NI's New S Series Mk iii Keyboards - What The Reviews Don't Tell You - Why I Am Not Upgrading 😲
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2023
- Native Instruments' (@NativeInstruments) new S Series keyboards Mk iii - I discuss aspects I haven't yet seen mentioned in any review, I explain why you might want to buy one, I suggest some alternatives and I expllain why I am not upgrading from my Mk ii keyboard.
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Equipment used:
Komplete Kontrol
S49 Keyboard
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Crazy prices for a midi controller with such small improvements compared to MK2's...
Yeah... A lot of companies seem to be making a bit of a cash grab lately... 😠
Just grabbed a second hand 61 key MK2 about month ago for a good price and happy with that 👍
The price is almost the same as the MK2. Poly aftertouch is worth the difference in price on its own.
I felt the same way. Was expecting a bit more. I have always felt like NI has great user interface design. Don't get me wrong I love the poly aftertouch, bigger screen and the possibility of opening NKS to third parties so you don't have to load Komplete Kontrol vst. Few issues for me right now; They removed the maschine specific buttons and added LEDs around the browser encoder. Missed opportunity that they didn't showcase those with NI's own libraries/soft synth/maschine. As it stands it feels like they've taken something useful and added lights to trick you. Hopefully the fully baked firmware update will address these issues?
Crazy prizes?? Really - I see it completely different? You get A LOT for your cash. Poly Afertouch keyboards and big displays and high resolution encoders do cost money. Personally I would like to pay some more but get many more buttons and faders and drumpads.
Thanks for this review most. Definitely. I will check through some additional
Yes, it does what it does well, but it's not for everyone.
You are right, the lack of faders is a mailing point. And of course price should be mentioned always
Thank you. Yes, price is incredibly important to most of us.
A midi controller is just what it is, a MIDI CONTROLLER
I'll stick with my mk1. What counts is what is coming out of the monitors.
Hi Tony - Absoluterly right! I initially had a Mk i and only upgraded because the Mk ii had speech which was useful for my deteriorating eyesight 👍
In other words, you can’t afford to upgrade hehe kidding. Your keys should be worn out by now tho.
@@jamesdean3548 😄 That's a point. How long do these things last? 😊
Thanks for the honest review Ian. Funny enough I was over the fence when upgrading my NI keyboard a couple years back precisely because of the lack of pads and faders. In the end I went for the KL (Arturia). I use the faders and drum pads all the time and because my DAW is Bitwig, I don’t miss the NKS integration. Never looked back 🙂
Thank you Sandro. Yes, so many people really do use faders...@NativeInstruments
Great video, thanks for breaking it down. You get I understand it so you can make a better decision.
Thanks alfonso. Hope it helped 👍
Very strongly considering upgrading from mki 61 to mkiii. Never fully got used to touch strip pitch bend and polyphonic aftertouch is something I've been pining after as more software synths integrate it. Lack of faders or drum pads isn't a deterrent to -me- because those are available on another dedicated unit. 🤔
Hey George - It still looks like a great keyboard as long as you're happy with the stuff it doesn't have 😊 These things are personal so if you like it - go for it 👍
Thanks for the honest review! I'm still not fully into the Komplete Kontrol ecosystem via Keyboard, though I do have Komplete 13. I definitely don't like this monopolistic approach of simplifying controllers to just one specific thing. I like the NI but won't be buying the MK3 series. I would invest in a controller with more features and I don't know what NI are afraid of. The location of the MK2 Strip is unacceptable, which to me is a sign of very poor design. They have cut the functions from the old model in MK3 and are trying to fool us with several novelties and there is not even a touch screen function (the cameras didn't have them either, but now they all do). I expected more and definitely a little more compact and slim profile design :)
Thank you. Yes, it is a bit all round disappointing. You actually don't need an NI keyboard to benefit from Komplete Kontrol but it's a massive shame NI didn't take the bull by the horns and produce an absolutely killer controller which they absolutely could have done. But now, alas, they are a corporate machine - or Maschine 😊
Well well, Ian Waugh !
Now there's a name from early in my electronic music journey.
Good to see you still tinkling the polymers.
I still have a Falcon and a CX5M in boxes around here somewhere ... 🙄
Fame at last 😊
If you're not using the gear, you know what to do 😊
CX5 - blimey! 😲
Some great points No Maschine integration is not an option for me hopefully will be addressed before release in software update without I will not be getting rid of my beloved Mk 2
Hi Jason - Thank you. There are buttons on the Mk ii for Maschine which have been removed on the Mk ii so not sure how they'd bring back that integration. My view is that they want to keep the two separate...
@@artisans8521 😢
@@IanWaugh i hope not Ian.I use Maschine inside my DAW .I can launch clips via the s49 flip over to external hardware track midi mode then to a KK VST track use both mixers (mash and Daw)all with a few button presses.Its a great way to play live or Jam.Please Please I hope you are wrong.If you are right its a step backwards Fingers crossed
@@artisans8521 i hope not mate
@@jasonsykes7725 Well, it's just speculation based on what's going on now. If your current setup works then it will continue to work going forward . You just have to be wary of upgrades...
Thank you for an honest review! 😊
You are most welcome, Tom. Hope you found it helpful.
This was a great review Ian! I haven’t spent much time learning about native instruments and I appreciate the new knowledge!
Thanks Matt. Check your plugins to see if any are NKS. If so, definitely worth looking at the free Komplete Kontrol I rreckon. You don't have to use it with a NI keyboard to benefit.
@@IanWaugh Awesome - thanks for the tip!
@@mwmusic29 👍😊
I have a Komplete Kontrol S61 MkII and this video took me off some of my GAS about MkIII and perhaps saved some money in the future. Thanks Ian !!!. BTW, my MkII was bought used but like new (even boxed), so I saved 50% of its price and I am glad I did that way. I got on same deal a Maschine MkIII and the two are a very good combination
I do my best, Jose 😊 You have a good setup and saving money is always a good thing 😄
I think I am going to stick with my Arturia Keylab 88. Great review sir!
Thank you kindly 😊 I thhink that's a great choice and good decision 👍
How is the keyboard feel? I ordered a Mk2 a year ago, and it felt very springy and unnatural. Does the Mk3 feel different?
Have you tried the Korg Keystage? If so, how does the keybed feel compared to this Mk3 NI? Apparently Korg licensed the ASM Hydrasynth PAT keybed, and there is a warning not to press to hard into the keybed to avoid damaging it. NI says they use a Fatar keybed, but Fatar has none on their website. Curious.
Thanks very much!
Not tried the Korg. Weird telling you not to press too hard - that how you do aftertouch 🤔😕
If NI says it' Fatar I'd be inclined to believe them. The keys feel pretty much the same to me on the synth bed ones. They seem OK to me, a good synth action but everyone has their own preferences. I've certainly played worse 😊
@@IanWaugh Thanks for your speedy response. I'll give one a try - this time at a store so I don't have to hassle with returning it if it doesn't suit me. The reason I bought the S49 Mk2 without playing it first is that my son has a S61 Mk2 that I played for hours and liked it just fine!
@@jsfbay1 Always best to try if you can 👍
Brilliant review. Thank you for convincing me to skip the MKIII. I think Arturia has all the features you mentioned.
Thank you Greg, glad you found it useful. Like the Arturias
I was so curious b4 the reviews....i appreciate your honesty honestly!!!! Im bought mk2 90 days ago thankfully it looks like i didnt lose out at all.
Thank you. No, I don't think so. If you read the Comments here, most folks are sticking with the Mk ii - it's still a great keyboard, controller and still has Komplete integration 👍
@@IanWaugh indeed I'm very integrated in there ecosystem and I plan to grab a Machine so that automatically takes me out the game.
@@wurlbfree1981 Good stuff! I'm also well into it. You need to get the gear to do the job 👍
@@IanWaugh exactly!
@@wurlbfree1981 It's not alwasy easy and often involves costly mistakes. I should have taken up train spotting... 😊
Hi Ian, thank you for this revieuw!
My setup now is a Maschine mk3 and a M32. I really would like to expand my keyboard as i'm attending lessons and heard 2 months ago that the new S mk3 would arrive. Yes its here.. oh it lacks the intergation with Maschine... nooooo, was my reaction, why?!? I do have Komplete kontrol 14 standard and a few extra packs, I also use the Maschine 2 software to build my music and would love to jam / perform live with it....
This to get to my question :), what keyboard and soft/hardware setup would you (or any other reader) advice with in considderation i'd like to use what I have ofcourse?
Hi - That's a big question 😊
If you want closer integration with Komplete then one of the S series. If you want some Maschine control from the keyboard you'll need a Mk ii as this has been removed from the Mk iii. Otherwise any MIDI controller will do the job. You won't have the Komplete parameters mapping to the keyboard but you can otherwise control Komplete from the computer and get all its other functionality. The Arturias are good (not the Essential unless you try before you buy) although we're waiting for the Mk iii version of the pro version The SMK also has a good rep. Depends on what you want and how much you want to spend 😄 Hope this helps.
Yes, @@IanWaugh its a big question, thank you for doing your best to give a (k)complete reply! hehe 🙂
I think I'll sit on my money a bit longer and maybe divert to another brand... (can spend my money one time only) but for all who read; all hardware I bought from NI is high quality and durable! And their sound library incredible good.
@@djobed.utrecht Thanks DJ - Yes, a little research can go a long way. Absolutely, NI hardware is excellent and regulars will know I'm a fan of Komplete 👍
Sliders, ribbon control, polyphonic aftertouch, very good points and you're right about Arturia keybed (sadly because they makes such good stuff; I bought one and brought it back), Thank you, good review. Though many great improvments.... Love Native Instruments
Thank you 👍 Yes, so many good things but so much missing...
You are completely right. Congrats for the very good video
Thank you Ricardo , very kind and much appreciated.
Forgive me for demonstrating my sheer lack of information. Do these Native Instruments models have the same capability as your computer of storing the software itself on board, or are they strictly for controlling software on your computer?
Hey - Great question. The Maschine + is a self-comtained piece of kit (although some have reported that the on-board computer is not powerful enough). The keyboards, however, are simply controllers. The Mk iii apparently has more powerful internal hardware and can speed up its integration with Kontakt, for example, according to one Commenter on here.
Amazing review, instant subscription.
Thank you, Adam, very much appreciated 👍
Very good video and comments. The only thing I might add is that for a professional composer, songwriter, or producer, the barrier to entry to own a dedicated NI S Series Keyboard for the Native Instruments ecosystem AND an Arteria Keylab 49 or 61 Keyboard is very low when you consider the tens of thousands of dollars most people have invested in recording equipment, microphones, digital audio interfaces, other software and hardware samplers, synthesizers and drum machines, etc. I own an NI S MkII 61 and an Arteria Keylab 49 and I use both when they are needed. They are among the least expensive equipment in my recording studio.
Hi - Thank you -yes you are absolutely right, but the operative word is 'professional'. Many users only use a computer and software and the price of the Mk 3 makes it difficult to justify buying into NI's eco system.
I have a S49. I also had a MiniLab for controlling Arturia's plugins but when they all became NKS-compatible I found I didn't really use it. For what situations do you use your two keyboards?
I have a Fantom 8 & a Nektar MIDI controller keyboard. Both have pads & faders. I never use the pads or faders on either one, except to occasionally adjust drawbars on an organ patch. So I don't miss pads or faders on this controller. I think the purpose of this controller is deep integration with NI & other software which is compatible.
Yes Ben, I think you're right exactly. However, many people would like pads and faders which tend to be almost de facto standard on controllers these days.
@@IanWaugh I agree. They do seem to be standards, but I'm just wondering, I guess, how many people actually use them. I may be the odd man out. I probably am. 😁
@@bnjmnwst Well, not everyone uses every function but I'd have thought the object is to cater to a broad spectrum of users.
Hi Ian. Nice videos! Do you know if the NI S61 MKII can be used without being connected to a PC? I have some trouble getting the sustain pedal working through MIDI to a Korg Nautilus. It works when the S61 at the same time is connected to the PC, but when I disconnect it, then the sustain pedal stops working....
Hi Thomas - Thank you. In short, I don't know but I would expect it to work as long as it has power. I'm thinking that it may not have enough power when disconnected to power the pedal. although that seems a slightly extreme possibility but otherwise flummoxed, sorry.
@@IanWaugh Hi Ian. That's fine. Thanks very much for your reply! :-) And keep up the good work. I hope you're getting the MKIII for review. :-)
@@thomasolesen3209 Thanks Thomas. It's a bit weird because I don't want to be one of those reviewers who gets stuff for free and feels compelled to say nice things about it😱
I'm sure the keyboard itself is excellent. I was, in this video, commenting on the things it lacked (which other reviews didn't mention). Can't see how that will change but NI has clarified some policies. Hey ho, we'll see how it goes... 😊
Not having faders is really confusing.. i mean i get they want to sell Maschine hence they don't put drum pads.. but why do they not put faders.. i am super happy with the Arturia Keylab 61 i got.. it has almost everything i could have wanted and more.. really this new polyphonic aftertouch is probably the only feature it doesn't have.. (i rarely even use the normal AT in it).. I've only had it for about a year.. hope I won't need to upgrade at least another 5 or more years..
Hi - Yes, some strange design decisions which will definitely push many potential buyers too other keyboards. The Arturias are very nice 👍
@@rwlurk On Ableton there is a feature wherein, the fader (or any knob) doesn't work until the physical fader doesn't reach the point where the daw's fader is.. for example if my physical fader is at 10% but my DAW's fader is at 90%, then using the physical fader won't work until i drag the physical fader also upto 90%.. that way there is no sudden jump in volume.. see if your daw has something similar.. hope you will be able to find it and then be able to use your faders once again.. also faders are really fun on hammond organs which is probably my favourite keyboard instrument of all time.. there the faders act as drawbars.. and they work inverted (you pull down to increase).. its so fun..
@@rwlurk Yes, that can be absolutely true. I love motorised faders 😊
If you use the faders as soon as you start a project and throughout they will always set the level. You can also just use them for the final mixing, setting them to the approx levels of the on-screen faders. Not tried this as I don't have any faders 😢 so I may be talking through my hat, but that's how I'd approach it.
But faders are very useful for other purposes, too.
I really like the video.I have a Medeli akx 10. can you give a review on it please?
Hi Randi - Thank you. I don't have your keyboard but you probably know a lot about it already 👍
Thanks for making this. Better than the same old opinions
Hi Tommy - You're welcome 😊 Sincw 99% of the Comments agree, I find it a little strange that more channels don't talk about these things...
I’m glad I held on to my Novation SL MK2 with its faders, buttons, pots, encoders, drum pads and its ability to control software, hardware and and its programmable to control anything midi with 32 templates! Maybe check out the Novation SL MK3 as an alternative.
Also komplete kontrol is midi mappable, so you can control it with any midi controller to gain access to navigate, select presets and control the encoder/knobs
Novation gets a lot of good reports 👍There are many alternative controllers, thank you for sharing 👍
The MKIII is amazing. Ive had my 61 (happy medium) for a year and I still don't know what some of its capabilities are for. 🙂
@@CedricSatterfield Hi - Yeah, you use what you need. I don't use all the features on mine 😊
@@Charles13X Yes, it's nice when it's done for you 😊
Interesting points - the full length touch strip is a fantastic idea!
I will be buying a MK3, as it addresses my main problems with the MK2: PolyAT, better strip placement, and direct Kontakt integration. Everything else is extra, and I think $100 upgrade price is worth it.
The faders are an interesting point, but I would personally rather have something like the console 1 fader by softube, which has 100mm faders as opposed to 60mm or even less on most midi controllers. It seems a lot of people want faders though, so I seem to be in the minority in thinking faders tend to just take up space.
It is expensive, but it also contains an in built cpu, which most midi controllers do not. I think you make a great point that really these controllers are purpose built for NKS, and are not designed to be a do it all midi keyboard. If you want that I think you are better off with the Novation SL range.
Hi - Essentially agree - apart from the faders 😊 What's the $100 upgrade from? The poly AT is a big pull. If I didn't already have a Mk ii I's probably succumb
@@IanWaugh Sorry, I worded that poorly. I meant it’s a $100 price increase from the MK2 retail price, which I think is fair for the upgrades(unless you think the Mk2 was already overpriced 🙃). Can’t wait for PolyAT!
@@MrSNEAKFREAK96 I think everything's over-priced 🤣 I think the original price of the Mk ii in the UK may have been around £550 in which case the price differential is reasonable. However, most retailers are now selling it at £350 which is closer to the 'going rate' for a similar MIDI controller. Don't know what the prices are in the US, though. But the bottom line is, it;s still a great keyboard and if you're happy, that's what counts
@@IanWaughRetailers have only recently dropped the price, & only because of the release of the MK3. For someone who uses NI instruments & the other software which will directly integrate with this hardware but doesn't have a MK2 already, the MK3 is quite attractive, I believe.
It's nearly twice the price
Agree with so much of what you say particularly the absence of faders. And .... these really need to be to the left of the keyboard for those wishing to use volume and expression for orchestral samples because they would most likely be playing the melody with their right hand and crossing over hands to reach faders would be cumbersome. Think I'll stick with my Novation Impulse 61!. Of course for those using drum pads they would prefer those to be on the left (probably) and so might be a bit cluttered for the manufacturer to have both on the left.
Well done too for raising price/value. This is often left out of reviews. When I saw the price of Mk IIs falling I thought a new version was on the way but again no faders of drum pads. Not for me! Thanks for your contribution. Subscribed.
Thank you very much. Yes, some design decisions would have to be made regarding faders and pads. Easier on the larger models and I guess you couldn't please both right and left hand users 😊 The Novation looks good with lots of controls - and a nice price, too 👍
Thanks, Ian, I love your perspective. Curious to know if the 49 and 61 key versions have those horrible, loud clicky buttons again. The Mk2 88 had nice quieter rubber ones, would love to see them rolled out to the smaller ones. But considering how quickly all the reviewers glossed over them I'm going to assume they're still clicky.
Hi - Thank you, Must say, not noticed any clickiness on my Mk ii - the Roland System 8 is in its own category here - so can't say much about it.
The buttons on MK3 are fully redesigned, quieter and more robust.
@@NativeInstruments that's great to hear, thanks!
@@NativeInstruments Hi - Thanks for stopping by. I did say in the video that construction had been improved. What do you think of the comments viewers and customers are making here?
@IanWaugh, I bought the MK2 and Komplete Standard over the summer during the sale. I use my old Maschine Jam as a control surface, and the touch strips on those make a lot of sense for mixing uses. Probably could find the Jam for 200 US or there about. Maybe less. I love the feel of the Kontrol S keybed, much better than the mushy keybed of the Akai Advance that was released around the same time as the MK2 I believe. For the MK3, another place that would have worked well for the touch strip would have been the relatively empty right side of the controller.
Hi Bradley - Yes, a good deal on the Mk ii 👍I also like the keys. You have a good set-up.
@@IanWaugh, to be fair, some of it was accidental, stumbling across good deals at the time. Over the years, I slowly became more intentional with my purchases. My musical focus is an 80s flavored mix of synthpop and hard rock, so it kinda makes sense for me to have a Komplete Kontrol S alongside my Casio Privia. I also use an Epiphone Les Paul Classic Worn equipped with a Dimarzio Super Distortion(Bridge)/Super 2(Neck) pair. I also keep a small mobile setup for getting ideas down and practice, since I travel a lot. Among the mobile setup is a Arturia Keystep, which has a surprisingly good keybed and robust feature set for a travel sized controller. Would love to see NI do a Kontrol S in a mini version or 25 key option, if possible. I think a lot of us these days work as much on the go as we do in our studios.
@@bradleyolinger1691 A good deal can be a great deal 😊NI has the M series of small keyboards but not tried them. I have a Keystep 37 which is very nice with lots of features 👍
There’s nothing quite like muting omnisphere or zebra by accidentally touching the touch strip while using the mod wheel. Am sure NI considered that a feature 😂
Anyway - I’m the same. I’m not going to be upgrading from my mkII either. 5 or 6 years since the mkII came out, and it’s like they’ve taken all our feedback and.. ignored it.
🤣 I am continually amazed at the number of bad synth design decisions. I cannot believe that musicians were involved at any stage of the process, particularly prototypes. Roland is particularly bad 😢
@@artisans8521 I didn't know that. Roland did the same (assume he's still there) with a guy whose background was printers! It's not about music or musicians any more - just the $$$... 😠😠😢
They moved the touch strip to above the wheels. Many reviewers have said they expect this to solve this issue for them. I personally believe the poly aftertouch is worth the difference between the price of a MK3 & whatever you can get for your MK2.
I always used to think I was the only idiot who accidentally mutes Omnisphere over the MK 2. 😂 By the way, I've been using Omnisphere for many years, and it still remains one of the most creative VSTs for me. Unfortunately, there are few videos about it on UA-cam.
@@bnjmnwst Hi Ben - The touch strip move is definitely a good, er, move 😊 That's a good way to look at it 👍
Having the s61 mkii, i like the quality of the keys. They moved the touch strip that was really necessary as i hate that loudnes touch strip. Fader would be the best addition ever as there is so much space for faders. I will stay with mk2
Hi Michael - Yes, this actually seems to be the attitude of 99.9% of comments here 😊
Either NI has misjusged the market or I'm attracting the wrong sort of viewers... 😄
Nice review
Thank you Mark 👍
Thank you. I am a NEW subscriber (as of right now).
Could you please do a demonstration of how to effectively track midi from the Expressive-e Osmose into Cubase for playback in audio modeling plugins (such as SWAM instruments)?
Thank you for the sub, very much appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't have an Osmose and can't help in that regard. Sorry... 😢
@@IanWaugh To you have a Twitter account? I'd gladly tag you in a tweet to see if they'd send you a demo unit (I don't have any accounts with "Meta/Facebook/IG".
@@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios That's very kind, thank you. I'm only on FB which I don't use very often. Not a big SM fan 😊 Reallt appreciate the thought.
The single touch strip is re assignable and the 8 rotory knobs and mod wheels control pretty much everything you would need the faders for i get missing drum pads but i think the intent was to pair the s series mark 3's with the machine mark3 controller having both solves most of these issues besides that i get cost and change of workflow but as with anything time with a product corrects alot of ins and outs the thing that rubs me wrong the most is ni seems to market one thing as a ladder to another so with the investment of all thier controller products and top tier software you get a single useable workflow its smart business but crappy for the consumers wallet
Hi Philip - Many users of MIDI controllers like faders - see most of the comments here - and it's disappointing not to see them on this, however anyone might use them. Yes, it's a substantial cost to buy all the hardware.
13:37 Right on point. Great review. I don't mind that NI doesn't have pads on their controllers (they have Maschine so they wouldn't anyway), but I was also expecting faders and more buttons/customization from MIDI and/or DAW control viewpoint in the MK3 keyboards. I am disappointed with Kontrol MK3 keyboards. I am looking forward to Arturia KeyLab MK3 now since I currently use the KeyLab MK2, which has so many customizable controls. And importantly, Komplete Kontrol software can work without the NI keyboards and it works almost as good and in some cases better with Arturia keyboards than NI keyboards. So, I'd rather buy a proper MIDI controller and still be able to use it with Komplete Kontrol (even if it not 100% equivalent) than buying the pricier Kontrol MK3 keyboard.
Thank you. Yes, I did mention it but many people seem to gloss over the fact that you can use Komplete with any MIDI controller by using it on-screen. Arturia's keyboards are great. Looking forward to seeing what's on the Mk iii 😊
@@IanWaugh Yes, I also saw your comment to another user below on it. I agree. I guess it could be due to some people not being familiar with NI and also because Komplete Kontrol used to be exclusive to NI keyboard users when it first came out. Glad NI made it freely available as I really love what they have done with the software and the whole idea behind it. Would love a comparison of Arturia vs NI MK3 keyboards once the Arturia one is out. Thank you and best wishes. :)
@@KaitavSapreMusic Thank you. Yes, I think KK is brilliant and I'd hate to lose it. I have, recently, been using it morer on screen than on the keyboard.
Also looking forward to seeing what Arturia does with their Mk iii 😊
Can you not use the round knobs as midi faders? As to no expression fader/knob there are spots for 4 pedals. Couldn't you use the pedals as an expression pedal? From an organist point of view this makes more sense to me than a knob or fader.
Hi James - yes, mentioned using the knobs for mixing in the vid 😊
Yes, you can use a pedal for expression AFAICT. I am an organist but more used to using pedals for volume. I might give it a try but, without trying, prefer the idea of using faders 😊
Our philosophy is not that one is right and one is wrong.
Endless encoders will always snap to the correct values.
Motorized faders will too.
And so on and so forth. Faders are great - you can understand why some users want them, and why they want them in combination with the deep expression and integration Kontrol S MK3 provides.
However, a non motorized fader isn’t all that useful, and would garner complaints as well. A motorized fader would simply be a different product: much more expensive, and more of a studio / console type controller rather than a performance instrument per se.
It’s not that we wouldn’t ever, or think faders are bad, it’s that they didn’t make sense here. A majority of our users don’t use and don’t want them.
@@NativeInstruments All this is true. Well, not sure about the last line 😊 Most people think about faders for mixing and there are a couple of ways around the non-motorised problem although I haven't tried them (not having faders) so they may not be viable 😄 However, faders have other uses beyond mixing.
Thanks for your review! Subscribed NI MKIII does nothing new and still has no faders
Thank you so much 😊 It is a pizzle...
Thank you so much NI! I am gonna stick to my MK2! I expected faders at least.
Yeah, me too 😊
@@IanWaugh Thanks Ian for doing this! Appreciate your effort 🙂
@@Ahmad-Mounir44 Thank you. Glad you found it helpful 👍
The lack of faders and drum pads has made me hesitant to buy this keyboard. What other controller would compliment this keyboard that has pads and faders? Thanks for the review.
Hey Darren - Series 3 seems more aaimed at Komplete and Kontakt control than as a general MIDI controller. There are many other controllers with pads and faders including Arturia's keyboard range. NI's own Maschine would integrate well )which I think is their goal) 😊
Re: faders, one thing I like about KK is the flat top, so you can put faders on the left or right, mouse, keyboard, drawing tablet, whatever. What frustrated me most shopping last time were keyboards that were otherwise perfect, but the faders were on the wrong side.
Couldn't agree more! Faders on the right side of a keyboard are of no use to me. Funny, but knobs can be just about anywhere and I'm okay with that, but faders have to be on the right in my book.
Good point! Maybe companies should make left- and right-hand versions 😊 I have the S49 and there's just enough room on the left and right for maybe 2 faders. However, I'd probably put them on the desk. What faders would you recommend?
What are faders? Would u care to explain?
Google is your friend 😊 kettnercreative.com/audio-mixer/what-is-an-audio-fader/
I sure wish I’d gone with the 88 key keylab instead of the 61, the weighted keys sound like they’d be incredible. Arturia makes great stuff! Aside from the essentials
😄 Yes they do. I'm more a synth player than a piano player and generally prefer a synth action but I have had some weighted keyboards which were great, too 👍
I have the Arturia Keylab 88 MK2. It’s got a nice keybed. Also great for controlling Keylab. It has very basic DAW transport controls for various DAWs. But the knobs and faders do not feel very good to me. No screen or scribble strips on it either. I would also love to see dedicated sequencer controls on the next version.
@@aquaticborealis4877 That's interesting. I've only ever had the MiniLab Mk ii which, for a mini keyboard, was excellent. It's widely anticipated that Mk iii versions will be announced soon, so we will see...
@@IanWaugh I will say that the connection options on the Keylab 88 MK2 are pretty good. Looking forward to seeing what the next one offers.
@@aquaticborealis4877 Hopefully very soon 👍
Expensive indeed. And after buying the keyboard one is lured into buying Komplete Kontrol 14 upgrade (the standard edition is around 400 $ ) ...
BTW: when buying a second hand KK S Series, the license of the KK software is presumably not included. Thanks Ian!
Hi Bert - Yes, I think you really need to buy into the NI (@NativeInstruments) software and eco system to get the most out of it. Whether or not that's a value proposition is your choice. I really like the system but...
If you buy 2nd-hand you should also get any software that was included with the keyboard but not any upgrades. If you have upgraded a few times, you can't sell the previous upgrade as the current upgrade price would depend on you having the previous version. Hope that makes sense. You would need to clarify exactly what you're getting with the seller.
@@IanWaugh Of course, but I made this remark since I already own KK14 Collectors edition. Cheers!
@@BertFlanders Ah, OK 👍
Thanks for your thoughts ! NO FADERS --- NO EXPRESSION CONTROL its really disappointing !!! Even lo LED indicators around the knobs....This is not a Masterkeyboard BUT its maybe the best NKS Kontroller. I do not like NI so much (even when I am from Berlin) But I think I will buy it, because you can operate Arturia`s V Collection via NKS but not KOMPLETE with and Arturia. I really like the Arturia stuff, hopefully Arturia will present their MK3 in the next weeks. So lets wait until end of October. And hey to the people who cry about the price - the price is more than fair- do you know what are development costs are and dramatically changed component prices, you want one of the best so you have to pay for it !!!
Hey Christian - Yes, probably the best NI/Komplete controller - although it doesn't have much competition 😄 Be interesting to see what Arturia does. I wonder if it would be possible for another company to produce a Komplete controller keyboard. That would be REALLY interesting 😊
I'm definitely glad my KK doesn't have faders. ONE could be ok, but I didn't buy one to be a mixer. A keyboard covered with faders would make them much bigger than they are now. I'll buy a controller for that purpose when I see the need.
That's fine, you don't need faders. But many people like them and use them and not only for mixing. Many other controllers manage to include them 😊
Incredibly enigmatic, trance-inducing music. Wonderful.
A little like your comment... 😎
Do the old versions of these keyboards become paper weights when a new one comes out? I am afraid of what.
According to NI the Mk 1 will not be supported going forwrward. Not sure if that means it won't support Komplete 3 butt it supports KK 2 so you can stick at that.
AFAIK the Mk 2is stillsupported although as the software and hardware integration in Mk 3 advances, there will certainly be areas which it is unable to support. For example, Mk 3 supports direct Kontakt integration. The Mk 2 does not but all its existing features still work.
I really thouht they would add more control too. Faders, drumpads (why not) but AT LEAST I thought they would put a touchscreen... nowaday you can perform expression, you can tweak things in so many ways with touchscreen! You could have the mixer directly on the screen and touch to modify the value, you could use it as modwheel ... I'm thinking about something a little bit similar to the Erae touch.
About the drumpads... like in Akai and Arturia controler, they can be use to lauch your clip or scene in ableton for example, not only for drumming, so the Maschine argument doesnt stand. well.... I think I will wait for MK4 lol.... MK3 doesnt offer what I expected.
Hi Benoit - Yes, there's so much they could/should have done but didn't. I think virtually all the commenters here are in agreement. Be interesting to see what they drop in Mk iv 😊
I just got my kontrol 61 going. Mind blown! It makes pulling up my plugins a breeze. I paid $1800 for my Akai Mpc key. The Akai is the best standalone. The komplete kontrol is the best midi controller hands down.
Great stuff. Good to hear 👍
Nice video, I still have and use my Maschine MK3, amongst my other synths and the Novation SL MK3, which has feathers......😂😂
Thank you. Yes, alas, I have a few synths I've hardly used... 😢
Nice one mate
Cheers Matey 👍
Not a keyboard with Polyphonic Afftertouch but it does have Aftertouch and good VST and DAW integration is the Nektar Panorama series. The T series can be had for well under half the price of the Mk3 S series NI keyboards with drum pads and faders as well.
I do like the screen and accessibility of the NKS Instruments from the NI S series boards but ......
Hi Pierre - Yes, they have a good reputation. I keep wondering if anyone else could make a keyboard with similar Komplete support. That would throw the cat among the pidgeons... 😊
@@IanWaugh Not so much Komplete Kontrol Support but good mapping for Kontakt and other NKS Instruments.
I don't use the Nektarine plugin, just direct Panorama T6 to VST and it seems to work well especially in Reaper. Got to do more with it.
@@pierrebroccoli.9396 You need to find what works for you 👍 Not always easy so great when it all comes together 😊
I personally use the akai mpk261 (have this controller for 7 years now)...there is just everything on it (faders, knobs, drum pads, buttons) not to mention that it has 4 banks of 16 Drum Pads and 3 banks of 8 buttons/faders/knobs. Also one thing no one talks about is that the knobs on komplete kontrol are super stiff (equally true for the maschine controller) and they move the parameters they control very slow, so don't even think about fast transition moves/automation on these knobs.
Also the browsing on these keyboards is kind of a joke in itself. Just think about it for a second : "does the browsing/loading on the controller compared to just using your mouse/pc keyboard make you really noticeable more efficient or a better musician"?
Just wanted to say that this video is super helpful and honest. These type of videos should be coming more, because all the people that noramlly review these products just talk about all the shiny features but forget to ask the question if this product is really necessary or does something innovative or new...often they don't.
If you just want to make music on the computer you really need just one of these classic keboard controllers (like the akai mpk261) and you got everything you really need for playing/controlling your software instruments and your DAW.
But this is just my opinion, so I might be wrong on all of this. I just want to share my personal experience (needlessly bought the komplete kontrol A61 & the maschine mk3, so I know how these controllers feel).
Thank you for your very kind comments and super post 👍
First, you're not at all wrong. controllers are very personal and you've found what works for you and, I'm sure, many other people have a similar workflow.
I have a S49 Mk ii and don;t find the controls stiff so surprised at that.
The browser is a matter of preference. Sometimes I use it but recently have been using the on-screen browser more. However, the main benefit is in the automatic mapping of synth parameters to the keyboard controls which I do find very useful and just plain fun 😊
I got one first one brought but if i never upgraded i think it make a great entry product right?
Hi Chris - I think it's probably a fine keyboard for what it does but there are so many things it doesn't do for a MIDI controller...
Great thank you for the info only midi control i did used was back in school days late 90's connected to an ibm i bet alot has changed. @@IanWaugh
@@chrisw7612 A little... 😄
I see ableton isn't exactly free despite they put it. in the package as a demo same as reaktor. kinda silly not giving full access despite retailers said it comes with alot of software including these doesn't say demo / trail that going to catch alot people out.
@@chrisw7612 I don't know what's included. Usually with these things they include Lite versions of software.
Thanks, I agree, cost too much for new features. Display and Poly AT are very good features. Keeping MK2 for now. Arturia lacks arpeggiator on board but has pads. Comments on keys w/o AT are spot on - what are they thinking?? Sub.
Thank you Sam 👍I think NI has their own plan for separate Komplete and Maschine controllers but they have ignored the wishes and needs of many of their customers... 😢
@@IanWaugh The other issue I have with NI is overwhelming choices like on the old M-Audio VIP tech. Having all my software synths presets sort-able is a good thing conceptually but for me, in practical terms there are too many choices. Admittedly, I am too lazy to configure it intelligently so I use Kontakt more than Komplete.
@@Sam_Utah 😄 I know exactly what you mean. I have a silly number of synths, many not NKS, so it's easy to get overwhelmed by choice. There is a thing about creative limitations which suggests that limiting your options can induce greater creativity. For example, I might scour my presets for an inspirational sound but then try to limit myself to that synth for ongoing composition. It sorta works... 😊
@@IanWaugh Thanks, Sage advice.
@@Sam_Utah 👍
I’m waiting on Arturia to drop a new midi with drum pads on the right side of their boards with either a bigger display screen or a screen that’s adjustable to flip towards the player.
I also hope Arturia will improve the Keylab Mk3 Keyboard quality when releasing it, as well as the pads quality, both of which are really underpar to the competition (novation or Native Instruments), without even mentioning an improved version of their Analog Lab software, which I find terrible to browse through and filter thousands of presets and dozens of instruments.
That would be cool. You got inside information? 😊
The current keys have been out for a while. I was expecting the release of the MiniLab Mk iii to be the start of a new version. We'll see...
@@IanWaugh Well they're released the Minilab III earlier this year indeed as well as the more recent Keylab Essentials Mk3, which seems to signal more hardware to come.
Given the feedback given to Arturia about their keyboards, the age of the Keylab Mk2 and the Analog Lab controlling software + the lack of other releases this year, I would be very surprised if a Keylab Mk3 wasn't announced in the next couple of weeks or months.
If they didn't have something in the works, they could lose a fair amount of market shares to NI
@@judor5705 I'd definitely go with that 👍
@@judor5705 I'm sure Arturia will release a new Keylab Mk3 very soon.....
As much as I like the bling new screen I’m glad that the new models are pushing retailers to discount the mk2 models. The S61 mk2 is now on sale @ £435 and suspect this will fall further. I shall be buying one of these soon rather then the mk3
Yes! Someone said the best thing about the Mk ii is the reduction in price of the Mk ii 😄
I wouldn't have wanted faders but rows of touch strips. This way, whatever the virtual fader positions are on software would simply move from that position. In lieu of that, continuous rotary encoders would work better than actual faders where the parameters would be fixed to where ever the fader position is or the fader has to be moved to the parameter position before changes would be made.
Touch strips are a nice idea. Understand the prob with faders but there are ways around that for mixing and faders are useful for other things, too. As mentioned, I tried mixing with the encoders and just didn't like it
Im about to jump into the Komplete Kontrol Market and am happy to see the upgrade now, rather than after I hit the button on MK2. I'm fairly sold into the NI ecosystem, so this looks the business.
But... WHY STILL NO FADERS?!?
Hi Sean - Yes, I think it's a good keyboard for what it does. Also be aware that some features, maybe DAW integration and possibly some aspects of Komplete Kontrol 3 do not yet seem to be fully implemented. I really like the NI (@NativeInstruments) eco system but, like you and many others, the lack of faders is difficult to understand especially whern other (cheaper) controllers have them. NI says it;s because they don't jump to position like the encoders but theywould still be incredibly useful for many operations.
I agree that the omission of faders is inexcusable. The reason they're missing is (IMHO) that there would be no where on the display to show what the faders are doing. The knobs and buttons are above and below the big display for a reason. So they'd have to add another display (or small oled's under each fader) to make it work well.
They say it's because faders don't work well for mixing unless they are motorised which would be expensivfe. But there are many other uses for non-motorised faders and most other controllers manage to include them.
@@IanWaugh Exactly, plenty of controllers with non-motorised faders. Like every one I know of - and they work fine.
@@jsfbay1 Exactly! So their omission is very strange and will doubtless lose them many users.
Yes, stay away from the MK3. I have a MK2 61. I use my ipad pro as external screen (sidecar) for Komplete control on the keyboard. Whauw! you can see what you change with your knobs directly on the iPad. This works amazing. I had this brainwave last night and it works!!
Hey Jerome - excellent idea 👍
Reminds me of what Ableton did with the new Push. It led me to re-buy a mint condition and barely used Push 2. I'd do the same with this controller if I wanted a Komplete controller.
Yes, it seems once companies get to a certain size they can make a cash grab. Losing a few % of customers won't drastically affect their bottom line and there will always be new customers coming on board thanks to reviews which don't point out the weaknesses in products... 😊
To say the same thing perhaps a different way - as products mature, and become more things to more people, it sometimes requires tough prioritizations to ensure they remain well focused enough for the core and majority use cases, or otherwise risk becoming defocused and nothing to anyone.
As in this example (a loud niche of users understandably asking after Maschine integration) the honest answers have been given, plus the commitment to continue to support Kontrol S MK2 for all existing users indefinitely.
@@NativeInstruments Certainly, but that's a bit of a corporate answer 😎 Do you think it would be beneficial for customers if you said you were diversifying Komplete and Maschine so they understood what's going on? Some may not like it but they would have your commitment and not have to rely on 3rd party speculations from channels such as this? 😊
I don't need all that extra stuff, I just want a Fatar TP9 keybed, and I found it in an older unit for $100 USD.
Hey Jeffrey - Yes, the Fatars are a good standard and Wow! That's a deal! What keyboard is it?
Novation SL Mk TWO (not the three, not the newish one). It pisses me off that all thse makers cheaped out on the keybeds, because the customers are not musicians.@@IanWaugh
@@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton Not familiar with the Novation keys. Fatar bed have a good rep. I'm sure you can get really cheap, poor quality ones, though - Arturia Essentials, Korg original Avestate, Op-Six etc.
It's the Fatar TP9, same one in Moog, Sequential Circuits Prophet, etc. Also in my Studiologic (which owns Fatar) Numa Compact 2x. It;s by far the most "playable" (for a pianist) keybed in the non-hammer weight category. I actually bought (and returned) the Prophet 10 module; SC charges $600 more for the unit with this keybed.@@IanWaugh So, for $400 instead of $4000, I essentially have a Prophet 10 with keys with my Novation SC Mark TWO and a $300 Behringer Pro-800.
@@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton Excellent! That's a great setup. Temmpted by the Studiologic. Only recently discovered it was made by Fatar
Great review, thank you! Subbed. I agree fully that the other reviews, while informative, are lacking in opinions or any critical approach. There seems to be an emphasis in those reviews at the beginning that they are independent and not sponsored, yet they did receive their item for free and can keep it, hmmm...
Thank you, Tom, very much appreciated. You might want to watch the 'shills' video in Description. I'd be interested in your take (read between the lines a bit 😊)
I waiting ARTURIA KEYLAB MK3 61 keys ,because I don’t need a NKS format for my daw (Logic Pro) and a Big Display that don’t see in automatic all my Arturia plugins Box! I hope will come out soon!
If you don't use Komplete you don't need it. The Arturia keyboards look good. We're all waiting to see what' in Mk iii 😊
Arturia have updated their Keylab to MK3 and have improved the Essential series. A good cheaper midi controller alternative
Not heard this yet. Will defo check it out 👍
@@IanWaugh They have faders as well 😄
@@dimutech I like faders 😊
I wouldn’t care about the price, it could even be more expensive if only it had Faders, Pads and eventually touchscreen… bonus would be an onboard small audio interface such Maschine mk3.
PS: i would even be happy with 4-8 touch strip instead of faders… like the ones on Maschine Jam. That would be better than nothing!
Hi Phil - Now THAT would be a controller keyboard 👍
Don’t forget this comes with basically the same software bundle as an £80 M32. I’ve got a mk3 and Maschine plus and an S61 mk2, giving up on Maschine support means no sale here
Yeah, poor software bundle and a blow to Maschine users... 😢
I was just checking out what they dropped on the controls you mentioned about for Maschine on the keyboard, which you said they claim nobody uses. It's all of them! There is no Maschine interface at all anymore, and the software included does not come with Maschine 2 either. Nobody uses that? I have the S88 MKll, and I most definitely use that. I certainly am glad I have this keyboard, and will never consider upgrading. I would gain a prettier display, and lose a major functionality of it for nothing of that much value add.
They are definitely trying to force people to buy Maschine as a hardware device separate. It's not that people weren't using it. They certainly are. It's just that they want to force people to spend another chunk of change and have more hardware sales.
Hi Keith - Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head. NI is actually a massive company and I think it's being governed by corporate policies without regard for its users. You can see this in some other synth companies, too. NI has a really good product but seems to be pushing its agenda without regard to what users actually want. We can only vote with out wallets...
Hi folks!
The Maschine integration was deprioritized for MK3 as simply put: a significant majority of MK2 users never used it, including even those users who owned both MK2 and Maschine.
The presence of Maschine specific buttons that did nothing for non-users was a common source of confusion for many people.
In prioritizing keyboard users, and new users in general, with Kontrol MK3, it’s worth nothing that Kontrol MK2 is still fully supported, taking nothing away.
These products are designed and built by people as passionate and creative as y’all. It wouldn’t do a lot of good otherwise!
@@NativeInstruments I did mention this in the video but thank you for confirming 👍
Seriously considerting upgrading...to a Hydrasynth. Ok, being facetious but it has great controller capability, a touch strip along the top of the keyboard and a great Poly aftertouch keybed....you also get a fantastic synth engine. Used you can get one for the same price as the S series MKIII new. I couldn't justify paying that for purely a controller keyboard with limitations.
Hi Steve - Yes, the Hydras are great 👍
The S Series is mainly useful if you want the keyboard integration with Komplete...
@@IanWaugh I also have a Roland A800 pro which in my opinion is the best controller keybed out there, nice feeling faders and knobs but also has the silly dual function wheel...as a combo it would work fine
@@stevejeffries5403 Nice. Ultimately you have to find what works for you 👍
I think faders only make sense when you got motor faders otherwise you don't really have total recall.
That is absolutely the ideal but if you start with the faders, that can work. Depends on the project in some cases it's probably not viable but if you mix after recording a piece it can work well. Faders are also useful for many other functions
And no one seems to be saying what the keybed is? I was all set to buy the S88 Mk2 until I started researching the TP/100. I'd buy a Mk3 S88 if they did a Pro version with Fatar's best action
Hi David - Interestingly, Native Instruments themselves chimed in with a comment on another post which you might find helpful:
"The Kontrol S MK3 uses revised models of the TP9 and TP100 developed in close collaboration with Fatar and available only in the MK3. It’s not just polyphonic aftertouch - these keybeds feel massively improved."
Really wanted a Mk3 for the lights, but found an SL2 for 120 quid, Bitwig Driven By Moss Good to go.
Bargain! Awesome 👍
If they added drum pads. I would have bought it.
If they'd also added faders, I would, too 😄
I will be sticking with my MK2. I only got it for the discount on software. I rarely use the actual keyboard.
Hi - Yes, I think most Commenters here are sticking with their Mk ii. If you don't use the keyboard, what do you use?
@@IanWaugh I do most of my mixing and writing over remote desktop from my phone now
@@Random667 Wow! That's cool 😎
I got the S88 but thought the keys were WAY to hard to press. Maybe three times harder than my grand piano. So I sent it back. I may get the 61 keys version instead.
Not tried the 88. Although I started on the piano I do prefer synth action keys 😊
@@IanWaughI have no idea what they were thinking with the S88. It was so hard to press the keys so when I played the black keys and would press the top of the white I could almost not play them. Maybe its an issue with this copy. So the smaller version with synth keys is probably better. I may get a Kawai CA900 or so for proper piano keybed. Kawaii does the best that I have tried. For piano I also like that the speakers are built into the box so you hear the vibrations.
@@andreasoberg2021 That's cool 👍 Strange about the 88. I'm guessing you don't have a local store where you can try them?
@@IanWaughProbably not. I moved up to the mountains in Cyprus. Beautiful beaches, flowers and sun, but not as many music stores sadly. I will prob just get the 61. I also recently got a Quantum Mk2 and love the keyboard. Very synth like, but really perfect. I plan to use Kontakt a lot so cannot quite decide if I need Native Instrument keyboard or if I should use another one. I did think it was nice with the screen and the controls when I tried them before. So probably still a good idea.
@@andreasoberg2021 Cyprus - what a great location to make music 👍 You don't need a NI keyboard for Kontakt but the integration is great. However, as a general purpose MIDI controller it lacks some features - see video 😄
Looking at the software bundle that comes with the new NI keyboards, it feels like the keyboards are effectively meant as a carrot to trick you into buying into their expensive plugin ecosystem. Don't get me wrong, Native Instruments have plenty of good plugins, but they also DO price their products, both plugins and hardware as though they are a "boutique" brand. They feel like the Apple of the music industry, trying to make their products feel exclusive thanks to higher prices. If the new keyboards came with Komplete 14 Standard, I'd probably have argued that as a package, it seems like decent value, but Komplete 14 Select? That just instantly made me think "Yeah, they're just trying to reel you in so they can sell you their proper plugins."
Hi Rebecca - Yes, I think you're right. Select is just a taster to hook you 😊 I think the Komplete bundles are reasonable value but only assuming you want all the plugins. Individually, as you say, they are expensive. NI has become very corporate 😢
One thing i do no understand is why they wont just add more knobs and sliders fir more hands on controls
Hey Doc - yes, this is puzzling a lot of people. They are automatically alienating a large part of the market 😲
It’s fair to say the same in reverse. Not all users want to pay more for features they won’t use. Faders are great… and there are great products that include them. There are also products that include non motorized faders, which start to become cheaper and less useful alike.
To each their own!
@@NativeInstruments This is true. You can't please everyone but faders are useful for functions other than mixing and many people expect faders on a controller whether or not they actually use them 😊
Thank you very much for your warning Ian. New is not always better.
Most of the time I use my old Korg Z1 from 1997 with aftertouch, fantastic keys and incredable sounds that's still going strong without any problem.
Hi - Thank you. Your Korg has served you well. As they say - if it ain't broke, why fix it? 😊
Too late! Already bought it....but love it!!
Ha! Ha! As long as it does what you want and you're happy with it, that's the main thing 👍
This is a fair review. I would like NI or Arturia to sell their controllers with all the premium features WITHOUT the keyboard. Neither of their top keyboards have the kind of keybed or mechanism I’m looking to play, but I would make use of their displays, software and controllers.
And at the price they’re asking, I can more closely justify a Kawai VPC1 or MP11 SE and continue to use the extra fader controllers I already own. Hard pass.
Thank you. That's interesting. Most folks like the Fatars but, at the end of the dayy, keyboards are a very personal thing and you have to go with what suits you best 👍
@@IanWaugh Absolutely correct. It is a personal thing.
I still use the M-Audio Keystation Pro-88 from about fifteen years ago. It has nine faders, 28 knobs, pitch bend and mod wheel with a Fatar keybed. If and when I upgrade it will be with something worth upgrading to.
I don't love Fatar keybeds. I have to constantly edit my velocity. I made the drive to Sweetwater last month for a couple of hours and played every controller (the new Studio Logic Pro 88, Arturia, Native Instruments and the Kawai, which is pretty old now, but still my favorite among controllers) and electronic piano (the Rolands, Yamaha CP and the Clavinova, Nords) and nothing compared to that Kawai for me. Then I sat at a Yamaha Grand to decompress. THAT felt good.
So yeah, it's definitely personal taste. I hear all of these guys who say, "I play piano and..." and none of it matters until you test drive them for yourself.
@@dbmusicproductions9181 So true. Alas, we don't all have access to a store that has all this gear. I think many make a choice through ads and reviews.
Over the years I've played dozens of different keys and organs. It's probably easier to say which ones I didn't like. Hated the old full-size Hammond keys but the spinet versions were OK.
Best synth keyboard I can recall was on the Yamaha SY77 😊
I' pre ordered mine because I don't have a mk2 .. it will run great with my maschine mk3 for my set up. Maschine mk3 is my center of my studio so don't care about the buttons on the keyboard or pads they would be to small.. this will be better than my fantom x6 pretending to be my midi controller lol
Good stuff! Yes, that will be a great combo 👍
The Mk3 doesn't require plugins to be opened in the Komplete Kontrol plugin (which is slow to load and uses more CPU). The MK works directly with Kontakt and other plugins.
Hi Craig - Yes, I didn't mean to give a totally bad impression of the Mk iii. It has some nice additions but, what is disappointing is that it could and should have been much more...
@@IanWaugh You made some good points in your video. The MK3 could be better. There are things I would have liked to have seen added that have been leftout, such as faders and more controls.
Unfortunately for me Komplete Kontrol with the MK 2 is just a nightmare for large templates and makes the keyboard of limited use.
@@craighillcomposer Ah, I can appreciate that. You gotta get the tools that work for you. If I still had the Mk i I would certainly have upgraded. Most of the stuff I do doesn't require a large template. Fortunately... 😊
@@IanWaugh Yep. I can understand for other genres of music it's not as applicable. For composing for media, dropping the Komplete Kontrol wrapper alone is a massive improvement. It might be the difference between a project loading in 6 minutes, instead of 15 minutes.
@craighillcomposer9385 Totally understand. Not wanting to teach my granny to suck eggs and all, but do you use a VSL link thing that is supposed to load templates more quickly? Bit fuzzy about this now but did Guy Michelmore's Template in a weekend course. Got the VSL working - and on 1 PC - but never managed to set up a successful template ,
I would have liked you to compare the “feel” of the keys between the versions and the competition. I have an A series kontroller which is awful. But what can I get that is better?
Hi Tom - Alas, I am not a proper reviewer with access to all those things 😄 Fatar keybeds are well-regarded. Don't know what's in the A series. But ultimately, touch is a personal thing and you should try for yourself if you can.
I'm thinking more and more about the Kawai VPC1. A real piano keybed midi keyboard. As the NI S88 MK3 has no faders, no pads ... and I have to buy a separate midi controller for my vsts, why not buying a real piano-keybed midi controller for the same money (1330 €).
Hey Jack - Yes, makes sense. I used piano keys years ago before controllers were much of a thing. You can control Komplete on screen. The big advantage of NI's keys is that you get parameter mapping direct from the VST to the knobs.
They look nice but the price whoa. Then again the market decides that…..If I ever go down this route I ant a keyboard that lets you see your daw inside the display. Is that possible at the moment? Otherwise I will pass. I don’t want to keep tooling and froing
That's an interesting idea - but can you imagine how small the DAW would appear? Not sure that tech is available yet although it can't be so much different from connecting your computer to a monitor. I guess the interaction would be more difficult. We sort of have a bit of this with buttons to control transport, cycles, mixing and we can tweak presets.
I think my reasoning here is that I want the flexibility of a daw but an experience like a workstation.
If only a major daw would team up with this tech.
If you look at Garageband on the Mac it works really well on an Iphone despite the resolution and form factor.
It would be nice to be able to sit at a midi keyboard and not have to use a mouse for anything.
I'd also like to see a touch screen. If the Korg Trinity could do it 25 years ago and we have ipads and iphones - how comes now we don't have in a keyboard like this? Very backwards to me.
@@IanWaugh
@@axs203 Hmm, ok, I see where you're coming from but I personally find the use of Garage Band on an iPhone somewhat less than optimal. I just think trying to cram so much info into such a small space is not viable. But who knows what might be round the corner...? 😊
I'll stick to buying a hydrasyth ..then use all features with whatever software
That's a really good option 👍
The Kurzweil 2700 has an excellent ribbon controller and the keyboard sounds are killer. Yes, it cost more but you get what you pay for, unlike native instruments, which gives you tiny improvements at premium prices. The Kurzweil 2700 also has an easy to use excellent Music sequencer and an advance Arpeggiator and the keyboard action is second to none. Professional keyboard players from around the world have been using the Kurzweil keyboards for over 30 years on stage and in studios.
Yes, always like the Kurzweil stuff 👍 Many alternative MIDI controllers out there.
MacOS 12 or 13 requirement annoys me. I'm keeping my current system on 10.14 until it's replaced.. and I can't use a blinkin' MIDI controller?
Poly-AT is very welcome anyway.. but got Hydra and Osmose for that
Hi - not doing a Mac vs PC thing but we don't seem to have that problem with Windows. However, can certainly appreciate the annoyance 😢Osmose and Hydra - awesome! Do you have a favourite?
I use Windows (and Linux) as well, but the Mac is the one dedicated to music stuff.
The Hydra is great, but the expressivity of the Osmose is just in a whole other league. I've not tried these new Fatar poly-at keybeds yet (also in Iridium, Quantum mk2, upcoming Super Gemini and Anyma Omega).. but I imagine it'll be the same story there. You basically get a whole second key travel's worth of aftertouch in the Osmose after you've reached the bottom of the normal key travel range
@@Wagoo So many synths... Really interested in the Osmose so have to see if it's in my local music shop.
Novation MIDI controllers don't seem to get mentioned much.
That's true. I thhink Sanjay C might have covered them.
For such a huge controller, there was enough space to add at least 8 faders, some pads and even knock off Panorama and add a motorized fader. I get that for the Kontakt users this can be good, but the controller goes against the ecosystem mk1 was built for - Maschine. Also, I expected more physical controls. 10 years later, Nektar Panorama is still the king of the controllers, as you can have super deep integration into Cubase/Nuendo (and not basic transport functions only, but control of ALL plugins, both native and 3rd party. You can map pages of controls to your favourite instruments, like East West and trigger all kinds of articulations, control soft synths, and then just change mode and get a MIDI controller for hardware synths).QUERTY macro controls with a button, string of 8 complex commands? Why is it NI can't get arsed to do something like this, instead, they killed that little control they had with their native DAW. Also, except for bigger screen (no touch?) and polyphonic aftertouch, I don't see a single upgrade to MK2. Lights? Were there on MK1. Communication with KC? Was there in MK1. Transport is the same as in MK1. For such a bump in price, I expected better. What is it that you as heavy Kontakt users can do with this that you couldn't before? I feel as NI lost the thread - just so we are clear, NI is probably my favourite software developer, and I have spent a lot of money on their products since Generator, so I feel that I am entitled to critique.
Hi - Yes, you're basically echoing the feelings of most of the Commenters here. It IS a benefit to Kontakt users but there is so much more they could have done but didn't. I think they're positioning this more as a Komplete controller rather than an overall MIDI controller and trying to move people to get both this and Maschine if they want drum pads 😢
@@IanWaugh Yeah but see, this is what makes zero sense - they MADE it for Maschine, or as you say, to be paired with the Maschine, and on MK3 they COMPLETELY disconnected it from the Maschine eco - you'd expect at least the same level of integration as before, now there is NONE. So, why would I buy this if I have Maschine, when I can't use it within the Maschine DAW as MK2? Terrible commercial reasoning, and not the first from NI I am afraid (Machine Plus shambles). Again, I am not a shill for Nektar, but both Panorama, Arturia lab and many others sport at least 4x4 pad grid. Why is this so hard to add, on the controller this big? It is Kontakt controller - but it is too expensive, honestly, with little to no improvement, and significant setbacks compared to MK2.
@@earlsfield Yes to all that😊 I was trying to explain what I think is the corporate (and possibly commercial?) reasoning behind it.
It doesn't make sense to most of the folks who have commented here. NI will lose a few K sales. In the larger scheme of things, that probably doesn't matter to them... But they have certainly upset a sizeable core of users.
for such a small improvement...I don't regret buying my 61 mk2 for 450 euros...since they stopped integrating the mk1...I saved 30%! I will buy the mk3 when the mk4 comes out 😂
Ha! Ha! That's a good policy - good thinking 👍
I have the MK2 version and will not buy the new one. I was waiting for it but it’s way too expensive!!! Crazy price !!! I feel NI is going mad…
Hi - If you look through the Comments, a lot of people feel the same way.
When comparing prices, don't forget that the £ & € prices include VAT. The $ price doesn't!
Indeed. But as I understand it from a friend in the US, not everyone pays tax (or as much) on all purchases. And I don't understand that either... 😊
Yes, Americans are weird. We all know that. The reason is that diffrent satates have different salestaxes. The same as they vary in different countries in Europe.
The big difference is that, in Europe, the tax is included on the price sticker. In the US it isn't!
I am pleased that, when I grab a can of beans in the grocery store, I pay what the sticker says and is not surprised by being charged extra at the checkout. Soething that confuses anyone who visits the US.
It is imortant to point out the tax issue when comparing prices in the US and elsewhere.
For example, in Europe, you need to add 15-25% (depending on which country you live in) to the stated price, to make a valid comparisson of the REAL price difference.
@@svenisaksson3970 No wonder we're confused 😊 My understanding is that some states don't collect a sales tax so I guess it makes it difficult to do a reasonable comparison.
Hey Ian!
Hey John 😊
Two points. The 49 SL Mk2 used the fantastic Fatar TP9/S, (as used on The Moog voyager, Nord Wave 1 and Dave Smith synths like the Prophets and so on) the Mk3 does not and Novation are not revealing what key-bed they have opted for in the Mk3 other than to say, its not the Fatar TP9/S. There goes your slick soloing and key-bed feed back. Second point, the lights over the key-bed remind me of a cheap fairground. What’t the point in lighting up what keys are being triggered? I don’t get it and it’s visually both distracting and irritating.
Hi Bob - Interesting about the keybeds. Why would they not tel...?
I think the lights are more for beginners when they show scales. However, when used with sample libraries, for example, they can show key switch keys which can be very helpful. Not sure if you can switch them off, though...
The Kontrol S MK3 uses revised models of the TP9 and TP100 developed in close collaboration with Fatar and available only in the MK3. It’s not just polyphonic aftertouch - these keybeds feel massively improved.
@@NativeInstruments Thank you for the additional info. I'm sure people will find it very helpful 👍
@@NativeInstruments That’s interesting to know because I was never a fan of the Fatar TP100 as used on the Nord Electro’s; especially considering its meant to be a Hammond C3/B3 substitute with sample playback features added. In fact I was so disappointed by the Nord Electro 6, I quickly sold it on. Same with the Nord Piano 3 and Nord Stage 2 (both of which I owned and got rid of very quickly only to settle on the Yamaha CP88 which is, (in my opinion) the best piano key-bed available. As far as synth key-beds go, perhaps I’m biased, but having owned around 20 synthesizers over the years, I think I know a good key-bed when I play it. I’m sure the NI controllers are miles better than say, a Korg Opsix, Wavestate & Mod wave whose fantastic synth engines are badly let down by the worst 37 note keybeds ever. In fact, they don’t feel any better than a Korg Monopoly/Polysix from 30 years ago. Shocking. I guess, keybed feel is a personal thing, but not if you actually want to engage with the sound (Osmose Expressive E?) and really get the responses you want from the synths, otherwise its just a 12 tone trigger that could be shrunk and would make no difference. I found an immaculate and quickly bought a NI 49 SL Mk2 the other day. Lovely. A TP9/S keybed USB, Two midi outs and a midi in plus a thru, expression jack and sustain jack not to mention loads of encoders and Ableton Live Compatibility, so thank you NI for such a great product.
@@IanWaughOne more question. Can you turn those blinky light above the keyboard off, or are they always on?