I would say that your refingering and mastering of of the voicing of notes more across strings really makes you more of a physical genius of the instrument and the other is just physically faster. If you think about it your fingering is also much closer to that of the guitar. We guitarists by virtue, I guess of the polyphonic nature of our instrument and genres have to learn and consider all of our alternative fingerings. Keeping any player worth their intermediary salt to learn possibilities in all positions not just the "Tetris" playing where we keep most in a low position and just use the high first string to play the higher intonation parts. I never realized other string instruments might learn in that way.
Thank you! And yes, I strongly agree with this, it is much closer to the guitar. I don't play guitar, but most of what I watch on UA-cam is Pat Metheny and Kurt Rosenwinkel videos ... so yeah guitar players forever!!
You're basically playing it like an electric player would - no offense ; ) That's essentially how we electric guys play it as well (give or take - I got to the C on the A string in the second phrase for example, and play the arpeggios across 3 strings rather than four, which requires a skip down, but's because I'm not insane enough to try it over 300bpm ; ) That said I've never got why guys play the first phrase starting with the pointer or middle finger and then shift. I play 3 4 3 1 1 (skip) 4, etc. But whatever works!
Entinen basisti - lopetin kauan sitten siirtyen tallennuspuolelle. Roudasin muinoin Jacoa ( ilman ja Weather Reportin kanssa ) ja NHOP ( Pederseniä ) 1970-luvulla Helsingin Kulttuuritalolla. Aivan hienoa ja vielä melodistakin. Yksitoista pistettä ja 12 ½ papukaijamerkkiä. ( finnish language )
You sound great! I play it arco using Rabbath based fingerings. Pretty similar to what you are doing. I also revisited Simandl after studies with Rabbath. Old Simandl is bass by brute force in comparison. Playing the Prelude to the First 'cello Suite using that method was very difficult. Using the new method, many highschool kids play it well now. These economical fingerings are particularly useful for fast passages. The beauty of systems like this is that they provide many options. You can pick whichever fingering suits the music. Sometimes I will pick a less economical fingering and shift to get a longer section of string vibrating for the timbre it produces. Fantastic demonstration. Very solid concept. Cheers!
Thank you Sean! Rabbath based fingerings are always the way to go. I like your term "bass by brute force," I'll have to adopt that and credit you! I couldn't agree more.
Hahahah! I’ve been struggling with this piece for YEARS only to be able To play it sort of accurately at 180-ish bpm. And all the way I felt I was doing something really stupid because it was, well, impossible to achieve. And now you literally spelled it out: I was s t u p i d. Gonna give it a try for sure and see how much frustration I can get out of the new fingering. Grazie!
This touches on exactly what I've noticed in my own upright playing; that register is seriously neglected, especially on the A and E strings, for no good reason. Been thinking about this explicitly as I've been practicing this tune recently. Combined with lowering my high action via bridge adjustment, I think working through this register more explicitly will really help with speed. Really interesting ideas with fingerings too, I don't think I would have thought to use 3rd and 4th finger there in the second 8 bars. Thanks for this! Killing! Subscribed!
But what if your right hand technique isn't capable of playing that quickly? It would be helpful to address approaches for right-hand dexterity as well.
I have watched that video. I’m aware of the fingerings that NHOP is using. Since I can’t play with standard fingerings as fast as NHOP, I use these fingerings instead.
That is pretty much exactly how it is played on electric. Bassists that play both upright and electric are probably more inclined to play upright across all the strings rather than “Tetris” shape. However, what isn’t mentioned often is that on both upright and electric, the tone of the same notes played on the G and D as the A and E strings are very different, especially in the middle of the neck - the G and D strings being more crisp and bright while the A and E strings are more round and dark. Therefore, playing notes on certain strings may sometimes be more of a tonal choice rather than a physical one.
Exactly! I'm pretty new to electric, but I can totally see the parallels there between fingerings. I also agree about the difference in tone ... but as always the challenge (at least for me) is to make it so the 4 strings sound as similar as possible
I find that electric has a much more obvious difference in tone between the E/A and D/G strings compared to double bass. A lot of electric players that play a lot of rock/pop will play a majority of what they play in the middle of the neck on the E and A strings because of the tone, and also play vertically up the E and A strings more often for the same reason. I typically don't notice as much of a difference in tone between the strings on upright as I do with electric, particularly when playing Pizz. There is definitely a bigger difference in tone when playing Arco though, and I think that has a lot to do with the reason for the "Tetris" approach when it comes to certain methods. Although, if I had to pick the worst tone when playing Arco on the double bass it would have to be in the thumb position range on the E and A strings. @@coledavismusic
I’ve recently started learning double bass.. this fingering reminds me of the electric. Is the fingering still 1,2,4? If not, is it only in the higher register (you couldn’t use the third finger in half or 1st position, right?) Amazing, groundbreaking content here, Cole!
Thank you Rob! You're right, this is definitely a more electric bass fingering. I have pretty big hands so when I get up in the higher register I do use the 3rd finger. However, you can use the 2nd finger up there also - and you're right, you can't use 3rd finger in half or first position!
wow, I love this! I did not start studying upright and jazz seriously until 18 months ago, after 2 other failed attempts w/ old crappy kay basses I needed a capo to play ;-) . So, I bought a nice Shen carved bass sb-300. And then my arthritis started acting up, and I had to change up my left hand. SO, I took my cues from 52 years on the electric bass and began playing across the fingerboard , even on the E and A up around the heel, and it was clear to me that was the way forward. Why so many upright players leave 1/2 their fingerboard untouched always amazes me.
Wow! Needing a capo to play upright bass sounds not good ... glad you have a nice Shen now! It's great to hear that you also play across the fingerboard, love it!
@@coledavismusic the capo comment was a joke, to illustrate the ridiculous high action. My shen is set-up like Christian MCBride and Ray Brown, spirocore weich and low action, E string 7-8mm above fingerboard at end of FGB. And it's plenty LOUD.
I feel you got something really good going on with the new fingerings. Love how DB pizz technique is still constantly evolving.
Oh man, thank you. That means a lot. I love that too!
This is terrifically innovative, but Donna at 315 is not really musical - more like minstrelsy.
Thank you, I appreciate that! And are you implying that I’m doing this for show (which I am) … or that this is racist?! 😯
After your explanation, I now realize how extraordinary NHOP truly was.
I appreciate your work.
You ARE a physical genius :)
Ha thank you
I would say that your refingering and mastering of of the voicing of notes more across strings really makes you more of a physical genius of the instrument and the other is just physically faster. If you think about it your fingering is also much closer to that of the guitar. We guitarists by virtue, I guess of the polyphonic nature of our instrument and genres have to learn and consider all of our alternative fingerings. Keeping any player worth their intermediary salt to learn possibilities in all positions not just the "Tetris" playing where we keep most in a low position and just use the high first string to play the higher intonation parts. I never realized other string instruments might learn in that way.
Couldn’t agree more. Have a song you can’t play? A stretch too big? Worry not just play the same note somewhere else.
Thank you! And yes, I strongly agree with this, it is much closer to the guitar. I don't play guitar, but most of what I watch on UA-cam is Pat Metheny and Kurt Rosenwinkel videos ... so yeah guitar players forever!!
You're basically playing it like an electric player would - no offense ; ) That's essentially how we electric guys play it as well (give or take - I got to the C on the A string in the second phrase for example, and play the arpeggios across 3 strings rather than four, which requires a skip down, but's because I'm not insane enough to try it over 300bpm ; ) That said I've never got why guys play the first phrase starting with the pointer or middle finger and then shift. I play 3 4 3 1 1 (skip) 4, etc. But whatever works!
Hey @coledavismusic I LOVE all this but fyi in the pdf the line is wrong on measure 11 as compared to what Bird plays.
Great video. I'm a guitarist and these fingerings resemble guitar fingerings for this tune. Makes perfect sense.
Oh wow! That's cool, I didn't know that. Thanks for watching!
I had the same feeling, as a current bassist and long lapsed guitarist.
Does having lighter strings help play faster? I'm wondering what yours are? surely not a gut G string？
At least pronounce his name correctly....it isnt Niles its Neils ...(Neels)😂
Great video!!
Thank you Ben, much appreciated!
Entinen basisti - lopetin kauan sitten siirtyen tallennuspuolelle. Roudasin muinoin Jacoa ( ilman ja Weather Reportin kanssa ) ja NHOP ( Pederseniä ) 1970-luvulla Helsingin Kulttuuritalolla. Aivan hienoa ja vielä melodistakin. Yksitoista pistettä ja 12 ½ papukaijamerkkiä. ( finnish language )
Jaco before Jaco
He really was !
so play it like an electric
Exactly ;)
Yeah, but can you play Smoke On The Water?
Waiting for New Rabbath.
You sound great!
I play it arco using Rabbath based fingerings.
Pretty similar to what you are doing.
I also revisited Simandl after studies with Rabbath.
Old Simandl is bass by brute force in comparison.
Playing the Prelude to the First 'cello Suite using that method was very difficult.
Using the new method, many highschool kids play it well now.
These economical fingerings are particularly useful for fast passages.
The beauty of systems like this is that they provide many options. You can pick whichever fingering suits the music. Sometimes I will pick a less economical fingering and shift to get a longer section of string vibrating for the timbre it produces.
Fantastic demonstration.
Very solid concept.
Cheers!
Thank you Sean! Rabbath based fingerings are always the way to go. I like your term "bass by brute force," I'll have to adopt that and credit you! I couldn't agree more.
It’s not Niles, but Niels (“neels”)
My apologies was looking at wrong hand
bro...
Hahahah! I’ve been struggling with this piece for YEARS only to be able
To play it sort of accurately at 180-ish bpm.
And all the way I felt I was doing something really stupid because it was, well, impossible to achieve.
And now you literally spelled it out: I was s t u p i d.
Gonna give it a try for sure and see how much frustration I can get out of the new fingering.
Grazie!
Thanks! If you can play Donna Lee at 180bpm, you are far from stupid! Hope the new fingering is useful :)
That fingering works for a jazz bass playing but with the classical double bass comes the bow, and crossing over strings slowes you down.
That’s a good point! Not the best for classical playing with the bow. I should put a disclaimer :)
Bass God
aw thanks :)
That's ridiculous. Is your bass super well setup? I wonder if your luthier is coming on holiday to the south of England anytime soon 😁
Thank you! And that's hilarious, I'll let you know if he does 🤣. The bass is super well set up!
I started learning bass in January and this is just how I have always played everything, I didn't realize I was supposed to play it any other way lol
Video sound is now much better, great job.
Thank you! I certainly took your advice :)
Great video!Less shifting and more playing in the same positon I guess?
N-E-E-L-S, not NILES!
Hahaha sorry 🤣
Actually it's NIELS not NEELS 😁😁
MORON, I WROTE IT LIKE THAT SO THE KID WOULD SAY HIS NAME RIGHT!! GOT IT NOW??????? It's called PHONETICALLY.....@@scotch340
This touches on exactly what I've noticed in my own upright playing; that register is seriously neglected, especially on the A and E strings, for no good reason. Been thinking about this explicitly as I've been practicing this tune recently. Combined with lowering my high action via bridge adjustment, I think working through this register more explicitly will really help with speed. Really interesting ideas with fingerings too, I don't think I would have thought to use 3rd and 4th finger there in the second 8 bars.
Thanks for this! Killing! Subscribed!
Absolutely - it's neglected for all of us, but I've never been sure why! I hope the fingering helps and thank you for subscribing!
But what if your right hand technique isn't capable of playing that quickly? It would be helpful to address approaches for right-hand dexterity as well.
Will do! This is a great idea, thanks for bringing it to my attention
If you watch that video nhop is using the standard fingerings plus 3 fingers on right hand
I have watched that video. I’m aware of the fingerings that NHOP is using. Since I can’t play with standard fingerings as fast as NHOP, I use these fingerings instead.
That is pretty much exactly how it is played on electric. Bassists that play both upright and electric are probably more inclined to play upright across all the strings rather than “Tetris” shape. However, what isn’t mentioned often is that on both upright and electric, the tone of the same notes played on the G and D as the A and E strings are very different, especially in the middle of the neck - the G and D strings being more crisp and bright while the A and E strings are more round and dark. Therefore, playing notes on certain strings may sometimes be more of a tonal choice rather than a physical one.
Exactly! I'm pretty new to electric, but I can totally see the parallels there between fingerings. I also agree about the difference in tone ... but as always the challenge (at least for me) is to make it so the 4 strings sound as similar as possible
I find that electric has a much more obvious difference in tone between the E/A and D/G strings compared to double bass. A lot of electric players that play a lot of rock/pop will play a majority of what they play in the middle of the neck on the E and A strings because of the tone, and also play vertically up the E and A strings more often for the same reason. I typically don't notice as much of a difference in tone between the strings on upright as I do with electric, particularly when playing Pizz. There is definitely a bigger difference in tone when playing Arco though, and I think that has a lot to do with the reason for the "Tetris" approach when it comes to certain methods. Although, if I had to pick the worst tone when playing Arco on the double bass it would have to be in the thumb position range on the E and A strings. @@coledavismusic
Hey, man! Great job! Quick question; WTF????
Hahaha - thank you!!
Love your approach but I also wonder about yer bass action.
Thank you! It's medium low - low enough to play this, but not too low as to squander the sound :)
I have subscribed to your patreon now! I don't do that normally but your content is worth every penny!
Hey Andreas, thank you so much! I appreciate it a lot :)
shocked😮
I’ve recently started learning double bass.. this fingering reminds me of the electric. Is the fingering still 1,2,4? If not, is it only in the higher register (you couldn’t use the third finger in half or 1st position, right?) Amazing, groundbreaking content here, Cole!
Thank you Rob! You're right, this is definitely a more electric bass fingering. I have pretty big hands so when I get up in the higher register I do use the 3rd finger. However, you can use the 2nd finger up there also - and you're right, you can't use 3rd finger in half or first position!
wow, I love this! I did not start studying upright and jazz seriously until 18 months ago, after 2 other failed attempts w/ old crappy kay basses I needed a capo to play ;-) . So, I bought a nice Shen carved bass sb-300. And then my arthritis started acting up, and I had to change up my left hand. SO, I took my cues from 52 years on the electric bass and began playing across the fingerboard , even on the E and A up around the heel, and it was clear to me that was the way forward. Why so many upright players leave 1/2 their fingerboard untouched always amazes me.
Wow! Needing a capo to play upright bass sounds not good ... glad you have a nice Shen now! It's great to hear that you also play across the fingerboard, love it!
@@coledavismusic the capo comment was a joke, to illustrate the ridiculous high action. My shen is set-up like Christian MCBride and Ray Brown, spirocore weich and low action, E string 7-8mm above fingerboard at end of FGB. And it's plenty LOUD.
Wooo you're crazy!!! 😮😮❤
Ha thank you!
killer!!
Thank you! 😀
It’s not called a Tetris shape it’s a teramino
Oh wow. Thanks for clarifiying :)
@@coledavismusic lol that’s a Tetris joke
@@rile7648 Oh lol. I live under a rock, thanks for telling me that ha
VC genial, toca muito
Thank you!
the Colehop
Hehe
Thank you!
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Digging these videos!
Thank you!
wowwwwwww
Haha thanks 😛
um. Wow.
Ha thank you ☺️
@@coledavismusic how applicable to electric do you think this general idea is?
@@Intenzity Very applicable!
Well can’t see your fingering at all with the music notes in the way