and started having fun again.
I know this guy was giga extra salty at the start because he was in a tournament but honestly when i began playing Fighting games i didn't get as salty as i do now that i know how to play.
Thanks twitter guy for this wholesome take, I'm surprised you made two videos on this back to back.
me in street fighter iv spamming the lariat as zangief, until cammy players started getting under it with spiral arrow and i was like “ok i need to actually learn the game now”
Did you see the HiFight breakdown of the Emiru clip on Twitter? Not only was it hilarious, but he even showcased possible solutions her opponent could have done to beat the slaps
Sajam usually has amazing takes on things. Great video, I was so confused when I saw other videos discussing making fighting games easier because of that clip. It made zero sense to me. Using that line of thinking, we should make every game easier
I’m flattered to be called a superior player instead of a glue eater but I assure you we’re not cut from a different cloth, I’m not sure how to take this please return to calling me a glue eater
This is why I love mystery tournaments. Idk if they have them outside of Combo Breaker/UFGT, but theyre so amazing. The process of rapidly assessing character strengths, finding what seems broken, and abusing it until the opponent finds their own dumb strong counter to it is such a blast.
The only exception is when you actually know the shitty obscure game in your bracket. See me in Snowboard Kids 2 if you wanna get fucking smoked.
Crazy part about this tho, this "for fun" tournament has more prizepool than most of the major official FGC tournaments. That's crazy
@@yololoyo7379 big business brings the fight money. Maybe if we trick Elon Musk into thinking hit confirming is impossible, he'll buy the FGC and put guilty gear in the Olympics (but only after naming the next expansion after his child).
@@TheStrix XD
Bro really wants us to enter his domain expansion (snowboard kids 2)
I don't play fighting games but I do play card games competitively like Magic the Gathering. I watch a lot of your videos like this discussing peoples complaints in fighting games and it is fascinating how you could almost every one of those videos and substitute the word fighting for card and the video mirror's the exact complaints I see in the card game sphere.
I would like to see these same streamers try to actually play and learn SFV again or any fighting games, just without the pressure of playing in a tournament of a unknown game with thousands of dollars on the line 😂
New players figuring shit out on the go is one of the greatest, hypest and often underappreciated thing in fighting games.
When I saw my friend use stun dipper to whiff punish. I screamed in joy. And then I said, "now use 6h and make me scream louder" he started playing Chipp.
I believe Brian_F tweeted the Honda hundred hands as a tech for them
Well as far as difficulty is concerned, it's interesting to note that many people picked Falke or Ed. Some of them even said that them not having motions on specials was the thing that made them choose those characters. So there is a clear intimidation factor with motions, so maybe it would be smart to have those types of non-motion characters to make getting into the game less intimidating.
Agreed. This was the reason why I got into original Killer Instinct on SNES when I was a kid, because Cinder is an easy character that I could do combos just pressing 66MP. Even tho I don't play with him anymore (I switched to Fulgore later on), Cinder showed me how KI and fighting games can be fun and rewarding.
I never understood this, honestly. I was 4 years old when I learned to throw a Hadoken, and it took me about a week to figure out. I would think that your typical late-teens or early-20s gamer could get it in a fraction of that time. And hell, the motion hasn't changed in 35 years. It's literally older than some of these people's parents, it's not exactly new information.
@@rachelespiritu4215 probably because while the idea has been there for a long time. Motion inputs are not common in the grand scheme of video games, since usually controls focus on what sets of buttons you press, or what direction you hold while pressing a button, instead of making a motion with your stick before using a button. That sounds pretty understandable to me.
@@rachelespiritu4215 The motions aren't tough. But if you can't do them *very* quickly, shit like linking DPs (which is still basic, entry-level stuff) is pretty damn hard.
Whenever I pick up a new franchise for the first time, I like to try every single character and pick the one I had the most fun with. I rarely ever end up playing a top tier out of the gate, but it's funny when the character I picked day 1 gets buffed to the moon like 3 months later
When I watched Noko he definitely had some ideas on WHAT to do. I totally understand the 1st time playing though it's HARD when you're not at the headspace you need to be to enjoy fgs 100% imo
Sajam, my brother in Christ, you were surprised Twitter was grumpy!?
I suck at fighting games, but I love Soulcalibur. I can definitely say that some of my most fun gaming moments were messing around with Siegfried in training mode and finding a simple move and realizing "Oh! I think I can actually pull this one off!"
Always wanted to get into fighting games as an fps player myself. Glad Sajam’s content exists for when I finally take the plunge one day and decide on a game.
Once you start the odds are it won't be one game for long. FGs are infectious :-)
Obama getting hyped watching emiru like a proud father had me cheesin so hard.
Tangentially related, I started a small tournament for my friends for tough love arena, and the simplicity of the game made me feel comfortable enough that it’s the first fighting game where I’ve really gone to training mode to practice and lab things out. Was a very enlightening experience, that
People were taking this guys salty rant seriously??? I thought everyone was just (rightfully) laughing at him
people were legit taking it up their ass to somehow "prove" a point that fighters arent for casuals.... so embarassing
I really wanna see that Lirik clip of him saying that about Ken.
what i think is interesting is that, in your rebuttle where you use the same argument for a shooter, i think you actually pointed out an open flaw that shooters do share with fighting games: theyre actually not super good at teaching either and are just leaning on the popularity of the genre to onboard players. hear me out
so in fighting games you have a lot of shit going on when the round starts. you can move in X different directions, all your buttons do different things, and most of them do different things depending on what direction you're holding. there are hidden mechanics you cannot see and more have to "feel" to understand like plus frames. your character doesnt come with a starter manual just a huge list of special moves. tons of shit is going on, is what im trying to say here
compare that to shooters; you can move in X directions, you have a lot of buttons, there are hidden mechanics like jump prevention to prevent abuse of something that makes you hard to shoot, your character doesnt come with a guide and some games dont even have characters per se but your primary gun makes you player very differently. like FG's, shooters have a lot going on. the difference? most people have played a shooter
but what happens when you get someone who doesnt play games to play a shooter? they encounter all the same problems gamers encounter when they pick up a FG, they dont know what the fuck is going on and it seems completely unapproachable. you *do* have to be pixel perfect to hit enemies, especially with head shots; you do need good movement fundamentals to avoid being hit; you do need to learn about crosshair placement and how to peek effectively at different areas of the map. do they teach you any of this? no. they might have training grounds and maybe even scenarios built to get you in the right frame of mind (valorant's plant/defuse training modes) but they arent teaching you how to place your crosshairs or how to slice the pie
shooters *are* difficult, they're just more popular
FGs are only unique in that their skills are generally non-transferrable unless you play a shitload of side-scrolling beat'em ups (and who plays those?). so youre essentially starting from scratch in a genre that values mechanical depth and complexity to challenge itself, which gives it a high skill floor. but is that floor any higher than the floor in learning shooters for the very first time? i dont really think it is, to be honest
Tbh as a fighting game fan I was baffled at how absolutely dogshit I am at river city girls so I'm not sure that the skills really translate to any other genre lmao
@@sledgehammersssssquad3624 lol oh shit
In most fps games you just put the guys face in the middle of the screen and you shoot. It's a natural concept to hit a target with a projectile.
Fighting games are doing something very different. And most people aren't really oblivious to any genre. If you play video games you probably play a lot of games or at least have
@@Theyungcity23 natural to us yeah, that's my point
punching a guy is pretty natural too innit? you can very easily frame anything as "natural concept" when youve been playing games your whole life
The thing is, fighting games used to be considered the accessible and fair genre, and nothing about them has changed. In platformers, you can be caught offguard by breaking floors, offscreen projectiles, instakill spikes, etc. In shooters, you're playing a new map for the first time, you can be sniped anytime by an enemy you've literally never seen because they never even appeared on your screen. Even old school beat-em-ups had bosses with bizarre s and instant-kill attacks just to eat your tokens. But the beauty of fighting games is that you can never lose to something you didn't see coming. You and your opponent are looking at the exact same screen, your opponent never has more information than you, whether you win or lose is entirely within your control from the first second to the last.
And really, none of these things have changed. The games still function more or less the same way they did 30 years ago. What's changed is that other genres have given players alternatives to losing. Action-adventure games no longer have limited lives. RPGs just let you buy victories through DLC. And shooters... well, shooters gave you teammates to blame. Fighting games are still every bit as accessible as they've always been, they're just the last genre to figure out how to protect you from losing.
So I pretty much agree with you except for one thing. I think there's an amount we could make fighting games easier/more accessible. And all I mean is small things like better learning tools (Strive combo trials), some lower level obvious combos (TFH ABC jump ABC style combos), and things along those lines. Give people ways to more easily think they're playing fighting games and it should make the experience of getting into them better.
I like guilty gear's use of Gatling combos (literally just press normals in the right order and you get a simple ez "combo" that can be a starting point for learning proper combos)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: fighting games wouldn't be perceived as difficult if their onboarding experience wasn't so abysmal to climb over. Emiru here probably wouldn't have found this strategy she had so much fun with if she hadn't been guided there by BrianF. But just that little bit of help got her to a spot where, should she chose to, she could go much much further than someone trying to learn by themselves. Fighting games themselves need better onboarding so that being a new player is less overwhelming and information is communicated more upfront.
That said, I do really like events like this and hope more start happening to show that, with time and guidance, anyone can learn fighting games at a basic level.
There's literal command lists, tutorials, and tips in SF5
@@victorprati7908 Have you tried playing them? FG tutorials are a terrible chore to get through, often with annoying walls of text. This is not how most games teach people how to play. Hell, I can't currently think of any game being that bad at it.
@@doommaker4000 Xenoblade chronicles 2 has tutorials throughout the entire game and still misses very important details but yeah as a genre entirely fighting games are easily the worst.
Emiru was having fun in this video 10/10
also this comment section is spittin
holy fuck "im overheating" almost made me snap my neck in laughter
I WAS WAITING FOR THIS! I was watching from the beginning and could not wait to see this be clipped and be a topic for you or anyone to talk about, finally!
"frame perfect"
so who's gonna tell him about anime games
i'd love to see that dude play a random fighting game from the 90s and get his butt spanked because he'll realize too late that there was no playing with your forehead and do "crazy fucking combos" ahahah
Hey Sajam, thanks for this take. Always appreciate your humility and level headed opinions.
Fighting games are like real combat sports where people who don’t do them imagine they will be naturally good at it for some weird reason. The people who get good are the ones who get over their ego after they get smacked around.
to be honest in my pov its really hard to get into fighting games.
you need a passion to get good.
i remember playing sf5 im really pissed my opponent constantly jump on me and get a combo after hit, it almost made me quit then later on i found a character that fits my playstyle and hand motion.
get a grip on the game first , then let urself lose over and over but learn from it.
200 ~ 300 hours of playing u will start to get good at the game.
you will see those fireballs jump ins you can react properly into mixup grabs etc.
just learn the mechanics of the game
My main goal is to be degenerate and ack like I don know no combos ak ak ak ak ak ak ak
"Didn't expect, Neon Icon"
One of the most unfortunate side effects of this event is people now have the wrong impression of Noko... Noko's an apex player and one of the sweetest individuals out there, generally regarded as a natural homie. Pretty tragic that now the whole fgc knows him as that one guy who got mad at street fighter... hopefully people look into him further than just that layer.
as of the fg players judging haven't thrown controllers over the same game 🤣
Watching this in the era of sf6 is even more hilarious. They need to do this again with modern controls
Loved clips being thrown into the talk show. Brought much life into this.
My cousin is the Kirby spammer who presses A, and I'm whiff punishing with jumps, shield, dashing etc. Our strategies evolved from there
There's something very satisfying about a 1v1. Team based shooters are cool but nothing beats being the only one to walk away
At genesis... rushdown revolt had a tournament specifically made for begginers.
The developers just had a blast looking at people get their footing in playing their game
I'd pay that guy 50 bucks if he showed me a game from '99 that let's you mash for "crazy combos"
Thank you for being the voice of reason Sajam.
The forehead line definitely refers to playing Eddie, smashing buttons and have him spin all over the place. I absolutely remember doing that when I was like 8-9 years old :D If I never got into fighting games after that, I’d definitely feel what he’s saying.
The golden rule of fighting games: If it works, keep doing it until it doesn't. Straight up, you will win tournaments with that mindset.
"your powerlevel is higher than someone playing it the 'right' way" flashbacks of me pickibg sfv coz abigail and spamming abigailrun flip kic, good times
Finally some good takes
My experience with Apex Legends was I played three games in the course of ten minutes because I would drop down and get shot to death by somebody offscreen. At least in fighting games what happened is fuckin visible
At least in Apex I know that I got shot from offscreen and should have been more careful, in Street Fighter a bunch of *crazy bullshit* starts happening in 0.2 seconds and you need to parse which attack of the 40-something character roster is happening and what you should do about it and then execute whatever that is out of the 20-something things you could have done in that milisecond. In Apex it's literally just "stop standing out in the open and use your fucking eyeballs".
It took me 10 hours tops to be decent at Apex and in the meantime I at least felt like I was playing the game. SF would take 100 to feel like I was playing the game and 300 to feel like I was competent.
When i saw some guy in counter strike do a backflip into a grenade throw that landed across the map and wipes the enemy team or some shit i was like 0.o
"Can we go back to the 90s... with my forehead?" BrolyLegs: Hold my pad.
Aye man... "you can watch a 10 minute video [on how to shoot in an FPS]" , but i feel like he didn't watch any of the tutorials for his character, he just did what he wanted ya know.
As usual, I was having a pretty good time with the event until I decided to look at Twitter. I don't know why people keep taking scrubquotes so seriously.
Right? Like let a man be salty for a minute. A downside of everyone being streamed when they play. Easy to take things out of context.
Because they’re salty that the devs will probably listen to people who struggle because things are unclear, than the people who put in unhealthy amounts of time to learn shit that should not require outside resources to learn.
@@Shad809 We are you finding those competitive games that don't "require" outside resources? I've never seen one of those.
I think this criticism is actually MORE valid for modern non-fighting games. 20 years ago you really did have to read the whole damn manual and practice offline to get competitive at SF or MK while you could drop into a Quakeworld lobby and it was just obvious what you were supposed to do. If you handed someone TF2 today and and told them to play it, wtf would they do? It never tells you why your teammates will randomly change color and shape and insta-kill you with a knife, or why everyone else is hitting buildings with wrenches.
How does anyone play League or DoTA, for that matter? There are so many systems to memorize and so many characters and roles to understand. Fighting games follow a relatively reliable, set pattern of systems and controls compared to that.
The difference between shooters and fighters, though, is conveyance. In a shooting game it's very easy to understand how input correlates to output. Fighting games are way more disconnected with buffering and readability because the rock-paper-scissors is so much more complicated than a drop-in viewer can understand. High level arena FPS went though this argument too. Games like CPMA are just completely unwatchable because almost all the strategy is happening the players' heads, or around blind corners where they shot a rocket 3 seconds ago knowing it would land a preemptive hit.
I can't aim at all in shooters, so I just play tanks and healers in Overwatch lol
Yeah, when you are trying to learn FGs, definitely start with the character you think is the coolest.
Unless that character happens to be Zato.
Don’t be like me. Don’t play 150 hours of training mode trying to do negative edges on a ps5 controller, just to learn how to do basic stuff like loops and blockstrings, then proceed to get stomped by actual humans mashing 24/7 because you have zero clue about how to play the game.
But I must admit, the fact Zato was so cool to me gave me the motivation I needed to actually keep trying. Eventually I reached floor 10 and called it a day, I regret nothing.
… maybe should have picked Ky.
Oh well.
Lirik and Jake were awesome this tournament. Well deserved 2nd and 3rd
1999 was frame perfect links to my knowledge. Fundamentals on defense will teach you a lot
The thing people dont understand is that this is how hawaiianshirtman feels every time he presses transform. He feels like this every second he plays videogames. Imagine how rich his experience is. We simply hope we can become hsm
I mean its hard to not focus on difficulty but eventually I had to treat the difficulty of a lot of video games as an extremely valuable feature and that chain failing was valuable for content!
At first I did not take this seriously even when I became a Veteran at a variety of different video games Elden Ring however threw all of that to the wind as it was the first game where it felt like I could NEVER avoid a lot of chain failing to get a victory this honed my perception of difficulty value like no modern game ever had...
I'm not sure why Elden Ring itself truly honed this concept like no previous video game ever had for me but it did and the game does repay you in a number of ways including the fact it looks AMAZING!
i like fighting games but i just get overwhelmed with all these extra mechanics like supers, meter burns and all the game specific intricacies.
for me i'm just good knowing what button does what and actually using the correct button when i want to use that button.
but it's a tough skill check to beat when the other player starts doing combos on you and you have to struggle for each and every read you make only for them to make considerably less reads and kill you faster which kinda forces you to learn to combo aswell before you start making good headway.
I remember struggling with Honda hands
good times
Honestly the best take on this topic so far, especially as you covered more than one person participating in this tournament.
I do get the salt though, since SFV is not exactly the easiest game on the market. I feel he would have had a much more positive experience playing a game with easy inputs and simple combos like Granblue. I feel these kind of events should be done more often and with a more varied selection of games to get people to try different genres. They might find something they like.
And then we had him ragequit over way more unconventional stuff (Rhythm Games, Puzzle Games, Sports Games, whatever is played competitively) and thus paint a more accurate picture.
What's easier than Sfv?
@@Theyungcity23 A lot. Keep in mind though, what is difficult and what is not differs from person to person, so I wouldn't say game X is easier than game Y, but rather where the challenges of each game lies. As for Street Fighter V that is mostly playing proper footsies and tight hit confirms. KoF XV also has tight hitconfirms, but more of an unga bunga neutral, which is easier for many I'd say. Most other 2D Fighters on the market have way easier hit confirms, whether it is DBFZ, GBFV, MBTL, GGST. So I'd say all of these games are easier in those aspects, which make them easier for me.
I remember someone saying, someone who played fighting games btw, that they hated VF4 because you had to get a masters degree to play it properly.
Mashing definitely gives you a higher power level because of one word "unpredictability".
You cannot bait a masher.
You cannot read a masher.
You cannot predict a masher.
You cannot force a masher into the corner.
You CAN, however, exploit their lack of game knowledge.
Can confirm - when playing Aphelios I do feel like John Wick
My takeaway is that not everyone enjoys the learning process of a weird game if there is more than a hundred thousand dollars on the line
And also that people can manage to.enioy my favorite experience about fighting games even with that pressure: figuring something out, applying and thriving through your very own credit
Even without money on the line, some people still find the learning process to be frustrating.
Personally. With the first fighting game I played I didn't even know button mashing was optimal cus I would just read the game manual before playing
I may be biased because I'm primarily an FPS player, and I'm more than willing to change my opinion on this, but I genuinly feel like fighting games are just harder. You can become better at fps games by just playing them because every game is practice for aiming. In fighting games, if you don't take the time to lab matchups, it will take you an enormous amount of time to figure out the answers. Sometimes when you encounter a matchup that you don't know how to deal with, it's very unlikely that you will find the answer during the match, so you will inevitably lose hence the frustration. It takes alot of knowledge in the game, before you can get to strategize it feels to me.
It may also be that most people when playing fighting games only derive pleasure from winning and not just playing the game which makes them not enjoy the game when losing. I don't know.. maybe fighting games are just never going to be mainstream and we just have to accept that.
I used to play fps alot and improvement coming naturally never felt like a thing. Getting the basic idea of positioning is one thing but actually figuring out how to flank x y and z positions and where those leave you vulnerable (as well as the routing to and from) on a map to map basis felt like those all needed extensive labbing to actually figure out, if I actually wanted to be half decent lol
@@YourBoyToy1769 if you started worrying about positioning, you're well past the beginner level though
Speaking as a newcomer to fighting games. I think the real issue for beginners is that not all fighting games are very good at teaching you how to play the game. You know some games just stuff a command list in your face and the most basic ass tutorial and then say go.
Damn, that Aphelios reference. He's ready for Project L.
I come from the future, being a fighting game player does make you the greatest gamer
Damn the aphelios comparison it's on point
Was that my E Honda from my childhood Genesis SF2?!
Yep. The Street Fighter 2 cast is the most prominent.
Big Wheel enjoyer. It makes the big wheels in my brain turn which makes me feel good! I got that same feeling in the Strive beta, I spiritually felt Nago to be my main, then I found Beyblade. The rest was history.
Dude that was ranting made me feel good to be a fighting game player no lie haha. But that e Honda clip where did you find that at? Where she's spamming 100 hand slap
twitch they are all twitch streamers
I've been playing fighting games for 18 years and I still freak out when I discover some new random bullshit on a new character or using a new mechanic.
If you can't find a part of yourself who knows exactly how it feels to repeat hundred hands on Honda, you've lost something precious and don't even know it.
When Project L comes out I hope we have funny flaming wheels
That's right, you heard it from Noko: If you play fighting games you're in the Top 15% of gamers worldwide. 10% if you're subscribed to Sajam