Shaking grains and interesting physics. With James Clewett Visit our website at www.sixtysymbol... We're on Facebook at / sixtysymbols And Twitter at #!/...
The paper and authors shown briefly at the end is "Liquid-Gas Phase Separation in Confined Vibrated Dry Granular Matter," by Roeller et al. It would be helpful to include this information in the description.
If I'm not mistaken, in one of these videos about granular dynamics, it was said that this doesn't seem to be explained by "normal" laws of physics. If however a computer simulation (which presumably uses normal physics) shows the same results, then it must be explainable by our currently understood laws of physics, even if we don't know how. When you think about it, the fact we can program a simulation and have things happen that we can't explain, is kind of funny, and neat.
What part does Aero-drag play in this test? If you get the grains to resonate together, the air-resistance would probably help the formation of the clusters around the borders, where the air is to be expected to follow the surrounding walls too. Can you try the same experiment in a vacuum? Also: While the frequency was stable, the amplitude was altered, but the allowed "waivelenght" for the particles is limited. This looks like an Amplitude modulation instead of a frequency modulation.
That's a very clever theory to fit the observation, but remember he also talked about how the effect still appears in a computer simulation, where they would not have included air as a factor (and if they had, they would have found that to be the reason for the effect). The first precaution they would take with this sort of thing would be to ensure that the effect exists in a perfect model of the grains rather than an imperfect experiment.
Great demo of why the use of descriptive words for things you can see should be used very sparingly for those you can't see. Beads are not gas molecules, and only partially act in similar manner.
From what I can tell, this experiment is not done in vacuum, which means there are air particles in the mix to consider. One could imagine that at a certain amplitude, glass particles chaotic motion gets overtaken by the motion imparted by the piston in the axis its pushing in. The granules moving up and down together as a plane, would basically make a floating piston, that would create air streams of air particles in the mix, instead of them also behaving chaoticaly.
@Azyashi Here's what I think happened. Remember the ideal gas law? PV=nRT or PV=mRT depending on your units. When the granules were in random motion, all the energy input from the vibrator thing = energy lost. When the granules started bouncing coherently, the "temperature" of the granules spiked up and so did the pressure. Since he said that collecting at one point will lower the pressure/temperature, all the granules started collecting there and eventually it evened out again. Unsure though.
Insightfully FASCINATING! A new phase transition is observed experimentally in a dry granular gas subject to vertical vibration between two horizontal plates. Molecular dynamics simulations of this system allow investigation of the observed phase separation to find a high-density, low temperature liquid, coexisting with a low-density, high temperature gas moving coherently. The importance of the coherent motion for phase separation was investigated using frequency modulation. Key: COHERENCE
Maybe the box slightly bends when vibrating violently. The misshapen box therefore encouraging the granules to migrate towards locations of concavity. Thumbs up to get the scientist to answer this post!!!
Yes, but in the video, they are not mentioning vacuum anywhere, the simulation is mentioned as confirming that the effect works with ideally level and flat surface, not that it works without air. For all we know from the video, the simulation might have included atmosphere as well.
Basically, what that means, is that there will be wind inside the box, and as a plane of glass particles rise up, and starts falling down, the air would get pushed down, then outwards, which would carry some glass particles with them, forcing them towards edges, so the air pressure in the middle will increase, and decrease at the edges (because there would be more glass granules at the edges), and when you again increase amplitude, the forces imparted by the piston can overcome the pressure.
No, it makes perfect sense - there will always be another octave higher to reach toward within resonance states. Although it did surprise me at first when the beads at last reached a new field of equilibrium and returned to a gaseous state - awesome.
4:08 That's one way to explain it. However the more elementary explanation is that the induced different vibrational speeds between the air molecules and sand molecules creates domain separation. Literately two discrete spacetimes. Obviously this experiment will not work if it was under vacuum.
@EveryoneIsBoring Actually on their channel(sixtysymbols), there is a video explaining it with a different example. Basically, the more closer together the beads get, the more they collide with each other...and thus waste their energy. Less energy..less movement, less movement, less temperature/pressure, less pressure, more particles.
I'm glad I found this because I have to admit I didn't quite understand what you meant when you explained this to me on the open day. I think I know what it's about now :)
I submit that you should try shaking a much larger surface to see if the particles keep on moving in the same directions, or if they settle into islands or if other effects are observed. Also, try a round surface. Needless to say, this interests me... please do one of those longer videos, or a follow up when more is known.
Chladni nodes. They propagate differently when the edge of the surface is clamped and has holes drilled in it, as opposed to a flat square plate with no holes.
What's surprising is that when matter is in a solid state (low amplitude), it clumps together and keeps that form. As it gets hotter (amplitude increases), it tends to become more uniform (gasses expand to fill the available space). But in this experiment with solid particles, it's other way around.
as someone already mentioned, the plate they are using can not be an absolutely rigid body. So the oscillations of the plate and formation of nodes and anti-nodes are inevitable.
the effect shown here is occurring not because of the change in frequency, but the change in the amplitude, therefore resonance here does not happen as for resonance you need matching frequencies.
Both harder AND faster. The frequency stays the same. But the total travelling distance increases due to higher amplitudes, which means greater distance from the "zero-level". And greater distance in equal time means faster. The force becomes stronger in that process too. The maximum accelleration increases, the mass stays the same, which means more force.
As the particles vibrate horizontal motion seems to be generated by oblique collisions and it's energy is lost in collisions with walls... so if at some frequency particles come into resonance and number of oblique collisions reduce (probably the particles start oscillating parallel to each other and with phase difference nπ) and only vertical collision occur then the pressure due to random horizontal motion reduces... I am not a scientist or an engineer but just guessing a probable reason
Pressure decreasing due to particles being near each other has everything to do with particle interaction. In a quick thought experiment, think about what would happen if all these particles had a magical force of attraction, where they wanted to stay close together. Then it's reasonable that you would expect clumps of matter to form. In this case, the "magical force of attraction" is the energy loss due to oblique collisions between particles. (There's another sixty symbols video that discusses this in more detail).
In the less dense area, particles move faster, and therefore more motion, which is what's called 'more pressure'. In the higher density area, the particles move less (presumably losing their energy to collisions or what have you), and moving less means 'less pressure'.
Having watched a lot of Sixty Symbols and other similar videos lately the pattern reminded me of matter forming galaxies right after the big bang, but that is probably true of any group of particles that for whatever reason begin to attract one another into denser areas.
@DemiImp Substantially different size particles may account for the behavior, therefore same sized particles that are clean are useful to rule out these issues.
Agreed, except on the random thing at the start of your comment. Nothing random. Everything still following the laws of physics. It is the human mind (the greatest pattern seeking machine ever discovered) that implies values on what it percieves as patterns
Dust on machines - vibration frequencies rule granular sizes and dust bunnies. Lots of varients used in mineral extraction. So a Navier-Stokes type analysis of selected grain sizes using better computer programming models of processing flows is always going to be popular in industry. In the quantum universe there's no truely simple system isolated from everything else.
@frichikendz I'd guess at least part of the reason why that happens is because the liquid is most hot in the middle of the cup and cooler at the sides. Hot water (at least >4deg C) rises and cool water sinks, so small currents are formed which, at the surface, are moving toward the edge.
- do the patters repeat when the experiment is duplicated? - as in certain frequencies trigger spots to form in corresponding areas. Interesting video!
@Ichijojichan I'm guessing the particles resonate between the top and bottom surfaces at a certain frequency and so they have a lot of kinetic energy, but if they get too crowded and start bumping into each other the resonance stops because the particles are hitting the top and bottom at random times during the up/down cycle.
well, the example i saw was actually metronomes aligning themselves on a board resting on two aluminum cans so that the motion of the metronome would cause the board to move relative to the cans inertial - although metronomes are certainly a type of pendulum =)
I would like to see this experiment done with a circular or cylindrical box. Not that there would be a different result but maybe a different visual output. The computer simulation shows the granules spreading to the corners, as far away from the centre as possibly.
i'd guess that at low amplitudes the granules are oscillated randomly on all three axes,so pressure in all directions are similar, producing a nice uniform distribution of particles.then at a resonant frequency of vibration in one axis (z-height movement of the piston in this case)each particle now resonates in the z axis at the expense of x/y oscillation,such that x/y pressures drop and the particles collect sideways.expectedly the pressure on the glass and baseplate must have greatly increased
@godlyking3 Yes they would because the base of the cell throws the grains up, and they hit the top of the cell and bounce down again, in zero gravity. And so on. When gravity is present theamplitude of oscillation has to be large enough to overcome the effect of gravity so that the particles hit the top plate..
@HotblackDesiat042 When I speak of limiting I mean the point at which the amplitude of the drive signal is sufficient to extend the piston/solenoid to its farthest extent, thus reaching its maximum stroke. Any increase in amplitude beyond that point will be clipped as the piston cannot extend farther. When the amplitude is pushed beyond this point is would be akin to a square wave feed versus the sine wave feed, as that would be the motion the grains would feel.
What a coincedence. I was just putting rice in a snare drum using a paper funnel and I was thinking about possible pattern forming when playing the drum (the drum heads are transparent) inspired by the earlier video with prof. Bowley.
Really interesting experiment. I've seen that happen before but like probably most ppl in the world, I didn't pay much attention to it - and thought the container might be sloped or wobbly, heh
try it in a vaccumn. my theroy is the glass particles are round a bit like an airfoil. as they move rapidly up and down, through the medium of air, the accelerated air flowing over them would cause a pressure drop, hense the clumping tendency from lower pressure air regions. the bernulli principle in action. maybe?
Simplicity is the natural occurring mathematical reciprocal of pseudo randomness, because here-now-forever is this same principle of condensed/tuned frequencies, integrated reciprocals of e-Pi-i resonance imaging. Basic Physical Observation has to be repeated for changing POV.., different angles for the same principle/"news". This is what you would get, a tuned interference positioning, if you vibrate the screen in the double slit experiment, at the appropriate frequencies.
from wiki: "In physics, resonance is the tendency of a system to oscillate with greater amplitude at some frequencies than at others" you can't call resonance whatever. resonance is increase in amplitude because of matching frequencies. resonance has nothing to do here with shown effect.
Most of these videos are interesting and I always enjoy watching them, but this is the most interesting one I've seen in a while. What an odd and counterintuitive effects nature sometimes performs for us. Fascinating!
Dr. Sexy makes physics interesting and he has a beautiful smile 🥰 I could watch him read the phone book and be just as hooked! Need more dudes like him in science communication!
It's kind of a basic part of the process of analysis to remove as many variables as possible when you're trying to explain an effect. I'd be utterly shocked if they had gone to all this trouble using complex physics to explain this phenomenon only to find it had been the result of an effect they previously explained and understood in the "chlandi's plate" video.
I did not understand why the pressure went down as the density went up. I understand that it is contraintuitive and that it clearly happens, but is there anyway to explain it any further? And no, this is not a dull subject at all, this is nature and how it works. People who think that nature is dull are just to in love with the illusion of reality we've created.
@peterc1 Actually the 'layers of atmosphere' are due to the Earth's gravity, pulling the gases to it. The denser gases accumulate close to the Earth, while the lighter ones are pushed upwards. The higher you go, the less dense the atmosphere it.
@HotblackDesiat042 @Jebus495, at the beginning he says that he is only changing the amplitude, not the frequency, because amplitude has a greater visual effect on the system, or something like that. So it's amplitude/gain, not frequency.
@XF0 It's not about my video card, it's that when looking at this glass in real life, at those amplitudes and frequencies, I don't believe you CAN make it out. My video card is very decent. I was also playing off of a Mitch Hedberg joke, that bigfoot actually is blurry.
At a high temperature driven by coherent granule movement, a randomly generated cluster of granules causes a drop in pressure in their region, thus attracting more granules to the cluster? And coherent granule movement is some kind of resonance effect that occurs only at a certain frequency and its multiples of shaking? I'd like to learn more. How about a part two and explain things a bit more?
I really enjoyed this video, I love seeing what researchers are working on. It's interesting to watch all these little steps in various fields, each pushing human understanding just a notch further.
Has any Physicist, Chemist or Biologist been awarded a Nobel prize, based on their PhD thesis alone? That's what every budding scientist should be aiming for!
@Atveurf He said the denser areas were hotter so the pressure was lower causing other particles to collect there. If these related then the center of the star would be low pressure and have more particles, or the out side would be hotter with more partials, but less dense. Neither of these make any sense to me, but that is not my field.
Is there somewhere I can read all about this like the equations and statistics of the system? Because it actually does seem like a very interesting topic.
Wow! This is a tremendous discovery. It pretty much turns thermodynamics upside down. I think it will have a major impact on the theory of thermal death of the universe. Order appearing out of chaos. Just tremendous!
is there a reason why you cant consider the particles as being in a "liquid" at that amplitude? i think it would also be a great thing to look at the physic in a bigger environement, so you can see how the particles react without hitting two layers constantly, to check if the clumping happens again
+maxime therrien Yes Maxime, I agree with your suggestion to get rid of the 2 layers. I guess getting rid of 1 layer already would give a hint. Does anyone have a link of the relevant publication? Thanks.
Except that what I'm saying has nothing to do with the Chlandi's plate effect. Chlandi's plate patterns emerge at the points on the plate that are not moving up and down, which is not the case in this experiment. What we have here, ideally, is a plate moving up and down uniformly across it's whole surface, which is why the effect was a surprise to begin with.
Trivial response. Everyone knows about the probabilistic nature of physics. But at the macro level there is a clear difference in what is deterministic and what is presumably random.
While the guy in video talked like the it was gas -> liquid -> gas. i could imagine that the first state might actually act more like a solid than a gas. Though it's not clear from the video if those particles stay pretty much in same place or if they move around like in gas.
Despite of it's simplicity, this may be one of the most amene and interesting sixtysymbols videos to watch. I agree with @Jan1515 that much of it is merit of the edition. Also because Dr. Tetris seems sounds like a lovable person. heh I wonder if it could be possible to obtain a vacuum zone with this technique in an actual gas...
That's a cool idea: That our universe is vibrating are a frequency such that matter tends to clump like the sand particles in this video! :D I think you mean it gets rid of the Dark Mass problem, which is the big clumping force. Dark Energy is the big expansion force.
How does this relate to the pendulum effect? As in when you have a bunch of pendulums set up where the motion can cause horizontal movement , they align them selves to tick together. Maybe the impacts vibrating the glass has something to do with this as well (the vibration waves would have to strong enough to have overlapping waves at somewhat similar frequencies)
The laws of thermodynamics do not apply for a system where energy is not conserved: the colliding particles lose energy as the collisions are inelastic and the energy is lost as heat. The surprsing observation is that the system behaves as if it were a thermodynamic system, even though it is not. And there appears to be a surface tension which governs the shape of the two phases.
Perhaps you should try it in a cylindrical chamber, just for interest's sake to see where, if at all it would still clump. The pressure seems to be lower in the corners, is this true?
I'm wondering.... would this also apply to the expansion of the universe. When the coherency of energy is achieved in a certain state- where particles are in chaos in a certain energy caused by the pressure of the expansion to the observation we just saw with the grains.
@thesourceofx Thanks for your input. Perhaps they are not amplifying it to the extent in which limiting occurs. I’m just curious to know if they are reaching, or passing that point in amplitude.
Isn't it kinda like solid -> water -> gas My bet is that while in "watery from" If we assume that particles are moving at different speeds (some slower others faster) Faster moving particles in less dense space bounce on each other as Slower particles packed tighter.
Can this experiment be done with actual particles, like electrons? Will the expectation be the same? I just want to know because it seems as things get smaller and smaller the quantum mechanical effects may produce something different than what we would expect. Thanks.
Am I understanding this correctly. The lower pressure area has a higher rate of collision. With the higher collision rate the probability that 2 or more particles will hit another at the same time increases thus transfering all that energy into a single particle which ends up pushed into the higher pressure area taking all that energy with it? In other words is the action similar to evaporation?
Hmm. Though it doesnt seem to be related it reminds me of negative temperatures in an system that can receive finite energh, in statistical physics. After one pumps more and more energy, the entropy goes to zero (like in this case, the particles go into one side of the box, lowering the entropy)
I know very very little of physics and science but could this relate to the inner workings of a star? Possibly where the particles of elements are withing the star? Like maybe the core is the hottest so there are more particles on the outskirts of the star?
@eltotoX Yes, It is by testing, flat and level but maybe they didn't test the flatness while vibrating at high oscillation. I would also like to know how they measured the level. eg Did they use digital instruments?
Varying the amplitude changes the net energy into the system --wouldn't changing the frequency do the same? At what critical point does the pahse transition (chaos-->stocastic) happen? Is this a function of the phase space betweent that transition and the change "back"? How about higher energies? Do you get other phase changes at higher energies? Finally, just curious--what were you looking for when you found this phenomenum?
I don't understand half of what this channel is talking about but it's fascinating. I love learning about these complex sciences.
The paper and authors shown briefly at the end is "Liquid-Gas Phase Separation in Confined Vibrated Dry Granular Matter," by Roeller et al. It would be helpful to include this information in the description.
I'm going to Nottingham to study Physics this September, can't wait! These videos just make me more excited, keep them coming :)
What are you doing now??
Stunning effect! The pressure drop still blows my mind.
If I'm not mistaken, in one of these videos about granular dynamics, it was said that this doesn't seem to be explained by "normal" laws of physics. If however a computer simulation (which presumably uses normal physics) shows the same results, then it must be explainable by our currently understood laws of physics, even if we don't know how. When you think about it, the fact we can program a simulation and have things happen that we can't explain, is kind of funny, and neat.
What part does Aero-drag play in this test? If you get the grains to resonate together, the air-resistance would probably help the formation of the clusters around the borders, where the air is to be expected to follow the surrounding walls too.
Can you try the same experiment in a vacuum?
Also: While the frequency was stable, the amplitude was altered, but the allowed "waivelenght" for the particles is limited. This looks like an Amplitude modulation instead of a frequency modulation.
That's a very clever theory to fit the observation, but remember he also talked about how the effect still appears in a computer simulation, where they would not have included air as a factor (and if they had, they would have found that to be the reason for the effect). The first precaution they would take with this sort of thing would be to ensure that the effect exists in a perfect model of the grains rather than an imperfect experiment.
This is great stuff. And the smiley face at 9:39 is a bonus.
Great demo of why the use of descriptive words for things you can see should be used very sparingly for those you can't see. Beads are not gas molecules, and only partially act in similar manner.
I love the way the sand looks when he first turned it on. it's kind of seeing snow on the television. I find it mesmerizing
From what I can tell, this experiment is not done in vacuum, which means there are air particles in the mix to consider. One could imagine that at a certain amplitude, glass particles chaotic motion gets overtaken by the motion imparted by the piston in the axis its pushing in.
The granules moving up and down together as a plane, would basically make a floating piston, that would create air streams of air particles in the mix, instead of them also behaving chaoticaly.
One of the best channels anywhere on the Internet. Consistently jaw-dropping, accessible science.
@Azyashi
Here's what I think happened. Remember the ideal gas law? PV=nRT or PV=mRT depending on your units. When the granules were in random motion, all the energy input from the vibrator thing = energy lost. When the granules started bouncing coherently, the "temperature" of the granules spiked up and so did the pressure. Since he said that collecting at one point will lower the pressure/temperature, all the granules started collecting there and eventually it evened out again. Unsure though.
Insightfully FASCINATING! A new phase transition is observed experimentally in a dry granular gas subject to vertical vibration between two horizontal plates. Molecular dynamics simulations of this system allow investigation of the observed phase separation to find a high-density, low temperature liquid, coexisting with a low-density, high temperature gas moving coherently. The importance of the coherent motion for phase separation was investigated using frequency modulation. Key: COHERENCE
Maybe the box slightly bends when vibrating violently. The misshapen box therefore encouraging the granules to migrate towards locations of concavity.
Thumbs up to get the scientist to answer this post!!!
Yes, but in the video, they are not mentioning vacuum anywhere, the simulation is mentioned as confirming that the effect works with ideally level and flat surface, not that it works without air. For all we know from the video, the simulation might have included atmosphere as well.
Basically, what that means, is that there will be wind inside the box, and as a plane of glass particles rise up, and starts falling down, the air would get pushed down, then outwards, which would carry some glass particles with them, forcing them towards edges, so the air pressure in the middle will increase, and decrease at the edges (because there would be more glass granules at the edges), and when you again increase amplitude, the forces imparted by the piston can overcome the pressure.
No, it makes perfect sense - there will always be another octave higher to reach toward within resonance states. Although it did surprise me at first when the beads at last reached a new field of equilibrium and returned to a gaseous state - awesome.
4:08 That's one way to explain it. However the more elementary explanation is that the induced different vibrational speeds between the air molecules and sand molecules creates domain separation. Literately two discrete spacetimes. Obviously this experiment will not work if it was under vacuum.
@EveryoneIsBoring
Actually on their channel(sixtysymbols), there is a video explaining it with a different example.
Basically, the more closer together the beads get, the more they collide with each other...and thus waste their energy. Less energy..less movement, less movement, less temperature/pressure, less pressure, more particles.
This series continues to blow my tiny mind! Thank you for making them.
I think I'll bring up granular dynamics in my job interview today.
0:30 His enthusiasm for his boxes is reminiscent of the Malta potatoes video.
I'm glad I found this because I have to admit I didn't quite understand what you meant when you explained this to me on the open day. I think I know what it's about now :)
We need a follow up to this video!
I submit that you should try shaking a much larger surface to see if the particles keep on moving in the same directions, or if they settle into islands or if other effects are observed. Also, try a round surface. Needless to say, this interests me... please do one of those longer videos, or a follow up when more is known.
Very inspiring.. :Lots of ideas flowing now.. thanks :)
Dan J It seems like it could be connected to Cymatics .
Chladni nodes. They propagate differently when the edge of the surface is clamped and has holes drilled in it, as opposed to a flat square plate with no holes.
What's surprising is that when matter is in a solid state (low amplitude), it clumps together and keeps that form. As it gets hotter (amplitude increases), it tends to become more uniform (gasses expand to fill the available space).
But in this experiment with solid particles, it's other way around.
as someone already mentioned, the plate they are using can not be an absolutely rigid body. So the oscillations of the plate and formation of nodes and anti-nodes are inevitable.
the effect shown here is occurring not because of the change in frequency, but the change in the amplitude, therefore resonance here does not happen as for resonance you need matching frequencies.
Both harder AND faster.
The frequency stays the same. But the total travelling distance increases due to higher amplitudes, which means greater distance from the "zero-level".
And greater distance in equal time means faster.
The force becomes stronger in that process too. The maximum accelleration increases, the mass stays the same, which means more force.
So... Why does the pressure decrease when there is a higher density of particles in one area?
magic
As the particles vibrate horizontal motion seems to be generated by oblique collisions and it's energy is lost in collisions with walls... so if at some frequency particles come into resonance and number of oblique collisions reduce (probably the particles start oscillating parallel to each other and with phase difference nπ) and only vertical collision occur then the pressure due to random horizontal motion reduces... I am not a scientist or an engineer but just guessing a probable reason
because there is a more exerted force on the object in a more simple way,
there are more things that try to replace you.
Pressure decreasing due to particles being near each other has everything to do with particle interaction.
In a quick thought experiment, think about what would happen if all these particles had a magical force of attraction, where they wanted to stay close together. Then it's reasonable that you would expect clumps of matter to form. In this case, the "magical force of attraction" is the energy loss due to oblique collisions between particles. (There's another sixty symbols video that discusses this in more detail).
In the less dense area, particles move faster, and therefore more motion, which is what's called 'more pressure'. In the higher density area, the particles move less (presumably losing their energy to collisions or what have you), and moving less means 'less pressure'.
This is one of the, if not, THE best video on sixtysymbols, thank you very much Brady!
Having watched a lot of Sixty Symbols and other similar videos lately the pattern reminded me of matter forming galaxies right after the big bang, but that is probably true of any group of particles that for whatever reason begin to attract one another into denser areas.
@DemiImp Substantially different size particles may account for the behavior, therefore same sized particles that are clean are useful to rule out these issues.
Agreed, except on the random thing at the start of your comment. Nothing random. Everything still following the laws of physics. It is the human mind (the greatest pattern seeking machine ever discovered) that implies values on what it percieves as patterns
Wow, that's actually quite amazing. Just makes me think about what else is out there that we haven't even tapped in to yet.
the video compression struggles with this so hard. its like the worst case scenario for video compression. amazing.
I like the fact, that you programm a simulation where you know the whole code and however something unknown happens! :)
Dust on machines - vibration frequencies rule granular sizes and dust bunnies. Lots of varients used in mineral extraction. So a Navier-Stokes type analysis of selected grain sizes using better computer programming models of processing flows is always going to be popular in industry.
In the quantum universe there's no truely simple system isolated from everything else.
@frichikendz I'd guess at least part of the reason why that happens is because the liquid is most hot in the middle of the cup and cooler at the sides. Hot water (at least >4deg C) rises and cool water sinks, so small currents are formed which, at the surface, are moving toward the edge.
- do the patters repeat when the experiment is duplicated? - as in certain frequencies trigger spots to form in corresponding areas.
Interesting video!
@Ichijojichan I'm guessing the particles resonate between the top and bottom surfaces at a certain frequency and so they have a lot of kinetic energy, but if they get too crowded and start bumping into each other the resonance stops because the particles are hitting the top and bottom at random times during the up/down cycle.
well, the example i saw was actually metronomes aligning themselves on a board resting on two aluminum cans so that the motion of the metronome would cause the board to move relative to the cans inertial - although metronomes are certainly a type of pendulum =)
Totally interesting research, thanks sixtysymbols.
"Hey, it's the Tetris Guy!" the audience shouts.
This was very well explained imo, nice work.
On the Albert bridge in London troops must break step otherwise some kind of sine wave forms which could cause the bridge to collapse.
I would like to see this experiment done with a circular or cylindrical box. Not that there would be a different result but maybe a different visual output. The computer simulation shows the granules spreading to the corners, as far away from the centre as possibly.
i'd guess that at low amplitudes the granules are oscillated randomly on all three axes,so pressure in all directions are similar, producing a nice uniform distribution of particles.then at a resonant frequency of vibration in one axis (z-height movement of the piston in this case)each particle now resonates in the z axis at the expense of x/y oscillation,such that x/y pressures drop and the particles collect sideways.expectedly the pressure on the glass and baseplate must have greatly increased
@godlyking3 Yes they would because the base of the cell throws the grains up, and they hit the top of the cell and bounce down again, in zero gravity. And so on. When gravity is present theamplitude of oscillation has to be large enough to overcome the effect of gravity so that the particles hit the top plate..
@HotblackDesiat042 When I speak of limiting I mean the point at which the amplitude of the drive signal is sufficient to extend the piston/solenoid to its farthest extent, thus reaching its maximum stroke. Any increase in amplitude beyond that point will be clipped as the piston cannot extend farther. When the amplitude is pushed beyond this point is would be akin to a square wave feed versus the sine wave feed, as that would be the motion the grains would feel.
What a coincedence. I was just putting rice in a snare drum using a paper funnel and I was thinking about possible pattern forming when playing the drum (the drum heads are transparent) inspired by the earlier video with prof. Bowley.
Really interesting experiment. I've seen that happen before but like probably most ppl in the world, I didn't pay much attention to it - and thought the container might be sloped or wobbly, heh
try it in a vaccumn. my theroy is the glass particles are round a bit like an airfoil. as they move rapidly up and down, through the medium of air, the accelerated air flowing over them would cause a pressure drop, hense the clumping tendency from lower pressure air regions. the bernulli principle in action. maybe?
Simplicity is the natural occurring mathematical reciprocal of pseudo randomness, because here-now-forever is this same principle of condensed/tuned frequencies, integrated reciprocals of e-Pi-i resonance imaging.
Basic Physical Observation has to be repeated for changing POV.., different angles for the same principle/"news".
This is what you would get, a tuned interference positioning, if you vibrate the screen in the double slit experiment, at the appropriate frequencies.
from wiki: "In physics, resonance is the tendency of a system to oscillate with greater amplitude at some frequencies than at others"
you can't call resonance whatever. resonance is increase in amplitude because of matching frequencies. resonance has nothing to do here with shown effect.
Most of these videos are interesting and I always enjoy watching them, but this is the most interesting one I've seen in a while. What an odd and counterintuitive effects nature sometimes performs for us. Fascinating!
Good luck with your new science :)
We'll check back in 5 years to see where it's going.
Dr. Sexy makes physics interesting and he has a beautiful smile 🥰 I could watch him read the phone book and be just as hooked! Need more dudes like him in science communication!
Can you guys make more videos on a constant basis. We really appreciate the effort you guys put into filming them.
It's kind of a basic part of the process of analysis to remove as many variables as possible when you're trying to explain an effect. I'd be utterly shocked if they had gone to all this trouble using complex physics to explain this phenomenon only to find it had been the result of an effect they previously explained and understood in the "chlandi's plate" video.
I did not understand why the pressure went down as the density went up. I understand that it is contraintuitive and that it clearly happens, but is there anyway to explain it any further?
And no, this is not a dull subject at all, this is nature and how it works. People who think that nature is dull are just to in love with the illusion of reality we've created.
@peterc1 Actually the 'layers of atmosphere' are due to the Earth's gravity, pulling the gases to it. The denser gases accumulate close to the Earth, while the lighter ones are pushed upwards. The higher you go, the less dense the atmosphere it.
@HotblackDesiat042 @Jebus495, at the beginning he says that he is only changing the amplitude, not the frequency, because amplitude has a greater visual effect on the system, or something like that. So it's amplitude/gain, not frequency.
Fascinating. Please can you furnish with the title of the paper in Phys. Rev. E.?
Have you ever tried putting in some coloured beads? It might help analyse the movement of individual "particles".
@XF0
It's not about my video card, it's that when looking at this glass in real life, at those amplitudes and frequencies, I don't believe you CAN make it out. My video card is very decent. I was also playing off of a Mitch Hedberg joke, that bigfoot actually is blurry.
At a high temperature driven by coherent granule movement, a randomly generated cluster of granules causes a drop in pressure in their region, thus attracting more granules to the cluster? And coherent granule movement is some kind of resonance effect that occurs only at a certain frequency and its multiples of shaking? I'd like to learn more. How about a part two and explain things a bit more?
@boldger13 You can know that the simulation is perfectly flat because you tell it, so I don't think they would've missed that so easily.
I really enjoyed this video, I love seeing what researchers are working on. It's interesting to watch all these little steps in various fields, each pushing human understanding just a notch further.
Has any Physicist, Chemist or Biologist been awarded a Nobel prize, based on their PhD thesis alone?
That's what every budding scientist should be aiming for!
Phil Cole I think Louis de Broglie did.
Phil Cole DeBroglie
Adolfo Holguin yep^^
@Atveurf He said the denser areas were hotter so the pressure was lower causing other particles to collect there. If these related then the center of the star would be low pressure and have more particles, or the out side would be hotter with more partials, but less dense. Neither of these make any sense to me, but that is not my field.
i love how he got so happy with the boxes, awesome!
@HCLivess Yes and if you decompress a gas it gets cold. Play with some air dusters and you will notice this phenomenon.
Is there somewhere I can read all about this like the equations and statistics of the system? Because it actually does seem like a very interesting topic.
Wow! This is a tremendous discovery. It pretty much turns thermodynamics upside down. I think it will have a major impact on the theory of thermal death of the universe. Order appearing out of chaos. Just tremendous!
Kurtlane it doesn't beause this is not a closed system
is there a reason why you cant consider the particles as being in a "liquid" at that amplitude? i think it would also be a great thing to look at the physic in a bigger environement, so you can see how the particles react without hitting two layers constantly, to check if the clumping happens again
+maxime therrien Yes Maxime, I agree with your suggestion to get rid of the 2 layers. I guess getting rid of 1 layer already would give a hint. Does anyone have a link of the relevant publication? Thanks.
Except that what I'm saying has nothing to do with the Chlandi's plate effect. Chlandi's plate patterns emerge at the points on the plate that are not moving up and down, which is not the case in this experiment.
What we have here, ideally, is a plate moving up and down uniformly across it's whole surface, which is why the effect was a surprise to begin with.
@azmanabdula
If it is un-level or warped while vibrating, the grain will migrate towards the lower elevations and expose the higher elevations.
I wish I could thumb up these videos at least a thousand times each!
Trivial response. Everyone knows about the probabilistic nature of physics. But at the macro level there is a clear difference in what is deterministic and what is presumably random.
While the guy in video talked like the it was gas -> liquid -> gas. i could imagine that the first state might actually act more like a solid than a gas.
Though it's not clear from the video if those particles stay pretty much in same place or if they move around like in gas.
Despite of it's simplicity, this may be one of the most amene and interesting sixtysymbols videos to watch. I agree with @Jan1515 that much of it is merit of the edition. Also because Dr. Tetris seems sounds like a lovable person. heh
I wonder if it could be possible to obtain a vacuum zone with this technique in an actual gas...
That's a cool idea: That our universe is vibrating are a frequency such that matter tends to clump like the sand particles in this video! :D
I think you mean it gets rid of the Dark Mass problem, which is the big clumping force. Dark Energy is the big expansion force.
How does this relate to the pendulum effect? As in when you have a bunch of pendulums set up where the motion can cause horizontal movement , they align them selves to tick together. Maybe the impacts vibrating the glass has something to do with this as well (the vibration waves would have to strong enough to have overlapping waves at somewhat similar frequencies)
The laws of thermodynamics do not apply for a system where energy is not conserved: the colliding particles lose energy as the collisions are inelastic and the energy is lost as heat. The surprsing observation is that the system behaves as if it were a thermodynamic system, even though it is not. And there appears to be a surface tension which governs the shape of the two phases.
Perhaps you should try it in a cylindrical chamber, just for interest's sake to see where, if at all it would still clump. The pressure seems to be lower in the corners, is this true?
I'm wondering.... would this also apply to the expansion of the universe. When the coherency of energy is achieved in a certain state- where particles are in chaos in a certain energy caused by the pressure of the expansion to the observation we just saw with the grains.
@thesourceofx Thanks for your input. Perhaps they are not amplifying it to the extent in which limiting occurs. I’m just curious to know if they are reaching, or passing that point in amplitude.
Isn't it kinda like solid -> water -> gas
My bet is that while in "watery from" If we assume that particles are moving at different speeds (some slower others faster) Faster moving particles in less dense space bounce on each other as Slower particles packed tighter.
Can this experiment be done with actual particles, like electrons? Will the expectation be the same? I just want to know because it seems as things get smaller and smaller the quantum mechanical effects may produce something different than what we would expect. Thanks.
@GFxLiquidHandcuffsX that's what it seems like, yes. He says it's a new field of study, so they are probably just trying to figure it out now.
On the computer program why isn't the distribution like regular? Surely it would form some sort of pattern?
Am I understanding this correctly. The lower pressure area has a higher rate of collision. With the higher collision rate the probability that 2 or more particles will hit another at the same time increases thus transfering all that energy into a single particle which ends up pushed into the higher pressure area taking all that energy with it? In other words is the action similar to evaporation?
Hmm. Though it doesnt seem to be related it reminds me of negative temperatures in an system that can receive finite energh, in statistical physics. After one pumps more and more energy, the entropy goes to zero (like in this case, the particles go into one side of the box, lowering the entropy)
I know very very little of physics and science but could this relate to the inner workings of a star? Possibly where the particles of elements are withing the star? Like maybe the core is the hottest so there are more particles on the outskirts of the star?
@eltotoX
Yes, It is by testing, flat and level but maybe they didn't test the flatness while vibrating at high oscillation. I would also like to know how they measured the level. eg Did they use digital instruments?
Varying the amplitude changes the net energy into the system --wouldn't changing the frequency do the same? At what critical point does the pahse transition (chaos-->stocastic) happen? Is this a function of the phase space betweent that transition and the change "back"? How about higher energies? Do you get other phase changes at higher energies? Finally, just curious--what were you looking for when you found this phenomenum?
They need a high speed camera for the motion of the grains
haha! i understand the reference. Yeah. The pressure in a police kettle sure does get higher, as everyone tryes to escape!