I dropped out of college because I couldn't maintain my scholarship and I didnt wanna take out private loans. The place that I was interning at (through my college) offered to hire me full time if I decided to drop out and I took the opportunity. I do wish I could have finished schooling, but I was absolutely 100% vindicated in my decision to not take private loans for the last 2 years. I have an amazing career and have learned so much in and out of school. Maybe someday I will go back for the piece of paper, but it will be with financial security.
I paused my college classes for an internship that turned into a full time career as well. I'll go back eventually. They were online classes anyway, so I can always just take a few classes here and there.
@@thomasj3421 this is in incorrect or at the very least not correct for most people. Many schools accept transfer credits, and credits don’t often “expire”. Schools may change the requirements, so even though I “had a year left” my née requirements today might look different, but they aren’t gonna make me retake cs101 if I find a school that will transfer credits from my previous school (or go back to the school I dropped out of) Plenty of people go back to finish their degree years or decades later. It isn’t even that uncommon.
The problem I'm finding with billing myself as a full-stack instead of just front-end is that typically I will see companies looking for the depth of someone who's specialized in everything at a fancy level, rather than having a mix of capabilities. In the last job I had, which was well over a year ago now, the backend guy was clearly a backend guy who could dip into frontend a bit, which is clearly what you'd expect or vice versa. He basically had 7 years of writing Django endpoints and a bit of exposure to React, whereas I can jump into probably any insane JavaScript codebase and reason enough about Django. But to be doing both at the same depth is asking for two specialists in one
Completely agree, I'm working on a big web app and when I get too stuck on something (for 1-2 days) then I'll just go on some leet code or change language to just switch a little the way I approach problems.
when you say fullstack what do you mean by that? like what are the duties and langs you use regularly ? are you the only dev working on it or is there a team?
Introduction and Survey Overview - 00:00:00 Survey Participation and Reach - 00:00:29 Technology Usage Stats - 00:00:54 Top 10 Countries Comparison - 00:01:25 Stack Overflow Account Ownership and Community Bias - 00:02:22 Educational Background and Coding Learning Methods - 00:03:25 Full Stack Developers and Technology Trends - 00:06:42 Most Popular Technologies and JavaScript Dominance - 00:08:15 Database Usage and Learning Trends - 00:09:16 Cloud Platform Preferences - 00:10:57 Web Frameworks and Technologies - 00:12:32 Embedded Technologies and Other Frameworks - 00:15:01 Tools and Development Environments - 00:16:09 Asynchronous and Synchronous Tools Usage - 00:18:03 Operating System Preferences - 00:20:15 AI Tools in Development - 00:21:11 Admired and Desired Technologies - 00:22:19 Database Preferences and Migration Trends - 00:23:52 Cloud Platform Preferences (Detailed) - 00:24:28 Web Framework Preferences and Trends - 00:25:18 Other Tools and Libraries - 00:26:52 IDE Preferences - 00:27:52 Asynchronous and Synchronous Tools (Detailed) - 00:28:50 AI Tools Sentiment and Usage - 00:29:21 Salary Insights by Technology - 00:37:17 Salary Changes and Economic Impact - 00:39:12 AI in Workflow and Future Trends - 00:40:18 Employment Status and Geography - 00:44:31 Work Environment and Company Size - 00:45:03 Salary by Developer Type and Location - 00:46:31 Salary and Experience by Developer Type - 00:48:38 Purchasing Technology and Influence - 00:49:42 Build vs. Buy Preferences - 00:51:20 Adoption of New Tools and Technologies - 00:52:26 Coding Outside of Work and Community Involvement - 00:53:27 Stack Overflow Usage and Community Insights - 00:53:58 Professional Developers and Experience Distribution - 00:55:17 Knowledge Sharing and Workplace Dynamics - 00:56:45 Tech Stack Complexity and Challenges - 00:58:43 Job Industry, Satisfaction, and Factors - 00:59:48 Final Thoughts and Wrap-up - 01:01:43
Most "Full stacks" i know are frontend and the rare backend "full stack" ive met just know like how to do something super basic but is mostly backend. generally i see it as a made up term meant to abuse devs. one of the reasons i avoid at all costs being "full stack" Keeping up with Networking, System admin,aws, gcp, azure. devops, cicd, go, rust, python, nodejs, terraform, salt and ansible, databases, security and reverse engineering. is already enough without having to keep up with Front end as well moves as fast or faster then everything else combined
@@SBDavin being full stack doesn't include terraform, ansible and all those devops stack. You don't even need multiple languages. It can be just JavaScript. This is some gatekeeping mission copium. You don't even need to know deployment from scratch, you need just enough to deploy. A lot of backend colleagues don't even know much devops. It's not necessary in most cases because deploys happen through CI/CD pipeline. These days there's no need to even have access to the BE server or db. Local dev env is docker and already configured for testing. You just can't take it that some people can build pretty UIs and still build backend apis.
@@aberbaCodes On the contrary, I hope we developers can create solutions on the front and back end tiers. As you eluded, a matching technology can be used to create solutions using the same technologies (eg. React server, Blazor, etc.). Unfortunately, most current architectures are still mixing different technologies to complete the stack. My experiences with these differing platforms has been seeing most developers excelling primarily in one of the technology tiers.
Most are frontend dev because most of the work will be in the frontend, in my apps once the api is established the frontend takes 5x times more effort than the backend
I got started in UI programming with Windows 3.1 and the Windows API. I've done Delphi, MFC, OWL, WinForms and a bunch of other UI libraries before pretty much all user interfaces work has become web. The very idea of "front-end" vs "full-stack" is foreign to me. You develop the application as a whole. If you have a network jump to the browser doesn't mean you can skip part of it. This is an implementation detail! Customers don't run just half an application, the whole thing has to work together.
I like you theo. Thanks for all this amazing free content. Greetings from a Full Stack Web Dev from Portugal. Just started my first project with the T3 Stack and it's amazing!
Being a "full-stack dev" for me is all about being able to write code in one of the frontend & backend languages at the same time. However, you usually are better at one than the other. Being a "back-end dev" is not all about being able to write code in one certain backend language only, but it's also about being able to write and understand ci/cd, devops stuff, security etc. This in my opinion explains the salary gap between a back-end dev and a full-stack dev
meta frameworks abstract a lot of things away. i had a coworker that couldn't figure out how to serve an html file but was considered "full stack". in general there's a very clear skill gap in my experience. the best full stack engineers i've worked with had years of experience exclusively working on backend. most full stack engineers started with frontend.
I'm currently working as fullstack, and being able to debug a problem through the whole stack is liberating. Not having to wait for a backend dev to fix some endpoint is very valuable as well.
To answer why MySql more popular when regards to learning databases. MySQL is strictly a relational database whilst PostgreSQL is an object-relational database management system (ORDBMS) meaning it's easier to teach students about database on a simpler level
Had applied for a Back-End role. It evolved into a Full-Stack role and part of it was due to the need for a project to have someone setup video calling with WebRTC (Without using a 3rd party service) on the front end and Back-End. Knowing the tech you’re working with on both side of the equation I feel is very important with these sort of implementation. In my case, it was also an opportunity to deep dive into a topic I’ve always been curious about 😄 Which might be a similar reasoning for most to want to transition towards Full-Stack, an opportunity to work with cool tech
The relevant proportions of full-stack, back-end and front-end are kind of interesting, but the really wild thing to me is how small the proportion of devs *not* working on web apps is. I've been programming desktop and/or embedded software for a decade and I forget how weird that makes me.
also I think that growth with FS dev related to Next.js and now a lot of FE devs thinks that they are FS dev if they are working with server-side rendering
I feel like college teaches you computer science and or engineering, which has surprisingly little overlap with coding. Getting out of school I felt like a terrible "programmer" or "coder" but I knew a lot about CS and engineering as a whole. Maybe just my experience but. . .
You can even look at this video , freaking cloud engineer was 1.2% of devs , when cloud jobs are supposed to grow by almost 20% over the next decade . THE ISSUE IS EVERYONE IS TRYING TO DO WEB DEV All you guys with CS degrees literally take out your own strengths and try to compete at the most entry level dev jobs with bootcamp grads . Instead of utilizing all the CS and math to do something skilled like cloud
I don't use Discord in any official capacity but I've hopped into servers on my personal account to ask questions relevant to my work. Wonder if it's the same for many.
Full Stack dev here, i think it's also a position for companies where the IT department is small and people need to be "all-rounders". I don't think it's for everyone as the tasks are so different it can saturate a lot of people but if you like creating things from 0-100 it's your thing :).
Keep in mind. There are no ABSOLUTE numbers. eg 76% people for admiration of Elixir - could mean only 10 people are using it and 7 want to re-use it again. Of course goes for any other stack/tech also
7:55 "variety"? To me a backend dev, front end development is insane with the amount tooling and languages they need to use, if you learned to use react in one place yet the other requires using angular which you have no expirience with, are you really full stack?
@@kelvinsmith4894 i'm not confused, i just lack the information you seem to have that prompted you to write your original comment. any topic works for me, whatever you feel like.
Software Dev is not about creating tools for devs, but mostly outsourcing I'd assume. I've always worked in companies where there are hundreds of projects in all industries - your current project might be Healthcare, next might be Fintech, etc. Many/most EU companies are not working on their own products.
i find it very hard to believe that any full stack dev HAS THE TIME to read and stay up to date with so many things. Im only frontend and i feel like losing my mind with so many things changing so quickly
I use VS/Azure/SQL Server. So easy to set up testing, staging, production environments and deploy. And reasonably priced if you don't use all the bells and whistles.
I've been a 'full stack dev' since forever, like, over 20yrs now. The difference is, I know how to design a database, hand code it etc... I don't need ORMs or anything like that.
if you have a fulltime job offer your not at the same stage of life i remeber hearing my college classmates complaining about my professor teacher to fast when we spent a entire semester on if statements and the second entire one on while loops..............
I use vercel, and have switched to digital ocean. Reasons are very simple: 1. I used vercel for the simplicity of deployment, and during learning. Majority of my clients apps are hosted on vercel. 2. My concern was (and is), having control over the entire process. I will continue to use vercel, but the freemium model (of any service) scares me. Digital ocean is straightforward. I pay for what i use, and i can get root terminal access and host anything i want. I do need to try more hosting services, so I may switch again when I find one that makes sense for me. Control is what I i want. I want root trrminal access to my server.
Full stack engineering roles are nuts! The subset of folks that can create a compelling UI/UX, do backend work, and create a proper DB Schema of any complexity is infinitesimally small. Netscape 4.7.1 broke me from ever doing front end work again.
8:50 , i suspect bash is often used as "sattellite" language, i've often seen it used in java and especially python scripts that require some form of configuration managment, so honestly anything that involes linux servers such python , kotlin, java , node etc. Would probably involve bash too
I think a decent amount of this is due to the current state of the economy. In a flourishing economy, it is more common to see specializations and developers who go super deep on the T. In a worse economy, it is more common to find companies who want generalists.
I love how you make it seem like professionals put those things as their only tool like Discord or Notepad++, we use all of these things. I don't think there is a tool that I don't use in that list.
I use homebrew with WSL pretty good package manager, never have problems. And the the docs on many sites include it as main installation method for all Linux distributions
The data: "Over half of professional devs say it's ok or perfect for complex tasks" "The majority of professional devs trust it more than distrust" "81% of professional devs say it increases productivity" Coping youtubers who never learned to use it properly because they bought into anti-ai propaganda: "Oh that's just because I'm the 1 person that's doing anything complex"
The AI is reliable, the prompter is not. A lot of nuances you only find out by ramming your head against the wall during implementation, so getting a fix that instantly sidesteps this process can lead in dysfucntional code.
10:00 - The extra features of postgres are not needed when you are learning, getting into a mysql shell to start playing with data is much easier. Especially when you take postgres' permission system into account and having to sudo to get into the master account. And sqlite will come from those python devs as its built into the standard library (check the default setup for django) so for simple todo, etc when learning its near impossible to beat so you aren't trying to learn DBA while learning to code.
also about the numbers of people who learned in secondary school etc. there is big difference between EU and NA, in EU we have computer science secondary schools, that makes it very helpfull if the stundent is insterested in coding, also BC takes only 3 years.
“Full Stack” typically means “knows how to use React”. I have yet to meet any devs who brag about being full stack that can do anything other than one of Python/PHP/JS. When companies hit mass, a lot of that kind of junk gets thrown out of backends, like at Twitter and AirBnB with Ruby for example. Facebook basically had to completely redo PHP to make it work at scale.
Almost all technologies reported a decrease in their median salary except Nim, Erlang and Apex. That was little alarming to me. Not sure if it means an overall decline in median salary for the dev community.
Gemini's flash is often faster than GPT 4o.. In case of dashboard like applications where there are multiple pages with nearly same layouts like tables and stuffs, I just copy the code from one of the component, and dump it completely in google's AI Studio and ask it to change it to the new specs and it 90% of the time does the job like I wanted it to do and fast.. and the context length is something else..
Lua is used in gaming a lot, and has a bunch of other niche uses. I doubt the indication present is only from Roblox at all. I don't doubt that it is a notable part.. I'm scared how big of a portion it is.
I think people still underestimating the ai take my job thing over the long term (3-5 years). I remember 2019 gpt-2 was gigashit and now 2024 it helps me coding + massive capital raises + huge algorithmic advances + the models this year became much cheaper which results in more/better data for training and bigger training runs in general. This multiplies by a lot if you take everything in account
i mainly program in nim, which is not the most popular language out there to put it nicely, and so either i’m consulting language docs, stdlib docs, library docs, actual code, or asking on discord. i haven’t used my stackexchange account in many years, but i do occasionally end up there when searching for some programming or math or whatever thing. maybe one year i’ll remember to seek out the survey so i can bump up nim in the rankings lmao. great language, more people should use it
Yeah this matches up with what I am seeing currently job searching. Everyone wants a full stack engineer, I guess its one less person to hire. Frontend focused roles are few and far between.
Those desired/admired graphs are definitely misleading, if you look at the circle graph for code editors, vscodium has a 100% satisfaction rate (isn't shown on all/professional developers since it isn't popular enough), but the earlier graph claims only ~60% admire vscodium. Also, love your comment about Atom, I used to use Atom and it was miserably slow.
4 місяці тому
I remember the time where everyone hated fullstack devs or devs that knew more than 1 language and did lots of things saying it was not worth it, it was prior pandemic times. At that time we had React "engineers" specialized only with React and knew nothing else not even vanilla js and also we had react forms engineers and shady stuff like that and all of them hated fullstack and said that we were ruining the dev experience and a waste of time and money bla bla bla... now a couple years after the COVID those devs had a very rough time and were the first ones to get fired cause they were not needed at all. And everyone now wants fullstack devs cause they can go everywhere without complaining or being so shady and sheetty about it
I feel like MySQL is the first thing devs learn when they first interact with SQL. That's what happened to me at least when they taught us MySQL at the University. Just think of what the M in XAMP stands for.
I like using ChatGPT when I have questions about a specific thing; I like that I can back and forth with it to clarify why it made a certain choice, how something I don't understand works, etc. But I find the integrated AI stuff invasive and grating and always turn it off whenever it appears anywhere. I have no idea if that's anyone else's reason though for why chatGPT is more used than copilot.
Hi! I’ve made VSCode extension on top of Xcode CLI tools to somehow solve the pain of iOS developers with Xcode. It’s called SweetPad in VSCode marketplace
38:45 that could honestly just be sampling error for nim at least. there's not many nim devs filling it out so it's gonna leave out a ton of people each year
Teams is that high because its integrations with Exchange and Sharepoint and Stream are just excellent... We all hate it and think it's a piece of crap, but none of us want to deal with the hassle of those integrations not being there...
To be able to work as a full stack you really want time and skills But when you work in a specific field and focus on it you will make a huge progress so , i gurantee big percentage of them did not know any shit
I've been wanting to build apps with Xcode but my quality of life goes down so much as a dev, I just end up not going through with it. Would love a video on editors for mobile
Microsoft teams is not free anymore for companies using Office 365. But, it still way cheaper than Slack and easier to integrate with Microsoft Intra ID
This is the first time I am hearing ExpressJS is in maintenance mode. Any recommendations for a backend framework (any language except Java) for someone who doesn't have any knowledge on web-dev ?
If those salaries are getting bad :( for the prices and cost of living in the USA, those thinking about becoming SWE need to forget about good pay. Enter because of passion and love to do it, honestly. Learning to program, with all the requirements asked and the need for a degree in this economy, and how hard university can be, I think in order for AI to be less of a replacement for devs and more of an assistant to us, the norm to become a full stack engineer is the direction. Or at least a full stack dev.
Why Ubuntu being close to MacOS is feeling wrong? Just because that is your personal bias? What is also weird is that Linux distro numbers weren't consolidated. If you add the distro numbers Linux is the leading OS in the survey
I imagine that MacOS is used more that Ubuntu in the general population, but people on Stack Overflow are likely to be developers. Linux is a by developers for developers kind of a kernel, and Developers are likely targeting either server-side software or Android. It can help to be using the same kernel as your target.
I have never had more displeasure than trying to learn Spring, I used Spring Boot for their tutorial project setup, didn't even work when I just git cloned their example repo. Never touched it again as I just switched to Python and then Express.
Spring has a website for starter projects called spring initializer. I created a lot of projects using it in the last couple of years and never did it fail or not work. Seems like you are just missing the knowledge to setup a Java/Kotlin backend which is fine, since you don't need to know everything. But don't blame the tool/framework 😅
I dropped out of college because I couldn't maintain my scholarship and I didnt wanna take out private loans. The place that I was interning at (through my college) offered to hire me full time if I decided to drop out and I took the opportunity. I do wish I could have finished schooling, but I was absolutely 100% vindicated in my decision to not take private loans for the last 2 years. I have an amazing career and have learned so much in and out of school. Maybe someday I will go back for the piece of paper, but it will be with financial security.
Hello there, same here, down to the number of years. I thought I wrote this myself lol.
Thats a good college
I paused my college classes for an internship that turned into a full time career as well. I'll go back eventually. They were online classes anyway, so I can always just take a few classes here and there.
You will have to start from the beginning, i think.
@@thomasj3421 this is in incorrect or at the very least not correct for most people. Many schools accept transfer credits, and credits don’t often “expire”. Schools may change the requirements, so even though I “had a year left” my née requirements today might look different, but they aren’t gonna make me retake cs101 if I find a school that will transfer credits from my previous school (or go back to the school I dropped out of)
Plenty of people go back to finish their degree years or decades later. It isn’t even that uncommon.
21:16. I don't know why the survey splits Linux in distos. If you add all the Linux together, it comes up to 57.3% on pro usage
The problem I'm finding with billing myself as a full-stack instead of just front-end is that typically I will see companies looking for the depth of someone who's specialized in everything at a fancy level, rather than having a mix of capabilities. In the last job I had, which was well over a year ago now, the backend guy was clearly a backend guy who could dip into frontend a bit, which is clearly what you'd expect or vice versa. He basically had 7 years of writing Django endpoints and a bit of exposure to React, whereas I can jump into probably any insane JavaScript codebase and reason enough about Django. But to be doing both at the same depth is asking for two specialists in one
Full Stack dev here, I love being able to deal with a problem at any level. I'd go insane being stuck in just front-end or back-end.
Completely agree, I'm working on a big web app and when I get too stuck on something (for 1-2 days) then I'll just go on some leet code or change language to just switch a little the way I approach problems.
Yeah doing some full stack myself, not having control of your own server API would SUCK! It's really nice being able to do what you want on both ends.
when you say fullstack what do you mean by that? like what are the duties and langs you use regularly ? are you the only dev working on it or is there a team?
well if you really want any level you might want to pick operating systems
Whats fullstack by all means? Why the term?
I think more people identifying as full-stack is an effect of moving from pure react to next.
Introduction and Survey Overview - 00:00:00
Survey Participation and Reach - 00:00:29
Technology Usage Stats - 00:00:54
Top 10 Countries Comparison - 00:01:25
Stack Overflow Account Ownership and Community Bias - 00:02:22
Educational Background and Coding Learning Methods - 00:03:25
Full Stack Developers and Technology Trends - 00:06:42
Most Popular Technologies and JavaScript Dominance - 00:08:15
Database Usage and Learning Trends - 00:09:16
Cloud Platform Preferences - 00:10:57
Web Frameworks and Technologies - 00:12:32
Embedded Technologies and Other Frameworks - 00:15:01
Tools and Development Environments - 00:16:09
Asynchronous and Synchronous Tools Usage - 00:18:03
Operating System Preferences - 00:20:15
AI Tools in Development - 00:21:11
Admired and Desired Technologies - 00:22:19
Database Preferences and Migration Trends - 00:23:52
Cloud Platform Preferences (Detailed) - 00:24:28
Web Framework Preferences and Trends - 00:25:18
Other Tools and Libraries - 00:26:52
IDE Preferences - 00:27:52
Asynchronous and Synchronous Tools (Detailed) - 00:28:50
AI Tools Sentiment and Usage - 00:29:21
Salary Insights by Technology - 00:37:17
Salary Changes and Economic Impact - 00:39:12
AI in Workflow and Future Trends - 00:40:18
Employment Status and Geography - 00:44:31
Work Environment and Company Size - 00:45:03
Salary by Developer Type and Location - 00:46:31
Salary and Experience by Developer Type - 00:48:38
Purchasing Technology and Influence - 00:49:42
Build vs. Buy Preferences - 00:51:20
Adoption of New Tools and Technologies - 00:52:26
Coding Outside of Work and Community Involvement - 00:53:27
Stack Overflow Usage and Community Insights - 00:53:58
Professional Developers and Experience Distribution - 00:55:17
Knowledge Sharing and Workplace Dynamics - 00:56:45
Tech Stack Complexity and Challenges - 00:58:43
Job Industry, Satisfaction, and Factors - 00:59:48
Final Thoughts and Wrap-up - 01:01:43
Most "Full stacks" i know are frontend and the rare backend "full stack" ive met just know like how to do something super basic but is mostly backend. generally i see it as a made up term meant to abuse devs. one of the reasons i avoid at all costs being "full stack" Keeping up with Networking, System admin,aws, gcp, azure. devops, cicd, go, rust, python, nodejs, terraform, salt and ansible, databases, security and reverse engineering. is already enough without having to keep up with Front end as well moves as fast or faster then everything else combined
That's a list of unrelated nonsense. Feel vindicated now?
In summary, most devs lie (including in the survey) about being truly "full stack" and are actually front-end or back-end.
@@SBDavin being full stack doesn't include terraform, ansible and all those devops stack. You don't even need multiple languages. It can be just JavaScript. This is some gatekeeping mission copium.
You don't even need to know deployment from scratch, you need just enough to deploy. A lot of backend colleagues don't even know much devops. It's not necessary in most cases because deploys happen through CI/CD pipeline. These days there's no need to even have access to the BE server or db. Local dev env is docker and already configured for testing.
You just can't take it that some people can build pretty UIs and still build backend apis.
@@aberbaCodes On the contrary, I hope we developers can create solutions on the front and back end tiers. As you eluded, a matching technology can be used to create solutions using the same technologies (eg. React server, Blazor, etc.). Unfortunately, most current architectures are still mixing different technologies to complete the stack.
My experiences with these differing platforms has been seeing most developers excelling primarily in one of the technology tiers.
Most are frontend dev because most of the work will be in the frontend, in my apps once the api is established the frontend takes 5x times more effort than the backend
Next step fullstack ,mobile dev , ai specialist,data science all in one pakage
You just described computer science
Currently, this is me except I'm a total noob at all of them!
I got started in UI programming with Windows 3.1 and the Windows API. I've done Delphi, MFC, OWL, WinForms and a bunch of other UI libraries before pretty much all user interfaces work has become web. The very idea of "front-end" vs "full-stack" is foreign to me. You develop the application as a whole. If you have a network jump to the browser doesn't mean you can skip part of it. This is an implementation detail! Customers don't run just half an application, the whole thing has to work together.
1:51 "A lot of my Ukrainian devs are killing it" Metaphorically and literally
based leafletjs ukrainian guy
I like you theo. Thanks for all this amazing free content. Greetings from a Full Stack Web Dev from Portugal. Just started my first project with the T3 Stack and it's amazing!
im dissapointed that they again didnt ask whether their degree/study was relevant to their job
yeah, I was curious about that too. How many of them are actually history/philosophy/art/etc majors who ended up in coding?
Being a "full-stack dev" for me is all about being able to write code in one of the frontend & backend languages at the same time. However, you usually are better at one than the other. Being a "back-end dev" is not all about being able to write code in one certain backend language only, but it's also about being able to write and understand ci/cd, devops stuff, security etc. This in my opinion explains the salary gap between a back-end dev and a full-stack dev
meta frameworks abstract a lot of things away. i had a coworker that couldn't figure out how to serve an html file but was considered "full stack". in general there's a very clear skill gap in my experience. the best full stack engineers i've worked with had years of experience exclusively working on backend. most full stack engineers started with frontend.
I'm currently working as fullstack, and being able to debug a problem through the whole stack is liberating. Not having to wait for a backend dev to fix some endpoint is very valuable as well.
@39:30 Drops in salary can also be from increased responses from outside the US where software salaries are generally much lower than in the US.
love the way the biases and skews of this survey are outlined right up front :-)
you have a great knack for making complex topics fun! ♂️
To answer why MySql more popular when regards to learning databases. MySQL is strictly a relational database whilst PostgreSQL is an object-relational database management system (ORDBMS) meaning it's easier to teach students about database on a simpler level
Had applied for a Back-End role. It evolved into a Full-Stack role and part of it was due to the need for a project to have someone setup video calling with WebRTC (Without using a 3rd party service) on the front end and Back-End. Knowing the tech you’re working with on both side of the equation I feel is very important with these sort of implementation. In my case, it was also an opportunity to deep dive into a topic I’ve always been curious about 😄 Which might be a similar reasoning for most to want to transition towards Full-Stack, an opportunity to work with cool tech
The relevant proportions of full-stack, back-end and front-end are kind of interesting, but the really wild thing to me is how small the proportion of devs *not* working on web apps is. I've been programming desktop and/or embedded software for a decade and I forget how weird that makes me.
also I think that growth with FS dev related to Next.js and now a lot of FE devs thinks that they are FS dev if they are working with server-side rendering
How many of that 62.3% of people that used Javascript did it because they wanted to or they had to because it was hoisted on to them?
Super insightful, thanks Theo!
I feel like college teaches you computer science and or engineering, which has surprisingly little overlap with coding. Getting out of school I felt like a terrible "programmer" or "coder" but I knew a lot about CS and engineering as a whole. Maybe just my experience but. . .
Yeah and there’s way more careers out there than just web dev . I love being an engineer with my CS degree . I’m learning some electrical on the job
You can even look at this video , freaking cloud engineer was 1.2% of devs , when cloud jobs are supposed to grow by almost 20% over the next decade .
THE ISSUE IS EVERYONE IS TRYING TO DO WEB DEV
All you guys with CS degrees literally take out your own strengths and try to compete at the most entry level dev jobs with bootcamp grads . Instead of utilizing all the CS and math to do something skilled like cloud
I don't use Discord in any official capacity but I've hopped into servers on my personal account to ask questions relevant to my work. Wonder if it's the same for many.
Esp with that dumb phone verification
Full Stack dev here, i think it's also a position for companies where the IT department is small and people need to be "all-rounders". I don't think it's for everyone as the tasks are so different it can saturate a lot of people but if you like creating things from 0-100 it's your thing :).
Keep in mind. There are no ABSOLUTE numbers. eg 76% people for admiration of Elixir - could mean only 10 people are using it and 7 want to re-use it again.
Of course goes for any other stack/tech also
have not done much java in like a decade, but would love to see how spring is doing atm
In my university, MySQL is the primary DBMS taught to students.
7:55 "variety"? To me a backend dev, front end development is insane with the amount tooling and languages they need to use, if you learned to use react in one place yet the other requires using angular which you have no expirience with, are you really full stack?
Full stack here. I love your videos, sir.
Take a shot every time he says "very interesting"
I finished the bottle in first 10 minutes
Theo just killed a few people.
I'm here before 65k and I did the survey as well
A large percentage of the participants have zero idea what they’re talking about
can you give some examples and explanations? i sort of have a similar gut feeling but don't know any facts about it.
@@FunctionGermany What areas would you like me to begin with, so I could avoid confusing you further?
@@kelvinsmith4894 i'm not confused, i just lack the information you seem to have that prompted you to write your original comment. any topic works for me, whatever you feel like.
@@FunctionGermany All you sure the information, is all you need?
@@kelvinsmith4894 lmao just answer his damn question
Software Dev is not about creating tools for devs, but mostly outsourcing I'd assume. I've always worked in companies where there are hundreds of projects in all industries - your current project might be Healthcare, next might be Fintech, etc. Many/most EU companies are not working on their own products.
i find it very hard to believe that any full stack dev HAS THE TIME to read and stay up to date with so many things. Im only frontend and i feel like losing my mind with so many things changing so quickly
what's the problem with digital ocean tho?
I use VS/Azure/SQL Server. So easy to set up testing, staging, production environments and deploy. And reasonably priced if you don't use all the bells and whistles.
I've been a 'full stack dev' since forever, like, over 20yrs now. The difference is, I know how to design a database, hand code it etc... I don't need ORMs or anything like that.
if you have a fulltime job offer your not at the same stage of life i remeber hearing my college classmates complaining about my professor teacher to fast when we spent a entire semester on if statements and the second entire one on while loops..............
I use vercel, and have switched to digital ocean.
Reasons are very simple:
1. I used vercel for the simplicity of deployment, and during learning. Majority of my clients apps are hosted on vercel.
2. My concern was (and is), having control over the entire process. I will continue to use vercel, but the freemium model (of any service) scares me. Digital ocean is straightforward. I pay for what i use, and i can get root terminal access and host anything i want.
I do need to try more hosting services, so I may switch again when I find one that makes sense for me.
Control is what I i want. I want root trrminal access to my server.
Full stack engineering roles are nuts! The subset of folks that can create a compelling UI/UX, do backend work, and create a proper DB Schema of any complexity is infinitesimally small. Netscape 4.7.1 broke me from ever doing front end work again.
Ruff is so cool, Astral is doing great things
9:42, basically my exact reaction to some of the results from the survey.
8:50 , i suspect bash is often used as "sattellite" language, i've often seen it used in java and especially python scripts that require some form of configuration managment, so honestly anything that involes linux servers such python , kotlin, java , node etc. Would probably involve bash too
Moved my dev team to discord, everyone is happy after slack!
I think a decent amount of this is due to the current state of the economy. In a flourishing economy, it is more common to see specializations and developers who go super deep on the T. In a worse economy, it is more common to find companies who want generalists.
All the Next.js devs claiming full stack now bc they moved their react components to the server lol
I love how you make it seem like professionals put those things as their only tool like Discord or Notepad++, we use all of these things. I don't think there is a tool that I don't use in that list.
I use homebrew with WSL pretty good package manager, never have problems. And the the docs on many sites include it as main installation method for all Linux distributions
Expected Rust and Java to be higher.
BTW: You managed to dodge teams? RESPECT
My work uses teams, the thing is really useless when it decided to only notify me of anything sometimes. Missed a lot of messages if I'm busy.
The data: "Over half of professional devs say it's ok or perfect for complex tasks" "The majority of professional devs trust it more than distrust" "81% of professional devs say it increases productivity"
Coping youtubers who never learned to use it properly because they bought into anti-ai propaganda: "Oh that's just because I'm the 1 person that's doing anything complex"
The AI is reliable, the prompter is not.
A lot of nuances you only find out by ramming your head against the wall during implementation, so getting a fix that instantly sidesteps this process can lead in dysfucntional code.
"Start adding colons to your codebase..." Cracking up here 🤣
10:00 - The extra features of postgres are not needed when you are learning, getting into a mysql shell to start playing with data is much easier. Especially when you take postgres' permission system into account and having to sudo to get into the master account. And sqlite will come from those python devs as its built into the standard library (check the default setup for django) so for simple todo, etc when learning its near impossible to beat so you aren't trying to learn DBA while learning to code.
Theo sounds so defeated asking if they want a Java video.
also about the numbers of people who learned in secondary school etc. there is big difference between EU and NA, in EU we have computer science secondary schools, that makes it very helpfull if the stundent is insterested in coding, also BC takes only 3 years.
“Full Stack” typically means “knows how to use React”.
I have yet to meet any devs who brag about being full stack that can do anything other than one of Python/PHP/JS.
When companies hit mass, a lot of that kind of junk gets thrown out of backends, like at Twitter and AirBnB with Ruby for example. Facebook basically had to completely redo PHP to make it work at scale.
Almost all technologies reported a decrease in their median salary except Nim, Erlang and Apex. That was little alarming to me. Not sure if it means an overall decline in median salary for the dev community.
Gemini's flash is often faster than GPT 4o.. In case of dashboard like applications where there are multiple pages with nearly same layouts like tables and stuffs, I just copy the code from one of the component, and dump it completely in google's AI Studio and ask it to change it to the new specs and it 90% of the time does the job like I wanted it to do and fast.. and the context length is something else..
Lua is used in many places. I really hope Roblox isn't overshadowing its uses..
Full stack here. I love my work.
26:40 I would love a spring boot in depth video
Lua is used in gaming a lot, and has a bunch of other niche uses. I doubt the indication present is only from Roblox at all. I don't doubt that it is a notable part.. I'm scared how big of a portion it is.
I think people still underestimating the ai take my job thing over the long term (3-5 years). I remember 2019 gpt-2 was gigashit and now 2024 it helps me coding + massive capital raises + huge algorithmic advances + the models this year became much cheaper which results in more/better data for training and bigger training runs in general. This multiplies by a lot if you take everything in account
i mainly program in nim, which is not the most popular language out there to put it nicely, and so either i’m consulting language docs, stdlib docs, library docs, actual code, or asking on discord. i haven’t used my stackexchange account in many years, but i do occasionally end up there when searching for some programming or math or whatever thing. maybe one year i’ll remember to seek out the survey so i can bump up nim in the rankings lmao. great language, more people should use it
Yeah this matches up with what I am seeing currently job searching. Everyone wants a full stack engineer, I guess its one less person to hire.
Frontend focused roles are few and far between.
Those desired/admired graphs are definitely misleading, if you look at the circle graph for code editors, vscodium has a 100% satisfaction rate (isn't shown on all/professional developers since it isn't popular enough), but the earlier graph claims only ~60% admire vscodium. Also, love your comment about Atom, I used to use Atom and it was miserably slow.
I remember the time where everyone hated fullstack devs or devs that knew more than 1 language and did lots of things saying it was not worth it, it was prior pandemic times. At that time we had React "engineers" specialized only with React and knew nothing else not even vanilla js and also we had react forms engineers and shady stuff like that and all of them hated fullstack and said that we were ruining the dev experience and a waste of time and money bla bla bla... now a couple years after the COVID those devs had a very rough time and were the first ones to get fired cause they were not needed at all. And everyone now wants fullstack devs cause they can go everywhere without complaining or being so shady and sheetty about it
I feel like MySQL is the first thing devs learn when they first interact with SQL. That's what happened to me at least when they taught us MySQL at the University. Just think of what the M in XAMP stands for.
Wow I can see the pain in Theo’s eyes watching flutter win against RN 🤣
A better technology winning against a tangled mess haha
In Egypt, teams is like the gold standard
python dev here, I participated in the survey.
MySQL is higher than PostgreSql in the learning code category because almost every tutorial on the planet uses MySQL rather than other databases
A good "alternative" to pip is poetry 27:53
So embedded and games are combined for 4 % but c and c++ are both at 20 and 23%? Something doesn't sound right.
I always miss this survey. I'm also not very active on SO
started watching now at 42k
I like using ChatGPT when I have questions about a specific thing; I like that I can back and forth with it to clarify why it made a certain choice, how something I don't understand works, etc. But I find the integrated AI stuff invasive and grating and always turn it off whenever it appears anywhere. I have no idea if that's anyone else's reason though for why chatGPT is more used than copilot.
Hi! I’ve made VSCode extension on top of Xcode CLI tools to somehow solve the pain of iOS developers with Xcode. It’s called SweetPad in VSCode marketplace
Jupyter notebook has NodeJS support, and can cope with other language "kernels"
Octave is the best modern coding lang, even though we could prolly do a bit better
38:45 that could honestly just be sampling error for nim at least. there's not many nim devs filling it out so it's gonna leave out a ton of people each year
39:51 zig and ada might also be good examples of this. smaller languages mean fewer responses which means less accurate results
I went to college part time while working full time until I finished my masters so you can do both.
Teams is that high because its integrations with Exchange and Sharepoint and Stream are just excellent... We all hate it and think it's a piece of crap, but none of us want to deal with the hassle of those integrations not being there...
To be able to work as a full stack you really want time and skills
But when you work in a specific field and focus on it you will make a huge progress so , i gurantee big percentage of them did not know any shit
Take a shot every time Theo says "interesting"
I've been wanting to build apps with Xcode but my quality of life goes down so much as a dev, I just end up not going through with it. Would love a video on editors for mobile
Probably, the full-stack developers are using Next/Nuxt and ORMs.
Microsoft teams is not free anymore for companies using Office 365. But, it still way cheaper than Slack and easier to integrate with Microsoft Intra ID
11:40 Heroku offer a free teir which is really easy to set up and is free this may be why heroku is on there
43:23 Why they hate to jira? We are in the process of moving to it from jazz, which i'm sure can't be worse
This is the first time I am hearing ExpressJS is in maintenance mode. Any recommendations for a backend framework (any language except Java) for someone who doesn't have any knowledge on web-dev ?
Try out go(the standard library is enough) but if you want something light like fastapi(python)… try out gin-gonic
If those salaries are getting bad :( for the prices and cost of living in the USA, those thinking about becoming SWE need to forget about good pay. Enter because of passion and love to do it, honestly. Learning to program, with all the requirements asked and the need for a degree in this economy, and how hard university can be, I think in order for AI to be less of a replacement for devs and more of an assistant to us, the norm to become a full stack engineer is the direction. Or at least a full stack dev.
Wish I had watched this live so many takes from a 44 years in S/W
Why Ubuntu being close to MacOS is feeling wrong? Just because that is your personal bias? What is also weird is that Linux distro numbers weren't consolidated. If you add the distro numbers Linux is the leading OS in the survey
I imagine that MacOS is used more that Ubuntu in the general population, but people on Stack Overflow are likely to be developers. Linux is a by developers for developers kind of a kernel, and Developers are likely targeting either server-side software or Android. It can help to be using the same kernel as your target.
27:18.10 - 27:26.2 Rust is fixing the computing 🤗
Operating system results are misleading: if you add all the linux distros together it's over 60%, higher than windows.
Best way to use AI is to generate mock data for demos / testing.
I have never had more displeasure than trying to learn Spring, I used Spring Boot for their tutorial project setup, didn't even work when I just git cloned their example repo. Never touched it again as I just switched to Python and then Express.
Spring has a website for starter projects called spring initializer. I created a lot of projects using it in the last couple of years and never did it fail or not work. Seems like you are just missing the knowledge to setup a Java/Kotlin backend which is fine, since you don't need to know everything. But don't blame the tool/framework 😅