I think that Telecaster brought out some real adventurous things in Howe's playing. If this is, as Anderson envisioned, art rock, this is abstract. Love that time warp on the steel guitar!
You called it J., I was going to say Passport, but ReturnT,F. is closer. Amalgamation frustration...lol. I REALLY Dig Chaser. You can hear the Tele tone., and those guitar tones/techniques!
The drumming cadenza from Alan White during the intro is incredible even by today's advanced standards of top shelf drumming. Back in 1974, it was so ridiculously good and smooth many people barely noticed it. I've been a drummer for 50 years. I noticed. Holy shit. Neil Peart could not play this.
I have the feeling that Eddie Offord was perhaps overwhelmed by the rawer sound of the instruments and the musicians' unleashed interpretation on Relayer, so his mix doesn't come out quite right in the end. After you've finished the album, you should listen to Steven Wilson's 2014 remix for comparison, as there's still some improvement on that.
@@rumourhats I didn't know Eddie was high or anything like that, but if he was, it may well have affected his work as a sound engineer and producer on the long term.
Since you're going through their discography, you gotta do Yesshows. It's their 2nd live album and features The Gates Of Delirium and Ritual as well as music from Going For The One.
I always thought that the sound of Relayer is on purpose, they wanted to sound very raw, something very different from the sound of all their previous albums, and I think it is because of the theme of the album, that confrontation between war and peace, and they wanted to show it not only in the compositions, but also in the sound... Note that the final part of Gates, Soon, is of almost heavenly peace, and the closing song is also similar... I have two vintage editions on vinyl, from Argentina, and one of them has a sticker on the cover that says "Now with Better Sound", hahaha, maybe people thought the album sounded bad by mistake, but even the remastered CD It sounds like that too... I am also fascinated that they have done something like this, something that will never be repeated in the future...
I agree with you. Yes we’re perfectionist. If it sounds hazy, they meant it. They would have changed it and recorded it the way all these “suggestions and criticisms” are being stated! ❤
Relayer is probably among the Yes albums I know the least about. More used to hearing it live, and those versions are, in fact, much clearer. I think you’re right. It’s the recording or the mix.
Wow! Quite a few negative takes on this song. I LOVE IT! This song jams! Been a fan for over 50 years and have seen them live 50+ times. I believe they meant for it to sound as it does. Quite fun hearing it live.
It may be the remaster, I first listened to my record of Relayer on a small mono single four-inch speaker record player and it sounded a lot like listening to it on my laptop. As a sixteen-year-old prog fan I listened through the production and engineering (and my dodgy record player) as I was intent on the music, so it was a Revelation of the science of God when I eventually played it on my new stereo and heard it more clearly.
Yeah I notice it sounds a little muddy too. I know Stephen Wilson remastered a bunch of Yes albums including this one. Maybe try a S.W. remaster. I haven't listened to it myself but Im going to try it.
The Steve Wilson remix and surround version really do enhance the sound quality. There should be an Atmos version coming in the next couple of years if recent releases are anything to go by.
I couldn't agree more with you about the sound quality. I bought Relayer in 1974 and from the first time I heard it I was disappointed with the muddiness of the sound. It's always reduced my appreciation of the album. I suggest that you listen to the 2014 Steven Wilson 5.1 remix which has the best quality sound.
Being honest I think you would really appreciate Going For The One even more now. To me it was perfection and a wonderful bridge between this stuff and the ascension into the 80's. Tormato is still super underrated also in my opinion....
I'm thinking the sonic approach goes hand in hand with the band's inclination to push the soundscape envelope. The approach on Relayer became a little trickier I suppose. You could tell in a way, by Roger Dean's artwork that the album would take on an "icier" soundscape. I'm old and long since hooked, so I take the in the mix for what it is. Glad you liked Tales as well, when onboard, it's such a masterful work. I hear what you're saying about the vocal sections, but I think it was seen in part as a loosening of the structure, allowing the music to flow more freely. I do think that you'll possibly find some melodic vocal passage gems in time, Nous sommes du soleil (from Ritual), Don the Cap and Close Your Eyes, (from The Remembering), They Move Fast (from Revealing) and maybe even Leaves of Green. (The Ancient)
Hi Justin. I actually never had any issues with the production quality of this album until I bought the 2003 remaster, which is awful. Having sold my vinyl copy way back and also my first CD version, I ended up with THIS. Thankfully Steven Wilson did a remix of this album too, which you should check out. Wison kept the overall tonality but dusted of the muddiness by better seperation of the instruments and also lifted up the keyboard quite bit. He has a keen ear for improvements without loosing the original vibe of the recording. All his Yes remixes are available on Spotify under Yes - "The Steven Wilson Remixes".
SOUNDCLOUD or whatever, I can hear everything clearly that needs to be heard to get the total impact of this monster of a song! (MAYBE I HEAR IT BECAUSE in the 70's I used to listen to this with ELLIS D., highly attuned to every nuance) LOL! And It's STILL clear as a bell! AnyHowe, Steve is incredible here, Chris is Funk Fusion AF, Alan is off the chain, Jon is perfect & Patrick gets to truly shine))). Just MAYBE, Patrick's keys were mixed down for a reason? hmmm? Still, those sudden CHANGES IN TEMPO are what makes this extra-ordinarily unique! And the vocals influenced by the BALINESE MONKEY CHANT ceremony is pure genius! 1974 was my first year at Performance & Arts University where I was introduced to Indonesian Dance & Music, so I was amazed & thrilled to know that Jon was aware of the same World music as me. Everyone here is on FIRE! NOTE: All your clinical production analysis overpowers any discussion in detail of the actual CREATIVE imagination and virtuosity it takes to even come up with & pull off a WORK of ART such as this! This isn't just any normal Pop, Fusion or Rock song that can be easily dismissed as such!
YES! 😊 I have had the same thought about a couple of their albums from the 70's. It could've been a higher quality sound and/or mix. Love the music, though!
You are right about the production on this album. I DO think they wanted to go for a more densely packed, jagged approach to the overall sound, but as you noticed, there is often a sense of tonal conflict, and the instruments end up working against ine another. Steve's guitar for example, is really hard in the mid-range throughout the album. So essentially it is sitting in a place that would work well if they were a trio, so that even the lead guitar alone could play the role of 'meat and potatoes'. BUT there are banks of keys to contend with, stacked vocal harmonies, and Chris's hard-assed clanking bass sound. So the result is a big blob of mid-range and not much top and bottom. Even Alan's drums tend to be a bit flat, rather than sharp, bright tones. Production issues plagued YES for the next two albums as well. I think it wasn't until 'Drama' that we were hearing strong separation and a stark clarity in the mix again, like the 'Eddie Offord' trademark of The Yes Album and Fragile.
I love this album and I totally agree with your summary of the mix. Sadly, I think the next album going for the one is even worse. Steve Howe mixed it and did not know what he was doing.
To be fair, headphones cannot allow this type of dense soundscape to exist in a space. Most of the music of YES is best served by a quad speaker system in an appropriate space with some tweaking on an EQ to get just the right dynamics for optimal reproduction. Also headphones are never going to provide the best bass experience which is critical for YES music.
Justin, there's a more recent Steven Wilson version of 'Relayer' with a better mix, but it doesn't completely correct the sonic issues. A lot of it comes down to Steve Howe's harsh Telecaster tone, plus the amount of metallic percussion Jon Anderson wanted added to everything. Also, this is another song that has never played live by Yes except for this tour. When Yes embarked on their 'full albums' touring scheme back in the 20-teens -- back when Chris was still with us -- many of us were hoping that one day they'd get to this album. Sadly, Chris has since passed, and the band just keep getting older. Plus Steve hasn't exactly impressed anyone with his chops lately. They said they'd feature 'Relayer' on the 50th anniversary, but instead just kept kicking the ball down the road, and recently they just flat out admitted they couldn't do this music justice with the current lineup. That sort of admission of elderly infirmity is sad, but I guess I'd rather they do that than go on stage and butcher this music, even playing it at 3/4 tempo or something. P.S. Want to watch something cool? Here's a cover of "Sound Chaser" by a classical pianist. ua-cam.com/video/aqR0AP7A_l4/v-deo.html
I see what you say about the mute-ness of it all. I believe you are listening to a re-mix. The original album is much clearer and raw sounding. Much more powerful and intense.
Best version I've heard of Relayer was hdcd Japanese import. It was like taking cotton wool out your ears. The difference was enormous compared to any other medium.
In terms of muddiness, I think the biggest culprit is the way the guitars and vocals are recorded/mixed. It's like everything above 8k has been rolled off. The only instruments with anything registering above 8k are buried deep volume wise beneath them. That's why the intro sounds good when it's only keys and drums/cymbals.
I can see that I'm not missing that much if I don't have a few of these albums during this period... Not Yes, it's Yes Jazz hour. (Not that there's anything wrong with that)
A Rock Return to Forever Nice. I saw Chick and Herbie do a solo baby grands show in Philly at the Tower Theatere. Maha and Stanley Clarke what memories you just brought back to me thanks
I've been listening to this since the 70's, plus I've been playing guitar for that long, so to me it sounds clear, like I know what everything i s doing - more or less!! Plus, my first thought when listening to the above version was that it sounded a little muffed to me, or fluffy as you said, so maybe it's your version of the album and/or your overall stereo eq. I might be in the minority, but I've hated every Steve Wilson Yes remix that I've heard, but I suppose it's all subjective, at least to a point.
Best song on the album, and yes you are right it comes across as messy because everything comes from the middle! That has to do with P. Moraz, his solo work also sounds gaotic ....
Speaking of foggy, what's up with the right side of your room? My left, your right. To me it looks slightly hazy looking. Perhaps it has something to do with the time of day and the angle of the sun coming through the window. But that's neither here nor there. Yeah, Eddie really dropped the ball on this one, which is a shame; this is masterpiece level stuff. Very complicated music. Yes are playing next level here in terms of virtuosity and compositionally. Steve Howe is just going off here! 😍😎
I definitely understand your critique of the mixing and sonic space issues. If you hear some of the horrible live recordings of the band from this era you can definitely tell that Moraz's voicings don't help the listening experience. That said, I think this is some of the finest music to be composed and performed from the mid 70s, and Sound Chaser is in my top 5 songs of all time. I mentioned this on my last comment about "Gates" - find the Steven Wilson remix from 2014 ( I think) - it truly sounds as though someone took away the wet blanket from in front of the speakers and there is a clarity and separation that changes a lot. Wilson remixed The Yes Album through Relayer in the Yes catalog. Well worth investigating, especially Tales and Relayer.
Steven Wilson was asked to remix this as well as the previous four studio albums, for vinyl and 24bit-96kHz flac formats. While I refrain from commenting on the other four, this album Relayer greatly benefits from the remix job... at least on vinyl. I, like you, never liked the sound of this album; thought it was a poor mixing job. The remasters (I think there were two remasters... this being the second) didn't really improve things enough; you can only do so much for a poorly mixed record. However, once I heard Steven Wilson's remix, I knew I was right. The remix definitely opened up the sound.
Even though yes, it’s my favorite band, I also find this unlistenable. The talent is there, but there’s no chemistry, no heart, and the production only makes it worse.
I'm gonna recommend that you seek out the original recording as it was presented on the original album. Throughout your reaction to Gates, I noticed that Chris' bass contributions were less dominant than they were on the original album. I say forget about the remastered version you listened to. You can briefly compare by listening to Reactor Jim Newstead playing the original album on his turntable. You don't have to play the whole thing; just listen to that earlier section that you thought was poorly mixed to compare... ua-cam.com/video/RB1-PJNCpI0/v-deo.html
What a bloody drag! Why Why Why on this particular album! Back to my comment on Gates regarding sound reconstruction, there is a UA-cam "interview" (it's very scripted - it's half a plug for Cube-Tec) with EROC -- who was a drummer for the German Prog band Grobschnitt (2 of their albums are right up there with Fragile & CTTE!!) EROC also produced the band's music - and I wish that he was the one to produce Relayer - that's how good his production was. Anyway, in this interview he talks about what he's doing now and that's sound reconstruction and shows examples. One of which was a commissioned to restore The Yardbirds' Dazed and Confused. Words can't describe the results! Here is a link if you're interested ua-cam.com/video/g6Sbj8pg_3I/v-deo.html It starts with him talking about his time with Grobschnitt - you can skip that but it is interesting/amusing.
What do you think of those Mars Volta records? I love them, but they are recorded so "hot", it burns my ears off. Relayer, sort of, reminds me of a Mars Volta album (but recorded in the 70s)
its been awhile since i've listened to Mars Volta. Probably the album i listened to most was Bedlam in Goliath... i went to college with Thomas Pridgen I knew he was a beast. Got to see them backstage when they came around for that tour.
The sonics in Sound Chaser are more prevalent in the "Steve Wilson remixed" version. This is what you're looking for.......ua-cam.com/video/Dp7fLpJfUxk/v-deo.htmlsi=Tw6WoKRKceEY0fB4
I understand! If By-tor is The Relayer, then who is the snow dog? The answer is in the lyrics of Sound Chaser. Anderson is obviously playing the role of the beloved singing to The Relayer, especially in the 3rd verse. So, that leaves the snow dog as the one Anderson is dancing the cha-cha with when he is lost in the trance of the dancing.
Actually, this came out in 74. _Fly By Night_ came out in 75... Ahhh, the 70s. Rush were big Yes fans (Geddy Lee @ Yes' RRHF induction, "Without Yes there would be no Rush.") So often people hear Yes, and say they sound like Rush... kinda backwards. And while I like Rush, it's not really close.
I just wrote 4 paragraphs and I'm starting over. My only point is that I LOVE Yes, but something about Tales and Relayer kept me from really connecting to the records, especially Relayer. Some of it is at points they sound like they are making it up as they go along and it's missing melodies that make me feel something. They are amazing musicians, but these two records they seem to have made for themselves.
Interesting that you chose the word "cloudy" or "fog" to describe the engineering and / or recording of the best concept album of all music history. I don't hear what you are hearing, but it probably has to do with the whole album was recorded on a mobile unit at Squires house. When recording was finished, they sent the tapes to a professional studio to be mixed. That's what I get from the liner notes in the credits.
Although this album followed the template that close to the edge did, it is really very different musically from it. I was never very impressed with their mix and recording quality overall. For me it was always the musicianship that drew me to the band. The newer albums like the ladder are mixed better imo. Sadly no matter how it is remixed you can’t fix a mic that can’t produce a type of sound and you can’t make some mikes sound like it was run through a 1073 or GML when it wasn’t. You also can’t change the position of the mike in a remix.
I don’t know why, but this song has just never hit for me. When I look back at my play count in Apple Music/iTunes, I’ve discovered that in the last 15 years I have listened to it three times, most everything else from Yes is at least in the double digits, and most in the triple digits, in that same time Period.
It is their worst sounding album which is such a pity. The Steven Wilson remix from 2014 brings some improvement. Check that one out as it's definitely the go to version now.
Despite being the biggest fan, I’ve always felt it’s a dark album, with a dark cover by Roger Dean. The mix is horrible. Can’t remember if Eddie was the engineer on this one… I wouldn’t think so. Maybe Steve Wilson could do it some good.
Eddie Offord was smokin' too much weed. I still love this song, not withstanding the muddy quality of the sound. Maybe Steven Wilson needs to get hold of the masters.
I think literally all of them were smoking weed tho. They don't call Anderson the cosmic hippie for nuthin - probably well on the mushies as well. I honestly think Bruford leaving - fucked-up their "sound". Even Going for the One is literally smothered in reverb, and they produced that themselves, right?
... no puedes obtener mayor claridad remezcles lo que remezles porque no esta pensado para que sea claro y nítido. Si así fuese evitarías las superposiciones. Yes es para mi la banda con mas recursoso composicionales clásicos de su época. Aquí no hay melodía, hay trayectoria melódica en el solo de guitarra, hay desarrollo.
This piece is ultimately a wank-fest and isn't what Yes is really about. It's got some nice bits in it though. I have a feeling that for Yes critics, EVERY Yes song was a wank-fest, but they were wrong.
A prime example of a song that's more fun to play than listen to. This is terrible. Even Howe sounds bad, for reasons you mapped out really well. During this time both Genesis (Selling England By The Pound) and Pink Floyd (The Dark Side Of The Moon) released their best albums - Yes put out their worst.
I heard such big things about this track when I was in my teens... it was such a disappointment to hear it when I was in my 20s... really bad production and kinda meh... Mahavishnu/RTF ish... totally with you on the mix... terrible.. one of those records that might actually come to life a bit with some better mixing separation... I had the same reaction on Patrick Moraz's Story of I... really messy..
A complete mess. Doesn't matter how cleverly written each section was or how well the musicians performed, there's nothing for the listener to hold on to here. I suppose it's an apt title; they were certainly chasing something, but they never got within a mile of it.
50 years young. This was years ahead of its time.
On the tour for this album, they opened the show with this song! Damn!
This song is brilliant 😊😊
I think that Telecaster brought out some real adventurous things in Howe's playing. If this is, as Anderson envisioned, art rock, this is abstract. Love that time warp on the steel guitar!
The thumbs up is for your comments and the musicianship
Top notch mixing and production combined with consumate musicianship.
You called it J., I was going to say Passport, but ReturnT,F. is closer. Amalgamation frustration...lol. I REALLY Dig Chaser. You can hear the Tele tone., and those guitar tones/techniques!
The drumming cadenza from Alan White during the intro is incredible even by today's advanced standards of top shelf drumming. Back in 1974, it was so ridiculously good and smooth many people barely noticed it. I've been a drummer for 50 years. I noticed. Holy shit. Neil Peart could not play this.
Love this. But I also love Return to Forever.
@@yar9333 I wonder who wrote that opening line first. Chic or Moraz?
I have the feeling that Eddie Offord was perhaps overwhelmed by the rawer sound of the instruments and the musicians' unleashed interpretation on Relayer, so his mix doesn't come out quite right in the end.
After you've finished the album, you should listen to Steven Wilson's 2014 remix for comparison, as there's still some improvement on that.
Do you not think the fact he was constantly stoned have anything to do with it?
@@rumourhats I didn't know Eddie was high or anything like that, but if he was, it may well have affected his work as a sound engineer and producer on the long term.
Since you're going through their discography, you gotta do Yesshows. It's their 2nd live album and features The Gates Of Delirium and Ritual as well as music from Going For The One.
The take of "Ritual" on that album blows me away! (I do believe it's Moraz on the keys on that track.) The extended bass feature is stunning!
I always thought that the sound of Relayer is on purpose, they wanted to sound very raw, something very different from the sound of all their previous albums, and I think it is because of the theme of the album, that confrontation between war and peace, and they wanted to show it not only in the compositions, but also in the sound... Note that the final part of Gates, Soon, is of almost heavenly peace, and the closing song is also similar... I have two vintage editions on vinyl, from Argentina, and one of them has a sticker on the cover that says "Now with Better Sound", hahaha, maybe people thought the album sounded bad by mistake, but even the remastered CD It sounds like that too... I am also fascinated that they have done something like this, something that will never be repeated in the future...
I agree with you. Yes we’re perfectionist. If it sounds hazy, they meant it. They would have changed it and recorded it the way all these “suggestions and criticisms” are being stated! ❤
Relayer is probably among the Yes albums I know the least about. More used to hearing it live, and those versions are, in fact, much clearer. I think you’re right. It’s the recording or the mix.
Definitely 👍 check out the Steven Wilson remix of this amazing album. The clouds ☁️ are lifted away and it sounds amazingly clear!
not digital recording but music is future.
Wow! Quite a few negative takes on this song. I LOVE IT! This song jams!
Been a fan for over 50 years and have seen them live 50+ times.
I believe they meant for it to sound as it does.
Quite fun hearing it live.
Adventurous, fun and at times beautiful. Our local rock station played it a few times.
Lol. I will jump on the bandwagon to say I appreciate the steven wilson remixes of this album especially
😎
Rick Wakeman gives others more space
It may be the remaster, I first listened to my record of Relayer on a small mono single four-inch speaker record player and it sounded a lot like listening to it on my laptop. As a sixteen-year-old prog fan I listened through the production and engineering (and my dodgy record player) as I was intent on the music, so it was a Revelation of the science of God when I eventually played it on my new stereo and heard it more clearly.
Yeah I notice it sounds a little muddy too. I know Stephen Wilson remastered a bunch of Yes albums including this one. Maybe try a S.W. remaster. I haven't listened to it myself but Im going to try it.
that tv in the background is driving me crazy
🤩
I love the production on this.
The Steve Wilson remix and surround version really do enhance the sound quality. There should be an Atmos version coming in the next couple of years if recent releases are anything to go by.
I couldn't agree more with you about the sound quality. I bought Relayer in 1974 and from the first time I heard it I was disappointed with the muddiness of the sound. It's always reduced my appreciation of the album. I suggest that you listen to the 2014 Steven Wilson 5.1 remix which has the best quality sound.
Try the Steven Wilson mix
Being honest I think you would really appreciate Going For The One even more now. To me it was perfection and a wonderful bridge between this stuff and the ascension into the 80's. Tormato is still super underrated also in my opinion....
I'm thinking the sonic approach goes hand in hand with the band's inclination to push the soundscape envelope. The approach on Relayer became a little trickier I suppose. You could tell in a way, by Roger Dean's artwork that the album would take on an "icier" soundscape. I'm old and long since hooked, so I take the in the mix for what it is. Glad you liked Tales as well, when onboard, it's such a masterful work. I hear what you're saying about the vocal sections, but I think it was seen in part as a loosening of the structure, allowing the music to flow more freely. I do think that you'll possibly find some melodic vocal passage gems in time, Nous sommes du soleil (from Ritual), Don the Cap and Close Your Eyes, (from The Remembering), They Move Fast (from Revealing) and maybe even Leaves of Green. (The Ancient)
Hi Justin. I actually never had any issues with the production quality of this album until I bought the 2003 remaster, which is awful. Having sold my vinyl copy way back and also my first CD version, I ended up with THIS. Thankfully Steven Wilson did a remix of this album too, which you should check out. Wison kept the overall tonality but dusted of the muddiness by better seperation of the instruments and also lifted up the keyboard quite bit. He has a keen ear for improvements without loosing the original vibe of the recording. All his Yes remixes are available on Spotify under Yes - "The Steven Wilson Remixes".
SOUNDCLOUD or whatever, I can hear everything clearly that needs to be heard to get the total impact of this monster of a song! (MAYBE I HEAR IT BECAUSE in the 70's I used to listen to this with ELLIS D., highly attuned to every nuance) LOL! And It's STILL clear as a bell! AnyHowe, Steve is incredible here, Chris is Funk Fusion AF, Alan is off the chain, Jon is perfect & Patrick gets to truly shine))). Just MAYBE, Patrick's keys were mixed down for a reason? hmmm? Still, those sudden CHANGES IN TEMPO are what makes this extra-ordinarily unique! And the vocals influenced by the BALINESE MONKEY CHANT ceremony is pure genius! 1974 was my first year at Performance & Arts University where I was introduced to Indonesian Dance & Music, so I was amazed & thrilled to know that Jon was aware of the same World music as me. Everyone here is on FIRE! NOTE: All your clinical production analysis overpowers any discussion in detail of the actual CREATIVE imagination and virtuosity it takes to even come up with & pull off a WORK of ART such as this! This isn't just any normal Pop, Fusion or Rock song that can be easily dismissed as such!
YES! 😊 I have had the same thought about a couple of their albums from the 70's. It could've been a higher quality sound and/or mix. Love the music, though!
👍
Sounds like the music in a dirty Harry movie
You are right about the production on this album. I DO think they wanted to go for a more densely packed, jagged approach to the overall sound, but as you noticed, there is often a sense of tonal conflict, and the instruments end up working against ine another. Steve's guitar for example, is really hard in the mid-range throughout the album. So essentially it is sitting in a place that would work well if they were a trio, so that even the lead guitar alone could play the role of 'meat and potatoes'.
BUT there are banks of keys to contend with, stacked vocal harmonies, and Chris's hard-assed clanking bass sound. So the result is a big blob of mid-range and not much top and bottom. Even Alan's drums tend to be a bit flat, rather than sharp, bright tones. Production issues plagued YES for the next two albums as well. I think it wasn't until 'Drama' that we were hearing strong separation and a stark clarity in the mix again, like the 'Eddie Offord' trademark of The Yes Album and Fragile.
I love this album and I totally agree with your summary of the mix. Sadly, I think the next album going for the one is even worse. Steve Howe mixed it and did not know what he was doing.
I Agree. The Germany pressing does sound a lot better, though.
Try the Steven Wilson Remixes, although IMO it's even softer -- well smoother -- but you may like it.
To be fair, headphones cannot allow this type of dense soundscape to exist in a space. Most of the music of YES is best served by a quad speaker system in an appropriate space with
some tweaking on an EQ to get just the right dynamics for optimal reproduction. Also headphones are never going to provide the best bass experience which is critical for YES music.
100% Agreed
Justin, there's a more recent Steven Wilson version of 'Relayer' with a better mix, but it doesn't completely correct the sonic issues. A lot of it comes down to Steve Howe's harsh Telecaster tone, plus the amount of metallic percussion Jon Anderson wanted added to everything. Also, this is another song that has never played live by Yes except for this tour. When Yes embarked on their 'full albums' touring scheme back in the 20-teens -- back when Chris was still with us -- many of us were hoping that one day they'd get to this album. Sadly, Chris has since passed, and the band just keep getting older. Plus Steve hasn't exactly impressed anyone with his chops lately. They said they'd feature 'Relayer' on the 50th anniversary, but instead just kept kicking the ball down the road, and recently they just flat out admitted they couldn't do this music justice with the current lineup. That sort of admission of elderly infirmity is sad, but I guess I'd rather they do that than go on stage and butcher this music, even playing it at 3/4 tempo or something. P.S. Want to watch something cool? Here's a cover of "Sound Chaser" by a classical pianist. ua-cam.com/video/aqR0AP7A_l4/v-deo.html
I see what you say about the mute-ness of it all. I believe you are listening to a re-mix. The original album is much clearer and raw sounding. Much more powerful and intense.
Wilson’s remixes ruined Tales and this album. Totally changed the vibe that was meant
@@andrewk5710 Why would anyone buy remixes? Do we remix paintings?
BTW Wilson's a jack asp.
Best version I've heard of Relayer was hdcd Japanese import. It was like taking cotton wool out your ears. The difference was enormous compared to any other medium.
Absolutely
In terms of muddiness, I think the biggest culprit is the way the guitars and vocals are recorded/mixed. It's like everything above 8k has been rolled off. The only instruments with anything registering above 8k are buried deep volume wise beneath them. That's why the intro sounds good when it's only keys and drums/cymbals.
Production
Does anyone think that the Steven Wilson remix fixed any of these issues with the muddy mixing?
I can see that I'm not missing that much if I don't have a few of these albums during this period... Not Yes, it's Yes Jazz hour. (Not that there's anything wrong with that)
A Rock Return to Forever Nice. I saw Chick and Herbie do a solo baby grands show in Philly at the Tower Theatere. Maha and Stanley Clarke what memories you just brought back to me thanks
I've been listening to this since the 70's, plus I've been playing guitar for that long, so to me it sounds clear, like I know what everything i s doing - more or less!! Plus, my first thought when listening to the above version was that it sounded a little muffed to me, or fluffy as you said, so maybe it's your version of the album and/or your overall stereo eq. I might be in the minority, but I've hated every Steve Wilson Yes remix that I've heard, but I suppose it's all subjective, at least to a point.
You don't yet have the sophistication to understand this level of symphonic experience.
Oh my god lol 🤦♂️🤦♂️im sure you do though…. Good job. 👏
Best song on the album, and yes you are right it comes across as messy because everything comes from the middle! That has to do with P. Moraz, his solo work also sounds gaotic
....
Speaking of foggy, what's up with the right side of your room? My left, your right. To me it looks slightly hazy looking. Perhaps it has something to do with the time of day and the angle of the sun coming through the window. But that's neither here nor there. Yeah, Eddie really dropped the ball on this one, which is a shame; this is masterpiece level stuff. Very complicated music. Yes are playing next level here in terms of virtuosity and compositionally. Steve Howe is just going off here! 😍😎
Was recorded at Chris's house in a new studio
I definitely understand your critique of the mixing and sonic space issues. If you hear some of the horrible live recordings of the band from this era you can definitely tell that Moraz's voicings don't help the listening experience. That said, I think this is some of the finest music to be composed and performed from the mid 70s, and Sound Chaser is in my top 5 songs of all time. I mentioned this on my last comment about "Gates" - find the Steven Wilson remix from 2014 ( I think) - it truly sounds as though someone took away the wet blanket from in front of the speakers and there is a clarity and separation that changes a lot. Wilson remixed The Yes Album through Relayer in the Yes catalog. Well worth investigating, especially Tales and Relayer.
Great strange song ! Listen to the Steven Wilson remix that has better separation ! ;-)
Steven Wilson was asked to remix this as well as the previous four studio albums, for vinyl and 24bit-96kHz flac formats.
While I refrain from commenting on the other four, this album Relayer greatly benefits from the remix job... at least on vinyl.
I, like you, never liked the sound of this album; thought it was a poor mixing job. The remasters (I think there were two remasters... this being the second) didn't really improve things enough; you can only do so much for a poorly mixed record. However, once I heard Steven Wilson's remix, I knew I was right. The remix definitely opened up the sound.
I never could listen to this particular song. I think your judgment was spot on. However, I really do think you may enjoy the last song "To be over".
Even though yes, it’s my favorite band, I also find this unlistenable. The talent is there, but there’s no chemistry, no heart, and the production only makes it worse.
I'm gonna recommend that you seek out the original recording as it was presented on the original album. Throughout your reaction to Gates, I noticed that Chris' bass contributions were less dominant than they were on the original album. I say forget about the remastered version you listened to. You can briefly compare by listening to Reactor Jim Newstead playing the original album on his turntable. You don't have to play the whole thing; just listen to that earlier section that you thought was poorly mixed to compare... ua-cam.com/video/RB1-PJNCpI0/v-deo.html
The absolute original is best IMHO ❤
The Squire bass is lost in many mixes
What a bloody drag! Why Why Why on this particular album! Back to my comment on Gates regarding sound reconstruction, there is a UA-cam "interview" (it's very scripted - it's half a plug for Cube-Tec) with EROC -- who was a drummer for the German Prog band Grobschnitt (2 of their albums are right up there with Fragile & CTTE!!) EROC also produced the band's music - and I wish that he was the one to produce Relayer - that's how good his production was. Anyway, in this interview he talks about what he's doing now and that's sound reconstruction and shows examples. One of which was a commissioned to restore The Yardbirds' Dazed and Confused. Words can't describe the results! Here is a link if you're interested ua-cam.com/video/g6Sbj8pg_3I/v-deo.html It starts with him talking about his time with Grobschnitt - you can skip that but it is interesting/amusing.
What do you think of those Mars Volta records? I love them, but they are recorded so "hot", it burns my ears off. Relayer, sort of, reminds me of a Mars Volta album (but recorded in the 70s)
its been awhile since i've listened to Mars Volta. Probably the album i listened to most was Bedlam in Goliath... i went to college with Thomas Pridgen I knew he was a beast. Got to see them backstage when they came around for that tour.
The sonics in Sound Chaser are more prevalent in the "Steve Wilson remixed" version. This is what you're looking for.......ua-cam.com/video/Dp7fLpJfUxk/v-deo.htmlsi=Tw6WoKRKceEY0fB4
Yes is cool and weird. Andersons voice is unique. Howe s playing is spot on. Wakemans keys are unmatchable. Songs are ... meh. BOSTON rocks!
Eddie Offord added way too many pillows and muffling blankets to this recording of the album.
I haven't heard Steve Wilson "REMIX" but that might be the way to go.
Not the stereo mix - I don't know about the 5.1 mix -- I don't have surround sound.
A mucking fuddle
Did I hear a little Biter and the Snow Dog in the middle there? (calm down, JP will understand)
The guitar swells, yes!
I understand! If By-tor is The Relayer, then who is the snow dog? The answer is in the lyrics of Sound Chaser. Anderson is obviously playing the role of the beloved singing to The Relayer, especially in the 3rd verse. So, that leaves the snow dog as the one Anderson is dancing the cha-cha with when he is lost in the trance of the dancing.
Actually, this came out in 74. _Fly By Night_ came out in 75... Ahhh, the 70s.
Rush were big Yes fans (Geddy Lee @ Yes' RRHF induction, "Without Yes there would be no Rush.")
So often people hear Yes, and say they sound like Rush... kinda backwards. And while I like Rush, it's not really close.
😂
I just wrote 4 paragraphs and I'm starting over. My only point is that I LOVE Yes, but something about Tales and Relayer kept me from really connecting to the records, especially Relayer. Some of it is at points they sound like they are making it up as they go along and it's missing melodies that make me feel something. They are amazing musicians, but these two records they seem to have made for themselves.
My mom didn't get it either.
Interesting that you chose the word "cloudy" or "fog" to describe the engineering and / or recording of the best concept album of all music history. I don't hear what you are hearing, but it probably has to do with the whole album was recorded on a mobile unit at Squires house. When recording was finished, they sent the tapes to a professional studio to be mixed. That's what I get from the liner notes in the credits.
I think it's over progged.
Although this album followed the template that close to the edge did, it is really very different musically from it.
I was never very impressed with their mix and recording quality overall. For me it was always the musicianship that drew me to the band. The newer albums like the ladder are mixed better imo. Sadly no matter how it is remixed you can’t fix a mic that can’t produce a type of sound and you can’t make some mikes sound like it was run through a 1073 or GML when it wasn’t. You also can’t change the position of the mike in a remix.
I dont get you cloud idea...elaborate
I don’t know why, but this song has just never hit for me. When I look back at my play count in Apple Music/iTunes, I’ve discovered that in the last 15 years I have listened to it three times, most everything else from Yes is at least in the double digits, and most in the triple digits, in that same time Period.
It is their worst sounding album which is such a pity. The Steven Wilson remix from 2014 brings some improvement. Check that one out as it's definitely the go to version now.
I believe Steven Wilson's remix of this album is much better.
Despite being the biggest fan, I’ve always felt it’s a dark album, with a dark cover by Roger Dean. The mix is horrible. Can’t remember if Eddie was the engineer on this one… I wouldn’t think so. Maybe Steve Wilson could do it some good.
Eddie Offord was smokin' too much weed. I still love this song, not withstanding the muddy quality of the sound. Maybe Steven Wilson needs to get hold of the masters.
I think literally all of them were smoking weed tho. They don't call Anderson the cosmic hippie for nuthin - probably well on the mushies as well. I honestly think Bruford leaving - fucked-up their "sound". Even Going for the One is literally smothered in reverb, and they produced that themselves, right?
Earlier mixes were better...this must be different...maybe is my recollection of it... my mix seems to be better
... no puedes obtener mayor claridad remezcles lo que remezles porque no esta pensado para que sea claro y nítido. Si así fuese evitarías las superposiciones. Yes es para mi la banda con mas recursoso composicionales clásicos de su época. Aquí no hay melodía, hay trayectoria melódica en el solo de guitarra, hay desarrollo.
This piece is ultimately a wank-fest and isn't what Yes is really about. It's got some nice bits in it though. I have a feeling that for Yes critics, EVERY Yes song was a wank-fest, but they were wrong.
A prime example of a song that's more fun to play than listen to. This is terrible. Even Howe sounds bad, for reasons you mapped out really well. During this time both Genesis (Selling England By The Pound) and Pink Floyd (The Dark Side Of The Moon) released their best albums - Yes put out their worst.
I heard such big things about this track when I was in my teens... it was such a disappointment to hear it when I was in my 20s... really bad production and kinda meh... Mahavishnu/RTF ish... totally with you on the mix... terrible.. one of those records that might actually come to life a bit with some better mixing separation...
I had the same reaction on Patrick Moraz's Story of I... really messy..
A complete mess. Doesn't matter how cleverly written each section was or how well the musicians performed, there's nothing for the listener to hold on to here. I suppose it's an apt title; they were certainly chasing something, but they never got within a mile of it.
Musical narcissism. Another example of virtuosity wasted on poor composition. I still like YES with fond memories and get into it. But ... i dunno
Too many sounds and too much chasing for my ears.