Toivonen - " I never attack, this is a calm rally. Leading by nearly 3 minutes!!! ,lol. Shows that he was in a different league to all the other drivers on Asphalt and in the Delta S4.
Le problème c est que là puissance des moteur évoluait très vite mais pas le reste de la voiture c est a dire freins amortisseurs boîte de vitesse etc. A la fin des rallye les pilotes étaient physiquement détruit. Franchement cette période était passionnante car il y avait beaucoup de constructeurs compétitif mais aussi extrêmement dangereuse pour les pilotes et les spectateurs.
Bien sur que oui ! j'ai un buggy radio commandé a moteur thermique 3cm3 / 3cv !!!!énnnnnome et justement meme a l'echelle 1/10 , optimiser le moteur sans toucher aux suspensions / freins c'est débile ! je vois encore mon model réduit s'envoler a 70km/h sur un tout petit nid de poule et pourquoi ? suspensions bien trop souples ...y'a eu de la casse que j'ai pu réparer mais pas mort d'homme ...
Reporter : "Was Lancia waiting on such a rally beginning from Toivonen ?" Cresto : "No, as he wasn't in his full physical condition" Reporter : "The sicker he is, the better his time is, isn't it ?" Cresto : "So it seems, we hope it will always be like that"
He was apparently pumped up with drugs and pushed to race despite being sick like a dog. In a car without a proper protection cage (a Group B common feature due to a lax regulation)
19:50 have we here any friendly French or Italian speaking people? It would be nice to know what Ragnotti and Chatriot are talking about and what Ragnotti says in the interview. Also Cesare Fiorio's interview at 20:32 would be nice to know. Please somebody.
They ask him what’s his opinion on the crash. He says « that kind of corners (tightens in the end) is like a trap. Maybe toivonen didnt hear the codriver notes or maybe he entered the corner too fast. It was a « normal »crash (in this type of corner) that ended badly because of the fire ». Fiorio basically says that its not the fault of the road, nor the cars or the drivers, but when you combine the 3 together, tragedy happens, and as a manufacturer its time to stop because its not safe anymore.
La belle époque où le tour de Corse faisait le tour de la Corse, l'époque arrogante ou on pensait maîtriser toute la technologie, on fonçait déjà dans le mur tout en accélérant...cette époque où Internet n existait pas accord...malgré tout je continue à penser que c était La belle époque
I remember that.Markku Alen had something problems with Lancia Delta S4 and drove very slow.Markku gave way,but Timo Salonen slipped out.Not really dangerous crash.Bad luck.
1985 A. Bettega [4] Tour de Corse 1986 H. Toivonen [4] Tour de Corse. Number 4 is unlucky in China. Number 4 = Death. This numer is unlucky for Lancia Team. R.I.P. Atillo, Henri and Sergio.
(sorry, i'm repeating my own comment here, but..) Toivinen's and Cretso's deaths will be at Fiorio's conscience FOREVER, because of his greed for result, because team management decided to take off metal protection plates under the floor of Toivonen's Delta S4 for reducing car weight (these plates defencedd fuel tanks). They COULD survive in that fatal crash, if their car complied with the regulations. It wasn't even mistake of the crew: Harry Toivonen (Henri's brother) told few years ago that Lancia team did investigation about that crash and main reason of that flat out into the cliff is all about stucked acceleration pedal into the floor (this problem was already known at tests before), because of overheating kevlar floor from transmission. So they just flipped out from that corner at full speed because of mechanical failure, but was still alive when car hung and stuck at trees. And fuel tanks was punctured by trees and fuel ignited by hot engine and turbocharger, all because of removed metal plates under the floor. We lost pure genius at the wheel (and very kind person), his teammate and face of the motorsport was changed forever because of headquarter's greed. As always happening in the history..
The car's trans axle was located far away - at the very tail of the car - from the gas pedal, and Lancia's mechanics - who were the best in the world - would have easily solved a problem as simple as the one you describe.
The translation on 18:30-40 is totally wrong. Speaker translates "... je commence à me dire qu'avec cet avance je peux gagner" while Toivonen says "you can't think that i'm winning the rally. It's still a long way to go".
@@g6rcteam81 Commentator : "Lots of people at the Castiola bridge. The storm has surprised the spectators as they were standing, waiting for Toivonen's Lancia to pass. The wait is too long, in their car the rallye staff froze while listening to radio communications. People gather around, try to listen. A car has left the road, it's burning. Nobody wants to believe it, it's Toivonen's and Cresto's car."
Of course it's not. Where people gather in Castirla is over 2 km from the crash site. Is seems it was a very localised thunderstorm, typical in summer in the mountains, because where the tragedy happened it was not raining. The sound might be weather, wind in the mic, it's poor recording anyway.
Le groupe B un peu comme le Groupe C ou la tentative du Groupe S en 1987 était du délire absolu, à l'heure actuelle ça passerai, mais pas en 1986. Après ça reste les plus belles années en F1 et en rallye et puis les groupe B auront eu de belles secondes vie au Dakar et rallye-cross
Is it possible he just hit that corner to fast sliding the rear of the car off the road spinning and dropping almost backwards . The skid marks that were on the road were very light and seem to show a rear wheel slide 2 far outside the turn sideways with power on slide.
On voit bien qu'ils tirent la voiture par l'arrière et que l'impact dans l'arbre s'est fait du coté de Toivonen, il n'est pas sorti dans un simple sous virage comme a l'air de le dire J. Ragnotti.
Apparently they had a mechanical, the gas pedal got stuck on the car's floor and sadly Toivonen lost control. They would've survived if not for the fire.
@@livingbeing1113 Lancia's mechanics were absolutely the best. Don't you think that they could have solved that problem (if it existed) by simply installing a metal pedal stop?
Michele Mouton and Bruno Saby each said that that corner was the most dangerous one on the entire stage - a high speed, blind, decreasing radius curve. They each had underlined it and marked it with exclamation points in their notes. Henri had been Ill during the practice period and he and Cresto had only managed to do one recce run. Henri had spent most of his career in Britain and northern Europe and in the ERC. He was relatively unfamiliar with Corsican stages compared to the French and Italian tarmac specialists who usually dominated there.
ils ont quand même bien fait d'arreter le groupe B et le groupe S. Il y a un moment ou il faut savoir dire stop. Sinon c'est a chaque rallie qu'il y aurait eu un mort. Et Michèle peut bien parler, mais les groupes A en fin de compte on démontré qu'il y avait pas besoin de 600 chevaux suralimentés pour faire des courses intenses et spectaculaires.
![Tour de Corse - Rallye de France 1987 | Group A [Passats de canto] (Telesport)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6nMz5TLRsgs/mqdefault.jpg)
Toivonen - " I never attack, this is a calm rally. Leading by nearly 3 minutes!!! ,lol. Shows that he was in a different league to all the other drivers on Asphalt and in the Delta S4.
non dice invece "always calm in this rally" (non che cambi il senso)?
Quelle époque !
Le problème c est que là puissance des moteur évoluait très vite mais pas le reste de la voiture c est a dire freins amortisseurs boîte de vitesse etc.
A la fin des rallye les pilotes étaient physiquement détruit. Franchement cette période était passionnante car il y avait beaucoup de constructeurs compétitif mais aussi extrêmement dangereuse pour les pilotes et les spectateurs.
Bien sur que oui ! j'ai un buggy radio commandé a moteur thermique 3cm3 / 3cv !!!!énnnnnome et justement meme a l'echelle 1/10 , optimiser le moteur sans toucher aux suspensions / freins c'est débile ! je vois encore mon model réduit s'envoler a 70km/h sur un tout petit nid de poule et pourquoi ? suspensions bien trop souples ...y'a eu de la casse que j'ai pu réparer mais pas mort d'homme ...
Reporter : "Was Lancia waiting on such a rally beginning from Toivonen ?"
Cresto : "No, as he wasn't in his full physical condition"
Reporter : "The sicker he is, the better his time is, isn't it ?"
Cresto : "So it seems, we hope it will always be like that"
Translation isn't 100% accurate, but I just made it so everyone can understand the situation.
Thanks
He was apparently pumped up with drugs and pushed to race despite being sick like a dog. In a car without a proper protection cage (a Group B common feature due to a lax regulation)
Oh, the irony
19:50 have we here any friendly French or Italian speaking people? It would be nice to know what Ragnotti and Chatriot are talking about and what Ragnotti says in the interview. Also Cesare Fiorio's interview at 20:32 would be nice to know. Please somebody.
They ask him what’s his opinion on the crash. He says « that kind of corners (tightens in the end) is like a trap. Maybe toivonen didnt hear the codriver notes or maybe he entered the corner too fast. It was a « normal »crash (in this type of corner) that ended badly because of the fire ». Fiorio basically says that its not the fault of the road, nor the cars or the drivers, but when you combine the 3 together, tragedy happens, and as a manufacturer its time to stop because its not safe anymore.
@@mickaelmorgado20155 he was the problem! That car was irregular !
11:04 - 11:17,hell no! That is not Cesare Fiorio,that is the Martini Racing Team Doctor.
tom lepski yes, Benigno Bartoletti
La belle époque où le tour de Corse faisait le tour de la Corse, l'époque arrogante ou on pensait maîtriser toute la technologie, on fonçait déjà dans le mur tout en accélérant...cette époque où Internet n existait pas accord...malgré tout je continue à penser que c était La belle époque
I didn`t know that Salonen made a pretty dangerous crash before Toivonen.
I remember that.Markku Alen had something problems with Lancia Delta S4 and drove very slow.Markku gave way,but Timo Salonen slipped out.Not really dangerous crash.Bad luck.
@@simolamsa8716 Alen had compressor and turbo problems if I recall.
I was surprised by this too, Salonen always was so calm, humor person and enthusiastic on a road, he took this happened very easy, as always he did
Dock Senna some points for good measure too Jean Marie
Nah, he should've DQd Senna for that criminal manouver in 1990.
motorsport heroes merry christmas too all!
1985 A. Bettega [4] Tour de Corse
1986 H. Toivonen [4] Tour de Corse.
Number 4 is unlucky in China. Number 4 = Death.
This numer is unlucky for Lancia Team.
R.I.P. Atillo, Henri and Sergio.
Balestre cargándose la esencia de los rallyes de un solo plumazo..
Precisamente el Grupo B es la parte de la historia más alejada de los rallies.
Fiorio looks truly shocked about the accident. Terrible day for the whole sport.
(sorry, i'm repeating my own comment here, but..)
Toivinen's and Cretso's deaths will be at Fiorio's conscience FOREVER, because of his greed for result, because team management decided to take off metal protection plates under the floor of Toivonen's Delta S4 for reducing car weight (these plates defencedd fuel tanks).
They COULD survive in that fatal crash, if their car complied with the regulations.
It wasn't even mistake of the crew: Harry Toivonen (Henri's brother) told few years ago that Lancia team did investigation about that crash and main reason of that flat out into the cliff is all about stucked acceleration pedal into the floor (this problem was already known at tests before), because of overheating kevlar floor from transmission.
So they just flipped out from that corner at full speed because of mechanical failure, but was still alive when car hung and stuck at trees. And fuel tanks was punctured by trees and fuel ignited by hot engine and turbocharger, all because of removed metal plates under the floor.
We lost pure genius at the wheel (and very kind person), his teammate and face of the motorsport was changed forever because of headquarter's greed.
As always happening in the history..
@@sometimesidreamaboutcheese Yep, that's the unfortunate truth.
@@sometimesidreamaboutcheese very interesting things, thank you
The car's trans axle was located far away - at the very tail of the car - from the gas pedal, and Lancia's mechanics - who were the best in the world - would have easily solved a problem as simple as the one you describe.
Poveracci che brutta fine mannaggia la miseria ancora oggi e un dolore vedere queste immagini
The translation on 18:30-40 is totally wrong. Speaker translates "... je commence à me dire qu'avec cet avance je peux gagner" while Toivonen says "you can't think that i'm winning the rally. It's still a long way to go".
Have English subtitles?
20:48 le début de la fin du groupe B
18:56 that’s not *the* sound, is it?
Not sure, the commentator is talking about the storm at the same time.
No it was dry
@@g6rcteam81 Commentator : "Lots of people at the Castiola bridge. The storm has surprised the spectators as they were standing, waiting for Toivonen's Lancia to pass. The wait is too long, in their car the rallye staff froze while listening to radio communications. People gather around, try to listen. A car has left the road, it's burning. Nobody wants to believe it, it's Toivonen's and Cresto's car."
Of course it's not. Where people gather in Castirla is over 2 km from the crash site. Is seems it was a very localised thunderstorm, typical in summer in the mountains, because where the tragedy happened it was not raining. The sound might be weather, wind in the mic, it's poor recording anyway.
Le groupe B un peu comme le Groupe C ou la tentative du Groupe S en 1987 était du délire absolu, à l'heure actuelle ça passerai, mais pas en 1986. Après ça reste les plus belles années en F1 et en rallye et puis les groupe B auront eu de belles secondes vie au Dakar et rallye-cross
A l'heure actuelle cela ne passerait pas.
il volto di Markku Alen al Min. 19:32 dice tutto di questa tragedia
2:58 justement ...l'histoire raconte le reste !
Missiles sur route
Is it possible he just hit that corner to fast sliding the rear of the car off the road spinning and dropping almost backwards . The skid marks that were on the road were very light and seem to show a rear wheel slide 2 far outside the turn sideways with power on slide.
On voit bien qu'ils tirent la voiture par l'arrière et que l'impact dans l'arbre s'est fait du coté de Toivonen, il n'est pas sorti dans un simple sous virage comme a l'air de le dire J. Ragnotti.
Apparently they had a mechanical, the gas pedal got stuck on the car's floor and sadly Toivonen lost control.
They would've survived if not for the fire.
@@livingbeing1113 Lancia's mechanics were absolutely the best. Don't you think that they could have solved that problem (if it existed) by simply installing a metal pedal stop?
Michele Mouton and Bruno Saby each said that that corner was the most dangerous one on the entire stage - a high speed, blind, decreasing radius curve. They each had underlined it and marked it with exclamation points in their notes. Henri had been Ill during the practice period and he and Cresto had only managed to do one recce run. Henri had spent most of his career in Britain and northern Europe and in the ERC. He was relatively unfamiliar with Corsican stages compared to the French and Italian tarmac specialists who usually dominated there.
@@peggygeren4169 I don't know, maybe. You should ask them. It was never clear what happened, but what they told Harri may be most plausible cause.
Michelle Mouton demande le docteur pourquoi ?
Trop forte chaleur dans l'habitacle sans doute dont beaucoup de pilotes se sont plaints
ils ont quand même bien fait d'arreter le groupe B et le groupe S. Il y a un moment ou il faut savoir dire stop. Sinon c'est a chaque rallie qu'il y aurait eu un mort. Et Michèle peut bien parler, mais les groupes A en fin de compte on démontré qu'il y avait pas besoin de 600 chevaux suralimentés pour faire des courses intenses et spectaculaires.