The issue is the inconsistent grading from different buyers. I’ve bought fines that are very fine and I’ve bought fines that are very good at best. So the slab at least is more of a guarantee of condition.
A raw book should at the very least be discounted by the cost of grading the book, otherwise, the raw copy is technically more expensive than the graded copy.
To answer your question, you have the right to price a comic as a 9.4 after it’s been graded and slabbed a 9.4 (and after you’ve invested the cost of grading in the book).
A dealer cannot price a raw book at a graded price. The fact that the book is graded by an impartial party is part of how much a book is worth. The dealer cannot include that part of the equation in his price because, just like the buyer, the dealer is self-interested. This is why third party grading is so coveted.
Might I add this is why key collector uses raw grades and not graded because they are different. Pretty easy. Stop charging extra when you don’t go through the hassle of grading. Plus the book is protected. How is this a conversation?
Unfortunately Key Collector's raw prices, in most cases, are pretty far off from reality. This is partly due to the fact that it's probably hard to keep up with the price fluctuations, since they most likely don't have any kind of automated feed into their system that would update the prices regularly. I've seen plenty of books on Key Collector priced the same for the last 3 years, but the actual prices have fluctuated dramatically. There are also plenty of prices on Key Collector for raw books that are actually greater than what the same graded copy sells for.
It’s simple algebra… Cost of raw book (in the suggested condition) + Cost for grading/encapsulation + Relative value of the sellers time / shipping = $ of slabbed book
Raw books are always a gamble, hence the higher pricing on a graded one. You are guaranteeing a certain level of quality. My last 2 shows I had dealers asking prices for raw book based on graded value. Not surprisingly they both had the books still hanging around after the show. I was trying to pick up a Star Wars 68 and one dealer said, "If you get it pressed and graded, it will probably come back 9.6, so $600." Wait, you want to charge me based on the possible final grade IF I press and grade it? Thant's not how this works. That is the nature of these things tho. Dealers will always over-value their books when selling and under value yours when they're buying. This is why we negotiate. But it all matters where the starting point is for me. Ultimately, I'd rather buy raw and press and grade them myself than pay for an already slabbed book. But I won't spend slabbed money on a raw book. Ever.
I had a similar experience where I purchased some books on ebay that were graded at a 9.6 or better. When I got them, they were clearly over graded by 2 to 3 grades. When I messaged the dealer about it, their reply was that the 9.6 was a grade that these books would end up in after a clean and press. It was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I returned all the books, so no harm done in the end. But, how do dealers come up with this twisted logic to begin with?
@lukelandwalker2920 Exactly. I mainly collect raw books. I will not clean or press any of my books due to the cost and time. I'm not trying to flip books for a grade. Just trying to collect for fun. I don't get why some sellers do this. If I wanted to get a 9.6 I will just buy one not take a gamble by spending 9.6 money to then have to clean, press and then incurre more cost to grade. Just a way for seller to get over on you. Thankfully I've only had positive experiences so far. But if sellers want to charge graded prices they should go and get their books cleaned pressed and graded. This applies to most books 90% of collectors will grab.
@Fireguyryan you're 100% correct in my opinion. Raw books are not guaranteed as adversed.. CGC is one of the "authorities" in grading which really creats the market for graded comics. I would never pay CGC prices a Raw book.
For an older comic I believe same price is ok, but the most I would dish out for is a 9.0 without the grading company. Open the book wrong, small slip of the hand, transport was rough, you sneeze and 1,000 meatballs go in for the kill! No more 9.8!!!! If a dealer tried to sell a new book with cgc prices I would piss on his left shoe. All joking aside tho, a dealer could price his book as high or low as they want. Until I throw legal tender at someone the book is not mine. If I don’t like a dealer or shop, I just won’t purchase my stuff there.
Although we all bitch about CGC grading, I still would trust their grading over some random dude off of e-bay. A 9.4 graded comic is worth more than a raw book in most instances just for the peace of mind. If the 9.4 raw book looks better than the graded 9.4, then it probably would grade at a 9.6 (or higher) and wasn't really a "9.4" in the first place. Great discussion guys!
There are different price guide services that post current market prices for slabbed vs raw books, so the community has already grown accustomed to expecting raw comics to be sold for less than a graded book.
Never pay graded prices for raw books. If you’re selling raw you have to expect a haircut on the graded price. Always a gamble on raws.when it’s raw it’s a comic book, when it’s slabbed it’s got a stronger shot at being an investment collectible.
If the raw grade is accurate or in the ball park, the fair thing to do is subtract the price of grading the book from the final price.. If a graded 9.8 NM 98 is $550 at the time, and the dealer gives me a $30-$50 discount, I’d buy the book. By the time I get the book back from grading there’s a (logical) chance the book would have increased in value.. Not by a lot, but money is not lost, and both the buyer and seller would be content.
When you try to locate a genuinely rare book where it only comes up for sale only 6 to 12 months in any grade, you start to realize that the dealer is more important than the individual buyer. Without the dealer, the buyer has nothing to buy. Ford motor company created the demand for cars. Consumers did not create that demand. The dealer created the market that previously did not exist. This happens in comics too.
You aren't just paying for the grade, but for the preservation of the grade. You can leave the store with a raw 9.4, but by the time you get home it's an 8.5.
The cost of slabbing a raw I think does two things in price increase. One: cost of slabbing, and two: the accepted value of a book once slabbed. Even with consist dirty grading by a dealer taken into consideration, to price them equally does not feel right. To prove a little above fmv of a raw book can be acceptable. However, as collectors and dealers alike, the third party grading leaves little argument for price.
Pricing at a graded price is the most ridiculous thing that Ive ever heard Jeff say. When your are selling a raw book and selling it at a graded price, then you as the seller should have some accountability and put your money where your mouth is. If you sell a graded book that gets submitted with a returns with a lower grade, then back your words up and give a full financial guarantee, otherwise don't grade it. One more point, for insurance purposes a actual graded book will be covered far better than a ungraded book if ever a claim was needed to be made.
A raw copy should be less than a graded copy based on there is no guarantee on your graded raw copy, plus there is a cost involved with the graded copy and there is no speculation with a graded copy, it is what it is. Therefor the time, effort, cost, and guarantee of what you are buying in a graded copy should be an extra cost or premium vs a raw.
The cost for a grade is an extra expense. A raw book should never be what a slabbed book goes for. I have bought books at a grade & sent it in & have NEVER got the grade posted by the dealer. It usually ends at least 1 full grade less. Raw should be at least 3/4 the cost of a slabbed if not less.
Um, labor theory of value (a pretty basic concept in economics) is that an encapsulated/graded book has more trade value than the same book raw. Simple as that. The materials, skills, & work that go into grading & encapsulating a comic increase the trade value because those books are protected, preserved, & all aspects of what make it a collectible are frozen in time -- thus giving it a higher trade value in a collectibles market. That's just a basic of econ. You can't sell a raw book at the same price of a graded/encapsulated one unless the _trade value_ of both are equal. In which case why bother encapsulating it at all? Putting all that extra work & all of those extra resources/materials into a collectible only for it to keep its value beforehand? Makes no sense. Bear in mind anyone can _price_ a book however they want, but that doesn't mean the book suddenly carries that figure in _value_ or that it _costs_ that much to actually get the same book elsewhere. Value, cost, & price are all different things. You can price a book whatever you want, go ahead -- that doesn't mean anyone's gonna buy it. Especially if the price is higher than the actual value. Price doesn't determine value, labor does. Skills, time, energy, etc. Also use value vs. trade value is a real thing. You can trade any comic book, raw or encapsulated, but you can't "use" (i.e. read) an encapsulated one. Use value vs. trade value can be a complicated struggle.
If the cost for the books are the same, it’s a no brainer to go with the graded copy…so just wait to find a graded copy or pay a little extra for a 9.6
That actually depends on what you as a collector want. Not everyone wants a graded/encapsulated book 🤷 also it's the _price_ you're referring to, not the _cost_ or _value_ -- all 3 represent a different set of factors. Refer to my comment where I briefly touched on "trade value". All comics have trade value, but only raw books have use value. You can't read a graded comic book. Therefore their prices should be (in theory) different.
I hate when people upcharge and tell you that if you get it graded, it will be worth more; in fact, the price they want is graded pricing. Someone, please stop the 55-year-old scheme artists.
I have a first appearance of Ras Al Ghul it's beautiful. Perfect. I would not let it go for a price where I would be screwed just because it's not in a slab.
If you're a dealer who thinks you should be trusted to grade accurately and you're right, you'll be rewarded by retaining loyal customers who are willing to pay more for your raw books than an unknown dealer's raw books because you've established trust. You can earn the right to lower your spread between graded and raw prices but that spread won't ever go to $0.
Very good and possibly important conversation. Buying graded books does take the guess work out of what the comic presents as (even though comics do get regraded sometimes higher or lower than before) and as a result it seems the market is easier to navigate for graded books. At my local LCS they have many excellent modern books that they guarantee are 9.2 or better (but sell at cover price since they are brand new). Though all the older books (all are raw) are absolutely open to negotiation. We both look at recent sales etc and even then I get, to me, some excellent deals. I think this topic warrants further discussion. Thanks for bringing it up
I think this is because collectors use sites such as gocollect, and they jump to the graded values to determine price, so that is where dealers naturally follow
Great Convo, as someone who doesn’t like slabs and has cracked out 100+ graded books I can guarantee the grades and pg quality slab guys think they’re getting is definitely questionable and inconsistent. With that said there’s many dealers I buy from who’s grading expertise I trust more than cgc/cbcs and have no problem buying raw from them at slab like prices 💯
A dealer should really be able to communicate the quality level of their books if they are charging CGC prices. They better be very detailed and articulate in their explanation.
I buy raw but still get sellers trying to upsell it at graded prices. At that point i just walk away. Ill never turn down a 9.4 raw unless they try to sell it at a 9.8 price!😂
A raw 9.4 can also come back a graded 9.6 , which has happened to me several times. 2 9.6s came back 9.8s this week. Then again a 9.0 came back an 8.5 , Who cares what dealers do. If you don't Iike it then don't buy it.
It makes sense that grades books have a higher value. I'm heavily into Funko pops and it's normal for graded pops to go for twice as much as non-graded pops.
Slabs gurantee condition but buyers all grade different and they put prices they feel reflect the book. If I don't agree with price will haggle if I really want they book. If they don't lower price I just go to the next dealer. Same for online.
It's people trying to get their money's worth. How bout you sell insurance on that price point based on your grading!?!? Give me some of my money back if it comes back lower.
Since when do raw books get CGC grades without actually being graded? What happened to the Basic Grading Scale, like NM VF, FN, VG, GD etc...??? I believe raw books should be held to the Basic Grading Scale and the Ten Point Grading Scale should only be used for graded slabbed books...just my opinion! 😅😂😅
I am not seeing your point. These scales are one and the same. A NM is a 9.4 and 9.4 is NM. There is actually no reason to have 2 different scales that represent the same thing. We should just move over to the numeric scale as it's far more clear in it's intent.
As I am looking for high grade Daredevil’s 131 & 168 raw,the prices on these are a good example of pricing raw at graded prices & Higher! I under grade mid & lower grade silver any big keys I get graded in any grade.
I feel like the right thing to do, for high grade moderns at least, is to price the book with enough wiggle room that IF a buyer is to get it graded there's enough to make it worth getting it graded. NOT.ALL. BOOKS. SHOULD. GET. GRADED. THOUGH. All it takes is a 9.4 raw book even WITH wiggle room to get an upset grade of 9.0 and the investment doesn't really work. Grading is always a risk
Been to a small comicbook shop a few months ago, the seller was selling a raw copy of 1993 Spawn #9 first appearance of Angela, Medieval Spawn and Cogliostro, for $100.00 dollars displayed on the wall. The comicbook looks like a good condition book but i said to myself, "No way that Spawn #9 is worth $100.00 dollars, i wouldn't pay for that." Which to me is preposterous given the fact that comicbook isn't worth that much unless it was graded which it wasn't. And true no raw copy cannot match to a graded book when there's no guaranteed a raw book to be sent to a reputable graded company will come back to a high grade standard as one would think it will when in reality it won't, depending of course the condition and the shape of the book it may be in which is a risk. Nice review.
I’m with Ryan on this one. I just want to read comics. The whole grading thing only makes sense for major keys. Otherwise it’s just pointless other than to make more money. Which to me hurts the hobby because it shouldn’t be about making more money off a book just because it has a variant cover. It’s so lame.
@@fireguyryan9362 I get the conversations just find grading pointless. Unless it’s like an Action Comics #1 then I get it. But grading a book because it’s a 1:100 cover is just sad. And it just locks a book up that will never be read.
To me through my store, Raw books get the Old School grading (FINE, VF, NM etc) slabbed books get the 9.6 9.8 grading.... grading ends up being a personal preference in the end for the RAW material. RAW books DON'T Graded Prices... they are two different market places.
The biggest problem with this issue is that an overwhelming majority of the dealers over grade their books. I've purchased thousands of raw books on ebay and about 85% of them are over graded by 2 or more grades. After a while this is something that I've come to expect and factor that into my purchasing price. So, if I see a books advertised as a 9.4 raw, I will automatically assume that it will be a 9.0 and as a result will not go higher than the market value for a raw 9.0. This way I am rarely disappointed in the grade I receive the book in. In the few cases where I argued the grade with the dealer because I requested a return, I always try to make a bet with the dealer. I tell them that they can take that book and send it in to get it graded. If the book gets graded one grade below what they advertised, or higher, I will pay for their certification fee and on top of that I will give them an additional $100 for their troubles. If the book comes back two grades below what they advertised (or lower), they should let me get the book for half price. Never did I get a reply or any further arguments from these dealers.
I would say the lower the price of the book, it isn't going to matter as much, but to price a higher end book the same as an encapsulated book is assuming the person is 100% accurate. That is where I think you don't grade by 9.8, 9.6, 9.4 but Mint, Near Mint, Very Fine, etc......because unless you're going to guarantee that grade, you should price a little lower than a graded book. The graded book is already done, you're speculating that is the grade that book is. I've seen plenty of these videos to know that the books don't always come back what the person thought, no matter how good they are at grading. Now, that being said, if you see the book and you think the price is fair and you want it, then you're probably going to pay it anyway. But to assume that you can price the book at the same price as an already graded price to me is just silly, because it's almost like you're saying your grading, your word and everything else is better than CGC and CBCS, which is presumptuous. A book that's already graded probably has a higher trade value, and less likely to be argued about because it is already graded. I've had discussions with dealers who "graded" their books and I said, well what about this or this on the book, and they said 'oh I missed that', or didn't see that. I just bought a book the other day, with no description about the book at all, and got it home and the whole center of the book fell out, so I had to return it. Store has been around forever, so I thought if there would be issues with the book, they would put a little sticker on the outside to tell you if anything was wrong. At the end of the day, it all comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with the price you're willing to pay....and if the person grading it is willing to move a little bit.
Your paying for the hassle of grading as well. I don’t know why that isn’t brought up. It’s subjective just like your opinion on what a 9.4 is. It’s cost money and is a hassle. Your eyeball is free but isn’t perfect either. So why pay more for your eyeball?
Its a No for me. For me personally Raw would be less than same in Graded form. Graded brings with it the guarantee and cost of slabbing. Just my personal opinion.
So I’ve been asking myself this question as well after I came across an interesting scenario; what if a book has a low census count (let’s say 50 books with 9.4 making up 20% of graded copies with only 10% being higher than 9.4). Is a raw high grade actually better because of such a low census and potential higher market opportunity due to low available supply? I would say in most cases if the issue has some significance. For example, I’m completing a taskmaster run, any book he has a cover appearance before 2002. Well there aren’t many amazing Spider-Man 308s or 366s. As time progresses anyone that wants taskmaster related books will stumble on this same conundrum but now you have the answer because you slabbed your best raw that cost 10-20% a slabbed version. That’s just how I’m thinking but definitely takes on more risk and time. It would have to be a very carefully chosen issue/list while having multiples. Curious of everyone else’s thoughts. Am I overthinking this? Or is reasonable risk management?
Thank you Ryan, I also just want to read my comics. And didn't this video show the flaw of grading comics? If you have two copies of the same comic both graded, one a 6.0 the other a 6.5 but the 6.0 presents better wouldn't you rather have that? Sure the 6.5 has whiter pages with no flaws while the 6.0 has yellow pages, some have been dog eared and a previous owner marked the interior somehow but the 6.0 has a better looking cover. Once slabbed isn't the only important thing really the look of the cover and how it presents in the slab? And the interior is like Schrodinger's Cat, it may or may not be as described, the only way to find out is by opening the slab.
1. Once your comic holds value it’s an investment you wanna protect that investment and get it graded and case so you can get top dollar when you wanna sell. 2. Buy low sell high . People don’t want to let go of high grade raw keys anymore For cheap . You shouldn’t be financial penalized for selling high grade book if the buyer wants to go get it graded 3. The product the same it should mirror in value regardless the cost of service. All books are equal based off condition ergo 4. Buyer beware (and There’s sucker born every second). Best show ever
I guess it depends on whether it's online or in person. I would have a hard time paying 200 bucks for a raw Secret Wars #8 on E=bay vs one that is slabbed already.
Random, but I saw a uk Spiderman #1 on ebay a while back, that's the oversize reprint from the 70's at NM, not only was the joker attempting to price it like it was an American book but I seriously think he overestimated the grade by 7-or 8 points. It was the worst NM I have ever seen.
I agree a seller can price however he wants, but I also agree the seller can sit on his book forever and never sell it. If a person sells raw at graded prices, they deserve to never sell anything.
one of the stores i deal with price w/sold items off net n then subtract the amt of slab, but w/lower priced stuff, i dunno.......... kinda like reading them myself, so i prefer buying raw.....too.
If you want to sell it for graded price, then get it graded. If not, at least acknowledge the cost of slabbing. If a book is worth about $250 as a graded 6.0, then a raw at that grade should sell for about $200.
come on guys, this is a no-brainer. It's a bit disrespectful to price a raw book like a slabbed book, especially if it's a raw modern. Now there are exceptions to the rule. If it's a modern blue chip key, then SURE, people are going to be willing to pay or bid high on those books especially if its clear it's a higher grade. But with rates as high as they are now on grading and shipping books most collectors and buyers can feel like it's robbery. This is why top dollar is asked at cons because at least you're purchasing in person and the buyer has the right to make that decision and start the barter process. And the older and significant the book, the price becomes more concrete. But the art of the barter will always be in play. It should always be fun and always a place where people can feel like they may be getting a decent deal, whether buying or selling. Love you guys 🤟🏼
CGC grade books are considered proof of the grade. It can cost 100$ and up to get it graded. Raw comics silver/gold are the only one think about and they would need a major reputation.
I think you should be able to charge the same minus the grading fees. So around 70 dollars less. Otherwise the graded book is overpriced if its more than 70 in price and for dealers grading is even cheaper.
Take a silver age book, it's graded at a 5.0 but severely sun faded or a raw book at the same grade that's not sun faded. I'm taking the raw book at the same grade
Yeah most of the time (99%) you're gonna pay less for a raw copy, not only because there's risk involved (maybe they over-graded, there's a defect that went unnoticed, etc..) but also the price of getting the book graded and the TIME it takes to get it graded(that ain't free because you're getting it now when buying it already graded). I call it "swinging for the fences" when I buy a pricey high-grade raw book hoping it'll come back a high 9.? or whatever when I send it in. There's always a risk in Raw books and that's why they are priced less. I've hit home-runs and struck-out many times with raw books, it's a learning experience for sure. I think the only time you can charge the same price for a raw as a graded book is if the book is extremely scarce, in that case I can understand paying the premium. Some books only come up for sale so often but again, I'd want to see it in person first as Jeff said.
Mile High prices are expensive as hell.....they should of opened up their own graded service.....I used to buy from them in the 80's from their 50 cents and dollar comics adds
Not only are they expensive, but they are seriously over graded. I used to order from them in the 80's as a kid. Anything that I purchased that was advertised as NM was never higher than a VF-. Once ebay came around I never purchased from then again.
I'll always prefer raw copies of books over graded however I have purchased a few when the price was right. Grading raw books for a personal collection is one thing however if you plan on selling your books it becomes a tricky thing as it so subjective. In my opinion an estimated VF+ raw book is an amazing looking book and displays well, whereas I find the graded copy (8.5) doesn't have the same curb appeal as the raw VF+ book. The price for a raw should be less than a graded book just because of the slab cost, although it shouldn't be a huge difference.
My opinion is that you shouldn't price raw books the same as graded books. The dealer may say it's a 9.4 but what happens when you submit it and it comes back less than a 9.4? Is the golden guru going to compensate me for his wrong grading? No I have to take the loss on the book. Then it puts me spending more on the book than its worth.
It is never ok to put a non graded book at the same price as a none graded book because you have to add how much it is to get graded….I hate dealers that price there books even higher than what it says it should be in the over street at a 9.8…I just saw a 9.6 number 2 spiderverse almost double what a 9.6 graded book was….that’s why I don’t buy from there….the only reason I go there is because they send my raw books out to get graded….it makes me so angry because your taking advantage of the people who buy and it makes me so frustrated because you want to have respect for both seller and buyer
The subjective assessment and assignment of value to the "grade and condition" of most modern comic books is everything that is wrong with the hobby. Speculating on the future value, forced scarcity, and the farce that is CGC would turn me off from ever buying or selling anything in the comic book market as a possible "investment" today. It's just not worth the headache or the hassle to even assign a grade to something that is so subjective. Set your price, describe the condition as truthfully as possible, and sell the books as ungraded, and let the buyers decide if it is worth the asking price or not 🤷♂️
I always rate raw comics by CGC grands and resist sell but it will always be 40-100$ less for the buyer, but you can price “Your” comics however you want. If you don’t wanna buy that comic for that price then find one for a price your comfortable with. That simple
The price of shipping and grading is far from being the only difference. The biggest difference is the established standard that CGC (or CBCS) provides. This is the main reason why most graded books sell for far more than comparable raw books.
I do have a problem paying the same price for a raw book as what it would be with a sure fire grade on it from a company like cgc. Here is why. The other day I was in a shop and they had a hulk 180 raw for 500 bucks the guy tried to tell me it was about a 5.0😂 well if you know anything and I know little I’m not a full blown master at grading but you would know that a book that has a chuck taken out from the bottom of the cover and not just that but that same chuck going trough pages as well you will know that’s not going to make that grade at a company like cgc. My point is if the book is raw almost always people try to give it a higher grade then what it is so they can get bigger prices. I’m not saying that’s what your doing or what everyone is doing however it happens all the time to me a every shop I have been in and I see it online quite a bit.
the graded books that are slabbed should have a more official status when it comes to the grade. its displayed, its "Frozen in time" and presented that way. Raw books are not protected the same way and a variety of things could happen to book diminishing its value. I don't think Raw books should be priced what slabs are priced. but it comes down to If you find a buyer for the price you are asking then that's the price. and if you find that a lot of people are criticizing you for it. that also tells ya something.
Can I please make a cover for you guy's? I can show you some of my art ? My picture is some of a piece I am making but can and will send more and will work for free !?
I buy the comics to read. I don’t buy slabs unless it’s one I’ve read. But these comics should NOT be priced the same. For raw copies take out the cost of grading and be conservative with the unofficial grading. Too often are there people who look at only the profit they can make. Instead of being fair and thinking about repeat customers.
In my opinion. A raw ungraded book should be priced less than a graded one. Grading also costs money, and the whole point of getting something graded is to "certify" its value, which is why I think they should cost more than a raw ungraded comic with potential. I agree both the dealer and customer co-exist. However, Your comic dealer isn't going to give you that graded / raw courtesy when buying your used collection.
Exactly "It's not that easy" to make a blank statement on how people "should price a book." There are many facets of "value" that a seller provides. I have been collecting and grading my own books since 1980. Everyone HAD to prior to 2000. The 9.4 example is not great for illustrating this discussion. There are many 9.4 NM books on ebay (to the trained eye) so pricing is pretty straight forward. But we all know E-Bay NM books that are more like 9.0 & 9.2, then 9. 4. The real issue comes pricing 9.6-9.8 raw books, which is my specialty. If I give a 9.6 grade to a raw book it's because it could be 9.6 to 9.8 CGC in my eyes. Now few clients will pay much of a premium for these books, but people wanting CGC SS may pay more. If it may get a 9.8 I'd probably rather grade myself. So my 9.6 raw books are priced maybe twice as high as a 9.4 (rule of thumb). Maybe slightly, less than a 9.6 CGC. My 9.6 raw MAY have a better chance at a 9.8 CGC than a book already graded 9.6 CGC. Now this is for keys that grading makes it worth it at even a 9.6 CGC. If I pay $50 all in to grade it and I lose money at the sale, then I price my raw book closer to the 9.4 raw vales on ebay.
In my mind it should always fetch some sort of premium for the graded copy of the same grade. Even if that book is what you say it is I would still have to pay to have it graded. The very fact that if you had a listing for a book with no pictures and had to describe the book you would need to say 9.4 raw vs 9.4 Graded means they hold a different value. Just an opinion though
A non CGC should be less than raw. Yes, you pay for the third-party opinion to settle all disputes. These are basic economics that are only distorted when things such as nostalgia and non-rational players (rich people) affect them. In that respect, comics are the same as cars.
I would say price it how u want but I would never sell a raw book at a graded price bc if u want to grade it then u r in the red so I’d at minimum price it at the graded price minus grading costs. I get at some prices that doesn’t work and I price it less based on avg eBay raw sales. I don’t want the stress of someone getting a book graded and the book comes back lower then what I said grading is so inconsistent especially at lower grades.
My opinion is everyone needs to make money. If the book is priced to high then don't buy it. I really do not slab any of my books. Looking for one ticket mark to lower it takes away from the fun of collecting.
If a seller is so confident and asking a graded price then why aren’t they getting it graded themselves? Raw should always be cheaper by slab price at minimum along with drop to price of two grades lower. I would only pay the “ask” if I thought the grade was underestimated; a very rare occurrence!
No, the prices should not be the same. A graded book is supposedly a guaranteed grade. In a graded price you pay for the guaranteed grade and grading cost. You guys promote Key Collector. That is a good source and reflects very similar to overstreet.
Me personally I will buy a raw copy over a graded copy. But I will never pay graded prices for a raw comic.
Sorry for the accidental thumbs down. I agree. Great runs can be any mix of grades. I agree with you.
Facts
Smh. I will keep my words 2 myself.
@@georgeleos8219 say what you got to say.
@@georgeleos8219say it! Say it! Say it! Say it! Say it! Say ITTTT!!
The issue is the inconsistent grading from different buyers. I’ve bought fines that are very fine and I’ve bought fines that are very good at best. So the slab at least is more of a guarantee of condition.
A raw book should at the very least be discounted by the cost of grading the book, otherwise, the raw copy is technically more expensive than the graded copy.
To answer your question, you have the right to price a comic as a 9.4 after it’s been graded and slabbed a 9.4 (and after you’ve invested the cost of grading in the book).
A dealer cannot price a raw book at a graded price. The fact that the book is graded by an impartial party is part of how much a book is worth. The dealer cannot include that part of the equation in his price because, just like the buyer, the dealer is self-interested. This is why third party grading is so coveted.
Might I add this is why key collector uses raw grades and not graded because they are different. Pretty easy. Stop charging extra when you don’t go through the hassle of grading. Plus the book is protected. How is this a conversation?
Unfortunately Key Collector's raw prices, in most cases, are pretty far off from reality. This is partly due to the fact that it's probably hard to keep up with the price fluctuations, since they most likely don't have any kind of automated feed into their system that would update the prices regularly. I've seen plenty of books on Key Collector priced the same for the last 3 years, but the actual prices have fluctuated dramatically. There are also plenty of prices on Key Collector for raw books that are actually greater than what the same graded copy sells for.
People can price and sell their books at whatever price they want. Market will direct the numbers, along with the give and takes of any transaction.
It’s simple algebra… Cost of raw book (in the suggested condition) + Cost for grading/encapsulation + Relative value of the sellers time / shipping = $ of slabbed book
Raw books are always a gamble, hence the higher pricing on a graded one. You are guaranteeing a certain level of quality. My last 2 shows I had dealers asking prices for raw book based on graded value. Not surprisingly they both had the books still hanging around after the show. I was trying to pick up a Star Wars 68 and one dealer said, "If you get it pressed and graded, it will probably come back 9.6, so $600." Wait, you want to charge me based on the possible final grade IF I press and grade it? Thant's not how this works. That is the nature of these things tho. Dealers will always over-value their books when selling and under value yours when they're buying. This is why we negotiate. But it all matters where the starting point is for me. Ultimately, I'd rather buy raw and press and grade them myself than pay for an already slabbed book. But I won't spend slabbed money on a raw book. Ever.
I had a similar experience where I purchased some books on ebay that were graded at a 9.6 or better. When I got them, they were clearly over graded by 2 to 3 grades. When I messaged the dealer about it, their reply was that the 9.6 was a grade that these books would end up in after a clean and press. It was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I returned all the books, so no harm done in the end. But, how do dealers come up with this twisted logic to begin with?
@lukelandwalker2920 Exactly. I mainly collect raw books. I will not clean or press any of my books due to the cost and time. I'm not trying to flip books for a grade. Just trying to collect for fun. I don't get why some sellers do this. If I wanted to get a 9.6 I will just buy one not take a gamble by spending 9.6 money to then have to clean, press and then incurre more cost to grade. Just a way for seller to get over on you. Thankfully I've only had positive experiences so far. But if sellers want to charge graded prices they should go and get their books cleaned pressed and graded. This applies to most books 90% of collectors will grab.
@Fireguyryan you're 100% correct in my opinion. Raw books are not guaranteed as adversed.. CGC is one of the "authorities" in grading which really creats the market for graded comics. I would never pay CGC prices a Raw book.
Slabbed books are more liquid than raw. The greater ease in selling slabs online makes it worth the premium that CGC carries.
For an older comic I believe same price is ok, but the most I would dish out for is a 9.0 without the grading company. Open the book wrong, small slip of the hand, transport was rough, you sneeze and 1,000 meatballs go in for the kill! No more 9.8!!!!
If a dealer tried to sell a new book with cgc prices I would piss on his left shoe.
All joking aside tho, a dealer could price his book as high or low as they want. Until I throw legal tender at someone the book is not mine. If I don’t like a dealer or shop, I just won’t purchase my stuff there.
Although we all bitch about CGC grading, I still would trust their grading over some random dude off of e-bay. A 9.4 graded comic is worth more than a raw book in most instances just for the peace of mind. If the 9.4 raw book looks better than the graded 9.4, then it probably would grade at a 9.6 (or higher) and wasn't really a "9.4" in the first place. Great discussion guys!
There are different price guide services that post current market prices for slabbed vs raw books, so the community has already grown accustomed to expecting raw comics to be sold for less than a graded book.
All raw books should have a minimum of a $45 discount because that's the cost to grade and press the book. That's my personal opinion.
Never pay graded prices for raw books. If you’re selling raw you have to expect a haircut on the graded price. Always a gamble on raws.when it’s raw it’s a comic book, when it’s slabbed it’s got a stronger shot at being an investment collectible.
If the raw grade is accurate or in the ball park, the fair thing to do is subtract the price of grading the book from the final price..
If a graded 9.8 NM 98 is $550 at the time, and the dealer gives me a $30-$50 discount, I’d buy the book. By the time I get the book back from grading there’s a (logical) chance the book would have increased in value..
Not by a lot, but money is not lost, and both the buyer and seller would be content.
When you try to locate a genuinely rare book where it only comes up for sale only 6 to 12 months in any grade, you start to realize that the dealer is more important than the individual buyer. Without the dealer, the buyer has nothing to buy.
Ford motor company created the demand for cars. Consumers did not create that demand. The dealer created the market that previously did not exist.
This happens in comics too.
You aren't just paying for the grade, but for the preservation of the grade. You can leave the store with a raw 9.4, but by the time you get home it's an 8.5.
The cost of slabbing a raw I think does two things in price increase. One: cost of slabbing, and two: the accepted value of a book once slabbed. Even with consist dirty grading by a dealer taken into consideration, to price them equally does not feel right. To prove a little above fmv of a raw book can be acceptable. However, as collectors and dealers alike, the third party grading leaves little argument for price.
Pricing at a graded price is the most ridiculous thing that Ive ever heard Jeff say. When your are selling a raw book and selling it at a graded price, then you as the seller should have some accountability and put your money where your mouth is. If you sell a graded book that gets submitted with a returns with a lower grade, then back your words up and give a full financial guarantee, otherwise don't grade it. One more point, for insurance purposes a actual graded book will be covered far better than a ungraded book if ever a claim was needed to be made.
A Comic is Worth what someone is willing to pay for it
"I just want to read" 😂
A raw copy should be less than a graded copy based on there is no guarantee on your graded raw copy, plus there is a cost involved with the graded copy and there is no speculation with a graded copy, it is what it is. Therefor the time, effort, cost, and guarantee of what you are buying in a graded copy should be an extra cost or premium vs a raw.
The cost for a grade is an extra expense. A raw book should never be what a slabbed book goes for. I have bought books at a grade & sent it in & have NEVER got the grade posted by the dealer. It usually ends at least 1 full grade less. Raw should be at least 3/4 the cost of a slabbed if not less.
Um, labor theory of value (a pretty basic concept in economics) is that an encapsulated/graded book has more trade value than the same book raw. Simple as that.
The materials, skills, & work that go into grading & encapsulating a comic increase the trade value because those books are protected, preserved, & all aspects of what make it a collectible are frozen in time -- thus giving it a higher trade value in a collectibles market.
That's just a basic of econ. You can't sell a raw book at the same price of a graded/encapsulated one unless the _trade value_ of both are equal. In which case why bother encapsulating it at all? Putting all that extra work & all of those extra resources/materials into a collectible only for it to keep its value beforehand? Makes no sense.
Bear in mind anyone can _price_ a book however they want, but that doesn't mean the book suddenly carries that figure in _value_ or that it _costs_ that much to actually get the same book elsewhere. Value, cost, & price are all different things. You can price a book whatever you want, go ahead -- that doesn't mean anyone's gonna buy it. Especially if the price is higher than the actual value.
Price doesn't determine value, labor does. Skills, time, energy, etc.
Also use value vs. trade value is a real thing. You can trade any comic book, raw or encapsulated, but you can't "use" (i.e. read) an encapsulated one. Use value vs. trade value can be a complicated struggle.
If the cost for the books are the same, it’s a no brainer to go with the graded copy…so just wait to find a graded copy or pay a little extra for a 9.6
That actually depends on what you as a collector want. Not everyone wants a graded/encapsulated book 🤷 also it's the _price_ you're referring to, not the _cost_ or _value_ -- all 3 represent a different set of factors.
Refer to my comment where I briefly touched on "trade value". All comics have trade value, but only raw books have use value. You can't read a graded comic book.
Therefore their prices should be (in theory) different.
Totally agree with Matthew. I only want real keys as slabbed books, or books I absolutely love.
Raw books will never hold the grade thats why slabs for alot of us collectors want secured grade depending on the book and the fmv
I hate when people upcharge and tell you that if you get it graded, it will be worth more; in fact, the price they want is graded pricing. Someone, please stop the 55-year-old scheme artists.
I have a first appearance of Ras Al Ghul it's beautiful. Perfect. I would not let it go for a price where I would be screwed just because it's not in a slab.
If the book is valuable at a 9.4 then a raw 9.4 candidate copy should reflect that minus the grading and pressing cost.
I buy based on what I’m willing to pay raw/graded. I guess graded books make things more official with FMV stats to some.
If you're a dealer who thinks you should be trusted to grade accurately and you're right, you'll be rewarded by retaining loyal customers who are willing to pay more for your raw books than an unknown dealer's raw books because you've established trust. You can earn the right to lower your spread between graded and raw prices but that spread won't ever go to $0.
Reduce $45 for non slabs for mid grades
Very good and possibly important conversation. Buying graded books does take the guess work out of what the comic presents as (even though comics do get regraded sometimes higher or lower than before) and as a result it seems the market is easier to navigate for graded books. At my local LCS they have many excellent modern books that they guarantee are 9.2 or better (but sell at cover price since they are brand new). Though all the older books (all are raw) are absolutely open to negotiation. We both look at recent sales etc and even then I get, to me, some excellent deals.
I think this topic warrants further discussion. Thanks for bringing it up
I think this is because collectors use sites such as gocollect, and they jump to the graded values to determine price, so that is where dealers naturally follow
What about if it's a hulk 181 raw selling at a slab price
Great Convo, as someone who doesn’t like slabs and has cracked out 100+ graded books I can guarantee the grades and pg quality slab guys think they’re getting is definitely questionable and inconsistent. With that said there’s many dealers I buy from who’s grading expertise I trust more than cgc/cbcs and have no problem buying raw from them at slab like prices 💯
A dealer should really be able to communicate the quality level of their books if they are charging CGC prices. They better be very detailed and articulate in their explanation.
I buy raw but still get sellers trying to upsell it at graded prices. At that point i just walk away.
Ill never turn down a 9.4 raw unless they try to sell it at a 9.8 price!😂
A raw 9.4 can also come back a graded 9.6 , which has happened to me several times. 2 9.6s came back 9.8s this week. Then again a 9.0 came back an 8.5 , Who cares what dealers do. If you don't Iike it then don't buy it.
2:32 good point
Anyone charging slabbed prices for a raw book is a 🤡….bottom line. No discussion
CGC Graded books are overpriced. Collect responsibly.
It makes sense that grades books have a higher value. I'm heavily into Funko pops and it's normal for graded pops to go for twice as much as non-graded pops.
Slabs gurantee condition but buyers all grade different and they put prices they feel reflect the book. If I don't agree with price will haggle if I really want they book. If they don't lower price I just go to the next dealer. Same for online.
It's people trying to get their money's worth. How bout you sell insurance on that price point based on your grading!?!? Give me some of my money back if it comes back lower.
Since when do raw books get CGC grades without actually being graded? What happened to the Basic Grading Scale, like NM VF, FN, VG, GD etc...??? I believe raw books should be held to the Basic Grading Scale and the Ten Point Grading Scale should only be used for graded slabbed books...just my opinion! 😅😂😅
I am not seeing your point. These scales are one and the same. A NM is a 9.4 and 9.4 is NM. There is actually no reason to have 2 different scales that represent the same thing. We should just move over to the numeric scale as it's far more clear in it's intent.
As I am looking for high grade Daredevil’s 131 & 168 raw,the prices on these are a good example of pricing raw at graded prices & Higher! I under grade mid & lower grade silver any big keys I get graded in any grade.
I feel like the right thing to do, for high grade moderns at least, is to price the book with enough wiggle room that IF a buyer is to get it graded there's enough to make it worth getting it graded. NOT.ALL. BOOKS. SHOULD. GET. GRADED. THOUGH. All it takes is a 9.4 raw book even WITH wiggle room to get an upset grade of 9.0 and the investment doesn't really work. Grading is always a risk
Been to a small comicbook shop a few months ago, the seller was selling a raw copy of 1993 Spawn #9 first appearance of Angela, Medieval Spawn and Cogliostro, for $100.00 dollars displayed on the wall.
The comicbook looks like a good condition book but i said to myself, "No way that Spawn #9 is worth $100.00 dollars, i wouldn't pay for that." Which to me is preposterous given the fact that comicbook isn't worth that much unless it was graded which it wasn't.
And true no raw copy cannot match to a graded book when there's no guaranteed a raw book to be sent to a reputable graded company will come back to a high grade standard as one would think it will when in reality it won't, depending of course the condition and the shape of the book it may be in which is a risk.
Nice review.
I’m with Ryan on this one. I just want to read comics. The whole grading thing only makes sense for major keys. Otherwise it’s just pointless other than to make more money. Which to me hurts the hobby because it shouldn’t be about making more money off a book just because it has a variant cover. It’s so lame.
Yeah these conversations go over my head sometimes 😅
@@fireguyryan9362 I get the conversations just find grading pointless. Unless it’s like an Action Comics #1 then I get it. But grading a book because it’s a 1:100 cover is just sad. And it just locks a book up that will never be read.
A grade is just a guideline. The buyers willing to pony up a premium will be dependent on the level of trust he has with the seller on his opinion.
To me through my store, Raw books get the Old School grading (FINE, VF, NM etc) slabbed books get the 9.6 9.8 grading.... grading ends up being a personal preference in the end for the RAW material. RAW books DON'T Graded Prices... they are two different market places.
The biggest problem with this issue is that an overwhelming majority of the dealers over grade their books. I've purchased thousands of raw books on ebay and about 85% of them are over graded by 2 or more grades. After a while this is something that I've come to expect and factor that into my purchasing price. So, if I see a books advertised as a 9.4 raw, I will automatically assume that it will be a 9.0 and as a result will not go higher than the market value for a raw 9.0. This way I am rarely disappointed in the grade I receive the book in. In the few cases where I argued the grade with the dealer because I requested a return, I always try to make a bet with the dealer. I tell them that they can take that book and send it in to get it graded. If the book gets graded one grade below what they advertised, or higher, I will pay for their certification fee and on top of that I will give them an additional $100 for their troubles. If the book comes back two grades below what they advertised (or lower), they should let me get the book for half price. Never did I get a reply or any further arguments from these dealers.
A dealer and seller has financial gain involved so a 3rd party is required to be unbiased.
I would say the lower the price of the book, it isn't going to matter as much, but to price a higher end book the same as an encapsulated book is assuming the person is 100% accurate. That is where I think you don't grade by 9.8, 9.6, 9.4 but Mint, Near Mint, Very Fine, etc......because unless you're going to guarantee that grade, you should price a little lower than a graded book. The graded book is already done, you're speculating that is the grade that book is. I've seen plenty of these videos to know that the books don't always come back what the person thought, no matter how good they are at grading. Now, that being said, if you see the book and you think the price is fair and you want it, then you're probably going to pay it anyway. But to assume that you can price the book at the same price as an already graded price to me is just silly, because it's almost like you're saying your grading, your word and everything else is better than CGC and CBCS, which is presumptuous. A book that's already graded probably has a higher trade value, and less likely to be argued about because it is already graded. I've had discussions with dealers who "graded" their books and I said, well what about this or this on the book, and they said 'oh I missed that', or didn't see that. I just bought a book the other day, with no description about the book at all, and got it home and the whole center of the book fell out, so I had to return it. Store has been around forever, so I thought if there would be issues with the book, they would put a little sticker on the outside to tell you if anything was wrong. At the end of the day, it all comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with the price you're willing to pay....and if the person grading it is willing to move a little bit.
Your paying for the hassle of grading as well. I don’t know why that isn’t brought up. It’s subjective just like your opinion on what a 9.4 is. It’s cost money and is a hassle. Your eyeball is free but isn’t perfect either. So why pay more for your eyeball?
Its a No for me. For me personally Raw would be less than same in Graded form. Graded brings with it the guarantee and cost of slabbing. Just my personal opinion.
So I’ve been asking myself this question as well after I came across an interesting scenario; what if a book has a low census count (let’s say 50 books with 9.4 making up 20% of graded copies with only 10% being higher than 9.4). Is a raw high grade actually better because of such a low census and potential higher market opportunity due to low available supply? I would say in most cases if the issue has some significance.
For example, I’m completing a taskmaster run, any book he has a cover appearance before 2002. Well there aren’t many amazing Spider-Man 308s or 366s. As time progresses anyone that wants taskmaster related books will stumble on this same conundrum but now you have the answer because you slabbed your best raw that cost 10-20% a slabbed version.
That’s just how I’m thinking but definitely takes on more risk and time. It would have to be a very carefully chosen issue/list while having multiples.
Curious of everyone else’s thoughts. Am I overthinking this? Or is reasonable risk management?
Fireguyryan is literally me 😭😂
Thank you Ryan, I also just want to read my comics. And didn't this video show the flaw of grading comics? If you have two copies of the same comic both graded, one a 6.0 the other a 6.5 but the 6.0 presents better wouldn't you rather have that? Sure the 6.5 has whiter pages with no flaws while the 6.0 has yellow pages, some have been dog eared and a previous owner marked the interior somehow but the 6.0 has a better looking cover. Once slabbed isn't the only important thing really the look of the cover and how it presents in the slab? And the interior is like Schrodinger's Cat, it may or may not be as described, the only way to find out is by opening the slab.
1. Once your comic holds value it’s an investment you wanna protect that investment and get it graded and case so you can get top dollar when you wanna sell. 2. Buy low sell high . People don’t want to let go of high grade raw keys anymore For cheap .
You shouldn’t be financial penalized for selling high grade book if the buyer wants to go get it graded 3. The product the same it should mirror in value regardless the cost of service. All books are equal based off condition ergo 4. Buyer beware (and There’s sucker born every second). Best show ever
I've always thought that slabbed books are way overpriced as compared to their raw counterparts. I prefer to buy raw books only.
It's simple, if you trust the dealer you're buying from. It's OK to pay a fair price.
I guess it depends on whether it's online or in person. I would have a hard time paying 200 bucks for a raw Secret Wars #8 on E=bay vs one that is slabbed already.
Random, but I saw a uk Spiderman #1 on ebay a while back, that's the oversize reprint from the 70's at NM, not only was the joker attempting to price it like it was an American book but I seriously think he overestimated the grade by 7-or 8 points. It was the worst NM I have ever seen.
I agree a seller can price however he wants, but I also agree the seller can sit on his book forever and never sell it. If a person sells raw at graded prices, they deserve to never sell anything.
one of the stores i deal with price w/sold items off net n then subtract the amt of slab, but w/lower priced stuff, i dunno.......... kinda like reading them myself, so i prefer buying raw.....too.
If you want to sell it for graded price, then get it graded. If not, at least acknowledge the cost of slabbing. If a book is worth about $250 as a graded 6.0, then a raw at that grade should sell for about $200.
come on guys, this is a no-brainer. It's a bit disrespectful to price a raw book like a slabbed book, especially if it's a raw modern. Now there are exceptions to the rule. If it's a modern blue chip key, then SURE, people are going to be willing to pay or bid high on those books especially if its clear it's a higher grade. But with rates as high as they are now on grading and shipping books most collectors and buyers can feel like it's robbery. This is why top dollar is asked at cons because at least you're purchasing in person and the buyer has the right to make that decision and start the barter process. And the older and significant the book, the price becomes more concrete. But the art of the barter will always be in play. It should always be fun and always a place where people can feel like they may be getting a decent deal, whether buying or selling. Love you guys 🤟🏼
CGC grade books are considered proof of the grade. It can cost 100$ and up to get it graded. Raw comics silver/gold are the only one think about and they would need a major reputation.
I think you should be able to charge the same minus the grading fees. So around 70 dollars less. Otherwise the graded book is overpriced if its more than 70 in price and for dealers grading is even cheaper.
Take a silver age book, it's graded at a 5.0 but severely sun faded or a raw book at the same grade that's not sun faded. I'm taking the raw book at the same grade
I agree with Ryan. A 9.4 raw is an opinion.
Yeah most of the time (99%) you're gonna pay less for a raw copy, not only because there's risk involved (maybe they over-graded, there's a defect that went unnoticed, etc..) but also the price of getting the book graded and the TIME it takes to get it graded(that ain't free because you're getting it now when buying it already graded).
I call it "swinging for the fences" when I buy a pricey high-grade raw book hoping it'll come back a high 9.? or whatever when I send it in. There's always a risk in Raw books and that's why they are priced less. I've hit home-runs and struck-out many times with raw books, it's a learning experience for sure.
I think the only time you can charge the same price for a raw as a graded book is if the book is extremely scarce, in that case I can understand paying the premium. Some books only come up for sale so often but again, I'd want to see it in person first as Jeff said.
Mile High prices are expensive as hell.....they should of opened up their own graded service.....I used to buy from them in the 80's from their 50 cents and dollar comics adds
Not only are they expensive, but they are seriously over graded. I used to order from them in the 80's as a kid. Anything that I purchased that was advertised as NM was never higher than a VF-. Once ebay came around I never purchased from then again.
I'll always prefer raw copies of books over graded however I have purchased a few when the price was right. Grading raw books for a personal collection is one thing however if you plan on selling your books it becomes a tricky thing as it so subjective. In my opinion an estimated VF+ raw book is an amazing looking book and displays well, whereas I find the graded copy (8.5) doesn't have the same curb appeal as the raw VF+ book. The price for a raw should be less than a graded book just because of the slab cost, although it shouldn't be a huge difference.
My formula is CGC graded - $50 = same grade raw when book is under $300. Above that then I pay less and less for raw verses graded.
My opinion is that you shouldn't price raw books the same as graded books. The dealer may say it's a 9.4 but what happens when you submit it and it comes back less than a 9.4? Is the golden guru going to compensate me for his wrong grading? No I have to take the loss on the book. Then it puts me spending more on the book than its worth.
It is never ok to put a non graded book at the same price as a none graded book because you have to add how much it is to get graded….I hate dealers that price there books even higher than what it says it should be in the over street at a 9.8…I just saw a 9.6 number 2 spiderverse almost double what a 9.6 graded book was….that’s why I don’t buy from there….the only reason I go there is because they send my raw books out to get graded….it makes me so angry because your taking advantage of the people who buy and it makes me so frustrated because you want to have respect for both seller and buyer
The subjective assessment and assignment of value to the "grade and condition" of most modern comic books is everything that is wrong with the hobby. Speculating on the future value, forced scarcity, and the farce that is CGC would turn me off from ever buying or selling anything in the comic book market as a possible "investment" today. It's just not worth the headache or the hassle to even assign a grade to something that is so subjective. Set your price, describe the condition as truthfully as possible, and sell the books as ungraded, and let the buyers decide if it is worth the asking price or not 🤷♂️
This conversation is the part of collecting comics that is not fun. Ryan loves comics. Other guy (not Tom) sounds like loves investment collecting.
I always rate raw comics by CGC grands and resist sell but it will always be 40-100$ less for the buyer, but you can price “Your” comics however you want. If you don’t wanna buy that comic for that price then find one for a price your comfortable with. That simple
I just wanna read
Difference is the price of shipping and grading
The price of shipping and grading is far from being the only difference. The biggest difference is the established standard that CGC (or CBCS) provides. This is the main reason why most graded books sell for far more than comparable raw books.
I do have a problem paying the same price for a raw book as what it would be with a sure fire grade on it from a company like cgc. Here is why. The other day I was in a shop and they had a hulk 180 raw for 500 bucks the guy tried to tell me it was about a 5.0😂 well if you know anything and I know little I’m not a full blown master at grading but you would know that a book that has a chuck taken out from the bottom of the cover and not just that but that same chuck going trough pages as well you will know that’s not going to make that grade at a company like cgc. My point is if the book is raw almost always people try to give it a higher grade then what it is so they can get bigger prices. I’m not saying that’s what your doing or what everyone is doing however it happens all the time to me a every shop I have been in and I see it online quite a bit.
the graded books that are slabbed should have a more official status when it comes to the grade. its displayed, its "Frozen in time" and presented that way. Raw books are not protected the same way and a variety of things could happen to book diminishing its value. I don't think Raw books should be priced what slabs are priced. but it comes down to If you find a buyer for the price you are asking then that's the price. and if you find that a lot of people are criticizing you for it. that also tells ya something.
Can I please make a cover for you guy's? I can show you some of my art ? My picture is some of a piece I am making but can and will send more and will work for free !?
I buy the comics to read. I don’t buy slabs unless it’s one I’ve read. But these comics should NOT be priced the same. For raw copies take out the cost of grading and be conservative with the unofficial grading. Too often are there people who look at only the profit they can make. Instead of being fair and thinking about repeat customers.
In my opinion. A raw ungraded book should be priced less than a graded one. Grading also costs money, and the whole point of getting something graded is to "certify" its value, which is why I think they should cost more than a raw ungraded comic with potential. I agree both the dealer and customer co-exist. However, Your comic dealer isn't going to give you that graded / raw courtesy when buying your used collection.
Exactly "It's not that easy" to make a blank statement on how people "should price a book." There are many facets of "value" that a seller provides. I have been collecting and grading my own books since 1980. Everyone HAD to prior to 2000. The 9.4 example is not great for illustrating this discussion. There are many 9.4 NM books on ebay (to the trained eye) so pricing is pretty straight forward. But we all know E-Bay NM books that are more like 9.0 & 9.2, then 9. 4. The real issue comes pricing 9.6-9.8 raw books, which is my specialty. If I give a 9.6 grade to a raw book it's because it could be 9.6 to 9.8 CGC in my eyes. Now few clients will pay much of a premium for these books, but people wanting CGC SS may pay more. If it may get a 9.8 I'd probably rather grade myself. So my 9.6 raw books are priced maybe twice as high as a 9.4 (rule of thumb). Maybe slightly, less than a 9.6 CGC. My 9.6 raw MAY have a better chance at a 9.8 CGC than a book already graded 9.6 CGC. Now this is for keys that grading makes it worth it at even a 9.6 CGC. If I pay $50 all in to grade it and I lose money at the sale, then I price my raw book closer to the 9.4 raw vales on ebay.
In my mind it should always fetch some sort of premium for the graded copy of the same grade. Even if that book is what you say it is I would still have to pay to have it graded. The very fact that if you had a listing for a book with no pictures and had to describe the book you would need to say 9.4 raw vs 9.4 Graded means they hold a different value. Just an opinion though
A non CGC should be less than raw. Yes, you pay for the third-party opinion to settle all disputes. These are basic economics that are only distorted when things such as nostalgia and non-rational players (rich people) affect them. In that respect, comics are the same as cars.
I would say price it how u want but I would never sell a raw book at a graded price bc if u want to grade it then u r in the red so I’d at minimum price it at the graded price minus grading costs. I get at some prices that doesn’t work and I price it less based on avg eBay raw sales. I don’t want the stress of someone getting a book graded and the book comes back lower then what I said grading is so inconsistent especially at lower grades.
My opinion is everyone needs to make money. If the book is priced to high then don't buy it. I really do not slab any of my books. Looking for one ticket mark to lower it takes away from the fun of collecting.
"It's only worth what someone is willing to pay" - Somebody smart
I would never buy a book like hulk 181 raw for same price as a cgc regardless the grade.
If a seller is so confident and asking a graded price then why aren’t they getting it graded themselves? Raw should always be cheaper by slab price at minimum along with drop to price of two grades lower. I would only pay the “ask” if I thought the grade was underestimated; a very rare occurrence!
No, the prices should not be the same. A graded book is supposedly a guaranteed grade. In a graded price you pay for the guaranteed grade and grading cost. You guys promote Key Collector. That is a good source and reflects very similar to overstreet.
Negative Star Fighter, graded will have higher value