@@KnownNiche1999 people say white people are evil. if the Chinese sailed the oceans and landed in America they'd conquer the land just the same, for no less noble a cause
Why not? I think it would be more likely that this film would be shown with better results today. From what I understand for all of the old people calling young people snowflakes and thinking they retain some sort of originality they sure do forget how much music, films, and even books could banned just due to maybe a few swear words in them or if it, discovered the creator was gay or something of the sort, or had a differing ideology, something I've seen happen much less in today's environment. But suddenly we are the sensative ones, and than my generation and people close to it get to start their young adult years with a nearly early depression as if we aren't already handling something more controversial than a film, helping to provide for sick or a nearly broke household. I mean you'd think in a day in age where the sky is still orange and bits of ash are falling in the west coast you nostalgia junkies would quit trying to get your fix.
@@rainbowthesaurus6253 Yes, you are oversensitive snowflakes who demand that any piece of fiction get banned or changed because you deem it to be "problematic". You are wimps that need to grow a pair.
Gotta say. Love this scene. The Colonel didn't even try to morally condemn the Chief or his people. He even said they were equal in their cause in very clear terms. The Colonel is not insulting Sitting Bull, he's trying to lay out a very uncomfortable truth that he himself probably hates as well.
Of course you love it. You probably also love it when someone responds to a secretly recorded racist diatribe by, say, the white owner of a professional sports team: “Blacks are racist too!” The only problem is that you’re missing the obvious: what Miles is saying is completely irrelevant. What the Sioux did to the Pawnee, etc., didn’t justify the United States government’s “Manifest Destiny.” Does might prevail? Always. But that doesn’t mean it’s right. And that’s what’s missing from the dialog.
@@Phineas1626 Bro he Literally didn't say that it makes it right he said quite the opposite you're arguing a point that he already agrees with and that's that both sides aren't really noble
@@rexriply You missed my point completely. Instead of addressing the situation at hand-the US government forcing natives onto reservations-he launches into a tirade about how native tribes were killing each other before the white man arrived, which is completely irrelevant. Why is this important? Because the US has held itself up as a beacon of morality for centuries. You don’t get to make such claims AND unilaterally break treaties. Forget the bullshit logic of “we’re just doing what you did first” and focus on the current issue-the justification/rationalization of ‘Manifest Destiny.’ Of course, this meeting is likely heavily fictionalized, but I think Sitting Bull would have come up with a better response. Miles was one of the better officers in the Army, but he was still horrible. After calling the massacre one of the worst slaughters of woman and children in the Army’s history, he backtracked after initially withholding his endorsement for several of the Medals of Honor given to soldiers. Alas, no worries. Sheridan was far worse. If I ever see that guy’s grave, I’ll probably piss all over it.
@@Phineas1626 War and conquest are a part of human history, colonel miles was just pointing out Sitting Bulls and the other Native Americans hypocrisy you think when American Indians conquered land from each other they put each other onto reservations? No they exterminated the entire tribe, the European Americans showed more mercy towards them then what they ever showed towards each other I’m sorry if it triggers you
As a First Nations native, it annoys me when people, and even my relatives say that we were peaceful people. When in reality, we weren’t even close. Not everyone’s history is peaceful and right, and that was kinda a hard pill for me to swallow about my people, but I’m just glad that I did. I still love my people and my culture of course Edit: Obviously some debates going on in the replies. Why don't we all just settle down and share a peace pipe.
priest S'fox Like I said, I’m a First Nations native. My ancestors were warriors who waged war with the Cree and other tribes for land and power. Far from the tree loving stereotype that liberal media likes to portray us as. So when people say MY ancestors were peaceful, I find it insulting. And honestly, I think my ancestors would find it pretty insulting as well
priest S'fox So the scalping and raiding of neighbouring tribes for land, game and resources is just sport between us, right? It’s all love, no war, right?
priest S'fox it’s not even a cultural thing though... they exist in all cultures. Whether it be someone who turns bad or has a mental illness that makes them do bad things. There is literally no debate.
As a Native American myself what I love about this scene is the authenticity of it. So much of our history is BS noble savage nonsense. That crap doesn't help people come to terms with who we are, what happened, how it went, where we are and where we are going. A hundred years before the Whites arrived the Sioux Genocided the Pawnee, Crow and other Native peoples to get the Black Hills it wasn't sacred it was just a resource they needed to survive so they did what they had to do, just like the Whites did. As I tell my children we fought our selves as much as we fought the Whites no one is to blame learn from it be proud and move forward.
My British ancestors were conquered many times. I view their history with pride. Native Americans were at a huge technological disadvantage when europeans arrived. They defended their home with unparalleled courage and resolve. I have great respect for the people who came before me on this land and i hope one day we can all live here and be proud of what we created after the wars were over.
@@vernonlemoignan1392 I have nothing but respect for all other peoples. I don't want the land given back, Whites to leave or reparations. After all most of us are mixed up anyway. Besides no White person alive today committed Genocide on my People just as no one in my tribe committed Genocide on them. We should remember the past but not dwell on it.
Well said. I am Cherokee, so the plains conflicts were very different ones from the costal tribes, but you make a good point. I hold my head high when I think about my ancestors. The people in this scene were probably here 200 years - not colonizers. People don't look at the complex issue cleary.
the way Col Nelson speaks to Sitting Bull is almost exactly the way William Henry Harrison spoke to Tecumseh 65 years earlier. these guys had a knack for getting under the Indian war chiefs skin using their own mannerisms and modes of speaking.
The person who wrote this script is genius. I can guarantee he/she went through several versions to get that speech as perfect as possible. Then to top it off with, "This is Truth, NOT legend!" It's very hard to argue that point!
@@Moaul-ve9ve dont forget the Bolshevik jews killing millions of white christians before ww2. The holomodor. Also dont forget the fact that the jews were kicked out of over a hundred countries before Hitler got his hands on them.
Redpill= historical fact/truth of a subject matter. How amazing is it that in just a few decades, media and education institutes have demolished the foundations of truth and what we believe as fact vs fiction today. They have completely subverted not just the United States, but the entire world's perspective.
As an Umóⁿhoⁿ or in otherwise Omaha Native American myself, this was sometimes hard to watch or hear but even now I cannot deny the truth of Colonel Miles’ words.
I'm sorry my friend for the past.But you are also 100 percent American like the rest of us now. Love ya and thank you. I'd give my life and fight beside you anyday my friend.
@@chaffee87 U sir, R a gentleman and a scholar. The only thing missing from the officors speech is that there was one diffirence. The Europepeans offered a way forward open to the indians. Join us, work, use our system. And many indians did, and became prosperous. I go further. I think no native american would like to go back to the ways of his ancestors.
@@freemason4979 , using barbaric logic to kill and invade peoples homes and steal thier land and you swallowed it 🤣🤣 , what if i used that same logic on my next door neighbor?
Probably the most interesting movie dialogue between two men I have seen. Both guys sit down talk and declare each of their points very well. Love both the actors in this scene and their acting...
All Strawman arguments, BUT, THE FACT HE DID CALL OUT THE U.S. GOV./MLTRY In Giving Them The GUNS N POWDER TO WIPE OUT The other Tribes In Minosota/ (send In THE LAKOTA SIOUX to do THE DIRTY -WORK/HEAVY LIFTING Still not a Great Argument, they obliged.
Bro... That single speech just made me change my entire outlook on the conquering of native lands that I've believed for 20 years... Because he was true.
It is a shame that it takes a dramatized movie to wake so many up, when people could have just read books growing up and recognized this earlier, so that in the culture we have today this wouldn't even be a question, just an acknowledged fact .
You've swallowed barbaric logic as justification to invade , murder , and steal another mans property, what would happen if i used that same logic on my next door neighbor ?
You don't get to claim property with no defined borders or written code of law. That's called anything goes. When you want "anything goes" and then cry like a beeotch when things don't go your way it just proves you were always weak and have earned the outcome.
@@hungsolow7090you would get arrested, because you aren’t the power of the land, even your own property. The laws of conquest apply to the strongest entities in the given area. If this was 1780, and you and your neighbor lived in the middle of nowhere with no government oversight, sure, you could conquer and take his land, and no one would do anything about it, but we don’t live back then, and we don’t live in a time where you can escape government reach. The strongest entity on your property isn’t you, it’s your government, hence why you can’t conquer shit, and the government can. If you don’t believe me, look up eminent domain.
This is a good scene. No one is right, no one is wrong - they're just equal in the worst way. It's very human. The fact that Sitting Bull is in denial of this is troubling, but so is the fact that Miles is completely okay with what he's doing. They're two sides of the same coin - the only difference is that one of them doesn't know it.
I think as far as Miles being ok with is goes, its more of him trying to justify it since Sitting Bull denied any wrong doing by his people so Miles in his own mind atleast shouldnt be held accountable.
That is well said. Our species have been around for a little more than a hundred thousand years. We became the dominant species over the many different other species of human. We're an animal desperately trying to figure it out and trying not to wipe each other out. I don't give a damn what anyone says. Humans are by far more interesting on Earth than any other species of this planet.
@@BlackRose85789 Are you Fucking stupid? The majority of People on welfera are black and whites and no one wants you to be scared budy Just dont play the victim.
@@cuahtemoc7642 hahaha, so it's ok for non white to play the victim but when someone who isn't and is accused of doing so it's wrong? Truth fucking hurts when you know that you have no claims, no back up, not even evidence. I think just pure jealousy that whites have done better things then some non white folk. But since you need proof on who's on welfare. I'm sure this video and the numbers will explain it all. ua-cam.com/video/KFG0qyyppdU/v-deo.html
@@BlackRose85789 hahaha look at Europe now fool full of Middle Easterns. USA full of Asians immigrants. Your day welcome buddy don't worry. But please don't act like you don't deserve what you're getting.
@@nicholasrodriguez4990 Hear, hear. Canadians could stand to learn from this. As much as I like Tecumseh, he was far more honest than Sitting Bull. He actually was willing to acknowledge he wanted to create a native nation, and make deals with the British. It was actually brought before the courts in London itself, and debated, however, Sir Isaac Brock died, and his successor wasn't really a fan of Tecumseh. But Sitting Bull was in complete denial.
Real talk, Miles at this point in his career was a decorated war veteran of both the Civil War and earlier campaigns against the Comanche, Kiowa, Southern Cheyenne, and Arapaho. Sitting Bull had fought in three battles. The difference in real world combat experience between these two men was pretty vast.
I would say a difference between idealist(sitting bull) who sees the world through rose colored glasses, and a realists(General Miles) who sees the world as it is.
@Danny Tallmage Yeah, that was the only possible way to ever carve out some land against the weight of a nation united. Lessons that were learned on the large continents elsewhere in the world through thousands of years of conflict and countless civilizations ended. The story of the indians is not a unique one, only recent.
@Voornaam Achternaam what makes them savage tho I'm confused...because we didn't use forks...or how our women gave birth with out screaming or crying.or is it the fact we dont believe and bible that was written by man and changed multiple times about this "god" or "jesus" fellow..I dont see nothing savage about us...we used all and every part of an animal that we killed
@John R right they are privileged...just the other day...that dude who built a 200 pound bomb for DC gets 20 years if convicted...notice I said if...there words after he admitted.....20 fucking years but I know a black kid I grew up with got 25 years for selling just weed....weed only and only has 1 dwi from when he was 18...10 years ago...smh...all these public shooting...they plead insanity but one person of color shoots but dont kill the person gets life for attempted murder...smh our system is busted like a hill billy's teeth lol
Let’s be real, everyone conquered everyone. Europeans conquered other Europeans, Indians conquered Indians, Asians conquered Asians, Africans conquered Africans. It’s just human nature. People act like the Norman conquest didn’t happen or Genghis Khan wasn’t a conquering warlord. 🤷🏻♀️
People that hate America do not understand that unending war and slavery was the norm UNTIL America. It birthed this dangerous and infectious virus called freedom. You are not a subject. You are a citizen. Even those we conquer become citizens. Look at our relationship with our former enemies. Japan and Germany. America is Righteous. And it is all the world has got.
As a Spaniard, I hate it when people try to make us feel bad about South America too. As if the Aztecs and the rest were some earth-loving peaceful hippies before our ancestors arrived...
“Chief Sitting Bull, the proposition that you were a peaceable people before the appearance of the white man is the most fanciful legend of all! You were killing each other for hundreds of moons before the first white stepped foot on this continent. You conquered those tribes, lusting for their game and their lands. Just as we have now conquered you for no less noble a cause.” should be carved in stone as eternal truth
But it’s not. Driving people out of land isn’t war in a sense where it makes sense to the typical us soldier. That’s just migration, as a soldier of the us, they were accustomed to total war. Which isn’t a method of war for the native people. Homicide was hardly a motive when going to war, you must understand. And the Chief is right, the whites armed the Indians and probably encouraged them (they did a lot of instigation, due to their western expansion) therefore it it very clear it is wrong to assume Indians murdered each other in the droves of his assumption. This isn’t truth, it is human nature. But the truth of the plot is that white people, particularly americans. Are responsible for the many conflicts in the plains. And even in the Middle East today. But history tends to fly over dence white americans.
this scene is truth. wrong or right doesn't matter when it comes to these things. if you're hungry you're going to find a way to eat, and if anyone gets in your way you'll remove them. this is all of human history . there are no Good guys when there isnt enough for everyone.
all human races have blood on their hands. My Celtic ancestors have done horrible things to each other and other peoples just as the native Americans have done to each other. There is no human race with clean hands
I have ancestors of every people group who are considered native to Britain and my Saxon ancestors killed and enslaved my Celtic ancestors, then later my Norman ancestors came and conquered and butchered my Saxon Ancestors, I also have some Norwegian and Danish ancestors who came and conquered the Danelaw in England and the Orkneys in Scotland, and groups of my Scottish and English ancestors drove them out. It's the cycle of history, no people group hasn't been a victim and no people group hasn't been an oppressor. We have done a disservice with oversimplified history.
@@johncantrell9993 It's almost like people should stop being resentful about history and just treat each other with the same kindness/respect they would want to be given by others.
But modern people with pretty cushy lives have appointed themselves judges of all humanity past and present... Given the proud human mutt that I am. I have blood from both sides two major genocides. The holocaust, I include Polish Jew and German from my mother's side. And the trail of tears as I have English and Cherokee ancestry from my fathers side. So, yea..
No one is saying there is, but people have the right to their ancestral lands. We do in Europe and Indigenous people do here. It’s about the land and the justification to take more from those who have less than you, so you can have more. How perverse.
This is a nuanced and intelligently written scene. Two men from different worlds, but who're similar to each other in their pride, their determination to argue their position, and the role they play in the great game of war and civilization.
Pretty much what Miles is telling Bull is that the Americans are doing exactly what they’ve been doing to their own people for years and years, but better.
@@creamychoclatelobsterwarri979 Yes. As much as native activists would beg to differ that is colonialism. The likes of modern warrior sees no equivalence. It’s bad when the white man conquers native land and settles there but it’s fine when a native does the same thing to another tribe. The native tribes conquered land and fought until they became the conquered themselves. And the cycle repeats itself
I am a full-blooded American white man. I do feel bad for what was done to the Native Americans; it was a terrible thing. However, the truth here is that they were not innocent spirits, they were human just like everyone else: capable of great cruelty and malice. The fact that people want to pretend that humanity is something it isn’t is worrying
@@californiacombativesclub202 Ah, right, the effects of white imperialism, such as civilization, the industrial revolution, modern technology, everything that makes your miserable life comfortable.
@@dutchvanderlinde5004 It is factually wrong that the Souix committed genocide against their own race. They may have committed several massacres but never exterminated an entire tribe. Native Americans always would take survivors and naturalize them, actually that's where the USA got the concept of naturalization of immigrants. The facts are that everyone is going to die. The guns were the weapon that allowed for the massacres. There were no mass slaughtering of people before the whites came to the continent. Expansionism was taught by the Empires of Europe. Not the nations of America.
@@edwidgewhatsosons1727 the natives taught the english how to incorporate the surviving conquered? Sure it wasn't the dozens of past empires to exist in europe which did the same for millenia?
@@buzinaocara Empires and Aristocrats had a memory of survival skills and hunting that the peasants and serfs did not. The colonies were not Aristocrats besides a few notable figures like Roger Williams and a few Governors who still knew what natural laws and common law originated from in the Nordic countries. Yes, there was a brotherhood in the Aristocracy and the Tribal peoples. This is why they made treaties and married into each other's families. The Cherokee notably would check the hands and feet to ensure that they were marrying blue bloods. It is very common knowledge that American Indians like Joseph Brant were in the Masons and the indigenous people held a form of government and shared many values in common with the secret societies. The difference here is that in the Native American societies every person was a trained fighter, survivor, and could start a new band or clan without much help at all from anyone else. They had skills to fight and do medicine. They could make bread out of wheatgrass. In the South Americas they invented Rubber and back in Europe the peasants many times revolted at the sight of seeing a returning Conquestador wearing clothing that repelled the rain. What idiots those Europeans were!
It always amazes me that Indian tribes in North America were slaughtering each other for thousands of years before the first European set foot on the continent, but yet it was only bad when the "White man" conquered areas there.
Antiochus IV Epiphanese the Europeans didn't either. It was disease that killed most of the Native Americans. A thing that neither was really capable of stopping.
Antiochus IV Epiphanese Really? That analogy can be used for when the Natives we're pushed on to Reservations, but before that? The minute Europeans stepped foot in the Americas and traded with the Natives, the Natives started dying. This was hundreds of years before Europeans and Whites even knew what bacteria was so they could start handing out smallpox blankets. Native Americans and Europeans treated each other the exact same way they treated other groups when they first met. Everyone was racist back then and everything was racially motivated. Native Americans didn't slaughter European settlements because the Europeans were genocidal racists. They did it because they hated white people who were competing for land and resources.
matthew gallaway Hitler never blamed Jews for his defeat. Where are you getting this from? And the Vietnam war was rigged from the start by capitalist fucks.thebus entered because of the gulf of Tonkin incident which was revealed after the war to never have happened. The us was made to follow war laws that put them at a huge disadvantage against the Viennese soldiers who didn’t have the same laws to follow. The laws were debatably written to keep the war going longer than it should have. War generates unprecedented amounts of wealth. So you should read more. Just saying :)
Antiochus IV Epiphanese where is your information coming from. You seem to be claiming a lot of things that nobody alive today could possibly know. Www.imright.com? You are so full of shit I’m gonna call you Johnny
Incredibly honest scene Both sides have just causes and brought to an inevitable confrontation. The film portrays the complexities of history very well
No, the barbarians have no just cause. They are liars, murderers, rapists, and cannibals. They deserve ZERO sympathy. No one violently genocided them but each other and some sneezes. Maybe spend less time murdering, raping, and smoking peyote, and actual develop some actual medicines. If they claims to live off the land so well, they'd be strong enough to handle illness. LIARS!
@@Sul8866 The French were the first Europeans there and named much of the area. Fond du Lac, Lacrosse, Faribault, Mills Lacs, Saint Clair, even words like "Prairie" are French. Its official motto is L'Étoile du Nord, French for "The Star of the North". Before European settlement of North America, a subculture of Sioux called the Dakota people lived in Minnesota. The first Europeans in the area were French voyageur fur traders who arrived in the 17th century and began using the Grand Portage to access trapping and trading areas further inland. Around the same time, Anishinaabe (also known as Ojibwe) migrated westward to Minnesota, causing tensions with the Dakota people. Explorers such as Daniel Greysolon, Sieur du Lhut, Father Louis Hennepin, Jonathan Carver, Henry Schoolcraft, and Joseph Nicollet mapped the state. So yes, it's well established that the French traded steel weapons and firearms to the natives in exchange for a variety of goods and services.
Also, keep these things in mind. Horses were brought over by the Spanish, and the guns the "natives" are holding were also brought over by Europeans. They were not peaceful people who just lived off the land. They also were trying to conquer, but Europeans were more advanced, organized and successful .
@Cali God That's really a piss poor understanding of what transpired to collapse the Aztec Empire. The Spanish didn't really have much to do with it beyond Cortes was a Spaniard. He was not intended to have been the leader of the third expedition into the Yucatan and was to be arrested had he not engaged legal maneuvers to declare himself a magistrate. The fact that these lesser tribes allied with him was not coincidental either. His expedition was to make alliances with these tribes, all of whom had legitimate grievances with the Aztecs that made them vassal states. They didn't assist, they were allies of Cortes that planned with overthrowing the empire that was using them for human sacrificial offerings. This was in fact jeopardized by the Spanish when they sent another fleet to recuse and recall him, forcing him to take Moctezuma hostage. After Moctezuma's death and Cortes's initial retreat, the Aztecs could not sure up the loyalties of their tributaries and many of them would support Spanish conquest.
@Cali God Was it though? While there are more that share native lineage, few share any actual heritage. The Aztec revival movement provided an ethnic identity that is very vaguely of Aztec tradition. Furthermore, comparing that to the US is impractical as the US gene pool is far more diverse from years of very open immigration policies. With the number of first, second, and third generation citizens, its rarer to find native ancestry. This is even further complicated as many tribes refuse to be referenced in genetic testing, making the method to determine lineage complicated and inaccurate.
@Cali God Yes, and my point was that US immigration has brought in many citizens with no ties to either natives or English colonists and that because tribes do not participate in genealogy sampling, that 1% is not reliable.
@@n0m4nic Yeah, the Aztec empire had only been around about a century when the Spanish arrived. It was established, but it wasn't some multi-dynastic monolith.
Remember, knowledge is power. Always read both sides of history. Not a one sided bullshit description through the eyes of one voice but many, even those who are dead.
You can't see that it's propaganda? The eight stages of genocide are classification, symbolization, dehumanization, organization, polarization, preparation, extermination, and denial.
No people have any "right" to a land, your claim only holds up if you can defend it. If you lose your land in battle, it's not yours. It's that simple.
@@Phineas1626 these are indeed great virtues, but they only count if one *practices* them in their personal life. On a wider scale, they're unsustainable. The empathy, compassion and grace you show to the Indians is completely useless. It's easy to condemn Manifest Destiny, something you have no effect on whatsoever. It's a completely different thing to actually help those around you.
@@carantanianfella4035 I don’t have any control over China’s subjugation of Uighur Muslims either. Or the gun violence in Chicago. I condemn it not because it’s easy, but because by any objective standard, it’s wrong. There were people who had great control over “Manifest Destiny.” They were the citizens of this country, who, by their choice of elected leaders, chose their course of action. I understand the argument that people simply act in accord with their own self-interest. But if that is to be the baseline of the ethical standard the United States is going to defend, it makes for a tough sell when we express contempt for those who do the same. Without such contempt, it’s simply a race to the bottom, with the only recourse being to lament that someone had more might. You won’t be surprised to learn that I don’t find compassion “completely useless.” What is sustainable is up to all of us. Nobody would recognize me as the owner of your land if I were to take it from you by force. Our legal system-through your collective neighbors-would impel me to return it. And that’s putting it nicely. Incidentally, the same thing happened in World War II.
I'm American Indian and this video is a lie. We offered Colombus land, food, and shelter and he fed our babies to dogs, cut off women's genitals, and hacked men to death. So it went as your forefathers went on, then you called us savages and made up the lie we were just like you: savages. We made agreements with other tribes for land use and played sports games. Stop colonizating history
I love this. As a descendant of both Indigenous peoples and conquistadors I believe it is imperative that we understand that as men we were born to conquer our fellow man. This is the cruel and uncomfortable truth of human nature.
To add to this, none of our ancestors are free from sin. Though we are not responsible for their actions we are still the product of it. Mexica Tiahui🇲🇽
my norwegian grandmother is out of the Black Hills. It wasn't COLD ENOUGH so she met my French Canadian grandfather and they homesteaded in Canada, in NW Ontario, where it's much, much colder!!!! Tough people.
I recommend the movie “hostiles” to anyone who hasn’t seen it. Definitely not PC, surprised it was made in 2017. A bit intense too. But a very powerful story.
As someone who comes of multi racial blood of Latin, Caucasian, Native, and African. The Officer is right. It is a dark history of the Tribes vs the Union Soldier and no side is innocent by any means. But the Major speaks cold hearted truth. Regardless if you know your history or not. No Native tribe is “Innocent” Every Country, Kingdom, Tribe, Lord, Jarl, King, President, Dictator, Chief etc. All have waged war since the dawn of man. Even in the great Bible it even states war has been existing since the creation of man.
Chelo Mejias: Yeah they were. And look who's ruling the country now, while the indian "scalp takers" are relegated to living in reservations as subjects of american rule? :)
In case anybody didn't know it this scene is historically accurate. It is not the fiction that is typical of Hollywood. Miles had some character flaws but he was willing to meet with Sitting Bull in the field and hash out the issues directly before going into battle. Also, very important, at this point in the Indian Wars the Indians were actually considered to be Americans who were "wards of the state." This is different from pre-Civil War times when the Indians were considered as separate and distinct nations. Anyway, I am heartened to see the truth being told instead of the typical leftist BS that's force-fed to everyone.
That's interesting. I assume of course that that conception of the native tribes as "wards of the state" was little more than a designation created by a bureaucrat in Washington, and not reflective of what the reality was on the frontier.
Yes indeed. But if you know the US Constitution then you surely know there is a good reason why the Grant administration changed US policy towards the Indians in that respect. I'll leave it up to you to discover it in case you don't know it. But as you wrote, there was the reality to contend with. As Miles hints at it, and you're surely aware, the reality of the frontier had always been that the Plains Indians (indeed, practically ALL Indian nations) were constantly warring against each other. They were incessantly raiding each other's camps killing as many men as possible and routinely torturing the wounded or captured for amusement and without mercy. They always raped the women before taking them as slaves, kidnapped the children to work as slaves, and apprehended as many ponies and cattle as possible, and so on. Some tribes practiced cannibalism. And when the Mexican settlers arrived they did the same to them and then to the White settlers that had the misfortune to cross their warpaths. There is a reason why many otherwise good and civilized people often openly said that the only good Indian was a dead Indian. But relax as many Indians didn't even like the violent aspects of their culture which exlains why many were happy to "walk the White man's path" and settle down as farmers and traders. And then there were the peaceful tribes like the Pueblos who were happy to see the US Army finally quash the more violent tribes, namely the Navaho and Apaches. So yes, the reality on the frontier was what the reality was. As Miles said, it is the truth. Fortunately the West was civilized before we were born, right?
@@be2keen lol I know this is three years old but your comment is full of so much bullshit 🤣. Like you really believe that the native Americans needed to be "civilized"? Tell me what does civilized entail? Especially in the perspective of a native American?
@@someonesomeone2166 "Civilized" means to not aggressively and without provocation attack your neighbors. "Civilized" means to not torture people for fun and without mercy. There are standards of behavior that apply to everyone on the planet. For example, you should be polite and respect everyone. You should keep yourself and your properties clean and presentable, etc. I suspect you haven't been taught that. Also, I suspect you've been taught the Howard Zinn+Marxist version of history, which is twisted and Satanic in nature.
My great great grandfather Col. Nelson Miles Holderman changed his name from Nebuchadnezzar (Neb) to Nelson Miles Holderman after Col. Nelson Miles when he was 18 . The legacy of men/women go on forever and those who do great things we should cherish. Col. Nelson Miles Holderman received the Medal of Honor and was considered one of the most decorated soldiers of WW1 after naming himself after Col. Nelson Miles another Medal of Honor Recipient. I can't even express how grateful I am for all the brave women and men that have helped build this country. Col. Nelson Miles Holderman's Medal of Honor Citation was featured in the closing scene of the original Manchurian Candidate read by Frank Sanatra, his actions during the battel in the Argonne Forest are also depicted in the move The Lost Battalion. Our country is not perfect and political divisions are great, but if we just take a moment to remember the beauty of what we've built and not attack one another for what/who we believe/worship/love, we might be as one. Our immigrant family's/women/men sacrificed everything so that you could read this freely. The United States of America
@@MaximusWolfeThe savage is the one who kills most in the most sistematized way. Like killing millions of buffalos to lead millions to starvation, killing for hunting lands is bad, but killing to make business is worse.
I love that both sides are right, and have complete justification for anger. This is such a complicated and morally grey area of our history. props for portraying it well.
Although it’s politically incorrect, Colonel Miles speaks the truth. No Indian land had always been that tribes land. There was warring in conquest for hundreds if not thousands of years before the civilized settlers arrived. I personally am a member of the Chickasaw tribe and it is a known fact that there were very few peaceful tribes and almost no peaceful tribes on the great planes.
I'm not speaking to the right or wrong of how the wasichu were forcing the Teton Lakota onto reservations, at this point in time, Col. Nelson A. Miles had a "chip on his shoulder" because George Custer had been a close personal friend of his and now he was giving Sitting Bull a harsh dose of reality. That he would hound him from the Canadian border to Mexico or see him and his followers dead on a battlefield. But the wasichu started that war there was no denying that as well as violation of the Ft. Laramie treaty of 1868 giving the Teton Sioux the Great Sioux reservation.
I know that the Pawnee at least had some instances of human sacrifice but they were relatively rare/infrequent and I don't recall any reputable accounts of cannibalism amongst North American tribes.
I read the book the Earth is Weeping and the author takes Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee to task because the book treated the tribes that sided with the Americans against their ancestral enemies ie Crow vs Lakota, were traitors worth condemning
This was my conclusions after I took a deep dive into our US history.... America doesn't owe anyone anything but the world owes America everything. 🇺🇸 USA
“You conquered those tribes, lusting for their game and their lands, just as we have now conquered you for no less noble a cause!” Bingo!
Sounds about white
@@quotaaseity5742WHITE ENVY
What was your point?
@@KnownNiche1999 people say white people are evil. if the Chinese sailed the oceans and landed in America they'd conquer the land just the same, for no less noble a cause
@@KnownNiche1999who are you addressing that to?
There's no way they would allow this scene to be made today
Remember Censorship, Exposes and suppresses, Truth. Not lies...
WHO ALLOWS ART? YOu are SO FUll of Shit.
@@donkosco3574 Great rebuttal
Why not? I think it would be more likely that this film would be shown with better results today. From what I understand for all of the old people calling young people snowflakes and thinking they retain some sort of originality they sure do forget how much music, films, and even books could banned just due to maybe a few swear words in them or if it, discovered the creator was gay or something of the sort, or had a differing ideology, something I've seen happen much less in today's environment. But suddenly we are the sensative ones, and than my generation and people close to it get to start their young adult years with a nearly early depression as if we aren't already handling something more controversial than a film, helping to provide for sick or a nearly broke household. I mean you'd think in a day in age where the sky is still orange and bits of ash are falling in the west coast you nostalgia junkies would quit trying to get your fix.
@@rainbowthesaurus6253 Yes, you are oversensitive snowflakes who demand that any piece of fiction get banned or changed because you deem it to be "problematic".
You are wimps that need to grow a pair.
Gotta say. Love this scene.
The Colonel didn't even try to morally condemn the Chief or his people. He even said they were equal in their cause in very clear terms.
The Colonel is not insulting Sitting Bull, he's trying to lay out a very uncomfortable truth that he himself probably hates as well.
Of course you love it. You probably also love it when someone responds to a secretly recorded racist diatribe by, say, the white owner of a professional sports team: “Blacks are racist too!”
The only problem is that you’re missing the obvious: what Miles is saying is completely irrelevant. What the Sioux did to the Pawnee, etc., didn’t justify the United States government’s “Manifest Destiny.” Does might prevail? Always. But that doesn’t mean it’s right. And that’s what’s missing from the dialog.
@@Phineas1626 Bro he Literally didn't say that it makes it right he said quite the opposite you're arguing a point that he already agrees with and that's that both sides aren't really noble
@@rexriply You missed my point completely. Instead of addressing the situation at hand-the US government forcing natives onto reservations-he launches into a tirade about how native tribes were killing each other before the white man arrived, which is completely irrelevant. Why is this important? Because the US has held itself up as a beacon of morality for centuries. You don’t get to make such claims AND unilaterally break treaties.
Forget the bullshit logic of “we’re just doing what you did first” and focus on the current issue-the justification/rationalization of ‘Manifest Destiny.’
Of course, this meeting is likely heavily fictionalized, but I think Sitting Bull would have come up with a better response.
Miles was one of the better officers in the Army, but he was still horrible. After calling the massacre one of the worst slaughters of woman and children in the Army’s history, he backtracked after initially withholding his endorsement for several of the Medals of Honor given to soldiers.
Alas, no worries. Sheridan was far worse. If I ever see that guy’s grave, I’ll probably piss all over it.
@@Phineas1626 War and conquest are a part of human history, colonel miles was just pointing out Sitting Bulls and the other Native Americans hypocrisy you think when American Indians conquered land from each other they put each other onto reservations? No they exterminated the entire tribe, the European Americans showed more mercy towards them then what they ever showed towards each other I’m sorry if it triggers you
@@Phineas1626 Of course it’s justified manifest destiny war and conquest are apart of humanity accept it
As a First Nations native, it annoys me when people, and even my relatives say that we were peaceful people. When in reality, we weren’t even close. Not everyone’s history is peaceful and right, and that was kinda a hard pill for me to swallow about my people, but I’m just glad that I did. I still love my people and my culture of course
Edit: Obviously some debates going on in the replies. Why don't we all just settle down and share a peace pipe.
priest S'fox Like I said, I’m a First Nations native. My ancestors were warriors who waged war with the Cree and other tribes for land and power. Far from the tree loving stereotype that liberal media likes to portray us as. So when people say MY ancestors were peaceful, I find it insulting. And honestly, I think my ancestors would find it pretty insulting as well
priest S'fox there’s no word for jail. Okay so what did they do with the bad people then?
priest S'fox So the scalping and raiding of neighbouring tribes for land, game and resources is just sport between us, right? It’s all love, no war, right?
priest S'fox are you serious? There’s bad people in all cultures.
priest S'fox it’s not even a cultural thing though... they exist in all cultures. Whether it be someone who turns bad or has a mental illness that makes them do bad things. There is literally no debate.
As a Native American myself what I love about this scene is the authenticity of it. So much of our history is BS noble savage nonsense. That crap doesn't help people come to terms with who we are, what happened, how it went, where we are and where we are going. A hundred years before the Whites arrived the Sioux Genocided the Pawnee, Crow and other Native peoples to get the Black Hills it wasn't sacred it was just a resource they needed to survive so they did what they had to do, just like the Whites did. As I tell my children we fought our selves as much as we fought the Whites no one is to blame learn from it be proud and move forward.
My British ancestors were conquered many times. I view their history with pride. Native Americans were at a huge technological disadvantage when europeans arrived. They defended their home with unparalleled courage and resolve. I have great respect for the people who came before me on this land and i hope one day we can all live here and be proud of what we created after the wars were over.
@@vernonlemoignan1392 I have nothing but respect for all other peoples. I don't want the land given back, Whites to leave or reparations. After all most of us are mixed up anyway. Besides no White person alive today committed Genocide on my People just as no one in my tribe committed Genocide on them. We should remember the past but not dwell on it.
Respect to you my friend. When two can agree on truth, it is a good thing
Well put.
Well said. I am Cherokee, so the plains conflicts were very different ones from the costal tribes, but you make a good point. I hold my head high when I think about my ancestors. The people in this scene were probably here 200 years - not colonizers. People don't look at the complex issue cleary.
the way Col Nelson speaks to Sitting Bull is almost exactly the way William Henry Harrison spoke to Tecumseh 65 years earlier. these guys had a knack for getting under the Indian war chiefs skin using their own mannerisms and modes of speaking.
@Nicholas Ramey literally speaking, lol
funny way of calling them flogs
I hate indigenous people and their bullshit so much. They were given mercy and sympathy and deserve none of it.
@Danny Tallmage Sitting Bull was a boomer?
@Danny Tallmage I don't think so.
The person who wrote this script is genius. I can guarantee he/she went through several versions to get that speech as perfect as possible. Then to top it off with, "This is Truth, NOT legend!" It's very hard to argue that point!
He
mic 🎤 drop
@@Moaul-ve9ve dont forget the Bolshevik jews killing millions of white christians before ww2. The holomodor. Also dont forget the fact that the jews were kicked out of over a hundred countries before Hitler got his hands on them.
@@Moaul-ve9veNative American tribes practiced genocide also. What was done to them they did to other Native Americans.
Definitely a He
Human history in a nutshell
Gorilder they fought and scalped custer so they did fight hard. thats why im still here telling u this
Patrick Whitedirt
And that's why we do honor your people unlike other groups
Jay Bannon and now its american land
History is written by the winners
Human history in a nutshell:
All humans wage war and conquer eachothers lands.
But whites are just plain better at it than everyone else. ;)
The Lakota: The Black Hills belong to us, given by the great spirit.
The Crow and Cheyenne: You stole them from us in the 1760s-70s.
I wonder if any movie made now could contain what this scene shows.
Actually there is it's name is bury "my heart at the wounded knee"
To much reeeeee
they could not
I'm surprised they got away with it when this movie came out tbh
Yes of course it could . Jesus Christ
Colonel Miles dropping red pills left and right. 😂
YOU !! Report to the gulags for re-education and hormone "therapy"
"Now, Chief Sitting Bull, I'd like to bring up the latest FBI crime statistics - by race, of course"
Then he starts dropping lead pills
Redpill= historical fact/truth of a subject matter. How amazing is it that in just a few decades, media and education institutes have demolished the foundations of truth and what we believe as fact vs fiction today. They have completely subverted not just the United States, but the entire world's perspective.
Damn right!
As an Umóⁿhoⁿ or in otherwise Omaha Native American myself, this was sometimes hard to watch or hear but even now I cannot deny the truth of Colonel Miles’ words.
I'm sorry my friend for the past.But you are also 100 percent American like the rest of us now. Love ya and thank you. I'd give my life and fight beside you anyday my friend.
@@chaffee87 U sir, R a gentleman and a scholar. The only thing missing from the officors speech is that there was one diffirence. The Europepeans offered a way forward open to the indians. Join us, work, use our system. And many indians did, and became prosperous. I go further. I think no native american would like to go back to the ways of his ancestors.
@@freemason4979debatable
@@freemason4979 a freemason Indian ??
@@freemason4979 , using barbaric logic to kill and invade peoples homes and steal thier land and you swallowed it 🤣🤣 , what if i used that same logic on my next door neighbor?
"Now, Sitting Bull... I would like to present you with FBI crime statistics and the Crime Victimization Survey."
Probably the most interesting movie dialogue between two men I have seen. Both guys sit down talk and declare each of their points very well. Love both the actors in this scene and their acting...
What movie is this?
@@ryananthony2604 Its Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee...
Sitting Bull had no point.
All Strawman arguments, BUT, THE FACT HE DID CALL OUT THE U.S. GOV./MLTRY In Giving Them The GUNS N POWDER TO WIPE OUT The other Tribes In Minosota/ (send In THE LAKOTA SIOUX to do THE DIRTY -WORK/HEAVY LIFTING
Still not a Great Argument, they obliged.
"the proposition that you were a peaceable people before the appearance of the white man is the most fanciful legend of all"... Truth
what is with you useful idiots and thinking genocide and skirmish are on the same level at all? I should kick you like a dog for saying that
"There are two different types of people in the world, Those who want to know, and those who want to believe" Nietzsche
What a shit quote written in bad faith
@@RankaZer0 That quote sounds pretty spot on. People would prefer not to know the hard ugly truth.
Bro... That single speech just made me change my entire outlook on the conquering of native lands that I've believed for 20 years... Because he was true.
It is a shame that it takes a dramatized movie to wake so many up, when people could have just read books growing up and recognized this earlier, so that in the culture we have today this wouldn't even be a question, just an acknowledged fact .
You've swallowed barbaric logic as justification to invade , murder , and steal another mans property, what would happen if i used that same logic on my next door neighbor ?
@@hungsolow7090it’s not so much a barbaric logic as it is the common denominator among all mankind. Hold your ground or be conquered by your foe man.
You don't get to claim property with no defined borders or written code of law. That's called anything goes. When you want "anything goes" and then cry like a beeotch when things don't go your way it just proves you were always weak and have earned the outcome.
@@hungsolow7090you would get arrested, because you aren’t the power of the land, even your own property. The laws of conquest apply to the strongest entities in the given area. If this was 1780, and you and your neighbor lived in the middle of nowhere with no government oversight, sure, you could conquer and take his land, and no one would do anything about it, but we don’t live back then, and we don’t live in a time where you can escape government reach. The strongest entity on your property isn’t you, it’s your government, hence why you can’t conquer shit, and the government can. If you don’t believe me, look up eminent domain.
This is a good scene. No one is right, no one is wrong - they're just equal in the worst way. It's very human. The fact that Sitting Bull is in denial of this is troubling, but so is the fact that Miles is completely okay with what he's doing. They're two sides of the same coin - the only difference is that one of them doesn't know it.
Very well said.
I think as far as Miles being ok with is goes, its more of him trying to justify it since Sitting Bull denied any wrong doing by his people so Miles in his own mind atleast shouldnt be held accountable.
MCZerky and the one admits it
That is well said. Our species have been around for a little more than a hundred thousand years. We became the dominant species over the many different other species of human. We're an animal desperately trying to figure it out and trying not to wipe each other out. I don't give a damn what anyone says. Humans are by far more interesting on Earth than any other species of this planet.
Except they're not "Equal". The white man was more successful at these things than the dirt worshipper were. :)
Truth fucking hurts dont it?
Well guess what Mexicans are becoming majority so are Asians. They taking the poor white Mens land how cruel but is ok. Natives did it to eachother.
@@BlackRose85789 Are you Fucking stupid? The majority of People on welfera are black and whites and no one wants you to be scared budy Just dont play the victim.
What movie is this ?
@@cuahtemoc7642 hahaha, so it's ok for non white to play the victim but when someone who isn't and is accused of doing so it's wrong? Truth fucking hurts when you know that you have no claims, no back up, not even evidence. I think just pure jealousy that whites have done better things then some non white folk. But since you need proof on who's on welfare. I'm sure this video and the numbers will explain it all. ua-cam.com/video/KFG0qyyppdU/v-deo.html
@@BlackRose85789 hahaha look at Europe now fool full of Middle Easterns. USA full of Asians immigrants. Your day welcome buddy don't worry. But please don't act like you don't deserve what you're getting.
This should be required viewing in every U.S. History class throughout the NYC public school system.
Forget just NYC, every school in the country should have this video in their US history classes.
Lmao! NYC?? This should be on display all over America
We are watching it in Advanced Placement United States History in cali
@@nicholasrodriguez4990 Hear, hear. Canadians could stand to learn from this.
As much as I like Tecumseh, he was far more honest than Sitting Bull. He actually was willing to acknowledge he wanted to create a native nation, and make deals with the British. It was actually brought before the courts in London itself, and debated, however, Sir Isaac Brock died, and his successor wasn't really a fan of Tecumseh.
But Sitting Bull was in complete denial.
In your dreams.
Real talk, Miles at this point in his career was a decorated war veteran of both the Civil War and earlier campaigns against the Comanche, Kiowa, Southern Cheyenne, and Arapaho. Sitting Bull had fought in three battles.
The difference in real world combat experience between these two men was pretty vast.
I would say a difference between idealist(sitting bull) who sees the world through rose colored glasses, and a realists(General Miles) who sees the world as it is.
@@brianschwatka3655 A product of his experience.
One's a detached savage, and the other is classy hero.
@Danny Tallmage Yeah, that was the only possible way to ever carve out some land against the weight of a nation united. Lessons that were learned on the large continents elsewhere in the world through thousands of years of conflict and countless civilizations ended. The story of the indians is not a unique one, only recent.
@@MrSinister718 True and factual.
A simpleton savage.
The acting, the screen writing, and the cinematography were A plus!
The myth of the noble savage needs to die.
Jerry Atric we weren't noble, but we sure as hell weren't savage
Jerry Atric We are no savages
@Voornaam Achternaam what makes them savage tho I'm confused...because we didn't use forks...or how our women gave birth with out screaming or crying.or is it the fact we dont believe and bible that was written by man and changed multiple times about this "god" or "jesus" fellow..I dont see nothing savage about us...we used all and every part of an animal that we killed
@John R right they are privileged...just the other day...that dude who built a 200 pound bomb for DC gets 20 years if convicted...notice I said if...there words after he admitted.....20 fucking years but I know a black kid I grew up with got 25 years for selling just weed....weed only and only has 1 dwi from when he was 18...10 years ago...smh...all these public shooting...they plead insanity but one person of color shoots but dont kill the person gets life for attempted murder...smh our system is busted like a hill billy's teeth lol
@@chiefsittingbull5276 dont call your self Chief Sitting Bull that's disrespectful.
Let’s be real, everyone conquered everyone. Europeans conquered other Europeans, Indians conquered Indians, Asians conquered Asians, Africans conquered Africans. It’s just human nature. People act like the Norman conquest didn’t happen or Genghis Khan wasn’t a conquering warlord. 🤷🏻♀️
People that hate America do not understand that unending war and slavery was the norm UNTIL America. It birthed this dangerous and infectious virus called freedom. You are not a subject. You are a citizen. Even those we conquer become citizens. Look at our relationship with our former enemies. Japan and Germany. America is Righteous. And it is all the world has got.
This has nothing to do with Genghis Khan
@Troy Ralph Alldis true but that does not justify a genocide
@Troy Ralph Alldis I'm talking about north american tribes
@@D0nnyy the Blackfoot and Crow are tribes of North America.
They hated him because he told the truth.
"Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee"
Entierra Mi Corazon en Wounded Knee
Wounded knee
Doesn't make the top two of madsacares
As a Spaniard, I hate it when people try to make us feel bad about South America too. As if the Aztecs and the rest were some earth-loving peaceful hippies before our ancestors arrived...
because it is easier for them to point fingers rather than thinking.
As a germanic descendant, Rome conquered us both to some degree. None of us are crying about it now.
I'd just like to say, if that's a historically accurate conversation then Chief Sitting Bull deserves massive respect for his English skills.
There may have been translators present. Doesn't detract from the truth of the words in it.
THAT'S what you took from this scene!? His fucking made up English skills?
Holy shit this new generation is daft and fucked.
The actual Sitting Bull spoke English, like most Sioux in the mid-1800s. Also, fun fact, his birth name was "Jumping Badger".
@@rinzler9171 So this was a real conversation?
@@FortniteBlaster2The conversation did happen to my knowledge but whether what was spoken in the movie actual happened in reality, I highly doubt it.
“Chief Sitting Bull, the proposition that you were a peaceable people before the appearance of the white man is the most fanciful legend of all! You were killing each other for hundreds of moons before the first white stepped foot on this continent. You conquered those tribes, lusting for their game and their lands. Just as we have now conquered you for no less noble a cause.” should be carved in stone as eternal truth
Darrell Johnson “IT IS THE TRUTH! NOT LEGEND!”
@solidmoni Like what happened when the Sioux conquered the Black Hills and like how they themselves were driven out of Minnesota?
@Leftist Hunter They did when they were handed rifles.
cause the white induce them don't come with stories
But it’s not. Driving people out of land isn’t war in a sense where it makes sense to the typical us soldier. That’s just migration, as a soldier of the us, they were accustomed to total war. Which isn’t a method of war for the native people. Homicide was hardly a motive when going to war, you must understand. And the Chief is right, the whites armed the Indians and probably encouraged them (they did a lot of instigation, due to their western expansion) therefore it it very clear it is wrong to assume Indians murdered each other in the droves of his assumption. This isn’t truth, it is human nature. But the truth of the plot is that white people, particularly americans. Are responsible for the many conflicts in the plains. And even in the Middle East today. But history tends to fly over dence white americans.
Conquered, not stolen.
I wouldn’t call killing innocent women and children as something to be proud of but go for it
Top 10 Most Brutal Beatdowns
wehraboo spotted
this scene is truth. wrong or right doesn't matter when it comes to these things. if you're hungry you're going to find a way to eat, and if anyone gets in your way you'll remove them. this is all of human history . there are no Good guys when there isnt enough for everyone.
very true.
That reasoning -among others- is why humans are going extinct.
lol your future for humanity will cause our extinction anyway, and the loss of individuality
Preach
i'm actually 25% native myself
all human races have blood on their hands. My Celtic ancestors have done horrible things to each other and other peoples just as the native Americans have done to each other. There is no human race with clean hands
I have ancestors of every people group who are considered native to Britain and my Saxon ancestors killed and enslaved my Celtic ancestors, then later my Norman ancestors came and conquered and butchered my Saxon Ancestors, I also have some Norwegian and Danish ancestors who came and conquered the Danelaw in England and the Orkneys in Scotland, and groups of my Scottish and English ancestors drove them out. It's the cycle of history, no people group hasn't been a victim and no people group hasn't been an oppressor. We have done a disservice with oversimplified history.
@@johncantrell9993 It's almost like people should stop being resentful about history and just treat each other with the same kindness/respect they would want to be given by others.
But modern people with pretty cushy lives have appointed themselves judges of all humanity past and present...
Given the proud human mutt that I am. I have blood from both sides two major genocides. The holocaust, I include Polish Jew and German from my mother's side. And the trail of tears as I have English and Cherokee ancestry from my fathers side. So, yea..
Celtics kept the severed heads of their enemies as yard decorations, then again everyone was constantly trying to murder them for their land so...
No one is saying there is, but people have the right to their ancestral lands. We do in Europe and Indigenous people do here. It’s about the land and the justification to take more from those who have less than you, so you can have more. How perverse.
A whole slew of college professors: *triggered*
🤣🤣🤣
This is a nuanced and intelligently written scene. Two men from different worlds, but who're similar to each other in their pride, their determination to argue their position, and the role they play in the great game of war and civilization.
Pretty much what Miles is telling Bull is that the Americans are doing exactly what they’ve been doing to their own people for years and years, but better.
But that logic doesn't justify settler clonialsim people fighting each other on there own continent is completely different from settler clonialsim.
@@TheAaronChand So you’re objecting on the grounds of relevance?
Sustained.
@@TheAaronChand Of course it does war conquest are a part of human history the strong conquer the weak
Did they not settle on the land they conquered?
@@creamychoclatelobsterwarri979
Yes. As much as native activists would beg to differ that is colonialism. The likes of modern warrior sees no equivalence. It’s bad when the white man conquers native land and settles there but it’s fine when a native does the same thing to another tribe. The native tribes conquered land and fought until they became the conquered themselves. And the cycle repeats itself
Truer words never spoken.
these 2 and half minutws are 1000x times better that last season of GoT
Holy shit, what a great scene!
Two great cultures meeting, each entirely too married to their own notions to ever consider the others.
*Reminds me of this comment section.*
@Huwhite Death no one wins in the end
I am a full-blooded American white man. I do feel bad for what was done to the Native Americans; it was a terrible thing. However, the truth here is that they were not innocent spirits, they were human just like everyone else: capable of great cruelty and malice.
The fact that people want to pretend that humanity is something it isn’t is worrying
You kinda don’t feel like that. And We are still feeling the affects of white imperialism not indigenous warfare.
@@californiacombativesclub202
Ah, right, the effects of white imperialism, such as civilization, the industrial revolution, modern technology, everything that makes your miserable life comfortable.
Stop with white guilt asshole..
You didn't listen enough..
Dunbass
What movie is this from?
@@californiacombativesclub202
You don't feel the effects of indigenous warfare because the White man put an end to it.
This says it all. Anyone that does not recognize what Col Miles is saying, is just plain foolish.
limited facts create logical fallacies and moral false equivalencies.
Nothing either of them said is wrong. Doesn’t make it right but facts don’t have morals and they don’t care about your feelings.
@@dutchvanderlinde5004 It is factually wrong that the Souix committed genocide against their own race. They may have committed several massacres but never exterminated an entire tribe. Native Americans always would take survivors and naturalize them, actually that's where the USA got the concept of naturalization of immigrants. The facts are that everyone is going to die. The guns were the weapon that allowed for the massacres. There were no mass slaughtering of people before the whites came to the continent. Expansionism was taught by the Empires of Europe. Not the nations of America.
@@edwidgewhatsosons1727 the natives taught the english how to incorporate the surviving conquered? Sure it wasn't the dozens of past empires to exist in europe which did the same for millenia?
@@buzinaocara Empires and Aristocrats had a memory of survival skills and hunting that the peasants and serfs did not. The colonies were not Aristocrats besides a few notable figures like Roger Williams and a few Governors who still knew what natural laws and common law originated from in the Nordic countries. Yes, there was a brotherhood in the Aristocracy and the Tribal peoples. This is why they made treaties and married into each other's families. The Cherokee notably would check the hands and feet to ensure that they were marrying blue bloods. It is very common knowledge that American Indians like Joseph Brant were in the Masons and the indigenous people held a form of government and shared many values in common with the secret societies. The difference here is that in the Native American societies every person was a trained fighter, survivor, and could start a new band or clan without much help at all from anyone else. They had skills to fight and do medicine. They could make bread out of wheatgrass. In the South Americas they invented Rubber and back in Europe the peasants many times revolted at the sight of seeing a returning Conquestador wearing clothing that repelled the rain. What idiots those Europeans were!
It always amazes me that Indian tribes in North America were slaughtering each other for thousands of years before the first European set foot on the continent, but yet it was only bad when the "White man" conquered areas there.
Antiochus IV Epiphanese the Europeans didn't either. It was disease that killed most of the Native Americans. A thing that neither was really capable of stopping.
Antiochus IV Epiphanese Really? That analogy can be used for when the Natives we're pushed on to Reservations, but before that? The minute Europeans stepped foot in the Americas and traded with the Natives, the Natives started dying. This was hundreds of years before Europeans and Whites even knew what bacteria was so they could start handing out smallpox blankets. Native Americans and Europeans treated each other the exact same way they treated other groups when they first met. Everyone was racist back then and everything was racially motivated. Native Americans didn't slaughter European settlements because the Europeans were genocidal racists. They did it because they hated white people who were competing for land and resources.
matthew gallaway Hitler never blamed Jews for his defeat. Where are you getting this from? And the Vietnam war was rigged from the start by capitalist fucks.thebus entered because of the gulf of Tonkin incident which was revealed after the war to never have happened. The us was made to follow war laws that put them at a huge disadvantage against the Viennese soldiers who didn’t have the same laws to follow. The laws were debatably written to keep the war going longer than it should have. War generates unprecedented amounts of wealth.
So you should read more. Just saying :)
Antiochus IV Epiphanese where is your information coming from. You seem to be claiming a lot of things that nobody alive today could possibly know. Www.imright.com?
You are so full of shit I’m gonna call you Johnny
Aquila who land? Indian is a very broad term. So anyone with brown skin and a Feather? Brah, that’s fuckin racist
Incredibly honest scene
Both sides have just causes and brought to an inevitable confrontation. The film portrays the complexities of history very well
What's the name of this movie? It was a freaking wonderful scene
@@MrsStormtrooper it's called Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, it's a 2008 HBO TV movie, really recommend it
No, the barbarians have no just cause. They are liars, murderers, rapists, and cannibals. They deserve ZERO sympathy. No one violently genocided them but each other and some sneezes. Maybe spend less time murdering, raping, and smoking peyote, and actual develop some actual medicines. If they claims to live off the land so well, they'd be strong enough to handle illness. LIARS!
They got the guns mostly from the French to start with. Your call, Sitting Bull.
Did u see the French giving them?
@@Sul8866 The French were the first Europeans there and named much of the area. Fond du Lac, Lacrosse, Faribault, Mills Lacs, Saint Clair, even words like "Prairie" are French. Its official motto is L'Étoile du Nord, French for "The Star of the North".
Before European settlement of North America, a subculture of Sioux called the Dakota people lived in Minnesota. The first Europeans in the area were French voyageur fur traders who arrived in the 17th century and began using the Grand Portage to access trapping and trading areas further inland. Around the same time, Anishinaabe (also known as Ojibwe) migrated westward to Minnesota, causing tensions with the Dakota people. Explorers such as Daniel Greysolon, Sieur du Lhut, Father Louis Hennepin, Jonathan Carver, Henry Schoolcraft, and Joseph Nicollet mapped the state.
So yes, it's well established that the French traded steel weapons and firearms to the natives in exchange for a variety of goods and services.
@@mzmadmike French didn't have lever actions at that time in history. Those are American weapons.
@@waltersobchak4565 before hand it was french
Also, keep these things in mind. Horses were brought over by the Spanish, and the guns the "natives" are holding were also brought over by Europeans. They were not peaceful people who just lived off the land. They also were trying to conquer, but Europeans were more advanced, organized and successful
.
@Cali God So are you just disregarding the thousands upon thousands of non Aztec Natives that fought for the Spanish to bring down the Aztecs?
@Cali God That's really a piss poor understanding of what transpired to collapse the Aztec Empire. The Spanish didn't really have much to do with it beyond Cortes was a Spaniard. He was not intended to have been the leader of the third expedition into the Yucatan and was to be arrested had he not engaged legal maneuvers to declare himself a magistrate. The fact that these lesser tribes allied with him was not coincidental either. His expedition was to make alliances with these tribes, all of whom had legitimate grievances with the Aztecs that made them vassal states. They didn't assist, they were allies of Cortes that planned with overthrowing the empire that was using them for human sacrificial offerings. This was in fact jeopardized by the Spanish when they sent another fleet to recuse and recall him, forcing him to take Moctezuma hostage. After Moctezuma's death and Cortes's initial retreat, the Aztecs could not sure up the loyalties of their tributaries and many of them would support Spanish conquest.
@Cali God Was it though? While there are more that share native lineage, few share any actual heritage. The Aztec revival movement provided an ethnic identity that is very vaguely of Aztec tradition. Furthermore, comparing that to the US is impractical as the US gene pool is far more diverse from years of very open immigration policies. With the number of first, second, and third generation citizens, its rarer to find native ancestry. This is even further complicated as many tribes refuse to be referenced in genetic testing, making the method to determine lineage complicated and inaccurate.
@Cali God Yes, and my point was that US immigration has brought in many citizens with no ties to either natives or English colonists and that because tribes do not participate in genealogy sampling, that 1% is not reliable.
@@n0m4nic Yeah, the Aztec empire had only been around about a century when the Spanish arrived. It was established, but it wasn't some multi-dynastic monolith.
Goddamn, this might have just changed my opinion on history...
Remember, knowledge is power. Always read both sides of history. Not a one sided bullshit description through the eyes of one voice but many, even those who are dead.
Then I was confused and thought that was being directed at me. So I apologize for that.@Snaggle Toothed
You can't see that it's propaganda?
The eight stages of genocide are classification, symbolization, dehumanization, organization, polarization, preparation, extermination, and denial.
That's how propaganda works. Its design to inhabit the gullible
Feels good huh??
'Who gave us the weapons?"
Bruh you'd kill each other with bows and stone tomahawks anyway. It don't matter
A surprising response. They lost the argument at that point
No people have any "right" to a land, your claim only holds up if you can defend it. If you lose your land in battle, it's not yours. It's that simple.
Indeed. And the only things missing from your philosophy are the things that matter most.
@@Phineas1626 which are?
@@carantanianfella4035 Which are all those things that answer the question: what kind of person are you?
Empathy. Compassion. Grace.
@@Phineas1626 these are indeed great virtues, but they only count if one *practices* them in their personal life. On a wider scale, they're unsustainable. The empathy, compassion and grace you show to the Indians is completely useless. It's easy to condemn Manifest Destiny, something you have no effect on whatsoever. It's a completely different thing to actually help those around you.
@@carantanianfella4035 I don’t have any control over China’s subjugation of Uighur Muslims either. Or the gun violence in Chicago. I condemn it not because it’s easy, but because by any objective standard, it’s wrong.
There were people who had great control over “Manifest Destiny.” They were the citizens of this country, who, by their choice of elected leaders, chose their course of action. I understand the argument that people simply act in accord with their own self-interest. But if that is to be the baseline of the ethical standard the United States is going to defend, it makes for a tough sell when we express contempt for those who do the same. Without such contempt, it’s simply a race to the bottom, with the only recourse being to lament that someone had more might.
You won’t be surprised to learn that I don’t find compassion “completely useless.” What is sustainable is up to all of us.
Nobody would recognize me as the owner of your land if I were to take it from you by force. Our legal system-through your collective neighbors-would impel me to return it. And that’s putting it nicely. Incidentally, the same thing happened in World War II.
Be careful, a lot of people can't take facts.
Whoa! That was truly tense and intense!!! Both Gen. Miles & Sitting Bull have very accurate views of each other.
Stuff like this isn't in movies anymore because it contains *facts*
I'm American Indian and this video is a lie. We offered Colombus land, food, and shelter and he fed our babies to dogs, cut off women's genitals, and hacked men to death.
So it went as your forefathers went on, then you called us savages and made up the lie we were just like you: savages.
We made agreements with other tribes for land use and played sports games. Stop colonizating history
@@TannerWilliam07 Stop lying loser. You weren't peaceful. You genocided other tribes. And Columbus was a great man.
I'd be the dumbass to fire when it got tense😂
So your the one that went back in time to make the shot heard round the world at Lexington. It wasn't the British, nor the Minutemen. It was you?😂
@@Airland_combat He did call himself a dumbass.
@@Limacy 😂
I love that actor! He played in Free Willy. Lol finally an accurate telling of history. Stop hating each other, people.
Randolph!
Amen. And stop tuning it or turning on to the ones trying to make you hate by push notification or a fancy hairdo on teevee reading a teleprompter.
I love this. As a descendant of both Indigenous peoples and conquistadors I believe it is imperative that we understand that as men we were born to conquer our fellow man. This is the cruel and uncomfortable truth of human nature.
To add to this, none of our ancestors are free from sin. Though we are not responsible for their actions we are still the product of it. Mexica Tiahui🇲🇽
Truth be told, Mexicans invaded and fought Natives long before whites did. Funny how that bit never gets mentioned.
"this is the Truth not Legend"
Truth is a Legend would reply Nietzsche
@@Hulgore" nietzche is dead"
God
If there is ever a staple to human nature it is the Right of Conquest (the Strong conquer the Weak)
I love this comment section. Glorious.
The Colonel was spitting out straight facts.
Europeans have had wars for millennia, Muslim refugees are just another migratory group and it’s natural. Allow Europe to be Arab and Islamic.
@JohnDoe-sw1rs Throughout history the best win... Islam is like the Indians... trash.
my norwegian grandmother is out of the Black Hills. It wasn't COLD ENOUGH so she met my French Canadian grandfather and they homesteaded in Canada, in NW Ontario, where it's much, much colder!!!! Tough people.
well of course your from french stock, the toughest there is they literally eat pain for breafast.
I recommend the movie “hostiles” to anyone who hasn’t seen it. Definitely not PC, surprised it was made in 2017. A bit intense too. But a very powerful story.
I saw it. Nice movie but I prefer The revenant. It's about Indians too.
I'm watching it now. That's what made me look up this scene. I was hoping it was in hostiles.
It is a great movie. It is not P.C. and that makes it a great movie. Well done.
I keep watching this because it's so true and raw!!!
Except he didn't say this
As someone who comes of multi racial blood of Latin, Caucasian, Native, and African. The Officer is right. It is a dark history of the Tribes vs the Union Soldier and no side is innocent by any means. But the Major speaks cold hearted truth. Regardless if you know your history or not. No Native tribe is “Innocent” Every Country, Kingdom, Tribe, Lord, Jarl, King, President, Dictator, Chief etc. All have waged war since the dawn of man. Even in the great Bible it even states war has been existing since the creation of man.
I live in the Black Hills and they are still demanding "their land" back to this day.
This is badass.
Don't hate the players, hate the game.
History is written in blood. Penned by the champions. Accepted by the losers.
The harsh truth that few of us like to hear is that inhumanity is actually a *very* human thing.
Even with all blood on his hands, Nelson still has the High Ground of Honesty.
copium
@@25ilu copium
Sitting bull's hands are drenched in blood too.
Back when white people had balls and not cower at the very mention of "racist!".
Hundreds of white were killed and scalped for having "balls"
what are you trying to say?
Chelo Mejias: Yeah they were. And look who's ruling the country now, while the indian "scalp takers" are relegated to living in reservations as subjects of american rule? :)
We killed well more of you than you did us Chelo and I don't even know what race you actually are. It doesn't really matter though, does it?
Chelo Mejias better to die with pride than to live as a cowering coward.
_Behold, my friends, the spring is come; the earth has gladly received the embraces of the sun, and we shall soon see the results of their love!_
In case anybody didn't know it this scene is historically accurate. It is not the fiction that is typical of Hollywood. Miles had some character flaws but he was willing to meet with Sitting Bull in the field and hash out the issues directly before going into battle. Also, very important, at this point in the Indian Wars the Indians were actually considered to be Americans who were "wards of the state." This is different from pre-Civil War times when the Indians were considered as separate and distinct nations. Anyway, I am heartened to see the truth being told instead of the typical leftist BS that's force-fed to everyone.
Warner Bauer So true!
That's interesting. I assume of course that that conception of the native tribes as "wards of the state" was little more than a designation created by a bureaucrat in Washington, and not reflective of what the reality was on the frontier.
Yes indeed. But if you know the US Constitution then you surely know there is a good reason why the Grant administration changed US policy towards the Indians in that respect. I'll leave it up to you to discover it in case you don't know it. But as you wrote, there was the reality to contend with. As Miles hints at it, and you're surely aware, the reality of the frontier had always been that the Plains Indians (indeed, practically ALL Indian nations) were constantly warring against each other. They were incessantly raiding each other's camps killing as many men as possible and routinely torturing the wounded or captured for amusement and without mercy. They always raped the women before taking them as slaves, kidnapped the children to work as slaves, and apprehended as many ponies and cattle as possible, and so on. Some tribes practiced cannibalism. And when the Mexican settlers arrived they did the same to them and then to the White settlers that had the misfortune to cross their warpaths. There is a reason why many otherwise good and civilized people often openly said that the only good Indian was a dead Indian. But relax as many Indians didn't even like the violent aspects of their culture which exlains why many were happy to "walk the White man's path" and settle down as farmers and traders. And then there were the peaceful tribes like the Pueblos who were happy to see the US Army finally quash the more violent tribes, namely the Navaho and Apaches. So yes, the reality on the frontier was what the reality was. As Miles said, it is the truth. Fortunately the West was civilized before we were born, right?
@@be2keen lol I know this is three years old but your comment is full of so much bullshit 🤣. Like you really believe that the native Americans needed to be "civilized"? Tell me what does civilized entail? Especially in the perspective of a native American?
@@someonesomeone2166 "Civilized" means to not aggressively and without provocation attack your neighbors. "Civilized" means to not torture people for fun and without mercy. There are standards of behavior that apply to everyone on the planet. For example, you should be polite and respect everyone. You should keep yourself and your properties clean and presentable, etc. I suspect you haven't been taught that. Also, I suspect you've been taught the Howard Zinn+Marxist version of history, which is twisted and Satanic in nature.
Great acting! I really enjoyed watching every person
I used to sit, now I stand
100% accurate. Both sides were savages. Today people love to lie about the past
My great great grandfather Col. Nelson Miles Holderman changed his name from Nebuchadnezzar (Neb) to Nelson Miles Holderman after Col. Nelson Miles when he was 18 . The legacy of men/women go on forever and those who do great things we should cherish. Col. Nelson Miles Holderman received the Medal of Honor and was considered one of the most decorated soldiers of WW1 after naming himself after Col. Nelson Miles another Medal of Honor Recipient. I can't even express how grateful I am for all the brave women and men that have helped build this country. Col. Nelson Miles Holderman's Medal of Honor Citation was featured in the closing scene of the original Manchurian Candidate read by Frank Sanatra, his actions during the battel in the Argonne Forest are also depicted in the move The Lost Battalion. Our country is not perfect and political divisions are great, but if we just take a moment to remember the beauty of what we've built and not attack one another for what/who we believe/worship/love, we might be as one. Our immigrant family's/women/men sacrificed everything so that you could read this freely. The United States of America
"their people kill buffalo for fun, and they call us savages" - Sitting bull
His people killed buffalo for fun constantly. They made a whole event out of killing entire herds.
The Sioux killed human beings without remorse for their lands. Yes, that is savagery.
@@MaximusWolfeThe savage is the one who kills most in the most sistematized way. Like killing millions of buffalos to lead millions to starvation, killing for hunting lands is bad, but killing to make business is worse.
Nelson A. Miles handed Sitting Bull his ass on a platter.
Oh ya just love to see it. Inject this video into my veins.
This is true and i am indigenious. We weren’t exactly a peaceful people. No nation on earth has a peaceful history.
still u were the last vestige of being in touch with the earth so its sad to see that become just a memory
You’re not fooling anyone, white boy
@@user-lm2pl5kg9kThe idea that natives were "in tune with nature" is a myth created by Hollywood.
This is my favorite scene from this movie!
I love that both sides are right, and have complete justification for anger. This is such a complicated and morally grey area of our history. props for portraying it well.
Although it’s politically incorrect, Colonel Miles speaks the truth. No Indian land had always been that tribes land. There was warring in conquest for hundreds if not thousands of years before the civilized settlers arrived. I personally am a member of the Chickasaw tribe and it is a known fact that there were very few peaceful tribes and almost no peaceful tribes on the great planes.
It depends. Some native tribes were predatorial, others not so much. Some were settlement based and others were nomadic.
He called my tribe out 😅😅 (ojibwe) he said chippewa though
Why can't we all just sit down together and get along?
Because life happens, and living gets in the way.
Hated is he who speaks the truth
I'm not speaking to the right or wrong of how the wasichu were forcing the Teton Lakota onto reservations, at this point in time, Col. Nelson A. Miles had
a "chip on his shoulder" because George Custer had been a close personal friend of his and now he was giving Sitting Bull a harsh dose of reality. That he would hound him from the Canadian border to Mexico or see him and his followers dead on a battlefield. But the wasichu started that war there was no
denying that as well as violation of the Ft. Laramie treaty of 1868 giving the Teton Sioux the Great Sioux reservation.
This is my favorite scene from the movie.
Some of these tribes roasted women and children alive and occasionally ate the flesh of their enemies.
I know that the Pawnee at least had some instances of human sacrifice but they were relatively rare/infrequent and I don't recall any reputable accounts of cannibalism amongst North American tribes.
Where did you learn this from?
Based
This video was comments unavailable for quite some time. I'm glad to see comments allowed. Surprising.
The book is a historical nonfiction. Anyone getting mad at this needs to read more history.
I read the book the Earth is Weeping and the author takes Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee to task because the book treated the tribes that sided with the Americans against their ancestral enemies ie Crow vs Lakota, were traitors worth condemning
The old days are gone.. the wars are over.. its time to just heal. Thats my dream of peace anyways
Chief Sitting Bull is 1 of my distant ancestors.
Not gonna lie that's a bad ass way to meet up for a battle to discuss last minute terms
wow. One of the realest scenes in movie history
Can anyone tell me the name of this film?
Thanks.
Awesome scene...the truth has power.
ALWAYS LOVED THIS CLIP, a lot. ❤
This was my conclusions after I took a deep dive into our US history.... America doesn't owe anyone anything but the world owes America everything.
🇺🇸 USA
He do be spittin facts doe
Who’s here after the protesting of mt Rushmore