I am usually a Hop head, I decided I wanted to branch out and try my hand at something different, so it lead me to this recipe. Very very happy with the results, very thrist quenching and easy to drink. Can't wait for my Dad to try this one, as he doesn't like the "Fruity" Beers 🤣
Definitely a good recipe. I'm a big fan of the melanoiden malt for a little flavor and color. May have to brew this one up. I have 3 sachets of diamond in the fridge! 👍🍻
I brewed this. I just used the recipe and didn’t test my ph and I think there was too much acid malt for me but otherwise I can confirm it is delicious and refreshing
Hey David, Just brewed a 10 Gal. batch of my version of a Helles. a bit different than yours, but I think with a similar goal. We'll see how I did in several weeks. 2 different pilsner malts-86.4%, 10.2% vienna, 2.5% munich, 1% melanoidin/honey malt. Mashed @ 154/167F, 90 min boil to express some mailard products I hope, 18 IBU composed of Helga for bittering, mix of sterling and spalter for flavor and aroma. Diamond lager pressure fermenting at 12 psi. Lagering to follow. Hope you and your wife have a great holiday season. Cheers!
@@DavidHeathHomebrew And it is in fact a wonderful beer. I think I prefer 34/70 but the diamond wasn't a bad choice. I did ferment it at 28 psi because in my hombrew "kegmenter" I could and wanted to see the effects of higher pressure, and the math worked out that when chilled it would be at roughly serving pressure. All in all a success.
I will be brewing this on Saturday using Saflager W-34/70 and fermenting under pressure, looking forward to tweaking my favourite beer style based on your recipe. This one I’ll do just like you have with the equivalent ingredients I’ve gotten my hands on here in Sweden. Cheers and thanks for sharing your tried and tested recipes, they are very good! 🍻😀👍
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Done brewing this one and am fermenting it under pressure in a 23L Cornelius keg at 12psi and at 25C. My OG came out a bit high, 1054, a bit of a slow sparge but I let it take its time. I tasted the OG sample and boy I think this just may become my new favourite! I’m so looking forward to the results! 🍻😀👍
Hey David. I brewed this beer and it is nice, but i didn’t get a clean profile. I followed the fermentation steps and measured everything. could it just be that i pulled my beer to soon from the yeast although it was fermented out? Oh and my main question is did you lager for 21 days on the yeast or transfered it in a keg to lager? Thanks in advance.
Yes, sure it will turn out drinkable. Also I made a new batch of Helles with the correct yeast. So I will be able to compare them both against eachother 🍺🍺
Oh man David, you're a godsend! I made a Helles a while ago and it turned out really, really good, but not exceptional. It was probably one of the best beers I've made to date, but it lacked "something". I wasn't sure of the Pils malt I used so I did do a 90 minute boil, also used a lot of the same malts (although not Vienna, I actually used a combination of CaraMunich I and II for colour and flavour), but used a different hop (Perle), which I probably won't use again. I'll definitely give your method a shot, and definitely stick to a 30 minute boil. Thanks for this!
I haven't thought about that 30 minute boiling to keep the malt flavors, I will try that next time. I have a recipe prepared with 50% Munich light (Viking), 30% Pilsner Zero (Viking) and 20% Barke Vienna malt (Weyermann). I hope to use some saved WLP820 for that, if it's still good.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Are you generally boiling only 30min for a ordinary pilsners as well? I hear you mention 30min boil in the video. The old rule that you need to boil pilsner malt for 90min to boil off DMS, is that a thing of the past? I have never tried a 30min boil, but if there is no difference then I would give it a try.
Yes, that is correct. I cover old vs modern brewing in the next episode of Brewing bad. This points out all the reasons behind various practices and why some of these are not relevant today, despite the fact that things like the 90 minute boil are being held onto by some still.
Brewed a Helles yesterday, interesting to know about the 30 minute boil, most recipes calling for a 90 min boil due to DMS issues. But saying that I hit the numbers bang on 1.052 OG and hopefully a FG of 1.009 giving me a 5.6% abv.
With pilsner malt, there used to be a good chance to get DMS however most grains we get now are so heavily modified that its very unlikely to get DMS, that you could even get away from not boiling anything. Just get up to 190For about 88C for pasteurization and start your hop schedule.
I also boiled for 90 min for a long time. After watching some Videos from David Heath I changed all my recipies to 60 min and never had any issues (I mostly use Weyermann Malts). It saves time and Energy and I ll surely try a 30 min boil the next time.
Hi David. Great recipe, and i have one question. Of the total amount of water, do you only use a few % spargewater on this recipe? in BF i got 26.16L mashwater and only 1.46L spargewater. Is that correct? Btw, i love your videos.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Indeed I will however a bit behind in my brew schedule But I can tell you about the Kölsch Beer. Just loved it. A good malt taste and very light fruit taste, really drinkable however not as clear as yours although at cold crash 2 -3 week. Not quite sure what I did wrong. Thanks David👍
Great to hear Allan. Yes the Kolsch is a close one to my heart. To get it that clear I used super moss in the boil and cold crashed it before transferring to a keg where it was held at 5C.
Hi David :) Im going to brew this. I will ferment it under pressure as you suggest. Should i keep 25C during the whole fermentation, or ramp it towards the last part? Thank you!
Hello David. Would you be able to specify the pressure fermentation profile a bit more? You mentioned fermenting at 77 degrees at 12 psi but for how long? Do you still ramp up the temperature after 50% attenuation? You mentioned that this beer was lagered for 4 weeks before being transferred into a corny keg. Does that mean it remained in the primary under pressure for that period of time? Thank you for all of the great content!
A big fan, thak you David for yet another awesome video! I had a question - instead of a secondary fermenter, can I keg directly after the primary fermentation and then let it lager for 21 days in the keg and then I plug in CO2. Your advice is much appreciated. Thank you.
"Keep in mind this isn't an American lager and therefore should be lagered at a higher temp" (in this case 5C). This is is the first time I've heard this! I've got an Oktoberfest/Märzen that's just about ready to be lagered. Does this mean I should be aiming for a 5C lager temp too? This will be my first lager attempt and everything I've read so far is along the lines of, "as close to 0C as possible".
Brilliant video, thanks. I'm dipping my toes into all grain for the first time with this recipe ( after a load of Helles extract fails). I plan on doing this in a biab setup. Apart from making appropriate changes in Brewfather, for my setup, any other advice/changes/tips for a biab setup? Thanks.
Thanks Simon great to hear. I think all I can add is to make sure your grain crush is fine and during the mash I suggest stirring the grain for a couple of minutes every 20 minutes. By doing this you will ensure great efficiency despite having no recirculation.
Hey David, ever fancied doing a Rice Lager? I haven’t tried one myself but hear they come out really smooth, I think it might make a nice addition to your channel for a bit of variety and should create a bit of extra interest, what do you think? Keep up the great work.
Thanks Eamonn. I agree that there are many great German noble hops. However I simply prefer Saaz and these fit well. Also they are easily obtainable world wide and thus better to share as part of my recipe.
This looks excellent and I’ll give it a go shortly. One quick question… if I’m bottling rather than using a keg, do you think the bottling should be done after the initial fermentation? I.e. before or after the 3 week ‘storage’ phase?
Another one I am adding to my list to try David. Thanks for all the recipes David. I have your pineapple mango raw IPA on tap right now and it is a popular one! In terms of lagering, is there any concern of finishing the fermentation schedule and then transferring to a corny keg and lagering in this way? With my setup this is much easier and frees up my fermentation chamber for the next brew.
Cheers Dave. Great to hear that you are enjoying the Pineapple and Mango raw :) You can lager in the keg if this suits you. I would do a cold crash first in the FV if you can.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew After the cold crash and transfer to the corny for lagering, is a spunding valve required, or can you lager in the corny keg without one? Also assume that I should purge the Keg with co2 as well before starting the lauger as well.
Great video as usual but I’ve got a question. Can you taste a difference between pressure fermentation and traditional fermentation for lagers? Thanks in advance
David could you give me a few pointers. Did this beer twice. First time it reeked of acetaldehyde but cleared up lovely (safale yeast), same thing this time but hasn't cleared up (diamond). Both done under pressure. I did give the yeast longer the first time ... How do I avoid next time 🤦 thanks
Hi David, excellent video as always. One question: what do you think about the side pull czech faucet? Do you think that they make a difference when pouring lagers in general and this style in particular? Thanks!
Hi David. I'm planning on making this (my favourite recipe so far) and I was wondering if I could use Golden Promise rather than Pilsner or would it cause a problem? Thanks in advance :)
Your video came at a perfect time as I had a 5 gallon keg needing to be filled! Brewed this recipe today. Ended up pitching 2 sachets of 34/70 @ 68F degrees and attached a spunding valve set for 12 PSI, planning on letting the temp free-rise to ambient which has been upper 70s lately. In regards to pressure and the higher temps, should the fermentation vessel be pressurized to 12PSI right at pitch, or just wait for the fermentation to gradually bring the pressure up to target?
Morning David. I have brewed and almost finished this one --- THNAK YOU ----. Its very tasty and seems to be enjoyed by non beer drinkers too. Do you have a good recipe for an Octoberfest / Marzen beer?
Great recipe. I have mine fermenting at 10psi and 10degC at the moment, but realising I couldve gone warmer since pressurised. Any harm in bringing temp up to finish it off?
Hi! Great video, as always. I have just build my own glycol chiller and want to brew my first lager... this will be the one! A question though; you advise to taste the beer every week while lagering to stop the lager process when the taste is to your liking. But; how can you stop the lager process? The beer will sit in a keg at 5 celsius anyway so will it not just lager on until the keg is empty?
Hi, It really depends on how you will store it, some can or bottle too. Also some keg users use a beer dispenser. Either way its good to only start drinking it fully once it has reached the state you enjoy. After this it will not get worse if you continue lagering. Some also increase the temperature when they are finished lagering in a keg. Many options and choices :)
One more, the mash here is the usual 65/75C. In your "Mash steps in beer brewing easy guide" video, you say that a 62/68/75C is your prefered Pilsner mash. Is the 65/75 for convenience or best suited to the Helles?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks. My bad :( I was looking at brewfather recipe in the morning and did not see water profile there. I started to watch video now and immediately realized how my question is irrelevant. sorry about that.
Hi David... Looking for information on how long pressure fermentation is and if there need of some kind of lagering or maturing for this process. Another question that I have is if you use the same amount of yeast for pressure fermentation.
Hi Erick, PF will often shorten fermentation time but yeast varies and so will the time. Lagering is still used if you use lager yeast. Pitching rate is the same. Check out my PF guide:- ua-cam.com/video/W7WSFn6bNoA/v-deo.html
@@DavidHeathHomebrew David, thanks for your prompt response, I really enjoy your videos, this time I follow your recommendation for PF and use W34-70 at 12 psi and 23°C... So, can I ask you a fermentation profile (days) for PF of this beer? And I will like to suggest that if you can add this instructions in the comment section of beer recipe in Brewfather when you recommend 2 or more different methods for fermenting or mashing or an anything that differs from the recipe you share, as this will make more easy to understand.
The problem is time will vary, so allow 14 days and see 🍻 As for the instructions I really want people to watch the video for all those and keep the recipe to one plan for ease. It would be never ending otherwise.
Hi. I want to make a 70 ltr batch of this beer as a BITB but when I multiply up the volumes the mash and sparge water volume is 105 ltrs. this seems a lot for a 70 ltr batch. Can tell me the volumes for a 70 ltr batch? Cheers
Hi Tony, adjusting a recipe is not just simple maths. There is much more to calculating volume and aspects like bitterness via hops. The best and easy way is to use brewing software. I suggest using Brewfather which also has the benefit of having a free version that is fully featured compared to the premium version. Water is also something that will vary for different setups and situations.
Hey David! Ive got a batch fermenting using the regular method. I've reached the end of the initial 9 days and my gravity is still quite high at 1.023... Is this as it should be and itll hit the FG during lager, or should I let it hit 1.008 before lagering? Thanks!
Fantastic, love your videos and lagers in particular. I plan to use Bonsak Fairytale Pils. Would the 30 min boil also apply for this malt? Further, I guess I could swap 34/70 with WLP830?
Hi Håvar. I am not very familiar with this malt. Certainly some farm malts use the old floor malting process and the malt is not as modified as mainstream malt. I would suggest going with the old rules when using this.
Thanks for the review, this is one of my all time favorite beers after serving in Europe for a few years. Question about fermentation, I am fermenting a festbier right now under 10 psi and using Munich lager yeast. Any thoughts? Would you rather use saflager under pressure?
Hi Dave, another great video as always. Please can you explain the fermentation times. Do I ferment for a full 5 days at 10, then change fermenter temperature setpoint to 13 and then 2 days later move to the next setpoint, or do I ferment at 10 for 5 days, adjust the temperature setpoint to 13 but only start the 2 day timer once the beer temperature has reached 13? I have the grainfather conical fermenter so I'm curious about what data to enter into the fermentation profile. Can I leave the beer in the same fermenter for the full lagering period or is it best to rack to a secondary. Is it advisable to rack to keg and then let it lager for the 21 days? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks.
Hi Simon, the later example. Temp times start once temperature is reached. Yes, leave the beer in the FV for fermentation and lagering. You could also transfer to a keg and lager there too.
Hi David, thank you so much for your Videos. I really appriaciate them all! I got a question concerning the hops of this Beer. I couldn't manage to get "Summer" Hops in Germany. All my vendors dind't list them or they are out of stock. My research did not yield any substitution possibilities either. What is your recommendation for an alternative? Thank you so much.
Hi David, great video as always. I understand that you have a lot of experience with using kveik yeast. Have you tried this style or recipe with either Lutra or Voss yeast? Would you recommend it? I do not have temperature control as yet and would really love to try this style.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew This is very interesting. I'm always concerned about clarity because that's always a thing people point out when I give them a beer to try but it makes sense if you clear it too much it will lose taste. Do you think if you left the beer for one more month in lagering, it would get clearer but still with most of the flavor? I would like to try to get the best of both worlds.
Certainly lagering at low temperature will lose flavour as well as clearing the beer much faster. I suggest lagering Euroean lagers at 5C to combat this. If fast clarity is a concern then you can use fining agents. Personally I go natural.
As always a greate Video! A small question regarding the fermentation: do you let the Beer sit in top of the yeast for the 5°C/21 day step or do you recommend removing the yeast by Transferring to another vessle?
I am brewing this recipe and fermenting under pressure at 12psi. Does this mean I can skip the lagering period and move directly to kegging or bottling after I’ve hit FG for 2-3 days?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks very much, David. I'll give it a couple of weeks at 41F in keg once I've transferred it out of my pressure fermenter. Looking forward to trying it!
Hi David. I planned to try this in the coming weeks to check if it would be a good option to brew in larger quantities for my son's wedding in August among some other styles.. I plan to ferment under pressure as my fermentation chamber for temperature control is in use. Can you still clarify the schedule a bit, i think i saw you talking about diacetyl rest below in some comment. So when i ferment under constant 20 something and 12 psi, do i still do some "diacetyl rest" i.e. rise the temperature at some point? When, for how long, what temperature and pressure? Also, for lagering: if i lager in 5 degrees shall i put a gas bottle to maintain the 12 psi when it cooled? Thanks for any further advice!
Hi Petri, I am sure this will be popular as a wedding beer. The great thing about pressure is you can go at higher temps right from the start so there is no need to raise for a D rest. Yes you can lager with the same pressure and this will provide carbonation at the same time. You can decide after this if its too much or too little and make adjustments.
Hi David, I would like to ask you: do you see any benefit from using acidulated malt instead of lactic acid? Also, do you bring down to lagering temp directly or progressively? Thank you very much in advanced, have a great weekend:)
Hi. Noticed that you dont rehydrate the dry yeast. Do you think rehydrating is unnecessary? Also, i prefer fresh yeast (for some reason i seem to have greater success with the beers where i used fresh yeast). What is your suggested fresh yeast for this beer?
Hi John, Yes rehydrating yeast is old advice and in recent times studies have backed this up. The sachets from companies still recommend it but these are to be replaced.
I'm curious; wouldn't the emphasis of a Munich beer be on Munich malt... or at least SOME Munich in the grain bill? Why would it be avoided in this case?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I get that, it’s more a curiosity to me, specifically what would Munich malt bring to the table that wouldn’t fit with this style? My main reason for asking I’ll admit is that Munich is my favorite malt and I like to try to work it into everything.
I love Munich malt too :) Nothing to stop you trying it, its just not commonplace for the style. Sometimes very light munich is used though but on the low side to not change the desired very clean character. Munich will overpower and muddle this.
Hi David! I've always had a hard time choosing dry lager yeast , so perhaps you could give me some advice. I have acces to Fermentis W34-70 , Fermentis S-23, Lallemand Diamond, MJ M84 and MJ M76. For warm summer fermentations I've always used W34 at about 20 degrees ,and S-23 with similar results yet more esters but I've never tried the others. Is it worth switching from Fermentis to Lallemand Diamond or Mangrove Jack? Thanks!
Hi David, I'm going to brew this one next week! I will be using my Fermzilla to pressure ferment at 12 PSI, for how long should I keep this at 25 degrees C? And should I condition it for three weeks also?
Hi Dave I have this one busy fermenting at the moment. Really looking forward to it. This is my first time brewing a lager and I have some questions. 1. It took my about 8 days to reach 50% attenuation at 10 degrees. This is slower than what you describe. Is this going to be a problem? 2. When I start lagering, i will do so in a keg. Can I already start adding co2 to the keg to get a head start on carbonation while lagering at 5 degrees? Thanks for your help
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thank you very much. Just to be certain, when you say Keg Lagering is a great option, you do mean that lagering can happen in the keg while under CO2 pressure to get a head start on carbonating? If so, any recommended ideal pressure I should have it at? Thank you
David, I cannot brew from scratch unfortunately, I can only brew from extract. After living in Germany off and on for 14 years I yearn to be able to make two beers - Herforder pils and Augustiner Edelstoff, I know using extract and a home brew facility I will truly never get there, I’ve brewed some really tasty beers, and I do have temp controlled fridges to get the temps right. My biggest problem is I can’t get the lovely light colour! I have used LME, DME, sugar in all combinations but it’s alway too dark. Am I being duped in to using too much DME or LME by the seller, should I used more dextrose? Any help much appreciated. I’ve just got some commercial Pilsner and Munich LME, I plan to use Hallertau mittlefru and tetnanger hops pellets.
Hi Daz, why not go small batch brew in a bag? Its cheap and you will save money very soon compared to extract. See this:- ua-cam.com/video/4HufFBFhMDU/v-deo.html
Hi David, I enjoyed this so much I'm making another batch today. If i use Lutra do I still need 2 packets or will one be plenty? Also first try at pressure fermenting cheers :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I had a disaster yesterday as I was trying your Vienna lager again as the last one just didn't ferment (my fault) and I knocked my digital clock into the boiling wart 5 minutes to go. After fishing out the melted plastic blob there was no way I was drinking that. Another batch of top quality lawn feed lol
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Hi David, the saga continues...... Sunday 31L in new F40 2 packets of Lutra 12 PSi 22 degrees.1050 Next day (Monday) 1035 last 2 days 1025 I've increased temperature tonight to 24 degrees and if still 1025 in the morning I will add a 3rd packet of Lutra to try and get it going again........
I forgot to say 3/8 BSP Male to. 3/8 NPT Female to enable Grainfather Chiller pipes to fit Brewtools tanks if it is any help to others. I used a Inkbird STC 1000 and a 12v to 240V relay for the heater. :)
I did this brew a couple of weekends ago but used the llalemand diamond yeast. I pressure fermented for a week at 15 psi then did a closed transfer to keg, some of the yeast in suspension was transferred too. Just over a week in the keg i decided to try it but it's got a very funky smell and taste. It's still a bit cloudy, should i leave it to settle longer or have i definitely got a bad batch? I would say the funk smell is close to sweaty feet
David, I'm planning on brewing this beer for an Oktoberfest comp here in Australia. My LHBS isn't familiar with the summer SAAZ hops and when reading the description thought that it didn't suit the style. In saying that, is there an alternate hop you would use that I could get here in AUS???
Summer Saaz are actually Australian grown Saaz. They suit this style perfectly in fact but if you cannot obtain them then Saaz in general will work just fine too. Good luck on the comp 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David. Is the 5C Lahr ting carried out once the beer is bottled (so in effect conditioning) rather than when still in the fermenter? Also, I usually cold crash to 3C before bottling - is this necessary here do you think? Many thanks.
Have decided to try this recipe as my first ever non-ale, and have a question about the fermentation schedule. Does the "one degree C a day"-rule apply here as well, or can i increase faster? I assume i should be careful between 10 and 13, since there is a lot of job left for the yeast, but how about between 13 to 17? Should i spend four days just on the increase? EDIT: And also, how much time do i gain if i were to pressure ferment it instead?
Hi, yes the 1C per day rule is a good one to follow in general throughout. You will save time usually with pressure fermentation but the actual time saved will vary recipe and yeast wise. In some cases the difference is dramatic.
As I see you FG is 1.008. I fermented w-34/70 at 20 C and after 6 days the gravity is 1.012 (now the temperature is 18 C). I was wondering what can cause that. I used the mash schedule that you proposed
I am well set up to ferment cold or to ferment u fee pressure, which fermentation profile tastes best with 34/70? I’ve used the yeast at many temps and pressures with lots of success but havnt found a favorite method. But 60F at 10 psi has seemed like a nice middle ground.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Followed this recipe, fermented 34/70 cold but fast lager method like the recipe. Won BEST IN SHOW! At a county fair with 100 entries.
It's curious how similar this recipe is to your bohemian pilsner when it comes to grain bill and hops. I'm about to brew your version of the bohemian but substituting munich this time with vienna and adding some biscuit and carabody (as you gave the option in the laydown of that recipe). The only difference with this Helles recipe that I can spot is the BU/GU ratio. Though I guess I shouldn't be surprised as these two beers are historically quite similar. Or maybe I'm missing something? Do you suggest doing the lagering process in your fermentation vessel or could I just use gelatin in the fermenter while cold crashing for around 4 days to get it clear, then transfer to a keg and then lager in it for some weeks? EDIT: seems like you've already answered the question and it seems to be ok to use keg for lagering. On a sidenote I've never understood what is the mechanism of cold storage affecting the flavor further on.
Hi, are you referring to this Bohemian Pilsner? ua-cam.com/video/NWx_wPNsTTw/v-deo.html Its similar in ways though not that similar I would say. You can lager in your fermentation vessel though I prefer to transfer off the trub first usually. Lagering has an impact on flavour, its a techincal one to explain though.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew yes that's the one. Well it does have a whirlpool addition also. But how many different ways can you make an European lager anyways :) Thanks for quick response as usual David. I have an allrounder so I can't remove the trub and don't wanna tie the fermenter for too many weeks to lager so I guess I'll do it in the keg. Keep the excellent content coming! 💪🏻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I've tried pressure fermenting lagers with 34/70 and diamond. Usually when the OG is reached if I leave for only 2-3 days of diacetyl rest the whole batch is ruined. The only ones that have came out good where I've left it clean up for 6 days. This is really curious and this has happened like 4 times already when I've thought OK this must be ready and after cold crash when I taste it there is really hard to describe taste that makes it undrikable. It's not bad but the beer does not taste like lager. I usually ferment around 21 degrees C 20-25 psi and this the yeast is usually done within five days. Any explanation as it seems your protocal of 25 degrees C does not require diacetyl rest? EDIT: OK so the problem was sulphur. I ran another sulfure batch through copper tube and then it was ok.
Hi David I've been brewing for about 18 months and I'm yet to try a lager so thought I would give it a go. One question I have, is the lagering period reduced in length when pressure fermented or does it not effect it? thanks
Hi David, one more question about this recipe: You use Summer hops. I have never used it but read that it has some notes of apricot, melon, even peach, passionfruit and citrus. Sound very different from typical Saaz hopped lagers. Is it so or does the summer really substitute Saaz here well?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks alot again David. I would like to try Summer but availability of both Summer and Saaz from my local shops is bad at the moment so i think i have to try with Sterling. Hope it works too..
Hi David, Brewed this on saturday with g40. OG 1.049. Looks great, a bit lighter colour than i expected. Fermentation under pressure according to your video. Strong fermenting and pressure same night. Now on Monday morning no more gas coming out, pressure dropped to 10 psi, sg 1.011 (target 1.008). How long do you suggest i keep it in the warm (24c) before dropping to 5c? Should i attach gas bottle to keep the pressure at 12psi?
Hi David, I brewed this maybe month ago, using Diamond lager at 25c, and 12 psi. After hitting FG, I dropped the temp to 5c for 21 days and then I transferred it to keg. It's been sitting for 2 weeks at 12 psi and I tried it and it's definitely not good. It has some almost sour taste, maybe best word to describe it is cidery. Is there any hope and is that something that will go away or I should just dump it? It's not an infection I'm certain, one thing comes to mind is that I pitched it at 25c and let pressure rise to 25 naturally.
I have been waiting for you to cover this style! Thank you!! What are your thoughts on substituting Chit Malt for the CaraPils? I have used 34/70 at 15psi and 64F (18C) for years. I will have to try at even higher temperatures now. Thank you
Cheers 🍻 Chit malt being almost raw barley will be a little different but does bring similar qaulities as carapils. I tend to avoid it personally but it could be an ok sub.
So I did this beer and its in the fermenter atm. Upon pitching I somehow set the regulator wrong and In the first 12 hours it got up to over 30psi. I reset the pressure at 12psi but would I have done any damage to the yeast in that space of time at 30psi +? Thanks
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Have you done any testing with Diamond vs. 34/70 under pressure? Seeing as 34/70 is very temperature tolerant to begin with, I assume the results should be somewhat different. I did a 34/70 at 23C, 12PSI and compared it to a similar brew where I pitched at 20C and let it free rise to 12PSI. The latter tastes cleaner.
As always.. thumbs up before watching. Never been disappointed. Thanks David!
Many thanks CM. Great to hear :)
Another classic from the world's finest beer youtuber. Keep it up David, you are a legend.
Many thanks Joe, you made me blush a little there!! Much appreciated 🍻
I am usually a Hop head, I decided I wanted to branch out and try my hand at something different, so it lead me to this recipe. Very very happy with the results, very thrist quenching and easy to drink. Can't wait for my Dad to try this one, as he doesn't like the "Fruity" Beers 🤣
Great to hear Adrian. I really like this one too.
Another helpful and inspiring video David. Really can’t thank you enough for what you do for the community. Cheers.
Cheers Phil, much appreciated 🍻
Definitely a good recipe. I'm a big fan of the melanoiden malt for a little flavor and color. May have to brew this one up. I have 3 sachets of diamond in the fridge! 👍🍻
Go for it Brian, this recipe took a long time to get right but I am very happy with it.
Drinking one now put out by a local (VT) brewery (von Trapp). You NAILED it in the description
Cheers Paul 🍻🍻🍻
Always a good day when you post a style guide. If you'd like a recommendation on what to for the next style video, how about some of the Bocks?
Thanks. Yes, I have been thinking about covering at least one of the Bock styles this year.
I brewed this. I just used the recipe and didn’t test my ph and I think there was too much acid malt for me but otherwise I can confirm it is delicious and refreshing
Great to hear, cheers :)
Great job David video has made me thirsty enough to go day drinking at One of my favorite local breweries 🍻
Great to hear Bradley 🍻 I wish there were such opportunities here!
Thank you so much for your work and dedication David
Many thanks Jamie, much appreciated 🍻🍻🍻
Hey David, Just brewed a 10 Gal. batch of my version of a Helles. a bit different than yours, but I think with a similar goal. We'll see how I did in several weeks. 2 different pilsner malts-86.4%, 10.2% vienna, 2.5% munich, 1% melanoidin/honey malt. Mashed @ 154/167F, 90 min boil to express some mailard products I hope, 18 IBU composed of Helga for bittering, mix of sterling and spalter for flavor and aroma. Diamond lager pressure fermenting at 12 psi. Lagering to follow. Hope you and your wife have a great holiday season. Cheers!
Cheers John, sounds good to me :) Happy holidays
@@DavidHeathHomebrew And it is in fact a wonderful beer. I think I prefer 34/70 but the diamond wasn't a bad choice. I did ferment it at 28 psi because in my hombrew "kegmenter" I could and wanted to see the effects of higher pressure, and the math worked out that when chilled it would be at roughly serving pressure. All in all a success.
I would recommend staying with lower pressure in general, though 34/70 is known to be very tolerant.
I will be brewing this on Saturday using Saflager W-34/70 and fermenting under pressure, looking forward to tweaking my favourite beer style based on your recipe. This one I’ll do just like you have with the equivalent ingredients I’ve gotten my hands on here in Sweden. Cheers and thanks for sharing your tried and tested recipes, they are very good! 🍻😀👍
Cheers Thomas, I hope you enjoy this one as much as I do.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Done brewing this one and am fermenting it under pressure in a 23L Cornelius keg at 12psi and at 25C. My OG came out a bit high, 1054, a bit of a slow sparge but I let it take its time. I tasted the OG sample and boy I think this just may become my new favourite! I’m so looking forward to the results! 🍻😀👍
Cheers Thomas, great to hear 🍻
Happy Brewing to all
Cheers 🍻🍻🍻
Thanks David literally brewing this! Looking forward to trying it 😋
Cheers Andrew, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Uncanny, I planned to brew my Helles next week. Ditching my old recipe for yours. Cheers mate.
Great 🍻I hope you enjoy the end result 🍻
killer vid! I'm brewing this next month, cheers DH!
Thanks CH. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do 🍻
Awesome video as always, I have total faith in your recipes so I will brew this for sure.
Many thanks Alan 🍻
Great video! I’m trying to brew this beer this weekend.
Thank you, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Hey David. I brewed this beer and it is nice, but i didn’t get a clean profile. I followed the fermentation steps and measured everything. could it just be that i pulled my beer to soon from the yeast although it was fermented out? Oh and my main question is did you lager for 21 days on the yeast or transfered it in a keg to lager? Thanks in advance.
Sorry to hear that. Could be anything from bad storage until it got to you to an incomplete fermentation. Hard to nail down sadly.
I accidentally picked up Kölsch yeast when getting my ingredients for this recipe. Decided to try out and looking forward yo try it out 😊
That will give it an ale like profile, not the same but I am sure that you will still enjoy it 🍻🍻🍻
Yes, sure it will turn out drinkable. Also I made a new batch of Helles with the correct yeast. So I will be able to compare them both against eachother 🍺🍺
Great, that will be interesting 🍻🍻🍻.
How did this turn out?
🍻🍻🍻
Oh man David, you're a godsend! I made a Helles a while ago and it turned out really, really good, but not exceptional. It was probably one of the best beers I've made to date, but it lacked "something". I wasn't sure of the Pils malt I used so I did do a 90 minute boil, also used a lot of the same malts (although not Vienna, I actually used a combination of CaraMunich I and II for colour and flavour), but used a different hop (Perle), which I probably won't use again. I'll definitely give your method a shot, and definitely stick to a 30 minute boil. Thanks for this!
Cheers. Try this, I think it will have the end you are hoping for. Let me know 🍻
Great video David - would love to see a Festbier at some point too!
Cheers Lisa. Ok, Its late in the game for this year but next year should be no problem :)
And once again a style that looks interesting, I know I need to try and brew it... It only I could brew time...
Thanks :) Yes, time creation would suit me too :)
Would be great to revisit this recipe with new yeast strains.
Great idea! 🍻🍻🍻
I haven't thought about that 30 minute boiling to keep the malt flavors, I will try that next time.
I have a recipe prepared with 50% Munich light (Viking), 30% Pilsner Zero (Viking) and 20% Barke Vienna malt (Weyermann). I hope to use some saved WLP820 for that, if it's still good.
Try it and you will see what I mean 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Are you generally boiling only 30min for a ordinary pilsners as well? I hear you mention 30min boil in the video. The old rule that you need to boil pilsner malt for 90min to boil off DMS, is that a thing of the past? I have never tried a 30min boil, but if there is no difference then I would give it a try.
Yes, that is correct. I cover old vs modern brewing in the next episode of Brewing bad. This points out all the reasons behind various practices and why some of these are not relevant today, despite the fact that things like the 90 minute boil are being held onto by some still.
Brewed a Helles yesterday, interesting to know about the 30 minute boil, most recipes calling for a 90 min boil due to DMS issues. But saying that I hit the numbers bang on 1.052 OG and hopefully a FG of 1.009 giving me a 5.6% abv.
Yes, many of those recipes are sadly very out of date. I have more coming on this in my next episode of brewing bad 🍻
With pilsner malt, there used to be a good chance to get DMS however most grains we get now are so heavily modified that its very unlikely to get DMS, that you could even get away from not boiling anything. Just get up to 190For about 88C for pasteurization and start your hop schedule.
I also boiled for 90 min for a long time. After watching some Videos from David Heath I changed all my recipies to 60 min and never had any issues (I mostly use Weyermann Malts). It saves time and Energy and I ll surely try a 30 min boil the next time.
Exactly.
I prefer a 30 min boil for many styles now.
Sounds rather lovely David - I have some Saaz so I might give it a crack! Cheers
Cheers Ken, I love this recipe and style. 🍻
Brewed something similar but with neutral tasting kveik last weekend :-)
Cheers Lars 🍻
Hi David. Great recipe, and i have one question. Of the total amount of water, do you only use a few % spargewater on this recipe? in BF i got 26.16L mashwater and only 1.46L spargewater. Is that correct? Btw, i love your videos.
Thanks Svante. Yes the mash volume is dependant on the amount of grain and the sparge is the preboil top up to volume. So these can vary.
Lovely, look forward to brew it, Thanks for your efforts and time 🙏
Cheers Allan, let me know what you think 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Indeed I will however a bit behind in my brew schedule
But I can tell you about the Kölsch Beer.
Just loved it.
A good malt taste and very light fruit taste, really drinkable however not as clear as yours although at cold crash 2 -3 week.
Not quite sure what I did wrong.
Thanks David👍
Great to hear Allan. Yes the Kolsch is a close one to my heart. To get it that clear I used super moss in the boil and cold crashed it before transferring to a keg where it was held at 5C.
Hi David :)
Im going to brew this. I will ferment it under pressure as you suggest. Should i keep 25C during the whole fermentation, or ramp it towards the last part? Thank you!
It will work well for the whole fermentation, which will not last long at all 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thank you very much :) I will post a picture when ist ready!
Hello David. Would you be able to specify the pressure fermentation profile a bit more? You mentioned fermenting at 77 degrees at 12 psi but for how long? Do you still ramp up the temperature after 50% attenuation? You mentioned that this beer was lagered for 4 weeks before being transferred into a corny keg. Does that mean it remained in the primary under pressure for that period of time? Thank you for all of the great content!
Until its stable FG wise for 3 days. Lagering was also under pressure.
I was going to ask this exact question. So what is lagered in the keg under pressure? Or lagered in the fv?
The final beer and trub from fermentation
A big fan, thak you David for yet another awesome video! I had a question - instead of a secondary fermenter, can I keg directly after the primary fermentation and then let it lager for 21 days in the keg and then I plug in CO2. Your advice is much appreciated. Thank you.
Hi Parag, great to hear and much appreciated. Yes, there is no problem there at all.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks for the quick reply. Much appreciated 😊
"Keep in mind this isn't an American lager and therefore should be lagered at a higher temp" (in this case 5C). This is is the first time I've heard this! I've got an Oktoberfest/Märzen that's just about ready to be lagered. Does this mean I should be aiming for a 5C lager temp too? This will be my first lager attempt and everything I've read so far is along the lines of, "as close to 0C as possible".
For sure Tor. Lower temps will remove flavour. This suits American lager but not European lagers which are all about those subtle flavours.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew This is good to know! I'll be aiming for a 5C lager instead of the oringally planned 2C. Cheers!
I am sure you will notice the difference. Let me know 🍻
Brilliant video, thanks. I'm dipping my toes into all grain for the first time with this recipe ( after a load of Helles extract fails). I plan on doing this in a biab setup. Apart from making appropriate changes in Brewfather, for my setup, any other advice/changes/tips for a biab setup? Thanks.
Thanks Simon great to hear. I think all I can add is to make sure your grain crush is fine and during the mash I suggest stirring the grain for a couple of minutes every 20 minutes. By doing this you will ensure great efficiency despite having no recirculation.
Hey David, ever fancied doing a Rice Lager? I haven’t tried one myself but hear they come out really smooth, I think it might make a nice addition to your channel for a bit of variety and should create a bit of extra interest, what do you think? Keep up the great work.
Hi Kevin, Yes, I have. I rather like them. You can expect something in the future 🍺
Great video as usual. Any specific reason why you didn't go with German noble hops ? So many good options such as spalt, tradition, select, etc.
Thanks Eamonn. I agree that there are many great German noble hops. However I simply prefer Saaz and these fit well. Also they are easily obtainable world wide and thus better to share as part of my recipe.
This looks excellent and I’ll give it a go shortly. One quick question… if I’m bottling rather than using a keg, do you think the bottling should be done after the initial fermentation? I.e. before or after the 3 week ‘storage’ phase?
Great thank you. Yes you can lager in the bottle 🍻🍻🍻
I'll have to try another Helles. I wasn't impressed with a commercial one I tried.
Cheers Curt. Yes, ive had some lacking commercial versions also.
Another one I am adding to my list to try David. Thanks for all the recipes David. I have your pineapple mango raw IPA on tap right now and it is a popular one!
In terms of lagering, is there any concern of finishing the fermentation schedule and then transferring to a corny keg and lagering in this way? With my setup this is much easier and frees up my fermentation chamber for the next brew.
Cheers Dave. Great to hear that you are enjoying the Pineapple and Mango raw :)
You can lager in the keg if this suits you. I would do a cold crash first in the FV if you can.
Thanks for the tip.
🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew After the cold crash and transfer to the corny for lagering, is a spunding valve required, or can you lager in the corny keg without one? Also assume that I should purge the Keg with co2 as well before starting the lauger as well.
looks really refreshing, thanks
Cheers 🍻🍻🍻
Great video as usual but I’ve got a question. Can you taste a difference between pressure fermentation and traditional fermentation for lagers? Thanks in advance
Thanks Todd.
Personally I can but it is subject to the individuals taste buds. Pressure should allow for a cleaner more crisp lager.
David could you give me a few pointers. Did this beer twice. First time it reeked of acetaldehyde but cleared up lovely (safale yeast), same thing this time but hasn't cleared up (diamond). Both done under pressure. I did give the yeast longer the first time ... How do I avoid next time 🤦 thanks
Hi Liam, this is usually something that will clean up. If not then it suggests poor yeast health of the beer sitting on the yeast for too long.
Hi David, excellent video as always. One question: what do you think about the side pull czech faucet? Do you think that they make a difference when pouring lagers in general and this style in particular? Thanks!
Thank you. I think they are impressive but faucets these days are improving hugely. I have gone 100% Nukatap on my kegerators.
Did you use hop flower or pellet?
Hi David. I'm planning on making this (my favourite recipe so far) and I was wondering if I could use Golden Promise rather than Pilsner or would it cause a problem? Thanks in advance :)
Go for it Paul. No problem at all. Many will find the difference quite small in fact
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thank you Beer Guru :)
Cheers Paul 🍻🍻🍻
Your video came at a perfect time as I had a 5 gallon keg needing to be filled! Brewed this recipe today. Ended up pitching 2 sachets of 34/70 @ 68F degrees and attached a spunding valve set for 12 PSI, planning on letting the temp free-rise to ambient which has been upper 70s lately.
In regards to pressure and the higher temps, should the fermentation vessel be pressurized to 12PSI right at pitch, or just wait for the fermentation to gradually bring the pressure up to target?
Great to hear. With 34/70 and this style no problem in going pressure right from the start. Enjoy 🍺
Morning David. I have brewed and almost finished this one --- THNAK YOU ----. Its very tasty and seems to be enjoyed by non beer drinkers too. Do you have a good recipe for an Octoberfest / Marzen beer?
Hey Hamish, great to hear.
I am still working on this recipe, maybe it will be ready in some months.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew very exciting. I'll wait with baited breath 🙂
🍻🍻🍻
Hi David Can I substitute Golden Promise for the Pils? Thanks :)
You can but its going to add sweet malty and caramel flavours. Not really to style but could be good.
Great recipe. I have mine fermenting at 10psi and 10degC at the moment, but realising I couldve gone warmer since pressurised. Any harm in bringing temp up to finish it off?
No problem doing that under pressure 🍻🍻
Great video as usual. Would you recommend the same fermentation temperatures/times if using w-34/70 in other Lager styles, for instance a Vienna?
Yes, that would work well.
Hi! Great video, as always. I have just build my own glycol chiller and want to brew my first lager... this will be the one! A question though; you advise to taste the beer every week while lagering to stop the lager process when the taste is to your liking. But; how can you stop the lager process? The beer will sit in a keg at 5 celsius anyway so will it not just lager on until the keg is empty?
Hi, It really depends on how you will store it, some can or bottle too. Also some keg users use a beer dispenser. Either way its good to only start drinking it fully once it has reached the state you enjoy. After this it will not get worse if you continue lagering. Some also increase the temperature when they are finished lagering in a keg. Many options and choices :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks for the quick reply! That clears it up :)
🍻🍻🍻
One more, the mash here is the usual 65/75C. In your "Mash steps in beer brewing easy guide" video, you say that a 62/68/75C is your prefered Pilsner mash. Is the 65/75 for convenience or best suited to the Helles?
Hi Adam, I found little difference with this style, so I made it easy with a 65/75.
Thanks David for another amazing video. I have one question - what water profile you'd suggest for this beer style? Thanks
Cheers Alex. I gave full water profile information near the start of the video 🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks. My bad :( I was looking at brewfather recipe in the morning and did not see water profile there. I started to watch video now and immediately realized how my question is irrelevant. sorry about that.
No problem at all :) 🍻
Hi David... Looking for information on how long pressure fermentation is and if there need of some kind of lagering or maturing for this process. Another question that I have is if you use the same amount of yeast for pressure fermentation.
Hi Erick, PF will often shorten fermentation time but yeast varies and so will the time. Lagering is still used if you use lager yeast. Pitching rate is the same. Check out my PF guide:- ua-cam.com/video/W7WSFn6bNoA/v-deo.html
Also this PF safety guide:- ua-cam.com/video/gvUnKkcjoN8/v-deo.html
@@DavidHeathHomebrew David, thanks for your prompt response, I really enjoy your videos, this time I follow your recommendation for PF and use W34-70 at 12 psi and 23°C... So, can I ask you a fermentation profile (days) for PF of this beer?
And I will like to suggest that if you can add this instructions in the comment section of beer recipe in Brewfather when you recommend 2 or more different methods for fermenting or mashing or an anything that differs from the recipe you share, as this will make more easy to understand.
The problem is time will vary, so allow 14 days and see 🍻
As for the instructions I really want people to watch the video for all those and keep the recipe to one plan for ease. It would be never ending otherwise.
Hi. I want to make a 70 ltr batch of this beer as a BITB but when I multiply up the volumes the mash and sparge water volume is 105 ltrs. this seems a lot for a 70 ltr batch. Can tell me the volumes for a 70 ltr batch?
Cheers
Hi Tony, adjusting a recipe is not just simple maths. There is much more to calculating volume and aspects like bitterness via hops.
The best and easy way is to use brewing software. I suggest using Brewfather which also has the benefit of having a free version that is fully featured compared to the premium version. Water is also something that will vary for different setups and situations.
Hey David! Ive got a batch fermenting using the regular method. I've reached the end of the initial 9 days and my gravity is still quite high at 1.023... Is this as it should be and itll hit the FG during lager, or should I let it hit 1.008 before lagering? Thanks!
I would suggest increasing temperature to encourage a full attenuation. 1,023 is way too high.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew increase it beyond the current 66.2°F?
Yes, go up to 70F
Fantastic, love your videos and lagers in particular. I plan to use Bonsak Fairytale Pils. Would the 30 min boil also apply for this malt?
Further, I guess I could swap 34/70 with WLP830?
Hi Håvar. I am not very familiar with this malt. Certainly some farm malts use the old floor malting process and the malt is not as modified as mainstream malt. I would suggest going with the old rules when using this.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks for your advice David. That was my thinking as well. Will try the short boil with some other pilsner malt later.
Great, enjoy 🍻
Thanks for the review, this is one of my all time favorite beers after serving in Europe for a few years. Question about fermentation, I am fermenting a festbier right now under 10 psi and using Munich lager yeast. Any thoughts? Would you rather use saflager under pressure?
Very sorry for the late comment for some reason UA-cam hid this from me. I prefer lager yeast under pressure personally. Much cleaner
Would you recommend lagering on the yeast or off?
Off the yeast 🍻🍻🍻
Hi Dave, another great video as always. Please can you explain the fermentation times. Do I ferment for a full 5 days at 10, then change fermenter temperature setpoint to 13 and then 2 days later move to the next setpoint, or do I ferment at 10 for 5 days, adjust the temperature setpoint to 13 but only start the 2 day timer once the beer temperature has reached 13? I have the grainfather conical fermenter so I'm curious about what data to enter into the fermentation profile. Can I leave the beer in the same fermenter for the full lagering period or is it best to rack to a secondary. Is it advisable to rack to keg and then let it lager for the 21 days? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks.
Hi Simon, the later example. Temp times start once temperature is reached. Yes, leave the beer in the FV for fermentation and lagering. You could also transfer to a keg and lager there too.
David I'm 100g short on carapils. What would you suggest as a substitute....I have pale,pils, wheat, carahell, Vienna, melanoid... Thanks
Hi Liam, cant you get more carapils? Nothing you list will be the same.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I just went with it 100g short. Nothing I could do. Even tried my local brewery but they had none on site 🤦😅
Hi David, thank you so much for your Videos. I really appriaciate them all! I got a question concerning the hops of this Beer. I couldn't manage to get "Summer" Hops in Germany. All my vendors dind't list them or they are out of stock. My research did not yield any substitution possibilities either. What is your recommendation for an alternative? Thank you so much.
Hi Peter, great to hear. Summer is the name for Saaz grown in Australia. Any other Saaz version will work nicely.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks a lot. I'll try this recipe in August an let you know how it turns out ;)
Great, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David, great video as always. I understand that you have a lot of experience with using kveik yeast. Have you tried this style or recipe with either Lutra or Voss yeast? Would you recommend it? I do not have temperature control as yet and would really love to try this style.
Thanks Derek. I have used Voss with this one. It works best under pressure but you can also ferment lower at 20-24 max and this is lager like.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thank you! Appreciate the reply!
🍻🍻🍻
Surprisingly hazy after all the lagering + time in keg. What does "Helles" mean again? :P
Haha it could have been higher in clarity, I agree but then my one and only concern really is how it tastes.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew This is very interesting. I'm always concerned about clarity because that's always a thing people point out when I give them a beer to try but it makes sense if you clear it too much it will lose taste. Do you think if you left the beer for one more month in lagering, it would get clearer but still with most of the flavor? I would like to try to get the best of both worlds.
Certainly lagering at low temperature will lose flavour as well as clearing the beer much faster.
I suggest lagering Euroean lagers at 5C to combat this. If fast clarity is a concern then you can use fining agents. Personally I go natural.
As always a greate Video! A small question regarding the fermentation: do you let the Beer sit in top of the yeast for the 5°C/21 day step or do you recommend removing the yeast by Transferring to another vessle?
Personally I dumped the trub from the conical before starting to lager but some leave it.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew is there a difference between lagering in the fermenter (with or without dumping the trub) and transfer to keg and lagering?
When done in the right way then no 🍻
I am brewing this recipe and fermenting under pressure at 12psi. Does this mean I can skip the lagering period and move directly to kegging or bottling after I’ve hit FG for 2-3 days?
Lagering is something you have a choice around. Personally I opt to do it for at least a couple of weeks.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks very much, David. I'll give it a couple of weeks at 41F in keg once I've transferred it out of my pressure fermenter. Looking forward to trying it!
Great, hope you enjoy it Tim 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David. I planned to try this in the coming weeks to check if it would be a good option to brew in larger quantities for my son's wedding in August among some other styles.. I plan to ferment under pressure as my fermentation chamber for temperature control is in use. Can you still clarify the schedule a bit, i think i saw you talking about diacetyl rest below in some comment. So when i ferment under constant 20 something and 12 psi, do i still do some "diacetyl rest" i.e. rise the temperature at some point? When, for how long, what temperature and pressure? Also, for lagering: if i lager in 5 degrees shall i put a gas bottle to maintain the 12 psi when it cooled? Thanks for any further advice!
Hi Petri, I am sure this will be popular as a wedding beer. The great thing about pressure is you can go at higher temps right from the start so there is no need to raise for a D rest.
Yes you can lager with the same pressure and this will provide carbonation at the same time. You can decide after this if its too much or too little and make adjustments.
Hi David, I would like to ask you: do you see any benefit from using acidulated malt instead of lactic acid? Also, do you bring down to lagering temp directly or progressively? Thank you very much in advanced, have a great weekend:)
Hi Jamie, both are providing lactic acid, so really its about a choice of medium. I take temperature down in stages personally. Cheers 🍻🍻🍻
Hi. Noticed that you dont rehydrate the dry yeast. Do you think rehydrating is unnecessary?
Also, i prefer fresh yeast (for some reason i seem to have greater success with the beers where i used fresh yeast). What is your suggested fresh yeast for this beer?
Hi John, Yes rehydrating yeast is old advice and in recent times studies have backed this up. The sachets from companies still recommend it but these are to be replaced.
Hi David, would you consider using a kveik strain like lutra for this? For a pseudo lager I mean.
Yes, for sure 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew what temp would you use for the lutra?
20C works great.
I'm curious; wouldn't the emphasis of a Munich beer be on Munich malt... or at least SOME Munich in the grain bill? Why would it be avoided in this case?
Munich the place and Munich malt are two different things and this beer style doesnt need the malt as such.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew
I get that, it’s more a curiosity to me, specifically what would Munich malt bring to the table that wouldn’t fit with this style? My main reason for asking I’ll admit is that Munich is my favorite malt and I like to try to work it into everything.
I love Munich malt too :)
Nothing to stop you trying it, its just not commonplace for the style. Sometimes very light munich is used though but on the low side to not change the desired very clean character. Munich will overpower and muddle this.
Hi David! I've always had a hard time choosing dry lager yeast , so perhaps you could give me some advice. I have acces to Fermentis W34-70 , Fermentis S-23, Lallemand Diamond, MJ M84 and MJ M76. For warm summer fermentations I've always used W34 at about 20 degrees ,and S-23 with similar results yet more esters but I've never tried the others. Is it worth switching from Fermentis to Lallemand Diamond or Mangrove Jack? Thanks!
These are all good yeast :) I have trouble deciding myself :p
Hi David, I'm going to brew this one next week! I will be using my Fermzilla to pressure ferment at 12 PSI, for how long should I keep this at 25 degrees C? And should I condition it for three weeks also?
You will probably find that one week is enough. I would highly recommend lagering for the best results.
Do you pitch yeast at 25c also if pressure fermenting
Yes, no problem.
Hi David, at what wort temperature did you pitch the dry yeast in this video? I plan to do this recipe very soon.
At the same temperature as the fermentation temp. See the recipe in full in the videos description section on UA-cam.
Hi Dave
I have this one busy fermenting at the moment. Really looking forward to it.
This is my first time brewing a lager and I have some questions.
1. It took my about 8 days to reach 50% attenuation at 10 degrees. This is slower than what you describe. Is this going to be a problem?
2. When I start lagering, i will do so in a keg. Can I already start adding co2 to the keg to get a head start on carbonation while lagering at 5 degrees?
Thanks for your help
Hey Clayton,
1) results can vary in terms of time, usually no issue
2) yes, keg lagering is a great option. 5-7C is ideal
Cheers 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thank you very much. Just to be certain, when you say Keg Lagering is a great option, you do mean that lagering can happen in the keg while under CO2 pressure to get a head start on carbonating? If so, any recommended ideal pressure I should have it at?
Thank you
Yes, that is correct 🍻🍻🍻
David, I cannot brew from scratch unfortunately, I can only brew from extract. After living in Germany off and on for 14 years I yearn to be able to make two beers - Herforder pils and Augustiner Edelstoff, I know using extract and a home brew facility I will truly never get there, I’ve brewed some really tasty beers, and I do have temp controlled fridges to get the temps right. My biggest problem is I can’t get the lovely light colour! I have used LME, DME, sugar in all combinations but it’s alway too dark. Am I being duped in to using too much DME or LME by the seller, should I used more dextrose? Any help much appreciated. I’ve just got some commercial Pilsner and Munich LME, I plan to use Hallertau mittlefru and tetnanger hops pellets.
Hi Daz, why not go small batch brew in a bag? Its cheap and you will save money very soon compared to extract. See this:- ua-cam.com/video/4HufFBFhMDU/v-deo.html
Great video! Question...Is the lagering done in the primary fermenter?
Thank you. It can be but some prefer to remove the trub first.
OK, thank you
🍻🍻🍻
Hi David, I enjoyed this so much I'm making another batch today. If i use Lutra do I still need 2 packets or will one be plenty? Also first try at pressure fermenting cheers :)
Hi Paul, great to hear. One sachet of Lutra is enough. The liquid variety has 2-3 times what you need.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I had a disaster yesterday as I was trying your Vienna lager again as the last one just didn't ferment (my fault) and I knocked my digital clock into the boiling wart 5 minutes to go. After fishing out the melted plastic blob there was no way I was drinking that. Another batch of top quality lawn feed lol
Ouch, that is bad luck for sure 😬
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Hi David, the saga continues...... Sunday 31L in new F40 2 packets of Lutra 12 PSi 22 degrees.1050 Next day (Monday) 1035 last 2 days 1025 I've increased temperature tonight to 24 degrees and if still 1025 in the morning I will add a 3rd packet of Lutra to try and get it going again........
I forgot to say 3/8 BSP Male to. 3/8 NPT Female to enable Grainfather Chiller pipes to fit Brewtools tanks if it is any help to others. I used a Inkbird STC 1000 and a 12v to 240V relay for the heater. :)
Love the schlenkerla helles. Not a munich style though.
Plenty of great options 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David, just wondering how you can lager at 1 degree with a Grainfather CF as it says not to go lower than 6 degrees? Cheers :)
Hi Paul, you cannot. If you manually adjust then you can go lower than 6C though.
I did this brew a couple of weekends ago but used the llalemand diamond yeast. I pressure fermented for a week at 15 psi then did a closed transfer to keg, some of the yeast in suspension was transferred too. Just over a week in the keg i decided to try it but it's got a very funky smell and taste. It's still a bit cloudy, should i leave it to settle longer or have i definitely got a bad batch? I would say the funk smell is close to sweaty feet
Hopefully it will pass, lager yeast can really stink. Though it could be oxidation if it persists.
7:35 so you do not remove the beer from the yeast cake before lagering?
Personally no. A matter of choice. Try both ways and see what you think 🍻🍻🍻
David, I'm planning on brewing this beer for an Oktoberfest comp here in Australia. My LHBS isn't familiar with the summer SAAZ hops and when reading the description thought that it didn't suit the style. In saying that, is there an alternate hop you would use that I could get here in AUS???
Summer Saaz are actually Australian grown Saaz. They suit this style perfectly in fact but if you cannot obtain them then Saaz in general will work just fine too. Good luck on the comp 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks David. I have saaz in my freezer. I have a option of getting chec saaz. Thoughts.
Saaz will do the job. In reality the differences between the versions, despite the marketing hype, is not massive. I would go with what you have 🍻🍻🍻
I've decided to use WLP820 yeast. Thoughts on that?
Not one that I have used but I suspect that it will work. I stick to dry yeast these days personally.
Hi David. Is the 5C Lahr ting carried out once the beer is bottled (so in effect conditioning) rather than when still in the fermenter? Also, I usually cold crash to 3C before bottling - is this necessary here do you think? Many thanks.
Lagering that should read of course! 🤪
This is optional, unless you intend to lager for a longer period.
Have decided to try this recipe as my first ever non-ale, and have a question about the fermentation schedule.
Does the "one degree C a day"-rule apply here as well, or can i increase faster? I assume i should be careful between 10 and 13, since there is a lot of job left for the yeast, but how about between 13 to 17? Should i spend four days just on the increase?
EDIT:
And also, how much time do i gain if i were to pressure ferment it instead?
Hi, yes the 1C per day rule is a good one to follow in general throughout. You will save time usually with pressure fermentation but the actual time saved will vary recipe and yeast wise. In some cases the difference is dramatic.
As I see you FG is 1.008. I fermented w-34/70 at 20 C and after 6 days the gravity is 1.012 (now the temperature is 18 C). I was wondering what can cause that. I used the mash schedule that you proposed
Hi Nick, we can only estimate gravity in brewing. There are multiple variables that can impact this and variation is an accepted norm.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I understand but I would like to fix it. From what thing to start the research?
It could be the grain used. You could also try a higher temp than 18 to squeeze out more attenuation
I am well set up to ferment cold or to ferment u fee pressure, which fermentation profile tastes best with 34/70? I’ve used the yeast at many temps and pressures with lots of success but havnt found a favorite method. But 60F at 10 psi has seemed like a nice middle ground.
Hi Mark. My preferred pressure level is 10-12 PSI for all. I generally do not go too much over ambient temps, unless its kveik yeast.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew what temperature do you think is best?
If you are using pressure then your amient temp or higher will be fine.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew
Followed this recipe, fermented 34/70 cold but fast lager method like the recipe.
Won BEST IN SHOW! At a county fair with 100 entries.
@marklpaulick Excellant news Mike, sounds like you nailed it 🍻🍻🍻
It's curious how similar this recipe is to your bohemian pilsner when it comes to grain bill and hops. I'm about to brew your version of the bohemian but substituting munich this time with vienna and adding some biscuit and carabody (as you gave the option in the laydown of that recipe).
The only difference with this Helles recipe that I can spot is the BU/GU ratio.
Though I guess I shouldn't be surprised as these two beers are historically quite similar. Or maybe I'm missing something?
Do you suggest doing the lagering process in your fermentation vessel or could I just use gelatin in the fermenter while cold crashing for around 4 days to get it clear, then transfer to a keg and then lager in it for some weeks?
EDIT: seems like you've already answered the question and it seems to be ok to use keg for lagering.
On a sidenote I've never understood what is the mechanism of cold storage affecting the flavor further on.
Hi, are you referring to this Bohemian Pilsner? ua-cam.com/video/NWx_wPNsTTw/v-deo.html Its similar in ways though not that similar I would say. You can lager in your fermentation vessel though I prefer to transfer off the trub first usually. Lagering has an impact on flavour, its a techincal one to explain though.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew yes that's the one. Well it does have a whirlpool addition also. But how many different ways can you make an European lager anyways :)
Thanks for quick response as usual David. I have an allrounder so I can't remove the trub and don't wanna tie the fermenter for too many weeks to lager so I guess I'll do it in the keg.
Keep the excellent content coming! 💪🏻
Hops are likely to be more similar for sure.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I've tried pressure fermenting lagers with 34/70 and diamond. Usually when the OG is reached if I leave for only 2-3 days of diacetyl rest the whole batch is ruined. The only ones that have came out good where I've left it clean up for 6 days.
This is really curious and this has happened like 4 times already when I've thought OK this must be ready and after cold crash when I taste it there is really hard to describe taste that makes it undrikable. It's not bad but the beer does not taste like lager.
I usually ferment around 21 degrees C 20-25 psi and this the yeast is usually done within five days.
Any explanation as it seems your protocal of 25 degrees C does not require diacetyl rest?
EDIT: OK so the problem was sulphur. I ran another sulfure batch through copper tube and then it was ok.
Hey David. If I choose to ferment under pressure in a corny keg @ 21C….how long would it need to ferment ?
Hi, it will certainly be faster than without pressure. Averagely 3-4 days but it depends on yeast, temp and pressure level.
Brewing this Tuesday and realized I got cz saaz with a AA% of 2.2... will this backfire? Should i go out and get a few more oz to up the IBUs?
I suggest calculating IBU every time. I have a guide here:- ua-cam.com/video/Vv-bU757E7w/v-deo.htmlsi=jmxEibrZ6nmobgJN
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks! Guess I'm going shopping!
Enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David I've been brewing for about 18 months and I'm yet to try a lager so thought I would give it a go.
One question I have, is the lagering period reduced in length when pressure fermented or does it not effect it? thanks
Hi Andy, no lagering is seperate and unrelated to pressure.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks David
🍻🍻🍻
Hi David, one more question about this recipe: You use Summer hops. I have never used it but read that it has some notes of apricot, melon, even peach, passionfruit and citrus. Sound very different from typical Saaz hopped lagers. Is it so or does the summer really substitute Saaz here well?
Hi Petri, If you can get Summer then use those but this works well with Saaz too.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks alot again David. I would like to try Summer but availability of both Summer and Saaz from my local shops is bad at the moment so i think i have to try with Sterling. Hope it works too..
Yes, a good Saaz sub
Hi David, Brewed this on saturday with g40. OG 1.049. Looks great, a bit lighter colour than i expected. Fermentation under pressure according to your video. Strong fermenting and pressure same night. Now on Monday morning no more gas coming out, pressure dropped to 10 psi, sg 1.011 (target 1.008). How long do you suggest i keep it in the warm (24c) before dropping to 5c? Should i attach gas bottle to keep the pressure at 12psi?
Great. I would give the fermenter a gentle rocking and give it a couple more days to perhaps go lower but 1,011 will be fine.
Hi David, I brewed this maybe month ago, using Diamond lager at 25c, and 12 psi. After hitting FG, I dropped the temp to 5c for 21 days and then I transferred it to keg. It's been sitting for 2 weeks at 12 psi and I tried it and it's definitely not good. It has some almost sour taste, maybe best word to describe it is cidery. Is there any hope and is that something that will go away or I should just dump it? It's not an infection I'm certain, one thing comes to mind is that I pitched it at 25c and let pressure rise to 25 naturally.
that sounds like Acetaldehyde. I would store at room temperature for 4 weeks and then see where it is. Quite often it will fade
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks David, not sure what happened, but hopefully this will work.
Fingers crossed for you 🍻🍻🍻
I have been waiting for you to cover this style! Thank you!! What are your thoughts on substituting Chit Malt for the CaraPils? I have used 34/70 at 15psi and 64F (18C) for years. I will have to try at even higher temperatures now. Thank you
Cheers 🍻 Chit malt being almost raw barley will be a little different but does bring similar qaulities as carapils. I tend to avoid it personally but it could be an ok sub.
Would something like Hallertau hops work well in this?
Yes, they sure will :)
When you say DMS for modern malt is a thing of the past, is that also true with 6row ?
I know little about six row. It is not used for brewing outside of the US. The rest of the world uses it just as chicken feed.
Hi David, how do you think, can I use BestMaltz Pilsen malt instead of Ireks and boil for only 30 min? I'm just worried about DMS. Thank you
That will be perfectly fine. Major malsters are all safe. Just be careful with farm malt as it is much less modified.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thank You
🍻🍻🍻
So I did this beer and its in the fermenter atm. Upon pitching I somehow set the regulator wrong and In the first 12 hours it got up to over 30psi. I reset the pressure at 12psi but would I have done any damage to the yeast in that space of time at 30psi +?
Thanks
Hi Liam, Maybe but hopefully not. 🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew 😤 Thanks David. 🤞🤞🤞
🍻🍻🍻
Do you add pressure right away, or do you let it rise naturally? And if you do the latter, do you pitch at 25C?
I add my pressure manually to ensure that my spunding valve is set where I need it. Yes, pitch at 25 :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Have you done any testing with Diamond vs. 34/70 under pressure? Seeing as 34/70 is very temperature tolerant to begin with, I assume the results should be somewhat different.
I did a 34/70 at 23C, 12PSI and compared it to a similar brew where I pitched at 20C and let it free rise to 12PSI. The latter tastes cleaner.
Ive not done lots of comparison but so far Diamond flocs faster and seems cleaner.
Unusual split between the mash/sparge water in Brewfather. 26 litre (mash) 1.4 litre (sparge) is this correct?
Yes it is. Brewfather calculated this on the basis of the grain bill and volume.
Great thanks David, I will be brewing this tomorrow. Looking forward to it!
Cheers Tim 🍺