THIS! 🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻 1 John 2:26-27 KJV [26] These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. [27] But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
There are no "Holy Spirit-led worship services" in the New Testament as we define them today. The early Church's gatherings were focused on teaching, prayer, fellowship, and breaking bread, not formal, structured worship events. While the Holy Spirit was active in guiding and empowering believers, there’s no mention of organized worship services directed by the Spirit in the way modern churches claim. Instead, the Holy Spirit worked through the believers' daily lives, spontaneous prayer, and shared ministry, not through orchestrated worship services. Worship was a lifestyle, not a scheduled event.
I'm not sure that I completely agree with you. It depends on what you mean when you say. "The early Church's gatherings were focused on teaching, prayer, fellowship, and breaking bread, not formal, structured worship events. " Specifically, on Sunday mornings, our local body, Reformation Baptist Church meets, we open with song and prayer, with reading of scripture, with doctrine and preaching, with a time for men (male heads of household), so led by the Spirit of God to add to that teaching or to ask questions, and close with corporate prayer (male heads of household) singing, and prayer. Then we have a meal together during which we partake in Communion. We would refer to this as a time of corporate worship and believe that it conforms to the teaching of scripture and to the guiding of the Holy Spirit. I would consider it to be formal and structured and done decently and in order. But in those messages, the focus is on the fact that this time of gathering is only a tiny part of the worship that God is due. That the purpose of this time together is to edify the body for the work of the ministry, and to provoke one another to love and good works, which happens all throughout the week and makes up the bulk of our worship. So I agree that worship is a lifestyle, but that lifestyle includes scheduled events and is not the place where the work that God has called his people to is "done", it's a specific type of worship, picturing the worship around God's throne in heaven, but where there will also be work to attend to.
@@TheConqueringTruth The structure and purpose of your church's worship, as you’ve outlined, actually resonate with core elements of New Testament teaching. However, there are key points worth considering in response: First, the notion that early Christian gatherings lacked "formal, structured worship events" doesn't imply chaos or the absence of order but rather reflects a more spontaneous, Spirit-led model of worship. 1 Corinthians 14:26 suggests a flexible approach: "When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up." This shows that early Christian worship involved participation from the congregation, with different members contributing as they were led by the Spirit. Your church's practice of men adding to the teaching or asking questions seems to align with this, demonstrating how the Spirit guides the gathered body. Second, while structured gatherings like the one you described certainly reflect biblical order ("all things should be done decently and in order" - 1 Corinthians 14:40), it's crucial to recognize that the New Testament emphasizes the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding believers, both individually and corporately. The structure of worship isn't the issue-it's whether that structure allows for the Spirit’s leading and for each member to be involved in mutual edification. It sounds like your church does allow for this, which is key to Holy Spirit-led worship. Finally, regarding the idea that worship is a lifestyle and not confined to specific gatherings, this is deeply scriptural. Romans 12:1 speaks of presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, which is our "spiritual worship." Corporate worship gatherings are a part of that lifestyle but not the totality of worship. Your emphasis on worship throughout the week aligns well with New Testament teaching. However, scheduled gatherings can still be Spirit-led, provided they allow the Spirit to move freely among the congregation. In essence, your church's practice of structured worship, if led by the Spirit and focused on edification, is in harmony with New Testament principles, which call for order but also flexibility and participation by all as they are led. "we open with song and prayer, with reading of scripture, with doctrine and preaching, with a time for men (male heads of household), so led by the Spirit of God to add to that teaching or to ask questions, and close with corporate prayer (male heads of household) singing, and prayer. " A critique of the described worship structure based on the New Testament model of Holy Spirit-led gatherings raises the following questions and observations: 1. Who is "we"? The description refers to "we" as the ones opening with song, prayer, and engaging in teaching. However, it's unclear who "we" includes. Is this the entire congregation, or is it limited to a select group, such as the male heads of households? The New Testament portrays gatherings as inclusive, where all believers-male and female, young and old-are part of the body of Christ (Galatians 3:28). If only men are permitted to speak, add to the teaching, or ask questions, this could be seen as a narrowing of participation compared to early church gatherings, where diverse members contributed as led by the Spirit (1 Corinthians 14:26). 2. Is this structure truly Spirit-led? While the structure described seems organized, it raises the question of whether the Holy Spirit is truly leading the gathering or if human-imposed order is taking precedence. In 1 Corinthians 14, Paul emphasizes that worship gatherings should be marked by spontaneous contributions from the body as the Spirit leads-whether through a hymn, teaching, revelation, or interpretation. The structure outlined here appears rigid, with designated roles and times for participation. How does this structure allow for the spontaneous leading of the Holy Spirit? For instance, if someone other than the male heads of households feels prompted by the Spirit to contribute, is there room for that? 3. Is a Pastor involved in the leading? The description omits any mention of a Pastor or elder leading the service, raising questions about who is guiding the gathering. The New Testament does provide for leadership within the church (e.g., elders, overseers), but their role is to shepherd and guide the flock, not to monopolize the service. If the gathering is structured around male heads of households, how is the Spirit guiding the broader body, and is there a risk of turning the worship gathering into a formulaic routine rather than a Spirit-directed time of edification for all? 4. Participation limited to "male heads of household": The stipulation that only male heads of households contribute to the teaching or ask questions seems at odds with the New Testament's depiction of the church as a body with many parts, each playing a vital role (1 Corinthians 12:12-27). While there are instructions in the New Testament about orderly conduct in worship (e.g., 1 Timothy 2:11-12), there’s no direct command that restricts participation solely to male heads of households. In the early church, both men and women were given spiritual gifts to use for the common good (1 Corinthians 12:7), and their gatherings involved various members contributing as the Spirit led. 5. Real leadership-who is in charge? The description suggests that male heads of households lead the corporate prayer and contribute to the teaching, but it is unclear whether they are being directed by a Pastor or if they are functioning as de facto leaders. If there is a Pastor or elder overseeing the service, how is their role defined? Are they acting as facilitators of Spirit-led contributions from the body, or is their leadership more authoritative? The New Testament emphasizes a form of shared leadership, where elders guide but the Spirit is free to move among the entire body (Ephesians 4:11-13). If the service is controlled or overly managed, it may limit the Spirit's ability to inspire the whole congregation. In conclusion, while the structure described seeks to maintain order and facilitate worship, there are valid concerns about whether it aligns with the New Testament model of Holy Spirit-led gatherings. The early church was characterized by openness to the Spirit's leading through all members of the body, not just a select few. The focus should be on fostering an environment where the Spirit can move freely, allowing the entire congregation-male and female-to participate as they are led.
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the level of detail you went to. I've read it once and will read it again later. One thing in particular stood out to me. It's odd that you reference 1 Corinthians 14 to encourage spontaneous contribution (which we do provide time for) but do not recognize that this chapter also tells women to be silent in the church. (and it's male heads of household because if wives are not permitted to speak because they are under authority, then their sons who are under their mother's authority should not be teaching and speaking in the assembly either) I didn't mention elders because I wasn't trying to describe every aspect of polity, but was responding to your comment which I took as being more focused in its context. Charles
Wow!
Has got to be one of the best episodes yet! Extremely helpful!
Thank you dearly!
THIS!
🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻
1 John 2:26-27 KJV
[26] These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you,
and ye need not that any man teach you:
but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things,
and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
There are no "Holy Spirit-led worship services" in the New Testament as we define them today. The early Church's gatherings were focused on teaching, prayer, fellowship, and breaking bread, not formal, structured worship events. While the Holy Spirit was active in guiding and empowering believers, there’s no mention of organized worship services directed by the Spirit in the way modern churches claim. Instead, the Holy Spirit worked through the believers' daily lives, spontaneous prayer, and shared ministry, not through orchestrated worship services. Worship was a lifestyle, not a scheduled event.
I'm not sure that I completely agree with you. It depends on what you mean when you say. "The early Church's gatherings were focused on teaching, prayer, fellowship, and breaking bread, not formal, structured worship events. "
Specifically, on Sunday mornings, our local body, Reformation Baptist Church meets, we open with song and prayer, with reading of scripture, with doctrine and preaching, with a time for men (male heads of household), so led by the Spirit of God to add to that teaching or to ask questions, and close with corporate prayer (male heads of household) singing, and prayer. Then we have a meal together during which we partake in Communion. We would refer to this as a time of corporate worship and believe that it conforms to the teaching of scripture and to the guiding of the Holy Spirit. I would consider it to be formal and structured and done decently and in order.
But in those messages, the focus is on the fact that this time of gathering is only a tiny part of the worship that God is due. That the purpose of this time together is to edify the body for the work of the ministry, and to provoke one another to love and good works, which happens all throughout the week and makes up the bulk of our worship.
So I agree that worship is a lifestyle, but that lifestyle includes scheduled events and is not the place where the work that God has called his people to is "done", it's a specific type of worship, picturing the worship around God's throne in heaven, but where there will also be work to attend to.
@@TheConqueringTruth The structure and purpose of your church's worship, as you’ve outlined, actually resonate with core elements of New Testament teaching. However, there are key points worth considering in response:
First, the notion that early Christian gatherings lacked "formal, structured worship events" doesn't imply chaos or the absence of order but rather reflects a more spontaneous, Spirit-led model of worship. 1 Corinthians 14:26 suggests a flexible approach: "When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up." This shows that early Christian worship involved participation from the congregation, with different members contributing as they were led by the Spirit. Your church's practice of men adding to the teaching or asking questions seems to align with this, demonstrating how the Spirit guides the gathered body.
Second, while structured gatherings like the one you described certainly reflect biblical order ("all things should be done decently and in order" - 1 Corinthians 14:40), it's crucial to recognize that the New Testament emphasizes the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding believers, both individually and corporately. The structure of worship isn't the issue-it's whether that structure allows for the Spirit’s leading and for each member to be involved in mutual edification. It sounds like your church does allow for this, which is key to Holy Spirit-led worship.
Finally, regarding the idea that worship is a lifestyle and not confined to specific gatherings, this is deeply scriptural. Romans 12:1 speaks of presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, which is our "spiritual worship." Corporate worship gatherings are a part of that lifestyle but not the totality of worship. Your emphasis on worship throughout the week aligns well with New Testament teaching. However, scheduled gatherings can still be Spirit-led, provided they allow the Spirit to move freely among the congregation.
In essence, your church's practice of structured worship, if led by the Spirit and focused on edification, is in harmony with New Testament principles, which call for order but also flexibility and participation by all as they are led.
"we open with song and prayer, with reading of scripture, with doctrine and preaching, with a time for men (male heads of household), so led by the Spirit of God to add to that teaching or to ask questions, and close with corporate prayer (male heads of household) singing, and prayer. "
A critique of the described worship structure based on the New Testament model of Holy Spirit-led gatherings raises the following questions and observations:
1. Who is "we"?
The description refers to "we" as the ones opening with song, prayer, and engaging in teaching. However, it's unclear who "we" includes. Is this the entire congregation, or is it limited to a select group, such as the male heads of households? The New Testament portrays gatherings as inclusive, where all believers-male and female, young and old-are part of the body of Christ (Galatians 3:28). If only men are permitted to speak, add to the teaching, or ask questions, this could be seen as a narrowing of participation compared to early church gatherings, where diverse members contributed as led by the Spirit (1 Corinthians 14:26).
2. Is this structure truly Spirit-led?
While the structure described seems organized, it raises the question of whether the Holy Spirit is truly leading the gathering or if human-imposed order is taking precedence. In 1 Corinthians 14, Paul emphasizes that worship gatherings should be marked by spontaneous contributions from the body as the Spirit leads-whether through a hymn, teaching, revelation, or interpretation. The structure outlined here appears rigid, with designated roles and times for participation. How does this structure allow for the spontaneous leading of the Holy Spirit? For instance, if someone other than the male heads of households feels prompted by the Spirit to contribute, is there room for that?
3. Is a Pastor involved in the leading?
The description omits any mention of a Pastor or elder leading the service, raising questions about who is guiding the gathering. The New Testament does provide for leadership within the church (e.g., elders, overseers), but their role is to shepherd and guide the flock, not to monopolize the service. If the gathering is structured around male heads of households, how is the Spirit guiding the broader body, and is there a risk of turning the worship gathering into a formulaic routine rather than a Spirit-directed time of edification for all?
4. Participation limited to "male heads of household":
The stipulation that only male heads of households contribute to the teaching or ask questions seems at odds with the New Testament's depiction of the church as a body with many parts, each playing a vital role (1 Corinthians 12:12-27). While there are instructions in the New Testament about orderly conduct in worship (e.g., 1 Timothy 2:11-12), there’s no direct command that restricts participation solely to male heads of households. In the early church, both men and women were given spiritual gifts to use for the common good (1 Corinthians 12:7), and their gatherings involved various members contributing as the Spirit led.
5. Real leadership-who is in charge?
The description suggests that male heads of households lead the corporate prayer and contribute to the teaching, but it is unclear whether they are being directed by a Pastor or if they are functioning as de facto leaders. If there is a Pastor or elder overseeing the service, how is their role defined? Are they acting as facilitators of Spirit-led contributions from the body, or is their leadership more authoritative? The New Testament emphasizes a form of shared leadership, where elders guide but the Spirit is free to move among the entire body (Ephesians 4:11-13). If the service is controlled or overly managed, it may limit the Spirit's ability to inspire the whole congregation.
In conclusion, while the structure described seeks to maintain order and facilitate worship, there are valid concerns about whether it aligns with the New Testament model of Holy Spirit-led gatherings. The early church was characterized by openness to the Spirit's leading through all members of the body, not just a select few. The focus should be on fostering an environment where the Spirit can move freely, allowing the entire congregation-male and female-to participate as they are led.
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the level of detail you went to. I've read it once and will read it again later.
One thing in particular stood out to me. It's odd that you reference 1 Corinthians 14 to encourage spontaneous contribution (which we do provide time for) but do not recognize that this chapter also tells women to be silent in the church. (and it's male heads of household because if wives are not permitted to speak because they are under authority, then their sons who are under their mother's authority should not be teaching and speaking in the assembly either)
I didn't mention elders because I wasn't trying to describe every aspect of polity, but was responding to your comment which I took as being more focused in its context.
Charles