Another point - you can get IIMC-like situations by flying at night over sparsely populated areas (desert/water) with no/low moon illumination - you will have no horizon for reference. White-out is similar when flying over snow covered areas with overcast conditions during the day.
Thank you very much for this video! This topic really needs to be out there, put deep into every helicopter pilot’s head. I unfortunately know too many people who crashed exactly because of this. And once I was myself flying with a widely-known “very careful” pilot, who started “scudding” as you called it, flying barely above treetops to see if we could get past some dense clouds, in an area he hadn’t been to before. Luckily we did get through that time, but it was an excellent example of bad decision making that I found myself part of.
I'd also add, many light VFR training helicopters like the R22, usually don't even have an artificial horizon, turn coordinator or stabilized compass. So, even with an experienced instrument rated (and current) pilot at the controls, IIMC would be a death-sentence for most.
Eg the standard instrument list of a R22 Beta II on the robinson website is Airspeed indicator, Altimeter, Rotor/engine dual tachometer, Manifold pressure gage, Vertical speed indicator, Magnetic compass, Gage panel and Ammeter, Carburetor temperature gage, Oil Temp and Pressure gages, Cylinder head temp gage, Fuel gages, Digital OAT gage/voltmeter, Hourmeter, Quartz clock
Don't climb. Slow down and make a left or right 180 degree turn (practice which feels better for you while under the hood). Max 15 degree bank. Slowing down reduces the radius of the turn and you should find yourself in VMC again.
I recommend you guys refer to the accident happened in 2013, Seoul ROK. LG helicopter S-76C crashed the apartment in the middle of downtown in Seoul due to low visibility and IIMC.
I remember watching your “Becoming an Army Aviator” a couple of years ago. Your videos have been a tremendous help through flight school. Currently a few weeks from Selection. Would you consider doing a video on considerations going into selection, what the best airframe is and why it’s the Apache, or things you wish you knew before selecting the Apache?
I think a lot of it comes down to the hunting mentality for recon/attack. It’s not for everyone and honesty if you’re not sure you want Apache, you probably won’t fit in. But all airframes are great. I’m partial to mine and the 47’s because they do most of the missions. 60’s only hauled people and mail on my last deployment while apaches covered the chinooks doing the assaults. Biggest advice is consider the mission you want. Select the mission, not the airframe. But I’ll see what kind of video I can put out that doesn’t violate any Army disclosure policies. Thanks for the feedback!
Glad you're back to making videos, found your videos while I was down at Rucker. Maybe a quick class on holding? Entries, determining outbound time, determining station passage, other rules of thumb etc.
My personal opinion on Go/No Go is an anticipated ceiling of at least 500' over MSA for the entire route as well as contingency routes. And of course good visibility, regardless of ceiling. I'm not the pilot, but I don't like to be less than 500' above the nearest object within 10nm in any direction when we're not on approach or departure. I have the luxury of working near sea level, though...
Im private pilot (fixed wing instrument). Question for helicopter pilots. I came across COPTER instrument approach plates that made me wonder; why (in IMC) not just arrive to an airport at safe altitude, hover exactly above airport then slowly land. Why travel forward on a descent path like an airplane risking CFIT? Obviously in fixed wing airplanes we have no other option. Im guessing it might be due to the fact that its harder to hover than to fly forward. But im only guessing. Someone provide answer please. Thank you.
The only comment I would have is that climbing to avoid terrain features in such conditions increases the risk of icing . Perhaps this is more of a problem to carburettor-fitted, non-rotary wing aircraft but the hazard does exist.
So that is a great point, it doesn't just effect carbureted aircraft, we experience icing like any other aircraft. I recently watched a video of an RV going IIMC and he lost airspeed shortly after punching in when his pitot tube froze. For us in the 60 if we lose airspeed our stabilator will slew full down which is a bad day, that is why I at a minimum turn on pitot heat anytime I am in the clouds regardless of temps.
@@craig3665 I see you're a pilot so allow me to ask a question. Have you ever experienced IIMC personally? If so (it really doesn't matter if you haven't but it'd help me better relate if you had) would you say going from VFR to IFR is seamless mentally? I don't mean like fighting your body I mean like when you're using visual references your brain is processing the information directly from itself, your eyes if that makes sense, as compared to when you're checking instruments to ensure stable flight . Is there some "lag" where you feel like normally if I pulled collective by this much in VMC I'd get this measure of response within x amount of time and now that I'm IMC it feels "sluggish". Is there such a feeling? Because, as a future heli pilot, this is what scares me the most about IIMC.
@@DerickMasai I've transitioned from VMC to IIMC and had to go 'scud running' for a very short period. It isn't seamless - It is a positive decision to press on into IMC. In my case I knew that it would only be for 30 seconds because I had information from a ground station. Added to which, every pilot does some instrument training as part of the basic qualification. RW pilots also do rather more training on disorientation [for example in the Barani Chair] and discover that they have to learn to trust their instruments - even in VMC.
@@arunsharma-dx4yn Aaah very interesting to hear from pilots with experience. Okay. So, when you entered IMC and transitioned to IFR did you get the feeling I'm describing where it just feels slower because prior to it, in VMC, you had visual references so your brain is just processing faster as compared to now checking instruments every few seconds, adjusting a bit then checking to see the results? Hope I'm making sense.
@@DerickMasai All your efforts are directed to one thing - and that is 'fly the aircraft'. You stop worrying about what else might happen and just concentrate on keeping the aircraft moving at the altitude you believe to be safe. Pilots in VMC tend to look at the horizon and [in level flight] keep that at a certain vertical level on the windscreen rather than continuously referring to the AI or VSI. However, when approaching IMC, the horizon is no longer horizontal because clouds don't have straight edges so it is important to check your instruments and ensure that the aircraft is properly trimmed in 3 axis before entering IMC. I suspect that fiddling with the trim wheel once in IMC is a guaranteed route to disaster.
If you see IMC conditions in front of you, Turn around, don't drown. I know, it's cliché, what's the rush?? Most times, it not a life or death mission, til your ass crashes...
When he said that the NTSB stood for "National Training Safety Board", I was out. I lost all confidence that what he was telling me was correct. I mean, that's pretty basic
Another point - you can get IIMC-like situations by flying at night over sparsely populated areas (desert/water) with no/low moon illumination - you will have no horizon for reference. White-out is similar when flying over snow covered areas with overcast conditions during the day.
Thank you very much for this video! This topic really needs to be out there, put deep into every helicopter pilot’s head. I unfortunately know too many people who crashed exactly because of this. And once I was myself flying with a widely-known “very careful” pilot, who started “scudding” as you called it, flying barely above treetops to see if we could get past some dense clouds, in an area he hadn’t been to before. Luckily we did get through that time, but it was an excellent example of bad decision making that I found myself part of.
Thanks, Jacob. Your videos have been really helpful everytime I feel like I wanna go thru the classes I took before.
I'd also add, many light VFR training helicopters like the R22, usually don't even have an artificial horizon, turn coordinator or stabilized compass. So, even with an experienced instrument rated (and current) pilot at the controls, IIMC would be a death-sentence for most.
R22 has instruments what are you talking about
@@JohnBrown-vn2qw Not all, eg the R44 cadet I fly doesn't. It's optional equipment at purchase.
Eg the standard instrument list of a R22 Beta II on the robinson website is
Airspeed indicator,
Altimeter, Rotor/engine dual tachometer, Manifold pressure gage, Vertical speed indicator, Magnetic compass, Gage panel and Ammeter, Carburetor temperature gage, Oil Temp and Pressure gages, Cylinder head temp gage, Fuel gages, Digital OAT gage/voltmeter, Hourmeter, Quartz clock
@@glennwatson As you say, it doesn't include artificial horizon
@@JohnBrown-vn2qw Yes, it does have basic VFR instruments, but by default it does not have instruments required to survive IIMC.
Don't climb. Slow down and make a left or right 180 degree turn (practice which feels better for you while under the hood). Max 15 degree bank. Slowing down reduces the radius of the turn and you should find yourself in VMC again.
Great work! As an army aviator too I suggest you to make a video for approach angles (normal, steep, shallow)
This topic really hits home for me....
Very informative as always!
I recommend you guys refer to the accident happened in 2013, Seoul ROK. LG helicopter S-76C crashed the apartment in the middle of downtown in Seoul due to low visibility and IIMC.
That’s a wild story and another instance where pushing weather and going forward into degrading visibility results in catastrophic events.
Thank you. Your videos are excellent and continue to help me in an efficient and meaningful way. Thank you.
Good video
I remember watching your “Becoming an Army Aviator” a couple of years ago. Your videos have been a tremendous help through flight school. Currently a few weeks from Selection. Would you consider doing a video on considerations going into selection, what the best airframe is and why it’s the Apache, or things you wish you knew before selecting the Apache?
I think a lot of it comes down to the hunting mentality for recon/attack. It’s not for everyone and honesty if you’re not sure you want Apache, you probably won’t fit in. But all airframes are great. I’m partial to mine and the 47’s because they do most of the missions. 60’s only hauled people and mail on my last deployment while apaches covered the chinooks doing the assaults. Biggest advice is consider the mission you want. Select the mission, not the airframe. But I’ll see what kind of video I can put out that doesn’t violate any Army disclosure policies. Thanks for the feedback!
@@helicopterlessonsin10minut10
Would you do a video about coaxial rotor system especially about the yaw control of it how and why?
Sure thing. I’ll add it to the list.
Nice video … very educative… I think IIMC needs a course 👌🚁
Please explain concept of inherent sideslip in helicopter
Sorry for out of topic question?
Glad you're back to making videos, found your videos while I was down at Rucker. Maybe a quick class on holding? Entries, determining outbound time, determining station passage, other rules of thumb etc.
Im new here but I wonder why you wouldnt stop to a hover until you have collected yourself to proceed? Thank you.
Yeah stop to Hover and go back the way you came.
My personal opinion on Go/No Go is an anticipated ceiling of at least 500' over MSA for the entire route as well as contingency routes. And of course good visibility, regardless of ceiling.
I'm not the pilot, but I don't like to be less than 500' above the nearest object within 10nm in any direction when we're not on approach or departure. I have the luxury of working near sea level, though...
Please explain dynamic lift overshoot urgent
I’ll add that topic to the list. Thanks for the feedback!
Im private pilot (fixed wing instrument). Question for helicopter pilots. I came across COPTER instrument approach plates that made me wonder; why (in IMC) not just arrive to an airport at safe altitude, hover exactly above airport then slowly land. Why travel forward on a descent path like an airplane risking CFIT? Obviously in fixed wing airplanes we have no other option.
Im guessing it might be due to the fact that its harder to hover than to fly forward. But im only guessing. Someone provide answer please. Thank you.
Pray 🙏
If you can possibly put it down, then put it down asap, until you can resume safe VFR.
The only comment I would have is that climbing to avoid terrain features in such conditions increases the risk of icing . Perhaps this is more of a problem to carburettor-fitted, non-rotary wing aircraft but the hazard does exist.
So that is a great point, it doesn't just effect carbureted aircraft, we experience icing like any other aircraft. I recently watched a video of an RV going IIMC and he lost airspeed shortly after punching in when his pitot tube froze. For us in the 60 if we lose airspeed our stabilator will slew full down which is a bad day, that is why I at a minimum turn on pitot heat anytime I am in the clouds regardless of temps.
@@craig3665 I see you're a pilot so allow me to ask a question. Have you ever experienced IIMC personally? If so (it really doesn't matter if you haven't but it'd help me better relate if you had) would you say going from VFR to IFR is seamless mentally? I don't mean like fighting your body I mean like when you're using visual references your brain is processing the information directly from itself, your eyes if that makes sense, as compared to when you're checking instruments to ensure stable flight . Is there some "lag" where you feel like normally if I pulled collective by this much in VMC I'd get this measure of response within x amount of time and now that I'm IMC it feels "sluggish". Is there such a feeling? Because, as a future heli pilot, this is what scares me the most about IIMC.
@@DerickMasai I've transitioned from VMC to IIMC and had to go 'scud running' for a very short period. It isn't seamless - It is a positive decision to press on into IMC. In my case I knew that it would only be for 30 seconds because I had information from a ground station. Added to which, every pilot does some instrument training as part of the basic qualification. RW pilots also do rather more training on disorientation [for example in the Barani Chair] and discover that they have to learn to trust their instruments - even in VMC.
@@arunsharma-dx4yn Aaah very interesting to hear from pilots with experience. Okay. So, when you entered IMC and transitioned to IFR did you get the feeling I'm describing where it just feels slower because prior to it, in VMC, you had visual references so your brain is just processing faster as compared to now checking instruments every few seconds, adjusting a bit then checking to see the results? Hope I'm making sense.
@@DerickMasai All your efforts are directed to one thing - and that is 'fly the aircraft'. You stop worrying about what else might happen and just concentrate on keeping the aircraft moving at the altitude you believe to be safe.
Pilots in VMC tend to look at the horizon and [in level flight] keep that at a certain vertical level on the windscreen rather than continuously referring to the AI or VSI. However, when approaching IMC, the horizon is no longer horizontal because clouds don't have straight edges so it is important to check your instruments and ensure that the aircraft is properly trimmed in 3 axis before entering IMC.
I suspect that fiddling with the trim wheel once in IMC is a guaranteed route to disaster.
Charts altitude winds
Hope this works..
What if the weather takes a turn for the worse and you go into a hover knowing there’s no obstacles around?
To manually hover in IIMC conditions is almost impossible. No visibility. No flight instruments to assist (speed at a min).
Spacial disorientation is one hell of a feeling
IIMC is real easy to get into and real hard to get out of . Just dont do it
Radar altimeter too bad. Yes sir
If you see IMC conditions in front of you,
Turn around, don't drown. I know, it's cliché,
what's the rush?? Most times, it not a life or death mission, til your ass crashes...
🙃
land.
When he said that the NTSB stood for "National Training Safety Board", I was out. I lost all confidence that what he was telling me was correct. I mean, that's pretty basic
I'm pretty sure he knows it's "Transport". Just a slip up. We all do that.