Massive thanks for this series. I especially appreciate your transparency when encountering problems and making mistakes along the way. Many of these are familiar from my own experiences reloading shotshells. Like you, I came to it from metallic cartridge reloading, and was shocked by how unconcerned with helping their customers make best use of their products the producers and purveyors of shotshell-reloading tools and components appear to be. Even the instruction booklets often look like 50-year-old reprints. Shotshell reloaders lack, and badly need, the kind of comprehensive, up-to-date user guidance available in the metallic reloading sphere, so you're making good a really important information gap here.
Same with my experience learning shotshell . Coming from reloading metallics is a different world . I made the mistake of buying some components without regard to hull type . I would love to have more data . I have about all BP s manuals but they sell a huge bunch of wads that you will never find data on . Something else is , lets say I got a finocchi and a cheddite hull same straight wall hulls with a little difference in base wad height , they should and do use the same wads , but they will not have data listed for both hulls using the same wad . Ive come to the conclusion shotshell loading is like a voodoo spell gotta have the exact piece of eye of nuewt and right piece of horse feather to make the spell work
This is an excellent video series…I’ve never seen such an in-depth journey down the shot shell reloading “rabbit hole”…your content is one of a kind 👍👍👍
Later, if you need more rigid over shot cards, try out the Clear Segmented Over Shot Cards. Since the final crimp is where 99% of your shot column compression comes from, they allow a little more compression. Just be careful not to bulge the hulls too much(it's a feeding issue), although a little bulge is ok as long as it still chambers easily.
I am wondering why you are using Blue Dot because it is hard to ignite and normally used for heavy 3" loads. It needs the back pressure for good ignition. I think a little faster burning powder would give you higher velocities and better patterns.
Blue Dot also does better with a magnum primer. I agree Longshot is hard to beat for payloads from 1 1/4oz thru 1 3/4oz. Blue Dot is what I use in my 3.5 buckshot rounds that are 2 oz and 2 1/4 oz of lead with a hot primer. Federal 209A which should just be written on the friggin box that it's a magnum primer cause them babies be HOT 🔥
Nice! I really like your approach. My vote is for the 16 guage card wads (in the right size of course) with the cork. Regarding the nitro cards on top, I think they are too hard for lead. Might work for tungsten, but lead will get flattened all across the bottom...... And same as everyone else, I'm enjoying watching these videos!
Now I know not to pinch the shotshell... Great series! supercomp65 had some good factors I hadn't thought about. Crimp and what type does affect pressure. Be careful.
You should use a slower drill speed. Lock the trigger to only allow that speed. You will also get much better consistency using a drill press with the ram travel set and locked for each shell length. Both of these will provide the best and most consistent crimps possible
One thing to think about, how much do all those cards weigh? Moving extra mass will take some of your velocity away, but I'm not sure if you are adding enough cork or felt to really make a weight increase.
They were designed and used over the powder and in direct contact with the shot , before the invent of plastic wads also called "over powder card" and "under shot cards "
I wonder if you are overthinking it... lol. You should put that on a t-shirt. Maybe try 3dprinting an ABS solid card. You should be able to print a small shape no problem without the ABS issues... shut off the cooling fan and give it a try. Then shoot it with a string so you dont blow your face off.
Time to get serious! Ditch the Lee press and get a MEC Jr. or better. Also, get a drill press for those roll crimps, and make them about twice that deep. You really should be fold crimping that birdshot anyway. You're using tapered wads with straight-walled hulls, too.
The general rule of thumb when working up shotshell loads, is that there is no rule of thumb. You go by the book and you don't deviate or substitute. Recipes must be lab tested due to the huge amount of variables in the load that effect pressure. By the time you see danger signs like with metallic cartridges, you are well into catastrophic failure territory. The balancing act that goes on inside a shotshell can only be compared to that of a nuclear reactor. The basics of which are if you increase payload's mass, increase the length of the shot column, increase the thickness of the wad, decrease the cushion, increase the hardness of the payload, increase the payload's tendency to rebound off itself ie it's springiness, increase powder charge, use hotter primer, decrease the internal volume of the hull, using a fold crimp vs a roll crimp are all things that increase pressure and the inverse generally has the opposite effect. While the end result coming out the end of the barrel differs very little from it's old black powder ancestors, the internal ballistics of the modern smokeless shotshell are considerably more complicated and cannot be accurately predicted like we can with metallic centerfire reloading.
Good to see you here CW, I hope you're doing better and I hope you had a good Christmas. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty excited to see JRB put his brand of OCD on scatter gat reloading lol. I figure he'll either get hooked or scared off by all the options and combinations available for loads, hopefully he get's hooked!
@@joearledge Hello Joe! Yea shot-shell is a-lot different then metallic reloading! I have also wanted to start a series with shotshell slug but havent gotten the drive to. I did do a couple 410 videos and just did a 410 Slug yesterday. Its quite popular. (Many views) Hope these are good for "Johnny".
I don’t understand why you’re worried about building a 3 inch round for the same load weight…imo, the only benefit to 3 or 3 1/2 is to get a higher payload of shot in…?
Years ago...I heard of dropping wax on the 6 and 8 crimp to seal the case. No ideas if that is feasible. Ive seen shells with it done but ive never done it myself
For long term storage the extra sealant is a good idea, how long is dependent on the local humidity and how they are stored. Obviously if you live in Phoenix not a concern, if your in Atlanta it could be an issue in a few weeks.
I'm telling you, you would thoroughly enjoy reloading 300 HAMR for AR or bolt action. A set of Lee dies is all you need since you already have the brass, primers, powder(s), and bullets for 300 Blackout. 300 HAM'R is everything 300 Blackout supers wish they were. If 30-30 wished it could be loaded into an AR mag and fired, it would be 300 HAMR. 300 HAMR in an AR is easily 200fps faster than 300 Blackout. 300 HAMR from a bolt gun is up to 150fps faster that from an AR. A Ruger American Ranch AR receiver with a 300 HAMR barrel conversion kit mounted in an MDT LSS-XL Gen2 chassis uses 223 MDT mags with a 308 footprint. This means you aren't restricted to the COAL of 2.260". Meaning you can use Barnes 110/120gr bullet in 300 HAMR. This is your caliber. I'm telling you!
Might be cheaper/easier/faster/less worrisome/more repeatable to use granulated filler, cornmeal or other, on top of powder, or on top of an over powder card, and/or as a fill material mixed with the shot. When you look into it, you find guys cramming all sorts of stuff everywhere in the shot column...stuff like puffed wheat, oatmeal, rice, dried beans, Cherrios....it really makes you wonder if folks overthink shotshell reloading. Many factory loads make use of fillers....especially when filler is mixed with the shot, it's advertised as a performance booster or shot density enhancer.
Let's talk about powder migration. It's wanting to happen with you Blue Dot loads but it'll be really bad with longshot or any smaller flake powders. Buy you a 3/4" paper hole punch and cereal boxes beer boxes any thin cardboard like that works great. Use it as an over powder card. The AA12R is designed for tapered hulls but the TPS wads and similar are designed for straight wall hulls like you have they are notorious for powder migration. Hope this helps and good luck! Really enjoying the shot shell loading videos!
Thank you Mr. Johnny. I really enjoy your videos! I noticed that you have filled your wad (orange) way past what would be considered full. I'm nothing but a novice at shotshell reloading, but I've never seen or loaded up lead shot past the end of the wad like that. Wouldn't that really cause issues with patterning? I just though I'd ask. Thanks again for all your videos! Much appreciated!
Ideas on your target stand, at our club we use rebar frames. I don’t know if you have a welder but super simple to make and tabs to hold a cardboard backer.
Massive thanks for this series. I especially appreciate your transparency when encountering problems and making mistakes along the way. Many of these are familiar from my own experiences reloading shotshells. Like you, I came to it from metallic cartridge reloading, and was shocked by how unconcerned with helping their customers make best use of their products the producers and purveyors of shotshell-reloading tools and components appear to be. Even the instruction booklets often look like 50-year-old reprints. Shotshell reloaders lack, and badly need, the kind of comprehensive, up-to-date user guidance available in the metallic reloading sphere, so you're making good a really important information gap here.
Same with my experience learning shotshell . Coming from reloading metallics is a different world . I made the mistake of buying some components without regard to hull type . I would love to have more data . I have about all BP s manuals but they sell a huge bunch of wads that you will never find data on . Something else is , lets say I got a finocchi and a cheddite hull same straight wall hulls with a little difference in base wad height , they should and do use the same wads , but they will not have data listed for both hulls using the same wad . Ive come to the conclusion shotshell loading is like a voodoo spell gotta have the exact piece of eye of nuewt and right piece of horse feather to make the spell work
This is an excellent video series…I’ve never seen such an in-depth journey down the shot shell reloading “rabbit hole”…your content is one of a kind 👍👍👍
😅 Another series I will never put into practice, and yet I can't wait until the next episode! Keep 'em comin' "Johnny"!
Hope you end up loading some buckshot someday. I like the HCD21 wad with 12 #1 pellets behind International or Longshot.
Later, if you need more rigid over shot cards, try out the Clear Segmented Over Shot Cards. Since the final crimp is where 99% of your shot column compression comes from, they allow a little more compression. Just be careful not to bulge the hulls too much(it's a feeding issue), although a little bulge is ok as long as it still chambers easily.
Watching Johnny spill a load of shot on the bench brings back memories.... Nice to know that I'm not the only one to have done this. 😁
I am wondering why you are using Blue Dot because it is hard to ignite and normally used for heavy 3" loads. It needs the back pressure for good ignition. I think a little faster burning powder would give you higher velocities and better patterns.
Long Shot or Pro-Reach may be good alternatives to try for the load he's working with.
Blue Dot also does better with a magnum primer. I agree Longshot is hard to beat for payloads from 1 1/4oz thru 1 3/4oz. Blue Dot is what I use in my 3.5 buckshot rounds that are 2 oz and 2 1/4 oz of lead with a hot primer. Federal 209A which should just be written on the friggin box that it's a magnum primer cause them babies be HOT 🔥
Nice! I really like your approach. My vote is for the 16 guage card wads (in the right size of course) with the cork. Regarding the nitro cards on top, I think they are too hard for lead. Might work for tungsten, but lead will get flattened all across the bottom...... And same as everyone else, I'm enjoying watching these videos!
Wade Rush, addressed this issue with 1"x1" paper napkins/paper towels on bottom of gas seal works great
Now I know not to pinch the shotshell... Great series! supercomp65 had some good factors I hadn't thought about. Crimp and what type does affect pressure. Be careful.
All your fillers are what provide the cushion to keep your pressures low.
You should use a slower drill speed. Lock the trigger to only allow that speed. You will also get much better consistency using a drill press with the ram travel set and locked for each shell length. Both of these will provide the best and most consistent crimps possible
One thing to think about, how much do all those cards weigh? Moving extra mass will take some of your velocity away, but I'm not sure if you are adding enough cork or felt to really make a weight increase.
I'm learning so much about shotgun shells that I never knew of before.
I thought nitro cards were made to go over the powder?
technically yes, but they can be used for other things like under shot cards.
They were designed and used over the powder and in direct contact with the shot , before the invent of plastic wads also called "over powder card" and "under shot cards "
I wonder if you are overthinking it... lol. You should put that on a t-shirt. Maybe try 3dprinting an ABS solid card. You should be able to print a small shape no problem without the ABS issues... shut off the cooling fan and give it a try. Then shoot it with a string so you dont blow your face off.
you could use a kitchen scale to get wad pressure for your roll crimp...may not be perfect but more consistent than "feel"
Time to get serious! Ditch the Lee press and get a MEC Jr. or better. Also, get a drill press for those roll crimps, and make them about twice that deep. You really should be fold crimping that birdshot anyway. You're using tapered wads with straight-walled hulls, too.
This is good stuff! Never done any shotshell stuff but I did just get a slug barrel and it makes a man think... Plus slugs are just insanely priced.
Slugs are fun get yourself some molds and cast your own . Rotometals has all the lead and antimony also get a 69 caliber round ball mold
Check out Bubba Rountree Outdoors here on YT. Lots of good buck and slug loads.
Jrb likeing the series keep at it brother.
The general rule of thumb when working up shotshell loads, is that there is no rule of thumb. You go by the book and you don't deviate or substitute. Recipes must be lab tested due to the huge amount of variables in the load that effect pressure. By the time you see danger signs like with metallic cartridges, you are well into catastrophic failure territory. The balancing act that goes on inside a shotshell can only be compared to that of a nuclear reactor. The basics of which are if you increase payload's mass, increase the length of the shot column, increase the thickness of the wad, decrease the cushion, increase the hardness of the payload, increase the payload's tendency to rebound off itself ie it's springiness, increase powder charge, use hotter primer, decrease the internal volume of the hull, using a fold crimp vs a roll crimp are all things that increase pressure and the inverse generally has the opposite effect. While the end result coming out the end of the barrel differs very little from it's old black powder ancestors, the internal ballistics of the modern smokeless shotshell are considerably more complicated and cannot be accurately predicted like we can with metallic centerfire reloading.
Its definitely surprising 😅
😂😂😂👍🏼🤟🏽🤘🏼
Good to see you here CW, I hope you're doing better and I hope you had a good Christmas. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty excited to see JRB put his brand of OCD on scatter gat reloading lol. I figure he'll either get hooked or scared off by all the options and combinations available for loads, hopefully he get's hooked!
@@joearledge Hello Joe!
Yea shot-shell is a-lot different then metallic reloading! I have also wanted to start a series with shotshell slug but havent gotten the drive to. I did do a couple 410 videos and just did a 410 Slug yesterday. Its quite popular. (Many views) Hope these are good for "Johnny".
@CW hey cw hoping see you here with some wisdom to jrb on his journey.
I don’t understand why you’re worried about building a 3 inch round for the same load weight…imo, the only benefit to 3 or 3 1/2 is to get a higher payload of shot in…?
Getting weird in here 🤤
Years ago...I heard of dropping wax on the 6 and 8 crimp to seal the case. No ideas if that is feasible. Ive seen shells with it done but ive never done it myself
For long term storage the extra sealant is a good idea, how long is dependent on the local humidity and how they are stored. Obviously if you live in Phoenix not a concern, if your in Atlanta it could be an issue in a few weeks.
😀😃😁😄👍‼️
Thank you
I have seen a few recipes that use regular cardboard made with a punch in place of the fancy components.
I'm telling you, you would thoroughly enjoy reloading 300 HAMR for AR or bolt action.
A set of Lee dies is all you need since you already have the brass, primers, powder(s), and bullets for 300 Blackout.
300 HAM'R is everything 300 Blackout supers wish they were.
If 30-30 wished it could be loaded into an AR mag and fired, it would be 300 HAMR.
300 HAMR in an AR is easily 200fps faster than 300 Blackout.
300 HAMR from a bolt gun is up to 150fps faster that from an AR.
A Ruger American Ranch AR receiver with a 300 HAMR barrel conversion kit mounted in an MDT LSS-XL Gen2 chassis uses 223 MDT mags with a 308 footprint. This means you aren't restricted to the COAL of 2.260". Meaning you can use Barnes 110/120gr bullet in 300 HAMR.
This is your caliber. I'm telling you!
The factory load shot charge was on the bottom of the wad
Shot above the wad cup is not good for patterns !!
Little bit longer taking game video please?
you're also using the crimp roller too fast and too much pressure to quickly. Get yourself a cheap Harbor Freight drill press for your reloading room.
Might be cheaper/easier/faster/less worrisome/more repeatable to use granulated filler, cornmeal or other, on top of powder, or on top of an over powder card, and/or as a fill material mixed with the shot. When you look into it, you find guys cramming all sorts of stuff everywhere in the shot column...stuff like puffed wheat, oatmeal, rice, dried beans, Cherrios....it really makes you wonder if folks overthink shotshell reloading. Many factory loads make use of fillers....especially when filler is mixed with the shot, it's advertised as a performance booster or shot density enhancer.
Putting the felt in felt recoil
Eliminate the variables and put the filler on top of the load!
How do you make a brass case sir?
Can you 3D Print your own shot cup design or mimick one... Dare I say... Haha
What happened to not using any cork or felt in the wad? That seems like the most likely combination to provide you with better velocity.
Waa wad isn't the best choice on a straight wall hull.
Let's talk about powder migration. It's wanting to happen with you Blue Dot loads but it'll be really bad with longshot or any smaller flake powders. Buy you a 3/4" paper hole punch and cereal boxes beer boxes any thin cardboard like that works great. Use it as an over powder card. The AA12R is designed for tapered hulls but the TPS wads and similar are designed for straight wall hulls like you have they are notorious for powder migration. Hope this helps and good luck! Really enjoying the shot shell loading videos!
Yep! or till you get the hole punch, you can use 12ga overshot card or nitro cards as over powder cards.
@@joearledge your right they work great too. 3/4" for conventional style loads and 5/8" for use inside a wad.
Thank you Mr. Johnny. I really enjoy your videos! I noticed that you have filled your wad (orange) way past what would be considered full. I'm nothing but a novice at shotshell reloading, but I've never seen or loaded up lead shot past the end of the wad like that. Wouldn't that really cause issues with patterning? I just though I'd ask. Thanks again for all your videos! Much appreciated!
I'm lovin this Johnny !!! I'd like to see you get good accuracy with a slug and a rifled barrel. You can do it !!! Question, why tungston?
Need to get 20 gauge nitro cards or smaller to fit the tsp wad. My guess is the claybuster wads will have a lower velocity and notvkick as hard.
Ideas on your target stand, at our club we use rebar frames. I don’t know if you have a welder but super simple to make and tabs to hold a cardboard backer.
I could never find much load data for using felt and fiber wads. I'd love to get my hands on some
Is there an actual difference in what you called Magnum Shot?
Magnum lead shot is a much harder alloy than pure lead, designed to avoid deformation of the pellets during firing for improved patterning
First hehe