Bill Browder - Putin’s Kleptocratic System Brought to the Edge of Collapse by Putin's Disastrous War
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- GUEST: William Felix Browder - financier and political activist.
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From 2007-08 Putin came to believe that the West would offer no resistance to his expansionist aims. It’s at that moment he pronounced a more assertive Russia, and started to act accordingly on the world stage, and in relations to neighbouring countries, with the invasion of Georgia in 2008, and Crimea in 2014. NATO provocation is one excuse given for Russian aggression but it’s unlikely he saw NATO as a threat and must have known they had neither the intent nor capability to directly threaten Russian territory. This series of miscalculations have led Russia into a disastrous war and may have led Putin’s kleptocratic system to the edge of collapse.
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SPEAKER:
William Felix Browder is an American-born British financier and political activist. He is the CEO and co-founder of Hermitage Capital Management, which at one time was the largest foreign portfolio investor in Russia. The Hermitage Fund was the best-performing fund in the world, and the primary investment strategy of Browder was shareholder rights activism. Browder took on large Russian companies such as Gazprom, Surgutneftegaz, Unified Energy Systems, and Sidanco, but this led to retaliation, and eventually he was refused entry to Russia, deported to the UK, and declared a threat to Russian national security.
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BOOKS:
Red Notice: A True Story of High Finance, Murder, and One Man's Fight for Justice (2015)
Freezing Order: A True Story of Russian Money Laundering, Murder,and Surviving Vladimir Putin's Wrath (2022)
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#billbrowder #ukraine #ukrainewar #russia #zelensky #putin #propaganda
#war #disinformation #hybridwarfare #foreignpolicy #communism #sovietunion #postsoviet
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CHAPTERS:
01:50 Yeltsin's second term - total chaos and anarchy with no rights or rules
06:26 The targeting of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, and taking control of the oligarchs
08:43 How western shareholder capitalism came into conflict with Putin's kleptocracy
12:29 Magnitsky act - a strong legacy that enraged Putin to mark a terrible crime
15:07 Putin has succeeded in punishing and killing many of his main opponents
18:42 The messages Putin sends to the elite through killing his rivals
20:55 Pulling out the FSB / Siloviki system root and branch - how can it be done?
24:18 Putin always found a way to intimidate and manipulate other heads of state
27:32 Watch out Putin will never deescalate, if there is a chance to gain victory
31:15 Putin is relying on Western hesitancy, disunity and reluctance for 'total war'
39:05 Ukrainian issues with Russian 'liberals and should we fear ultra-nationalists
42:13 All political voices that are tolerated are not independent in Russian system
46:12 Is the West doing enough to bring victory in the war, and change in Russia?
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PLATFORMS:
Twitter: / curtainsilicon
Instagram: / siliconcurtain
Podcast: open.spotify.com/show/4thRZj6...
Linkedin: / finkjonathan
Patreon: / siliconcurtain
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Great admiration for Bill Bowdler totally opposite of everything Putin stands for. Started off on what must have seemed an impossible task and now is totally vindicated and supported.
🦢🌊, swan lake for Putin.
Thanks Jonathan for a great interview.
you are a naive full. Putin is one of the greatest and most honest politicians of our times and it will be him who will rebuild Ukraine, not this despicable liar and oligarch who was expelled from Russia.
This guy's a legend. A stalwart and a thorn in Putin's side.
An old Czech proverb says: "Anyone who wants to beat a dog always finds a stick to do so.." More than half of the world admires Putin and how he helped the downtrodden, especially those in Africa.
“I’ve gotta be lucky everyday, they’ve only gotta get lucky once.” - The use of that phrase was powerful.
That struck me too…
“These are not human beings. These are crazy persons."
-GRU defector, Col. Stanislav Lunev, about Russia's top leadership.
"I want to warn Americans”
"As a people, you are very naive about Russia and its intentions. You believe because the Soviet Union no longer exists, Russia is now your friend. It isn't, and I can show you how the SVR [formerly KGB] is trying to destroy the U.S. even today and even more than the KGB did during the Cold War."
“the Cold War never ended." The American people, however, are not fond of listening.”
-Spymaster, double agent and Russian defector Sergei Tretyakov
Decent guy goes to Russia. Stays decent. That's enough to make him a hero. Do as he says he is a gentle man with substance and integrity
A terrifying dissection of a monster. Only wish it had been an autopsy! Thank you both.
yes, can terrify those who are inherently naive i guess, but for many of us, it's not terrifying actually. How do u think detectives deal w/ hard core criminals? its precisely the same, except on a far grander and more complex scale, involving not just money, but central banks! Yes, this will be a slog, and imho, a coalition of the willing may be necessary to provide air power to assist Ukr in taking back it's territory, so that the fabric of international stability is restored. Letting something like this viking warlord rule vast swaths of the world while menacing the entire world and all of european civilization, is not ok. Time's up on Ru. It shall be demilitarized.
Hopefully Biden continues to use the power of US $ and the huge US military industry to grind Putin and his machinery into a pulp. Stopping his mafia will be another matter entirely.
The way things are going the past few days, I feel sure he'll be there to discuss why Putin has fallen from power and /or been torn limb from limb by an angry crowd.
It’s not just Putin and Russians.
We have the same scum here in America called Republicans. Those traitors are the same and need to suffer the same fate.
Time to take the gloves off and get rid of these scum.
Great interview. I’ve read his book and listen anytime he’s on media. The story of his lawyer’s fate always gets to me. I think about how many of my friends became lawyers in my country and imagine such a horrible death happening to them merely for doing their job and testifying in court about corruption. Thank you as always.
yep, that is how things cycle in the history of corrupt/criminal societies. We can think it another way in terms of international affairs: this is not a test.
Bill is unknown to me. What happened to his lawyer?
Mr. Browder is a true hero! Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦 🇺🇦 Heroyam Slava 🇺🇦 ♥️
Bill Browder is what a truly strong man looks like in action. Strong enough that Putin should be both envious and uncomfortable. Respect.
Thanks for this.
Great to see you and Bill Browder talking! Bill is an inspirational hero who has been sounding the alarm for a decade. Thank you for this interview, Jonathan.
👍
How is Georgia not under severe sanctions for torturing their former president? I keep hearing about this man's appalling treatment but hear no politicians or world leaders speaking out about him.
Yes, and is a amnesty international these days..
All the snippests of Putin's ruthlessness I've previously heard suddenly crystalised thanks to this excellent interview with Browder. Now all illusions are lost. Biden was right - this man cannot stay in power, for the sake of the World.
Bill is such a clear compelling communicator and inspiration.
Sir, if you happen to read this, thank you so so much.
I've heard Bill talk at length at least twice before and this is still so inspiring.
..
Edit:
ua-cam.com/video/94bqk8cB9iQ/v-deo.html
I've read his book and heard him speak 4-6 times, and he is fantastic! I don't get tired of hearing his story. Before I read the book, i thought, "Oh, this is sour grapes or revenge or something," but it is not that.
He's right about Putin. 100%
Putin must be stopped
I don't understand why all world leaders don't get this about Putin. Or do they? And they are afraid? I know the USA warned US citizens to get out of Russia because they will be targeted by Putin. Picked up for some "crime" and then tortured. Which must be happening to many people. Maybe that's what keeps foreign leaders from speaking honestly about Putin. Might have a friend or loved one in Putin's torture chambers. God, what have they done?
I'm sorry but Bill doesn't go far enough. Even if Putin is dead, the war needs to continue until unconditional surrender is achieved, all the nukes need to be dismantled. New governments controlled by the ukrainians need to be installed with war crimes trials held in Moscow. Followed by public executions with mandatory attendance . Putin should be publicly tortured, his assets should be distributed to his victims. His enablers should be made destitute, and made to sweep the streets
I have a huge admiration for Bill Browder. He is such an inspiration to all of us! Thanks so much for your bravery!
yeah it's called conviction and as a fellow american i've seen so little of it in the men i've been aware of all my life until now, at age 53. Mediocre men have had too much power in these united states, and the entire ultra conservative arena is run by them.
This gotta be stuck in every Russian ear
@@eddybrevet6816 Did this psycho inspiring you? go see a doctor.
Could not admire and respect more Bill browder, true hero.
This currently little channel is an absolute gem. Bill is a stand up guy, I always enjoy hearing him speak.
👍
Brilliant and brave, brave man. More power to his elbow!
I wish more were like Bill Browder.
Well done for getting him on your podcast. Great interview.
Being an American is what has saved Bill Browder.
His lawyer died because he refused to lie and blame Browder for corruption.
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi
Smal changes can lead to bigger changes.
We cant all be like Bill Browder, but we can do a litle bit. 🌱
Greatings from Demark 💕
Slava Ukraini!
💙💛💙💛💙💛💙💛💙💛💙💛💙
RayC., Wishing that "more People were like this Remarkable Hero Bill Browder IS JUST LIKE Wishing that more People were like Saint Freancis or Asisi ‼️❤️❤️❤️❤️👍🙏✝✡☪🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦❤️‼️
Ray C,, OOPS❗️Saint Francis of Assisi🏌. ❤️ To you ‼️👍
Bill is Rolling Stones new drummer replacing Watts
Wow! You got Bill Browder on your channel! 👍🏻😀🇬🇧
I was very excited you were having Mr Browder on your show! I never get tired of hearing his story or his insights into how the current Russian government operates. Great questions.....and much better sound quality than some of your recent guests.
Yes, Bill is well set up for media interviews!
Hello Jonathan & Silicon Curtain… Bill Browder is probably the most knowledgeable person on the planet, along with your many other astute guests, on the realities ‘inside Russia’ . Thank you for sharing this poignant conversation, I wish Bill and Silicon Curtain the best, as always… Cheers 💖!
👍 you’re so kind, thank you!
Brilliant Interview ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
👍
@@SiliconCurtain
I would like to see an interview in regards to the phenomena of Londongrad and the role that ruZZian misinformation played in Brexit. I am subscribed to a few UK based UA-cam channels and there seems to be a reluctance to offer anything on these topics, if not abject denialism.
Side note: Boris Johnson championed the son of a ruZZian Oligarch into the House of Lords.
@@mrnobody3161 I second this. A good source might be Jamison Firestone, the owner of the law firm Magnitsky worked for and apparently as tireless an advocate for reform as Browder.
@@mrnobody3161 That would be a 1st Rate topic Hoping we could see your suggest come forward 👍🏼
Keep up the good work!
👍
So interesting and informative.
Putin is zipping up his own body bag.
Slava Ukraine.
Hahaha! I love "Putler zipping up his body bag! "! I' m gonna repeat that all over the Internet
Forgive me I hadn't heard of Bill Browder I wonder why the build up prior to uploading this video.. I see why now,the man's warmth humanity and intelligence Shines through.. I think I've been getting more emotional since this war or I've been over empathising if there's such a thing ,but I felt tearful 12mins in when he mentions his lawyer Sergey having his life cut short at the hands of brutal thugs.Great interview ,great and brave man standing up for truth and justice in the face of Russian intimidation,more power to him and you SC and thanks for another excellent interview!
Read his books- they are absolutely fascinating!
@SiliconCurtain 😊 thankyou, i shouldn't be surprised he's a talented writer too!
I hope we all get tearful as well listening to what happen to Sergey. He was a very brave man.
@@DeniseSyrett 🙏
Praying you will be lucky everyday, Mr. Browder. Your loss would be a loss for the entire freedom loving world.
Everytime I hear Browder I learn more. He is a brave and brilliant man.
The same sanctions don't apply to China because there is so much that is imported from China that cheap stuff that people buy from Walmart and Amazon suppliers would put life as most people know it into a tizzy. Geez. People might have to use cloth diapers instead of disposable ones, for example. And before everyone comments that they have never been in a Walmart, we have to admit that we let the Main Street and independant phamacies, cobblers to fix our shoes, etc go into the past forever and have a world of synthetic clothing, throwaways, single use plastics. It gave our societirs the unprecedented wealth so that even our poor are not as poor as they once were, food is cheap, especially. Americans and Brits got fat.
That’s the big difference, apart from raw materials, Russia does not actually make anything that we buy…
@@SiliconCurtain Yup.I almost deleted my comment thinking I may be too way off topic
Thank you very much for inviting Bill Browder. Thank you for your good , insightful videos.
Inspiring interview with a great guest. I have been following Bill Browder since his first book came out. He clears away any foggy thinking about what we are dealing with, and I wish more of the west would take notice.
Thank you
You have been ringing the alarm and now it’s ringing everywhere and won’t stop until he is stopped. Europe has been his best sponsor of terror. This is where we are now. Sorry, nobody listened.
A truly inspiring man. Thank you both very much for the information.
Compelling interview. A very brave man. Thank you.
Another very brave man. Also, he's a good communicator and seemingly a very good man.
Great respect for Bill Browder 🙏 Thank you for this interview. 💐
Great interview Jonathan, sobering interview, Bill is a brave guy, 2024 is a worry, Putin doesn't believe US resolve can or will last
Bill, with all the respect, Putin first years also had some very strange appartment bombings.
That was to blame Chechens and attack them
When Bill Browder speaks, everybody should listen. Huge, huge respect to him. Outstanding interview, thanks for the upload.
👍
brill blowder has spoken, year has passed, no changes. two more weeks, amirite?
Oh wow .. my question re Kara-Murza answered- Save Kara-Murza - Save Navalny!!! Great talk - Thankyou!! Totally agree with all said ✌️ from Oz 🙏
This is a brilliant interview and should be forwarded everywhere in the US and Europe. Help us keep sanity and hope alive in the world and forward it. .
Thank you for sharing your incredible story, Bill. I wish you all the best on your quest for justice.
Prescient, enlightening, concise, informative, inspiring and clear. What a very interesting and intelligent man and like so many others he’s experienced some truly harrowing things. There’s alot to digest here, but it’s very easy to understand. Thankyou to all the people involved in getting these interviews to people and to those involved.
What a great guest!! I was wondering what he thinks about the huge amount of apolitical Russian people & how to wake them up? How we can help, if we can help. I really appreciate his decisive description of Putin. He seems to know & understand the upper echelon well. I enjoy the talk! Thanks 🤍
People in russia are not apolitical just in suvival mode, they Just know brutality and prefer to put their heads in the sand
1420 YT channel did a vox pop of Russians incognito, it was refreshing to hear their real views.
very interesting
Good one
Rivetting - thank you both of you. I seek out Bill Browder's inerviews frequently. Just to pick one point - how come "ordinary" people like Grannies (me) constantly scream at the continuing naivite of our western leaders over their dealings with Putin, imagining that a) he will tell the truth - EVER or b) that he would negotiate in good faith a "peaceful" settlement. He appers to run rings round them all. Jane Soole Dorset England
Wish our politicians in the UK had as much intelligence, insight, and integrity as your guest.
Thanks for this interview. I knew that sooner or later the two of you would meet here. Kudos to both of you👏👏👏
Thank you for this interview.
Bill Browder seems like a great guy.
Anyone who still doubts the true nature of the Russian regime, or hesitates in support for Ukraine, should listen to this grimly fascinating conversation.
👍
I don't know what it would take for the majority of Russian people to believe that Americans sincerely want to help and not 'make us all gay' or 'steal all our resources'.
It really pains me.
Thank you so much for this great discussion.
Thank you mr. Browder . Very good conversation .
Another incredible episode
Great respect to Mr Bill Browder! You are such a great person with a tough mind and a kind heart. You understand Russia and Putin so well and also communicate well to the west audience.
You have a great show and are an excellent host and interviewer👍
Hope Bill is right about how the Russian regime might move towards democracy but it does seem WW is going to be required.
It’s amazing & fantastic that Bill has survived. Maybe the balance of friends to enemies has become so heavy on the enemies side, they can’t keep up.
I fear it’s optimistic…
world war is far far worse than a regional conflict that would be a coalition of the willing (incl. probably the US air power) helping Ukr finish this war up. It's not all or nothing, ie not WW vs leaving entirely to the Ukr's to somehow invent a military capability that usually takes 20 years and far more assets than they're being handed currently. This is a war by Ru against european civilzation, and once that is understood by us, we ....will....fight this war.
One of your best!! And that's saying something based on the continuous stream of excellent guests you present to us. Thanks for all your efforts!
Wow. Terribly frightening, and eye opening at the same time.
Thank you for a great talk and insight in how Ruzzia works.
This might be the most illuminating video I have seen on UA-cam. Thank you both for your time and effort.
👍👍👍
A very interesting, educative and informative discussion Jonathon. Thank you. 👍
This deserves very wide dissemination
I just finished Browder's book "Freezing Order". To say it is an eye-opener is a vast understatement.
All great comments on Putin’s state of mind and how Russia operates in a KGB environment.
That was trully chilling.
All I can say as a UK citizen , I will never knowingly buy ANYTHING Russian again .
Well worth listening to thank you
How could members of Western governments have forgotten Neville Chamberlain and his "agreement" with Hitler?
They have not
Neville Chamberlain, Benito Mussolini from Italy and Édouard Daladier from France signed the Munich Agreement with Hitler. It is astounding that the British, Frence and Italians were able to make this decision FOR a third. country. It is, I have always thought, the way other Europeans, thought of people they believe were inferior because they were not ethnically the same as them and, face it, there was, until this past year, a very strong bias against people speaking slavic languages.
The appeasement in question was not a stupid choice, but rather one of necessity. As Chamberlain pointed out, most accurately, if the Soviets ever got into Eastern Europe, how the hell would the West ever get them out? It is very easy with the hindsight of time to look back at the decision and deride it, but history actually proved Chamberlain to have been entirely correct in his estimation of the threat of the Soviet Union to Western civilization. It is much easier today to stomp on the Russian tyranny and to hopefully destroy it in it's crib. The truth of the matter is that the Germans, and Hitler, actually did a heroic job of holding back the red tide to a very great extent. There was no question in Stalin's mind but that it was his intent to overrun the West and rule it all with a very heavy hand.
@@thomasjamison2050 Stalin's dark money helped Hitler come to power. British oligarchs delayed the development of whittle's engine till the war was over. So it's a lie to say Chamberlain gave England breathing space
@@mikefallwell1301 So, you know so much more than Churchill did. Pity you weren't around at the time to guide that poor man's way through some of the darkest days the West ever faced.
Brilliant interview !
Bravo Bill & Jon!
Thanks for the discussion. I have so much respect for Bill Browder.
Ponder on this: Intergenerational Trauma/ Inherited PTSD. Russia has over 1,000 years of accumulated trauma. It's no wonder that they cannot manage to resist their government and get their own house in order.
Albert Einstein said: "Earth is the Insane Asylum of the Universe".
Short of some Mystical Benevolent Intervention, perhaps ruZZia requires; a time out in isolation in the rubber room that is their country now.
I thought that was what the '90s were. Not the cure we hoped for.
@@kkpenney444
Eh, not quite the same thing.
@@mrnobody3161 fair enough.
With what the world is learning about trauma recently, i think you are spot on
Everyone in the West, especially politicians, should see this interview. Poland was warning about this for years and was called paranoid, if not worse. Turned out the way it turned out.
From Canada: Please note that (two days after being published ) less than 8,000 people have seen this. I hope readers of these comments take it upon themselves not to merely give a thumbs up but to forward it as much as possible. Those who agree give a 👍. Then send it out.
FULLY AGREED 👍
EDGE OF COLLAPSE !
AMEN 🙏🙏🙏
Browder is a hero.
You have done VERY good 😁.
👍
Good discussion, thanks.
It is an outrage what's happening to Sakashvili. He's shamed Putin by showing how someone should come out of the KGB and turn into a real public servant, and that's more than Putin can handle.
That period when Buill was doing bvusiness in the Yeltsin years really was when Russia had the true Oligarchy, when they all banded to together to help Yeltsin beat Communist Party leader Zyuganov in 1996. I heard some commentator say only the other day, froget who now, maybe one of the retired Generals on TImes Radio or a Silicom Curttain preserntstion, that in defeating the communists in 1996, by hook or crook, we may have gotten something way worse. I tend to agree with that assesment. Another interesting thing about the Yeltson era, Iforget where I read this , possibly a boiography of Leonid Kravchuk (first President of a free Ukraine) that back then the Russian nationalists had plans to seize Crimea but Yeltsin put a stop to it, not because he cared about Ukraine so much, nut more because it would set a precident for the Chechens to leave Russia, "Hey if Crimea can leave Ukraine we can leave RUssia!" type of hypocrisy he wanted to avoid. Intertesting stuff!
In all interviews I've seen with him, Mr Browder presents a clear sense of compassion & decency that breaks the Wall Street stereotypes.
As a member of the "choir," I enjoyed the "sermon."
Thank you.
Thank you, Silicon Curtain, for the excellent close captions and another outstanding guest! This interview is so refreshingly honest and stimulating
Brilliant again....thank you!
Browder is always a treat.
All we have to remember is this "The higher Mr Putin and his regime goes, the further they have to fall".
Please interview Martti J. Kari to get deeper understanding of "the mind of Russians". He is a great lecturer on the subject.
I’ve found him on LinkedIn, and just reached out… thanks!
The integrity, ethics, humanity, and smarts of Bill Browder are impressive. Its a pity that he doesn't seem interested in serving as a politician. Surely this guy would serve the American people and by extention, the world, better than any of the current opions.
When the use of nuclear material in London in 2005 by Vladys received no effective push back as a NATO redline, the die was cast. Servility and money laundering trump our actual security. The first Leader that looks Vladys in the eye when he threatens Nukes and says "Try, we will make you Ground Zero for our Nukes, neither you or your flunkies will escape and Russia will be an ash pile too," gets my support. He needs serious push back.
Lots of R.I.P.s to the brave, honest man Sergey Magnitsky, appreciation for what Mr. Browder did for Russian people and decent people worldwide, this ex fund full time manager is no less a hero from business community than Sergey from legal community if we ever get to compare those huge history figures. This is biblical and about those genuine men's steel balls at the same time.
Thank you, a brilliant interview/discussion
This was a really insightful and excellent interview!
Your introductions are always concise and informative.
I am an American and I would consider myself a Republican. And not one that goes back and fourth between voting Democrat sometimes. And I can tell you that this is an issue with me and I think it will be for other republicans. If we think our representatives won’t support Ukraine, then they won’t get my vote. So I believe you will either get a democrat in office or you will get a republican that WILL support Ukraine next election.
We are fighting for our survival. Jonathan is right when he says that this is like the first world war.Even the poetry of Wilfred Owen resonates.
Compulsory listening for all diplomats dealing with Russia
Russia is not a huge country. It is a huge display of Russian accumulated regional governments and resources. Ukraine is another government and set of resources that Putin would prefer to call Russia. Perhaps this fact will percolate into all these federated governments and they will withdraw their support. I can dream.
"Viking warlord kingdom" 😆
It’s unimaginable, I can’t get my head around it
Reading "Red Notice" at the moment. Great book.
How awesome. A Human Rights advocate is born from business in Russia.
Thank you Bill, the word brilliant does not come close to describing this discussion. It has, though, left me feeling hollow at the sense of there being no model or idea on how to firstly, end a conflict of attrition, and, secondly, put in place the seeds for democratic change in Russia. It all feels horribly intractable made all the worse by the West’s leaders talking about arriving at a place for appeasement, which won’t end the conflict. Is there any end in sight for the next generation?
Excellent explanation of how Putin and the Russian power system work and what to expect from them. One point: we are already ramping up production of artillery ammunition to better meet the needs of the Ukrainians. We aren't making as much as needed yet, but we're cranking out a lot more, and we're getting there.
It's a cliche, but true - Putin is the closest thing to the reincarnation of Hitler that we are likely to see in our lifetimes. We need to respond to him the same way.
Next is Xi ... plenty more fascists to be cleaned ...
Just ordered "Freezing order" - looking forward to reading it !