Why Sonic Generations is Peak 3D Sonic | 3D Boost Retrospective
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- I love Sonic Generations. What a game.
Support me on Patreon: / lowart
Watch livestreams on Twitch: / thelowart
Follow me on Twitter: / thelowestart
Contact me: lowart.contact@gmail.com
All background music is from the Sonic Generations OST.
I would like Sonic Generations more if it wasn't so short. My only real gameplay issue is that the last set of 2D levels (after the Sonic Heroes level) feels like they forgot how to properly make 2D levels, where the ones before they had a prior draft on how to make them
Okay, now that I've finished the video, I'm glad to see you share a similar thought on the later 2D levels at least. Honestly didn't expect you to as many I talk to just say it's perfect and that I'm just not a fan of 2D levels or something
Well yes, people were ready to throw money for a dlc pack no encouragement needed but Sega never tried. It's probably still the most modded 3d sonic game. They didn't bite though, probably for the same irrational logic that stopped us from getting Mania 2.
@@noobartist6009 we can still get a Mania 2 it’s only been like what 5 years max? They were working on other projects too so it’s not like they can’t give us a mania 2 later on.
@@adrielcruz2736 I think Sega is still embarrassed from team mania wiping the floor with forces' team...🤭
@@adrielcruz2736 as far as I'm aware Sega of America were the only ones pushing for Manias development. The Japan branch never cared too much about it.
I have been playing Generations since release, I had no idea you could jump on to the helicopter at the beginning of Speed Highway. That's mad.
Why Planet Wisp Act 2 Fails:
The thing is they tried to replicate Sonic Colors’ Structure of Majority 2D with 3D sections. The problem is that in Sonic Colors the Levels were relatively short so you didn’t get bored and annoyed of the constant 2D, that and the 3D bits working as a sort of Cool off period. Generations had Longer levels so making the first minute of the Modern Stage 3D and the other 4 minutes 2D was always bound to annoy the player, especially after they’ve been playing majority 3D Modern stages for the Past few hours. Another factor is Colors more often than Not had a Straight forward path you could take to progress through the level with the wisps Supplementing that path or being used as a tool to create other paths for Exploration. Sonic Generations Forces you to use the wisps to progress and even worse they make you use Rocket, a Wisp that stops you dead in your tracks. I could make a Whole video on why the Planet wisp Stages in Sonic Generations don’t work.
👌💯
For real. I played this game RELIGIOUSLY when I was young. Planet wisp was my least played stage. It's more annoying than fun
NGL I enjoyed that stage. Not really a good ending stage but it's the best 3D section in generations imo. The 2D is fun to Speedrun and nothing more. Colors overall was hella boring in 2D, and Gens basically copied that
My favorite stage in the game crazy enough
Idk over time planet wisp became my favorite stage cuz you can pretty much air boost through a lot of stuff. Also maybe they wanted to make design the stage around the fact that in colors the bugger stage was slip in 3
15:00 I got to disagree there. After Generations came out, the common consensus on fan sites was that the next logical step was to take the Modern Stages and make an entirely new game that doesn't reuse locations and perhaps even some entirely 3D stages. Unfortunately, they never followed up on this and I feel that the boost gameplay never got to reach its full potential.
this. so much potential lost. its just been rehashes of green hill and chemical plant.
What the heck do aesthetics have to do with level design?
He was obviously joking
Cool I’m not even a sonic fan or much of a gamer but this insight into game design and the depth behind what makes effective levels and the weaknesses of some the designs is exactly what I find interesting about games.
Sonic Generations is still one of my favorite Sonic games, even after the recent Sonic Frontiers.
Though Unleashed has my favorite boost stages, Gens is still pretty dang great, I love this game, too bad they're the only two good boost games, I really dislike the other two
Man, this made me want to replay generations, it's been a long time 😁
I personally like Unleashed for the best boost stages to date because of the closer more immersive camera, wider areas, less 2d segments, and "WOOOO!"
Eh, gotta say I prefer Unleashed’s levels & gameplay over Generations. There’s less 2D. It’s legitimately faster gameplay & has more challenge that rewards skill where I feel Gens is too easy. Plus level environments themselves are just so much better.
Facts. And Sonic feels less heavier to control in Unleashed than in Generations. And Camera control. You can make turns easier not boosting, and there's more wide 3d areas where in Generations it all felt short and sprinkled on top of more 2D
@@ilay_ux no
I love Unleashed but I think my biggest issue is the drifting wasn't good in that game. It was the one thing Colors fixed, despite it not being used much at all in that game.
Unleashed levels are too padded out and empty for me generations has more dense, interesting level gimmicks and set pieces
I think my only problem with modern Sonic in this game is the fact that he switched between 3D and 2D segments so much when there is an entire other side of the game which is strictly 2D. It's weird for modern Sonic to have this 3D+2D fusion in gameplay when the other playable character is only 2D. Why not have a duality of the 2 where modern Sonic has more focus on 3D gameplay and classic Sonic is more focused on 2D gameplay? Or why not have classic Sonic get small amounts of modern Sonic implemented?
classic sonic does have 3d segments in this game. what comes to mind is some cinematic moments, the chompers in green hill (you can see them in the background before they go over the bridge), some rotating platforms in sky sanctuary and a portion of crisis city. those are definitely fewer than the 2d segments in modern sonic, so it is unbalanced, but thats not necessary a bad thing. the 3d gameplay transitions well into 2d (which is harder to do from 2d to 3d), and it really doesnt overstay its welcome (except for the colors level)
@@ihaveyourlocation4003Those are 3D ELEMENTS, not 3D Gameplay
I wish... they kept this up
I like Generations, I think it’s the second best boost game, right after Unleashed for me. Note that I said BOOST game, because I very much prefer the Adventure style games over the boost games and seeing the exploration aspect of Adventure 1 and even 06 kind of return in Frontiers but ramped up to 100 was really cool and I can’t wait to see what they do next. I just like the more explorative and less linear style of Adventure 1, Shadow The Hedgehog, and Sonic 06 over the Boost game’s style of levels, and P-06 by ChaosX is basically my idea of the ideal Sonic game.
Unleashed did it better
Way better
🧢
In your dreams! Unleashed's bad controls make it inferior to Gens.
@@JoseGregorioValeroVillarroel this is genuine cope unleashed is fun it’s literally just a memory game
@@kingthougThat's true if you like to control a completly slippery Sonic with a terribly programmed Drift, slippery platforming that causes a lot of BS deaths and horrible button mapping that will make you fail a Homing Attack.
I hope you know what I'm trying to say.
finally, someone who thinks gens is better than unleashed
that's not an unpopular opinion bro...
Unleashed isn't just the day stages. it has always gotten points taken off because of the werehog. ofc generations would be the "better" game to the general audience
Now that you've covered all of the boost games (I say while knowing the horrors to come), I'm curious to see what you think of Frontiers' cyberspace stages. The controls are in some ways a massive downgrade and the level design reuse is disappointing, but it is pretty cool seeing SA2 stages translated into a new formula. The controls enable for some creative movement not possible in the original game--like in the Dragon Road x Sky Sanctuary stage--and the brand new levels like 4-2 are awesome and similar to Unleashed/Gens in quality.
where did this designers go? like seriously the fact that 10 years later and boost levels now are worst than ever before is just baffling, ok not the worst but the stages in frontiers are defiantly mediocre, couple that with the awful controls and you have the most frustrating boost levels I ever played, its sad to see them take so many steps back like this
They left Sonic Team and Sega to work at Nintendo and help make Super Mario Odyssey.
I think the 2D sections in Sonic Generations do overstay their welcome most of the time. There were numerous times when I came back to this game for the 3D platforming and got that feeling of half-sick-half-bored whenever a 2D section showed up after Sky Sanctuary. As good as they might be, I always felt like 2D sections should be tolerated in those games, not fully enjoyed. You go from such freedom of movement to such a tight space and you have to linger there for a good while if 2D platforming isn't your thing, so it's a terrible feeling sometimes, even if this is one of my favorite games;
The main problem with modern sonic level design in generations is that the level straight up pushes you into the fastest route possible most of the time. whereas Unleashed level design constantly tries to drag you down. you can easily miss faster routes if you're not precise enough, much like the classic games. Generations overused 2d sections to cover up the fact that they couldn't replicate unleashed level design.
Frontiers is so good that made me forget Gens :(. I'll play it again when I'm done with Frontiers.
Love Generations. My issues usually are game length and over usage of 2D. Classic Sonic already provides at least 50% 2D sections. The need for more always bothered me a bit.
This usually meant that I wouldn't want to replay Classic Sonic's levels. It's weird to say but it feels draining in a way when my expectation were to play 50% 3D.
This is just a me thing tho. Modern Sonic still needs 2D platforming to spice things up a bit. So, really, the only actual issue is game length.
Yeah, which is why people Should Call this a 2D Sonic Game with 3D Sections LIKE THEY DO WITH COLORS
A reason why all boost games have 2D is because it takes less time to make a 2d section then a 3D section and even if they only prioritized on making 3D sections which would take it longer time and game development, the game would feel much shorter and more repetitive and would have to rely on Long set pieces and long stretches of nothing like sa1 and especially sa2.
So without the 2D sections it's kind of a lose-lose.
I replayed generations recently, and I really like some of the boost levels but some really make me pull out my hair. I’m talking to you crisis city and planet wisp.
Thanks for this.
I haven't played any non-handheld sonic games after heroes, but I think it's great how you can find these hidden paths.
Maybe I'll try some PC ports.
Ye Generations on PC is pretty great. There are some glitches and issues I've run into, but since you can get 60fps and also things like The Unleashed Project mod, it definitely has more benefits than drawbacks
Bro, this video made me realize how bad Sonic Frontiers cyberspace levels are
I have nothin to say except u keep hittin the nail on the head with these gameplay analyses on boost so hard that the tables gonna fall apart. I don't really haave anythin to say except incredible job. I dred ur time wit forces for u tho lol
Great video, but I do think that unwiished actually has it's shamar stage on par if not better than most gens stages thanks to not only a similar level design philosophy but also because unwiished has all these small but engaging gameplay systems like the starting boost, a more significant drift bonus, action chains and ring levels to keep in mind. The boost formula missed out HEAVILY by never bringing these features back even ONCE besides the drift bonus in gens returning, and it shows other ways the boost formula can have engagement in it's design besides spectacle and the sense of speed, these probably being it's 2 biggest hooks for people. Also the camera in unwiished I actually found better than generations, some of green hill's 2d sections usually speed by too fast while boosting to see unless you already know, whilst unwiished had camera issues in about as many fingers on one hand I found.
Generations' 3D design is good, I'll agree with that... the issue for me is that the game has so little of that 3D gameplay.
A 2D game only really tends to hold my attention for a certain length of time and Generations' copious 2D sections push me a little too far past that limit.
It's a really top game when it's on its top game, but much like Colours, that unfortunately doesn't seem to happen as much as it should.
guys hear me out.. sega should make a side game for the boosting formula where fans can make their own stages and publish them for other people to play and it would let you play as multiple characters so the level wouldnt have to be just sonic boosting and they should give sonic a bit more momentum and spining balls mechanics would make the game perfect
Great video! The moment where you ran across the water and skipped half the stage exemplifies exactly what I love about Sonic games, that lateral thinking. There's always a higher path
I think the first zone of most Sonic games is where like half of the development goes, because they usually outshine everything afterwards. Seems like this one is pretty well balanced though.
sonic generations is the best sonic game. sonic mania is also the best sonic but I can't really tell which's best
I like Generations. And Colors. But Unleashed did it all better
No game has come close in 11 years now. Its sad to see.
Facts. Its only flaw is it has a few levels. That said Unleashed was short too, but it should have had way least 30 levels and 12 bonus stages.
I think peak 3D Sonic is Project Unleashed. Unleashed level design with Generations physics. Perfect for veteran Sonic players.
Fun fact: In some point of development, Dreamcast/Adventure Sonic was planned to be added to the game. But they couldn't get the VA, so they scrapped it.
I personally think if it was added to the game we could've had a transition between the level style. Classic was full 2D, Dreamcast/Adventure was full 3D, Modern was both.
I had no idea there was a hidden 1-up in Sky Sanctuary, and I've been playing this game for 11 years
I wis Sonic could be consistently this good.
Watching this video just made me want to play thorigh all the level combinations in this game. Unfortunately I don't have access to this game atm, but when I get it back I will totally do so
lmao legitimately looking forward to the Sonic Forces vid
7:28 if you jump on the left skylight, you can climb up to a rocket exclusive path which you can also get by re homing attacking the rocket
crazy how unleashed negs
i Never Understood Why Sonic Team Never Decided To Make A Boost Game After Generations With Original Levels And A Fixed Rank System, i Mean They Had The Boost Formula Basically Perfected And Had Every Right To Do So But Instead They Wasted Their Potential
I wish this game was beefier. Only 9 stages with two different styles, the blandest hub of any Sonic game and it was over so quickly. While 8 out of the 9 modern stages could be fun, by the end I was sick of how much 2D gameplay there was all together. Plus, why speed highway and then city escape when you could've mixed it up more by using emerald coast? Then Heroes could use Grand Metropolis or something.
I think sonic unleashed was peak 3d sonic, generations kind of stayed around that peak, just slightly worse than unleashed in my opinion (if we only count the gameplay of the day stages and modern sonic alike)
There are other reasons i prefer unleashed but i even prefer just the boost gameplay
I wanna throw in my 2 cents in terms of which games had the best 3D design imo
1. Sonic Generations
2. Sonic Adventure 2-Biased answer. But I do love the 3D level design here. I love the level of control and freedom.
3. Sonic Unleashed-Locations are gorgeous, good platforming and combat, a whole lot of speed, and the music always captures the right emotions. It’s tons of fun and you feel like you’re living up to being the blue blur. The levels are also the perfect length.
4. Sonic Colors-Fast and exciting, but unvaried. It makes you feel fast, and had some interesting puzzles and platforming.
5. Sonic Adventure-I love it’s blazing speeds, and it’s stages never had a dull moment. A lot of good stuff crammed in a small and simple package.
6. Sonic Heroes-The enemies, set pieces, and mechanics are fun and intuitive imo. It has a super charming aesthetic, but it’s held back by a clumsy sense of direction and instant death pits.
I can tell yea it ain't peak 3D because more than half the game is 2D, but it is definitely a Glorified Game Engine for Modders to play with that's for sure
I think that its probably the best sonic game.
Its that great imo
This is my second favorite Sonic game, easily the perfection of the boost.
"peak 3D Sonic"
has less than 15 minutes of 3D sections
I heavily disagree lol. I personally think Gens is overrated as hell
what did u think of classic sonic gameplay
Will you also cover the handheld boost games? (Rush 1 & 2, Colours DS and Generations 3DS) Can't wait for the Forces video! 😆
Unfortunately no - just focusing on the 3D ones. I also honestly doubt I'll ever cover the 2D boost entries, as I haven't played any of them and these Sonic videos don't perform that well for me haha
In between this and Cyberspace in Frontiers, I really want to experience this game again
You messed a short cut in speed high way
8:22 this jump doesn’t look all that clearly denoted
And yet the story, characterization and ranking system are complete ass
It's still fun
Well the story in this game doesn’t really matter if you get down to it , it’s not like you get a cutscene after Alaina every stage (aka: Lost world and Colors )
Generations story is non existent, which was good because Colors, Lost World, and especially Forces didn't have good writing.
@@raydaks6383 to be quite honest I’d take shitty gameplay with a great story and characterization with a great visual look to the game any day, especially when it comes to Sonic. That’s why I enjoy games like Sonic and the Black Knight which also happens to be my favorite Sonic game
Sonic Generations perfected Sonic
This is peak but its still too flawed...
Finally somebody gets it.
Meow
Except for the last act 😅
Only gripes with this game is how Planet Wisp turned into too much 2D in Act 2, there were too many city levels, and Classic Sonic's treatment was bad in my opinion ( his model, no talking, only classic tails as a pal )
What's wrong with Classic Sonic's model?
What's wrong with Classic Sonic's model?
I cant agree more my man
I feel like Sonic Generations doesn't get enough credit for it's quality
Sonic Generations is the Generation 5 of Pokémon of the Sonic 3D games to me. I enjoyed it so much, and I had so many expectations for the future of the series, only to be consistently disappointed over and over again. I haven't played Frontier yet, and I hope it finally breaks the cycle of unfulfilling 3D Sonic games.
Pokémon, sadly, remains mediocre as of Generation IX.
there is another
Watching your gameplay review videos brings me right back to when I was a kid watching the early beginnings of G4tv. The nostalgia is insane
Too bad the next games that would follow by Sonic Team were fundamentally flawed, also yes Planet Wisp slander.
A whole video could be made just on the music from 3D vs 2D sonic and how they compliment the original soundtrack
11:10 Oooooh! So that´s how you get to that rainbow ring! That´s so good
planet wisp always felt a little bit underwhelming as a final stage in generations, if only the game was longer with DLC support
I play generations up to this day, and I don't know how many year have passed since I played planet wisp.
15:19 fin.
Have you played/would you review Sonic Riders?
9:17 in addition to the fact that the original is so bad any level of quality is a massive step up
did he already explain why he's not covering sonic and the black knight?
Did they do a poll to see which zones to bring back?
Modern planet wisp physically makes me sick lmao
I really am the only person whose favorite stage is planet wisp act 2
Could you review the stories
1:40 that’s still 2D. 2.5D is when you can towards the foreground and the background but in a side scrolling stage. I think at least….
2.5D and 2D are the same thing. What you said is correct, that’s still 2D. However, 2.5D is 2D with 3D characters and background
Maximum over good
The last Sonic Game of time
The fact that they didn’t make a new sonic game with new levels with these controls and level design is beyond disappointing because sonic forces spits in gernations design face
Dude Gens controls are garbage Sonic feels so weird to play as
3:55 if you don’t duck what happens? Do you lose rings or get sent to a lower path or what?
There's a wall you need to slide under. If you don't crouch, you come to a halt.
I played generations like 5 times, back when it was new and I hyped it so much, eventually I came back to replay it over the years... until I grew up (I was a pubert back there). I began to find it boring and dull. my brother wants me to play and he downloads it and installs it even when i say "no" and he "forces" me to play it... for some reason, he loves it, even tho he never played it
until now, he finally started playing it. And I watch him and.... damm, how linear and short the levels are! the levels have like, this one-path, hold-boost and that's all. not to mention the joke of the ranking system, he dies and dies and STILL gets S rank, what the fuck
5 years ago I played Unleashed for the first time, damm I loved it. I'm currently replaying it for the 3rd time, and man, I still love it AND I'M AN ADULT
Generations just doesn't compare to Unleashed. the only thing Generations has over Unleashed are the controls, and probably skills, that's all - everything else, Unleashed wins. lenght, challenge, music, story, replayability, inmersion, etc. hell, even unleashed rooftop run is superior than generations''. you can actually explore the wider ares in unleashed, plus it all has more life, "WOOOOS!" and identity, generations spams so many city or islands levels i don't even
so no, stop this "GENERATIONS IS THE BEST BOOST GAME" thing because that simply is wrong and bulshit. just *no*
I disagree, I felt very restricted in Unleashed, Sonic could barely move left and right. The controls were super tight and drift sucked. There were barely any day time stages, and the werehog and medal collecting was mid. Voice acting is ok best, not something too special. If you think Generation is boost to win go and play forces.
Don’t diss rooftop run like that man, Generations perfected that stags
"so no, stop this "in my opnion generations is good" beacuse i disagree"
@@saikis-h9b Unleashed fanboys are getting too crazy, like you.
@@thefastcommenter7774 ? im defending sonic generations here
More of an adventure guy myself. I got burnt out of the series as a kid when the gameplay went from controlling an actual character to driving a racecar down glorified hallways :/
Speed stages did more of the same with way more set pieces, long hallways and glitchy automaton.
If were being honest, Sonic generations has way more complex, open and grand levels then sa2 could even dream of. And the adventure games as a whole were more focused on platforming, stage gimmicks, or both. And racking up score and keeping rings until the end which is really dumb imo(since maintaining your speed like in unleashed, unwiished and generations is way more focused and fun then.....)
Collecting rings through a 15 minute pinball level to go back and get a chaos emerald. 😒
Waiting on a giant dick while you go through 3d labyrinth zone right after you go through another sa1 hallway that controls poorly and methodically.
And pyramid cave/final chase are equally as bad due to bad gimmicks and automated loops that would be over in a millisecond if sonic had the boost.
So yeah i think its safe to say you came to the wrong game to bash the levels for being, "to linear" or having "to many hallways".
@@tonytiger5111 "If were being honest, Sonic generations has way more complex, open and grand levels then sa2 could even dream of." No way, lmao. It isn't even close. How is holding down the boost button and controlling a racecar more "complex". Unlike generations, you can use the terrain and slope physics to your advantage in both adventure games. You can actually turn in the adventure games as well. In fact, Sonic Frontiers has superior gameplay to all boost games simply because we can actually control Sonic again and he doesn't feel awkward to handle in 3D(plus frontiers actually has more momentum as well)
Sonic Generations may have had an open-level design at times, but its poor stiff controls make it awkward to the platform and explore with Sonic in 3D(which is why it often uses 2D in later stages). That's why Sonic Unleashed has better boost gameplay, because it does what the boost gameplay is meant to do, and that is go fast in pretty lienar level design while your reflexes get tested, it isn't meant for bigger levels like generations tried to dish out. Even with unleashed's gameplay being the best boost, the adventure games, heroes, shadow the hedgehog, and frontiers are superior 3D Sonic games.
@welp65 no they aren't lmao, all Sonic Adventure esque games(heroes and shadow included) have much better controls than the boost games. If anything, Shadow's movement is actually said to be the opposite..a bit slippery, which I do agree but still better than car racing controls.
@welp65 Other than a few secrets in sa1, you never utilize slopes to your advantage in the adventure games." My goodness, biggest cap I've seen. Watch any speedrun of both games(without glitches), and your point falls flat.
The adventure games tighter turning also makes them nearly impossible to control at high speeds." This point only applies to Sonic Adventure 1, not SA2(which is why I say it has the best controlling Sonic)
The boost games aren't for sonic period. What do you think sonic started out as first? Sonic is a high speed platformer. It's about using slope physics to your advantage, and bot adventure games did this fine. It was never about holding down the boost button to plow through things like a stiff truck. I want Sonic to feel agile and free, to feel swift, not a race car. Idc how much you enjoy generations, but Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are closer to what Sonic fundamentally is all about.
@welp65 Most years don't matter because more Sonic games have come out with a focus on slope physics, control and momentum rather than boost(Genesis games, Adventure games, Advance games, 06, Shadow, Heroes) and it is where Sonic started off. You gotta keep in mind, there's quite a huge gap between Sonic Generations and Forces lol(went 6 years without a boost title).
Awesome video
Somehow in my recommended it said 55 seconds ago xD
Unleashed boost stages were too speed focused, colors stages were too platform focused, but generations was just right, it had just enough speed and just enough platforming. It was like they found the perfect balance. They should have just took the foundations generations set and made new levels for a new game. The boost levels in forces are terrible by comparison.
Mechanically yes
Design wise debatable
Wait im confuses what do u mean by this?
@@tonytiger5111 nothing
Unwiished>Gens.
Generations is linear and short af, that's not Peak 3D Sonic. 🤦♀️
did you even watch the video
Lmfao hop of that dreamcast dick and actually watch this guy bodie your idle with this games depth and peak level design.
Linear? You're joking?
2:45
Game doesn’t need to be long af to be great, IMO the key to great sonic game is a game that can be short ( it doesnt have to ) but highy replayable , also mods stages exist
I had no idea how much of these levels you can actually get too I kind of wish the 3d levels made it a little clearer how to get these other paths cause a lot of this looked like random jumps and air boosting to a rail or platform you don't see until you've lost your window to go that way
2d in the 3d aectipns is do unnecessary and momentum killing. You lose all your speed cap because you would overshoot the tiny forward sliver you can see in 2d perspective, for no reason. The 2d sections never open up into 3d bits, only the other way around. Why even bother putting 3d sonic in the game at all if you’re going to be like “2d is 2d but half of the 3d is also going to be 2d late, just with sloppier control”