This looks very promising. I've done pretty well with cheap PIR sensors but also have to do the long timer trick. Plus, my biggest complaint is there is often a long delay when I enter a room before they detect me (sometimes to the point where I have to wave my arms around for a few seconds before anything happens).
Yea. In the video where the lights come on and then I walk into frame. The entrance to that space is 595 cm according to the sensor and the lights come on as soon as I round the corner Everytime.
I checked and I see it's using LD2410. In my experience, the affective range for presence detection is about 2.5 meters. After 2.5m, it's good only as a motion sensor.
Right on. I know the PIR sensor picks me up at 5 m. But the device tracks me to what it says is 595 centimeters. I know that the door way to my space is right at 6 meters from the device. And as soon as I step past the doorway the lights come on and it says the room is occupied. Maybe something in my environment is giving it a boost
@@SlackerLabs I used the bt version of the LD2410. Connected it using bt proxy. I put it in my living room next to the TV. While sitting still on the sofa, which is about 3m away from the TV, it stopped sensing me after a short while. Only when I moved, it noticed me again.
Yea. This one hasn’t lost me yet. When when sitting still. Well except then it goes offline. But even then it’s usually stuck with occupancy on. There could be a code component too though. And I can’t see it. But given ogle the distance calculations only update with movement I suspect there could be code to normalize the occupancy so it’s more stable. Dunno.
The case looks to be 3D printed at a quality doesn't looks to be close to normal consumer quality levels - so I assume its a 'hand' built prototype - will final versions be standard consumer quality plastics? Hiding the cable through the mounting barrel (at least as an option) would be a requirement for me. Some kind of slimline turret mount would be even more preferable to me for cleaner looks since the idea is to have one in ~each room. The install needs to be more seamless - more development needed. I do like the extra tunability in the app and from what you say it seems it works well.
Hmm I am really curious about the price. Since it is still in development, maybe they can add an extra USB C or power connection option on the back so that when you want to tuck the cable away, you don't have an ugly plug sticking out. Feel a bit sorry for Lewis and hope the EP1 is not a major source of income for him. But then again this was to be expected.
This looks like pretty much the same as EP1, but smaller and maybe slightly prettier? Very curious to learn about the price. The setup looks a lot more complicated with this one though.
Yeah, seems to be functionally almost identical to the EP1, but you have to use the web interface to change the settings, whereas the EP1 you can do it via the entities directly in home assistant. I do like the the distance 'zones' idea, which the EP1 doesnt currently have.
With the Room Sense you can change them in Home Assistant. But there you dont have the visual feedback of the changes compared to what the sensor is seeing. I dont see that functionality in the EP1. I also dont see where you can change the what motion should be detected or ignored based on distance with the EP1.
I';m about to do the setup with the EP1 and will be able to compare. From watching videos of other UA-camrs they seem similar. Although I think the ESPHome route the EP1 goes makes it a bit easier. The RoomSense team is still working on getting everything buttoned up, so I expect it will get easier.
Seems as though they aimed lower than Aqara did with the FP2, which may be a good thing as that one has been horribly unreliable. If this one just accurately tells when someone is or is not in the room...perfect. By the way, do you know if this one is local or if it requires internet?
@@SlackerLabs I have seen a lot of YOuTube videos on the FP2, and some of them having no issues in Home Assistant. Not sure about Apple though, I don't do anything apple.
Yeah, FP2 just works perfct with HA. There was an old FW which did not, so a simple update might solve the issue. For me it was a really good choice, because of the better area handling. Not just distance but left and right, so real zones can be created.
How does the roomsense compare to other sensors like the Aqara FP2 or Louis's (everything smart home) EP1 (Everything Presence 1)? The EP1 is based on esp home.
I’m working on a comparison to the EP1. I couldn’t get the FP2 to talk to apple home after it connected and I couldn’t get it into home assistant after multiple tries. So in my opinion the RoomSense beats the FP2
@@SlackerLabs The Athom ar a bit simpler. They don't support areas or similar. They can just detect motion. But for simpler tasks they work great. I have one in my office and one in a bathroom. They work really well.
It sounds like the radar is one-dimensional - it doesn't "see" in 3D or 2D even, hence you only get distance and not area pix. I think, what makes radars revolutionary for occupancy is precisely the possibility of adding multi-dimensionality so you can make more seamless and granular / smarter automations based on people's exact placement in the room. Being "present" in, say, a loft, doesn't telegraph human intent anywhere near the same way as - sitting down in front of a TV, or - walking up to a record collection cabinet, or a shelf holding wine glasses or a dishwasher.
I finally received my roomsense labs iq and climate. While it provides great data, do you have any idea how to disable the built-in AP and/or change its password? Seems like a huge oversite and very insecure to not disable the config AP after connecting to wifi.
I actually haven't tested the EP1...mine is still in the box. But from what I know of the EP1, I suspect performance will be comparable between both. The only difference I have seen is just the level of configurability. I dont see a way on the EP1 to dial in different ones, and be able to tell the device to focus on small movement or large movement in specific zones. But again, I haven't really had a chance to tinker with it so perhaps you can. 🤦
@@SlackerLabs Whaaat? Get that thing outta the box and try it out! The EP1 is extremely customizable and even allows a fully customized ESPHome config if you want. Great video as always, but the EP1 seems to win this contest hands down, I would love to see your thoughts after using both though.
This looks good but how safe is it for humans to have mmWave radar constantly bouncing off the cells in our bodies? Do cells mutate and lead to cancer? Just asking the question.
I’m going to start this with, this is not my area of expertise. But from what I have read in the scientific journals the RF that can cause cancer in organs is ionizing RF and mmWave sits in non-ionizing part of the spectrum. MmWave bounces off the skin and in fact they are looking to see if it can be used to detect skin cancer. But it doesn’t penetrate the skin to organs. So I think internal organs are safe. As a HAM operator I know if you are close enough and power output is high enough RF can burn your skin. But at the power these sensors are operating at I think your chance of getting burned is low even if you are touching the board. Unless you tinker with power. The organ impacted by non ionizing RF is going to be skin. And again it appears mmWaves ability to penetrate past the skin appears to nonexistent. So I think organs are safe. if you raised the power through modification you might get burned though. 24ghz mmWave at the maximum allowed power has a very low absorption rate even at 5 cm. So I think these sensors are safe. 60ghz mmWave has a higher rate of skin absorption but even then in studies the waves don’t make past your skin. So from what I can tell at the max allowed power 24ghz is safe and from the peered reviewed studies I have read it doesn’t have the ability to modify DNA. But again, this isn’t my area of expertise so I encourage research. Just ensure the researched is focused on 24ghz mmWave frequencies and pay attention to the power and distance used in the study since both are critical variables.
the ultimate sensor, r u serious ? A few cheap ali-express sensors combined in an ugly designed 3d printed case. No Zone Positioning or Multi-Person Detection...
It’s got zone positioning. Knows exactly where you are in the room. You just have to know where your zones are. And multi person is coming in a future firmware update.
Only three countries in the world use imperial measurements : The United States of America, Myanmar, and Liberia! However, in Myanmar and Liberia, the metric system has been used parallel with imperial, and both countries are on their way to completely switch on using only the metric system.
I mean I get what you are saying, but as humans isn't that what we do? We see an idea, take it, and put our own spin on it? The hardware is similar for sure but that goes for all mmWave Presence sensors. From what I can see the implementation and integration with home Assistant and the code that uses that hardware to detect presence is different. And lets be honest, I love Lewis, and bought multiples of the EP1 (about to no longer be sitting in the box) but If we want to get technical the EP1 isn't the first mmWave Presence Wave Sensor. Lewis took the idea, and made it better. I suspect we will see more variations inspired by the EP1.
@@SlackerLabs Well for install and config EP 1 is 100% easier than this new one so I stick with it. And for the moment the future of the Aqara FP2 is uncertain. For the moment the firmware page is unreachable and Amazon give a 8 usd coupon. Correlated?
This is a LD2410 radar sensor. It's literally using a $3 radar sensor, a $10 dollar esp and maybe $5 of light, humidityand pir sensor. Even the distance software is a re-skinn of the ld2410 dev software. More of a scam than the EP1 (at least that has an expensive radar sensor, but honestly not worth the price versus fp2)
Advanced sensor fusion techniques and custom post-processing of sensors raw data are implemented to enhance reliability of the device and significantly reduce the occurrence of false alarms.
Just recorded at different times and haven't really got everything figured out in this new space with my audio so most of that is me making adjustments each time I record at the desk. Hopefully the next time it won't be so crazy...
I'll stick with my DIY LD2410C mmWave sensor connected to a ESP32 which depending on the room also has BME280 for temp & humidity, a BH1750 LUX (light sensor). Also on certain packages i added a button and/or Rotary encoder for light brightness and dimming/brightening and On/Off functionality. Also whoever 3D printed that case needs to seriously bed level that printer. That has to be one of the worse 3D printed objects I've seen for a while.
@@Obtuse94 I have several links it's done with ESPHome add-on in home assistant. Unfortunately we can't leave links in another persons you tube channel.
@@pimw9805 mm waves are dangerous to living things... Just do some searches, even Google will show you. We can't hide from what they do but we need not willingly bring this crap into our lives. There are creative ways to get there without mm waves...
Yea that does seem like a better design. Not sure how complicated that would be to move. Electrical engineering is not my area of expertise. But I agree. Design wise I think that would make these things easier to mount and look better.
This looks very promising. I've done pretty well with cheap PIR sensors but also have to do the long timer trick. Plus, my biggest complaint is there is often a long delay when I enter a room before they detect me (sometimes to the point where I have to wave my arms around for a few seconds before anything happens).
Yea. In the video where the lights come on and then I walk into frame. The entrance to that space is 595 cm according to the sensor and the lights come on as soon as I round the corner Everytime.
I'd love to see a Zigbee built one, to many WiFi items clogging up the network is a pain these days.
Is disagree, my zigbee network often drops sensors, while my 50+ esp devices are rock sollid on my unify system
I've been playing around with this and love it!
Haha - awesome! I'm currently testing it. Great video!
I look forward to hearing your take!
I checked and I see it's using LD2410.
In my experience, the affective range for presence detection is about 2.5 meters.
After 2.5m, it's good only as a motion sensor.
Right on. I know the PIR sensor picks me up at 5 m. But the device tracks me to what it says is 595 centimeters. I know that the door way to my space is right at 6 meters from the device. And as soon as I step past the doorway the lights come on and it says the room is occupied. Maybe something in my environment is giving it a boost
Oh I should add I have noticed if I put my zigbee temp sensor near by the RoomSense loses connection and has to be rebooted.
@@SlackerLabs I used the bt version of the LD2410. Connected it using bt proxy.
I put it in my living room next to the TV. While sitting still on the sofa, which is about 3m away from the TV, it stopped sensing me after a short while.
Only when I moved, it noticed me again.
Yea. This one hasn’t lost me yet. When when sitting still. Well except then it goes offline. But even then it’s usually stuck with occupancy on. There could be a code component too though. And I can’t see it. But given ogle the distance calculations only update with movement I suspect there could be code to normalize the occupancy so it’s more stable. Dunno.
The case looks to be 3D printed at a quality doesn't looks to be close to normal consumer quality levels - so I assume its a 'hand' built prototype - will final versions be standard consumer quality plastics? Hiding the cable through the mounting barrel (at least as an option) would be a requirement for me. Some kind of slimline turret mount would be even more preferable to me for cleaner looks since the idea is to have one in ~each room. The install needs to be more seamless - more development needed. I do like the extra tunability in the app and from what you say it seems it works well.
Last I check they were still trying to finalize the production aspect but as soon as I hear those details I’ll pass it along.
Hmm I am really curious about the price. Since it is still in development, maybe they can add an extra USB C or power connection option on the back so that when you want to tuck the cable away, you don't have an ugly plug sticking out.
Feel a bit sorry for Lewis and hope the EP1 is not a major source of income for him. But then again this was to be expected.
This looks like pretty much the same as EP1, but smaller and maybe slightly prettier? Very curious to learn about the price.
The setup looks a lot more complicated with this one though.
Yeah, seems to be functionally almost identical to the EP1, but you have to use the web interface to change the settings, whereas the EP1 you can do it via the entities directly in home assistant. I do like the the distance 'zones' idea, which the EP1 doesnt currently have.
With the Room Sense you can change them in Home Assistant. But there you dont have the visual feedback of the changes compared to what the sensor is seeing. I dont see that functionality in the EP1. I also dont see where you can change the what motion should be detected or ignored based on distance with the EP1.
I';m about to do the setup with the EP1 and will be able to compare. From watching videos of other UA-camrs they seem similar. Although I think the ESPHome route the EP1 goes makes it a bit easier. The RoomSense team is still working on getting everything buttoned up, so I expect it will get easier.
@@SlackerLabs Cool, thank you!
@@SlackerLabshuh
Seems as though they aimed lower than Aqara did with the FP2, which may be a good thing as that one has been horribly unreliable. If this one just accurately tells when someone is or is not in the room...perfect. By the way, do you know if this one is local or if it requires internet?
All local. And yea. The FP2 didn’t work for me. I can’t get it connect to home assistant or apple home.
My fp2 works perfectly with home assistant!
@@SlackerLabs I have seen a lot of YOuTube videos on the FP2, and some of them having no issues in Home Assistant. Not sure about Apple though, I don't do anything apple.
Yeah, FP2 just works perfct with HA. There was an old FW which did not, so a simple update might solve the issue. For me it was a really good choice, because of the better area handling. Not just distance but left and right, so real zones can be created.
Yea. A firmware update kinda fixed it. It’s in home assistant at least. Need to get my video out. But it did not go well for me in the beginning
Go to www.roomsenselabs.com to sign up to get RoomSense IQ updates! And a huge thanks to RoomSense for letting me take a look.
Website link is wrong
@@thespencerowen fixed.
How does the roomsense compare to other sensors like the Aqara FP2 or Louis's (everything smart home) EP1 (Everything Presence 1)?
The EP1 is based on esp home.
I’m working on a comparison to the EP1. I couldn’t get the FP2 to talk to apple home after it connected and I couldn’t get it into home assistant after multiple tries. So in my opinion the RoomSense beats the FP2
@@SlackerLabs I look forward to seeing that
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for sharing.
I can't help but think that this is a clone of the Everything Presence 1 by fellow Home Assistance UA-camr Lewis?
It might be. I suspect it’s similar in a lot
Of ways. I need to spend some time with the EP1 to know for sure.
Yesterday I received a similar device from Athome. Works with esphome and is almost plug and play
I ave been hearing some good stuff about that one. I'm excited to see Aaron's comparison video over at Make It Work
@@SlackerLabs The Athom ar a bit simpler. They don't support areas or similar. They can just detect motion. But for simpler tasks they work great. I have one in my office and one in a bathroom. They work really well.
When triggerred on presence detection, do you get the distance of the detected presence?
Yes. It has the distance to the object it sees
It sounds like the radar is one-dimensional - it doesn't "see" in 3D or 2D even, hence you only get distance and not area pix.
I think, what makes radars revolutionary for occupancy is precisely the possibility of adding multi-dimensionality so you can make more seamless and granular / smarter automations based on people's exact placement in the room. Being "present" in, say, a loft, doesn't telegraph human intent anywhere near the same way as
- sitting down in front of a TV, or
- walking up to a record collection cabinet, or a shelf holding wine glasses or a dishwasher.
I think I can build those type of automations with this sensor. I will have to try.
I finally received my roomsense labs iq and climate. While it provides great data, do you have any idea how to disable the built-in AP and/or change its password? Seems like a huge oversite and very insecure to not disable the config AP after connecting to wifi.
Looks like they didn't sell. Their site still says they are launching.
How does it compare to the EP1...?
I actually haven't tested the EP1...mine is still in the box. But from what I know of the EP1, I suspect performance will be comparable between both. The only difference I have seen is just the level of configurability. I dont see a way on the EP1 to dial in different ones, and be able to tell the device to focus on small movement or large movement in specific zones. But again, I haven't really had a chance to tinker with it so perhaps you can. 🤦
@@SlackerLabs Whaaat? Get that thing outta the box and try it out! The EP1 is extremely customizable and even allows a fully customized ESPHome config if you want. Great video as always, but the EP1 seems to win this contest hands down, I would love to see your thoughts after using both though.
The case just came off my 3d printer. I will say. I didn’t have to put the RoomSense one together myself. Haha. I expect them to be pretty close.
Thanks for the review!
Right on. I am going to compare it to the EP1 as soon as I get that setup and going.
This looks good but how safe is it for humans to have mmWave radar constantly bouncing off the cells in our bodies? Do cells mutate and lead to cancer? Just asking the question.
I’m going to start this with, this is not my area of expertise. But from what I have read in the scientific journals the RF that can cause cancer in organs is ionizing RF and mmWave sits in non-ionizing part of the spectrum. MmWave bounces off the skin and in fact they are looking to see if it can be used to detect skin cancer. But it doesn’t penetrate the skin to organs. So I think internal organs are safe.
As a HAM operator I know if you are close enough and power output is high enough RF can burn your skin. But at the power these sensors are operating at I think your chance of getting burned is low even if you are touching the board. Unless you tinker with power.
The organ impacted by non ionizing RF is going to be skin. And again it appears mmWaves ability to penetrate past the skin appears to nonexistent. So I think organs are safe. if you raised the power through modification you might get burned though.
24ghz mmWave at the maximum allowed power has a very low absorption rate even at 5 cm. So I think these sensors are safe.
60ghz mmWave has a higher rate of skin absorption but even then in studies the waves don’t make past your skin.
So from what I can tell at the max allowed power 24ghz is safe and from the peered reviewed studies I have read it doesn’t have the ability to modify DNA.
But again, this isn’t my area of expertise so I encourage research. Just ensure the researched is focused on 24ghz mmWave frequencies and pay attention to the power and distance used in the study since both are critical variables.
the ultimate sensor, r u serious ? A few cheap ali-express sensors combined in an ugly designed 3d printed case. No Zone Positioning or Multi-Person Detection...
It’s got zone positioning. Knows exactly where you are in the room. You just have to know where your zones are. And multi person is coming in a future firmware update.
They should add espresence to this device. Then it's perfect.
That would be the killer mmWave device. I mentioned the same thing to Lewis the other day about the EP1 haha.
You'll need to make a whole video just to deal with the metric system.
Lol
Make the switch now so you're ahead of the game when imperial is finally dropped 😊
@@CountParadox I don’t think it will be dropped in my lifetime.
Only three countries in the world use imperial measurements : The United States of America, Myanmar, and Liberia!
However, in Myanmar and Liberia, the metric system has been used parallel with imperial, and both countries are on their way to completely switch on using only the metric system.
Its interesting how many copy the EP1 from Everything Smarthome. Easy to copy others
I mean I get what you are saying, but as humans isn't that what we do? We see an idea, take it, and put our own spin on it? The hardware is similar for sure but that goes for all mmWave Presence sensors. From what I can see the implementation and integration with home Assistant and the code that uses that hardware to detect presence is different. And lets be honest, I love Lewis, and bought multiples of the EP1 (about to no longer be sitting in the box) but If we want to get technical the EP1 isn't the first mmWave Presence Wave Sensor. Lewis took the idea, and made it better. I suspect we will see more variations inspired by the EP1.
@@SlackerLabs Well for install and config EP 1 is 100% easier than this new one so I stick with it. And for the moment the future of the Aqara FP2 is uncertain. For the moment the firmware page is unreachable and Amazon give a 8 usd coupon. Correlated?
This is a LD2410 radar sensor. It's literally using a $3 radar sensor, a $10 dollar esp and maybe $5 of light, humidityand pir sensor. Even the distance software is a re-skinn of the ld2410 dev software.
More of a scam than the EP1 (at least that has an expensive radar sensor, but honestly not worth the price versus fp2)
Advanced sensor fusion techniques and custom post-processing of sensors raw data are implemented to enhance reliability of the device and significantly reduce the occurrence of false alarms.
What's up with your speech during the narrated sections? Sounds like you cut together words from previous videos or something, really strange 🤔
Just recorded at different times and haven't really got everything figured out in this new space with my audio so most of that is me making adjustments each time I record at the desk. Hopefully the next time it won't be so crazy...
I'll stick with my DIY LD2410C mmWave sensor connected to a ESP32 which depending on the room also has BME280 for temp & humidity, a BH1750 LUX (light sensor). Also on certain packages i added a button and/or Rotary encoder for light brightness and dimming/brightening and On/Off functionality. Also whoever 3D printed that case needs to seriously bed level that printer. That has to be one of the worse 3D printed objects I've seen for a while.
This sounds awesome, do you have a link to doing a project like this?
@@Obtuse94 I have several links it's done with ESPHome add-on in home assistant. Unfortunately we can't leave links in another persons you tube channel.
Sure but not going to be able to get the exposed cable past my wife so it's not going to happen
"Promo sm"
No mm waves for me... EVER😢
cringe
What is the reason behind your statement?
@@pimw9805 mm waves are dangerous to living things... Just do some searches, even Google will show you. We can't hide from what they do but we need not willingly bring this crap into our lives. There are creative ways to get there without mm waves...
@@pimw9805they're scared of the 5gs and lizard people
You out every imaginable related link in your comments. Except for RoomSense.
Power on an edge is just ugly - it should be powered from the back of the case.
Yea that does seem like a better design. Not sure how complicated that would be to move. Electrical engineering is not my area of expertise. But I agree. Design wise I think that would make these things easier to mount and look better.
Sorry, the power requirements (the cord) kill it for me.
Awesome!! Love that power cord!!
I'll take the cord. Deal with it once to hide or camouflage the cord, and then don't have to keep feeding it batteries.
If at least the plug were at the back 🙄
@@gzoechi Spot on! Can’t win them all??
I agree. I don't want to be running cables up walls and have unsightly cables. A long life battery option is a must have for me