Especially since in many of them they have to hide the wheels because for whatever reason most of the animation models for the robots have no visible wheels on them.
I love how Takara sees 3rd party producers as legitimate competition, rather than people infringing on their copyright. Its a great attitude that I really wish more companies would adopt (and an attitude a certain pair of brothers popular on youtube could learn a thing or two from).
+Magmafrost13 That's not exactly it....there are different laws over there that really prevent them from having such things as copyright infringement. It's not that they're nice, they just don't have much in terms of a legal recourse
+optibotimus you mentioned flight stand and yes u can use tracks flight stand ive seen a few picks on Google showing it off.and the red pieces I think are from the G1 toy rachet and ironhide had these both had 1 each hope this information helps :-)
Been packing my guys up in prep for a move and couldn't for the life of me remember how to get these dudes back into their van/ambulance modes. Your video was a lifesaver so thanks, Opbot.
Just ordered Prowl and Ironhide. I cannot wait to get them! Amazingly, what sold me on Transformers was the rubber tires. I was blown away on the detail and the smell of the rubber. Brings back soooo many memories
+Christopher Korfiatis Nah, I think it's just meant to be an all purpose "action face" like when you put him in a dynamic fire fight kind of pose. I mean, hell, they have him with that face on right on the side of the box where he's got his shooty-finger hands on. They all made that face a lot in the G1 cartoon while doing anything more strenuous than just standing there. Come to think of it, sometimes they made that face even when they WERE just standing there. Lol.
Ironhide was my first Transformer and I picked this up Friday from BBTS at BotCon. I don't buy many Masterpiece figures but this is one I had to buy, Again, I wish I could have stayed longer at the meetup.
8 years later lol have you seen the news of new versions coming from Xtransbots and Fanstoys? Ironhide is one offering among many that is badly in need of an update. (I guess MP-36 is untouchable)
Wow, this looks awesome. It would have blown my mind if I'd seen Transformer toys like this when I was a kid. I remember hating that none of the toys looked like the cartoon or the comics. These would be nice to display on a diorama. Seems like they could have just made an attachable molded plate that looks aesthetically like the back of his waist, in order to hide that gap. It could be stored on the sled when detached.
Because it would up the manufacturing price and subsequently the price for customers. They like to keep things the same price since even a small variation can greatly influence how many are sold.
Here's my thoughts on Ironhide. He's old... He's yesterday's model... But he's not quite ready for the scrap heap. That Old Rust Bucket is far too stubborn for that! :)
I just got mine and I really love it. It is a great Masterpiece. The plastic and quality are excellent. I noticed that it is stamped made in Vietnam. That might be why the quality is so good.
We are getting a Masterpiece Ratchet which will be released after Shockwave & Hot Rod 2.0. Then there's Optimus Primal which is to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Beast Wars.
While Ironhide has some compromises on his back (I honestly hadn't noticed on my until you pointed it out!), I still think it's much better than how MP Tracks' turned out in that respect. I just have to find a space for him!
Also with regards to Takara's tabs for weapons in their hands; I usually flip the wrist 180 and then insert weapon. Fits easier and doesn't break. Wish they would make the weapon tabs better though!
I honestly cannot wait for my ironhide to arrive in the mail, I have heard too many good things and its going to be awesome to finally have him in my collection despite the "issues" people have with him, the hip skirts are a bit annoying but to me they could be easy to overlook
I've always wondered, why do you use the Takara version of MP-10 for comparisons and in your display case and not the Hasbro version since you said in your review that the Hasbro version is the slightly better one because of its eyes?
Great review Paul!!! I had to wait until a reviewer I trust reviewed him and thanks to you I will definitely be picking him up. I've also preordered Ratchet. BTW since I grew up with G1 and saw the original movie in the theater and had it so profoundly affect me to the point where I'd dream about it I can say with certainty that the alternate face is definitely the expression he wore just before Megatron killed him. He was like NOOOOOOO!!! As always thanks for the great review and keep up the great work.
I think that the masterpiece figures are actually made for the fans to make stop motions recreating the original scenes from the movies and the tv shows, because why would the characters come with a prop that only appeared in one episode? I think they want us to make stop motions with the masterpiece figures
+ Optibotimus Thanks again for another great review! I personally and thrilled how just how nice this guy turned out. And quite honestly, he is one my favorites in my MP collection. I love how vibrant and deep his red color is - he really pops! I 100% recommend this guy and would go so far as to say he's a must have! Cant wait to see what they throw in the bag of goodies with Ratchet!
With the face, it's no so much that the face itself pops out easily, just that it's pretty easy when fiddling to hit that crest piece that pops it off, at least on mine. Good and bad in a sense. Mine stays on pretty well as long as I do not hit that crest piece. But it is nice to be able to swap without fear of chipping paint in the process (I'm looking at you, Bumblebee)
***** The weapons reminiscent of the one that goes on the front of the sled, his was bent. I'll take our minor QC issue over that. Only issue with mine is a paint application defect on the left rear wheel.... which is thanfully extremely minor
Hey optibotimus nice review as always.. love the "G1 show and tell" part :D and I with you that Ironhide's G1 robot mode is a big no no.. and speaking of his G1 robot mode, Baltmatrix did a G1 robot mode in his Masterpiece Ironhide review :)
+optibotimus Awesome!!! I bought the MP 22 Ultra Magnus and the Gold Megatron from BBTS when I saw the reviews. I'll be on the lookout for the reviews for Shockwave and Hot Rod.
Love the presentation I just have 1 thing to say maybe you should practice your presentation several times before actually video taping so that you can go through with a Flawless presentation.... just a suggestion
I'm just not a fan of the chest. It's just my personal preference but I don't think it looks good. I'm just of the opinion that it's impossible to make a transforming IronHide that looks like his G1 robot. I mean this one comes really close in a kind-of-sort-of way, but... eh. It was an impossible task to begin with.
did they make all the Masterpiece figures like the G1's? And are they making all of them or have they, I want to get into Transformers but I want what looks like the Vintage figures, The new stuff is just straight crap..
Yeah Just like cartoon.....This is the one i been waiting for....The original G1 toy nothing like this...Dont get me wrong i love the G1 Stuff...but Takara Tomy really doing a good bring theses charters back to life
hi obtibotimus I am such a big fan of yours and I love transformers I watched every show I had question how do buy that stuff it is so expensive and do you do a job
Fantastic review as always Sir Optibotimus! Awesome looking figure figure indeed! may have to look for this one at TFcon if they have it! you said "Subsibbled" lmao! :P
The face is too loose and the heel spurs are way too tight. Gave me a heart attack trying to pull those spurs out without separating the plastic part from the chrome on the heel.
hum... face swapping a new thing for takara? nope, the original masterpiece seeker had them all.... still you made a great review and I thank you Now can we get a MAsterpiece JAZZ already???!!
Thekeyman1 Same here. I remember, i was 6 and my older cousin bought me a G1 Ratchet. Me and Her couldn't stop laughing at it. XD but nah, it was a good move to remake these.
Yeah, third party figures do a better job sometimes. They also cost ten times as much, you'd bloody hope they're better. Although, of course, 1st party masterpiece figures typically have simpler transformations, and do a much better job of capturing the cartoon look of the character
Also it depends if I shop at BBTS (pricey) or HLJ.com (cheap, but expensive shipping). I got coronation starscream from BBTS for $200 and he's a floppy, un-fun piece of garbage IMO. But he comes with the big cape so maybe that added to the cost.
Magmafrost13 I get that you were exaggerating, and I agree that the 3P stuff is expensive. Agreed the smaller 3P figures are super pricey (DX9 WIP). I don't think we get what we pay for from Takara generally though.
MultiJamesman well the thing is, if you lived in Japan, you probably would get what you pay for. The secondary market prices aren't really Takara's fault. Importing from Japan to the US is going to be expensive. If Takara shipped to America themselves, they'd probably be much more reasonably priced, like they are in Australia. Although I will say, on the two Takara figures I have (MP starscream and MP Sideswipe), the QC has been sub-par at best, non-existent at worst. My MP-7 came covered in stress marks from sprew removal, and even a few bits of sprew still on it, the detail piece on the inside of his breast air intake was misaligned, and one of the leg ratchets wasn't attached properly, so its just a swivel joint (which holds fine, as it turns out). So yeah, I suppose I didn't get what I paid for there. Although from the look of this MP Ironhide, it looks like they've gotten a lot better in the past few years.
Because the Bayformers designs are crap and are in no way as iconic as the original G1 looks. MP's are higher tier products and the people that buy them are mostly adults who prefer the characters they grew up with rather than the way too busy designs of the movies.
Amazing how the MPs transform, and retain their Gen1 cartoon appearances....
Especially since in many of them they have to hide the wheels because for whatever reason most of the animation models for the robots have no visible wheels on them.
That’s the point they were maid to look like g1
@@beaniebros9631 doesn't make it an less amazing.
I love how Takara sees 3rd party producers as legitimate competition, rather than people infringing on their copyright. Its a great attitude that I really wish more companies would adopt (and an attitude a certain pair of brothers popular on youtube could learn a thing or two from).
Takara are nice chaps
+Magmafrost13 funny story, the guy that designed MP star saber for takara also designed Ironwill and Cupola for Maketoys.
What a nice guy for doing that
+Magmafrost13 That's not exactly it....there are different laws over there that really prevent them from having such things as copyright infringement. It's not that they're nice, they just don't have much in terms of a legal recourse
+optibotimus you mentioned flight stand and yes u can use tracks flight stand ive seen a few picks on Google showing it off.and the red pieces I think are from the G1 toy rachet and ironhide had these both had 1 each hope this information helps :-)
I'm glad someone mentioned the face in the windshield! I loved that little unnecessary detail!
"His face does not like to stay on" Bayformers Optimus Prime is at it again.
Been packing my guys up in prep for a move and couldn't for the life of me remember how to get these dudes back into their van/ambulance modes. Your video was a lifesaver so thanks, Opbot.
Glad to be of help!
Just ordered Prowl and Ironhide. I cannot wait to get them! Amazingly, what sold me on Transformers was the rubber tires. I was blown away on the detail and the smell of the rubber. Brings back soooo many memories
They could've fixed the hip plates soooo easily, even just swinging them up a bit would look infinitely better
It is nitrogen that Ironhide shoots from his fingers. He uses this in the episode from 1985 "Quest for survival".
That alternate face is meant to be the one that he had when he died in the movie when shot on the autobot ship
+Christopher Korfiatis Nah, I think it's just meant to be an all purpose "action face" like when you put him in a dynamic fire fight kind of pose. I mean, hell, they have him with that face on right on the side of the box where he's got his shooty-finger hands on. They all made that face a lot in the G1 cartoon while doing anything more strenuous than just standing there. Come to think of it, sometimes they made that face even when they WERE just standing there. Lol.
The red hand pieces are for his liquid nitrogen for freezing stuff. He did that several times in season 1.
The alternate hands are for liquid nitrogen, the grey nozzle is for cement and the red nozzle is for molten lead
WolfMan Productions LIQUWOOD NIETROGAN
Ironhide was my first Transformer and I picked this up Friday from BBTS at BotCon. I don't buy many Masterpiece figures but this is one I had to buy, Again, I wish I could have stayed longer at the meetup.
8 years later lol have you seen the news of new versions coming from Xtransbots and Fanstoys?
Ironhide is one offering among many that is badly in need of an update. (I guess MP-36 is untouchable)
The hip parts look fine. People just like to complain about anything.
I know this video is a few years old, but thanks for showing the transformation. The instructions were driving me nuts!
Wow, this looks awesome. It would have blown my mind if I'd seen Transformer toys like this when I was a kid. I remember hating that none of the toys looked like the cartoon or the comics. These would be nice to display on a diorama.
Seems like they could have just made an attachable molded plate that looks aesthetically like the back of his waist, in order to hide that gap. It could be stored on the sled when detached.
A nice 40 minuite review?
Awesome! Time to sit back and watch a detailed review of my favorite Autobot it all of his Masterpiece Glory.
Ironhide is my favourite transformer too. He only had to die a couple of times before we finally could get the mp. Mines coming next week
His death is hilarious
@@bumblethis3682 did you get him
I could be wrong, But I think the hands with the Open Fingers.. were used as Fire Extinguishers when the Dinobots Set the Ark on fire.
I never thought it would be possible to have a fully transformable and mostly clean robot mode at the same time.
+Quantumformer ikr
Those are masterpieces for ya :D
+Quantumformer That's why they are called Masterpiece
Because it would up the manufacturing price and subsequently the price for customers. They like to keep things the same price since even a small variation can greatly influence how many are sold.
+Shurakina Dino They're japanese imports, you have to consider that as a result of that they get a significant price rise in foreign countries...
I have to wait for mine, as it was sent to a friends house first. Hopefully in a few weeks.
Here's my thoughts on Ironhide.
He's old...
He's yesterday's model...
But he's not quite ready for the scrap heap.
That Old Rust Bucket is far too stubborn for that! :)
Thankyou for transforming him back into vehicle mode. I needed that
I just got mine and I really love it. It is a great Masterpiece. The plastic and quality are excellent. I noticed that it is stamped made in Vietnam. That might be why the quality is so good.
Dude at 10:44 the way the alternate faceplate is on the underside of the sled it's HAUNTING! It looks like some terrifying Man in the Mirror vibe. lol
We are getting a Masterpiece Ratchet which will be released after Shockwave & Hot Rod 2.0. Then there's Optimus Primal which is to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Beast Wars.
Seems like no one is getting Optimus primal lol
Still have this guy in my pile of loot. Been a little apprehensive since pre-ordering but this video has killed that feeling. Nice review.
+bendundidit Glad i could help :) Thanks for watching!
bendundidit LOOT
The Grey hand attachments was for liquid nitrogen.
While Ironhide has some compromises on his back (I honestly hadn't noticed on my until you pointed it out!), I still think it's much better than how MP Tracks' turned out in that respect.
I just have to find a space for him!
Thanks for the awesome and helpful transformation review on both to robot mode and vehicle mode.
So much better in hand then he seems to appear in photos. The loose face is scary.
Ironhide has always been my favourite character! Thank you!
Also with regards to Takara's tabs for weapons in their hands; I usually flip the wrist 180 and then insert weapon. Fits easier and doesn't break. Wish they would make the weapon tabs better though!
I honestly cannot wait for my ironhide to arrive in the mail, I have heard too many good things and its going to be awesome to finally have him in my collection despite the "issues" people have with him, the hip skirts are a bit annoying but to me they could be easy to overlook
+DaltiniansTfs Aren't you on the Cybercast?
me?
DaltiniansTfs yes
this is not the place to dicuss this, paul doesnt need the drama on his channel
DaltiniansTfs Oh, sorry, sorry Paul.
MP Bumble had different faces as well.
I FRICKIN LOVE this Ironhide. And your review was equally as awesome!
I've always wondered, why do you use the Takara version of MP-10 for comparisons and in your display case and not the Hasbro version since you said in your review that the Hasbro version is the slightly better one because of its eyes?
+LightningBlade311 Because if you recall, i did a giveaway for the Hasbro version.
Cool review. Those funnel hands were to extinguish fire or lava I'm sure?
What Optimus Prime masterpiece is displayed with this Ironhide? Looking for a size accurate one.
The jetpack was in I believe part 3 of the More Than Meets the Eye 3 part episode (I think!)
Great review Paul!!! I had to wait until a reviewer I trust reviewed him and thanks to you I will definitely be picking him up. I've also preordered Ratchet. BTW since I grew up with G1 and saw the original movie in the theater and had it so profoundly affect me to the point where I'd dream about it I can say with certainty that the alternate face is definitely the expression he wore just before Megatron killed him. He was like NOOOOOOO!!! As always thanks for the great review and keep up the great work.
I think that the masterpiece figures are actually made for the fans to make stop motions recreating the original scenes from the movies and the tv shows, because why would the characters come with a prop that only appeared in one episode? I think they want us to make stop motions with the masterpiece figures
I can't wait to get takara masterpiece Ratchet next week to pair him up with Ironhide!
I literally like to watch your video just to see the transformation mode. I would never figure it out without breaking something
+ Optibotimus Thanks again for another great review! I personally and thrilled how just how nice this guy turned out. And quite honestly, he is one my favorites in my MP collection. I love how vibrant and deep his red color is - he really pops! I 100% recommend this guy and would go so far as to say he's a must have! Cant wait to see what they throw in the bag of goodies with Ratchet!
With the face, it's no so much that the face itself pops out easily, just that it's pretty easy when fiddling to hit that crest piece that pops it off, at least on mine. Good and bad in a sense. Mine stays on pretty well as long as I do not hit that crest piece. But it is nice to be able to swap without fear of chipping paint in the process (I'm looking at you, Bumblebee)
+tekcomputers Yes and no. It is easier to hit but i find that the other face pegs in stronger
*****
Must be something with yours...... at though at least it's not as bad as Ben and his bent weapon.
tekcomputers
I don't know what bent weapon you're talking about?
*****
The weapons reminiscent of the one that goes on the front of the sled, his was bent.
I'll take our minor QC issue over that. Only issue with mine is a paint application defect on the left rear wheel.... which is thanfully extremely minor
Great video! You're definitely my go-to when it comes to watching transformations.
Hey optibotimus
nice review as always.. love the "G1 show and tell" part :D and I with you that Ironhide's G1 robot mode is a big no no..
and speaking of his G1 robot mode, Baltmatrix did a G1 robot mode in his Masterpiece Ironhide review :)
I got mine but had to return it because of the chrome bumper was scratch and no chrome and there was some paint missing on the light so watch for it
Great review Botimus!!! Are you considering MP Shockwave and Hot Rod 2.0 when they release?
+Ricardo Johnson I have every intention on getting them :)
+optibotimus Awesome!!! I bought the MP 22 Ultra Magnus and the Gold Megatron from BBTS when I saw the reviews. I'll be on the lookout for the reviews for Shockwave and Hot Rod.
I believe the red cylinders were once used as fire extinguishers
A KO is headed my way, I forget how creaky the old MP’s were sometimes, I hope it won’t have that bad of quality
Love the presentation I just have 1 thing to say maybe you should practice your presentation several times before actually video taping so that you can go through with a Flawless presentation.... just a suggestion
I'm just not a fan of the chest. It's just my personal preference but I don't think it looks good. I'm just of the opinion that it's impossible to make a transforming IronHide that looks like his G1 robot. I mean this one comes really close in a kind-of-sort-of way, but... eh. It was an impossible task to begin with.
did they make all the Masterpiece figures like the G1's? And are they making all of them or have they, I want to get into Transformers but I want what looks like the Vintage figures, The new stuff is just straight crap..
I'm so excited that I will want one now
He's cool, but I'm hanging for JAZZ!!!!!!
Give us a mp JAZZ :)
Porsche won't give the damn license
Loved your step by step tutorials helps me a lot wtih my TF mps
Yeah Just like cartoon.....This is the one i been waiting for....The original G1 toy nothing like this...Dont get me wrong i love the G1 Stuff...but Takara Tomy really doing a good bring theses charters back to life
On mine, the gray front hip piece are so stiff i cannot move them up.
Thanks for the review Paul. I love mine.
I have the G1, I how much do these go for? I do not normally get the MP figures because they are too much money, great video.
Astrotrain Reviews1 30 bucks all day
hi obtibotimus I am such a big fan of yours and I love transformers I watched every show I had question how do buy that stuff it is so expensive and do you do a job
Does MP-27 have rubber tires?
Those hand guns are just like mp bumble's gun
Jeez botimus, you made the little tab sound more kawaii then it shoulda been
how big is ironhide,
is bluestreak the same size as wheeljack
yes
The more square boasters were for his liquid nitrogen cannon
Does look good, will admit, does look a wee bit better than what Voodoo Robots, TFC Toys, Maketoys, & such, gave us, will say that much. 😛
hey optibotimus I think the red round things are liquid nitrogen blasters
+Paul Lovellette the fingers are the nitrogen....the gray bits are fire suppression...i have no idea what the red things are
+JuggyBohab I just looked it up he uses them to shoot molten metal
his blaster reminds me of mp 21 bumblebee except their silver and not blue
MP ironhide is too big for my Classics/Mixed MP collection, that's why I'm glad there is iGear's Weapon Specialist.
everytime I look into a monitor my circuits sizzle when are we going to start busting some desepta jocks!!! og oh yeah cool review
He really looks amazing.
Fantastic review as always Sir Optibotimus! Awesome looking figure figure indeed! may have to look for this one at TFcon if they have it! you said "Subsibbled" lmao! :P
I'm not new to your channel optibotimus. I watch your reviews all the time. I'm a fan. I jst found the review a little too long for me
anyone know if Hasbro will be releasing this one? if or when? if they are, should I wait or pull the trigger and buy this takara one...
Hasbro may........ But there still far behind (just started making mp 18)
Can't wait for a Ratchet repaint!!!!
hey optibotimus,can you review Dx9 tyrant masterpiece galvatron? I love your videos
+Bimo Rizki Nope. Have no interest in buying that, sorry
Pretty good video but u may want to slow down in the future while transforming
+botfan78 I can't go too slow obviously. But there is a rewind button just in case ;)
The face is too loose and the heel spurs are way too tight. Gave me a heart attack trying to pull those spurs out without separating the plastic part from the chrome on the heel.
I have to ask, are you going to review MP-28 Hot Rodimus when it gets released?
+Tyrion133 You shouldn't even have to ask lol i review toys like that....so it makes sense i would get it to review when it's possible lol
+optibotimus Just wanted to make sure :P
Bruh I just got this beautiful figure and broke the radar dish on his arm
hum... face swapping a new thing for takara? nope, the original masterpiece seeker had them all....
still you made a great review and I thank you
Now can we get a MAsterpiece JAZZ already???!!
Mistakes happen. Allow me to make a full video apologizing for the error :p lol
+optibotimus LOLLL no its alright, you make such great vids, a mistake now and then doesnt matter
keep up the good work :)
What's the music at the beginning
I did not like the g1 toys of ironhide and ratchet
Thekeyman1 You ain't the only Bro. Lmao, i don't think anyone does.
The D.O.C. Protége I'm so glad they made these versions.
Thekeyman1 Same here. I remember, i was 6 and my older cousin bought me a G1 Ratchet. Me and Her couldn't stop laughing at it. XD but nah, it was a good move to remake these.
Hahaha. Looking back they were complete garbage. I had them both and i remember thinking...uhmm that dont look like the cartoon. Like at all
YEEESSSSDS I'VE BEEN WAITING
how many times did he say "this is really very cool "
Even to kids that G1 face sticker is just insulting
And it's disturbing
if only his back doors could open like the show
Whats the name of the intro song :)
This dude is.... Awe inspiring o.O
Wait wait wait Nissan,why on the package it have Nissan?
Yeah, third party figures do a better job sometimes. They also cost ten times as much, you'd bloody hope they're better. Although, of course, 1st party masterpiece figures typically have simpler transformations, and do a much better job of capturing the cartoon look of the character
+Magmafrost13 $200 for seeker jets? I don't think the prices are that far apart, if at all really.
MultiJamesman I payed $150 for my MP-07 _In Australia!_ I can only imagine its a lot less than that in America
Also it depends if I shop at BBTS (pricey) or HLJ.com (cheap, but expensive shipping). I got coronation starscream from BBTS for $200 and he's a floppy, un-fun piece of garbage IMO. But he comes with the big cape so maybe that added to the cost.
Magmafrost13 I get that you were exaggerating, and I agree that the 3P stuff is expensive. Agreed the smaller 3P figures are super pricey (DX9 WIP). I don't think we get what we pay for from Takara generally though.
MultiJamesman well the thing is, if you lived in Japan, you probably would get what you pay for. The secondary market prices aren't really Takara's fault. Importing from Japan to the US is going to be expensive. If Takara shipped to America themselves, they'd probably be much more reasonably priced, like they are in Australia. Although I will say, on the two Takara figures I have (MP starscream and MP Sideswipe), the QC has been sub-par at best, non-existent at worst. My MP-7 came covered in stress marks from sprew removal, and even a few bits of sprew still on it, the detail piece on the inside of his breast air intake was misaligned, and one of the leg ratchets wasn't attached properly, so its just a swivel joint (which holds fine, as it turns out). So yeah, I suppose I didn't get what I paid for there. Although from the look of this MP Ironhide, it looks like they've gotten a lot better in the past few years.
He also has a head!
@Optibotimus mine just came in the mail, he's awesomeness....
I really dont know why they gave up with the ones from the movie and went on to the crappy cartoon ones
Smoke Dweebs Everyday What?
Because the Bayformers designs are crap and are in no way as iconic as the original G1 looks. MP's are higher tier products and the people that buy them are mostly adults who prefer the characters they grew up with rather than the way too busy designs of the movies.
Pretty nice that’s one getting one
I got mine from hobbylink Japan
I have 1 thing to say. YEEEHAW
I like mp10b because is better than mp-27.
Waiting for ratchet. I just like him more