Funny how councils up and down the country have there own personal arsonist and they never catch them. I once passed a beautiful old timber framed building on the way to Blackpool/ Fleetwood it was right next to the motorway I couldn’t see much of the building as it was partially hid behind trees but you could see that the roof had fell in. I have no idea if that building is still there though ? 🤷♂️
Hi Gary, and apologies for the late reply. Yes despite the damage and natural decay you could still see that it had once been a grand Victorian house and someones pride and joy back in the day. I'm just glad that I managed to get inside and document the interior before the pyromaniacs arrived. Great to hear that you enjoyed the video and thanks for commenting.
Hi Rachel, glad that you enjoyed the video. 👍 Yes we all appear to be over our Mablethorpe Covid adventure thankfully although it took us about 3 to 4 weeks to fully get back to where we was before we caught. Hopefully moving forward I'll be able to get back to making videos again, many thanks for taking the time to comment and all the best.
Great video, thanks very much. I delivered Carl Lillis's polling card for years. Doubt he voted for this council who tried to hound him out of his home. Good on him for standing his ground.
Hi effing hell, it's taken me about 3 to 4 weeks after coming down with the Kungflu to get back to where I was before I caught it but thankfully we all appear to have fully recovered now with no long lasting symptoms so with a bit of luck I can get back to making videos again. 👍
sunderland is the same, so i do wonder if the councils do that sort of thing, just to get around the listing, deem it dangerous and then they have an excuse to flatten it. Councils will get away with anything if you don't fight for things, A local listed school, they wanted wanted to flatten the full lot, to make way for a new road, only part of it was flattened, and the other half was set on fire, The locals were like, yeah the councils trying to get the listing removed on that part to, so they can flatten it,
@@procta2343 I think it is a friend in Salford was telling me of a old pub which was a listed building and the Council wanted it gone, next thing it goes up in a arson attack, burnt out then deemed unsafe by the council giving them the powers to demolish it ! Also in wigan a good few years ago, there was a large woodyard, but B&Q wanted to build a hyper store but the owner refused to sell, It was set on fire, the insurance company paid out and it was completely rebuild better than before within a couple of months guess what it was burnt down to the ground again, this time it wasn't rebuilt and to this day a B&Q is on that land.
@@darrentaylor6172 another one was a local mental hospital, it was listed building, but the council wanted that down to put houses on it. They managed to get it delisted and the hospital did go in disrepair, from been stripped of its copper etc, My dad was grounds man for the hospital grounds, as there was more than one hospital on the ground. My dad told me not to go inside it, as there were floors missing, due to them been ripped up etc, parts of it was set of fire too. Looked well spooky when me and my cousin walked around it with our bikes, due to the sun light shining on the windows. 10 years ago they started to finally pull it down, the last parts of it, that were still in operational use, was pulled down in 2018. and a housing estate that should have been put up back in 2000 is now sitting on there. Councils have a nasty habit of not securing building like this on in the video, and getting it on the market straight way. They would rather just let this sort of thing happen so they can get their own way and use the land. No the wonder history is vanishing fast in some areas of the uk, Sunderland no history left, no remains of the ship yards at all now.
Hi Roy another gem pal. Worked in Ince for a good few years as you no and spent a lot of time up n down Westwood lane and cemetery never knew about this place. Such a shame that some folk can’t just take pictures and leave only foot prints just have some respect that it was once someone’s home and as they say an English man’s home is his castle. Defo gonna be demolished now such a sad end.
Born within 500 yards of this house in lower Ince all of us kids used to play in the cornfield near by in the 1950s still can recall the steam train taking coal across Westwood Lane to the coal depot magic days 😀
Hi John, sadly Westwood Hall is no more as the burnt out shell was recently demolished despite having a Grade II listed status. I suppose Wigan Council got their way in the end as they never really wanted Westwood Hall just the land that it sat on although Carl Lillis forced them to play the long game before they could send the bulldozers in.. Regarding the old Coal Depot on Warrington Road the remains of the rail tracks that led to it could be seen in Eton Terrace until it finally got semi tarmacked a number of years back.
@@MrHsHotPot can.remember sitting in Westwood Lane popping tar bubbles in the road in summer no climate change then nice summers cold winters and lovely people
only takes a few days if that, once someone gets wind of a place like that is derelict, and its stripped of all its copper etc. I recon someone has put a match to the sofa and the full works has gone up. Sometimes you do wonder if its the council doing this sort of trick, setting the place a fire so that they can get around the listed tendency. Been a few places like this around where I have had the same treatment. An old farm house that sat for years a burned out wreck, the council flattened the house, and the land went back to nature. Also an old school, was also set a light, which was listed. The council have flattened half of it, to make away for a new road. The other half was damaged by fire oddly enough, not long after. The council sharp let some one fix the remaining part of the school up, due to locals questioning about the fire.
Hi Procta, and apologies for the late reply. As you say it dosen't take long for someone to get wind that a building like Westwood Hall has become empty and due to it's remote location and the fact that it's antique features were well documented on various local history websites it became a sitting duck for thieves and vandals. Add into the mix that the current owners Wigan Council appear to be indifferent as to the buildings fate making only token gestures to secure it and it's future looks very bleak indeed.
@@MrHsHotPot Hi pal, i recon the local council will get it De listed, by stating its unsafe. Then flatten it and probably extend next door or put an industrial estate on the grounds, which is a favourite around here at the moment.
Bittersweet upload, Mr H et al. Thank you. I remember the blacked-out 'fanlights' in the tenements of Springburn, Glasgow N1, circa 1957: Remnants/reminders of World War Two air raid precautions. As you are aware, Mr and Mrs H, *wigan local history org* has more history of the Hall, and a photograph of Carl standing at his front door. Rest In Peace. All the best. Stay free. Rab 🎲 ⏳ 🕊
Interesting video, thanks. It brought back memories, my aunt and family lived in the back part for a while, would be late 50's/early 60's. My aunt did some work for Mrs McAvoy and got the accommodation in return, I recall visiting a few times as a kid, it was like an adventure playground, sad to see it in that state.
Glad you and family are ok now Mr H, It was i believe first owned by 3 sisters who contributed ie benfactors to large parts of higher inc and lower ince areas from around the mid to late 1800's (i could be wrong).
Hi the owd git, I only know the history of Westwood Hall from the time the Kay family owned it which was the mid 1800's onwards. The Kays made their money which probably paid for the Victorian addition to the property from owning a drift mine which used to be located in the field next to Westwood Hall and the bricked up entrance could still be seen up to the early 2000's if you knew where to look for it and then later on from the rents paid by the tenants of twenty terraced houses built in two rows that they owned on the other side of Westwood Hall known officially on maps as 'Westwood Cottages' or Little Westwood' but known to locals like myself as 'The Kays Houses'.
Hi Ajay, did your mother used to live in one of the 'Kay's Houses' or in Westwood Hall itself? Sadly with the building being left unsecured since Carl's passing it was only a matter of time before someone set fire to it and it is now thouroughly gutted inside, which is a real shame after Carl fought so hard to get it Grade II listed status and save it from the bulldozers in 2007 not to mention the hours he spent patching up the place probably at his own cost. Hopefully Wigan Council will now sell what's left to someone who will restore it back to it's former glory rather than demolish it.
It was Carl's cottage itself, she was in number 44 then 37, it is such a shame, unfortunately I do think I will be demolished, I got told there was a few surveyors having a good look around the week before it got burnt, abit suspicious if you ask me. I've been watching your videos for a few years now surprised to find out your originally from lower ince, keep up the good work!
I'll be honest I was amazed to learn that Wigan Council had made no attempt to secure Carl's cottage after he passed away and it seems that they almost invited this to happen by failing to act. However after talking to the contractor that they sent to eventually secure the building after fire he said that Wigan Council wasn't legally allowed to enter the property despite them owning it unless it was a public safety issue and that they had to go through legal channels to reclaim the cottage first and possessions etc still being in there. Glad to hear that you enjoy my videos and many thanks for taking the time to comment. 👍
I Was Mrs McAvoy Head Gardener early 70s You Had to clean petrol lawn mover before. she would pay me 2 shilling a day and a glass of orange. my 2 helper only got water She had brand new Vauxhall car in the out Building an old guy used to come on Wednesdays and take her out to collect the rant on all the property she owned. VERY SAD TO SEE IT LIKE THIS.. Wigan councils and there coronas had This house taken off listed building list.
Hi David, and apologies for the late reply. From what I have heard from people that used to live in the Kay's Houses Mrs McAvoy was a nice enough lady if a little bit eccentric. However her mother Annie Kay was a different kettle of fish and was supposedly a really formidable woman back in the day and the Kays Houses tenants lived in a mixture of both respect and fear of her. Even going as far as to go up to 'the big house' when she passed away to pay their respects after she was laid out Victorian style in the front parlour which is something unheard of today. It was also she who paid her child gardeners with apples. Your story about the brand new Vauxhall car in the out building triggered a memory of a story that I'd heard years ago but sadly with the passage of time had forgotten. As you say it's very sad to see it like this and sadly there have been more fires and damage done to the property since making this video so it is only a matter of time before Wigan Council flatten what's left of Westwood Hall and Carl's cottage or it starts to collapse in on itself.
Hi Lee, and good to hear from you again. 👍 Yes sadly Wigan Council quietly flattened the burnt out shell of Westwood Hall in November last year. Bizarrely the old well has been left behind and is still open so be careful if you go over there for a mooch especially in summer when it will be hard to see.
Funny how councils up and down the country have there own personal arsonist and they never catch them. I once passed a beautiful old timber framed building on the way to Blackpool/ Fleetwood it was right next to the motorway I couldn’t see much of the building as it was partially hid behind trees but you could see that the roof had fell in. I have no idea if that building is still there though ? 🤷♂️
I bet that was a grand house back in the day
, Such a shame to see it in that state Mr H. Thanks for a very interesting and a sad video.
Hi Gary, and apologies for the late reply. Yes despite the damage and natural decay you could still see that it had once been a grand Victorian house and someones pride and joy back in the day.
I'm just glad that I managed to get inside and document the interior before the pyromaniacs arrived.
Great to hear that you enjoyed the video and thanks for commenting.
@@MrHsHotPot 👍
Glad to see you back and returned to good health.
NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK BIG H! LOVE ALL THIS 0LD ENGLISH HISTORY! 🇬🇧
You never disappoint us Mr H. Hoping you and your family are all well. 💖❤️💖
Hi Rachel, glad that you enjoyed the video. 👍
Yes we all appear to be over our Mablethorpe Covid adventure thankfully although it took us about 3 to 4 weeks to fully get back to where we was before we caught.
Hopefully moving forward I'll be able to get back to making videos again, many thanks for taking the time to comment and all the best.
@@MrHsHotPot All the best to Yours and You, Mr H (and Rachel et al.!).
Stay free. Rab 🍻 😎 🎲 ⏳ 🕊
Great video, thanks very much. I delivered Carl Lillis's polling card for years. Doubt he voted for this council who tried to hound him out of his home. Good on him for standing his ground.
Oi Oi Mr H, Been Waiting For Your Next Video, Been A While, Hope Your All Good.
Hi effing hell, it's taken me about 3 to 4 weeks after coming down with the Kungflu to get back to where I was before I caught it but thankfully we all appear to have fully recovered now with no long lasting symptoms so with a bit of luck I can get back to making videos again. 👍
Thanks enjoyed it, another part of our past, lost its always a great shame.
Strange how the buildings that wigan council want rid of have a tendency to get torched, end up burned out shells, Dangerous then get demolished.
sunderland is the same, so i do wonder if the councils do that sort of thing, just to get around the listing, deem it dangerous and then they have an excuse to flatten it. Councils will get away with anything if you don't fight for things, A local listed school, they wanted wanted to flatten the full lot, to make way for a new road, only part of it was flattened, and the other half was set on fire, The locals were like, yeah the councils trying to get the listing removed on that part to, so they can flatten it,
@@procta2343 I think it is a friend in Salford was telling me of a old pub which was a listed building and the Council wanted it gone, next thing it goes up in a arson attack, burnt out then deemed unsafe by the council giving them the powers to demolish it !
Also in wigan a good few years ago, there was a large woodyard, but B&Q wanted to build a hyper store but the owner refused to sell, It was set on fire, the insurance company paid out and it was completely rebuild better than before within a couple of months guess what it was burnt down to the ground again, this time it wasn't rebuilt and to this day a B&Q is on that land.
@@darrentaylor6172 another one was a local mental hospital, it was listed building, but the council wanted that down to put houses on it. They managed to get it delisted and the hospital did go in disrepair, from been stripped of its copper etc, My dad was grounds man for the hospital grounds, as there was more than one hospital on the ground. My dad told me not to go inside it, as there were floors missing, due to them been ripped up etc, parts of it was set of fire too. Looked well spooky when me and my cousin walked around it with our bikes, due to the sun light shining on the windows. 10 years ago they started to finally pull it down, the last parts of it, that were still in operational use, was pulled down in 2018. and a housing estate that should have been put up back in 2000 is now sitting on there. Councils have a nasty habit of not securing building like this on in the video, and getting it on the market straight way. They would rather just let this sort of thing happen so they can get their own way and use the land. No the wonder history is vanishing fast in some areas of the uk, Sunderland no history left, no remains of the ship yards at all now.
Hi Roy another gem pal. Worked in Ince for a good few years as you no and spent a lot of time up n down Westwood lane and cemetery never knew about this place. Such a shame that some folk can’t just take pictures and leave only foot prints just have some respect that it was once someone’s home and as they say an English man’s home is his castle. Defo gonna be demolished now such a sad end.
Born within 500 yards of this house in lower Ince all of us kids used to play in the cornfield near by in the 1950s still can recall the steam train taking coal across Westwood Lane to the coal depot magic days 😀
Hi John, sadly Westwood Hall is no more as the burnt out shell was recently demolished despite having a Grade II listed status.
I suppose Wigan Council got their way in the end as they never really wanted Westwood Hall just the land that it sat on although Carl Lillis forced them to play the long game before they could send the bulldozers in..
Regarding the old Coal Depot on Warrington Road the remains of the rail tracks that led to it could be seen in Eton Terrace until it finally got semi tarmacked a number of years back.
@@MrHsHotPot can.remember sitting in Westwood Lane popping tar bubbles in the road in summer no climate change then nice summers cold winters and lovely people
Brilliant again Mr h.such a shame it ended up like that.
only takes a few days if that, once someone gets wind of a place like that is derelict, and its stripped of all its copper etc. I recon someone has put a match to the sofa and the full works has gone up. Sometimes you do wonder if its the council doing this sort of trick, setting the place a fire so that they can get around the listed tendency. Been a few places like this around where I have had the same treatment. An old farm house that sat for years a burned out wreck, the council flattened the house, and the land went back to nature. Also an old school, was also set a light, which was listed. The council have flattened half of it, to make away for a new road. The other half was damaged by fire oddly enough, not long after. The council sharp let some one fix the remaining part of the school up, due to locals questioning about the fire.
Hi Procta, and apologies for the late reply. As you say it dosen't take long for someone to get wind that a building like Westwood Hall has become empty and due to it's remote location and the fact that it's antique features were well documented on various local history websites it became a sitting duck for thieves and vandals.
Add into the mix that the current owners Wigan Council appear to be indifferent as to the buildings fate making only token gestures to secure it and it's future looks very bleak indeed.
@@MrHsHotPot Hi pal, i recon the local council will get it De listed, by stating its unsafe. Then flatten it and probably extend next door or put an industrial estate on the grounds, which is a favourite around here at the moment.
Fantastic video once again.
Thank you.
Bittersweet upload, Mr H et al. Thank you.
I remember the blacked-out 'fanlights' in the tenements of Springburn, Glasgow N1, circa 1957: Remnants/reminders of World War Two air raid precautions.
As you are aware, Mr and Mrs H, *wigan local history org* has more history of the Hall, and a photograph of Carl standing at his front door. Rest In Peace.
All the best. Stay free. Rab 🎲 ⏳ 🕊
Interesting video, thanks. It brought back memories, my aunt and family lived in the back part for a while, would be late 50's/early 60's. My aunt did some work for Mrs McAvoy and got the accommodation in return, I recall visiting a few times as a kid, it was like an adventure playground, sad to see it in that state.
Great video Mr H really enjoyed it.
NICE 1 MR H .. I remember the house as it was and the Kay's houses at side of it with me being an owd incer 👈😎👉
What a shame people have to be so destructive. Lovely old house ruined..
only takes a matter of days once some nasty arsehole gets wind of it been derelict, then they are at it, stripping the place to an inch of its life.
This is very interesting to watch . Your information is very interesting & your great to listen too , keep up the good work .
Glad you and family are ok now Mr H, It was i believe first owned by 3 sisters who contributed ie benfactors to large parts of higher inc and lower ince areas from around the mid to late 1800's (i could be wrong).
Hi the owd git, I only know the history of Westwood Hall from the time the Kay family owned it which was the mid 1800's onwards.
The Kays made their money which probably paid for the Victorian addition to the property from owning a drift mine which used to be located in the field next to Westwood Hall and the bricked up entrance could still be seen up to the early 2000's if you knew where to look for it and then later on from the rents paid by the tenants of twenty terraced houses built in two rows that they owned on the other side of Westwood Hall known officially on maps as 'Westwood Cottages' or Little Westwood' but known to locals like myself as 'The Kays Houses'.
Very interesting Mr H. A sad end to what would have been a beautiful house.
Blessings Upon Your 👪
My mother used to live there, she was so upset when it got set alight, we are related to the Lillis's
Hi Ajay, did your mother used to live in one of the 'Kay's Houses' or in Westwood Hall itself?
Sadly with the building being left unsecured since Carl's passing it was only a matter of time before someone set fire to it and it is now thouroughly gutted inside, which is a real shame after Carl fought so hard to get it Grade II listed status and save it from the bulldozers in 2007 not to mention the hours he spent patching up the place probably at his own cost.
Hopefully Wigan Council will now sell what's left to someone who will restore it back to it's former glory rather than demolish it.
It was Carl's cottage itself, she was in number 44 then 37, it is such a shame, unfortunately I do think I will be demolished, I got told there was a few surveyors having a good look around the week before it got burnt, abit suspicious if you ask me. I've been watching your videos for a few years now surprised to find out your originally from lower ince, keep up the good work!
I'll be honest I was amazed to learn that Wigan Council had made no attempt to secure Carl's cottage after he passed away and it seems that they almost invited this to happen by failing to act.
However after talking to the contractor that they sent to eventually secure the building after fire he said that Wigan Council wasn't legally allowed to enter the property despite them owning it unless it was a public safety issue and that they had to go through legal channels to reclaim the cottage first and possessions etc still being in there.
Glad to hear that you enjoy my videos and many thanks for taking the time to comment. 👍
Nice to see you back mr H enjoyed the video 👍
Who was your mother ?
Sadly the hall has been torn down today
I Was Mrs McAvoy Head Gardener early 70s You Had to clean petrol lawn mover before. she would pay me 2 shilling a day and a glass of orange. my 2 helper only got water She had brand new Vauxhall car in the out Building an old guy used to come on Wednesdays and take her out to collect the rant on all the property she owned. VERY SAD TO SEE IT LIKE THIS.. Wigan councils and there coronas had This house taken off listed building list.
Hi David, and apologies for the late reply. From what I have heard from people that used to live in the Kay's Houses Mrs McAvoy was a nice enough lady if a little bit eccentric.
However her mother Annie Kay was a different kettle of fish and was supposedly a really formidable woman back in the day and the Kays Houses tenants lived in a mixture of both respect and fear of her. Even going as far as to go up to 'the big house' when she passed away to pay their respects after she was laid out Victorian style in the front parlour which is something unheard of today. It was also she who paid her child gardeners with apples.
Your story about the brand new Vauxhall car in the out building triggered a memory of a story that I'd heard years ago but sadly with the passage of time had forgotten.
As you say it's very sad to see it like this and sadly there have been more fires and damage done to the property since making this video so it is only a matter of time before Wigan Council flatten what's left of Westwood Hall and Carl's cottage or it starts to collapse in on itself.
Mobile Phone records would shed a bit of light on it if we had a credible police force that were bothered but sadly not these days,
The council should be made to put the building back to its former grandeur. Probably going to be a refugee centre when they build back better. NOT
it's in the way of the "business park office development".. like we haven't got enough of those sitting empty already.
I see wigan clowncil have flattened it to floor now, such a shame
Hi Lee, and good to hear from you again. 👍
Yes sadly Wigan Council quietly flattened the burnt out shell of Westwood Hall in November last year.
Bizarrely the old well has been left behind and is still open so be careful if you go over there for a mooch especially in summer when it will be hard to see.