The Witcher 3 PC - Next-Gen - Game-Changing Visuals But What About Performance?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Alex Battaglia presents the DF tech review for The Witcher 3's next-gen upgrade, as running on PC. Running through the entire gamut of upgrades, including the game-changing ray tracing effects, the patch modernises The Witcher 3 with top-tier RT visuals. Unfortunately, there are substantial problems with performance that cannot be overlooked - and perhaps surprisingly, it's the CPU that is taxed the most. These problems are not addressed in the hotfix patch.
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9:50 I find it really weird that you don't mention HBAO+ at all. The grass didn't look even nearly as bad with it on and the performance cost was negligible. HBAO+ was removed with the next gen update, which is a huge shame.
@@speedtree i tried using nvidia game filter. It's better than no AO, but still suboptimal. It adds some artifacts to UI and underwater, the shading on Geralt's face can look weird, etc. Hopefully they'll restore HBAO+ with the patch in the future, but i'm not holding my breath.
He's not a hater man. Dude got his hands spilling with work can't blame him. Infact the whole DF was one of the very few ones who actually said good things about CP2077 when it came out. They always speak very highly of their games.
nah its the same u just coping
I find quite suspicious the game doesn't have HBAO+ a feature that works great on any GPU, and the only solution is heavy ray tracing. That the game is so CPU bottlenecked that makes DLSS3 a necessity. That a game from 2015 is now more demanding than CP2077 and only performs well enough in the overpriced 4080 and 4090
I can not avoid the feeling CDPR has sold their soul to the devil. A devil called NVIDIA
@@speedtree You can even get RTGI using reshade and there is no performance drop like you get from the ingame RT.
I think there should be advanced options for RT rather than just "ON/OFF", like we have in Marvel's Spider-Man.
Thank you for specifying Marvel’s spider-man. I may have been confused with some other Spider-man. 😊
Portal RTX would be a better example as Spider-Man only features shadows and reflections
There already are options like that in the game
@@temjin0014 Funny, but that is literally what the game is called.
@@connorc44 Not for RT. its simply On or Off, and Global Illumination must be turned on for the rest to be used aswell.
I'm surprised Alex didn't mention the removal of HBAO+, which is a huge loss for those unable to run RT at playable framerates.
Also, its insane that DX12 is causing a 30% or more performance hit right off that bat. No wonder RT runs terribly, when its base FPS is already 30% lower.
Doesn't seem like a huge loss because SSAO seems improved (probably more resolution and samples) compared to the original version.
HBAO+ is still in the game but you have to activated it in the .ini file SSAO = 2
@@valentinardemon really? That's cool, thanks, if it works!
@@valentinardemon Are you sure? I just tried this and it didn't seem to make a difference.
@NelyL Ok, I just verify, so yes and no, you have to put the old dll back into the game folder, good luck finding it without the old build ... sorry for the false information ...
That camera jitter has been driving me _crazy!_ I keep trying to figure out what's going on if there's some bottleneck or frames dropping or if the camera really is just snapping around even though the framerate is steady. Thanks for the rundown Alex. Happy Holidays!
It happens even if you're just sprinting on foot. The camera looks like it's speeding up and slowing down constantly.
This is my biggest issue, it’s infuriating, I won’t be playing until they fix it
I haven't noticed it, thankfully
Bro I didn't know what that was until I saw this lol. I thought it was something wrong with the motion blur
@@antont4974 so lucky, I’ve got a 3070/12600k so this shouldn’t be happening
Now Cyberpunk 2077 runs better than The Witcher 3... What a time to be alive... 😂
🤣🤣
Showed Skellige, Emperors Palace, Novigrad, Toussaint, Kaer Morhen - Thanks for not just showing White Orchard. Saw a lot of White Orchard videos last week :P
Hope you guys release the usual optimised settings video soon!
dx11 all maxed out seems to be the best optimised settings atm
Rtx 4090 is the optomised setting 😅☝️
Just play DX11, DX12 sucks balls.
DX12 is trash. Use DX11
Lol optimised setting = dx11, no brainer
I have a 3080 and 5800x 3d and had some crazy frame drops. It seemed somewhat random too, sometimes it stuttered like crazy
Same here. No matter if is locked 60fps or even 30fps, it freezes every time
😂
Running i9-9900k and RTX 3080 and it’s ROUGH to say the least w/RT effects on. Turning off RT and cranking all Ultra+ options up its wonderful. Also, HDR is very well integrated not only on consoles but on PC as well.
Have a 3080 and 5600x and my frames are also up and down
Same. RTX 3080 and i7 8700K. Game looks gorgeous with RTX, but fps's low & it stutters like crazy.
Sure, cpu's a bit old, but hey, this game is almost 8 years old. And much more cpu intensive Cyberpunk 2077 works fine.
Problem with Witcher 3's RT implementation is that everything is locked behind the super demanding RT GI option and there is no option to tweak RT quality. So there is no way to use just RT Reflections or shadows or AO. They need to decouple RT GI from the rest of RT settings. For example I can live without super demanding RT GI, but I would like to use just the RT reflections only, which are far less demanding.
they could also bake the RT shadows and color data, my 3060 has like 8 gigs of unutilized ram for textures.
I don't think it works that way, without GI there are no rays to be traced for those reflections.
@@raimondse8386 It can still be improved by changing the denoising quality, amount of rays and bounces, distance,... But as it is now GI is all or nothing.
Just wonder why they removed HBAO+ from the settings. It looked better than SSAO, and I can't run RT, so I'm kinda stuck with worse looking shadows than 1.32 had. I think that's why the original looks 'weirdly unshaded and two dimensional', if you're comparing it to just RT off in the updated game, it's not using HBAO+, while HBAO+ doesn't look nearly as unshaded and two dimensional in 1.32
Use MXAO from Reshade
I'm pretty sure you can roll back to the previous version of Witcher 3 via steam's beta branch. It's not ideal but it's at least an option for people who were happy with the game as it was.
@@Manupaya24 Reshade and any other post-processing effects like SSAO / SSRTGI via Nvidia Freestyle will works a slightly incorrectly, because it does not participate in the traditional rendering queee, and applies on top of the finished picture - it will be show up through the interface, through the fogs in the forest in the distance, and through the near effects like frozen Aard.
Honestly the Digital Foundry crew are really licking boots for this release. Shame.
Sidenote just tried MXAO and it flickers like crazy, can't figure out why
Wish you'd mentioned that they have removed HBAO+ from the game.
The old ultra settings are not at all related to the 4.0 ultra setting, grass density on Ultra was 2400 on the .ini file now it's the medium setting that is at 2400 the high setting is at 3200. Same thing for foliage distance the ultra setting was 1.5 in the .ini file and you cant go higher than 2.0 without having stutter, now on the 4.0 version the high setting is at 1.5. So it is not just dx12, I have both build on my computer and if you try the new ultra+ (.ini file) on the old version the game stutter like crazy to.
That explains the heavy performance. Thank you!
I also noticed that.
I have a 1650 Super, I just brought the game before the update and I was able to play just fine at 60 FPS locked at high settings (medium foliage distance for having keeping the GPU usage far from the 90%), and with this update, I can only keep the same performance profile outside villages or cities and inside the cities I need Dynamic res.
In the end, the visual fidelity of the new Temporal solutions for AA is awesome, but yesterday I was testing out lower settings like medium or low, and I immediatilly noticed that something was wrong, the graphics at low or even medium (aside from textures) were visible much but much better than what we had the original at the same settings.
What I can't tell is what exactly did change aside from foliage density, shadows looked better for me, but it can be placebo.
I wish CDPR was more verbose in what really changed in the settings too, because CDPR is receiving backlash because of the performance with this new update.
Also, IMO they should have kept the settings at the same values and leave the improvements for the new Ultra+ settings, but apparently that's not what they done, people that were already struggling to play this game with low graphics and low framerates, they now have an unplayable game.
@@RockyRacoon5
Might explain a bit of it but defo not all.
@@BenchARTVideos I will try to post the old settings find in the .ini file. But new textures and asset cant be turned of, so I can imagine 5 to 10 fps less with the same settings. But if you want a quick optimisation : .ini : foliage distance 1.8 (if lower you dont have long shadows), grass distance 1.5, grass density 2400, shadows in medium (old ultra).For the rest, the ultra settings in game are fine, unless you have a big cpu bottleneck, in this case lower crowds density
Holy SHIT!, I just looked at the 3:26 comparasion, opened the game, and put the game on low settings (4.0 version), and even on low, it have all that wooden plates vear the trees.
This guys seriously upgraded the draw distance that even the low settings it's still way and above the original one.
FFS they shoudl have made this update a different executable, people with low end hardware will be mad! Actually no setting change that distance.
Thank you so much for talking about the issues where the camera will slow down, suddenly speed up and appear stuttery even with perfect frametimes. There is also a really bad stutter that happens every time Geralt transitions from walking to jogging, super noticeable if you move the stick slowly. I think it's due to these camera issues, not Geralt's actual movement a lot of people dislike the way movement feels in this game. I was shocked that these issues weren't fixed in this update. Thankfully there is a mod that fixes it. Hoping that the devs see this video and fixes an issue that has been bugging me for about 6 years. Haha
What's the mod
@@pawanjotsingh4505 The mod is "Smooth Camera Motion" and there's also "Smooth Mount and Dismount" for horse camera transition
RTX on, FPS off...
😂
Can someone please tell me why trees and foliage moves so much less with this update? Always loved the windy trees in Witcher 3.
+1 it hits hard on realism and living breathing nature
Prolly because alpha based foliage is hard to ray trace, if u add movement to it, it just adds alotta noise to the scene. (Just ask epic games, they choose to make trees have individual polygon leaves instead of alpha textures for fortnite cause its ez-er to deal with)
Because it has now a more natural feeling, then 24/7 storm where the trees nearly hitting the ground.
It should move even less. I always find it ridiculous and breaking realism when trees constantly move like it is storm, and it is nice, sunny and calm day.
I'm so glad they fixed that, no one has actually mentioned it in these videos but the wind effects on the trees and Geralt's hair is greatly improved. Base game could vary wildly even indoors
18:30
Yes! Thank you! I knew something was off even when I had a perfect lock with my FPS cap. Even with the hotfix this camera stutter is really annoying.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Happy Holidays!
I was able to resolve most of the stuttering by turning on triple buffering and setting virtual reality prerendered frames to 3 in the NVCP. It still happens from time to time but it no longer happens when panning the camera around.
@@Code-n-Flame I don't know how this will apply to me.
I'm using a 38 FPS cap with RTSS on my GSYNC Display.
@@Code-n-Flame There's a mod called "Smooth Camera Motion" which will sort out the rest of it. And "Smooth Mount and Dismount" which'll fix the camera stutter when getting on/off Roach
they also got rid of hbao+ which is FAR superior AO than SSAO, such a shame. i like hbao+ so much.
Stop telling people the truth, Nvidia needs to sell more RTX 4090.
Can you please stop telling everyone this secret.
im gonna stick with the 1.32 version of the game till HBAO+ is back in 4.0
DF should have mention it in the video. This is sad.
camera stutters a lot as well when riding Roach while the camera is set to Automatically Center. i found that turning that off helped to remove some of that stutter.
Its picking up too much color in the bounce lighting in the towns. Everything looks overly warm, almost sepia tone.
Omg... I've been waiting for you guys! I think I know why it's a little late.
I hope they bring us a patch before the end of the year.(Hotfix isn't enough.)
lol of course they will patch it, but first they need you to buy the lastest nvd gpus to unlock their nvidia's bribe...
One really annoying thing I have found as well is the RTX global illumination lighting pop in. As I run around (particularly in beauclair) the lighting pop ins like crazy all over buildings and the ground with RTXGI. I assume the probes they use for the light bounce are too sparce at medium distance.
yea i noticed extremely obvious light pop in while running through the long tunnel to kaer trolde in skellige
@@repker Also in caves it's pretty annoying.
Honestly after a few hours playing and toying around with RTX I've switched back to no RTX. I don't like the ray tracing look overall on the witcher. I know I'm a very tiny minority but, even if it looks awesome in screenshots, when you start roaming around I'm really bothered by the lights popping in and the high contrasts on pretty much every bush and tree. Makes my eyes bleed in a couple hours playing.
@@repker This, for some reason, was the absolute most notable and annoying. I just finished a session and running through that tunnel up to Kaer Trolde; I was constantly noticing the lighting pop-in.
yeah the pop in kills it for me
11 months later and still not fixed. Like wtf.
DX11 with Ultra + settings is the way to go for me. Best performance with my testing
you can get even better performance if you go to low
It really does feel like this is yet another title designed to run like crap on everything unless you have DLSS3 frame generation turned on. Basically a marketing tool for that feature. The fact that this game's RT brings even the 3090ti and a 13900K to its knees despite not being all that impressive (compared to other games that would do the same) is proof of that.
Shhhh, let them shill for portal rtx and Witcher 3 which run worse on a 3090ti today than they ran on a rx580 5 years ago lol.
@@ancientflames well these guys don't pay for those expensive GPUs they get em as review perks
The "next gen" version should be a optional build to select and download from Steam.
Thank God I still have the latest GOG offline installer, before this "next gen" version :)
Happy holidays, Alex, and thank you for the reviewing all the Witcher 3 problems, which are massive. I thought already that something is terribly wrong with my pc rig, but then have red the forums and watched this video, which put everything on its places. Once again, happy holidays and thank you!
Mine keeps crashing
18:45 It stutters without Nvidia Reflex, or AMD Anti-Lag on. Becomes relatively smooth with them turned on.
DLSS3 is making me so angry.
There is just not justification for developers to rely on this niche feature to compensate for optimization incompetence.
This is a remaster for a 2015 game, the most advanced CPU out there cant run it at 60fps without fake frames from a $1000 card, this is absurd.
so basically you need a 4090 to overcome the disastrous job done on optimization. well done!
@@capablanc Yes, so silly of me! I'm gonna buy two of those! Seriously, what's going on with all these "latest" PC titles it's really underwhelming, there's almost no single game that doesn't present issues of some sort. What's driving me crazy in this specific case is the horrible frame pacing and stuttering, and this on a 10700k+3080, which is not that bad in the end. I wasn't expecting a perfect update but also not this next gen trainwreck....
The funny thing is on reddit I have found these devs to use dated files.
People literally making tutorials how to copy files from a new game to make this run better.
WTF is going on in the PC Game industry???
@@N0N0111 Crunch, deadlines and mismanagement is happening. Slapping DLSS 2/3 or FSR into a game is most likely a lot easier than proper optimization.
@Luclosergiosatilina Or play without RT
@@Faron93what crunch? what deadline?This wasn't cyberpunk. No one asked them to rush it out.
On a bit of a tangent, I hope when it comes to CPU reviews from tech reviewers in general, that we start to see more ray tracing tests along with the 1080p tests to measure a CPUs performance in gaming. It seems like with newer releases having much more in terms of ray tracing than before, we see the CPU being the limiting factor like in the case of Spider-Man Remastered/Miles Morales.
Ray tracing is not being handled by the CPU... Can you explain what you mean?
@@lukastemberger ray tracing is both CPU and GPU intensive
@@SomethingCool51 is it?
@@Superdelphinus it is
@@walce79 Really, though? Really?
For any one wondering: RT performance in 2024 is much better and the DX12 is playable now
Hoping for an optimized settings video soon! :D
Won't matter until CPU utilization is ironed out. Which may be never.
nothing will matter until further patches bro, unfortunately, issue is too deep to solve unless they do a proper DX12 version anyway so best to play DX11 version and try the new version in a few years when hardware is so powerful it can even run trash like this.
I'm quite sad about the performance. The visuals are beautiful, so I want to play it again on max settings with RT, but my with my 3700X I get around 35FPS looking out off the balcony at the start of the game. I'm hoping that CDPR manages to improve the performance at least a bit
UPDATE: The hotfix from today seems to have improved performance in but by a tiny amount. It's now a GPU issue. My 2070S is not enough anymore Sadge.
Impregnate?
@@Thelango99 Autocorrect infected by my anime girl posting xD
I plan on getting a 15900K CPU in late 2024: rumored huge IPC gains (~30%) and who knows what GPU will catch my attention always in late 2024 (maybe an RTX 5080). And all will be plenty to play this Next Gen version of The Witcher 3 at high framerate.... or you could consider a mid-tier GPU (like an RTX 4070 which with Frame Generation tech will probably be plenty for 60+ fps all the time in this game).
@@Z3t487 stop relying on frame generation tech.. Just wait until gpus are powerful enough to generate fps naturally rather than some fake shit that halves the quality.. Seriously your paying a tax on making your games lower quality through this garbage
@@Z3t487 RTX 5080 for the low price of 1500? I really hope we get 80 class under 1000 again...
There is a translation layer DX11 --> DX12. This is not a native DX12 port hence the performance drop when going from one version to another.
Is it actually confirmed? Just curious, where is the source for this?
so does that mean the developers could reasonably fix it, or we just have to wait for future CPU's?
There is probably a way to optimize it a little but dont get your hopes up
@@lukeskywalker233 Thank god for dlss 3, I don't want to buy a 500$ cpu just for 60 fps in witcher....
Great job, as always Alex! However, I really hope they'll get their act together soon.
Getting this thing to run properly on Steam Deck - without major dips - is such a pain.
only real option right now is to revert back to the "classic" version
@@TheEnduringCitizen I actually disagree with that. DX11 seems to be the best bet for now, since Classic will both ditch all improvements and kill your save-game compatibility.
@@deckverse if that's what you feel better with go for it, I personally feel that the classic version offers a much more stable experience on the steam deck and thats more important to me.
@@TheEnduringCitizen Fair enough. :)
Idk why you’d expect this to run well on the deck. Most of the enhancements would obviously need to be disabled to run decently on the steam deck, even if it was better optimized. The deck isn’t made to handle ray tracing.
I want a Performance RT mode. I love the shadows and the ambient light. When there’s dawn the shadows are orange as well. Everything is orange.
So the top of the line GPU is trashed by this update….that’s absurd. It’s 8 years old. Horribly optimized
Pitch black shadows during daylight👍🏻
12700KF here and the hotfix patch they released definitely helped at stabilising the stutter and CPU use but it's still also definitely an issue in areas like Novigrad. NPC heavy areas I can see the fps drop to the low 50s or low 40s, whilst out in the open it's more like 70fps.
The other weird thing is that the CPU utilisation remains poor even inside a building in Novigrad. The walls are blocking any view of the city, so you'd expect the engine to not be processing that data that isn't visible to the player, but it seems to still be doing just that, so whatever fps you get outside a building in Novigra, you'll get the same low fps inside a building too.
Nevertheless, I am playing wih a Gsync QD-OLED monitor and the motion and VRR do elevate the perceived fps to something much smoother/higher as a result.
Specs ref: 12700KF, 64GB DDR4, 3080 Ti FE @ 90% power limit, 3440x1440, Ultra+, All RT enabled, Hairworkds OFF due to the glitching, DLSS set to Performance. I can't reasonably tell much difference between Balanced and Performance in this game so prefer the higher FPS Performance affords. until CDPR fix the CPU limitations of the engine. It can be done because they did the exact same thing with Cyberpunk...
Although given that the next gen update is a DX12 wrapper on top of DX11, not sure if they are going to be willing to put any effort into fixing the issues with perf sadly....
There's some weird shit going on for sure...they say CPU limited but I'm looking at my usage and not a single core is above 50% but my GPU usage (in towns usually) drops back down to 80%. The hotfix did fix the GPU usage in heavy foliage/forests, get an extra 10-15 fps cause my GPU isn't stuck at 80%. Biggest improvement is definitely the smoothness of gameplay, feels like an extra 5-10 fps from what I'm actually getting...very playable at 35-45 fps
Very interesting, I learned in this video that being CPU limited doesn't always look like having 1 or 2 cores at 100% but can actually look like it did in the video. Great dive into this and I really hope for improvements... it's probably one of the best looking games ever with the new features, they just run at a pretty unplayable framerate especially when you throw the stuttering into the picture.
It pretty much never looks like having 100% on a single CPU thread, because that's not how modern multithreading works - the CPU scheduler "juggles" the application threads around the CPU threads way too fast for you to ever see it 100%, you see some kind of "running average" across several CPU threads (cores, if you want). And it's doubly deceiving if you only look at the overall CPU utilization, not individual cores/CPU threads, since on say a 16 thread CPU, you can be single thread limited with overall CPU utilization around 8%.
CPU usage on modern multithreading is a really tricky thing, and even most HW channels or benchmarkers frequently completely misunderstand/misinterpret what their numbers mean, and especially what those numbers *don't* mean...
@@Case_ I have a problem with the combat sounds. When my swords hit, they sound compressed. FYI, I play on PC. No matter what sound settings I change to in the game, my swords still sound muffled. What gives? How do I fix this issue?
@@cadethumann8605I have no idea. How do you jump from someone tallking about multithreading performance methodology to audio issue that's likely specific to your setup?
@Case_ I'm just shooting blindly looking for help. I tried posting on the witcher 3 subreddit but no one came by. I don't know where to turn to.
Wow. This is the most comprehensive video I've seen yet showing the differences, the awesome things and the not-so-awesome things. I myself am on an AMD Ryzen 5 3600 with a, ugh, GTX 1660. But when I first played The Witcher 3, I was on an AMD Phenom X3 720BE (I had the 4th core unlocked due to a special setting in my motherboard) with a GTX 550. LOL! 30 fps was manageable, but not completely. When I upgraded after that PC died to my current platform as I stated earlier, I was shocked at how smooth the game was and had to as myself how in the world did I play this game on that old rig?
Fast forward to today with the next gen update. I can get 60 FPS in DX12 mode most of the time, but definitely there are framerate drops in various areas, even when I go into White Orchard at the beginning of the game near the tavern. It will drop to low 50s. I haven't seen anything go below that. This is on high setting at 1920x1080 as that is the max my monitor can do at 60Hz.
I did a comparison myself between DX11 and DX12 and couldn't really see much of a visual difference. In fact, for me, FSR 2.0 makes the environment more blurry to me than using say TXAA in the DX11 version. Might be because I can only run at 1080p as that is what my monitor is capable of at 60hz as well. So that might be why FSR doesn't really improve anything for me other than possible get me a few extra FPS in DX12.
So I'll probably stick with the DX11 version. I'm just glad they give you the option to use either one without having to uninstall one to use the other (like in the Resident Evil 2/3 remakes and RE 7 where you have to go to Beta mode to get the DX11 versions).
Great video and have a safe and happy holidays and a Happy New Year!
You had an amazing year Alex, your work for the PC community doesn't go unnoticed!
You're saying it like he's going away.
@@FR4M3Sharma You can recognize someone's incredible work while they're still active and alive, my guy.
@@thanosthemadtitan5518 I know, that's why I'm telling him that he's saying it like he's going away.
Chiming in here dudes. I, for one, was not alarmed that Alex might be leaving based on the wording of this high compliment. It is the end of the year after all, and Alex's work did in fact not go unnoticed!
Its also important to console gamers, they need to know what to expect in 10 years time :)
CDPR half asses a December release? Who could have seen this coming?
So you're telling me... this half assed update is basically an advertisement for NVIDIA 40 series frame generation just like Portal RTX... lmao
My thoughts.
- HBAO+ was removed from the game and made a huge visual difference with very little performance cost. I'm sure it was removed to make the RT AO stand out more. I'm currently using reshade with MXAO and it looks pretty much like HBAO+ although there are some weird visual issues depending on how the volumetric lighting is viewed.
- DX12 wrapper is poorly optimized and there is zero visual difference vs DX11 when RT and DLSS are off, CDPR is just spinning that as an excuse for the huge fps hit in DX12
- while we all appreciate the effort of putting this patch together, besides RT almost all of the improvements are from existing user mods. The RT is really the major thing CDPR added and it's not even implemented properly and completely unoptimized.
- hoping the performance issues in DX12 and RT can be fixed! If you don't have a GPU with frame generation I highly recommend keeping RT off and playing in DX11 for superior performance and a much smoother experience.
I love DLSS, so I'm using the DX12 version with RT switched off until they can optimize it further. Even my 4090 has issues maintaining a minimum of 60 fps at 4kDLSS quality.
Yeah, after the update I had to revert to just running it in DX11 mode. These new graphics are just way too expensive for me running a Razer Blade RTX 3060 connected to a 4k monitor. Maybe if I was only gaming on the 1080p laptop screen it would be feasible. Just running it in DX11 on Ultra at 1440p full screen on my 4k monitor. I'm happy with the look and feel at the same time gaming like that. The game is awesome regardless.
My RTX3090 is already outdated since the nvidia recommends me to turn off the raytracing of the game in the optimization.
what a way to push new hardware lol
Nvidia wants you to spend 2k a year if you want to keep up.
It’s hard to take this dude as serious after the Stellar Blade drama lmao
thankful for the free update but there are downgrades (yes, a few downgrades are there like incorrect shading, blown out interiors, removal of HBAO+, etc. in the update when RT(i.e RTAO) is off) and Raytracing makes the game look deviated from it's original Art style which is also an issue.
I’m glad 0.01 pc of gamers can enjoy this in all its 4090 glory
You also forgot to mention on AMD gpus you need to manually turn on antilag from AMD control panel to avoid frametime spikes in RTX, the NVIDIA antilag is on by default.
HBAO+ is also sorely missed in the new update. SSAO is a huge downgrade in comparison when you can't use RT features.
The hot fix basically fixed frame times for the most part, there is still a long way to go. They need to fix cpu bottlenecking in dense areas and stuttering in cutscenes.
Just wanted to drop in and say that it seems like the CPU issue in DX12 has been fixed as of patch 4.0.3. At least in my testing, I can see my GPU being utilized at 98% even with DLSS set to performance. (used to range from 50-70%) I pushed all RT features on and enabled everything to max. With a 3080ti and 5800x, i frame lock it to 40fps for my 120hz 4k panel and it runs extremely smooth. Before the patch the frame pacing was awful and there was no way to create a smooth experience. Might be worth another look at some point.
Jittery when moving the camera and shader compilation issues are the biggest downside of PC gaming I encountered after moving from console to PC
The reason why DX11 have etter perfomnce it's because it's already optimized.. while DX12 is not optemized
HBAO+ is better than SSAO but less accurate than RT lighting.. but removing it is just wrong
I hope they return HBAO+ , it's actually best close thing to RT but it's much more optimized
Hi, i'm from the future, (2024) does anyonw know which of the problems shown in this video has been fixed? (If any)
I have a 5600x and a 3070ti running a Samsung G9 at dual 1440, slightly less than 4k. I downloaded it just for giggles but in DX12 with no raytracing I went to an "interior scene" and got ~110 fps. When I enabled raytracing it dropped to 25. With DLSS it drops from ~130 to 45. That's even running at medium settings.
So I'd say no, not really. Oh, there's also not really been any update for about a year.
@@JZStudiosonline ignoring the average framerate, did the stutters related to new areas bother you? Like if someone has 7800x3D & RTX4090, would they notice a problem or it's just a technicallity that only DF guys can see?
@@childofvenus3781 The game was only pulling up some saves from a new game instead of old completed saves so I just walked around white orchard for a couple minutes, saw the raytracing murder the framerate and quit. I don't necessarily recall stutters but the framerate was a bit too low for me to try.
@@JZStudiosonline Ok. Thanks for your help.
@@childofvenus3781 I mean, if you already own the game, it's a 60gb download, which isn't too terrible. You can try it out. I just don't think the performance is good enough for me to want to play through it a third time.
Honestly it's quite puzzling that they seemed to just slap this one out on PC without real testing, considering it was already delayed, very odd.
Anyway, thanks for the video as always Alex, have a nice Christmas holiday!
They most likely wanted to get it out in time for the Holidays, to drive sales. Can’t say I blame them, as it’s a free update, and a good way to tempt newcomers.
Still, hope they patch it up in the coming months.
literally just a collection of community mods with a directx 12 auto wrapper applied, they didn't do shit.
How are you surprised.
No. Seriously.
How?
This is the developer who released CP2077 in an absolutely hilarious state.
Remember, back in 2015, when Witcher 3 was released initially? How it didn't run on AMD hardware for *literal months* ?
Same devs. Same bullshit.
Gamers have fucking *short* and *selective* memories.
@@connarcomstock161 CP2077 was a disaster on last gen consoles, but on PC it wasn’t any buggier than your average Bethesda game. Gamers having short and selective memories goes both ways.
@@matternicuss doesn’t matter. Now this time it’s borked on PC and good on console….and cyberpunk still had crashes, stutters and save losses on PC as well.
my heart dropped the other day when I saw the hotfix patch thinking about Alex having to throw another video out 🤣🤣
"luckily" it's still relevant
Did the hotfix actually do anything?
@@MaaZeus Depends on system. Some people see improvements while for others it may be even worse. My friend on GTX 1050 (laptop) saw significant improvement to low 0.1% and 1% fps drops. I'm still yet to test it
Apparently they forgot to just test the game with Steam's and GOG's overlay? Like how terrible can one company be at testing their games before release? Do they do any testing at all? Can't wait for the mess that Witcher 4 is going to be. I am going to have popcorn ready.
I used to play on PC for absolutely all games, I bought a PS5 recently and it changed my life
The power without having to adjust anything , without crashes etc
I've been a PC gamer all my life but making the switch was smooth
Definitely a bad time for PC when it comes to game optimization. Unreal engine stutter is reeking HAVOC on Pc games and with 90 percent of new games using the engine in 2023, it’s not looking good for PC gaming. Outrageous GPU prices aren’t helping AT ALL!
HDR makes bigger difference than ray tracing but is never mentioned nor analysed because it does not push people to buy 2000 dollars hardware
😂😂
Absolutely not
In fact HDR make games looking worse most of the times
Why are the non-raytraced shadows so much brighter/more transparent than in the original? Looks almost broken.
The tessellation for ground and bricks reminds me of how the game looked in its early E3 Demo's before it got downgraded for consoles. The tessellation on castles/walls/paths was noticeably gimped at release and turned into flat textures.
"It got downgraded for consoles"
Without consoles the game would not be a thing at all. That's where the money comes from for the most part, consoles users.
[have a nice break Alex! Thx for all the videos this year!]
"Funny" thing is that right now, Witcher 3 with RT is tanking performance much more than CPPR's own - Cyberpunk 2077.
I can play CP at locked 60 with RT while W3 goes as low as to freakin 30 FPS with RT on. And bare in mind - CP2077 is one of the best looking games on the market and it's usage of RT is really impressive.
I really hope CDPR will drop some patches after new year's
Yeah, that's what you get by messing with old code and using wrappers. They used D3D11on12 and now are reaping the "rewards"
@@FOREST10PL its free and you're complaining?
@@krai4850 sure but its broken
@@FOREST10PL Shut it Karen!
@@Northwoods55 Broken for broken peasants!
I was hoping for Alex's Optimized Settings here, but perhaps that's not in the cards with the update in it's current state? Would love to see something on this so we can have a starting baseline on midrange and high-end GPU/CPU rigs.
Here's mine currently for a 3060Ti and R5 5600
1080P - DLSS Balanced - DLSS Version changed to 2.5.0 with DLSS Swapper, Balanced actually looks pretty damn good for the low internal res with this version IMO.
RTGI, RTAO, RT Reflections ON
Settings below like Vignette user preference, Light Shafts On.
Hairworks On, Geralt Only, Low, No AA (DLSS Cleans it up alright)
Number Of Background Characters - Low
Shadow Quality - Ultra
Terrain Quality - High
Water Quality - High
Foliage Visibility Range - High
Grass Density - Ultra
Texture Quality - Ultra
Detail Level - Ultra+
Nvidia Reflex + Boost On (Frame times went from 50-70ms to 20-25ms)
48-55 fps in Crookback Bog.
@@licensetoshred Thanks! I have a 3080 on my end and I cannot maintain 60fps consistently even with Ultra Performance DLSS with just the standard RT (GI) enabled and all other aspects off. The game itself (even on Ultra) doesn't really challenge the GPU, but once RT is enabled, even in it's most basic form, it's a massive resource suck.
I think this update needs some more optimization patches.
Nixxes has spoiled me with how well their RT implementation can run for Spidey.
@@sam_i_jam Yeah the problem is the CPU overhead on the DX12 version and the CPU utilization pinning only 2 or 3 cores/threads whilst the others on my 5600 are only around 5-20% max. Hence why everyone is struggling to even hit 60 no matter the settings with RT on. Praying for a patch that makes use of the CPU better, better multi-threading essentially would be great.
Also! Realized that the same settings listed above work just as well and LOOKS better on my 1440p monitor, using 1440p Res upscaling with DLSS on Performance, DLSS Updated to 2.5.0 with DLSS Swapper as well. Looks a lot sharper even though the DLSS preset is lower, I assume because of the higher target resolution. And found out today after playing with settings again, that the texture setting actually improves performance a decent bit dropping to High, which surprised the hell out of me, don't really understand +5fps from dropping texture quality haha.
I play around 45-55 fps with 1440p DLSS performance with settings listed above now, a lil lower, but still very playable with GSync/VRR. And can actually gain back some frames as above by dropping textures to High and I can't notice that much of a difference TBH.
Another odd thing I encountered with an R5 3600 and RTX 2070 Super is changing the texture quality from Ultra to Ultra+ causes a 5-10 fps reduction in both DX11 and DX12 despite using an SSD and VRAM usage being well below 8GB.
The game support HDR now btw, if you want to set it right it's in the .ini file. You can change the brightness, the white point, and the gama
So dumb that they haven't put any HDR options right into the game, even though via the ini it looks pretty good.
@@Games-tt9hu If you have CP2077 you can put the same number in the .ini file for hdr. So you dont have to do it blindly
@@Games-tt9hu It's the opposite of how EA does it. Normally in EA games it's turned on by default and in some games like Squadrons you can't turn it off without going into the INI
Shitty game development now saved by frame generation on thousand+ dollard cards, what a moment to be a gamer.
they're part of the problem or the reason devs have gotten lazy lately
Nearly halfway through the video and the RT visuals look great but it would be nice to see if the raterised effects have been fixed/improved and if the RT effects can be tweaked in resolution.
Still not impressed with Ray Tracing. I get the advantages and I do see differences in some games. But when the frame rate is so abysmal you can’t see the retracing anyway. Idk.
Comparing it to 1.32 (with the HD reworked mod included in the update/4.00) with the same/similar settings and no RT, 4.0's performance is basically halved. GPU usage is down from 100% to around 60%. And, strangely, more system RAM is used than VRAM - the opposite being the case with 1.32.
Even setting 4.00 to lowest possible settings, I get less fps than in 1.32 (170fps vs 190fps -1.32 set at Ultra), and this is all using the DX11 version of 4.00, the fps is much lower with DX12 (with RT off). Plus 1.32 has HBAO+ whilst it has been removed for some reason in 4.00
Very odd.
3080ti 5800x 32gb ram
Unless you're using RT and happy to play at low fps (they need to add a medium setting like in CP2077) there's not much reason at all to update right now on PC. You can DL the integrated mods from Nexus and get a much better experience. Hell, you can use a pretty heavy Reshade and have a much better looking game running at much better fps.
...and now, with that out of my system, I shall watch the vid
That's very odd 😶
Or unless you have a 4090 or 4080. Nevertheless the performance is very poor.
This is the type of review I want to see! HD Reworked vs Witcher Next-Gen!!
You should've watched the video first lol.
Glad to see others noticed this too. I'm sick of seeing "just turn off RT and it performs fine bro" comments.
In some areas I could have 250+ FPS at 1080p ultra with 100% GPU usage on 1.32, but 110 FPS and 60% GPU usage on the same settings (DX11) in 4.00.
Plus the visuals somehow look worse as if some of the ambient occlusion is missing (because of no HBAO+ in 4.00 I'm guessing). It even stutters more too.
That is not acceptable either way, because people with older hardware from say 2015 that could run the old game at 1080p high with 60 fps now will be struggling.
Seems like they didn't really do low level cpu optimizing. but instead maybe did a dx11 to 12 layer hacky deal to enable dx12 features without actually doing a full new multi threaded renderer d12 one from scratch optimized with keeping the work queue fed. I've seen it before with games that get a dx12 post launch where it's just a bit half assed.
Like the MFS2020 DX 12 update?
Callisto protocol, crysis remastered and now W3. Why cant These Developers do like naughty dog did with Uncharted? They come from consol and did a hell of a Job. I am sure they will nail it with TLOS top.
TLOU, yh.
Is the HDR on PC any better? It’s pretty abysmal on PS5 and lack of options is just so baffling. Still no option to remap controls is also annoying.
I find HDR working well on pc, but there are no options to tweak it
Great coverage, happy holidays!
I hope CDPR can fix this enormous CPU limitation…
Thats magic, I'm amazed how far an older game can be pushed.
I'm running the game on a 5800X3D and RTX 4080, I've maxed everything out and have DLSS at quality, and get 80-120 FPS at 1440p, with GPU usage at 99%. I haven't noticed any CPU limiting performance at all, but I do need to keep frame generation off due to occasional stutter occurring, possibly down to that shader stutter issue.
Same here. I'm running the game at 1440p on a 5600x and a 4080 with everything cranked to 11 and I'm seeing the same frame rates you are. Been keeping an eye on CPU utilization and with DLSS on it's running at 50-85% and rarely spiking in to the 90's. GPU utilization bangs away at a consistent 95-99%. Been thinking about an upgrade to a 5800x3d but right now I don't really see a need to.
The first patch released yesterday did improve performance slightly.
And where are the optimized settings? : )
It appears that there isn't really any way to optimise when the dx12 version runs so terribly! I couldn't get a steady frame rate even with RT off on a 9900k and a 3080ti at 1440p or 4k. I will be waiting a few months before diving back into tw3, hopefully will be sorted by then
As big Boss says, there is not a really good way to give universal optimised settings as the CPU issues get in the way of having your GPU performance matter much if at all. This is a bad situation
@@DigitalFoundry Maybe Alex can pin the optimized settings in description or comments if and when the game issues are resolved. Thanks for all the work!
Shame honestly. Hope they fix it. Guess ill be playing on the PS5 instead
@@BigBoss-kk4sr I have the same CPU at 4.8ghz, I find that, if in the task manager I disable 2 threads, the game will run a bit more stable. When I was watching RIVA the load was shifting between cores, I notice Windows dont like that. Now windows as allways 1 core and 2 threads to work with. This was before the hotfix btw. With my rtx 3070 and my UW 1440p I locked the FPS to 35 in the .ini file and 36 with RIVA. It's more or less a good experience now. Oh and the game as a big Vram (I dont know for RAM i have 64Go) problem so I can play more or less one hour without problem then the memory will saturate and I just save, quit and restart.
Hopefully these issues will get ironed out. I was waiting for this update for my xth run of the game, but I guess I have to hold off for now
"DX12 version is very heavy on CPU."
WTF? DX12 was created as a low-level API to use less CPU than DX11.
OK I'd love to see a bit more about the consoles - I was noticing a whole lot of stutter and jitter on the PS5 in fidelity mode; but when searching about the new version's performance I just saw threads about the PC edition.
Man patch do be having issues... BUT it just looks so freaking good that I'm actually swallowing these issues... And moving on with playing.
What I did though was drop my tv to 50hz and playing at 50 fps locked with ultra+ RT at 1440p DLSS auto. Getting more or less 50 fps locked with my RTX 3090 + i5 11400 CPU.
PS: The ONLY actual way of getting locked and stable vsync is to use in game vsync + in game refresh rate matching fps limiter number. So if you have 60hz screen... Set it to 60 fps. If you have 120 fps... Set it to 120. Now you can actually in config file change these values... And edit one of them to your needs just like mine. I changed the 30 fps one to 50 fps value and now when it's at or above 50 fps... It is perfectly in sync with my monitors refresh rate and no weird stutters while frametime is flat lined.
I tried multiple vsyncs from nvinspector to nvidia control panel, with rivatuner limiter with both in game vsync and fps limiter disabled it would just stutter weirdly.
I’m half-way through it on Xbox Series X. RT mode is not smooth, but the graphics look far more realistic. I really like it, but it’s not smooth enough to play and enjoy. Performance mode is playable, but it doesn’t seem to be locked at 60. Incredible game though! I’m playing it for the first time 🥳
Ram Ram fellow haryanavi lad, I keep bumping into your comments on old games and weird panasonic camera videos.
I'm also playing it for the first time , its great for me but crashes too often thus I ended up here, In case you ever read this - please play this game called "OUTER WILDS" whenever you find the time in life.
Performance being questionable again is such a classic CDPR moment
when you realize that all they did was implement popular community made mods along with a DX12 plugin wrapper you'll understand why the performance is hot garbage
CDPR are inexperienced amateurs. Thats why their games are so trash
@@Industrious420 The mods had nothing to do with it I reckon. Just the piss poor DX12 implementation.
@@awsomeboy360 100%. I'm just saying that's all they did...was implemented community mods. They even got approvals and everything lol. You can find out a lot from the game files
@@awsomeboy360 the method they used to implement DX12 is a large part of the issues. Pretty much used a tool that MS provides for free to convert DX11 content to DX12. Pathetic.
The thing with RT is that it adds some visual improvements that sometimes you'll barely notice during normal gameplay compared to rasterization visuals, but it costs too much for your hardware.
Not to mention that this tech is 3 generations in, but still sucks on performance
I can't really understand why people say this, it's practically the opposite for me, if I try looking closely I'm less likely to notice a difference but *overall* it just feels less videogamey because you don't have all these shadows that just totally eat sunlight everywhere.
You aren't a picky gamer, I guess
They also lowered caffeine levels of the trees.
I'll check GOG later to see if they offer an upgrade deal, this is the perfect time to play the DLC.
As long as they don't remove the old version of the game, they're welcome to fuck up the new one however they like.
I swear it's like with every game release that has DX12 it just runs worse.. why is this not being brought up as an issue?
DX12 has an obvious issue with performance compared to DX11
Nice work here Alex. Appreciate your deep dives and technical analysis.
The UA-camrs being CDPR brown-noses all saying "the game runs fine!!" were really starting to frustrate me, so its good to see one of the authorities on this matter finally speak up.
Just when i thought CDPR were improving after the Cyberpunk 2077 sh*t show, they drop this garbage on us.
The days of complete, QA'd and optimised releases are over guys.
The days of "push it out, patch it later because fans will lap it up as us "listening to them!" rather than the fact we should have given them a complete game to begin with" are upon us
I think this is not really on CDPR tbh, just situation that was out of their control and they tried the best they could.
Not bootlicking obviously. I am just as frustrated with this port
Look at the organization they joined. Wont be surprised if the wither remake and sequel are wokiefied.
@@Bradley10960 How so? as far as i am aware CDPR themselves worked on this update?
I am grateful that its free and what is included in the update is terrific, dont get me wrong, but the state this has launched in continues a terrible trend that is industry wide.
@@mfenix88 saber interactive also worked on this for like a year
I just set Ultra+ at every settings and RT-off and called it a day. TW3 is not a native DX12 game which explains the 50% performance hit on RT (on my rig). The base graphical improvement is good in itself and the performance loss for a fancier lighting and reflection although indeed beautiful is just not worth it.
The RT looks awesome but it's hard for me to not view a lot of these issues as major steps backwards. Like, I played the original version on an Ivy Bridge i5 and a GTX 970 and got a near-locked 1080p/60 with most settings at high or ultra, and at no point did I think "oh this game doesn't look good."
It feels like we're definitely hitting the point of diminishing returns. I can see the advantage of RT in the side by sides but I also know that the original version wouldn't bother me at all.
OK, so even a top end rig including the crazy fast 4090 can't play this at stable 60fps with RT visuals on. Ray-tracing tech is clearly still some years from being useful to the typical gamer.
U jus poor
@@matttress7218 Poor people can be correct too ;-)
@@PeterKoperdan u jus poor
@@matttress7218 Poor people can be correct too ;-)
@@PeterKoperdan u jus poor
I’m extremely curious to see how this co pares to the higher end current gen console performance.
"poor performance"... you're too generous..
Alex is talking about the Witcher 3. which means, Geralt of Bathtubia
whats driving me crazy is the stutters once you come out of any menu
Or when you fast travel you get like 5 FPS for a moment.
What is your outlook for this? Do you think any of these problems are fixable with a patch, especially the CPU threading? Honestly I'm so bummed out by all of this. Feel so deflated about playing the game again :(
I kinda doubt it. I mean, this update probably took time to do, it dropped out of nowhere, they didn't announce it too soon and then rush it. If they could have fixed all of this before, they would have done so.
Otherwise it just shows their sheer incompetence and total lack of self respect as a company. After the Cyberpunk distater they really didn't need any bad press, and yet here we are.
No way game engine is trash