I spent 11 years working on cruise ships. I learned more playing for guest entertainers and playing in front of hundreds of people a night while sight reading than I did back in school. I would highly recommend cruise ship gigs because you perform EVERY night and you get paid more than $2k a month minimum. I have been to 75+ countries and all 7 continents and wouldn't have changed that for the world.
“International touring artists”. How much coin do those guys make? Not trying to be insulting, but are people busting their asses for a lifetime to be a guy who ultimately still make mediocre money? What are the top freelance drummers making? Are there many many cats chasing ever smaller dollars?
Here's some advice. 1) If you think school is about education then you're thinking on the wrong axis. School is a recruiting center on the axis of money flow, not the other way around. It's one of the many possible solutions to creating a path to money flow. Schools sell education but actually give certification. 2) The way to learn is to commit to teaching, not learning. Teaching demands you select what's marketable. Start a music school. Spend $75 and get a DBA - doing business as - and start a music school the instant you're able to teach ANYTHING. I don't care if you've only been playing six months and you're asking for $5 for a 15 minute lesson. Do that, find sub-contractors, find better sub-contractors cause guess what ... then the best drummers are seeking YOU out and as you get better YOU will be in prime spots to seize opportunities and maybe even SELL your business if it's time to get on the road.
Lester Bowie told me, “The first thing you have to do is feed your face with your horn!” I’ve tried to take that to mean, improve your skills to the point where you can rely on them to provide for you. It is a difficult task but something to strive for. You are giving real world application of this idea. Thanks for your work.
Great video! I went to school for jazz in NYC a little after you did (2009-2011) and I went out to jam sessions most nights which I think was a really valuable experience even if they don't lead to gigs most of the time. Another great thing to do that none of the other students did is go to people's little restaurant trio gigs. Don't expect or ask to sit in, just go and hang and the bandleader will really love just having at least one person who is there for the music, as opposed to a jam where there a ton of musicians and none of them give a shit about the house band. They just want to get on stage and play their reharm of Autumn Leaves.
Man, 80/20, you’ve hit the nail at the tip of the iceberg here. :-D 1st, it was refreshing to hear that the “scene change” around 2008-2010 wasn’t just in my head! I started teaching part-time in 2006, playing fewer gigs as my HS band program grew. I left in 2011 to purse playing again, on cruise ships. When I got off of ships in 2013 and came back to town, the scene from 2008 was GONE. The players were all still there, but becoming integrated again was completely different than before. It was like the quality of playing meant way less and the quality of “social presence” meant almost everything. 2nd: Our educational system is what we call a “self-licking ice-cream-cone.” It’s only reason to exist is to keep itself existing. A college educational system doesn’t give you a job, but it WILL give you debt. If you want to find work, then get to work. :-)
As a freshman drummer in college in NYC I can say a lot of this is true. Most of the upper classmen play a few gigs and go to jams, but are more focused on their online presence. This video definitely gives me more confidence going into the music business. Thanks for all the advice Nate!
Read ahead, had to comment - I totally agree with the email. Literally just had a lengthy conversation with my wife about what we should do differently in terms of advising our twins (even though they are only 4...) My contention is that if someone had sat me down and explained, "you will have more freedom to make music and be an accomplished photographer IF you choose a job path that lets you leave work at work" Instead, I have this Music Education degree that I no longer want to use (defeated by the public school system - string programs are on life support) and I have to hustle twice as hard now because a music degree might as well be a participation ribbin to any other employer I would literally be a better musician and closer to where I want to be artistically if I had just been an assistant manager at McDonald's
What do you mean “defeated by the public school system” I ask because I had an interest in getting a music education degree. I’m a drummer and percussionist by the way.
@@markmunoz3951 If you really want to teach music in an academic environment, then go for it. However, a lot of people get into it because they really just want to make music - but also need a "day job" and the only skill they have is music. Proceed with caution if you're in the latter group.
None of us really got into music for the money anyway. I dis the whole "gonna be a star" thing...even got signed to a major in the 90's. The sad reality is that I make WAY more money playing weddings (typical wedding gig for a GREAT band is $500-$700 per musician in my area) than I ever did while "living the dream". Have a job....then make whatever music you want to make. If it hits....then it hits. Just remember, you are doing something that you love and would likely do for free anyway.
what about playing house shows? i had a band back in college into my mid 20s and we played house parties about once a week. no one cared about making money. it was completely just for fun and we had a blast.
I personally think this is spot on. At the core adapting to an industry/culture that moves and morphs. Lots of creative people cling to solid uncreative view points (me included) and they suffer and struggle as a result. Thanks for the inspiration, and challenge, as always.
Yo, besides your great practice/educational videos, this is hands down the best video so far. IMHO, you can continue in this direction and be an influencer .there are so many confusions about the industry. Keep it going and keep it real.Cheers
I thought this was a fantastic review of the options for getting better and getting heard. He explains it in a really clear way, with an interesting visual presentation.
Nice video! Though I think that the "hang out" part is more important. Like in every business, people tend to hire people with whom they have good time, even if they are professionally (in this case musically) slightly less competent.
Great advice.. unfortunately I missed out on opportunities and had to pay bills lol. But you were pretty much spot on . The hardest part is finding and getting “ good” musicians in the same room…
I think one of the dilemmas is (and what I experienced in LA in the late nineties) how does one provide for oneself as a young person in these expensive places long enough to develop a lucrative career as a musician? Having a full time job that pays the bills creates a major barrier and disincentivizes the pursuit of a professional music career, not to get into how much it costs to build a professional internet studio if you have impressive enough chops to warrant a bunch of drummers watching. It seems it requires an incredibly supportive family and at least some “long term” financial support from parents (and more likely a trust fund). If you’re completely on your own...
Cool video dude! Lots of parts resonated w me... I also come from jazz, went on to tour the world w major artists and now "make a living on the internet" as a musician. I shall look forward to more good stuff from you!
Great vid. And quite accurate. At 62, I play in 3 bands, gig a couple times a month. I gave up on the "music business" many years ago. And I'm the son of a full-time drummer who did major Broadway in the 80's among just about everything else. I only play music that I like with players that are 1) really good pro, ex-pro etc and 2) not dicks. Life is too short, I want to play good music with good people. If it doesn't pay much, too bad. I am now in the process of setting up a modest home studio/video space in my house. Digital gigs? Sounds interesting----thanks for doing what you do Nate, I know I appreciate it.
Very interesting topic Nate ! I've been involved in the music industry for a very long time. As a jazz musician working and learning doesn't provide the same opportunities that we had 50 years ago. You had more options in learning and developing your craft. In the eighties and nineties the music club scene began to change. Many clubs went out of business because of the noise policies in many NY city neighborhoods. It was very difficult to gig unless you were playing in more established venues and many of them went out of business. You had to learn how to invent new strategies in how you could work. If you had other skills and resources it was how one was able to sustain in this. As I would share with my students you had to be a jack of all trades. Oyeh Nate excellent work and keep being you.
65 here, also playing in 3 bands regularly (70's tribute band, Country and Jazz) as well as the occasional subbing date. I hold down a very satisfying day gig that I achieved over several decades of leveraging my MA in Music (proves that I have the capacity to learn and utilize what I've learned) to move my way around in various manufacturing industries and positions to become a technical writer. This was after 20 years of schlepping, wedding gigs, house gigs and long term engagements playing shit gigs for shit money. Once I got solidly in the day gig where I had steady income and bennies a funny thing happened. I stopped taking every gig that came along and began taking gigs that MEANT something either on a personal level (I liked the people that I played with...they happened to be great musicians) or the music was satisfying...I guess that was personal too. As I got older I found more time to practice, I was getting more quality work than I could imagine and I didn't have to miss my kids' soccer games or plays. In fact, I was playing in the pit for some of them. All while working 40 hours a week. I did lose a job and spent a year out of a day gig and thankfully, I had gigs to supplement my unemployment. I reinvented myself for the day gig and realized I could do that musically too. Reinvention is liberating! Now, for the last 15 or so years I've been happier than ever.
I think too many musicians are locked into the "traditional path" for success. If there are as many GOOD bassists, sax players and pianists waiting in the que, PUT YOUR OWN BAND TOGETHER! Scrape some cash together and get some recording done. Pump out an album and promote it. (Don't wait for a major label. There are independent alternatives like Bandcamp.)
Great suggestions IMO. I just moved from a large city with a deep musical lineage to a small one with new and growing scenes; and I feel like these tips are equally relevant in both places.
Fantastic video! Would be awesome to update this in the midst of the pandemic. It seems in the last two years that online gigging became all but necessary, but people also became more itchy for live music. I live in a relatively small rural town where there are maybe a few gigs to be had, but there certainly isn't any saturation of jazz musicians. Before 2020 there was a restaurant/bar about an hour from me that had a jazz night where random musicians would just show up to play together (free experience and a discount on food if you play) but they haven't started that back up since 2020. Knowing local musicians has helped me as an amateur, as I've gotten to sit in on more gigs than I imagined coming back here from the city. There aren't really ringer gigs out here, it's just "good hangs" (and maybe a few bad hangs), and I shiver at the thought of trying to compete somewhere like NY. It seems like it's only gotten harder to find gigs, but it's hard to tell from here in rural Virginia. How is the NYC scene changing and responding? More of the same trend we saw in 2019, or has it generated something different?
My strategy was to build a great practice, play space in my basement. It's still under construction but because I am a drummer that comes with space, I get more offers along with can we come play in your space? :)
“Be fully ready for the first 100 gigs to suck...”, This is so important and true. I’ve got a more critical ear than I have talent, and this is just... true.
Great video commentary, Nate...you're totally right on! Hey...you play with Evan Francis...awesome! Evan and I went to music school at USC together! Regarding Jazz places that no longer exist in the city: Auggies..not too far down Broadway from MSM (possibly the most disturbing Jazz venue to close.) That place used to be a great Jazz venue with low prices featuring well-known and up and coming Jazz players sitting in all the time...trying out new idea...a place where connections in New York's Jazz scene were actually made Ultimately closed and became a club (which shall remain nameless) with expensive cover charges and few to no chances for hip up and coming cats to play.
Just found your channel today. I like (#667) your channel, because you explain in this video with good clarity....and watching you I learn something. Thank you very much!
Bill Bruford once said (in 1980's), "Did the advent of drummers beginning to all sound alike give rise to the drum machine or did the drum machine give rise to all drummers sounding alike?"
Think ocean waves and wind in the trees with a drippy faucet in the background. On a serious note, he once opined that he strove to get his single strokes as fast as his doubles. The mystery deepens....!
Good video. I've been a working musician for close to 20 years, and everything you said rings true. It really comes down to creating a reality that makes you happy rather than hoping for other people to bring you into their reality and make you happy.
It depends on each person, but I would say I would have taken more to finish up recordings/compositions and then decided if they were worth "distributing" at a later date. Also, I would have focused more on the really basic stuff before trying to do all the fancier stuff.
Excellent vid, man. To your request at the end: It doesn't dovetail with my experience at all, and you are NOT full of it :) More importantly, is that you playing w/ Matt G. at 3:32? Talk about being one of the guys on the scene that's a "good hang..." He's a great, great guy. As I'm sure you know, if that's you playing w/ him. Tremendous musician too. If you see him on the regular, tell him Dworkin said hello! Peace...
Yea been a few years since I've run across Matt (or hung with Dave Kain, who was the bandleader), but he's good folks. How was your experience different? I already suspect my situation was unique, and fully admit I could've pushed harder and been more tenacious in the early/middle years. I'm not sure I'd trade my situation now for anything tho :P
@@8020drummer I love that I found, quite randomly, someone who has played w/ Matt. Way cool. As for "How was my experience different?"... I'm gonna just say things haven't gone well for me, and leave it at that. All the best to you!
odolany waste of time. If a cymbal maker offered me a great deal, and I loved their cymbals, great. Otherwise, what exposure/prestige is an endorsement giving me that I can’t get myself with this channel?
This a bit off topic, but I think I'm in the wright place to ask this. I studied with Tony DiNicola, ok took private lessons, don't wanna sound like a snob. Now, I realize this is subjective, but I saw a clip of the "top" hundred drummers, and many jazz drummers were included Max Roach, and others, and Tony was not there. Now I realize he's not as well known as Buddy Rich, but in my opinion he's a bit over rated. Tony played with the likes of Harry James, and old blue eye's himself, Frank Sinatra. I trust at least some of you have heard of him, and hopefully heard him play, so my question, if you haven't guessed, is do you think he belongs in that top 100 list? Thanks in advance for any reply.
My background is not jazz. It was punk, rock, prog rock, punk, jazz jams, rock covers etc. Most of my bands were friends then people who knew me from drinking but then I sobered up and started to play jams for fun and the best musos ended up forming a band so another way to meet people. Also at one of those jams I met a veteran band who played jazz clubs and said they said at the jams they could never get enough drummers so asked me to attend with them. I did then started to sit in regularly. I did get fed up of hearing "feather the bass drum." When you grew up playing along to John Bonham jazz is seriously difficult. I like to play heel up and loud accenting on e and + etc. Jazz musos like you to play hell down. For me it was a training ground like having a scorecard with items to tick off that was my jazz category ticked off. My heart is in punk but means rock is not too far of a stretch and the prog band turned up at my house having heard me walking along a path on the opposite side they could hear but couldn't tell which house so went door to door until someone said that noisy b**tard at the end. Once again prog was a training ground with different time signatures etc so I got to play a whole new style but while this is going on my other career was picking up so I was playing fewer and fewer gigs. This isn't uncommon but at one point I was playing 7 gigs a week especially playing covers. I would say master of nothing but I was always willing to turn my hand to anything and that is why I got a lot of gigs. One band even approached my father with a studio recording and to give it to me then come along and play on it. Musicians find a way to meet other musicians in my experience.
ice la honk I got out of cities and I am now in the middle of nowhere where my internet connection is shaky as anything and any touch of snow becomes a death trap because it is me and a few tractors on them. Some people can bear cities all their life but not for me.
@@heftyalan1152 yeah i'm 5 minutes from time square. we'll see how long i last here. much prefer to live on a nice piece of property with woods and water.
ice la honk I am a few miles from woods but once in them I could walk 20 miles and still not walk a road with cars on it. I love it but I could not be a serious musician here as just not the work. There did used to be 2 places to drink one for walkers and one for bikers but now both closed.
Enjoy your videos! So, Nate, how much money is there to be made via UA-cam videos? What's up with a drummer like Sina who in many cases gets more views than the artists she's covering? That's sort of a rhetorical question. More power to her. Do you know how many views are necessary to start capitalizing on UA-cam videos and what's the story behind that capitalization? thx
A million views is worth between $1200 and $3000, according to other UA-camrs who have covered the topic. Depends on how many minutes of your videos they actually watch.
Monetizing a UA-cam audience of millions via ads is like trying to lift a suitcase with your mind. I earned 15k last quarter from 80/20, and I’ve only got 31k subs. (Not a flex - more an “if I can do it anyone can”)
Sina expained in a video she is not earning anything from her drum covers, ad money is going directly towards the music right owners (otherwise would be illegal), even if her covers accumulate more plays than the actual artist's song
I have held an opinion that the 80/20 drummer may have put to rest. The opinion is that a sight reading musician would be able to find gainful employment in the industry. Is that no longer the case? Have opportunities become less and less for those with this skill set? If this is the case, I may have to reread The Death of Expertise by Tom Nichols.
Trying to get jazz gigs sounds great, but when you consider the fact that Jimmy Cobb, who of course played on the best selling jazz album of all time is now effectively begging for money online to help support himself, I’d say that it seems like a lot of guys are looking for very few dollars. How many people are actually making a living playing jazz drums full time?
I spent 11 years working on cruise ships. I learned more playing for guest entertainers and playing in front of hundreds of people a night while sight reading than I did back in school.
I would highly recommend cruise ship gigs because you perform EVERY night and you get paid more than $2k a month minimum. I have been to 75+ countries and all 7 continents and wouldn't have changed that for the world.
I did the ships after I graduated. It was fun. Save that scratch, and avoid the "lifers" ;)
“International touring artists”. How much coin do those guys make? Not trying to be insulting, but are people busting their asses for a lifetime to be a guy who ultimately still make mediocre money? What are the top freelance drummers making? Are there many many cats chasing ever smaller dollars?
@@joesantamaria5874 nowadays, mediocre money to afford living, by doing what you ACTUALLY love (playing music) seems like a goal worth achieving.
"how do you get gigs?" *cuts to video of u looking at the camera playing drums*
this cracked me up for some reason
😳please hire me 😅🙏
@@8020drummer
I would heavily do, if you pass by Rome or nearby.
So engaged with your lessons. Keep it up. Max
I liked how you played a 7/8 groove right after "circa 2007/8" was on screen
It was in 6 ...
Here's some advice.
1) If you think school is about education then you're thinking on the wrong axis.
School is a recruiting center on the axis of money flow, not the other way around.
It's one of the many possible solutions to creating a path to money flow.
Schools sell education but actually give certification.
2) The way to learn is to commit to teaching, not learning. Teaching demands you select what's marketable. Start a music school. Spend $75 and get a DBA - doing business as - and start a music school the instant you're able to teach ANYTHING. I don't care if you've only been playing six months and you're asking for $5 for a 15 minute lesson. Do that, find sub-contractors, find better sub-contractors cause guess what ... then the best drummers are seeking YOU out and as you get better YOU will be in prime spots to seize opportunities and maybe even SELL your business if it's time to get on the road.
This 👆
Nice
Guitar player, but REALLY enjoy your videos!
Informative & entertaining
Passed in to a couple jazz drummers i know
Nice job!
This is golden: a really thoughtful and positive perspective
^^^^this guy
Lester Bowie told me, “The first thing you have to do is feed your face with your horn!” I’ve tried to take that to mean, improve your skills to the point where you can rely on them to provide for you. It is a difficult task but something to strive for. You are giving real world application of this idea. Thanks for your work.
Jeez, I thought there was an absolute dearth of decent drummers. Try finding gigs as a guitar player.
Your videos and drumming are really good, keep it up.
Great video! I went to school for jazz in NYC a little after you did (2009-2011) and I went out to jam sessions most nights which I think was a really valuable experience even if they don't lead to gigs most of the time. Another great thing to do that none of the other students did is go to people's little restaurant trio gigs. Don't expect or ask to sit in, just go and hang and the bandleader will really love just having at least one person who is there for the music, as opposed to a jam where there a ton of musicians and none of them give a shit about the house band. They just want to get on stage and play their reharm of Autumn Leaves.
Man, 80/20, you’ve hit the nail at the tip of the iceberg here. :-D 1st, it was refreshing to hear that the “scene change” around 2008-2010 wasn’t just in my head! I started teaching part-time in 2006, playing fewer gigs as my HS band program grew. I left in 2011 to purse playing again, on cruise ships. When I got off of ships in 2013 and came back to town, the scene from 2008 was GONE. The players were all still there, but becoming integrated again was completely different than before. It was like the quality of playing meant way less and the quality of “social presence” meant almost everything.
2nd: Our educational system is what we call a “self-licking ice-cream-cone.” It’s only reason to exist is to keep itself existing. A college educational system doesn’t give you a job, but it WILL give you debt. If you want to find work, then get to work. :-)
As a freshman drummer in college in NYC I can say a lot of this is true. Most of the upper classmen play a few gigs and go to jams, but are more focused on their online presence. This video definitely gives me more confidence going into the music business. Thanks for all the advice Nate!
the most down to earth music channel on youtube, saludos desde Colombia.
Read ahead, had to comment - I totally agree with the email. Literally just had a lengthy conversation with my wife about what we should do differently in terms of advising our twins (even though they are only 4...)
My contention is that if someone had sat me down and explained, "you will have more freedom to make music and be an accomplished photographer IF you choose a job path that lets you leave work at work"
Instead, I have this Music Education degree that I no longer want to use (defeated by the public school system - string programs are on life support) and I have to hustle twice as hard now because a music degree might as well be a participation ribbin to any other employer
I would literally be a better musician and closer to where I want to be artistically if I had just been an assistant manager at McDonald's
Blake Jones wow great story - thanks for sharing
but people have been telling you this would happen well before it happened.
What do you mean “defeated by the public school system”
I ask because I had an interest in getting a music education degree.
I’m a drummer and percussionist by the way.
@@markmunoz3951 If you really want to teach music in an academic environment, then go for it. However, a lot of people get into it because they really just want to make music - but also need a "day job" and the only skill they have is music. Proceed with caution if you're in the latter group.
Great video, insightful and Very honest. Thanks for keeping it 100.
Awesome historical analysis, and great discussion! Thanks for the video. The gig hustle is a tough but beautiful struggle!
“Say no to crappy physical gigs” ha nice try, trying to steal all the gigs
I don't even play drums, why do I watch this?
Because you want to play drums
Good overall advice, despite the instrument : )
Me too
Kinda hard for you, Nate. "Um, I thought I was hiring Nate Smith. Who are you?"
None of us really got into music for the money anyway. I dis the whole "gonna be a star" thing...even got signed to a major in the 90's. The sad reality is that I make WAY more money playing weddings (typical wedding gig for a GREAT band is $500-$700 per musician in my area) than I ever did while "living the dream". Have a job....then make whatever music you want to make. If it hits....then it hits. Just remember, you are doing something that you love and would likely do for free anyway.
amen
Bass player here. Cool video, thanks for uploading. I learned!
So we're not firing this drummer?
what about playing house shows? i had a band back in college into my mid 20s and we played house parties about once a week. no one cared about making money. it was completely just for fun and we had a blast.
Jeff Rittenour yea that’s great when it works - I had a similar sitch in undergrad and it was awesome
I personally think this is spot on. At the core adapting to an industry/culture that moves and morphs. Lots of creative people cling to solid uncreative view points (me included) and they suffer and struggle as a result.
Thanks for the inspiration, and challenge, as always.
Nate, it's interesting to learn more about your musical and educational background! Thanks man
You are not full of it. You are awesome. Specially the last part about bringing back the online gigs to a real place. Supernice.
Yo, besides your great practice/educational videos, this is hands down the best video so far.
IMHO, you can continue in this direction and be an influencer .there are so many confusions about the industry. Keep it going and keep it real.Cheers
I thought this was a fantastic review of the options for getting better and getting heard. He explains it in a really clear way, with an interesting visual presentation.
Nice video! Though I think that the "hang out" part is more important. Like in every business, people tend to hire people with whom they have good time, even if they are professionally (in this case musically) slightly less competent.
What you went through is almost identical to what I'm experience ten years later! I led the 5th Estate Jam Session a couple times, lol. So sad.
well done sir! love your vids and your feel is awesome..
"Restaurant gig in Dumbo" Perfect. This is good stuff man. Yep, don't wait for phone to ring, 100%.
"Joe" was me :0
No mention of buying new cymbals.
Great advice.. unfortunately I missed out on opportunities and had to pay bills lol. But you were pretty much spot on .
The hardest part is finding and getting “ good” musicians in the same room…
I think one of the dilemmas is (and what I experienced in LA in the late nineties) how does one provide for oneself as a young person in these expensive places long enough to develop a lucrative career as a musician? Having a full time job that pays the bills creates a major barrier and disincentivizes the pursuit of a professional music career, not to get into how much it costs to build a professional internet studio if you have impressive enough chops to warrant a bunch of drummers watching. It seems it requires an incredibly supportive family and at least some “long term” financial support from parents (and more likely a trust fund). If you’re completely on your own...
Yes, have wealthy parents, not a bad way to be a "professional musician".
i hate when people say that others are jealous of their talent when really they are jealous of their success despite of it
Cool video dude! Lots of parts resonated w me... I also come from jazz, went on to tour the world w major artists and now "make a living on the internet" as a musician. I shall look forward to more good stuff from you!
Great vid. And quite accurate. At 62, I play in 3 bands, gig a couple times a month. I gave up on the "music business" many years ago. And I'm the son of a full-time drummer who did major Broadway in the 80's among just about everything else. I only play music that I like with players that are 1) really good pro, ex-pro etc and 2) not dicks. Life is too short, I want to play good music with good people. If it doesn't pay much, too bad. I am now in the process of setting up a modest home studio/video space in my house. Digital gigs? Sounds interesting----thanks for doing what you do Nate, I know I appreciate it.
Very interesting topic Nate ! I've been involved in the music industry for a very long time. As a jazz musician working and learning doesn't provide the same opportunities that we had 50 years ago. You had more options in learning and developing your craft. In the eighties and nineties the music club scene began to change. Many clubs went out of business because of the noise policies in many NY city neighborhoods. It was very difficult to gig unless you were playing in more established venues and many of them went out of business. You had to learn how to invent new strategies in how you could work. If you had other skills and resources it was how one was able to sustain in this. As I would share with my students you had to be a jack of all trades. Oyeh Nate excellent work and keep being you.
65 here, also playing in 3 bands regularly (70's tribute band, Country and Jazz) as well as the occasional subbing date. I hold down a very satisfying day gig that I achieved over several decades of leveraging my MA in Music (proves that I have the capacity to learn and utilize what I've learned) to move my way around in various manufacturing industries and positions to become a technical writer. This was after 20 years of schlepping, wedding gigs, house gigs and long term engagements playing shit gigs for shit money. Once I got solidly in the day gig where I had steady income and bennies a funny thing happened. I stopped taking every gig that came along and began taking gigs that MEANT something either on a personal level (I liked the people that I played with...they happened to be great musicians) or the music was satisfying...I guess that was personal too. As I got older I found more time to practice, I was getting more quality work than I could imagine and I didn't have to miss my kids' soccer games or plays. In fact, I was playing in the pit for some of them. All while working 40 hours a week. I did lose a job and spent a year out of a day gig and thankfully, I had gigs to supplement my unemployment. I reinvented myself for the day gig and realized I could do that musically too. Reinvention is liberating! Now, for the last 15 or so years I've been happier than ever.
I think too many musicians are locked into the "traditional path" for success. If there are as many GOOD bassists, sax players and pianists waiting in the que, PUT YOUR OWN BAND TOGETHER! Scrape some cash together and get some recording done. Pump out an album and promote it. (Don't wait for a major label. There are independent alternatives like Bandcamp.)
0:23 - 2:00 your playing in the background is seriously good!!
Great suggestions IMO. I just moved from a large city with a deep musical lineage to a small one with new and growing scenes; and I feel like these tips are equally relevant in both places.
Your videos have gotten even better recently Nate, and the playing sounds great too
Fantastic video! Would be awesome to update this in the midst of the pandemic. It seems in the last two years that online gigging became all but necessary, but people also became more itchy for live music.
I live in a relatively small rural town where there are maybe a few gigs to be had, but there certainly isn't any saturation of jazz musicians. Before 2020 there was a restaurant/bar about an hour from me that had a jazz night where random musicians would just show up to play together (free experience and a discount on food if you play) but they haven't started that back up since 2020. Knowing local musicians has helped me as an amateur, as I've gotten to sit in on more gigs than I imagined coming back here from the city. There aren't really ringer gigs out here, it's just "good hangs" (and maybe a few bad hangs), and I shiver at the thought of trying to compete somewhere like NY.
It seems like it's only gotten harder to find gigs, but it's hard to tell from here in rural Virginia. How is the NYC scene changing and responding? More of the same trend we saw in 2019, or has it generated something different?
My strategy was to build a great practice, play space in my basement. It's still under construction but because I am a drummer that comes with space, I get more offers along with can we come play in your space? :)
“Be fully ready for the first 100 gigs to suck...”, This is so important and true. I’ve got a more critical ear than I have talent, and this is just... true.
love the video, great advice! what's that ride by the way? it's got such a lovely sound
Great video commentary, Nate...you're totally right on! Hey...you play with Evan Francis...awesome! Evan and I went to music school at USC together! Regarding Jazz places that no longer exist in the city: Auggies..not too far down Broadway from MSM (possibly the most disturbing Jazz venue to close.) That place used to be a great Jazz venue with low prices featuring well-known and up and coming Jazz players sitting in all the time...trying out new idea...a place where connections in New York's Jazz scene were actually made Ultimately closed and became a club (which shall remain nameless) with expensive cover charges and few to no chances for hip up and coming cats to play.
This is a documentary. Well done!
Really dig the drum interludes
Very insightful and inspiring (kinda like always). Thank you!
0:20 “I’m a pro drummer looking for pancakes, can you help?”
I needed you in my life, I didn't knew it
You are about as controversial as a NPR editorial piece on national parks honey bees
This! 👆
Great thoughts and ideas. I always enjoy your videos.
Just found your channel today. I like (#667) your channel, because you explain in this video with good clarity....and watching you I learn something. Thank you very much!
we have all been replaced by Machine , WE R NOW CURIOSITIES.
Bill Bruford once said (in 1980's), "Did the advent of drummers beginning to all sound alike give rise to the drum machine or did the drum machine give rise to all drummers sounding alike?"
Really good video man.
Man. Excellent content. Thank you!
Music, one of the most important things in the world and musicians still struggle to pay their daily bills.
Mundo loco!.... ven a Europa!...LOL
O ven a Japon especialmente para jazz
I really enjoy your content, man! Subscribed
Unrelated but can you do an 80/20 breakdown of Jack Dejohnette drumming style?
Think ocean waves and wind in the trees with a drippy faucet in the background. On a serious note, he once opined that he strove to get his single strokes as fast as his doubles. The mystery deepens....!
All you gotta do is make sure it is indeed his fucking tempo
The fact that your name is Nate Smith is hilarious
your videos are really insightful even though I don't play drums, haha
excellent advice
Good video. I've been a working musician for close to 20 years, and everything you said rings true. It really comes down to creating a reality that makes you happy rather than hoping for other people to bring you into their reality and make you happy.
oj drummin wow nice! Glad my experience resonates
It depends on each person, but I would say I would have taken more to finish up recordings/compositions and then decided if they were worth "distributing" at a later date. Also, I would have focused more on the really basic stuff before trying to do all the fancier stuff.
Love the fill at 4:28
Thanks for this video, very interesting and thoughtful!
great content, greetings from Germany
Two Wedding Band leaders didn't like this video and I guess when some more of them and some DJ's get a look the number will increase
Golden wisdom
Impressive video.
Honest content. Keep it up!
This is such a cool video, thank you!!!
This is awesome!
best lesson yet
AW thanks fam
nice!
at the end..do you (can you) just play drums for living?
You're wearing a JiuJitsu tshirt, I shall now listen to everything you say. OSS
Great video!! Keep up this kind of videos!
Isn’t it Jon Robinson on bass at 8:25? I think I played with him
Excellent vid, man. To your request at the end: It doesn't dovetail with my experience at all, and you are NOT full of it :)
More importantly, is that you playing w/ Matt G. at 3:32? Talk about being one of the guys on the scene that's a "good hang..." He's a great, great guy. As I'm sure you know, if that's you playing w/ him. Tremendous musician too. If you see him on the regular, tell him Dworkin said hello! Peace...
Yea been a few years since I've run across Matt (or hung with Dave Kain, who was the bandleader), but he's good folks. How was your experience different? I already suspect my situation was unique, and fully admit I could've pushed harder and been more tenacious in the early/middle years. I'm not sure I'd trade my situation now for anything tho :P
@@8020drummer I love that I found, quite randomly, someone who has played w/ Matt. Way cool. As for "How was my experience different?"... I'm gonna just say things haven't gone well for me, and leave it at that. All the best to you!
3.33
Is that "The Shrine"?
yes
Do you have airpods?
“Yes, I’ve seen the movie Whiplash.”
Nice vid!
If I could get a gig I would hire you.
johnny vibes lol
I don't see anything controversial here, seems like solid and timely advice to me.
"You almost had to respect it."
What's the tune in 3 at 4:23?
Of Dreams to Come, by Robert Glasper, from In My Element
as with "the other nate smith" I notice that you use mix of zildjians and istanbuls
doesn't every drummer strive for endorsment deal anymore?
odolany waste of time. If a cymbal maker offered me a great deal, and I loved their cymbals, great. Otherwise, what exposure/prestige is an endorsement giving me that I can’t get myself with this channel?
Sheldon is sooo talented!
James Mason asaaaw thanks fam
The 80/20 Drummer ... just joking mate- great video 👍
This a bit off topic, but I think I'm in the wright place to ask this. I studied with Tony DiNicola, ok took private lessons, don't wanna sound like a snob. Now, I realize this is subjective, but I saw a clip of the "top" hundred drummers, and many jazz drummers were included Max Roach, and others, and Tony was not there. Now I realize he's not as well known as Buddy Rich, but in my opinion he's a bit over rated. Tony played with the likes of Harry James, and old blue eye's himself, Frank Sinatra. I trust at least some of you have heard of him, and hopefully heard him play, so my question, if you haven't guessed, is do you think he belongs in that top 100 list? Thanks in advance for any reply.
My background is not jazz. It was punk, rock, prog rock, punk, jazz jams, rock covers etc. Most of my bands were friends then people who knew me from drinking but then I sobered up and started to play jams for fun and the best musos ended up forming a band so another way to meet people. Also at one of those jams I met a veteran band who played jazz clubs and said they said at the jams they could never get enough drummers so asked me to attend with them. I did then started to sit in regularly. I did get fed up of hearing "feather the bass drum." When you grew up playing along to John Bonham jazz is seriously difficult. I like to play heel up and loud accenting on e and + etc. Jazz musos like you to play hell down. For me it was a training ground like having a scorecard with items to tick off that was my jazz category ticked off. My heart is in punk but means rock is not too far of a stretch and the prog band turned up at my house having heard me walking along a path on the opposite side they could hear but couldn't tell which house so went door to door until someone said that noisy b**tard at the end. Once again prog was a training ground with different time signatures etc so I got to play a whole new style but while this is going on my other career was picking up so I was playing fewer and fewer gigs. This isn't uncommon but at one point I was playing 7 gigs a week especially playing covers. I would say master of nothing but I was always willing to turn my hand to anything and that is why I got a lot of gigs. One band even approached my father with a studio recording and to give it to me then come along and play on it. Musicians find a way to meet other musicians in my experience.
what city do you live in
ice la honk I got out of cities and I am now in the middle of nowhere where my internet connection is shaky as anything and any touch of snow becomes a death trap because it is me and a few tractors on them. Some people can bear cities all their life but not for me.
@@heftyalan1152 yeah i'm 5 minutes from time square. we'll see how long i last here. much prefer to live on a nice piece of property with woods and water.
ice la honk I am a few miles from woods but once in them I could walk 20 miles and still not walk a road with cars on it. I love it but I could not be a serious musician here as just not the work. There did used to be 2 places to drink one for walkers and one for bikers but now both closed.
Enjoy your videos! So, Nate, how much money is there to be made via UA-cam videos? What's up with a drummer like Sina who in many cases gets more views than the artists she's covering? That's sort of a rhetorical question. More power to her. Do you know how many views are necessary to start capitalizing on UA-cam videos and what's the story behind that capitalization? thx
A million views is worth between $1200 and $3000, according to other UA-camrs who have covered the topic. Depends on how many minutes of your videos they actually watch.
Monetizing a UA-cam audience of millions via ads is like trying to lift a suitcase with your mind. I earned 15k last quarter from 80/20, and I’ve only got 31k subs. (Not a flex - more an “if I can do it anyone can”)
Sina expained in a video she is not earning anything from her drum covers, ad money is going directly towards the music right owners (otherwise would be illegal), even if her covers accumulate more plays than the actual artist's song
Thanks MrWerty! No ill will towards Sina. She seems very passionate about her drumming and has a following for sure. @@MrWerty1999
I have held an opinion that the 80/20 drummer may have put to rest. The opinion is that a sight reading musician would be able to find gainful employment in the industry. Is that no longer the case? Have opportunities become less and less for those with this skill set? If this is the case, I may have to reread The Death of Expertise by Tom Nichols.
Trying to get jazz gigs sounds great, but when you consider the fact that Jimmy Cobb, who of course played on the best selling jazz album of all time is now effectively begging for money online to help support himself, I’d say that it seems like a lot of guys are looking for very few dollars. How many people are actually making a living playing jazz drums full time?
I dont want to be a drummer for a living, but I sure did enjoy this video 👍👍
Drummer at 10:25 .. damn!!!.. fun vid thanks
Ofri Nehemya!
Don't have an end result "I've made it". Have a method "everyday i...."
3:32 - Adam Sandler on tenor sax
That’s Matt Garrison on tenor-I think the band is called “The Jazz Name Confusion Experience”