faith wants forgiveness but no one will give it to her...no matter where she turns things just get worse. no one in sunnydale trusted her, cordelia didn't, wesley didn;t...angel is the ONLY person who can relate with what she has done.
I mean, by the end, she was legit just trying to get Angel to want to kill her. That was her motivation to torture Wesley and to hurt Cordelia - her entire goal was to get Angel to come after her without remorse, like someone below said, "suicide by cop" and still he saw through it and what she was actually doing..
I think that was her goal throughout this episode. Even from the beginning, her behaviour was self-destructive, she's a fugitive, and she's purposefully attracting attention. If Angel hadn't been there, she probably would have kept going until she managed to commit suicide by cop or something.
@@kilian-one-l Absolutely; from the momentshe realised who she was expected to kill her aim was for Angel to end her pain and likely she was on that road before she got to LA and was going to end up confronting him eventually for that same purpose, kerk
Faith was considering 'turning good' because she thought that was an option in Buffy's body and she always wanted Buffy's life. Once she was back in her own body she saw herself as even dirtier and more irredeemable. She absolutely wanted Angel to kill her. That's what the whole 'in the game' thing was about. Faith's whole life has been spent being abused, called trash and then ignored in the best of times. Once she started giving into it and doing evil, it's all she can see of herself.
Yeah, so, I think for the well-adjusted, suicidality isn’t always easy to recognize. But Faith genuinely wants to die here. “Suicide by Cop” is the term of art, and it’s something Angel recognizes - he attempted it himself in Buffy episode 1x7.
That scene rips me up inside. Baring her pain and self hatred so openly. It’s like a continuation of when she was pounding her own face calling her self a murderer. And knowing Angel tried the same thing shortly after the curse. Yelling “I’m a monster,” trying to get them to kill him. Seems like he knew almost from the beginning what she wanted and he wasn’t going to kill her, hoping he could reach her. So powerful.
@@zemoxian Her pounding her own face and calling herself a murderer was such a powerful scene, and this is DEFINITELY a continuation of that. She really really hates herself.
@@Nexusofgeek I feel your pain. Though I'll admit to loving the first three seasons 😬 Then kind of liking the next three. Then loathing it and retroactively seeing all its problems. ...The lawyer still looks like Evil Sheldon, though 😁
@@Philbert-s2c while I like the "Passion of the nerd" and I like having discussions about the meaning of the episodes of Buffy or Angel, he over-analysis🧠 Especially in his latest reviews, which he admits that he likes the episodes but because he's now over over-analyze things, he sounds more like he's complaining because he noticed a couple of small flaws in the episodes, forgetting that there's no such thing as perfection. But still a good channel to see👍
This episode is the poster child for why its so awesome you don't know the episode titles before watching. It was so much better that Faith took you by surprise.
Wesley: "If there's even a chance she could be reasoned with..." Angel: "There was. Last year, I had a shot at saving her. I was pulling her back from the brink when some British guy kidnapped her and made damn sure that she'd never trust another living soul." Cordelia: "Angel, it's not Wesley's fault that some British guy ruined your- Oh, wait." (to Wesley) "That was you." (to Angel) "Go on."
wesley went ahead and took a delicate situation involving a potentially dangerous person into his own hands Instead of consulting anyone who was involved? Boy, it sure is a good thing he never does anything like that again.
I love how, in hindsight, Faith's actions in the episode really do foreshadow the ending. Faith has never been subtle, but she's usually not "mug a guy and then spend several days living in his flat, start a mass brawl for literally no reason beyond 'she felt like it' and shoot a guy with a crossbow in public" levels of blatant. Remember, she's a wanted felon, yet she could not possibly be drawing more attention to herself. That makes so much more sense when you realize that she wanted to die - I'm sure she wouldn't have cared if she'd died in a police shootout instead of being killed by Angel. Also, there's no way she could possibly have known that Angel would only fire one round before tossing the gun back. Even if he'd only hit her in the leg, a shot to the leg can still kill a person if they're unlucky. She was playing Russian Roulette in that scene...
As to why Darla went looking for that girl: back in S1 of Buffy, when we first learn about the curse, Angel tells Buffy that the Romani girl he feeds from is 16 and a favourite of her clan. We know from Drusilla that Angelus loves to corrupt so her youth and innocence would have attracted him, but more than this, I think he would be drawn to how beloved she is. Think of Passion and Jenny's death. Angelus will always go for the pain. Darla knew this about him. She revelled in his capability to inflict pain. Encouraged him in it. Which is one of the reasons why she is so repulsed to discover he has a soul - a conscience. It's a kind of shadow version of "this is not the man I fell in love with" disillusionment.
The earlier episodes have their worth, but this one, for me, is when Angel really becomes the show I love. Well, this one and the next one, but it starts in this one. The real core of what this show is about finally takes form here. Angel's feelings of self-loathing shortly after being ensouled juxtaposed with Faith, who has just had a pretty rough wake up call of sorts and is spiraling herself. Everything comes together in this wild chemical reaction of emotions and combat. They can't all be this good, of course, but I feel like this one really pushes the show forward and develops its identity. Definitely a chef's kiss of an episode for me.
I think the whole point of Faith's behavior in this episode was to find someone to kill her. Her over-the-top behavior, how she kept trying to egg Angel on. She just wanted to die, maybe because she felt she'd gone too far to come back, or because she was scared to accept the consequences of her actions, guilt, shame, etc.
I love this episode but my favorite bit of trivia is that they wanted the final scene in the rain the budget wouldn't allow for it and than the day they were going to film it a massive storm rolled in that lasted a few days, some of Superstar was filmed during the same storm.
What stands out for me in this episode is how perfectly the flashbacks dovetail with the main story: the crushing guilt Angel felt when he first got his soul back is how he understands what Faith is feeling, and so is able to see past her act and realize she’s actually attempting suicide-by-Angel. And then he follows up that realization by refusing to do it: that would be the easy way out for him as well as her, but he won’t let her escape her own journey down the hard road he traveled.
I love your analyses of shots. I always see something I never thought of before. I think you're right about Faith's size in the shot. It shows how Faith is a genuine, scary threat. Powers of a superhero but turned villain. These big bad powerful lawyers are tiny in her presence. It also shows how volatile she is. How unstable. She's not under anyone's control, least of all her own.
Back in '02 I was taking a class at the Technology Center of DuPage for film, mostly editing and camera work. We had a guest who worked on this episode of Angel and he told us a story about this scene: When they were filming the last scene, they had to pay people in the apartments above to turn their lights off, because it was messing with the shot. There was one guy who refused until he got David and Eliza's autograph, so the tech forged their signatures (didn't want to bring them into this) and gave it to the guy to appease him. I really wish I could remember the name of the guy who talked to us. I have Asperger's so eye contact wasn't a thing for me back then, don't remember his face at all. He gave us all kinds of tips and tricks for camera work.
I don't think you can turn from murderer to back to good that quickly. But her attempts to get Angel to kill her could be seen as part of that revelation she had when body swapped with Buffy. She's been reminded of the capacity for good and evil - as opposed to her previous want, take, have philosophy - and can now see she's clearly on the wrong side of that line. So she's filled with disgust and self loathing and, as you say, thinks she has nothing good to offer, isn't capable of doing good, so suicide by cop (Angel) seems the only option left to her.
I think your analysis of the Wolfram & Heart scene is pretty spot on. I would add that through almost the entire scene Faith's face is either obscured or in shadow, while the three lawyers faces are always visible and well lit, adding to her power in that situation.
I think Faith's been lost since the body swap and drowning in self-loathing. She didn't particularly care one way or the other about the Wolfram & Hart job until they said Angel and Faith saw a chance to finally end it all.
That ending scene sticked with me. Its so freaking powerful. We had glimpses of her regreat and denial, but she was truly trying to kill herself other than face what she has done. Faith's arc is so strong
The vampire Russell Winters in the first episode wasn't the head of the Wolfram & Hart, he was just a wealthy client. He was in his own skyscraper when Angel pushed him to his death, not the W&H building. Lindsey McDonald was there as his lawyer. Lee Mercer was the lawyer in "Sense & Sensitivity", where the police were all put under a sensitivity spell, and I'm sure you recognize Lilah Morgan from the more recent "The Ring" when she unsuccessfully tried to cut a deal with Angel. The scripts says that Darla 'reacts to Angelus having a soul the way a normal person would to a vampire'. It also says to keep the homoerotic subtext in the scene where Lilah picks up Faith "very sub", which is annoying. I'm sure your analysis of the scene isn't incorrect. You're the only reactor I've followed who talks about that aspect, and I really like that! Faith's mom's dead and her dad's in prison, both were drunkards and Faith made a reference to her mother hitting "harder than that" while fighting a vampire. .
To be honest I always felt like the scooby gang didn't treat Faith that great when they first met her. They weren't mean, but they definitely weren't welcoming, especially Buffy. A lot could have been different if she was kinder to Faith.
the transitions between scenes are a lot like the visions that doyle--and now cordelia--have. It's like the viewer is being subjected to the Powers the Be the same as Angel is.
You have seen that lawyer before, in the first episode when Angel push the vampire out of the window Lindsay was the lawyer that was in the room with him. This was always one of my favorite episodes because I love faith and also because it introduced Lila. She's also one of my favorite characters.
"5 by 5" is slang for everything is fine. Which is a juxtaposition for faith where everything is not fine. It's also a line from the Alien movie said by the pilot of the drop ahip that brings Ripley down to the alien planet where all the bad stuff happens. Faith saying this line is not only an homage to the movie; but also a forshadow that something bad is about to happen.
I looooove this episode. Buffy is all "I'm growing up and its hard" and show Faith in relation to that. Angel is all "I have regrets and its hard" and shows Faith in relation to that. She just feels richer in that context.
Yep. The absolute standout gem in season 1. Faiths spiral and her mask of the badass b*tch who doesn't care finally comes off, Wesley FINALLY becomes Wes after a good torture session, we see what precipitated Angels whole gypsy curse and the immediate aftermath, and more Wolfram and Hart stuff. God I love this episode. Eliza Dushku played Faith's breakdown so damn well. Also Alley, don't censor yourself for online trolls who are constantly offended. Gypsies are nowhere near a derogatory term.
One of the great things about The Buffyverse is the reintroduction of past characters such as Darla, Faith etc. As we are aware of the curse on Angel, and we get to see Darla ( who of course was the first person to speak and be featured on S1 E1 of BTVS ) who was of course Angel's sire. We see again Faith who with a soul, is at this point as evil as they come, but is clearly having a mental breakdown and needs help. This is one of the best episodes of the whole show, and also important in Wesley's character arc making him of the greatest characters in The Buffyverse. This is one of the episodes which illustrates how Angel as a show is easily a match for BTVS, and is very much different in many ways. A stunning ending in the alleyway in the rain which leads on to another blockbuster of an episode to follow. We can see you are really now loving this show. I cannot understand how many BTVS fans never watched Angel.
Faith is the number one reason I recommend that people watch both shows. Angel stands well enough on its own, but the context of the characters' pasts, especially in Buffy S3, gives that much more weight to it. And Buffy stands well enough on its own, crossovers notwithstanding, but Cordelia, Wesley, Angel, and Faith all move on and grow in such interesting ways that only watching BtVS leaves so much character development unfulfilled.
@@lurker1316 Spoilers I don't think those 4 characters would have thrived as well if they had stayed on BTVS. There really didn't seem to be enough room on BTVS for everyone to have the character development that they needed imo. Even some of the other characters that stayed on BTVS for me didn't seem to get enough attention and development that I would have liked to have seen.
Omg I am SO excited for this reaction, I’m so glad you didn’t get spoiled about Faith! PS As an aspiring lawyer and a huge buffy/angel fan, I love all of your musings about wolfram and hart. Lilah is my queen, she’s such a vibe 👑
Lindsey Mc Donald is there from the beginning. He is in the first epsiode of Angel, is in the room when Angel throws that vampire through the window. Also, you misinterpreted it a little bit, at the end of Faith last episode in Buffy she didn't have any sort of cartharsis. She is still on her evil path. And at the end of this episode she definitely wants Angel to kill her, she's trying 'suicide by cop'.
The Faith and Lawyers scene, the way you talk about it, reminds me of art terms like "foreground and background". And the Artist does some of his storytelling in who he chooses to put in the foreground. Thanks for that. She does dominate that room. Then pointing out Faith in the sunlight, Angel in the shadows, together with your later thoughts on (the lady named) Faith--it got me thinking. In the previous two episodes, Faith really had a chance to see what it was like to walk the high path, in the Light. She had been living in Buffy's Shadow for awhile--"nothing she did was good enough". But then she sees the other side of it. And doesn't want to let go. But Buffy takes it back, the (main) Slayer Role. And Faith finds herself STUCK in her own body--trapped. And lost, with no new Mayor-type figure to guide her. Then, back to the scene in Angel's office, by being the one who can stand in the sunlight, she's rubbing his nose in the misery of being stuck in the shadows--an indirect commentary on herself. The power dynamic should favor her--she's the slayer--but her heart's not in it. (Her soul isn't in it.) I love this episode. Thanks again for giving me an excuse to revisit it.
I love these four Faith-centric episodes. They really do a lot for her character. It’s so interesting how on Buffy she looked fine (physically) but here on Angel she looks ill.
@@ShieldVids Very not funny. Especially when he's recently been sharing all the crappy comments he's been getting (still, despite having to address it before). Think before you type.
Surprised there wasn’t more on what happened to Wesley. To me this was the first time his character/principals were really challenged and he showed a darker side to him. Still loved the reaction though.
This episode finally lets you in on Faith's psyche. She gets real, and when you rewatch all the previous Faith episodes understanding that she actually HATES herself for killing the innocent bystander and wants to die, it paints everything so differently. She's trying to suppress her grief under bravado. She's acting out in the way the she sees herself as, as the villian. So she goes for the one person who ALMOST got through to her way back when she was chained up, Angel. She sees him as a kindred spirit, cursed with evil actions in their past that they have to learn to live with and don't know if they can ever make up for.
Faith didn't just rob the guy, she also killed him😱 Faith was staying at the guy's place but Angel was able to walk(smash) through the door, uninvited. Nice little detail there👍
He was in Hospital; it's mentioned at one point. Always assumed it wasn't really his place, but yeah; could be he'd died by that point in the story. kerk
@@rayharley597 that's kind of the point. Angel as a vampire cannot go into a place of residence without being invited and as you can see, the place Faith is staying at, has furniture. Faith beat the shit out of the guy, took his jacket, his money & keys and since we never see her in a car, it's a pretty good assumption. If you are saying the guy didn't die right away but later died in a hospital bed, it doesn't really matter. The moment he died, is the moment Angel was allowed to come into the apartment that Faith was illegally in😯
When Alley is finished watching Buffy and Angel in 74 years....i can feel a Ted Talk coming with the viewpoint of how these 2 shows have changed her life
Five by Five is genuinely one of my favorite buffy verse episodes. I love that scene in the alleyway between Faith and Angel. Just amazing and so emotional. Faith's attempt through the whole episode of 'suicide by cop' is made really clear there. It's just so heart wrenching.
This is on my top five list of Angel for the entire series. A real contender for best Angel episode, in my opinion. And definitely one of the best fight scenes in the Buffyverse too.
Stereotypically, as a guy I'm not supposed to cry at movies or TV shows. I cherish the ones that get me so invested that a strong character moment can take me there. This is one of them, and why Faith is one of my three fave characters. I mean...she was highly entertaining form the start, but I'm a sucker for a heartfelt redemption arc. Been so eager for you to get to this one!!
Hey. When Angel turned to catch the arrow, said arrow was just in front of his heart... BUT That means when he had his back turned the arrow was not at all gonna hit his heart. So that means Faith missed on purpose.
My personal favorite episode in all of Buffyverse. Alley, I think you missed the mark a bit here. Faith came to LA to go on with her self-loathing life. But once she found Angel was in town, she had only one goal. "Suicide by Cop". She first tried it by playing Russian Roulette with a loaded gun. When that didnt work, she went one step further. She could have easily killed Cordy or Wesley, she didnt. But she did just enough damage to rile up Angel and kill her. Angel saw through this really early - the flashbacks were there to show the experiences of a self-loathing Angel which enabled him to see the signs. This is why he never fights Faith, just defends himself. He doesnt kill her but waits for the moment for her to break and come to him. The last shot of Angel holding Faith in the rain and Wesley dropping the knife is just divine - chefs kiss! Joss at his best. P.S. - This episode was right after "This Years Girl" and "Who Are You".
It was about two months later, actually. "This Years Girl" and "Who Are You" aired on February 22 and February 29. "Five by Five" and "Sanctuary" aired on April 25 and May 2.
not sure if Darla yelling "I'll kill you!" is a threat or just a statement of fact. not always the best impulse control, but she does know herself. i'm not even saying she wants to save him, but he does suddenly seem useless to her now, and perhaps she'd rather buy time to "fix" him and get him back.
That ending scene is still one of my favourites of all time in the buffyverse funfact: the end scene called for rain but it wasn't in the budget so they decided to do without & then when they were filming it, it started raining & I just am so glad about that unpopular opinion but Lindsey & Lila can absolutely get it The current name for the group of people is Romani I love Angel's wtf just happened after Faith shoots the crossbow like "di- did Faith just shoot me in public with a crossbow?" Angel: shoot me with an arrow once shame on me, shoot me twi- nope not this time
I am not sure how many times I have watched buffyverse through. And I am sure I will never get tired of it. Buffy and Angel are amazing shows with so many amazing characters!
That feeling when you realize the woman you invited in is capable of killing everyone in the room within seconds, and crazy enough to do it for no particular reason. It's not an ENTIRELY unfamiliar feeling at Wolfram and Hart, but certainly a disturbing one.
Lol it’s funny how you ask if the law firm is gonna come up again and then this is literally the episode where they hire Faith to take Angel out 😂. Good old Wolfram and Hart
I remember watching this when it aired, and a feeling that had been developing throughout the season crystalized.... That feeling that, "Whoah. I'm gonna love this show more than Buffy. How is that possible?"
Great reaction. Couple of things The building they were in when Faith shot at Angel probably has a parking garage. His car has tinted windows, he gets around like that alot. When Faith saw Buffy in her body (and proceeded to try beating her own face in) and then got switched back to that body that is when she reverted back. It was only ever being in Buffy's body that gave her the feeling of wanting to do right.
I think suicide is what Faith was hoping for with Buffy until she received the package from The Mayor and viewed that as her 2nd chance. Just before Buffy switched their bodies back all she saw was her own "disgusting" body, so when Buffy switched them again Faith ran. I don't think she ever considered suicide by Buffy. But suicide by Angel would be no problem as the last time they really spoke he told her about his issues with killing people to identify with what she was going through. Not considering Buffy to do the job shows that deep down she doesn't want Buffy to be as "disgusting" as she views herself. Luckily, Angel realized what was going on in Faith's head and can now potentially start helping her the way she always needed since before she even arrived in Sunnydale. 5:54-5:57 I always wondered why Billy's girlfriend wasn't more upset with Billy. At least before Faith starts the brawl. Eliza's acting in the episode is great, but the last scene after she and Angel fall through the window until the episode's end is, I think, her best. I always found it a little ironic that Faith never says "Five by Five" and yet it is still the perfect title for the episode as it means she is "fine" and she is anything but fine. Thus showing, in my opinion, that any time she says it, she has been anything but fine.
That's a really interesting notion I hadn't thought of - that Faith doesn't want Buffy to become like her. To start with, she actively tries to make Buffy like her - to get her on board with her want, take, have philosophy - all the way up to their conversation when Buffy tries to drain her. She was eaten up with jealousy towards Buffy, and yet in some way didn't want to bring her down to "her" level 👌
@@jaycievictory8461 I just always assumed it was posturing and failed attempts to be friends. Then the Deputy Mayor happened and it becomes denial. Not just about what she did to Alan, but also about what she wants from Buffy aka whether she really wants Buffy to be like her or not.
This and the rest of the season are the times when I wish Alley would post 2 videos a week lol The rest of this season and Buffy season 4 are TOP NOTCH!! And I need these reactions YESTERDAY!!! 😩😩😩😩😩
Alright, this is where the fun begins!! Anyone else just been waiting for this episode? Also, Alley, if you enjoyed this episode I can't wait for your reaction to the next one 😁
I dont think Faith wanted atention. At the end, i belive that she just want it over, she finally started to understend and feel all the bad that she had done and thats why she cry in Angel arms. I saw it as Faith baisicly traing to commit suicide via Angel, and that was why the entire episode she keeps saying to him "You ara not in the game" meaning that she wants him to kill her, thats why also she went after Cordy and Wes, to push Angel to just forget about his journey of redemption, of not be a killer anymore, and just end her.
I guess in Buffy's body, it was easier for Faith to leave her past behind and try to do good. She might have felt like having a clean slate and getting a second chance at life. Back in her own body, however, she got faced with all of her sins. She defines herself by all of her mistakes and doesn't see a way to be a good person going forward. Here, she basically has to do the harder thing of making the same choice while embracing everything she is and has done.
I really liked your explanation of 'learned helplessness' in a previous reaction assessing Faith's character and I feel like this episode is the peak moment of devastating outlook on display. It honestly feels really similar to character in Catra in She-Ra and the Princesses of Power in some ways. Great works as usual.
Faith didn't want attention from Angel. She wanted him to put her out of her misery. She was looking for suicide by vampire.
faith wants forgiveness but no one will give it to her...no matter where she turns things just get worse. no one in sunnydale trusted her, cordelia didn't, wesley didn;t...angel is the ONLY person who can relate with what she has done.
I mean, by the end, she was legit just trying to get Angel to want to kill her. That was her motivation to torture Wesley and to hurt Cordelia - her entire goal was to get Angel to come after her without remorse, like someone below said, "suicide by cop" and still he saw through it and what she was actually doing..
I think that was her goal throughout this episode. Even from the beginning, her behaviour was self-destructive, she's a fugitive, and she's purposefully attracting attention. If Angel hadn't been there, she probably would have kept going until she managed to commit suicide by cop or something.
@@kilian-one-l Absolutely; from the momentshe realised who she was expected to kill her aim was for Angel to end her pain and likely she was on that road before she got to LA and was going to end up confronting him eventually for that same purpose, kerk
Faith was considering 'turning good' because she thought that was an option in Buffy's body and she always wanted Buffy's life. Once she was back in her own body she saw herself as even dirtier and more irredeemable. She absolutely wanted Angel to kill her. That's what the whole 'in the game' thing was about. Faith's whole life has been spent being abused, called trash and then ignored in the best of times. Once she started giving into it and doing evil, it's all she can see of herself.
The production didn't have the budget to make it rain on cue. They just got lucky on the night they were filming.
Yeah, so, I think for the well-adjusted, suicidality isn’t always easy to recognize. But Faith genuinely wants to die here. “Suicide by Cop” is the term of art, and it’s something Angel recognizes - he attempted it himself in Buffy episode 1x7.
That scene rips me up inside. Baring her pain and self hatred so openly. It’s like a continuation of when she was pounding her own face calling her self a murderer.
And knowing Angel tried the same thing shortly after the curse. Yelling “I’m a monster,” trying to get them to kill him. Seems like he knew almost from the beginning what she wanted and he wasn’t going to kill her, hoping he could reach her.
So powerful.
@@zemoxian Her pounding her own face and calling herself a murderer was such a powerful scene, and this is DEFINITELY a continuation of that. She really really hates herself.
What about attempted suicide by sunlight? lol Angel did that in "Amends"
And on the Christmas episode in season 3.
"Five by Five" is one of the best episodes of Angel they ever did
Passion of the Nerd describes this third lawyer as Evil Sheldon and I've never been able to unsee it 😁
I believe the term he specifically uses is "Evil Bazinga!"
@@Philbert-s2c Yes! Even better 😁
@@jaycievictory8461 oh don't ruin it by bringing up that terrible show (TBBG)
@@Nexusofgeek I feel your pain. Though I'll admit to loving the first three seasons 😬 Then kind of liking the next three. Then loathing it and retroactively seeing all its problems.
...The lawyer still looks like Evil Sheldon, though 😁
@@Philbert-s2c while I like the "Passion of the nerd" and I like having discussions about the meaning of the episodes of Buffy or Angel, he over-analysis🧠 Especially in his latest reviews, which he admits that he likes the episodes but because he's now over over-analyze things, he sounds more like he's complaining because he noticed a couple of small flaws in the episodes, forgetting that there's no such thing as perfection.
But still a good channel to see👍
This episode is the poster child for why its so awesome you don't know the episode titles before watching. It was so much better that Faith took you by surprise.
Wesley: "If there's even a chance she could be reasoned with..."
Angel: "There was. Last year, I had a shot at saving her. I was pulling her back from the brink when some British guy kidnapped her and made damn sure that she'd never trust another living soul."
Cordelia: "Angel, it's not Wesley's fault that some British guy ruined your- Oh, wait."
(to Wesley) "That was you." (to Angel) "Go on."
Poor Wesley in the early years....
wesley went ahead and took a delicate situation involving a potentially dangerous person into his own hands Instead of consulting anyone who was involved? Boy, it sure is a good thing he never does anything like that again.
Always loved that Darla was both Angel's sire, and also the driving force behind his curse.
She made Angelus on purpose and Angel by accident.
I love how, in hindsight, Faith's actions in the episode really do foreshadow the ending. Faith has never been subtle, but she's usually not "mug a guy and then spend several days living in his flat, start a mass brawl for literally no reason beyond 'she felt like it' and shoot a guy with a crossbow in public" levels of blatant. Remember, she's a wanted felon, yet she could not possibly be drawing more attention to herself. That makes so much more sense when you realize that she wanted to die - I'm sure she wouldn't have cared if she'd died in a police shootout instead of being killed by Angel.
Also, there's no way she could possibly have known that Angel would only fire one round before tossing the gun back. Even if he'd only hit her in the leg, a shot to the leg can still kill a person if they're unlucky. She was playing Russian Roulette in that scene...
As to why Darla went looking for that girl: back in S1 of Buffy, when we first learn about the curse, Angel tells Buffy that the Romani girl he feeds from is 16 and a favourite of her clan. We know from Drusilla that Angelus loves to corrupt so her youth and innocence would have attracted him, but more than this, I think he would be drawn to how beloved she is.
Think of Passion and Jenny's death. Angelus will always go for the pain. Darla knew this about him. She revelled in his capability to inflict pain. Encouraged him in it. Which is one of the reasons why she is so repulsed to discover he has a soul - a conscience. It's a kind of shadow version of "this is not the man I fell in love with" disillusionment.
Jenny's Uncle Enyos also said the girl Angelus killed was the most beloved daughter of the clan when they were talking.
.
@@TheNoybusiness so all the adults in the clan are Thanos.
The earlier episodes have their worth, but this one, for me, is when Angel really becomes the show I love. Well, this one and the next one, but it starts in this one. The real core of what this show is about finally takes form here. Angel's feelings of self-loathing shortly after being ensouled juxtaposed with Faith, who has just had a pretty rough wake up call of sorts and is spiraling herself. Everything comes together in this wild chemical reaction of emotions and combat. They can't all be this good, of course, but I feel like this one really pushes the show forward and develops its identity. Definitely a chef's kiss of an episode for me.
This wasn't a cry for attention, this was attempted suicide. Her behaviour from the get-go was self-destructive.
I think the whole point of Faith's behavior in this episode was to find someone to kill her. Her over-the-top behavior, how she kept trying to egg Angel on. She just wanted to die, maybe because she felt she'd gone too far to come back, or because she was scared to accept the consequences of her actions, guilt, shame, etc.
"Angel fights a lawfirm"
oh honey
I love this episode but my favorite bit of trivia is that they wanted the final scene in the rain the budget wouldn't allow for it and than the day they were going to film it a massive storm rolled in that lasted a few days, some of Superstar was filmed during the same storm.
Love the performance from Eliza Dushku in this episode.
Also love your videos, you’re amazing!
This mini-arc that crosses over both series is one of my favorite Buffyverse things ever.
This episode is amazing. It's sooo important for Faith's, Angel's and Wesley's arcs. Just perfect.
What stands out for me in this episode is how perfectly the flashbacks dovetail with the main story: the crushing guilt Angel felt when he first got his soul back is how he understands what Faith is feeling, and so is able to see past her act and realize she’s actually attempting suicide-by-Angel. And then he follows up that realization by refusing to do it: that would be the easy way out for him as well as her, but he won’t let her escape her own journey down the hard road he traveled.
I love your analyses of shots. I always see something I never thought of before. I think you're right about Faith's size in the shot. It shows how Faith is a genuine, scary threat. Powers of a superhero but turned villain. These big bad powerful lawyers are tiny in her presence. It also shows how volatile she is. How unstable. She's not under anyone's control, least of all her own.
Back in '02 I was taking a class at the Technology Center of DuPage for film, mostly editing and camera work. We had a guest who worked on this episode of Angel and he told us a story about this scene: When they were filming the last scene, they had to pay people in the apartments above to turn their lights off, because it was messing with the shot. There was one guy who refused until he got David and Eliza's autograph, so the tech forged their signatures (didn't want to bring them into this) and gave it to the guy to appease him.
I really wish I could remember the name of the guy who talked to us. I have Asperger's so eye contact wasn't a thing for me back then, don't remember his face at all. He gave us all kinds of tips and tricks for camera work.
I don't think you can turn from murderer to back to good that quickly. But her attempts to get Angel to kill her could be seen as part of that revelation she had when body swapped with Buffy. She's been reminded of the capacity for good and evil - as opposed to her previous want, take, have philosophy - and can now see she's clearly on the wrong side of that line. So she's filled with disgust and self loathing and, as you say, thinks she has nothing good to offer, isn't capable of doing good, so suicide by cop (Angel) seems the only option left to her.
I think your analysis of the Wolfram & Heart scene is pretty spot on. I would add that through almost the entire scene Faith's face is either obscured or in shadow, while the three lawyers faces are always visible and well lit, adding to her power in that situation.
I think Faith's been lost since the body swap and drowning in self-loathing. She didn't particularly care one way or the other about the Wolfram & Hart job until they said Angel and Faith saw a chance to finally end it all.
Wes dropping the knife is my favourite moment in the entire series.
That ending scene sticked with me. Its so freaking powerful. We had glimpses of her regreat and denial, but she was truly trying to kill herself other than face what she has done. Faith's arc is so strong
So glad you deliberately don't check titles before watching episodes. Such a giveaway here! And we'd have missed out on that *chef's kiss* reaction
this is in my top 3 angel episodes ever. that last scene in the rain is SO GOOD.
Love the quote of the day, tied up angel is technically angel with his lead on (bell collar flashback)
Oh, the bells!! Love it
The first glimpse of how insanely amazing and dark Angel can be as a series. Many, many more to come!
The vampire Russell Winters in the first episode wasn't the head of the Wolfram & Hart, he was just a wealthy client. He was in his own skyscraper when Angel pushed him to his death, not the W&H building. Lindsey McDonald was there as his lawyer. Lee Mercer was the lawyer in "Sense & Sensitivity", where the police were all put under a sensitivity spell, and I'm sure you recognize Lilah Morgan from the more recent "The Ring" when she unsuccessfully tried to cut a deal with Angel.
The scripts says that Darla 'reacts to Angelus having a soul the way a normal person would to a vampire'. It also says to keep the homoerotic subtext in the scene where Lilah picks up Faith "very sub", which is annoying.
I'm sure your analysis of the scene isn't incorrect. You're the only reactor I've followed who talks about that aspect, and I really like that!
Faith's mom's dead and her dad's in prison, both were drunkards and Faith made a reference to her mother hitting "harder than that" while fighting a vampire.
.
To be honest I always felt like the scooby gang didn't treat Faith that great when they first met her. They weren't mean, but they definitely weren't welcoming, especially Buffy. A lot could have been different if she was kinder to Faith.
the transitions between scenes are a lot like the visions that doyle--and now cordelia--have. It's like the viewer is being subjected to the Powers the Be the same as Angel is.
OH MY GOD. never thought of that.. but that might make the jumpscare transitions actually pretty interesting haha. i really like that
They're also very reminiscent of the TropeMaking VampireCop show _Forever Knight,_ which used the same kind of transitions.
Love this perspective.
You have seen that lawyer before, in the first episode when Angel push the vampire out of the window Lindsay was the lawyer that was in the room with him. This was always one of my favorite episodes because I love faith and also because it introduced Lila. She's also one of my favorite characters.
"5 by 5" is slang for everything is fine. Which is a juxtaposition for faith where everything is not fine. It's also a line from the Alien movie said by the pilot of the drop ahip that brings Ripley down to the alien planet where all the bad stuff happens. Faith saying this line is not only an homage to the movie; but also a forshadow that something bad is about to happen.
I looooove this episode. Buffy is all "I'm growing up and its hard" and show Faith in relation to that. Angel is all "I have regrets and its hard" and shows Faith in relation to that. She just feels richer in that context.
Yep. The absolute standout gem in season 1. Faiths spiral and her mask of the badass b*tch who doesn't care finally comes off, Wesley FINALLY becomes Wes after a good torture session, we see what precipitated Angels whole gypsy curse and the immediate aftermath, and more Wolfram and Hart stuff.
God I love this episode. Eliza Dushku played Faith's breakdown so damn well.
Also Alley, don't censor yourself for online trolls who are constantly offended. Gypsies are nowhere near a derogatory term.
One of the great things about The Buffyverse is the reintroduction of past characters such as Darla, Faith etc. As we are aware of the curse on Angel, and we get to see Darla ( who of course was the first person to speak and be featured on S1 E1 of BTVS ) who was of course Angel's sire. We see again Faith who with a soul, is at this point as evil as they come, but is clearly having a mental breakdown and needs help. This is one of the best episodes of the whole show, and also important in Wesley's character arc making him of the greatest characters in The Buffyverse. This is one of the episodes which illustrates how Angel as a show is easily a match for BTVS, and is very much different in many ways. A stunning ending in the alleyway in the rain which leads on to another blockbuster of an episode to follow. We can see you are really now loving this show. I cannot understand how many BTVS fans never watched Angel.
Faith is the number one reason I recommend that people watch both shows. Angel stands well enough on its own, but the context of the characters' pasts, especially in Buffy S3, gives that much more weight to it. And Buffy stands well enough on its own, crossovers notwithstanding, but Cordelia, Wesley, Angel, and Faith all move on and grow in such interesting ways that only watching BtVS leaves so much character development unfulfilled.
@@lurker1316 Spoilers
I don't think those 4 characters would have thrived as well if they had stayed on BTVS. There really didn't seem to be enough room on BTVS for everyone to have the character development that they needed imo. Even some of the other characters that stayed on BTVS for me didn't seem to get enough attention and development that I would have liked to have seen.
Omg I am SO excited for this reaction, I’m so glad you didn’t get spoiled about Faith!
PS As an aspiring lawyer and a huge buffy/angel fan, I love all of your musings about wolfram and hart. Lilah is my queen, she’s such a vibe 👑
Lindsey Mc Donald is there from the beginning. He is in the first epsiode of Angel, is in the room when Angel throws that vampire through the window.
Also, you misinterpreted it a little bit, at the end of Faith last episode in Buffy she didn't have any sort of cartharsis. She is still on her evil path.
And at the end of this episode she definitely wants Angel to kill her, she's trying 'suicide by cop'.
The Faith and Lawyers scene, the way you talk about it, reminds me of art terms like "foreground and background". And the Artist does some of his storytelling in who he chooses to put in the foreground. Thanks for that. She does dominate that room.
Then pointing out Faith in the sunlight, Angel in the shadows, together with your later thoughts on (the lady named) Faith--it got me thinking. In the previous two episodes, Faith really had a chance to see what it was like to walk the high path, in the Light. She had been living in Buffy's Shadow for awhile--"nothing she did was good enough". But then she sees the other side of it. And doesn't want to let go. But Buffy takes it back, the (main) Slayer Role. And Faith finds herself STUCK in her own body--trapped. And lost, with no new Mayor-type figure to guide her.
Then, back to the scene in Angel's office, by being the one who can stand in the sunlight, she's rubbing his nose in the misery of being stuck in the shadows--an indirect commentary on herself. The power dynamic should favor her--she's the slayer--but her heart's not in it. (Her soul isn't in it.)
I love this episode. Thanks again for giving me an excuse to revisit it.
I love these four Faith-centric episodes. They really do a lot for her character. It’s so interesting how on Buffy she looked fine (physically) but here on Angel she looks ill.
Aaahhhhh I LOVE this one!!!
Get back to finishing Angel liam lol
@@ShieldVids 🤦🏽♂️
@@zemoxian it is a joke
@@ShieldVids and sorry but it's not funny.
@@ShieldVids Very not funny. Especially when he's recently been sharing all the crappy comments he's been getting (still, despite having to address it before).
Think before you type.
"I'm bad, I'm bad! Kill me!" get's to me every time.
Surprised there wasn’t more on what happened to Wesley. To me this was the first time his character/principals were really challenged and he showed a darker side to him. Still loved the reaction though.
This episode finally lets you in on Faith's psyche. She gets real, and when you rewatch all the previous Faith episodes understanding that she actually HATES herself for killing the innocent bystander and wants to die, it paints everything so differently. She's trying to suppress her grief under bravado. She's acting out in the way the she sees herself as, as the villian. So she goes for the one person who ALMOST got through to her way back when she was chained up, Angel. She sees him as a kindred spirit, cursed with evil actions in their past that they have to learn to live with and don't know if they can ever make up for.
Faith didn't just rob the guy, she also killed him😱 Faith was staying at the guy's place but Angel was able to walk(smash) through the door, uninvited. Nice little detail there👍
He was in Hospital; it's mentioned at one point. Always assumed it wasn't really his place, but yeah; could be he'd died by that point in the story. kerk
@@rayharley597 that's kind of the point. Angel as a vampire cannot go into a place of residence without being invited and as you can see, the place Faith is staying at, has furniture. Faith beat the shit out of the guy, took his jacket, his money & keys and since we never see her in a car, it's a pretty good assumption.
If you are saying the guy didn't die right away but later died in a hospital bed, it doesn't really matter. The moment he died, is the moment Angel was allowed to come into the apartment that Faith was illegally in😯
When Alley is finished watching Buffy and Angel in 74 years....i can feel a Ted Talk coming with the viewpoint of how these 2 shows have changed her life
...and on that day, the "Angel" series starting firing on all them damn cylinders...
I don't know about you but I definitely want to see Angel punch a law firm in the face.
Five by Five is genuinely one of my favorite buffy verse episodes. I love that scene in the alleyway between Faith and Angel. Just amazing and so emotional. Faith's attempt through the whole episode of 'suicide by cop' is made really clear there. It's just so heart wrenching.
Another Pinnacle ANGEL episode! I absolutely love me some Faith.
Angels theme song is such a vibe its my ringtone
This is on my top five list of Angel for the entire series. A real contender for best Angel episode, in my opinion. And definitely one of the best fight scenes in the Buffyverse too.
One of the highlights of the season.
it was about twenty years before i learned what "Five by Five" meant.
I rewatched it before the reaction to see if it was as good as I remembered, yes, it still holds up. Fantastic episode
One of the Best Angel eps ever. Def the best of the first season
Stereotypically, as a guy I'm not supposed to cry at movies or TV shows. I cherish the ones that get me so invested that a strong character moment can take me there. This is one of them, and why Faith is one of my three fave characters. I mean...she was highly entertaining form the start, but I'm a sucker for a heartfelt redemption arc.
Been so eager for you to get to this one!!
I’ve been waiting for you to react to this episode forever! It’s one of my favorite episodes in the entire series!
We have learned a lot more about Wolfram and Hart, including a number of their employees some of whom have appeared before.
Tim Minear (at this point de facto number 2 of the day-to-day series after Greenwalt) said it actually rained during the final scene.
Hey. When Angel turned to catch the arrow, said arrow was just in front of his heart... BUT
That means when he had his back turned the arrow was not at all gonna hit his heart.
So that means Faith missed on purpose.
❤ love the scene analysis!! It's been so long since I watched this episode I'd forgotten how well shot that scene is
My personal favorite episode in all of Buffyverse. Alley, I think you missed the mark a bit here. Faith came to LA to go on with her self-loathing life. But once she found Angel was in town, she had only one goal. "Suicide by Cop". She first tried it by playing Russian Roulette with a loaded gun. When that didnt work, she went one step further. She could have easily killed Cordy or Wesley, she didnt. But she did just enough damage to rile up Angel and kill her. Angel saw through this really early - the flashbacks were there to show the experiences of a self-loathing Angel which enabled him to see the signs. This is why he never fights Faith, just defends himself. He doesnt kill her but waits for the moment for her to break and come to him.
The last shot of Angel holding Faith in the rain and Wesley dropping the knife is just divine - chefs kiss! Joss at his best.
P.S. - This episode was right after "This Years Girl" and "Who Are You".
It was about two months later, actually. "This Years Girl" and "Who Are You" aired on February 22 and February 29. "Five by Five" and "Sanctuary" aired on April 25 and May 2.
No one does flashbacks better than Joss Whedon. This is definitely in my top 2 all-time Angel eps. Love Faith!
Aw, too much chopped out :(
Love this episode, there's a lot going on, Eliza is incredible, and every rewatch is extremely rewarding.
This has always been in my top 5 episodes of Buffy. I have been waiting for this video since these reactions started.
GOD DAMN is Faith a well built character.
Wonderbras are great things.
not sure if Darla yelling "I'll kill you!" is a threat or just a statement of fact. not always the best impulse control, but she does know herself. i'm not even saying she wants to save him, but he does suddenly seem useless to her now, and perhaps she'd rather buy time to "fix" him and get him back.
In this episode: Alley gets super excited about flashbacks 🤣🤣💜
That ending scene is still one of my favourites of all time in the buffyverse
funfact: the end scene called for rain but it wasn't in the budget so they decided to do without & then when they were filming it, it started raining & I just am so glad about that
unpopular opinion but Lindsey & Lila can absolutely get it
The current name for the group of people is Romani
I love Angel's wtf just happened after Faith shoots the crossbow like "di- did Faith just shoot me in public with a crossbow?"
Angel: shoot me with an arrow once shame on me, shoot me twi- nope not this time
I give this episode a 5x5/10
The part where Faith tells Wesley not to crap out because "You'll be dead, and I'll be...bored." Crazy how well she plays unhinged.
Another cool thing about the lawyer scene is when Faith bashes his head in the other 2 don't even flinch.
9 days later: Is there anybody... out there?
I know for you some of the early episodes have been hit or miss but I feel this is the episode where I think Angel finds its footing.
I am not sure how many times I have watched buffyverse through. And I am sure I will never get tired of it. Buffy and Angel are amazing shows with so many amazing characters!
22:15 Because Faith is full well capable of going Anakin Skywalker on the entire lawfirm.
That feeling when you realize the woman you invited in is capable of killing everyone in the room within seconds, and crazy enough to do it for no particular reason.
It's not an ENTIRELY unfamiliar feeling at Wolfram and Hart, but certainly a disturbing one.
11:45 Yeah going after Angel was Faith trying to off herself.
Lol it’s funny how you ask if the law firm is gonna come up again and then this is literally the episode where they hire Faith to take Angel out 😂. Good old Wolfram and Hart
One of my fav episodes! Great reaction!🥳
I remember watching this when it aired, and a feeling that had been developing throughout the season crystalized.... That feeling that, "Whoah. I'm gonna love this show more than Buffy. How is that possible?"
Oh man, I love this episode so much; I've been waiting for you to get to it.
Great reaction. Couple of things
The building they were in when Faith shot at Angel probably has a parking garage. His car has tinted windows, he gets around like that alot.
When Faith saw Buffy in her body (and proceeded to try beating her own face in) and then got switched back to that body that is when she reverted back. It was only ever being in Buffy's body that gave her the feeling of wanting to do right.
I think suicide is what Faith was hoping for with Buffy until she received the package from The Mayor and viewed that as her 2nd chance. Just before Buffy switched their bodies back all she saw was her own "disgusting" body, so when Buffy switched them again Faith ran. I don't think she ever considered suicide by Buffy. But suicide by Angel would be no problem as the last time they really spoke he told her about his issues with killing people to identify with what she was going through. Not considering Buffy to do the job shows that deep down she doesn't want Buffy to be as "disgusting" as she views herself. Luckily, Angel realized what was going on in Faith's head and can now potentially start helping her the way she always needed since before she even arrived in Sunnydale.
5:54-5:57 I always wondered why Billy's girlfriend wasn't more upset with Billy. At least before Faith starts the brawl.
Eliza's acting in the episode is great, but the last scene after she and Angel fall through the window until the episode's end is, I think, her best.
I always found it a little ironic that Faith never says "Five by Five" and yet it is still the perfect title for the episode as it means she is "fine" and she is anything but fine. Thus showing, in my opinion, that any time she says it, she has been anything but fine.
That's a really interesting notion I hadn't thought of - that Faith doesn't want Buffy to become like her. To start with, she actively tries to make Buffy like her - to get her on board with her want, take, have philosophy - all the way up to their conversation when Buffy tries to drain her. She was eaten up with jealousy towards Buffy, and yet in some way didn't want to bring her down to "her" level 👌
@@jaycievictory8461 I just always assumed it was posturing and failed attempts to be friends. Then the Deputy Mayor happened and it becomes denial. Not just about what she did to Alan, but also about what she wants from Buffy aka whether she really wants Buffy to be like her or not.
This and the rest of the season are the times when I wish Alley would post 2 videos a week lol The rest of this season and Buffy season 4 are TOP NOTCH!! And I need these reactions YESTERDAY!!! 😩😩😩😩😩
Alright, this is where the fun begins!!
Anyone else just been waiting for this episode?
Also, Alley, if you enjoyed this episode I can't wait for your reaction to the next one 😁
I dont think Faith wanted atention. At the end, i belive that she just want it over, she finally started to understend and feel all the bad that she had done and thats why she cry in Angel arms. I saw it as Faith baisicly traing to commit suicide via Angel, and that was why the entire episode she keeps saying to him "You ara not in the game" meaning that she wants him to kill her, thats why also she went after Cordy and Wes, to push Angel to just forget about his journey of redemption, of not be a killer anymore, and just end her.
You can never be to Obsessed with a scene. I'm here for exactly those insights
Ally: Is Faith going to be in the inside.
Me laughing madly :oh she's GONNA be in the inside!!!
The actors in spanish they all are awesome aswell,the voices jeeesus.
I guess in Buffy's body, it was easier for Faith to leave her past behind and try to do good. She might have felt like having a clean slate and getting a second chance at life. Back in her own body, however, she got faced with all of her sins. She defines herself by all of her mistakes and doesn't see a way to be a good person going forward. Here, she basically has to do the harder thing of making the same choice while embracing everything she is and has done.
i’ve never clicked faster in my life jdhdbf
YES! I can't wait to watch this when I get home! 🤩🤩🤩
Faith also goes to Angel because Angel knows what it’s like to come back from being bad.
Funny how editing Alley is always crying whereas reacting Alley is always laughing.
I really liked your explanation of 'learned helplessness' in a previous reaction assessing Faith's character and I feel like this episode is the peak moment of devastating outlook on display. It honestly feels really similar to character in Catra in She-Ra and the Princesses of Power in some ways.
Great works as usual.