Now that the Helmholtz Resonators are installed it's time to see if they work. Paul and Bob measure the room and try and tune out that nasty bass bump.
Paul-It's great that you're showing us the frustration of what "should work" in acoustics doesn't always. This mirrors my own experience in trying to eliminate a bass hump from my listening room- tried several solutions that should have fixed the issue, but didn't. I'll be looking forward to seeing how you eventually work it out.
I'll offer some tips: Pink noise is not a suitable source for testing bass traps, nor is a third-octave analyzer. It's also critical that the microphone not move even 1/2 inch as you test. The preferred software for testing rooms in a home is the freeware Room EQ Wizard. REW not only displays the LF response at high resolution, it also shows modal ringing which is just as damaging. I'll also mention that 30 Hz is less important than higher bass frequencies where many nulls 30 dB deep are common.
A very interesting insight into room acoustics + I hope you work things out, it will be very interesting to find out if all your work proves fruitful in improving the room acoustics,However remembering your superb video blogs in creating the room to start with when the Helmholtz resonators when completed the clapping experiment you did proved to me they did improve the sonic's in the room, looking forward to the 2nd part!!!!
Thank you very much for educating me. I am a neophyte, when it comes to being an audiophile. I learned a lot, by watching this series of videos. I am definitely storing way a lot of this information for future reference. Thanks again for taking the time to make and upload these great videos.
I love people who take sound so seriously. Im not this hardcore, due to lack of funds, but I do what I can. Unfortunately im surrounded by people who just want loud stuff like my roomate. She's drooling for a soundbar. A FREAKIN SOUNDBAR man!!! Dear god please help me help the partially deaf around me who "think" they know quality. Help me please...
I feel your pain. I would give my left nut for that system. I have spoiled ears and some of my friends play music on systems that literally hurt my ears. We only saving grace is that I own a very good pair of headphones.
Scott Hill Headphones? No audiophile I know would spend money on a pair of headphones. I wouldn't even take them for free. My "pain" is starting to come back.
FrakU2 audiophiles can range from all types of people. It is just a categorization of those who are enthusiastic or passionate about high-fidelity audio/music. People can have the shittiest pair of headphones or speakers, but if their mindset is geared towards wanting the best reproduction of music, then even they can be considered an audiophile.
Very interesting video series and enjoyable too! I had several issues in my room and had done several trials and treatment. And my final solution was using "active" correction which is McIntosh MEN220.... To correct the final part of the link after the best I could achieve for passive correction. The key to a good active solution is not just the reliability for the machine, but the way you calibrate the room. You may wish to consider that :-)
Slot resonators work better on low-mid as opposed to low, as far as I understand. It seems you all may need to use bass traps. Since you wanna keep the room looking clean, how about just building them into the corners. Also, I wonder if your room has a false ceiling (drop ceiling). If so, you can implement acoustic hangers above the ceiling and behind the walls. Those should serve well.
Hmm, spending a lot of time and money on a room resulting in a 40dB variation between 50Hz and 200Hz, even with 1/3 octave smoothing and still getting comments on your expertise is a great accomplishment in itself.
You can't EQ a room mode. You could take out a frequency completely, but then you would miss that frequency. An effective bass trap will get rid of the room mode by getting rid of the reflection of the sound wave only.
@@jotunman627 Phase shift is only a big deal in pro audio. That's why studio monitors (real ones) integrate phase coherent drivers in their systems. Audiophile systems like the IRS V's are COMPLETELY out of phase from top to bottom. As long as it sounds good that's all that matters. Pro systems aren't necessarily better sounding but they must be as 'correct' as possible or the fault continues all the way down the line to you the audiophile.
I would suggest a different method that is much more efficient than anything else for that matter. It's a corner airtight sealed triangle bass trap that has a sheet of owing fiber glass and a air gap in the back corner and the front facing plywood. The plywood must resonate with your target peak low freq. the efficiency of this design, from pressure to velocity is among if not the highest. Hope this helps. R.
Great video! A couple of thoughts. Those Rat Shack SPL meters are hideously inaccurate at low frequencies. As someone else pointed out, bass peaks and dips in a room will often swing wildly over just a couple of inches, so I find that sitting with the meter held casually in your hand leads to inconsistent readings. I have never been a fan of listening chairs with a tall back that includes a headrest behind your ears. The short reflection from the headrest to your ears causes a loss of focus.
You actually lowering the resonance frequency of the resonators when blocking them at 7:14. The acoustic mass gets bigger when the holes gets smaller...
Seems you are right.. you can also tune any vented port that way.. Put a role of cardboard into it, the diameter gets smaller, the resonance frequency gets deeper.. Because mostly you cannot make the port longer.. but you can make the diameter smaller..
hey paul, i think you got too much damping material in the resonators, it sucks too much and too fast energy out of the in coming air, helmholz rules say only 1/3 off chamber hight should filled with damping material, please let me know if you got any difference
If that spectrum analyzer is correct your biggest issue is not a small bass bump, its that you really don't have any bass whatsoever. I really hope you got that sorted!
Hi i am following your videos long back, i also respect your knowledge of audio electronics.And i am sure may be you are missing one link in this home audio reproduction chain. I strongly request you to watch one video on youtube of Mr. Bob Robbins at RMAF.
why don't you cover your whole back and side walls with bass absorbing materials instead of using acoustic suppressiong tubes? It would look a lot cleaner than all those standing tubes
Your Helmholtz method does not make sense in trying to tame massive low-freq peaks. In such a room, bass traps on the wall and corners of room would have been a far more direct solution to the issue. Without any room treatment all, fully open the door, and your low freq issue goes away. Im very sure. Thats why you need REAL bass traps.
Obsesses over low frequency resonances, nobody will notice and spends hours and lots of money measuring instead of just kicking back and enjoying real music and not that jazz obscure acousticrap and easylistening and granddad music. Bring on the Nine inch nails, squarepusher, BT, Kendrick Lamar, Armin van buuren, Tiesto, Hardwell, AC/DC, skrillex, Metallica, Rammstien, Leaves eyes, cult of luna, Godhead, Zeromancer, marina and the diamonds, Halsey, sleigh bells, Beach house, wildhoney etc...
sorry you are a idiot , good room acoustics makes more difference than good speakers and you seem to thing what sort of grandpa music you listen to makes a difference , the music doesn't matter if you have a good system for listening to jazz or rock it will also sound good for dubstep ect too , a good system will sound good no matter the music it players weather.. as you say grandpa jazz or some heavy hitting drum and bass
wow what an amazing video. really love to see such passion for music!!
Paul-It's great that you're showing us the frustration of what "should work" in acoustics doesn't always. This mirrors my own experience in trying to eliminate a bass hump from my listening room- tried several solutions that should have fixed the issue, but didn't. I'll be looking forward to seeing how you eventually work it out.
I always enjoy listening to your videos !! you seems like a down to earth kind of person... 2 thumbs up !!!
I'll offer some tips: Pink noise is not a suitable source for testing bass traps, nor is a third-octave analyzer. It's also critical that the microphone not move even 1/2 inch as you test. The preferred software for testing rooms in a home is the freeware Room EQ Wizard. REW not only displays the LF response at high resolution, it also shows modal ringing which is just as damaging. I'll also mention that 30 Hz is less important than higher bass frequencies where many nulls 30 dB deep are common.
Absolutely brilliant comment!
You are the Best Ethan
A very interesting insight into room acoustics + I hope you work things out, it will be very interesting to find out if all your work proves fruitful in improving the room acoustics,However remembering your superb video blogs in creating the room to start with when the Helmholtz resonators when completed the clapping experiment you did proved to me they did improve the sonic's in the room, looking forward to the 2nd part!!!!
Did you manage to find a solution? Awesome room by thay, great work!
Thank you very much for educating me. I am a neophyte, when it comes to being an audiophile. I learned a lot, by watching this series of videos. I am definitely storing way a lot of this information for future reference. Thanks again for taking the time to make and upload these great videos.
I love people who take sound so seriously. Im not this hardcore, due to lack of funds, but I do what I can. Unfortunately im surrounded by people who just want loud stuff like my roomate. She's drooling for a soundbar. A FREAKIN SOUNDBAR man!!! Dear god please help me help the partially deaf around me who "think" they know quality. Help me please...
I feel your pain. I would give my left nut for that system. I have spoiled ears and some of my friends play music on systems that literally hurt my ears. We only saving grace is that I own a very good pair of headphones.
Scott Hill Headphones?
No audiophile I know would spend money on a pair of headphones. I wouldn't even take them for free. My "pain" is starting to come back.
FrakU2 Sorry about that. You have to do with what you have.
Scott Hill I understand that!
FrakU2 audiophiles can range from all types of people. It is just a categorization of those who are enthusiastic or passionate about high-fidelity audio/music. People can have the shittiest pair of headphones or speakers, but if their mindset is geared towards wanting the best reproduction of music, then even they can be considered an audiophile.
Very interesting video series and enjoyable too!
I had several issues in my room and had done several trials and treatment. And my final solution was using "active" correction which is McIntosh MEN220.... To correct the final part of the link after the best I could achieve for passive correction. The key to a good active solution is not just the reliability for the machine, but the way you calibrate the room. You may wish to consider that :-)
i love audio engineering it is just so fun in so many aspects.
neat.
i was aware that Infinity ever made something quite this grand.
what amplifiers are those?
was there a part 2 ? ive not come across it yet.
Did you consider the correction factor for neck length in Helmholtz resonator?
Hello Paul. Were you able to make it work? What did you learn from this? It seemed as a good idea.
Slot resonators work better on low-mid as opposed to low, as far as I understand. It seems you all may need to use bass traps. Since you wanna keep the room looking clean, how about just building them into the corners. Also, I wonder if your room has a false ceiling (drop ceiling). If so, you can implement acoustic hangers above the ceiling and behind the walls. Those should serve well.
Wondering when you Make the holes bigger if that will help?
I´m using AKG Y55 headphones and i can both hear and feel the 25-30hz, it tickles my ears :-)
What were you using for amps back then before the BHK's?
Hmm, spending a lot of time and money on a room resulting in a 40dB variation between 50Hz and 200Hz, even with 1/3 octave smoothing and still getting comments on your expertise is a great accomplishment in itself.
JUST AMAZING! i would like to hear that "set"
oh! thanks a lot! but im affraid yhat its not so easy.. because i live in Spain... ;)
There is a correction factor of 1.6 to be applied on the length of the neck to obtain the effective length.
Is there any reason why you would not want to use an active 1/3 octave band equalizer to tune those speakers to match the room ??
equalizer are ok for pro-audio but audiophiles, not so good because of phase shifts, and multiple frequencies effected, harmonics. etc.
@@jotunman627 Phase shifts aren't a problem, that's a myth. It's not like you're overlaying phase shifted and a non phase shifted signals.
You can't EQ a room mode. You could take out a frequency completely, but then you would miss that frequency. An effective bass trap will get rid of the room mode by getting rid of the reflection of the sound wave only.
@@jotunman627 Phase shift is only a big deal in pro audio. That's why studio monitors (real ones) integrate phase coherent drivers in their systems. Audiophile systems like the IRS V's are COMPLETELY out of phase from top to bottom. As long as it sounds good that's all that matters. Pro systems aren't necessarily better sounding but they must be as 'correct' as possible or the fault continues all the way down the line to you the audiophile.
I would suggest a different method that is much more efficient than anything else for that matter. It's a corner airtight sealed triangle bass trap that has a sheet of owing fiber glass and a air gap in the back corner and the front facing plywood. The plywood must resonate with your target peak low freq. the efficiency of this design, from pressure to velocity is among if not the highest. Hope this helps. R.
so how did it ends?
LOL ….. This is when we say back to the drawing board.
Sound cloud very effective room acoustic controller.
At least, you should use a resolution of 1/12 per octave and a sweep tone for bass analysis.
Great video! A couple of thoughts.
Those Rat Shack SPL meters are hideously inaccurate at low frequencies.
As someone else pointed out, bass peaks and dips in a room will often swing wildly over just a couple of inches, so I find that sitting with the meter held casually in your hand leads to inconsistent readings.
I have never been a fan of listening chairs with a tall back that includes a headrest behind your ears. The short reflection from the headrest to your ears causes a loss of focus.
These speakers sure look expensive and they sound huge , i can see why ppl are blown away when they hear them , its exactly what its made for
You actually lowering the resonance frequency of the resonators when blocking them at 7:14. The acoustic mass gets bigger when the holes gets smaller...
Seems you are right.. you can also tune any vented port that way.. Put a role of cardboard into it, the diameter gets smaller, the resonance frequency gets deeper.. Because mostly you cannot make the port longer.. but you can make the diameter smaller..
hey paul, i think you got too much damping material in the resonators, it sucks too much and too fast energy out of the in coming air, helmholz rules say only 1/3 off chamber hight should filled with damping material, please let me know if you got any difference
If that spectrum analyzer is correct your biggest issue is not a small bass bump, its that you really don't have any bass whatsoever. I really hope you got that sorted!
1:34 nice !!
Paul , I just followed your vids straight through. Lol , sorry your bass resonators didn't work out as intended.
What chairs are you using n your listening room?
Compared to this room I don't have an audio system or ears. :-) How wonderfully bizarre!
Hmm, it would appear that this did not end well...
Hi i am following your videos long back, i also respect your knowledge of audio electronics.And i am sure may be you are missing one link in this home audio reproduction chain. I strongly request you to watch one video on youtube of Mr. Bob Robbins at RMAF.
do you need advise of what to do Now for the low freq if yes Contact me :)
Duct tape is the #1 tool in the world.
why don't you cover your whole back and side walls with bass absorbing materials instead of using acoustic suppressiong tubes? It would look a lot cleaner than all those standing tubes
Helmholtz is not wrong; you just need at least 25x the amount of absorbing area than what you have now...
I was going to say the same thing 25 hz is around 528 inches in wavelength lol. Good luck with that.
Why is Conan O'briens sidekick messing with the guys system.
Wow I can definitely hear the 30hz on my headphones 🎧
Your Helmholtz method does not make sense in trying to tame massive low-freq peaks.
In such a room, bass traps on the wall and corners of room would have been a far more direct solution to the issue.
Without any room treatment all, fully open the door, and your low freq issue goes away. Im very sure. Thats why you need REAL bass traps.
Wants pure sounds. Buys resonators, that add resonance to the sound. *dies*
Raymond Leggs you clearly have no idea how a helmholtz resonator works.
Why not use an equalizer in the system instead of messing with the room.
Obsesses over low frequency resonances, nobody will notice and spends hours and lots of money measuring instead of just kicking back and enjoying real music and not that jazz obscure acousticrap and easylistening and granddad music. Bring on the Nine inch nails, squarepusher, BT, Kendrick Lamar, Armin van buuren, Tiesto, Hardwell, AC/DC, skrillex, Metallica, Rammstien, Leaves eyes, cult of luna, Godhead, Zeromancer, marina and the diamonds, Halsey, sleigh bells, Beach house, wildhoney etc...
sorry you are a idiot , good room acoustics makes more difference than good speakers and you seem to thing what sort of grandpa music you listen to makes a difference , the music doesn't matter if you have a good system for listening to jazz or rock it will also sound good for dubstep ect too , a good system will sound good no matter the music it players weather.. as you say grandpa jazz or some heavy hitting drum and bass