I appreciate how the folks at Shadiversity give contrasting viewpoints fair consideration. I also appreciate that the response video to Shadiversity was also done in such good faith. This is the type of community that will hold together despite certain efforts to suppress it.
@@Dinoslay I read it as a 3rd party attempting to suppress medieval hobbies overall. Like politicians as an example. I imagine it’s hard to get swords and other medieval tools in certain countries. Especially for things like LARPing or sports with smaller followings such as Armored Combat Worldwide.😊 Also “by whom.”
The dude with the beanie is like . . . he gives off such hard core vibes. Deep voice, huge beard, does this sport- he could totally be like a badass superhero
^This Using reverse grip swords as your primary style (Zatoichi) will put you at a major disadvantage. But if there's a brief moment where a reverse grip may help, such as this grappling, someone attacking you from behind, etc, quickly switching, striking, and then reverting is definitely valid, even if situational.
Honestly Shad if you're reading this, know that I'm giving you props for this. In the past I think you've sometimes doubled down a bit on your opinions, here it seems you've really kept an open mind and been very fair So again props to you
Reverse grip needs to be practiced to enhance body mechanics. You won’t have much reach in reverse grip so you have to contort your body and use better footwork to make your movements “effective.” Once your body mechanics improve you then return to standard grip with an improved way of moving. Reverse grip training with a knife/dagger also teaches elbow striking and body levers.
@@santi_super_stunts2573 More like practicing on one leg so your proprioception improves and your hips gain flexibility so when you fight normally you’ll have improved attributes. Reverse grip is a indirect route to improving body mechanics. Like how weightlifting won’t teach you to fight but being stronger and having an athletic advantage will make fighting easier.
@@santi_super_stunts2573 Yes. You don’t need to practice reverse grip, stand on one leg, or lift weights. You can just learn conventional fighting skills and be fine. If you want to be better after that - practice indirect skills.
Unless his perspective is tainted by being that size. I no nothing about bohurt (however it's spelled) but it looks to me like he could win against most people just by being bigger than them. I doubt a smaller opponent could grapple him down effectively, definately not without also going down. So if thats the case, it doesn't really matter what weapon or grip style he chooses. Just bash your opponent from outside their range and then overpower them when the gap closes.
I've never even heard of this kind of fighting before so it's absolutely fascinating not only discovering that people ACTUALLY DO THIS IRL but seeing it and how what they're explaining is applied in a practical situation within their style of fighting.
From a Filipino Martial Arts perspective: The reverse grip is more of an emergency grip, though we do have some methods utilizing the grip to practice in case of that situation. This method is usually done in conjunction with a dagger on the off hand or the off hand is used as a checking hand. This also means the combatants would be in closer range.
Its not quite the same, but that helmet Shad wants is very similar to the "Helmet from “Romance of Alexander” with Ash/Brass Cross" form Buhurt Tech and the "ROA helmet “Guardian” steel cross" from Medieval Extreme and the "Alexander helmet with golden cross" from Master-Uley. In fact, many brands make a bascinet with a cross face plate.
With all the sound from the armor i get why some armor can give disadvatage stealth or penalties in D&D and other games! Buhurt sounds like fun! I would need a strecher afterward though! Loved this video! Great to see engagement like this from the community!
There's a Metatron video on the topic of stealth in armor where he compares different armors in different situations. Surprisingly, all of the shown armors can be stealthy, but at different levels of limitation.
Just wanna say that I personally love Buhurt. I don’t do it myself and have never had an opportunity to attend a fight, but I love watching videos that show it. It’s that brute force knowing that nobody is holding back combined with a medieval theme that I obviously like cause I watch Shad’s videos. Also even though it may look like it, nobody in the Buhurt community is angry and they’re mostly super chill. I was waiting for a video where Shad would mention it. 😄
I went to a medieval festival in France last weekend at saw a bit of Buhurt. Wrestling seemed to be at least half of the game. for the other part it's more about hitting from a far distance, while your mates are grabbing the opponent. From what i saw, polearm axe seems the best.
They also still haven't addressed that there are some iai techniques (quick draw and attack) in kenjutsu that use reverse grip, particularly for when opponent is very close to you and regular drawing becomes sub optimal. Like shown here: ua-cam.com/video/YUnu2nmmYDQ/v-deo.html
Considering "real" armoured fights, as in a battle with sharps, I think you could just grab your own blade instead of that huge handle and get the same effect while not being in reverse grip? That doesn't work with the guy's sword because its blade is very broad but it would work on a longsword just fine. And if you tried to get that grip behind the opponents' back with a regular arming sword or longsword in reverse grip, it would be much harder due to the shorter handle... So even though he is very right about his points, I feel they are 1) very specific to his weapon, 2) wouldn't apply the same way or even completely flip around with another weapon and 3) some of them require the context not only to be armoured fights, but Buhurt specifically, which really only takes 20% of what an armoured duel or battle means. The point I do very much appreciate however is about not running into your opponent in a high stance so your plate can take the impact.
So what is “real” armored fights, buhurt is based off of medieval tournaments, that did use the same type of equipment included blunted weapons. It is a tournament not warfare. It is historically accurate.
@@matthewgreen6131 I mean, "A battle, with sharps" he DID describe what he considered as "real armoured fights." And yeah, it's a valid point. If it were a real fight, you'd be carrying a dagger. So many of these techniques would not be as effective.
@@matthewgreen6131 I did specify that I meant a battle with sharps. While I agree with your point, that doesn't change the fact that you still could just grab your own blade while longswording behind the opponent's back instead of your own oversized handle.
reverse grip has always been seen to me as something you do for defense and usually with a smaller sword or long knife. yes a shield would work better but if youve lost it and all you have is a long dagger and your sword left it is an effective way of defending while attacking.(this also applies to cultures were hand held shield are not common) as far as knives though reverse grip is super useful when combined with a grappling fighting style like most militaries use to day as it allows one to maintain control and still give lethal blows.
The problem with custom weapons for reverse grip is that majority of the time you want the stabby, cutty part of your weapon to face the person or thing needing to be cut or stabbed. Reverse grip has it's niche, but certainly doesn't seem practical to rely upon.
like a lot of niche fighting styles or even certain weapons like daggers can have there advantage, but it's only a tool to be mixed up with more conventional fighting styles, like beanie guy demonstrates in the video.
Good when running so you don't fall on it (bad if someone else is around you though). Not good for fighting other than a quick slash while grappling in close quarters. More suited to a dagger.
That long handled no guard sword he used seemed like a great "custom weapon" for reverse grip. Still very effective in normal grip and wearing gauntlets negates the need for a guard, but also the long handle was demonstrated to be an excellent grappling tool in reverse grip.
@@craigtothec I mean, the weapon needs to be pointed at the attacker. The rare times you need to reverse, can just do it. No need to fine tune something for such a very rare moment. It'd be like cutting a staff in half then embedding a hidden chain for the few times a nunchuck might be useful.
I don't think it's that bad. If a 10 year old sung a bat. They can definitely hit hard enough to bruise. It genuinely hurts. If I reverse swing with a bat, I'm pretty sure I could hit harder then the ten year old. Just saying. It's surprising easy to hurt people. Of course reverse grip me pales to normal grip me. Easy.
some at my HEMA club have started doing 'armoureed HEMA'. I went to one session. This isnt hema in armour, it is using armoured fighting techniques, i.e. only half sword, no striking. These sort of techniques are not allowed in reenactment, and i imagine buhurt. Typically the lead hand is on the blade in a reverse grip, with the back hand on the grip in a normal position.
I've think I've seen a variation in HEMA (Historical German dagger) with this against someone's elbow with a rondel dagger. This is done however after both you and your opponent have entered grappling range and started to wrestle so it's possible to isolate your opponent's arm long enough to give you a chance to strike it.
I always find it great on how open minded yet always strong with what you side with. I can definitely say I learn a lot more than history and science from this channel, though you guys definitely teach a lot of that too.
well at this point in armour your sword is a steely stick so it becomes a conventional style. i like the discussion but i think this is an other matter...
Gonna say it again on this video. Using reverse grip on a secondary weapon used to tangle up the enemies weapon such as reverse gripping a sickle or a sword breaker dagger with a main handed sword in standard grip is a beautiful way to use that grip effectively.
Weaponism has some great videos of folks reverse grip/ dual wield. Great video as always Shadiversity. Hey, are you excited for the new Conan chapter - Age of war? Looks like some amazing stuff. Hope to see you, AZ, and the crew checking it out come release:)
Reverse grip works best when you are using two different weapons. Usually the main hand is used traditionally and the off hand is used reverse grip. This is great because it doubles the angles of attack you can use against your opponent.
That mostly depends on the weapons you're using. If one is significantly longer then the other like in rapier, dagger you aren't going to be fighting in a range where reverse grip is gonna help and fighting in reverse grip will hinder the parrying capabilities of the dagger. But I could see that working if you're working with two shorter weapons like two daggers.
@@danielcubias432 I would say it would be used most effectively to deflect rather than block/parry. Which would typically require less energy if the weapon you are using is lighter. Much like the parrying dagger, but instead of stopping an attack you redirect it.
@@kayschut9327 Parrying dagger is actually a lot more like using a Buckler then you'd think, plus leverage will often matter more then weight. The concept of Strong and Weak. The shorter the weapon the more strong you have, the longer the more weak you have meaning you can have an easier time Parrying a sword as long as your strong meets their weak which you have a higher chance of doing. But that can vary of course a weapon with a weighted head like an axe you're going to have a bad time if you try to use your dagger to stop it at the blade.
Amazing video as always, thank for providing us with those couple minutes of entertainment and giving us a glimpse of light in those rainy days. Love you all. Peace and Love
It probably has a place, but it's likely it's more useful for some of the dual-wielding styles of fighting. Dominant hand will use the standard grip, but the non-dominant will be reversed. And the secondary weapon being a knife, dagger, or perhaps something like a sai.
i feel like the part i got from your original video about reverse grip was that it had its possibile uses , mainly for grapling stances, but you go back to a normal grip as soon as you can if the move fail \ end . so i found most of this redundant to the argument . but they made a good argument about armor fighting and covering for someone else, the part about not exposing your weak point of the armor ( under the arms) to parry is actualy insightfull .
Something I think doesn’t get talked about enough in regard to reverse grip, is the type of sword you’re using. I’d say to have a better chance in reverse grip fighting, you’d want a guard in front of your hand and not have a cross guard inhibit your wrist control. Also a curved blade could allow for blade clashing to work in your favor.
I feel like reverse grip is either highly situational or bound to specific type of weapons, like spear , long knifes etc. EDIT: corrected wrong auto-correct
A little late to the party on this one but maybe my experience with this will be useful. For 2 or so years I did a very rough version of Amtgard so just contact basically. One of the practical applications I found for reverse grip was in dual wielding. Full disclosure, I have been a subscriber for awhile but fell out of watching content for some time so if this point has already been addressed I apologize. The part I remember on a video against duel wielding, which my own experience confirmed to a certain degree, was the tangling up of your own blades and certain strikes being impossible without putting yourself in a bad position. The setup I found through trial and error, hours of practice and many lost duels was an arming sword to long sword in length in the non dominant hand and a short to bastard sword in the dominant hand(leftys represent). With this strategy I found that sword users had to recover and attack much faster and harder break my guard and score a hit. I could even get inside the guard of spear and pole arm users much faster than using a single weapon by fainting a low strike with my dominant hand to lower their guard, following through that feint with my reverse gripped sword(essentially using the meat of the blade to punch their weapon into the dirt) and landing an overhead strike with my dominant hand still in regular grip to either of their shoulders as head strikes aren't allowed. From what I remember on the duel wielding video, there might have been a section talking about it being effective with asymmetrical weapon lengths but maybe this a possibility that hasn't been considered. I also hand the thought after making a shield that maybe this isn't as effective but after some dueling back then and binging some recent videos where the tower shield makes an appearance, it seemed that the only way you get the same coverage with a shield is by having one the size of a tower shield. I was able to overcome a massive power strike at my legs by just stabbing into the ground with the reverse grip it was just held in place and I imagine with a real steel sword on dirt (we were always on blacktop) this effect would be greater without trapping the blade. Another advantage you have with the sword instead of a shield is its still a sword. Not to say can't attack with a shield as shield bashing is a thing even if it was illegal to frown upon in our format but you still have ability slash and stab with it. Sure it harder to go for body stab but you can still put a lot of power into a downward stab at the legs in close quarters or as mentioned in this video you would like to get an armored opponent on their back so pulling looney tunes type move and stabbing them in the foot to pin it while pushing with the dominant arm or possibly more practically, hooking the back of their leg with the blade instead of around the back with the handle could be effective. Plus then once they're on ground you already have the blade turned over for the coup de grace so there you are. This response is entirely off the cuff and just my first impressions on thinking about it and my personal experience. It's entirely possible my sparring partners sucked or were just unprepared to adapt to a left handed opponent. Also since coming back to the channel and seeing some the life updates, it's been very heartwarming to see you come to life since the surgery. All the best wishes for your future fights and the channel. First time comment out.
All over the country, as a matter of fact the guys from the video are from sacramento California on the warpigs. There is a fight in ventura on the 27th at promenade park. I wont be there sadly but Dylan (beanie on the video) will be.
Imagine if issues at large throughout the cultural and political zeitgeist could be discussed with as much good faith and nuance as is demonstrated by channels like these two. I can dream...
Hey, wait... I saw this on the livestream! Kicking the YT algorithm right in the teeth! We will prevail! Keep 'er goin', Shad! Also, break down A Knight's Tale. I'm a very stubborn person...I will continue.
Yeah, I even commented on the original video. My training is in grappling-style fighting, and I saw the opportunity for grappling in the reverse-grip instantly while you guys were doing the original video, especially in some of the early testing when you were trying to push the sword down. My comment was literally about how the sword got naturally pushed into a cover position over the body and also put the opponent wide-open for a grappling follow-up.
one of the best applications i've ever seen of reverse grip fighting has honestly been in kung fu, because it's mostly used as a braced deflection, and a hooking/grappling technique as well as the age old ice pick grip stab, but usually that's used as a followup to a successful hook or grappling technique
Had someone done a specialised reverse grip sword before like a pomel knuckle guard with a ricaso like protuberance for blocking in reverse grip something in the size of an arming sword
Its actually a lot hard to maneuver and manipulate it with a guard, gauntlets are pretty bulky. Some people use them but they are restricted to just chopping and not nearly as good with grappling.
I will reiterate that, when dual-wielding, especially in a LARP context, a reverse grip on the left hand is the next best thing to a shield (for instance when it is "broken"). It allows for minimal effort in blocking incoming blows while the weapon in the main hand strikes simultaneously.
The one situation that I was able to come up with where reverse grip has advantages over normal grip (after hearing that there was a situation that you didn't cover) is on Horseback. You don't really need to block and bind (deflection is all you need for passing attacks). And the fact that the sword naturally points _down and out_ actually lines up with where you'll want to attack against ground troops. The only problem is that you are completely making attacks on the off-hand side impossible, but those attacks are problematic in normal grip anyways. Is that just my complete lack of experience with sword fighting, or is there something to this?
What I take as basically proven is that blocking is _much_ worse, and that you are robbing yourself of some attack directions. 1st idea) Dual wielding with two reverse grips? You'd have trouble blocking. 2nd idea) Dual wielding with a reverse grip in the off hand? You'd largely cancel out the problems if you block with your main weapon, but I don't think you could use that off-hand sword _better_ than in normal grip. 3rd idea) Reverse grip with shield? Blocking weakness won't matter, but you'd really be missing the ability to attack around the shield that the reverse grip hampers. 4th idea) *Horseback!*
With such a custom sword and way its used + kinda specific scenario/purpose: full armor and teaming, wouldn't STICK, metal rod, blunt or mace like weapon do even better? For deflecting and grappling seems even better and definitely for clubbing down 😅
Ok couple things, That is not a custom sword it is a carcass splitter, second people use maces all the time in this sport, downside is none of those have the sheer power his carcass splitter has, When he does swing with it he breaks people. Normally a 2 handed sword in this sport is bot really used defensively this is a way for him to use it as such and still have it for swings.
The RBF on Terry 😂 is priceless always funny when the tuff guy in a group realizes that’s not saying much 😂😂😂 LOVE YOU SHAD!!!!! MAY THE CREATOR SMILE UPON YOU AND YOUR LOVE ONES
Really enjoyed this. I was hoping you guys were going to do a response. Now I am wondering how many others that watch have their own armor? Also, how many do these live battles?
the reverse grip is also the finishing thrust when the opp is on the ground and you try to stab him downwards. but that, ofc, is when the duel is practically over. although generally would have to come naturally if your position is higher than the opponent's center mass. like down slope or on a fence or other height advantage
I was kind of confused about how the shad guys were attempting to use rev grip in their tests. I was like, "No, that's not how you use it!". In my experience as a teenager, sparring with my friends, I always found rev grip to be an amazingly good defensive stance, in which I would keep the blade held high, pointing down. This would put it within easy short movement of where it needed to be to block literally any angle of incoming slash, and thrusts could be parried a little differently from how they would be handled in forward grip. The leverage problems that they expressed weren't a problem for me. There were always ways to avoid getting into binds where that could be an issue, or to adjust my footing, hold, and blade position/angle to compensate if I did. The downside, of course, was the utter garbage that rev grip was for offense, due to its lack of reach. As a result, it was always best for dual wielding with one sword held defensively in reverse, and the other held forward and ready to take advantage of openings that resulted from an opponent's sword being busy getting blocked by my defensive one. On the other hand, we were just teenagers doing a lot of sparring and playfighting with PVC pipes, sticks, or wooden swords and/or shields that I made in my dad's workshop. We _did_ do a LOT of it, but I wouldn't exactly call us experts like Shad and Company or the guys in the response video. Perhaps I'd find that things worked out differently if I were still strong and healthy enough to pick up swording again as a more serious hobby.
Reverse grip would actually be really cool and maybe viable as a dual wield. Aka double reverse grip and/or "Ashoka style" where you have one long blade in regular grip and a shorter or equal length blade in reverse grip. Another thing about reverse grip that you kind of touched on in the original video is you can easily switch back and forth between a regular and reverse grip. So to me dual wielding so you can switch grips with the off blades would be interesting. Once you add that second blade reverse grip becomes a whole lot more interesting. Especially if you do it like Ashoka does. She primarily used that second blade in reverse but she was also switching between grips on both hands really quickly and I think seeing it tested like that would actually be cool. Now she does probably use reverse grip more than most because lightsaber fighting is a lot more hit and retreat than power through but it does show a possible use for it.
I've already watched the video and I think you guys should do another video about reverse grip and should probably focus on how there should be swords that are DESIGNED for reverse grip like how barron's sword was and was discussed.
Beanie guy's voice is awesome. I wonder if a forward-curve blade would work well with reverse grip. It'd be hard, sure, given that reverse grip is less practices and forward curves make cutting harder, but it seems like that would mix well with the styles of buts reverse grip fosters. It might neuter the thrust, though.
@@Malacar99 they used to offer a really cool glaive-like weapon...think it was the reaper or something? Wasn't quite a full sized polearm, more like a sword on a stick...but I think they stopped making that model. All I can say is their products are robust and durable as hell. I think my next ZT will be one of their smaller things like a knife or cleaver. Might find some real world use for those, my Apokatana is just for fun/show. The kydex sheath is cool though, it has a cutout that let's you tilt the sword so it can be drawn from the back properly...just for all your animu sword-drawing fantasies!
The correct pronunciation of the middle-high-german word buhurt (buhurd) is: boo-hoord. Both oo- sounds are the same with a slight accentuation on the first syllable.
What I could think of is knife fighting, war axes, or half-swording; they would all use a reverse grip. In the sportfied rules of Buhurt, yes, that works; however, in history, I question how effective that is because Buhurt does not allow stabbing.
It blows my mind that anyone who likes HEMA would be so buddy-buddy with Buhurt people tbh lol. Considering the almost diametrically opposed approaches on what is pretty much the same topic (medieval combat), I feel like the HEMA crowd should be at the throats of the Buhurt crowd after seeing how Buhurt has kind of become the ambassador for "medieval combat" when you look at some of the views some videos get lol
Eh I participate in Buhurt but fully respect HEMA. I always view buhurt as recreating medieval tournaments while Hema focuses more on practical combat with intent on efficiency and actually using deadly force. Hema also majority of the time is more out of armor combat (not all just most)
Nah there is a lot of respect across fields, Hema does take a lot of practice and skill as does buhurt just different types. Of course there are arrogant jerks on both sides but for the most part its just another sport.
What worries me is that elitists/snobs may look at this totally valid video and just denounce it because it's "not real sword fighting, just barbarians clashing at each other."
The define "real swordfighting." becuase this is Armoured fighting. Where the objective is to knock your opponent to the ground, not to cut or stab them, ect. Buhurt is about bashing and grappling opponents, so yeah it's not "real swordfighting" primarily because you barely ever see people using swords.
After watching your video on reverse grip i actually grabbed a sword like object i had that had a very long handle and if you place your hand at the front of the handle below the blade and then place one on the pommel you can get something better for thrusting
I appreciate how the folks at Shadiversity give contrasting viewpoints fair consideration. I also appreciate that the response video to Shadiversity was also done in such good faith.
This is the type of community that will hold together despite certain efforts to suppress it.
Suppress it? By who? So far all that I’ve seen is good will interaction between medieval enthusiasts.
@@Dinoslay I read it as a 3rd party attempting to suppress medieval hobbies overall. Like politicians as an example. I imagine it’s hard to get swords and other medieval tools in certain countries. Especially for things like LARPing or sports with smaller followings such as Armored Combat Worldwide.😊
Also “by whom.”
I remember some people in the past that couldn't play nice though
@@Dinoslay
A good example was when Shad highlighted an alternative method of drawing a bow.
Some people were gatekeeping like crazy.
lightsaber in reverse grip is better because it is throwing weapon then
The dude with the beanie is like . . . he gives off such hard core vibes. Deep voice, huge beard, does this sport- he could totally be like a badass superhero
Reverso
If he tries to climb Everest, he could be an American Brian Blessed.
I think so too, sounded cool and skilled
More like the teacher who taught the hero everything he knows.
Or the protagonist's big strong friend (like Garrett from FF7).
Momoa at home
I feel like reverse grip is at it's best as a transitional technique, and for momentary exploitation of an opportunity.
^This
Using reverse grip swords as your primary style (Zatoichi) will put you at a major disadvantage. But if there's a brief moment where a reverse grip may help, such as this grappling, someone attacking you from behind, etc, quickly switching, striking, and then reverting is definitely valid, even if situational.
This is where the legendary mall ninja double bladed sword comes into play. 🙃🙂
Honestly Shad if you're reading this, know that I'm giving you props for this. In the past I think you've sometimes doubled down a bit on your opinions, here it seems you've really kept an open mind and been very fair
So again props to you
Reverse grip needs to be practiced to enhance body mechanics. You won’t have much reach in reverse grip so you have to contort your body and use better footwork to make your movements “effective.” Once your body mechanics improve you then return to standard grip with an improved way of moving.
Reverse grip training with a knife/dagger also teaches elbow striking and body levers.
I quite like this way of interpreting it
That’s the same logic as practicing fighting with one leg so when I have use of both I’ll be twice as good
@@santi_super_stunts2573 More like practicing on one leg so your proprioception improves and your hips gain flexibility so when you fight normally you’ll have improved attributes. Reverse grip is a indirect route to improving body mechanics. Like how weightlifting won’t teach you to fight but being stronger and having an athletic advantage will make fighting easier.
@@MG-bi6mq or you could just learn how to fight? Seems a lot more efficient.
@@santi_super_stunts2573 Yes. You don’t need to practice reverse grip, stand on one leg, or lift weights. You can just learn conventional fighting skills and be fine. If you want to be better after that - practice indirect skills.
Always love your videos and been watching your channel for years.
Reverse grip debates are always entertaining as well.
Damn, the beanie guy, Dylan, is built like a mountain and he also sounds like a mountain. Hard to argue with someone like that!
He sounds like Andre the Giant!
Unless his perspective is tainted by being that size.
I no nothing about bohurt (however it's spelled) but it looks to me like he could win against most people just by being bigger than them.
I doubt a smaller opponent could grapple him down effectively, definately not without also going down.
So if thats the case, it doesn't really matter what weapon or grip style he chooses. Just bash your opponent from outside their range and then overpower them when the gap closes.
I've never even heard of this kind of fighting before so it's absolutely fascinating not only discovering that people ACTUALLY DO THIS IRL but seeing it and how what they're explaining is applied in a practical situation within their style of fighting.
I think we found Andre the giant's lost grandson
I do love the folks with experience as close to practical. There is knowledge that the theoretical just doesnt cover
From a Filipino Martial Arts perspective: The reverse grip is more of an emergency grip, though we do have some methods utilizing the grip to practice in case of that situation. This method is usually done in conjunction with a dagger on the off hand or the off hand is used as a checking hand. This also means the combatants would be in closer range.
Its not quite the same, but that helmet Shad wants is very similar to the "Helmet from “Romance of Alexander” with Ash/Brass Cross" form Buhurt Tech and the "ROA helmet “Guardian” steel cross" from Medieval Extreme and the "Alexander helmet with golden cross" from Master-Uley. In fact, many brands make a bascinet with a cross face plate.
That guy has an orc voice so cool
With all the sound from the armor i get why some armor can give disadvatage stealth or penalties in D&D and other games!
Buhurt sounds like fun! I would need a strecher afterward though!
Loved this video! Great to see engagement like this from the community!
There's a Metatron video on the topic of stealth in armor where he compares different armors in different situations. Surprisingly, all of the shown armors can be stealthy, but at different levels of limitation.
Having a long hilt definitely increase the flexabilty to reverse grip!
Hi Shad, love your videos, I'm considering starting a channel to share what I'm passionate about. You guys are an inspiration! 👑
Ahsoka Tano makes it look cool. That's all that matters.
I agree 👍
Reverse grab, authentically very pleasing; practically, purely defensive. (OH, and great for daggers/knives)
The only take that matters
Luke, Did I ever tell you about Ashoka Tano? She was your father’s exotic teenage alien apprentice...
Bruh. Starkiller made it look cool before Ahsoka even existed...
Just wanna say that I personally love Buhurt. I don’t do it myself and have never had an opportunity to attend a fight, but I love watching videos that show it. It’s that brute force knowing that nobody is holding back combined with a medieval theme that I obviously like cause I watch Shad’s videos. Also even though it may look like it, nobody in the Buhurt community is angry and they’re mostly super chill. I was waiting for a video where Shad would mention it. 😄
That tall fellow had me thinking of Edward IV of England at nearly 6' 4, wearing the best armour, strong and highly skilled 😬
hes fighting in a way that reminds me of halfswording and fighting with a poleaxe. Definitely a fully armored style
This was as cool as Pocket Sand, I like their style and explanation. Good back and forth interaction. Big guy was a badass!
I went to a medieval festival in France last weekend at saw a bit of Buhurt. Wrestling seemed to be at least half of the game. for the other part it's more about hitting from a far distance, while your mates are grabbing the opponent.
From what i saw, polearm axe seems the best.
They also still haven't addressed that there are some iai techniques (quick draw and attack) in kenjutsu that use reverse grip, particularly for when opponent is very close to you and regular drawing becomes sub optimal.
Like shown here:
ua-cam.com/video/YUnu2nmmYDQ/v-deo.html
Great content as always. And the Shad-locks are looking good, mate!
Considering "real" armoured fights, as in a battle with sharps, I think you could just grab your own blade instead of that huge handle and get the same effect while not being in reverse grip? That doesn't work with the guy's sword because its blade is very broad but it would work on a longsword just fine. And if you tried to get that grip behind the opponents' back with a regular arming sword or longsword in reverse grip, it would be much harder due to the shorter handle... So even though he is very right about his points, I feel they are 1) very specific to his weapon, 2) wouldn't apply the same way or even completely flip around with another weapon and 3) some of them require the context not only to be armoured fights, but Buhurt specifically, which really only takes 20% of what an armoured duel or battle means.
The point I do very much appreciate however is about not running into your opponent in a high stance so your plate can take the impact.
So what is “real” armored fights, buhurt is based off of medieval tournaments, that did use the same type of equipment included blunted weapons. It is a tournament not warfare. It is historically accurate.
@@matthewgreen6131 I mean, "A battle, with sharps" he DID describe what he considered as "real armoured fights."
And yeah, it's a valid point. If it were a real fight, you'd be carrying a dagger. So many of these techniques would not be as effective.
@@matthewgreen6131 I did specify that I meant a battle with sharps. While I agree with your point, that doesn't change the fact that you still could just grab your own blade while longswording behind the opponent's back instead of your own oversized handle.
@@vaseleth There is a lot more movement to transition between the two stages, tho.
0:25 I'm gonna go with a preemptive "in 99% of cases no, just use it normally" but this is one of my favorite beefs on the planet
Just a comment for our a.i. overlords.
All praise the program.
All glory to the algorithm.
Ever since Metatron said what he said about these guys the entire sword community is walking on eggshells around these emotionally stable boys...
mmm?
could you elaborate a bit? Haven’t been following the community as much in the past few months, so update would be very appreciated
@@yanli111 A few years ago Metatron criticized M1 and received major backlash for it.
reverse grip has always been seen to me as something you do for defense and usually with a smaller sword or long knife. yes a shield would work better but if youve lost it and all you have is a long dagger and your sword left it is an effective way of defending while attacking.(this also applies to cultures were hand held shield are not common)
as far as knives though reverse grip is super useful when combined with a grappling fighting style like most militaries use to day as it allows one to maintain control and still give lethal blows.
The problem with custom weapons for reverse grip is that majority of the time you want the stabby, cutty part of your weapon to face the person or thing needing to be cut or stabbed.
Reverse grip has it's niche, but certainly doesn't seem practical to rely upon.
like a lot of niche fighting styles or even certain weapons like daggers can have there advantage, but it's only a tool to be mixed up with more conventional fighting styles, like beanie guy demonstrates in the video.
Good when running so you don't fall on it (bad if someone else is around you though). Not good for fighting other than a quick slash while grappling in close quarters. More suited to a dagger.
That long handled no guard sword he used seemed like a great "custom weapon" for reverse grip. Still very effective in normal grip and wearing gauntlets negates the need for a guard, but also the long handle was demonstrated to be an excellent grappling tool in reverse grip.
@@BobT36
Would still possibly hurt because the blade is facing back at you.
@@craigtothec
I mean, the weapon needs to be pointed at the attacker. The rare times you need to reverse, can just do it. No need to fine tune something for such a very rare moment.
It'd be like cutting a staff in half then embedding a hidden chain for the few times a nunchuck might be useful.
Reverse grip only works in stabbing. Slashing with a reverse grip may as well be a pool noodle
you can get a pretty good slash with a shorter sword in reverse grip. but yeah not ideal.
If you have plate, the slashing isn't really an option
sound effective to me🤔
I don't think it's that bad. If a 10 year old sung a bat. They can definitely hit hard enough to bruise. It genuinely hurts.
If I reverse swing with a bat, I'm pretty sure I could hit harder then the ten year old. Just saying. It's surprising easy to hurt people.
Of course reverse grip me pales to normal grip me. Easy.
@@lightningpenguin8937 well if you swing hard with a showed you will barely feel it. But if you swing hard with a bat you will get a nasty bruise.
The thumbnail is top notch.
Armor and multiple people both are gamechangers when considering weapon tactics.
I enjoyed this in the live stream and really like that you're sharing opposing views for the long term. Great discussion.
The helm is a "Romance of Alexander" style sugarloaf helmet. Probably from medieval extreme or buhurt tech online shop
Chad, there is a nice video from Njord artisan where he tests the chainmail over leather armor, and I think you may find it interesting.
some at my HEMA club have started doing 'armoureed HEMA'. I went to one session. This isnt hema in armour, it is using armoured fighting techniques, i.e. only half sword, no striking. These sort of techniques are not allowed in reenactment, and i imagine buhurt. Typically the lead hand is on the blade in a reverse grip, with the back hand on the grip in a normal position.
When I used to spar with sword, I only used reverse grip fighting Florentine. The reverse grip blade usually a short sword was in my left for defense.
Jeez, someone lowered that guys pitch slider all the way down.
How about a pommel strike up under the chin if you are reverse grip? Seems like that could be devastating. Love this commentary. Thanks!
Not really, might disorient a hare but helmets do work.
There are pictures of soldiers doing exactly this, except they are grabbing the entire blade with both hands and swinging the pommel like a hammer
I've think I've seen a variation in HEMA (Historical German dagger) with this against someone's elbow with a rondel dagger. This is done however after both you and your opponent have entered grappling range and started to wrestle so it's possible to isolate your opponent's arm long enough to give you a chance to strike it.
I always find it great on how open minded yet always strong with what you side with. I can definitely say I learn a lot more than history and science from this channel, though you guys definitely teach a lot of that too.
well at this point in armour your sword is a steely stick so it becomes a conventional style.
i like the discussion but i think this is an other matter...
I kept having flashbacks to AQ worlds when I would fight with the 'inquisitor captain short polearm', which is more of a swordstaff but was awesome.
Gonna say it again on this video. Using reverse grip on a secondary weapon used to tangle up the enemies weapon such as reverse gripping a sickle or a sword breaker dagger with a main handed sword in standard grip is a beautiful way to use that grip effectively.
if more people make response videos i would love more videos like this
Weaponism has some great videos of folks reverse grip/ dual wield.
Great video as always Shadiversity.
Hey, are you excited for the new Conan chapter - Age of war? Looks like some amazing stuff. Hope to see you, AZ, and the crew checking it out come release:)
Reverse grip works best when you are using two different weapons. Usually the main hand is used traditionally and the off hand is used reverse grip. This is great because it doubles the angles of attack you can use against your opponent.
That mostly depends on the weapons you're using. If one is significantly longer then the other like in rapier, dagger you aren't going to be fighting in a range where reverse grip is gonna help and fighting in reverse grip will hinder the parrying capabilities of the dagger.
But I could see that working if you're working with two shorter weapons like two daggers.
I need more thumbs up on this reply.
@@danielcubias432 I would say it would be used most effectively to deflect rather than block/parry. Which would typically require less energy if the weapon you are using is lighter. Much like the parrying dagger, but instead of stopping an attack you redirect it.
@@kayschut9327 Parrying dagger is actually a lot more like using a Buckler then you'd think, plus leverage will often matter more then weight. The concept of Strong and Weak. The shorter the weapon the more strong you have, the longer the more weak you have meaning you can have an easier time Parrying a sword as long as your strong meets their weak which you have a higher chance of doing. But that can vary of course a weapon with a weighted head like an axe you're going to have a bad time if you try to use your dagger to stop it at the blade.
The moment Beanie Guy started talking, I became convinced he was the reincarnation of Andre the Giant.
Amazing video as always, thank for providing us with those couple minutes of entertainment and giving us a glimpse of light in those rainy days. Love you all. Peace and Love
It probably has a place, but it's likely it's more useful for some of the dual-wielding styles of fighting. Dominant hand will use the standard grip, but the non-dominant will be reversed. And the secondary weapon being a knife, dagger, or perhaps something like a sai.
i feel like the part i got from your original video about reverse grip was that it had its possibile uses , mainly for grapling stances, but you go back to a normal grip as soon as you can if the move fail \ end . so i found most of this redundant to the argument .
but they made a good argument about armor fighting and covering for someone else, the part about not exposing your weak point of the armor ( under the arms) to parry is actualy insightfull .
Holy cow I would NOT want to find myself in the way of Dylan.
Something I think doesn’t get talked about enough in regard to reverse grip, is the type of sword you’re using. I’d say to have a better chance in reverse grip fighting, you’d want a guard in front of your hand and not have a cross guard inhibit your wrist control. Also a curved blade could allow for blade clashing to work in your favor.
I feel like reverse grip is either highly situational or bound to specific type of weapons, like spear , long knifes etc.
EDIT: corrected wrong auto-correct
A little late to the party on this one but maybe my experience with this will be useful. For 2 or so years I did a very rough version of Amtgard so just contact basically. One of the practical applications I found for reverse grip was in dual wielding. Full disclosure, I have been a subscriber for awhile but fell out of watching content for some time so if this point has already been addressed I apologize.
The part I remember on a video against duel wielding, which my own experience confirmed to a certain degree, was the tangling up of your own blades and certain strikes being impossible without putting yourself in a bad position. The setup I found through trial and error, hours of practice and many lost duels was an arming sword to long sword in length in the non dominant hand and a short to bastard sword in the dominant hand(leftys represent). With this strategy I found that sword users had to recover and attack much faster and harder break my guard and score a hit. I could even get inside the guard of spear and pole arm users much faster than using a single weapon by fainting a low strike with my dominant hand to lower their guard, following through that feint with my reverse gripped sword(essentially using the meat of the blade to punch their weapon into the dirt) and landing an overhead strike with my dominant hand still in regular grip to either of their shoulders as head strikes aren't allowed.
From what I remember on the duel wielding video, there might have been a section talking about it being effective with asymmetrical weapon lengths but maybe this a possibility that hasn't been considered.
I also hand the thought after making a shield that maybe this isn't as effective but after some dueling back then and binging some recent videos where the tower shield makes an appearance, it seemed that the only way you get the same coverage with a shield is by having one the size of a tower shield. I was able to overcome a massive power strike at my legs by just stabbing into the ground with the reverse grip it was just held in place and I imagine with a real steel sword on dirt (we were always on blacktop) this effect would be greater without trapping the blade.
Another advantage you have with the sword instead of a shield is its still a sword. Not to say can't attack with a shield as shield bashing is a thing even if it was illegal to frown upon in our format but you still have ability slash and stab with it. Sure it harder to go for body stab but you can still put a lot of power into a downward stab at the legs in close quarters or as mentioned in this video you would like to get an armored opponent on their back so pulling looney tunes type move and stabbing them in the foot to pin it while pushing with the dominant arm or possibly more practically, hooking the back of their leg with the blade instead of around the back with the handle could be effective. Plus then once they're on ground you already have the blade turned over for the coup de grace so there you are.
This response is entirely off the cuff and just my first impressions on thinking about it and my personal experience. It's entirely possible my sparring partners sucked or were just unprepared to adapt to a left handed opponent. Also since coming back to the channel and seeing some the life updates, it's been very heartwarming to see you come to life since the surgery. All the best wishes for your future fights and the channel. First time comment out.
Where r these matches held? R there any in southern California, i would love to go to one. They look like immensely fun to watch.
All over the country, as a matter of fact the guys from the video are from sacramento California on the warpigs. There is a fight in ventura on the 27th at promenade park. I wont be there sadly but Dylan (beanie on the video) will be.
@@matthewgreen6131 o cool. Thxs for the reply
Very interesting discussion, I like differing perspectives from the Buhurt lads. Also did that giant huff SF6 before filming?
With a katana-like sword I use a feint cut and then follow-up with a reverse grip to stab straight ahead.
Which would bounce off the armor.
Reverse grip works with Lightsabers, but that’s only because there is no pressure required to cut, you only need a touch.
I've only seen reverse grip effectively used on things like karambits and I still prefer a forward grip with those. I would rather have the reach.
Imagine if issues at large throughout the cultural and political zeitgeist could be discussed with as much good faith and nuance as is demonstrated by channels like these two. I can dream...
Hey, wait... I saw this on the livestream! Kicking the YT algorithm right in the teeth! We will prevail! Keep 'er goin', Shad! Also, break down A Knight's Tale. I'm a very stubborn person...I will continue.
Yeah, I even commented on the original video. My training is in grappling-style fighting, and I saw the opportunity for grappling in the reverse-grip instantly while you guys were doing the original video, especially in some of the early testing when you were trying to push the sword down.
My comment was literally about how the sword got naturally pushed into a cover position over the body and also put the opponent wide-open for a grappling follow-up.
But this is more about polearm mechanics with its long grip. a normal-sized sword in a reversed grip still doesn't make much sense overall
one of the best applications i've ever seen of reverse grip fighting has honestly been in kung fu, because it's mostly used as a braced deflection, and a hooking/grappling technique as well as the age old ice pick grip stab, but usually that's used as a followup to a successful hook or grappling technique
How can you not mention the man's voice. He should be in movies lol
Had someone done a specialised reverse grip sword before like a pomel knuckle guard with a ricaso like protuberance for blocking in reverse grip something in the size of an arming sword
Its actually a lot hard to maneuver and manipulate it with a guard, gauntlets are pretty bulky. Some people use them but they are restricted to just chopping and not nearly as good with grappling.
@@matthewgreen6131 ok
This si an example of a comunity responding and sharing respectfully, and it benifits every-one's audiances.
Considering that reverse grip has the tip pointing downwards, I could see it being useful in mounted combat, against footmen.
I find Reverse Grip is best for knives or daggers maybe short swords and Sai.
I will reiterate that, when dual-wielding, especially in a LARP context, a reverse grip on the left hand is the next best thing to a shield (for instance when it is "broken").
It allows for minimal effort in blocking incoming blows while the weapon in the main hand strikes simultaneously.
The one situation that I was able to come up with where reverse grip has advantages over normal grip (after hearing that there was a situation that you didn't cover) is on Horseback.
You don't really need to block and bind (deflection is all you need for passing attacks). And the fact that the sword naturally points _down and out_ actually lines up with where you'll want to attack against ground troops. The only problem is that you are completely making attacks on the off-hand side impossible, but those attacks are problematic in normal grip anyways.
Is that just my complete lack of experience with sword fighting, or is there something to this?
What I take as basically proven is that blocking is _much_ worse, and that you are robbing yourself of some attack directions.
1st idea) Dual wielding with two reverse grips? You'd have trouble blocking.
2nd idea) Dual wielding with a reverse grip in the off hand? You'd largely cancel out the problems if you block with your main weapon, but I don't think you could use that off-hand sword _better_ than in normal grip.
3rd idea) Reverse grip with shield? Blocking weakness won't matter, but you'd really be missing the ability to attack around the shield that the reverse grip hampers.
4th idea) *Horseback!*
With such a custom sword and way its used + kinda specific scenario/purpose: full armor and teaming, wouldn't STICK, metal rod, blunt or mace like weapon do even better? For deflecting and grappling seems even better and definitely for clubbing down 😅
Ok couple things, That is not a custom sword it is a carcass splitter, second people use maces all the time in this sport, downside is none of those have the sheer power his carcass splitter has, When he does swing with it he breaks people. Normally a 2 handed sword in this sport is bot really used defensively this is a way for him to use it as such and still have it for swings.
Ahsoka appears to do a good job with it. Even if its not realistic its atleast possible to make it believable in fantasy; if done well.
It's cause she is wielding lightsabers, which requires no force or pressure to do damage
How am I this early... I'm on the other side of the globe
He might've scheduled it for the northern hemisphere
The RBF on Terry 😂 is priceless always funny when the tuff guy in a group realizes that’s not saying much 😂😂😂 LOVE YOU SHAD!!!!! MAY THE CREATOR SMILE UPON YOU AND YOUR LOVE ONES
Really enjoyed this. I was hoping you guys were going to do a response. Now I am wondering how many others that watch have their own armor? Also, how many do these live battles?
the reverse grip is also the finishing thrust when the opp is on the ground and you try to stab him downwards. but that, ofc, is when the duel is practically over. although generally would have to come naturally if your position is higher than the opponent's center mass. like down slope or on a fence or other height advantage
I was kind of confused about how the shad guys were attempting to use rev grip in their tests. I was like, "No, that's not how you use it!". In my experience as a teenager, sparring with my friends, I always found rev grip to be an amazingly good defensive stance, in which I would keep the blade held high, pointing down. This would put it within easy short movement of where it needed to be to block literally any angle of incoming slash, and thrusts could be parried a little differently from how they would be handled in forward grip. The leverage problems that they expressed weren't a problem for me. There were always ways to avoid getting into binds where that could be an issue, or to adjust my footing, hold, and blade position/angle to compensate if I did.
The downside, of course, was the utter garbage that rev grip was for offense, due to its lack of reach. As a result, it was always best for dual wielding with one sword held defensively in reverse, and the other held forward and ready to take advantage of openings that resulted from an opponent's sword being busy getting blocked by my defensive one.
On the other hand, we were just teenagers doing a lot of sparring and playfighting with PVC pipes, sticks, or wooden swords and/or shields that I made in my dad's workshop. We _did_ do a LOT of it, but I wouldn't exactly call us experts like Shad and Company or the guys in the response video. Perhaps I'd find that things worked out differently if I were still strong and healthy enough to pick up swording again as a more serious hobby.
Reverse grip would actually be really cool and maybe viable as a dual wield. Aka double reverse grip and/or "Ashoka style" where you have one long blade in regular grip and a shorter or equal length blade in reverse grip.
Another thing about reverse grip that you kind of touched on in the original video is you can easily switch back and forth between a regular and reverse grip. So to me dual wielding so you can switch grips with the off blades would be interesting.
Once you add that second blade reverse grip becomes a whole lot more interesting. Especially if you do it like Ashoka does. She primarily used that second blade in reverse but she was also switching between grips on both hands really quickly and I think seeing it tested like that would actually be cool.
Now she does probably use reverse grip more than most because lightsaber fighting is a lot more hit and retreat than power through but it does show a possible use for it.
I've already watched the video and I think you guys should do another video about reverse grip and should probably focus on how there should be swords that are DESIGNED for reverse grip like how barron's sword was and was discussed.
So in a nutshell, reverse grip is for close quarter grappling?
Certain weapons are designed for reverse grip, some are capable of reverse grip. Long sword was not designed for reverse grip.
Medieval Kratos has a point
🗿finally puttin it to the test after all these debates
Beanie guy's voice is awesome.
I wonder if a forward-curve blade would work well with reverse grip. It'd be hard, sure, given that reverse grip is less practices and forward curves make cutting harder, but it seems like that would mix well with the styles of buts reverse grip fosters. It might neuter the thrust, though.
The duel at the end of Sanjuro uses a gnarly reverse grip trick. Would that actually work?
If i'm on the battlefield and i hear that guy's voice on the oposite team, i'm either dipping or start saying py prayer. Dats a DEEP voice. DAIUM
Y’all really just answering all the questions I had as a boy about swords and making money off of it😂. Bravo
Need do a video on the Pugio
that blade reminded me of the Reaver Cleaver from Zombie Tools. Always seemed like a generically useful weapon type.
I have their Apokatana and that thing is very well built. Would love to get another ZT product someday!
I really want the Spit myself. Its on my list of things to do with free cash at some point 😁
@@Malacar99 they used to offer a really cool glaive-like weapon...think it was the reaper or something? Wasn't quite a full sized polearm, more like a sword on a stick...but I think they stopped making that model.
All I can say is their products are robust and durable as hell. I think my next ZT will be one of their smaller things like a knife or cleaver. Might find some real world use for those, my Apokatana is just for fun/show.
The kydex sheath is cool though, it has a cutout that let's you tilt the sword so it can be drawn from the back properly...just for all your animu sword-drawing fantasies!
@@Mad_Possum yeah, thats why I'd go with The Spit since its basically a double edged sword on a long handle. Close as I can get :)
@@Malacar99 i was checking their site just now and I'm in love with the Scyllis now for a knife option, might be taking it camping in the future!
The long handle on a messer is often used in messer fighting for grappling and hooking kind of like a reverse gripped dagger
The correct pronunciation of the middle-high-german word buhurt (buhurd) is: boo-hoord. Both oo- sounds are the same with a slight accentuation on the first syllable.
What I could think of is knife fighting, war axes, or half-swording; they would all use a reverse grip. In the sportfied rules of Buhurt, yes, that works; however, in history, I question how effective that is because Buhurt does not allow stabbing.
The Zombie Tools Spit would be perfect for some of these techniques.
It blows my mind that anyone who likes HEMA would be so buddy-buddy with Buhurt people tbh lol. Considering the almost diametrically opposed approaches on what is pretty much the same topic (medieval combat), I feel like the HEMA crowd should be at the throats of the Buhurt crowd after seeing how Buhurt has kind of become the ambassador for "medieval combat" when you look at some of the views some videos get lol
Eh I participate in Buhurt but fully respect HEMA. I always view buhurt as recreating medieval tournaments while Hema focuses more on practical combat with intent on efficiency and actually using deadly force. Hema also majority of the time is more out of armor combat (not all just most)
Nah there is a lot of respect across fields, Hema does take a lot of practice and skill as does buhurt just different types. Of course there are arrogant jerks on both sides but for the most part its just another sport.
What worries me is that elitists/snobs may look at this totally valid video and just denounce it because it's "not real sword fighting, just barbarians clashing at each other."
The define "real swordfighting." becuase this is Armoured fighting. Where the objective is to knock your opponent to the ground, not to cut or stab them, ect.
Buhurt is about bashing and grappling opponents, so yeah it's not "real swordfighting" primarily because you barely ever see people using swords.
Catching thumbnail
After watching your video on reverse grip i actually grabbed a sword like object i had that had a very long handle and if you place your hand at the front of the handle below the blade and then place one on the pommel you can get something better for thrusting
I would say the reverse grip is blessed used as it was with the rapier. A defensive technique when you don't have a shield.