Are multiversal stories a problem?

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  • Опубліковано 25 тра 2023
  • We have been hearing people say that there is a problem with multiversal stories.

КОМЕНТАРІ • 280

  • @johangade2832
    @johangade2832 9 місяців тому +316

    Often times the concept of multiverse is not used for storytelling purposes but to hook an audience with nostalgia.

  • @SpartanBrix
    @SpartanBrix 9 місяців тому +704

    The problem isn’t too many multiverse stories- it’s too many bad multiverse stories, and the Spider-Verse movies (especially Across) prove it.

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +23

      I feel the Spiderverse movies do a disservice to the character of Miles by focusing so much on these other versions and saving the Multiverse. They could've used the first movie to establish Miles and then the second movie to show him being the Spiderman of his universe. A simple story that builds up his world. If it worked well enough, they could've even added these elements to the comics. But it seems like they don't trust him to carry his own movie, so they throw in other versions of Spiderman.

    • @davidpalillero29
      @davidpalillero29 9 місяців тому +114

      @@DavidMartinez-ce3lp you couldn’t be so wrong about it, the into the spiderverse is a miles movies, this new trilogy is showing miles being his character

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +13

      @@davidpalillero29 It's not selling you Miles. It's a movie selling you as many easter eggs and cameos as possible. This movie didn't build him a world in his own universe. It's just another save the multiverse story. It's Spiderverse again, but more Spidermen.

    • @Blazer-bn9ev
      @Blazer-bn9ev 9 місяців тому +83

      ​​​@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp hm. Something tells me you definitely haven't watched the Spiderverse movies. If you would have, then you'd know that it's always, always been about Miles. In fact sometimes you might even feel it's too much about Miles. The movies is extremely focused on his personal growth and his way of being Spider-Man.

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +9

      @@Blazer-bn9ev they interrupted Miles story to save the multiverse again and cram in as many easter eggs and cameos. They didn't sell you on Miles, they sold you on the other Spider-men.

  • @bashengatheblackmanta7003
    @bashengatheblackmanta7003 10 місяців тому +320

    I agree the multiverse concept the mcu use is complicated and they contradict themselves.
    The loki is what really makes it complicated because it merge multiverse with timetravel.

    • @nobblkpraetorian5623
      @nobblkpraetorian5623 9 місяців тому +37

      They already merged multiverse with time travel in Avengers Endgame.

    • @ryftedmage1404
      @ryftedmage1404 9 місяців тому +4

      It’s also how it works in the comics too

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +17

      @@nobblkpraetorian5623 and that's one of the reasons I dislike Endgame. There was no need for time travel it just made things more complicated and confusing. And Cap's ending still makes no sense.

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 9 місяців тому

      @@DavidMartinez-ce3lp didn't

  • @hyzmarca2737
    @hyzmarca2737 9 місяців тому +35

    Multiverse stories still have plenty of stakes. There might be infinite universes, but we don't care about infinite universes, we care about the one we're following.

    • @Subject_Keter
      @Subject_Keter 9 місяців тому +2

      People get lost for the Magic Forest in the Forest, even if the other worlds dont "Exist" longer then 5 seconds it just breaks their brains.

    • @nekowatt5945
      @nekowatt5945 9 місяців тому +12

      Yeah that's the main thing I've been telling anyone who tries to say that there are no stakes.
      The stakes are that our very own mainline heroes could die/lose. Saying anything lost can be "revived or fixed" by bringing in an alternate version is very shortsighted. Sure it may be that Iron Man is back but that's not OUR Iron Man, he's had different experiences and other quirks that aren't like ours.

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 9 місяців тому +3

      @@nekowatt5945 exactly.

    • @AndrewDukes
      @AndrewDukes 9 місяців тому +3

      @@nekowatt5945YES EXACTLY

  • @knackeredalien
    @knackeredalien 9 місяців тому +8

    The best line - Some How Gamora Returned 🤣❤🔥

  • @MonsterKidCory
    @MonsterKidCory 9 місяців тому +113

    It all just comes down to writing... Multiverse stories work when the writing is good, they don't when the writing is bad. If we care about the characters and what is happening to them, then it works. If we don't care and they're just throwing mindless spectacle at us, it doesn't. I often use the example of a cliffhanger from Doctor Who: the cliffhanger where 10 was shot and started to regenerate was a better cliffhanger than the one where the 11th Doctor, the Tardis, and the universe get blown up. Sure the latter has bigger spectacle, but we know that the show can't go on without the Doctor, Tardis, or universe itself. The only way out is to unblow them up. If there's only one possible and predictable out, there's no stakes. But the Doctor regenerating? That is actual stakes. The character we know and love is actually dying and for all we know isn't coming back. There's no way out of it. Of course the second part screwed it up, but nevertheless... Same thing in Star Trek. We knew the Borg weren't going to win, but we didn't know if Picard was going to survive being assimilated. If a multiverse story actually affects the characters in a meaningful way, then you can do something good with it. If it's just spectacle, just watching planets crash into each other, then it's just bad writing period.

    • @alexlief2072
      @alexlief2072 9 місяців тому +2

      I think he had some good points to be made. However having the Council of Reeds, the film would have same criticism along with "a lack of imagination, because it's the same person just from different universes". Dr Strange 2 had it's own issues away from the story. Everyone seems to forget that the story writer has so much that person can put on paper otherwise it'll be confusing. The person who done this as much as he had good points but I don't think he realises the story is and the writer are key to the success like Spider-Man no way home. I personally think that Marvel is a part of these current issues too, they are meant to be interfering and don't give the writer as much time as possible so the quality was a party to these issues too. I guess that's why Marvel and Disney is now talking about quality Vs quantity problems.

  • @jeremikwiecien340
    @jeremikwiecien340 10 місяців тому +48

    Great video! Nice to see someone analyse why certain multiverses work and others don't

  • @kitsunesden8085
    @kitsunesden8085 8 місяців тому +3

    I really LOVE the multiverse concept, I loved it before it was cool and more recently overexploited, yet I need to properly use it so it doesn't end in *chaos...*

  • @AlexDRohmat
    @AlexDRohmat 9 місяців тому +2

    Best intro to a video essay ever

  • @pablogradiente
    @pablogradiente 8 місяців тому +12

    A good example of a good multiversal story is Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths. It basically consists in the Justice League trying to defeat their evil counterpart in another Earth. The stakes are high because it is not related to anything (solo movie) and the Justice League needs to defeat more powerful versions of themselves while Owlman (Batman's counterpart) tries to erase the whole multiverse. Also, Owlman explains the multiverse pretty well. (It also includes Batman taking his moral code to its limits)

  • @bulatao195
    @bulatao195 6 місяців тому +1

    I'm never tired of crossovers.
    Keep 'em cooking!

  • @Mel-yl8fv
    @Mel-yl8fv 9 місяців тому +6

    i've seen a multiverse story that had alternatives but the decisions actually mattered. it managed to stay grounded when the concept and characters were so spectatcular because it told a personal story of one person.

  • @LiamTolentino
    @LiamTolentino 8 місяців тому +4

    My problem with multiverse stories is when they can't seem to decide on what rules to follow. Like you said in the video, every story handles the multiverse in vastly different ways, but I feel like the mcu keeps changing the rules in every instance that the multiverse is brought up, and it makes it so hard to care at all because it means they can just change the rules whenever they want and it won't matter. It's like when you're playing a game in the playground and your friend just keeps changing the rules in his favor making the game less fun. The multiverse as a concept works best if you set the rules and stick to those rules the entire time. If you change the rules every time, it just becomes confusing and annoying to keep up with. Imagine if you were taught the rules to basketball but then every time you played a game of basketball, you are told the rules are different but it's still the same sport. That would become frustrating so quickly.

  • @bashengatheblackmanta7003
    @bashengatheblackmanta7003 10 місяців тому +60

    Here's the timeline post endgame :
    - Black widow (2016)
    - Wandavision (oct -nov2023)
    - Shang-chi (late march-early April 2024)
    - She hulk episode 1-4(april2024)
    - Falcon & ws(late April - early may 2024)
    - The eternals (may 2024)
    - Spiderman far from home (June-July 2024)
    - venom 3 post credit (between act 1&2 of nwh)
    - Spiderman no way home (July - oct 2024)
    - DR strange (nov 2024)
    - Spiderman NWH(few days before hawkeye)
    - Hawkeye (dec 19-26th 2024)
    - Moonknigt (early 2025)
    - Miss marvel (may 2025)
    - She hulk ep4-8(june 2025)
    - Thor l&t(summer 2025)
    - antman & wasp quantumania (2025)
    - Black panther wf( aug-oct 2025)
    - Secret invasion (2025)
    - Werewolf by night (nov 2025)
    - GOTG holiday (dec 25th 2025)
    - GOTG vol 3 (early 2026)
    - Loki started in the middle of endgame but the event take place outside of time
    - What if is created at the end of the loki show

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +4

      And pretty much all of it sucked

    • @mohabalserafe3795
      @mohabalserafe3795 9 місяців тому +5

      ​@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp nope not all of them

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +7

      @@mohabalserafe3795 even the ones that weren't the worst, were still not as good as they could have been

    • @jplayz4260
      @jplayz4260 8 місяців тому +1

      Where Quantamania

    • @bashengatheblackmanta7003
      @bashengatheblackmanta7003 8 місяців тому

      @@jplayz4260 didn't notice it wasn't there, I updated it.
      Its summer 2025(10 years after the first movie)

  • @jagnestormskull3178
    @jagnestormskull3178 9 місяців тому +51

    The Flash's multiverse is a DC-type Multiverse, which is basically a "bubble" of 52 Earths. The Arrowverse is one of these "bubble multiverses." This seems to make radically different versions of different characters (like the different versions of Wells) encouraged, and I think that's part of the reason that the DC-type Multiverse works so well.

    • @bendu8282
      @bendu8282 9 місяців тому +6

      Yeah DC's Multiverse style is infinite multiverses sets of universes on an endless Omniversal scale, so there aren't just infinite universes but infinite multiverses within an infinite Omniverse, whereas Marvel doesn’t have a system their multiverse/Omniverse is just infinite universes in a multiverse/omniverse so both have infinite realities within the omniverse but DC has a hierarchy & chaos balancing each other and marvel's just pure chaos.

    • @jagnestormskull3178
      @jagnestormskull3178 9 місяців тому +4

      @@bendu8282 Which means that most alternate versions of each other in Marvel should just be fairly adjacent (like the scene in Rick and Morty with the three Ricks who are all reporters and they all have the same clothes/hair style with a slightly different scar, or in the Vat of Acid episode when one alternate Rick switches places with Rick C137 without Morty even noticing) rather than any one version being drastically different (Peter Parker vs Spider-Gwen vs Spider-Man Noir vs Spider-Ham, for example).
      I didn't go into the more esoteric details of the DC-type multiverse in my top level post, like how the Speed Force and God/the Presence/the Source both penetrate the entire multiverse, and how the multiverse is a "bubble" because it's enclosed by a collection of realms (Heaven, Hell, Olympus, Hades, Rock of Eternity, New Genesis, Apokolips, etc) collectively known as the Sphere of the Gods, but I didn't feel like I needed to do that to make my point.

    • @hunter7643
      @hunter7643 8 місяців тому

      @@jagnestormskull3178 also idk if its canon or not but idrc, but with all the marvel and dc crossovers, and the string of crossovers that can get you from dc to marvel otherwise, I would like to think that the MCU and Marvel's multiverse is just one massive bubble in the "DC" Omniverse.

    • @jagnestormskull3178
      @jagnestormskull3178 8 місяців тому

      @@hunter7643 I think the Amalgam Earth is its own thing, and yeah, DC heroes do sometimes cross over to Marvel and vice versa (not so much anymore now that they've been bought by parent companies that hate each other; Kevin Feighe and James Gunn say that they're both open to a crossover but that corporate is blueballing it, even though it would make so much money that it would cast a shadow on money itself), but if you go that route, you've also got to take the more recent "Star Trek Green Lantern" crossover into account, and say that the Star Trek Multiverse is part of the DC Omniverse.
      Fun fact - occasionally the _Spider-Verse_ movies make jokes about "Earth-19999," which is the actual production title of the MCU Earth.

    • @naegling
      @naegling 8 місяців тому

      I think DC multiverse is a mess. In the past they were infinite just like marvel, then they destroy all of them except fot three that got merged, then superboy prime punch reality and created 52 universes, but beacause 52 were not enough, flashpoint happens then theres new 52 that are kind of the same previous 52 because some old comics are still in cannon but not really because they have their own stories, chronollogy and version of the characters and they don't really tell what comics are still in cannon and which ones don't , also they bringed them back them later, also the dark universe became a thing because they wanted to make bad versions of batman. Now i just losed track of it.
      So yeah, theres is 52 in bubbles but in practice there are infinite because at any moment they just do whatever with them, injustice wasn't one of the original 52 universes because when they created the idea of 52 there were no injustice games, i believe that the main universe Jon Kent is now in the injustice universe having adventures or something, so i guess that universe just got somehow in the bubble, which universe did it replace? i don't know

  • @animeloverhaven
    @animeloverhaven 8 місяців тому +1

    When it’s done well it’s a very interesting concept. Everything everywhere all at once and Across the spiderverse are just 2 recent instances where it was used amazingly

  • @eternallylearning2811
    @eternallylearning2811 8 місяців тому +3

    Sucks to be that one guy they got pruned cause he was late for work

  • @azizuladnan2957
    @azizuladnan2957 9 місяців тому +62

    The funny thing is. I can say that I travel to another universe, where everything is the same but a little bit different.
    But I can also say, I travel to an alternate dimension, where instead of us 3D, I travel to a 2D dimensions where my depth is non existense.
    Multiverse is now become the mish mash of both of this, and I'm not gonna lie... I am really fond of these concept, as long as it has good story telling, and good picture/animation :D

    • @OzzyTheGiant
      @OzzyTheGiant 9 місяців тому +5

      Exactly. The possibilities are endless!

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 9 місяців тому +5

      there's two types of multiverse, one where something went differently and one where the big bang happened differently. Those universes are where there are different types of physics and such, and the other is like time travel/alternate universes

  • @JohnPeacekeeper
    @JohnPeacekeeper 9 місяців тому +36

    What adds investment in Multiverse stories is PERSONAL stakes. Take Rick & Morty for example.
    At the start, Rick has little to no attachment to the reality he's in. But that gradually changes as he does eventually get attached to his family, which we then find out isn't even his original family since his Beth never got to grow up. Then we find out that every single person in the family we follow is from different universes. At that point, because all of them are uniquely special, including Jerry (who has developed beyond any other Jerry as a person), become special to Rick. The stakes come from that these are the only versions of themselves that have become this developed in the whole multiverse and Rick can't afford to lose them anymore.😊

    • @me-myself-i787
      @me-myself-i787 9 місяців тому +5

      Minor correction: While Rick C-137, Morty Prime and Jerry are all from different universes, Beth and Summer are from the same universe as each other (the universe which Rick and Morty moved to after the events of Rick Potion #9).
      Side-note: I call him Morty Prime because Rick C-137 refers to his grandfather as Rick Prime. That doesn't necessarily mean that their universe is the original universe, or that there even is an original universe. Although it is implied that Rick Prime was the first to discover interdimensional travel.
      Another side-note: I didn't really like how the Season 5 finale retconned the events of the Season 3 opening.
      "That's not the secret to portal gun technology. That's actually a virus giving me full control over the brainalyser."
      "That's impossible. You can't alter the details of a memory."
      "No, but you can alter the details of a totally fabricated origin story."
      The only reason Rick was able to take control over the brainalyser was because the origin story was fake. But then, they made that the actual origin story. It makes no sense.
      But now I'm getting off-topic.

    • @Subject_Keter
      @Subject_Keter 9 місяців тому +1

      ​@@me-myself-i787For that last point, I think the part "he made up" was how fast he cracked the portal gun code.
      Considering Rick is a bastard that likes to punish himself, he went along with it till that point where he was able to slip the virus in.

  • @Nytellem
    @Nytellem 9 місяців тому +10

    Just like ANYTHING in media, you must have a throughline, a connection, a sense of relevance, a sense of purpose of WHO WHAT WHERE AND *WHY* (why being the most important) This is why Spider-Man Spiderverse and Everything Everywhere, back to the future worked in my opinion.

  • @tylervalois5257
    @tylervalois5257 10 місяців тому +11

    I usually don't comment on videos but saw you're a small channel and loved this, honestly thought you were bigger with the production quality, great video!

  • @Waterbug1591
    @Waterbug1591 9 місяців тому +6

    The problem with multiverse is that no movie ever does bring back the same character from 2 seconds ago and end up cloning an infinite number of that character because that messes up storytelling. The unit of time down to the smallest fraction never gets explored because it is inherently problematic, hence multiverse is a problem.

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 9 місяців тому +2

      Except none of those characters are _our_ character

  • @roygalazka6523
    @roygalazka6523 9 місяців тому +30

    The reason we didnt get to experience other universes in Loki is because it was more an origin story of the Marvel Multiverse within the MCU. Sylvie killing He Who Remains was what caused the sacred timeline to branch off into infinite realities and served as essentially the beginning of the Multiverse Saga.

    • @bendu8282
      @bendu8282 9 місяців тому +1

      They already introduced the multiverse in the MCU with the first Dr.Strange Movie we didn't need Slyvie to set off the multiverse in the MCU at all because it existed before the events of that show. Having the show say the whole multiverse within the MCU was destroyed by Kang was stupid. Just have The TVA manage multiple universes instead of one sacred "timeline" as they did in the comics. Also, MCU makes the mistake of getting Parallel Universes & Alternate Timelines mixed up. Infinite Universes are parallel to each other and have always existed in infinity, or can be made by what-if/Elseworld events like Crisis or Secret Wars but usually, when you alter the timeline you create an alternate timeline, not an alternate universe. You could alter the universe in some way and create an alternate universe but that's highly subjective because by the logic of the multiverse infinite universes already exist so it's more likely that they already existed and you just accessed one rather than create it yourself but with alternate timelines altering time creates branch timelines or creates a new timeline by rewriting reality but that's just a timeline, not a whole universe. Rick & Morty as much as I love that show also uses universes and timelines interchangeably which is probably why they say dimensions instead over universes most of the time as we know the 4th dimension often deals with time which isn't linearly only by our perception.

    • @AndrewDukes
      @AndrewDukes 9 місяців тому +1

      @@bendu8282You’re really not right. Yes the multiverse did exist before the Loki show but only universes that were linear with the sacred timeline. Sylvie in the Loki show killed Kang which caused branch timelines which set up the multiverse saga. So yes Sylvie created the multiverse as we know it, but the multiverse technically existed before but it was limited to being linear with the MCU

    • @bendu8282
      @bendu8282 9 місяців тому +1

      @@AndrewDukes The Multiverse wasn’t linear to being with The MCU at all. That is in fact wrong. Kang claimed he destroyed all the other universes in a multiversal war leaving behind one universe and a “sacred timeline”, then when Sylvie killed Him she essentially brought back the multiverse in The MCU which like I said was stupid. Variants like Sylvie that formed would be captured & their timelines/realities would be destroyed as The MCU TVA was made by Kang to make sure only one timeline remained. Sylvie in essence didn’t create anything. She never created the multiverse at all in the MCU. She brought it back which is dumb in itself. The multiverse was already introduced in the MCU with Dr.Strange & The Ancient One we don’t need to see it be taken away and brought back for this show. In the comics The TVA Manage the timelines of many universes so they monitored the multiverse’s continuity essentially and this MCU show should’ve stayed with that. This sacred timeline plot was stupid as hell especially considering the fact That The MCU before this show was known to exist within the original Marvel Multiverse with the comics, cartoons, movies, shows, games, books, etc, as universe-199999 and after this show they tried separating the MCU from the original Marvel Multiverse which was still co existing at the time and give the MCU it’s own multiverse which from what we know on what it is just alternate versions of The MCU alone. This is all idiotic. This sacred timeline plot essentially limited the scope of the multiverse within the MCU for films like Dr.Strange In The Multiverse of madness which also contradicts the first film by the way. It also doesn’t explain how Spider-Man No Way Home happens because Tobey & Andrew’s universes are from the original marvel multiverse which Kang claims he got rid off. If Sylvie brought that all back by killing Kang we didn’t need this plot of the MCU starting its own multiverse that’s just alternate versions of it in the first place. The multiverse shouldn’t have been destroyed in The MCU, The TVA in The MCU like in the early comics should’ve been monitoring multiple universes instead of a “sacred timeline.” Instead they should be erasing new universe they can’t control or alternate timelines they can’t control from forming since they are at an infinite rate and Sylvie is their enemy because her universe is considered a new one that can’t be contained by their system. That would’ve been a lot more engaging anyway.

    • @naegling
      @naegling 8 місяців тому

      ​@@bendu8282 I think the word kang used was "isolated ", he isolated the MCU timeline from the others, that's the explanation why we don't have multiverse shenanigans happening in the MCU before. I just watched the scene to be sure. The beast prevented other universes to cross into the MCU and the TVA prevented the main line from spontaneously branching. That's the explanation as far as i understand it.
      Also, I believe that inside of one universe there are many "planes", like the nightmare plane, the astral plane the mirror dimension , hell, the dark dimension, to give some examples. In the comics there been shown that different universes have their own version of Dormammu and the dark dimension, if the dark dimension was a different universe then all the different versions of dr strange would be fighting the same version of dormamu, which isn't the case. I believe that also in the comics, asgard was in another plane rather than floating out in space. I think that Dr Strange 1 doesn't contradict Multiverse of madness, you are just confusing "extra-dimensional planes" with "universes".

  • @e3xhernandez359
    @e3xhernandez359 8 місяців тому +1

    2:05 well it’s kinda implied that the TVA Agents are also variants so I guess the trial it’s to prune you or making you an Agent

  • @Darkwolves35
    @Darkwolves35 9 місяців тому +1

    Nice vid. And agree on some points, but the reason that they cant tell a proper multiverse series is because, In opinion, every writer wants to tell his or her story. They hardly ever wants to stick to the genuine blue print that's been laid out before them because they know if they were going to stick to it, they would have to abolish any creative idea they have mind just for the consistent of the print. Loki, is a prime example, I like Loki the series and thought it was okay, but you can tell just from looking at the Teaser they drop way back when that Loki was meant to be a dark series; the Line when he said "I'm going to burn this place" makes it feels as though the series was going to take the dark route. Just an assumption🤔

  • @hopehilton
    @hopehilton 9 місяців тому +2

    7:11 Answering the age-old question: “How Gamora?”

  • @Cobra-yo7fx
    @Cobra-yo7fx 8 місяців тому

    Nice video! You seriously have a lot of potential my friend! I wish you great amounts of happiness and success! 😃

  • @prerna_padma
    @prerna_padma 9 місяців тому +5

    Awesome video essay!!
    I think your strength is in video essays, (sorry i don't like reactions and reviews)
    But anyway hope to see more video essays from you guys!! , Subscribed!!!😁😁

  • @naegling
    @naegling 8 місяців тому +1

    the thing is, if you have a twin and he gets killed, nobody would be "it's ok we have another one". That's kind of the point with rick and morty, each time the go to another universe they abandon one, all those characters we knew in first season are dead, also in rick and morty they make a great job coming back to those universes so we get to see that nothing is really without consecuences. At the same time since everybody have infinite copies of themeselves, everybody are replaceable, i mean, as i say early, they kind of not because they are different people, but they are all so similar that you can actually fool yourself into believing that this new version of your daughter is your real daughter that you previously care about. At the end i think that the "lack of stakes" is the main conflict that rick have to face.
    One problem i have with the multiverse stuff is, the villains kind of have the same motivation, i mean, there are two variations. Multiverse of madness, scarlet witch wanted her family back by geting the family of another version of herself, the same as kingpin in into the siderverse, i think in across the spiderman, spiderman 2099 did the same thing so now he is trying to prevent others to do the same mistake, then there's the multiversal nihilistic villain who wants to destroy everything because nothing matters , that's owlman in Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths, also is the same motivation of jobu in everthing everywhere all at once, and i think is where the Spot is going to in across the spiderverse. And Spider-carnage have the same motivation in the Spider Wars arc of the 90s tv show.

  • @afroscifizianzcomix7836
    @afroscifizianzcomix7836 10 місяців тому +70

    The real problem is the extremely poor quality of TV and movies in general. If you want great stories set in a multiverse you are better off reading Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion novels. I wasn't a big fan of the Loki series but I thought the Spider-Verse movie was entertaining (and I don't even like the Miles Morales character). I haven't watched Everything Everywhere all at Once but I will make time to see it in the next few weeks.

    • @Nuclearburrit0
      @Nuclearburrit0 9 місяців тому +6

      Everything everywhere all at once is my new favorite movie period. You're in for a treat.

    • @mohabalserafe3795
      @mohabalserafe3795 9 місяців тому +1

      Why what's wrong with miles's character

    • @afroscifizianzcomix7836
      @afroscifizianzcomix7836 9 місяців тому +3

      @mohabalserafe3795 I didn't like Miles or the Ultimate Universe in general. I don't mean to mimic Eric July but Miles is just too similar in personality to Peter Parker and quite frankly not very interesting. I think Miles probably works better if Peter Parker was dead. I am a big fan of Spider-Man 2099 who had a completely different personality than Peter with more aggressive fighting techniques and a more sarcastic wit Also his comics were set 100 years after Peter Parker had died.
      I didn't like Ultimate Spider-Man and the long drawn out story that Bendis was doing. John Byrne had recently updated Spider-Man in the main 616 Universe in 1999 so I didn't see the point of Ultimate Spider-Man. I know a lot of young people loved Ultimate Spider-Man so I know I am in the minority with my thoughts. The only Miles Morales story I liked was the SPIDER-MEN mini series .
      The Ultimates is the only title I enjoyed from the Ultimate Universe but I didn't love it. The Ultimate Universe was supposed to be an updated Marvel Universe (which it was) but it was far less interesting than the original.
      I prefer when Marvel actually attempted to do" a world outside your window " with the NEW UNIVERSE or the SHADOWLINE books like DOCTOR ZERO in the late 80's.

    • @OzzyTheGiant
      @OzzyTheGiant 9 місяців тому +1

      @@afroscifizianzcomix7836 I see what you mean, I could agree to some extend, but I do like that his difference is that he has electric powers, which is something that most if not all Spider-Men don't have

    • @WolfsHaven
      @WolfsHaven 9 місяців тому

      I like this version of Miles better than the original plan, where they were going to write out Petter all together and just have Miles going forward.
      It also explains why different versions of spider man have different girlfriends, or uncle Ben lives a lot longer, or Pete's parents are alive.

  • @luigikaboyack5067
    @luigikaboyack5067 8 місяців тому

    This guy has a amazing voice

  • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
    @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +8

    I like the way the Justice League show did the Justice Lords episodes. It wasn't some Multiverse collapsing story. They treated the events of the crossover as if it was more of a time loop. That was bound to happen. Made it much more interesting because you could see the signs. It added layers. They didn't need so many versions, just one that showed what the Justice League could become.

  • @LiamTolentino
    @LiamTolentino 8 місяців тому

    I'd like to bring up an interesting and unexpected example of how the multiverse is used, and that's in the episode of the show Community "Remedial Chaos Theory." It's never explicitly said whether or not the alternate timelines are real or if it's just Abed thinking through different scenarios, but it is an interesting example of how you can use the concept of the multiverse itself as a way to teach a lesson, similarly to how it was done in Everything Everywhere All At Once. For those who haven't seen Community, the episode is basically about a group of friends getting together, and one of them rolls a die to decide who will get the pizza from downstairs. The episode shows all 6 outcomes for each number that the die could have rolled, each one having vastly different events playing out, until the 7th "true" timeline where one of the characters catches the die and explains how our lives are already dominated by chaos and randomness and that we should stick together through this sea of randomness through the few things in life that are certain and predictable.
    I also love that this is an example of how the multiverse can be used without having to apply sci-fi concepts, but rather using the what-if scenarios to teach a lesson about the chaotic nature of life, and I'd love to see this concept done more in other multiverse stories :)

  • @1eyeddevil929
    @1eyeddevil929 9 місяців тому +1

    Ultraman has a Multiverse, too. But its done in a way when One universe is its own

  • @Thetravelingmonke
    @Thetravelingmonke 9 місяців тому +1

    Multiverse stories can be good like into the spiderverse is a fire movie just phenomenal like the sound tracks, to art, to character development it all goes hard, but than some are pretty shite when it comes ti the multiverse like loki or current mcu but “everything everywhere all at once” was a bit odd but pretty entertaining and a good multiversal universe

  • @cold_drake1338
    @cold_drake1338 9 місяців тому +4

    “And then he would become President Loki” THATS EXACTLY WHAT THE TRAILER MADE ME THINK WOULD HAPPEN

  • @Lonelyweirdo96
    @Lonelyweirdo96 8 місяців тому

    I’d still be in love with the concept of the multiverse if everyone wasn’t constantly using it as a literary crutch allowing them to have whatever they want happen without actually having to put in the effort writing something that makes sense.

  • @firestarter6488
    @firestarter6488 8 місяців тому +1

    A multiverse only functions well in a story that already has a strong foundation in it's "primary" story/lore of the "prime" universe.
    Something these movies mostly all lack sadly, comics at least had decades of material and ideas to pull from before they started doing it.

  • @brownbearboxproductions3458
    @brownbearboxproductions3458 8 місяців тому

    They should’ve saved multiverse stuff for at least 10 years , that way spiderman could’ve benefit from having maybe lost aunt may later on as well as Gwen and maybe he could’ve had a story about him reuniting with loved ones temporarily and losing it again

  • @Eddierath
    @Eddierath 8 місяців тому

    I agree the MARVEL multiverse Plot device makes the stakes very weak almost non existent.

  • @kaanDAninja
    @kaanDAninja 8 місяців тому

    I think it could be detrimental like they are connecting everything now, nothing stands on it’s own, it’s cool and all with the crossovers but like it’ll get to a point where nothing is it’s won thing anymore and there will be too many interconnected sotrylines and what not

  • @AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz
    @AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz 8 місяців тому +1

    the multiverse as a concept is not bad, but every "writer" that runs out of ideas ends up in a multiverse.

  • @mattevans4377
    @mattevans4377 8 місяців тому +1

    People focus too much on concepts, especially Hollywood. What people really want is good writing, they just need to say that in the hopes Hollywood listens.

  • @LeMonkeyDaSucc
    @LeMonkeyDaSucc 9 місяців тому +2

    Isn’t the TVA/HWR essentially just the Watcher so they exist outside of the timeline. They don’t time travel because the entire timeline exist all at once. Your not supposed to care about the disaster event locations because since it’s already meant to be destroyed you can do whatever and no branching timeline could be made.
    Only thing that confuses me is how He Who Remains death essentially resets the TVA. Also Its most likely because I don’t remember but why does he get replaced with Kang which causes the reset, shouldn’t nobody take his place which either causes the complete destruction of the TVA or at least the slow fixing of the timeline itself.

  • @Foggycallabasashillshelicopter
    @Foggycallabasashillshelicopter 8 місяців тому +1

    Lmao the intro

  • @legendarywolverine5529
    @legendarywolverine5529 8 місяців тому

    What 4 multiverse movie?

    • @SomethingsFishy845
      @SomethingsFishy845  8 місяців тому +1

      The Flash, Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, Madame Web and Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse.

  • @caos1925
    @caos1925 9 місяців тому +1

    ok mr owl man

  • @Itsfinebuddy
    @Itsfinebuddy 8 місяців тому

    Maybe I'm dumb but I always find myself questioning that MCU is confused between multiverse and timeline (many world theory)
    Like in NWH they are multiverse varients but kang is kang at different point in time , they are not multiverse varient of kang but timeline varient

  • @jagdeishwarmagendran3395
    @jagdeishwarmagendran3395 9 місяців тому +8

    I think the thing with loki, just have him be him from 2012 but i think it would be better of his charecter changes for silvie insted of watching a replay.

  • @sharkanenoa5928
    @sharkanenoa5928 8 місяців тому +1

    It’s how they executed is the problem. The Multiverse is story telling device with limitless potential. Studios see it as a way of bringing actors from old superheroe movies that are still alive to reprise their roles… or DEAD if your Warner Bros

  • @derrickjohnson4952
    @derrickjohnson4952 3 місяці тому

    Really the problem might not be there are multiverse per say but that they connect or interact. One of the first times the multiverses interacted was so DC could get rid of them. 2022’s The Batman “probably” won’t interact with any other Batman but it’s still a multiverse & it’s kinda cool it’s just an elseworld story on its own. And you could always just have different multiverse only able to connect to some others earth 1 can only interact with earth 7,10,12 but not 2 or 3

  • @hisham031170
    @hisham031170 2 місяці тому

    No character can stay dead, that’s the problem.

  • @omnis8511
    @omnis8511 9 місяців тому +5

    a collective of cloned planets in a sort of Us film formula or the universe being a save file and that the setting being virtual reality can make things easy

  • @cloudy_days2321
    @cloudy_days2321 9 місяців тому +3

    Multiverses are complicated. Creating a compelling series of stories set in a multiverse requires a level of writing skill that doesn't exist in the current media machine.

  • @bottledfox5369
    @bottledfox5369 8 місяців тому +1

    By putting variants in trial, the variants are put in a hopeless position where they either join the TVA or die. It's all for recruiting's sake.

  • @jalengaskin8450
    @jalengaskin8450 8 місяців тому +1

    I agree. In the case of marvel they shouldn’t have started with the multiverse

  • @Benlovescheese
    @Benlovescheese 8 місяців тому +1

    Your Loki sounds much better. President Loki would have been incredible, I liked it for sure.

  • @shadowgb
    @shadowgb 9 місяців тому

    sliders did it best. thru established how it should work.

  • @e-scope
    @e-scope 8 місяців тому

    Guardians Vol. 3 takes place around 3 years after Endgame, in about Early 2026

  • @sw33tcreature
    @sw33tcreature 9 місяців тому +1

    Most multiverse stories ruin the main universe for me. For all the great world building put into a story, sometimes it’s best to keep it isolated, and not branch too far off for the sake of being meta.

  • @lord_egg
    @lord_egg 8 місяців тому

    The other thing is nostalgia. As Someone said it's annoying because they use it just for nostalgia points a lot of the time, but my other annoyance with the use of nostalgia is that they never continue that universe. Even if it was in something like a book or a comic it would be better because we're still getting to see what they are talking about when they refer to things we haven't seen, it also gives more validity if they come back again later. Otherwise it just feels like they haven't had any new adventures since their last multiversal one. Take the 80's TMNT show. They had a comeback in Turtles Forever, which was great, but then when they came back for the 2012 show the way they acted it was almost like they had just come from Turtles Forever. Which would have been fine if say they got lost in the multiverse at the end of that movie but they didn't. They went back home. Again in No Way Home. It doesn't make sense that Tobey had his three adventures with big bad enemies all within 5 years...and then just have nothing come after. The way it was presented is that the time has past since Spider-man 3, but Peter hasn't grown or changed over the last 16 years. Has he broken up with MJ? Married MJ? Encountered more super-villains? Not encountered any more super-villains since 2007? And you can theorise and guess from small lines in the film but the movie doesn't give a definitive answer.

  • @alimfuzzy
    @alimfuzzy 8 місяців тому

    Like everything it depends on tge skill of the writers... unfortunately mcu and dcu are too broad and have too many different writers that don't collaborate.

  • @generalveers9544
    @generalveers9544 8 місяців тому

    The problem with a movie series or cinematic universe doing a multiverse, especially when they aren’t direct sequels, is that they each have to be written so they can explain the premise to an uninitiated audience. This sounds reasonable, until it ends up that we have several movies in a row that devote the whole first act and part of the second act to explaining again and again. Not to mention, Guardians 3 is not a good example because the elevator scene made it clear that Gunn did not appreciate what happened in infinity war.

  • @castleoffiction96
    @castleoffiction96 8 місяців тому

    this does kind of remind me of Ben 10 Omniverse. Sure, a lot of people hate that series, but the idea of multiple Bens was pretty well-executed

  • @trowa9960
    @trowa9960 9 місяців тому +3

    I love a good multiversal story. I don't like bad writing. Entire genre's can be made around multiversal stories, and just like any genre there will be good and bad writing. It's an exciting concept that lends itself to potentially massive amounts of imagination with the only limits are what you set. It's a good writing vs. bad writing problem.
    Now, unfortunately, there's plenty of bad writing out there and stories focus on either cliches or agenda's over good writing. Even when I agree with the politics of certain agenda's (such as focusing on a strong female lead) it's still crap if the writing sounds like the dialogue was taken from 2000's sociology text book. Yeah, I'm talking about you, She-Hulk. Do better. (Now I'm talking about you, Sam Wilson). cringe.

  • @matthewbernard9173
    @matthewbernard9173 9 місяців тому

    T.V.A watched Gamora & Captain America relocate to another time & did nothing but these multiverse concept are crazy, i'd like to think if you go back in time & killed your father you simple do not exist but then your mom replaces your father with some else & they still have a kid that lives the same life you did only with some differences

  • @zaktan7197
    @zaktan7197 9 місяців тому +6

    I can enjoy alternate dimensions, alien planets, and different planes of existence. What I generally find less enjoyable is a multiverse where every possible thing that could have happened has happened. It becomes not so much a story as here is a random series of events out of an infinite number of random events. The heroes may have won in this timeline, but there are a million other timelines where the heroes lose and those timelines are just as real. A story has to have some limits for it to be meaningful. Have a blessed day

    • @hunter7643
      @hunter7643 8 місяців тому

      or is it the limitlessness the meaning?

  • @MountainFisher
    @MountainFisher 10 місяців тому +6

    People think they've proven that there is a multiverse, but it is mere speculation. All we really know is this Universe had a beginning, but what caused it is not known.

  • @freddie3222
    @freddie3222 7 місяців тому +1

    They're just not done right or lead up to properly once you want to bring a multiverse movie together you need at least one more movie in each universe first then the multiverse cross over like it would have been much better to have spider man 4 and amazing Spider-Man 3 then no way home

  • @latenightthinker4737
    @latenightthinker4737 8 місяців тому

    I feel like people forget that there are literally infinite variations.. INFINITE. Meaning there’s a universe where everything is the same but this specific dust particle right here is an inch to the left, one less salmon was caught this morning, you read this comment just a little bit quicker, and then one where all of those were combined. It’s meaningless when it comes to writing, but I think it’s worth noting

  • @ankhboldcrain9954
    @ankhboldcrain9954 9 місяців тому

    Loki wasn't about fully exploring different universes in the multiverse so I think it's unfair to use that to judge the MCU multiverse, that was a contained story about Loki, Dr strange and the multiverse of madness is more of a way to look at what the MCU multiverse will probably be like going forward.
    Also I disagree with the Loki character development just cause I think it makes sense because he always wanted to be loved and accepted and he saw that he was, he also realized that he was in the most powerful place in the universe where infinity stones meant nothing and the first time he was taken out into the field he tried to trick and manipulate owen Wilson.

  • @4891MR
    @4891MR 10 місяців тому +5

    Using the multiverse correctly is complicated. That's the simple answer. If you don't see my point, then there no simple way for me to respond to your argument. I can agree that if stories use the multiverse, then they should be internally consistent with the complexities it introduces, while I simultaneously disagree, paradoxically, that stories preferably should use the multiverse at all. I don't have to pick yes or no -- that's the point. In DC comics, the multiverse started with a crossover to the classic version of Flash and they've gone back and forth ever since in how it impacts DC continuity. In Marvel comics, the multiverse started as a device to simplify time travel, but it was later used to complicate regular time. Then X-Men then later happened to play a big role in bringing it to mass media with the Days of Future Past movie, which actually made explicit reference to Star Trek TV episodes. The Pine/Quinto Star Trek movies happen to make good study in both the right way to do parallel universes and the wrong way.

  • @sheep9546
    @sheep9546 9 місяців тому

    Yes they can be. If not written by a comptitent writer and if the medium they want to add a multiverse too. Cannot support it by its lore alone. Sole stories fall apart when a multiverse or timeravel plot point is added to it. Cough star wars cough

  • @benhoughton4937
    @benhoughton4937 8 місяців тому

    i can feel your breath on my ears

  • @DzustComics
    @DzustComics 10 місяців тому +6

    I've only seen 4 stories use the concept well. Into the Spiderverse Everything everywhere all at once and Black Science have used it to explore what if scenarios and develope characters. All the other movies shows and comics just use it for cameos and raising streaks.

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +1

      I'd add the Justice League animated show. With the way they handled the Justice Lords and the ramifications that had. Treating it almost like a time loop that was bound to happen. Showing what the Justice League become. That's much more interesting than another Multiverse collapsing story.

  • @itsmytoast666
    @itsmytoast666 10 місяців тому +4

    Bummer you don't have more views, comments, & video essays. This is a great video, but it's also a bit confusing - are you mixing properties up as a gag or do you really think Marvel owns The Flash & Jotunheim?

  • @retr0productions
    @retr0productions 9 місяців тому

    182 subs w this editing? gawd dayum im so sorry

  • @astatine5781
    @astatine5781 8 місяців тому

    No, the idea of the multiverse (in movies and shows) should be thrown away like NOW, I like the Spider-Man into the spider verse movie but in reality it’s really stupid to someone who actually knows how the multiverse theory works, there wouldn’t just be one Spot (the villain) and there would also be thousands of miles morales’ so it’s just unmanageable. Rick and morty is also a good example, it’s a good show but in reality it’s just terrible, the instant we get to travel to specific multiverses is the instant we become completely unstoppable, I mean seriously we could just go to a universe where everything was made out the most rare and valuable material ever. Especially someone like Rick, Rick from Rick and morty wouldn’t have to manually travel dimensions to find one that had whatever resource he needed, he could just make androids to do it and catalog everything in every universe in like 10 days. I personally dislike the multiverse shenanigans because if there is a villain who wants to end every universe they are literally unstoppable as mathematically speaking there will always be one that actually wins. I think it’s a fun idea for science fiction but if even the average person looks into it for more than 10 seconds the entire plot becomes meaningless and stupid.

  • @driftwood9705
    @driftwood9705 9 місяців тому +1

    No, I don’t think Multi-verse stories are bad. I think stories that you know are going to destroy that generation universe, reboot and create an entire universe will make the last movies really needless to watch. Which people know they don’t need to watch those movies because they will no longer be part of the new generation universe. If they’re going to destroy the old universe and create a new universe. They shouldn’t tel us or let us know because then people aren’t going to see the last few movies. Of the old generation pre-reboot.

  • @shotaaizawa1206
    @shotaaizawa1206 8 місяців тому

    My problem with the MCU's multiverse is not exactly a story problem
    ... well, it is. If infinite realities exist, then wouldn't there also be infinite realities where Steve didn't return the infinity stones? They all say that they follow the "proper flow of time" but that isn't possible inf physics, or atleast of what I know. The thing is with alternate timelines in order to cancel them out you have to have EXACTLY everything perfectly the same as another one, down to the last atom.
    So Kang getting rid of many timelins through alterations is NOT possible in this sense in anyway; it would actually make MORE timelines.
    And why do the Avenger's get a "get out of jail card" when it comes to taking the infinity stones of the past: wouldn't that go against the "sacred timeline?" In that case, it's not even Loki's fault, it's their fault that the TVA just so happened to ignore.
    Ok, this is more of a physics complaint if anything as well as double-standards, but it stille really nags at me, like how extremely flawed Thanos's plan was "dude could have literally changed the mindset of everyone to not overpopulate or be peaceful with the infinity stones but NOPE genocide was apparently the correct answer)

  • @morbiusfan3176
    @morbiusfan3176 8 місяців тому

    EEAAO and Spider-Verse >>>> everything else

  • @anaylabh7106
    @anaylabh7106 9 місяців тому +5

    For the record, Cloak And Dagger is canon, it was made canon and no one in power said it's not canon

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +1

      I believe Feige didn't want any of the shows the produced outside of Disney+ to be canon. It's a shame because Agents of Shield introduced some awesome stuff like Ghost Rider and Inhumans.

    • @davidpalillero29
      @davidpalillero29 9 місяців тому +1

      @@DavidMartinez-ce3lp they are canon, the problem was the person in n charge of tv mcu universe they wanted to makes their own avengers cash grab version

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому

      @@davidpalillero29 I believe specifically for Agents of Shield they were canon, until they diverged the timeline. I honestly don't know about the rest. It's certainly possible they are canon, but unfortunately I don't think we'll ever see them again.

  • @WolfsHaven
    @WolfsHaven 9 місяців тому +9

    The multiverse started as an excuse to cover the multiple reboots the had in the comics, cartoon, tv shows, and movies. Each reboot changing many important key elements. Fans started getting confused and even angry because it differed from the story they knew and loved. The studios realized they needed to create a more cohesive story going forward but also pay homage to other previous reboots. Enter the multiverse.
    However they also started using it to cover what if's and explaining away wokeism. Now it's causing bigger issues than they tried to solve.
    The same thing is starting to happen with Star Wars. We had a nice cohesive story where everything had to fit in with what came before or have a really good explanation for the change. Mostly it either expanded on the story or filled in the gaps.
    Then Disney came along and messed it all up and now it feels like there's 4 different story lines. Lucas's movies, the EU (that fit with what Lucas wrote except some early games and books but once everyone got on the same page it worked), the sequels and high republic (which often steps on what Lucas wrote and ignores the EU) , and the Mando/Favreau/Feloniverse. Which is trying to bridge it all but is already running into problems with the new high republic stuff.
    It's also coming really close to rewriting the sequel movies (like them or not) and changing previous canon, rather than filling in the gaps.
    All because every different writer wants to do their own thing rather than building on and expanding the work of others. It's disrespectful to the previous work of others and the fans. If you can't, you need to tell your story with completely different characters.

  • @Subject_Keter
    @Subject_Keter 9 місяців тому +2

    You first need writers that can write at the basic level of not making self inserts for a Multiverse story to work, tighten the focus and ideally try to keep any alternate verisons of characters in the main cast minial.
    If people can like the lord of the self insert, people can like a "good" story.

  • @iBloodxHunter
    @iBloodxHunter 8 місяців тому

    The answer to the title question is YES. Multiverse is a trash narrative idea and I'll tell you a primary reason for this:
    The entire premise requires there to be one "multiverse" that is unified and belligerent enough to attempt to break into other universes. The INSTANT somebody is able to travel from one to another it just becomes more space. It's just more room to store my stuff in the moment I can actually go there. That's not even brushing up on the whole "replace the dog that got ran over before the kid notices" different versions of yourself bs.

  • @TheSquirrelSwirl
    @TheSquirrelSwirl 9 місяців тому +12

    It's not that the multiverse story is a problem. It's how its presented, and how the threat/antagonist is presented.
    In the MCU theres low stakes since everyone has the ability to come back, even if it causes incursions characters like Dr Strange will just solve like in the post credit scene of MOM.
    Kang isn't one persona, theres just another more powerful version of him out there.
    In EEAAO the threat is the entire multiverse at stake, everything will be destroyed if the conflict isn't resolved. If a character dies they can't come back since the transportation isn't a portal, it only transfers consciousness.
    Jobu Tupaki is a threat since her consciousness is stronger than anyone else's, and she found life meaningless, so she just decides to destroy everything. Even versions of her that aren't villains still, have the desire to stop existing. So Evelyn must solve her issues with her daughter before it's too late. It's both a cosmic consequence and a personal consequence.

    • @JohnPeacekeeper
      @JohnPeacekeeper 9 місяців тому +3

      It doesn't even have to be massive, multiversal stakes all the time. It can be personal stakes.
      Like from Season 5 onward of Rick and Morty, the stakes are in that the current Smith-Sanchez family, all hailing from different timelines, are now special and unique versions of themselves because they all underwent character development that no other version of them has. This compels them and us to care about them more since they cannot afford to lose anyone.

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +2

      Maybe if there was something to focus on in the MCU. Like an evil version of Kang that witnessed the Incursions and is recreating the results with his super tech to remove any opposition. We learn all of this through a good version of Kang trying to stop the bad version. Leading to the Beyonders erasing any and all Kangs from the Multiverse because he is simply too dangerous.

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 9 місяців тому

      To be fair, that's a character trait limited to Kang. Also, not every variant of a character is the same.

    • @TheSquirrelSwirl
      @TheSquirrelSwirl 8 місяців тому +1

      @@LineOfThy Yes, I'm aware that the trait is only limited to Kang. But that's the problem, there's no moment to get attached to any of the Kang variants when they get killed off quickly (and easily, like wtf he got beaten by a Loki variant and Ant man). The reason to why the comics worked, is because we got to see each of Kang's personalities, Kang, Rama Tut, Immortus, Scarlet Centurion, Iron Lad, etc. The comic "Only Myself Left To Conquer" perfectly does this.
      And for your second point, I don't get why you needed to add that. Nothing about my original comment had anything to do with the variants being the same. If you're talking about me saying that a character can come back, a variant doesn't have to be directly the same. But as we see from MOM and NWH variants can look, sound, and act the same as our normal Earth 1999999 heroes.

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 8 місяців тому

      @@TheSquirrelSwirl 1) First kang let himself be killed and second kang was weakened and put at a disadvantage.
      2) Looks and Sounds DO NOT equal the same. They're not even close in personality or motivations OR experiences, y'know, the things that actually make up a character? And wtf do you mean in NWH? None of those spider people look or sound the same *at all*

  • @kbreezy1581
    @kbreezy1581 9 місяців тому +3

    Why hasn't the tva come after gamora tho??

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +3

      Because of some convenient BS that makes it so they don't need to for some reason or another.

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 9 місяців тому

      They only come after timelines that lead to new Kangs

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 9 місяців тому

      @@DavidMartinez-ce3lp It's not convenient. It's the way it's supposed to be.

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 8 місяців тому +1

      @@LineOfThy it's BS

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 8 місяців тому

      @@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Something isn't BS because you don't like it

  • @Bayron4eva
    @Bayron4eva 9 місяців тому +4

    Multiversal stories are actually better than universal stories, because they not only endanger the main universe you're used to, but they affect all others involved, because if one is destroyed chances are (as marvel explained) that they will both come to a destructive end.

  • @wilhemyoung
    @wilhemyoung 8 місяців тому +3

    Ah, yes, multiverses. The thing I did once in my stories. Only once. Takes me back to one of my favourite villains, who can be summed up as:
    “I’m gonna destroy the universe!”
    “Oh no!”
    “Oh sorry, did I say universe? I meant *multiverse!”*
    “OH NO!”
    And yes, he is capable of doing so. He’s a god.

  • @ssj2_snake
    @ssj2_snake 8 місяців тому

    I am getting really sick of everyone pretending that stakes in a show/movie are all about whether or not characters die. Its the most basic way to engage with fiction. Stop pretending that the only reason you find action compelling is because you are actually wondering if a character is going to die or not. It's ridiculous. By this logic, every action scene where a character survives is no longer interesting after you find out the character survives.
    If a show fails to make you care about something, that is purely the failure of the storyteller. Pulp Fiction managed to make you remember a watch that was inside someone's ass. Is this because the watch itself is compelling in any way?

  • @prezmil4282
    @prezmil4282 9 місяців тому +7

    It’s annoying and takes any real weight out of consequences knowing it can/will all be reversed soon. Curious to see who breaks the trend first and start putting out good standalone material.

    • @LineOfThy
      @LineOfThy 9 місяців тому +1

      It's not. even if you reverse everything, not everything is the same, like Gamora from GoTG 3.

    • @AndrewDukes
      @AndrewDukes 9 місяців тому +1

      @@LineOfThyit’s like the guy didn’t even watch the video

    • @anotheryoutubeaccount5259
      @anotheryoutubeaccount5259 8 місяців тому +1

      But there are plenty of standalone movies

  • @GamingGalaxyWasTaken
    @GamingGalaxyWasTaken 9 місяців тому

    I got to say. Comparing Loki to Gamora is a different sittuation. Loki has always felt them feeings, it's having the experinces that made him unload them feelings. By watching himsef be loved by Thor and protecting him, it simulated those experinces in his head, unlike Gamora where her emotions for Peter did not exist as she had not met Peter just yet.

  • @usparks
    @usparks 9 місяців тому +7

    I really love how they used the Multiverse in Across the Spiderverse.

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +1

      I feel the Spiderverse movies do a disservice to the character of Miles by focusing so much on these other versions and saving the Multiverse. They could've used the first movie to establish Miles and then the second movie to show him being the Spiderman of his universe. A simple story that builds up his world. But it seems like they don't trust him to carry his own movie, so they throw in other versions of Spiderman.

    • @davidpalillero29
      @davidpalillero29 9 місяців тому +3

      @@DavidMartinez-ce3lp you again

    • @DavidMartinez-ce3lp
      @DavidMartinez-ce3lp 9 місяців тому +1

      @@davidpalillero29 no

    • @mohabalserafe3795
      @mohabalserafe3795 9 місяців тому +2

      ​@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp yes it's you again with the exact same comment

  • @rebbeca3097
    @rebbeca3097 9 місяців тому +1

    EXACTLY Multiverse stories work when they have something to constrast with, thats why the Flash 2023 doesnt work, they didn't have a Superman to contrast with the new super girl, it was just supergirl

  • @redtob2119
    @redtob2119 8 місяців тому

    I personally hate most multiverses

  • @ryftedmage1404
    @ryftedmage1404 9 місяців тому

    Speaking on Loki a little bit. Asgard makes complete sense, because ragnarok is an apocalyptic event. I’m not sure why they didn’t do this. Maybe they’d think it was too obvious

  • @snickers2210
    @snickers2210 9 місяців тому +2

    People saying multiversal stories are bad is just like when people thought superheros were dumb and childish (some people still think this).
    There are always going to be poor implementations and bad implementations.
    Personally I think multiverse stories have incredible potential for storytelling. Just like always, its up the writing of the story to make it good or not.

  • @unlimitedgamerworks6125
    @unlimitedgamerworks6125 8 місяців тому

    I like the Nasuverse, but most i dislike due to tgem ushering in bad writting and lazy fan service.

  • @OzzyTheGiant
    @OzzyTheGiant 9 місяців тому +3

    TL;DR: The multiverse is a great concept and I disagree with others that think this is a problem. I see it as a fresh way to write stories.
    I for one love the concept of the multiverse. I like mentally-challenging things, connecting pieces across places, and although there are some pretty stupid people out there who can't even connect two dots, we must not underestimate the human mind. The point is, the multiverse brings a whole new way to tell stories across all mediums. This has a lot of benefits:
    - Telling stories of alternate timelines or branches where different decisions were made (see What If?)
    - Crossing character stories not just in one universe, but in multiple ones, which allows for multiple variations of different but interesting plots); kinda goes with the first point
    - For live action, this means we can reuse characters while not having to force actors to reprise a role for many years or decades; I mean RDJ and Chris Evans are aging and they went out with a bang, but if we want to see Captain American and Iron Man again, not only do we have "succesors" (Falcon, Iron Heart, maybe Spider-Man), but we can tap into the multiverse to get another version of these characters and we can use other younger actors and chalk it up to them just being multiverse variants. It's a genius idea. These three points so far are what allowed us to get No Way Home.
    - Adapting story lines for a different demographic, which has been done in comics for years, but can now be done at the cinema level. This was evident with the different cultured spider-men we saw in Across the Spider-Verse
    - More thoughtful implications. One thing that has been getting old to some extent is the battle of good vs evil, which is a nice plot occasionally, but with the multiverse, we get implications that are not "black and white." This was also evident in Across the Spider-Verse. Most, if not all Spider-Men are considered to be the heroes, but when Miles finds out about the "cannon events" he refuses to let his story play out the way all spider-man stories usually go, but Spiderman 2099 tries to enforce that to save the multi-verse, at least in his view. Point is, you can't tell who is the real hero as they're all doing what is best for themselves while balancing what's best for the world. There's no heroes or villains, just conflicts, and you can't trust anyone, not even yourself!
    I think this is a renaissance for cinema and for other mediums as well.
    If you still can't understand how the multiverse works, it's simple. Universes, timelines and realities are all the same. When a critical decision or event takes place, there is a potential for new branches of that timeline to exist, creating new timelines/realities/universes. Think of it as a tree of realities. Going back in time and changing reality means further manipulating the timeline and creating new possibilities, but it means not going back to the future you came from, but rather a new one. It's really not that hard; endgame explained the laws of time travel really well.

  • @mr_indie_fan
    @mr_indie_fan 9 місяців тому +2

    The multiverse isn't a problem, it's the way Marvel and these other stupid companies keep writing it.
    The multiverse should be a connected web of universes, NOT one where each universe is just the same characters just a little different each time.