The 48,500 lb Punch That Broke Rolling Thunder
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- More often than not, military aircraft have notoriously short lifespans, and fighters face a particular problem as they must compete directly with the newest available models. Only a handful of fighters around the globe have been able to stand the test of time, and one of them is the MiG-21.
With NATO callsign Fishbed and known as the Blue Bandit by many American pilots who faced it in combat, the MiG-21 supersonic jet fighter and interceptor aircraft ranks as one of the most widely produced and exported fighters in history.
An aircraft fast enough to catch up with even the most skilled American pilots and armed with missiles instead of guns, the MiG-21 was highly feared during Operation Rolling Thunder in Vietnam.
Still, despite its power, impact, and sheer production numbers, the Soviet-made design fell victim to what many consider one of the most impressive ruses in military warfare...
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When I read "the greatest trick in air force history", I imagined someone painted a runway on the side of a mountain like something out of Roadrunner.
"You fell for the oldest trick in the book! What a goof!"
SHUT YOUR MOUTH! It's still classified.
As usual, the idiot narrator Of “dark skies“ does not properly communicate what really happened in this “trick“ against the North Vietnamese Air Force by the US Air Force. What’s new. The clownish narrator does however inform us, at timestamp 3:14 that this “light weight fighter“ can carry an amazing “48,500 pounds“ of ordinance. Mind you, the maximum takeoff weight This aircraft is 20,000 pounds. Do you believe in miracles? Well I do now because dark skies produces them in almost every video packed full of idiotic misinformation And downright stupid errors.
Or somebody set up a fake prop air base a few miles from their real air base like in Blazing Saddles
@@reaperthemad8731 the Germans did that in WW2, then the Brits dropped wooden bombs on it
When last MiG 21 is retired, their intake protectors can still be used as traffic cones. What a timeless design.
It would make a great buttplug for Sven, my gay lover!👍
well put
Dunce cap for Putin .
Or Watermelon juicers
No sell to India for use in their Brahmos missile
10:12 Yugoslavia was NEVER a Soviet teritory, it was independant country not aligned to East or West. In 1948 almost went to a war vs USSR. Please add the correction in a description.
For ex-Yugoslavians, it is very offensive saying things like that. Thanks for understanding.
There was another reason Operation BOLO worked , they took IFF transponders out of F105's and put them into the F4's ( they used different units that could be recognised by radio intercept systems ) which was the final bit of disinfo that convinced the NV Airforce to attack
Thanks for making that point Davie because that was the main reason the deception work. That an Robin Olds !
did they mention also using the Ewar pods from the thuds?
@@bohba13 Yeah they had everything that F106 used
It didn't fool the Mig pilots. It fooled the ground radar guy who directed the Mig pilots to the targets. Russian defense doctrine.
It's official, this is the only time in your life you will hear the F4 described as far more agile.
The F4 was far more agile compared to the suicide missions the F105 flew. Thud Ridge must have been hell on earth, God bless the F105 brave pilots.
compared to a -105, yes it is
F-4s proved that a brick could fly with enough thrust.
Amen to that. See the comment about Boyd, above.
@@zealot777 80,000 feet plus and over mach 2....but we always build "jack of all trades" and only occasionally masters of one....that are too expensive and need too much maintenance. ...and now we need a herd of F-15's....until some top secret magic shows up.
3:10 "...carrying up to 48,500lbs ordinance for a single mission."
I think you missed that one by at least an order of magnitude.
noticed that one too, 24 tons! - full max. weight of a Mig21 is around 9 tons lol. Carries approx. 4000 lbs, or 1000Kg on each Wing plus the cannon
48,500 is the net weight on a semi trailer....
@@stephenfritz7493 That seems awfully heavy for something of that size that is supposed to fly. The wiki article lists the max takeoff weight as 22,928lb (10400kg) which seems more realistic.
@@somerandomnification i should have been clearer stating my disbelief
@@stephenfritz7493 And now I get it. ;)
I was trained on MIG-21 as a ground service man. I had to learn pretty much everything about this plane. Navigation equipment was a copy of equipment from WW2 US bombers. You are mistaken - it had a 23mm auto cannon. There was no integrated testing, so it needed an army of technicians always inspecting and testing subsystems. the engine had very strict envelope of RPM - start, warmup, flight spin down. Any excursion from the envelope triggered an engine overhaul. It all boiled down to the metallurgy of the turbine blades. USSR did not have the right alloy. A nightmare to service.
May I ask you
How long is it TBO?
Good point sir 👍...I knew a man from Finland and he was in their own Air Force and he said that the hydraulic brakes on the landing gear oleo had a bad habit of leaking oil and the Finish Air Force requested it to be fixed and the Soviet Union used them buckets 🪣 to catch the hydraulic oil when they were on the on the ground 🤣
Interesting.
As a child growing up in Europe during the latter Cold War, I was a keen plastic modeler of planes of the 60’s and 70’s. The early MiG-21F, with its clean lines and diminutive size against most US and European fighter jets, was always a favourite, as was the F-5A and Hawker Hunter for similar reasons. Great video, thanks for posting!
That was the right match up, American F5E Tigershark against the MiG 21 fishbed. Americans were too stupid to produce enough light-weight fighters until forced to in the mid-1970s with the “unwanted“ light weight fighter program that was promoted by secretary of defense David Packard, of the famous Hewlett-Packard corporation. Kicking and screaming, the idiots of the US Air Force got the best fighter they ever had an ever will have, the F 16 Falcon. If ever you get the notion that the enemy Air Force is stupid, you can be sure that your own is equally if not more brain dead.
But the MIG-21 is so F ugly.
It was the same for me with the _Saab J-35 "Draken"_ , of which you could buy a plastic model kit in Eastern Germany(!), where I'm from. And I have to say, the Draken is still one of the coolest fighter jet designs I'm aware of!
@@gageguy maybe, but so effective. for me the first jet fighter ever was ugly - Me-262 Schwalbe
@@WeissWhite You are joking, right?
If I recall; not only did they fly the same route but the same speed and used the same radio callsigns.
Yes
Yup, Col. Olds was truly an artist.
And the same jamming pods.
Damn we are crafty!
@@madaxe606 that's correct. The jamming pods used on the F-105 were "jerry rigged" to the F-4's, and the North Vietnamese GCI controllers were completely taken in by this, the route flown, and call signs used.
From what I read, it was Robin Olds plan that convinced higher up to use his plan, not the other way around. The pilots closest to the fight are the ones that understand the best way to handle the fight, and how to take it to the enemy.
There was a MiG 21 doing demonstration flights at Oshkosh back in '90 and his routine on takeoff was to roll to one of the marker lights then hit the afterburner which came on with a very pronounced THUMP...and I noticed small children being knocked over by it nearby on the line. After a couple days of watching this laughing I mentioned it to the pilot...who thereafter turned to see what I was talking about...and afterwards was also enjoying seeing them go over. Of course nobody was hurt...just startled by the explosion and down they went. Fun times!
I was in Oshkosh this year and unfortunately I did not see a mig 21
It flew with the f-104, that mig is still parked up there on the convention grounds
I had an acquaintance who had one in the states. Just after taking off he had to declare a fuel emergency as he had fewer than minimum safe flight fuel capacity left. Didn't really stop him though.
@@dwightstone7483 glad I'm not the only one using Gboard
@@czinvazion816 tam jsem sice nebyl, ale příště to třeba dopadne 🙂
The 21 is incredibly small. Saw one at the Pima Museum and it seemed way smaller than I had imagined. This explains why flying a 737 into Reno one day, we could not see a MIG 21 that passed 2 miles in front of us as we descended under him. And, he was hauling the mail at near 300 kts. Amazing aircraft.
that's why the NVAF used them the way they did. Kept 'em in the weeds until they were in position to make a pass at the US strike force, then they'd afterburn at the strike package, fire their atoll heat seekers then run like heck. No room for 'initiative'. The strong point is, between it's small size and smokeless engine, by the time you COULD see it, it probably had already fired it's missiles. HOWEVER, if the migs lost the initiative, IE: ground control 'choked' and put the Migs in a position where the US fighter was not noticed, and 'less than stellar' maneuverability and the poor visibility out of the '21's cockpit made it hard to either dodge a missile or evade a 'gun pass'.
@@nickmitsialis classic hit and run tactics, aka boom and zoom. Really useful with the right airframe against the right target.
@@Ocker3 Yup; and much of this took place before really effective AWAC early warning systems got perfected (AND I don't even want to talk about how the AirForce 'Brass' decided in 1968 that 'air combat maneuvering training' was too dangerous and got 'de-emphasized', along with other absurd 'doctrinal nonsense'.
This is why early Soviet Warbirds are considered vintage and collectable much like a sport car.
The Mig looks cool. It has classic lines for a supersonic jet fighter. You look at it and it pretty much screams badass.
This is why you can find a number of them today in western museums.
Along with their western competitors.
Truly an amazing aircraft in reality. And here on the farcical “dark skies” channel, the Mig 21 becomes super capable, fantastic …… like crazy, like only the Russians can do! At timestamp 3:14 We are informed that this incredible “lightweight” fighter (that actually has a maximum takeoff Weight of 20,000 pounds) ….. that it can actually carry up to 48,500 pounds of weapons. Only the Russians can carry off such miracles and only in The fanciful realm of “dark skies.“ It is possible that there is a more bombastic dimwit on the Internet, but as far as I know, the narrator and producer of “dark skies“ takes the cake.
10:10 Yugoslavia was NOT a "soviet territory" ffs. And was not a member of the Warsaw pact but famously part and instigator of "non-aligned movement". Unlike Georgia as one of actual soviet republics and Czechoslovakia which was Warsaw Pact member but also not a "soviet territory" although unfortunately a forced into submission satellite state.
The fact that we weren't allowed to attack Mig bases was just another example of the fact that our greatest enemy was found in the oval office. We were allowed to die, but not to fight.
3:14 48000 lbs of ordinance ?
That is a big mistake...
My wives Uncle flew a F4 phantom in Vietnam and downed 2 MIGs. He flew on op BOLO with Olds and was a close friend actually giving Olds his check out flight on the F4. His name was Bill Kirk of Rayville Louisiana and would go on to become a 4 star general commanding all USAF personnel in Europe during the 80s. But to us he was just Uncle Buddy.
Thank you for your post my Uncle Bill aka General William E Thurman almost certainly knew your uncle as well as my dad, Maj Stephen Thurman. My Mom has told me a story about a party they went to where Colonel Olds attended. Uncle Bill was an F-105 pilot who was shot down and picked up by SAR, while my Dad was an F-102 pilot flying close support missions for the B-52s. USAF
a bunch of serial killers.
I'm proud of him for invading a smaller, weaker country, bombing their civilians and country to the ground and (possibly) killing those two poor pilots. Sorta reminds me of a war going on right now...
But anyways he probably didn't know, he was just used by US politics.
@@drumagus2258 in war its kill or be killed mate, there is no bad guy and there is no good guy.
@@victory7999 I suggest you go back to school and learn that North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam, a separate country. The U.S. got involved when South Vietnam asked for help in not being obliterated from the face of the earth by another country. I'm sure you are glad that a high percentage of the South Vietnamese military and people were killed or put in concentration camps by the North Vietnamese regime 3 years after the U.S. left. The helicopter you speak of was taking the U.S. Ambassador and his family away 3 years after all American military personnel had left. Those South Vietnamese you see in the pictures trying to get on the chopper were all murdered that day by North Vietnamese soldiers. Keep cheering for the North Vietnamese regime, though. I'm sure you are cheering for the Russians fighting against the evil and immoral Ukrainian Nazis in the current war in Ukraine. That's just the kind of guy you are.
Correction for 10:10 - the aircraft pictured belonged to Czechoslovakia, which was never a "Soviet territory", it was arguably more autonomous than East Germany within the Eastern Bloc. To also add, Yugoslavia was never under Soviet control, it wasn't even in the Warsaw pact, and had historically bad relations with the USSR.
Eastern Bloc nations were free to do what they were told to do by Moscow
@@kurtwinter4422 Yugoslavia is definitely the exception there.
Both were communist so they are both part of the USSR. No matter what you might think.
AS the matter of fact, Yugoslavia used US jets for a long time. Just until Stalin's death, they improve relations, and father that Yugoslavia bought migs 21. Many people don't know that Yugoslavian passport was visa free for more countries than US passport. Yugoslavians could go freely almost over whole world.
@@simescales F 86 Sabre and up gunned Sherman tanks.
Stalin tried to have Tito killed multiple times.
47-12? in less than a year? Jesus christ Nam was a true American horror story.
Mig-21N had a maximum Payload of 3310 lbs., and maximum takeoff weight of 18,010 lbs. Not sure where you obtain an ordnance load out of 48,500 lbs.
Noticed this as well. Maybe he meant 48 hundred, not thousand. Almost every video of him has one or more mistakes of that kind.
@@00747110815arschleck ain't nobody got time to fact check these days.
in ounces rather than pounds, maybe?
@@00747110815arschleck just to be picky, but that’s still 50% too high.
I knew a guy who owned one. He said even with ferry tanks, it had a range of about 35 minutes so he’d have to declare a fuel emergency before he took off.
“I need a runway for a emergency landing”
“What’s your location?”
“Waiting to take off….”
This is one of the funniest aviation fact I’ve ever read
BS
That is 100% UL. The plane had far, far higher fight time in ferry mode than 35 min. In fact even a regular HI-Hi-HI profile with a CL drop tanks last more than 35 min.
The Soviet Union was exceedingly incompetent but even they would know that pushing out a fighter plane with 35 mins of fuel would be disastrous. Even if it was the case, say maybe they intended to use it solely as a propaganda tool, the fact remains that othet nations actually bought and use the MiG-21. If this story is true, the guy is either embellishing his account or something is seriously wrong with his plane.
Amazing how many of them still renains as landmarks/decoration. Thanks to the above, this has been the jet I'm most familiar with, including sitting inside & walking all over the wings & fuselage as a kid. Many cuts from sharp metal elements included :) this is how you fall in love with aviation I guess. Books & YT videos will never replace the smell of jet oil/fuel & the cold steel under your hands
Ah, at Old Warden, the smell of castor oil drifting from the skies above Sopwith Triplane, and a week later JP4 (Sabre) at Duxford.
A business based in Penrose, Auckland New Zealand has a Mig 21 on a static display on their roof.
There was a guy many years ago who was trying to get a Mig 21 to flying standard also here in NZ, but too much govt and aviation red tape and it never went anywhere. I remember sitting in the cockpit of this Mig 21 and remember thinking how ugly the paint colour for the cockpit interior was 🤣🤣🤣
@@404Jeffery that's one weird shade of blue, isn't it? :D
Maybe this is why so many more kids are coming up anxious and depressed since social media platforms became so popular... The way you fall in Love with anything or just find your passion is to BE THERE... To become a part of that integral moment...
You fall in Love with motorcycles when some certain machine is rumbling to life under you and your heart is pounding miles a minute to the rumble, roar, and a take-off that damn nearly yanks your helmetted head off your shoulders...
You fall in Love with Aviation when there's that ONE aircraft that leaves a visceral impact upon your SOUL... Maybe it's an old jet fighter with the perfect lines and the pure AWE of seeing something that can accelerate like that over head, hear the Boom as it passes by or when it kicks on the afterburners... OR maybe it's one of the last old Super-Connie's when she rumbles out for take-off, shimmering her graceful curves in the sunlight, ripping up to full power with the flames puffing out of the engines, and a sound you'll never forget... OR maybe the first time you've ever been up close to a Chinook and felt the wind nearly put you on your ass as it picks up into the air with the archetypal chopping thump-thump-thump of the double rotors overhead... Whatever it is, you find that ONE thing that just does "it" and you're in Love...
We can't figure out what's going through the hearts, minds, or souls, of the true adventurers while we sit here at our screens. It's hard to explain our own passions and the why or how we do or did any of the things we've done, because to hear them or read them explained, it doesn't seem like there's a single redeemable value to it... ANY of it. From mountaineering and freezing your ass off, fighting hypoxia, pneumonia, edema, altitude sickness, frigid winds, and sudden storms where avalanches frequently sweep everything and everyone to their deaths... to Diving into shipwrecks and caves where the slightest issue can bring your life to an agonizing close over the course of several terror filled minutes... where sharks, octopi, stingrays, and near limitless other unforeseeable monsters may just show up out of the literal blue to take you out...
If you want to know why any of us do the crazy things we do, you just have to go and BE THERE to see and do it, yourself. The journey is it's own reward... It doesn't sound like it, and it often won't read like it. BUT if we only stay and dwell behind these glittery screens in awe of the things we don't have the guts to try, we're only going to continue convincing ourselves that no aspect of life "out there" is worth the bother... AND without igniting a passion, we WILL be depressed... Without finding our own integral strength to face the "hell of it all" we WILL become anxious... It's a terrible feedback loop, and at some point... It's true. "You just gotta be there."
IYKYK... ;o)
What a terrible title
I don’t believe it was the 7th AF high-ups that planned “Bolo”. Olds wasn’t chosen to do it, he came up with and planned the entire operation.
He was im glad I’m not the only one to notice the poor research for this
I love the design language of the Mig-21 , it makes me think of the space age and somehow strangely still looks futuristic despite being made in the 1950’s.
I first thought it was English Electric lightning - same front intake cone.
A real example of art deco design language
I built one of these migs in the 70’s when I was a kid. Along with 2 corsairs flying in formation hanging on fishing string above my bed. I think they were the only models that didn’t meet their fate with fire and lighter fluid. 😂
And/Or firecrackers.....
I used firecrackers!
Brother & I went from a Daisy Spittin' Image BB gun to fire crackers to finish off our car and plane models from/in the '60s. My MiG 21 was among the last to go and the BBs were enough.
BB gun here., in 1974...
My father flew on one of the many waves of Operation Bolo. Gen. Olds got 2 of his kills in my dads plane. Got pictures of Olds painting the 2nd star on the air diverter.
No one appreciated the efforts of the crews who prepared the aircraft than Olds! That goes for all the other pilots as well. You should be very proud of your father.
I flew this aircraft in 90s, it burnt a lot of oil for some reason
3rd Air Defence Wing, 45th Battalion
The book was incredible. Going from a Collegiate Hall of Famer to a WWII Ace to a Jet Acrobatist, to a Jet Squadron Commander who was the planner of this operation, Robin Olds was a Renaissance Man of the modern age. God bless him, and thank the Lord for his daughter to help bring his story to print. If you haven’t read it look it up. Great story.
J.B Stone and a few other squadron mates came up with Operation BOLO.
Olds had nothing to do with planning it. He just led it.
I was flying Hillsborough on Jan 2, 1967, a C-130 ABCCC out of Danang, RVN. We orbited for about six hours with the command and control team in the back. They were inside a trailer type command post directing or at least monitoring the strikes. Because we were on a different radio frequency we were not aware what was going on. We found out when we landed because we were greeted with an exited ground crew that was parking us after the mission. The guys in back celebrated with some adult beverages on the ramp.
No you werent
@@adenmitchell7633 😂
@@adenmitchell7633 Aden about a month later the VC rocketed Danang and destroyed the ABCCC airplane on the ramp. Look it up.
They then moved the C-130 mission to Thailand.
@@adenmitchell7633
Well, don't you just look like you're 12.
"Fighters have notoriously short lives"
The F-15 is 50 years old...
Slovakia and Yugoslavia were not former soviet territories.
As recently as 2023, a Mig-21 Bison shot down an F-16A !
And as proof Indian air force showed F 16 blown missile which downed an Indian jet, what a joke
I was in Afghanistan '02-'03, second rotation. There were three Mig 21s parked just off Disney Dr. on Bagram Airbase and a 21 fuselage on the ground behind the mail facility. The three needed just fuel and a pilot. The Afghans had a 21 mockup outside the main gate, about 15 feet off the ground.
03:11 Really 48,500 pounds? I saw last time a MIG 21 while on vacation in Croatia from a beach.
Great video! I've always thought the MiG-21 was a pretty cool plane.
You may think this is a great video because you don’t know anything about what really happened here. It is a poorly produced video full of errors, including the stupid claim that this fighter aircraft that has a maximum take off weight And 20,000 pounds can carry 48,500 pounds of ordinance. The narrator and producer of this channel are complete idiots
Why did the VAF eagerly fly into the trap? You don't mention the most important element that allowed this disastrous situation for the VAF. The EC-130 that monitored Vietnamese ground controller's frequency was not a secret. The VAF controllers communicated with the VAF pilots in the open so all communications were monitored routinely by USAF EW planes. The VAF was also using Soviet supplied EW equipment and knew that F-105 was using particular type of jamming pod that it carried on one of the under wing weapon station and could ID F-105.
So the trap worked because Col. Olds with discussions with his mechanics and electronic equipment support shop devised a plan to illegally modify the F-105D (Thud) electronic jammer pod, that was not compatible with F4, to F4 and hence make the VAF think that another raid of Thuds was coming. Instead what was waiting for the VAF Mig-21's were swarm of F4 that promptly cleaned the clock of the VAF.
The modification of the F4 to accept the F-105 pod was illegal because all modifications must go through first the bureaucratical proccess to be approved and then through actual process of modification and testing in a test squadron. This takes a long time and that's why Col. Olds, who was a very successful WWII, Korea and Vietnam war pilot and a little bit cowboy, just made decision to do the modification in the field and see if it would work.
It was a resounding success and hence the USAF leadership really did not have any avenue to punish Olds and instad he received praise and his reputation as a legend grew more.
The F-4s flying 105 flight paths also used 105 callsigns for the mission, and broadcast waypoint calls 'in the clear' ie not encrypted, its not known if that was picked up by the enemy but it possibly helped in the ruse
The fact that the Phantoms didn't have guns is borderline criminal, in my opinion. Olds being the old school dog fighter he was, probably could have done a lot more had the Phantoms had guns. He makes some excellent points on his book regarding these omissions. They relied way too heavily on missiles that really weren't consistently reliable enough, and it often sounds like kills were missed because of a lack of guns. It's a prime example of letting people with zero combat experience make decisions for and about men and equipment used in real world combat is a terrible idea. Olds' book really drives home what an absolute mess the Vietnam war was. Sad, honestly
I asked an F4 Phantom pilot if he ever flew a Mig-21 and he said yes, he loved it. His words were "you just kick the tires and light the fire", that's how easy it was to fly.
The later migs would wobble through the sky at low speeds... due to increased weight
.
At high speed it's like it's on rails however
No Russian built plane is that easy. They have quirky systems that require alot of pilot attention that distracts from actually flying the aircraft.
@@47colton I've spoken to a few americans and russians who both agree she was a beauty to fly only hindered by it's range
@@47colton because you’ve never flown one you have far more expertise in the matter than a pilot who has
The Fishbed still had many faults: range was a problem, basically useful for point defense only. Rear visibility was worse than an F-4. Flight controls did not have hydraulic boost (manual control only like a Cessna 172) which made high speed maneuvering difficult, lack of effective search radar. Its biggest advantage was small size (hard to see) which in the modern era has been overcome by stealth.
The MiG 21s (at best, a Generation 3.5 fighter with their upgrades) have not fought in a modern threat environment since Desert Storm over 30 years ago. In that conflict, they were swept from the skies by Gen 4 coalition aircraft. The 21s wouldn't survive 5 minutes in a modern air battle. They're hopelessly outmatched by today's modern fighters and IADS. They would truly earn their moniker of "The Flying Coffin".
We tied our pilots hands by having to visually identify the Migs before we could fire our missiles. Almost all our fighters at that time didn't have guns for close in fighting, and our missiles were designed for long range deployment for use against long range bombers.
Nor friend or foe identifiers I guess.
@@alfredobledel9358 it was the rules of engagement, the US really didn't want any blue on blue incidents where returning planes with damaged IFF got shot down.
Similar story with American bombers in Korea and Vietnam, they were often kept away from actually valuable targets so their bombs dropped on a whole lot of nothing
The war that was not supposed to end, that is the reason everyone's hands were tied, to ensure that America never won that war!
@@stankygeorge well kind of. Vietnam and Korea were both defensive wars, the US was upholding an international agreement that the countries would be split like Germany since they both were occupied by large numbers of communists. The US, their allies, and the UN all never really planned on removing the communists in the north since that's not what they agreed to. Vietnam was a bit of a grey area on who caused the war, the south wanted to oust the communists but the north was also arming soldiers and sending them south and launching terrorist attacks. Korea was entirely caused by the communists however. Neither war was started by America and they didn't really plan on fully remove the communists, hence why they never really committed to either war fully and kept calling them "limited wars", total war even without nukes could have lead to WW3 so the Soviets and Chinese never declared war and just sent "aid" and in return the US never fully committed to strategic bombing. The US and UN achieved their goals in Korea, and they more or less left Vietnam as they found it with a weak corrupt south and an aggresive expansionist north.
1:39
Wait, hold up. The MiG-19 didn't participate in Korea, that was the MiG-15.
The MiG-19, alongside the MiG-17 and 21, flew in Vietnam (though the 19 was in very small numbers compared to the other two).
It looks like a deadly tractor. I love the plane. They did keep it simple and very fast.
Robin Olds was a fighter pilot's pilot. I love the story of him addressing the cadets at the Air Force Academy when he was commondant. At the end of his initial address after taking command he walked off the stage and flipped them all the bird. He was just a total bad ass who stood in front of the White House press corp and told them that the bean counters in Washington were costing us in Vietnam.
no no no … Jesus was fighter pilot’s pilot who flipped us the bird that make us counting the beans in Vietnam
Under sold Col Olds.
Col Olds was a triple Ace and a legend of the time.
BOLO was his plan, he designed it, and lead it.
Former maintainer with 8th Fighter Wing. You are correct.
That's exactly what I thought when he mentioned him
The mig 21 is invincibly been taken hella L‘s for over 60 years still in circulation
My mate was an MiG 21 airframe technician in the Finnish Air Force in the '80s. He once told me that when you bought a MiG 21, you got the plane and a container with enough spares to build another and it was designed to be maintained by two old ladies with a hammer and screwdriver! :'D
Do the ladies have to be old😂😂😂
Used to knit flying suits & drogue chutes?
The incident between the Indian and Pakistan Air Forces a few years back would have been worthy to mention in this informative video on the Mig 21. The Chinese versions have more of a double delta design wing. Interesting to know how much this would improve the aircraft type
Better turn rate at the cost of speed for double delta wing.
Yeah. A mig 21 shot down a Pakistani F16 fighting falcon. But the US newer accepted that. I don't know why the US support Pakistani army they're supporting terrorism.
Mig21 represents Soviet aircraft design philosophy: small, light, nimble, simple, durable, ease of maintenance, and affordable.
Like the AK 47
It’s the best they can do, this is a communist nation with third rate capabilities. They cannot produce a sophisticated aircraft without stealing technology from Western free enterprise nations
Furthermore, we can see what this “simple“ design philosophy eventually culminated with. Over Lebanon in 1982, when the Israelis, over the span of a couple of days, destroyed somewhere around 80 Syrian operated, Russian built Mig Aircraft without a single loss of their own, using sophisticated F16s and F15s. You can only accomplish so much with this overrated “simple“ technology. Electronics matters, I can assure you of that as an electrical engineer that has designed many electronic and electro mechanical components for military aircraft. My view of the Mig 21, A flaming cigar, tail up, nose down, Going to it’s grave, exactly where it belongs.
@@steveperreira5850 aye, a time and place for all equipment, quantity is worse than quality, Israel proves this.
@@snikrepak Israel wouldn't have if it was bigger
What's so surprising about the deception is that the North Vietnamese should not have been able to PREDICT VERY ACCURATELY when and where the U.S. bombers would be on a regular basis. The USAF practice of using the exact same path, altitudes and times for attacks should never have been SOP, and was directly responsible for subsequent losses over Libya and Croatia. Each mission planned should ALWAYS be at the squadron level by pilots going directly into the battle, not from higher levels of command that are not the ones directly going into battle.
Exactly what I was waiting for.
Thank you so much !❤
I was in the military from late 90s to early 2000. We had that time around 130 MIG21. For me the most beautiful and most aggressive looking fighter jet ever produced.
Again Thank you so much
Mig 19 of China and Mig 21 of Russia were called flying coffins on account of issues with its engine and ejection seat.
I'm no historian but I do know much about my boyhood idol, then Col. Robin Olds. Growing up on the early 70's and while my friends, teammates and classmates all had athletes, police and firemen as their heroes, Col. Olds was mine. My uncle served with him at the 8tfw "Wolfpack" as a crew chief on a different aircraft. The 7th AF DID NOT come up with the idea, nor did they task Olds with the mission. Olds subordinates Capt. John B. Stone, 1st Lt. Joseph Hicks, 1st Lt. Ralph F. Wetterhahn, and Maj. James D. Covington came up with the idea. Olds took the idea to wing command for approval. Olds then broke the wing down in to 4 strike packages, no pilot briefed until 2 days before the mission. It originally was scrubbed on 1 January due to weather but was flown the very next day. The rest is history. Rest in peace good sir. Your country can't repay you, but we will never forget you.
Ooook I gotta interject here about the 'Nam situation.
Phantom losses were because of a problem with pilot training, not because the MiG was superior or the Phantom bad.
US Avaitors, be them from the Marines, Navy, or Airforce, simply were never trained how to dogfight.
Dan Pedersen and friends saw to that, and after 1971 the KD ratio went to, yes really, 24:1. Overall for the whole conflict the overall KD for *NAVY* Phantoms was 12:1.
The USAF, reluctant to adopt new tactics, went as low as 2:1.
It should be noted, that the F-8 Crusader always maintained an at least 10:1 KD in 'Nam because they were, at the time, the last group of pilots taught how to dogfight.
Incidentally, a conflict you are missing here that's a very important indication of just how impotent the MiG-21 had become was the Yom Kippur War, where Israeli Phantoms are attributed with *at least* 80 Flogger kills, potentially more unconfirmed. This is *directly* because of the influence of Top Gun, as Israeli pilots had been present during the initial creation of the program at Miramar in the late 60s while transitioning into the Phantom, as Miramar was the home of the RAG, or Reserve Air Group. The RAG is where new pilots were trained to replace losses, and international pilots ( notably the Britts and Israelis ) were trained to fly the type their country was adopting.
Coming back to the point.
The grounding of the MiG-21s wasn't because of Bolo, it was because of Top Gun. The US Navy found that the VNPAF would, upon realizing they were fighting Navy/Marine Phantoms, just run away. Interviews with former servicemen from the VNPAF after the fact confirmed that they thought the Navy was running a heavily upgraded version of the Phantom. They literally couldn't understand why they were suddenly getting their asses kicked by the same fighters that 2 years before they were scrapping.
You can't really tell the story of the fight in the air over Viet Nam without telling the Top Gun story, the USAF really didn't do any innovation aside from the F4-E with the integral gun ( the Navy opted for the J with better radar ) and the Agile Eagle program, neither of which actually fixed the problem. The USN constantly outscored the USAF with a very similar airframe because of better training and tactics.
48500 pounds of armament? It's Mig 21? Or B-1?
10:11 You said that Yugoslavia was a soviet territory. Yugoslavia was not a member of Warsaw Packt, like Slovakia, but Independent country with aircrafts both from East and West.
I think a few clips of the Su-9 snuck in there...
Mig-21 pilots preferred... Whaaat! You are suggesting Soviet (or Russians today) fighter pilots to have say on doctrine. Thats hilarious, and in sooo many ways wrong.
Legendary plane. All aviation museums are full of those and I'm surprised each and every time how darn small those things are :)
Yugoslavia was NOT a Soviet territory. This is just untrue- Just because it was a socialist state, it doesn't mean that it falls under the Soviet Union. It was independent from both blocks and had it's own version of socialism, a much more open one with more freedom and prosperity. You make good content, but when I see a flop like that, I ask myself: "what else is not correct"?
3:10 Did I mishear or was that 48,500Lb of weapons? That's over 20 tons! Seems unlikely.
Yeah, no way. Maybe he meant 4850 lbs? Max takeoff weight is about 10 tons.
Sheer production number is the only thing that kept them in the game. After WW2, the US was able to capture German ball bearing technology. Russian designs after WW2 used engines that could fly for tens of hours without overhaul, due to inferior bearings.
Yugoslavia is a former Soviet teritorry?
Yugoslavia was never a part of the Soviet territory. So many content creators make this mistake based on an quick assumptions. As a military historian you should know that Soviets never had an access to Adriatic see because of Yugoslavia and if they did they would have a sea border with Italy and the cold war would probably played out differently.
An Indian mig 21 shot down a F16 a few years ago, speaks volumes of the aircraft
No it didn't.
Feel free to actually prove it.
Small adjustment at 10:12, Yugoslavia wasn't ever a "Soviet Territory"
My dad was likely one of the Air Force intelligence guys in those C130’s. The Air Force put him through Chinese language classes at Yale in ~1960.
the only reason why the north Vietnamese air force ever had scecead is because most of them were piloted by soviet pilots who could pass for Vietnamese people and the only way that they could shoot down an. F.4.fantom is spray the sky with ante.aircraft fire 🔥 fun fact the north Vietnamese wasted over 20 sa.2 .s.a.m. s just to shoot down just one. F.4.fantom because they fly to fast
A weapon load of 48000lbs seems very unlikely given a Lancaster could carry only 10000lbs and a B2 Spirit 40000lbs.
This channel isn’t exactly Accuracy R Us, a lot of similar facepalm moments are here….😧
@@brianjones7660 This channel f**ks up a LOT. Their researchers find great videos, but they have very little reading comprehension and no common sense.
A (slightly modified) Lancaster could carry the 22,000lb Grand Slam earthquake bomb. Normal service load was typically around 12,000lbs.
There wouldn't have been a problem with the North Vietnamese MiGs if the USAF and USN had been allowed to attack the airfields they were stationed at.
During Vietnam war, US air to air missiles had a 50% failure rate, not locking on to target, rockets railing to ignite just falling off the wing, etc.
That’s right. The heat rising off the Vietnamese jungle often “distracted” the heat seeking Sidewinders. This put the Americans at a huge disadvantage because they lacked guns….but the MiG’s did. American fighter performance during Rolling Thunder led to the founding of the Top Gun School. That, plus the addition of guns to the Phantoms, prevented an aerial wipeout.
American ingenuity at its finest "they won't need guns! We have these missles that can seek!"
Little did he know, he fucked up.
3:10 48,500 pounds of ordinance? lol who knew the MiG-21 could carry more than twice the weight of it's max takeoff weight?! (sarcasm). Also, Robin Olds came up with the idea in the first place so the Air Force didn't "choose him to lead"
Stringfellow Hawke and Airwolf took out most of the Mig 21's between 1984 and 1987.
1:10 on screen not mikoyan bureau (its yakovlev). 3:36 on screen not mig-21 (its su-17). 10:34 they not in use neither in russia nor ukraine (not even for training)
The first time I saw a MiG 21 in a book , I said, now that design just makes sense.
It always reminded me of an old three quarter ton Dodge pickup truck.
A lethal , heavy duty as hell , flying , Dodge Pickup Truck.
What a design and what a jet.
Great analogy
You missed a lot of details. Not only were the F-4s flying the same routes as the F-105s, they were using the same radio frequencies, the same call signs and carried the same radar jamming pods. The North Vietnamese air defense structure was fooled from top to bottom.
They are fantastic to see at a air show. Saw the Romanian one at RIAT in 2019. One of the loudest aircraft and one of the most fantastic single displays to. (Next to the Eurofighters and the Ukrainian Flanker)
I saw this display too and completely agree with you. The Fishbed is a handsome looking aircraft IMHO.
@@andywhite40 I think almost all of the soviet/Russian jets look incredibly good. Don't know what exactly it is, but they got something special in their designs...
we had them airworthy still in 2002 . two mig 29 at afterburner start were less noisy as a single mig 21.
You know this is a high quality work when the dude says (near the end) that Yugoslavia was a former Soviet territory.
I like the mig 21 fishbed such classic cold war aircraft
Just like we overestimated Russia, we shouldn't underestimate Australia, and especially Japan. It's been a good while since the Japanese were at war, but they left an impression that's hard to forget, and historically they tend to hit WAY above their weight class. I'm glad they're on our side this time.
it's probably the most shotdown jetfighter in history
Fishbed wasn't that aircraft's call sign, it was its NATO designator.
In Czech Republic is even famous band named Mig21
Please use metric, or at least provide the metric equivalent to the figures you mention in the video.
At circa 3:10... 48500lbs - that is around 20 tons of armaments. I think the actual figure is somewhat closer to 4800lbs - around 2.5 tons. Other than that, a very interesting doccie.
f4 was superior in almost every aspect minus a turning fight compared with mig 21's, thanks to their superior electronics and radar which could detect a mig at 30-40 km away they rarely get caught in a close range fight.
Robin Olds was such a legend 🇺🇸
Soviet Union dissolved in 1991 and Slovakia wasn’t a country until 1993, so Slovakia wasn’t a “Soviet Territory”. Even the predecessor Czechoslovakia was an independent country. As was Yugoslavia. (The Georgian SSR was)
No offense intended, but anyone who thinks that Czechoslovakia was truly independent needs to look up the 1968 Czech uprising, which was brutally put down by the Soviets.
This is one fantastic jet. It has always been a favorite of mine.
FYI - Yugoslavia was not 'a former Soviet territory'... Yugoslavia apart USSR and its allies in 1948... Mig-21 was introduced in 60's
I think the Mig21, and especially the Chengdu J7E are some of the most beautiful timeless designs.
Slovakia and Yugoslavia were never a part of the USSR. Additionally, Yugoslavia was not even a Warsaw pact member. And also, Russia and Ukraine don't use the MiG-21. India does, but they are highly modernised. In Europe Croatia and Romania still use it. However, Romania will phase them out soon in favor of their F-16 MLU 😁
This is a good history channel. Two thumbs up 👍👍.
Just make sure you fact check before believing anything he says.
The SU-7 was better just flown by worse pilots, middle eastern. And Yugoslavia was not a USSR territory.
Hello, DS. The M-21 is a beautiful jet. Some aspects of its design can be found in modern delta wing fighters. Anyway, thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
Yugoslavia was never a Soviet territory 11:56
We still use them in the Romanian AF and I don't think they are going away any time soon. We use them together with romanian F16's and now basically together with every NATO fighter stationed on romanian airports. Probably an amazing sight to see a MIG21 Lancer having the latest western jets as team mates. The big problem with them is maintenance and old age of the airframe, this being the reason for all crashes and pilot death.
Well F16 was inspired by MiG 21.
no. maintenance is second to none.
Fatal crashes occured at low altitude and low speed, both of which are tricky to fly in the 21 as it barely has any wings.
The 21 should not be flown at low speed such as you see yearly at BIAS, or RIAT. It loses altitude quickly in turns. That is if you can make it turn.
It's just not safe. The engine is also not meant to be flown as such, as it is a turbojet, rather than a turbofan.
The 21 was designed to be a close range interceptor and was very good at that. The Romanians turned it into a multirole. That is when problems started.
Yugoslavia - a former soviet territory? 😳
Great video. It still flies in Croatia
Yeah.
Slovakia (actually Cekoslovakia...) and Yugoslavia were NOT former Soviet territories. They were independent Communist European countries.