The Unfortunate Problem With The Office's Ryan Howard
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- The Office's Ryan Howard, played by BJ Novak, is something of an enigma. Starting as the audience POV into the life of Dunder Mifflin Scranton, Ryan Howard had a drastic evolution followed by a devastating downfall. Even though he's billed as a lead member of The Office cast, he never seems to rise to the level of fan favorites, Jim, Dwight or Pam. But what exactly happened to Ryan Howard during his tenure at Dunder Mifflin?
#theoffice #dundermifflin #nerdstalgic
Written by Brian Long
Edited by Nick Murphy
I actually like Ryan character development. It is one of the most stereotypical figures you see in an actual office. Someone young, smart, kinda resentful, that thinks that he can do better than all of the rest because of his background education. Then the downfall, the crisis, then the acceptance and the don't give a f-k attitude. It doesn't need to be funny, it is more tragical than comedic.
Agreed!👍🏾💯
as well i think he represented the millennial mindset for the show
I think BJ Novak, the actor and a writer/producer on the show, understood the Shakespearean tragedy for some is comedy for others and vice versa. He’s one of the strongest characters on the show because of his consistency and the general philosophy towards his character. I thought his character was well done, and really balanced, even if underwhelming at times. But I’d partially chalk that up to him not having much screen time in the Final Cut of the show as opposed to the longer extended version episodes
"Tragical." Man, the education system is a failure.
Another agreement
I think Ryan was simply there to be B.J. Novak's punching bag, and he works really well as that. The meta humor that this writer was deliberately abusing his own character was brilliant, and I wholeheartedly disagree that it didn't work.
Yeah, the fact someone took the time to make this video is kind of silly. Ryan was Ryan - and he didn't need to be anything else or anything more than what I saw on the screen. Not every character needs to be extremely beloved, break boundaries, have insane character development, etc....because many people I have worked with and known have been none of those things anyway. Ryan's character was great...and even memorable.
@@Ben-vt8ne Exactly. Ryan was one of the more realistic characters in the show due to his reactive nature. He was also a contrast to the larger than life goofiness often exhibited by the other characters. I still love Michael Scott's "Don't call it a comeback" line.
Everyone should just read this comment instead of watching the video
Thank god I stopped when he said Ryan was supposed to be a main character, like, waaaat?
Truuu
@@flaviomanzoli9574 Ryan is only a "main" character cuz the credits, nothing else
Andy is more a main character since S4 and he got his main credit until almost S7
Ryan's character development was to show who he truly was as a person. A quiet kid that secretly thinks he's a hot shot and then is given the opportunity to showcase his talents, which is manipulation. That is his relationship with Kelly, the higher-ups at Dunder Mifflin, and the various company ideas that he tried to get co-workers to invest in. As Ryan became more comfortable with the people around him, the real Ryan showed up. Once Ryan made it to the top of the corporate ladder and then falling to the absolute bottom, he knew he had nothing else to lose and just didn't care anymore. He became selfish and conceded because he knew he couldn't recover from all of the wrongs he's done. So basically, his character development was more of an "undevelopment" by the final episode.
I think this is a MUCH more accurate take than the video. Thank you.
Nah it's just because the office is shit and they were writing annoying characters
Dui, you totally could have saved me nine goddamn minutes had I just read your comment first!
I thought they should have made Ryan's character have some kind of career and personal revival at the end. That would make his character's story the most relatable since he experienced some very high highs and very low lows throughout the series. Much more than Jim who never faced any real adversity in his career and for whom everything turned out too perfectly at the end of the series to be relatable to the average person's life/career...
Well said
Season 1 Ryan was actually really funny in my opinion
I think he agrees and this is mostly a commentary on the structure of Ryan as a character.
@DPowered Smith yeah of course
I always saw him as one of the "normal" characters in earlier seasons, all of the bizzare situations wouldn't be as funny without characters like Toby, Oscar or Jim that just stand on the side and set the contrast to the absurd and chaos brought b Michael or Dwight etc.
@DPowered2 Although i liked your first reply your second really was worlds above 😭
@@archiejones8459 classic
I feel the lack of personality IS what drives the drastic personality shifts. He becomes what he believes to be “cool” or most relevant, never really knowing who he is or what he wants. He started off as overqualified and took it to heart, believing he’s better than everyone. It’s why I felt his rise and fall were actually an accurate portrayal of someone who had it too easy in the start and never did well when challenged by adversity. He became a drug addicted narcissist while trying to come off as a smart innovator. I believe that the in season 4 episode 11 “night out” we see the true honest Ryan in his most vulnerable form. His narcissism and delusional behavior is contrasted by the comedown of his high at the end of the episode. He is a sad lonely guy BECAUSE he believes to be better than anyone. No friends and a horrible relationship with women. I can go on about this, but I’m not the one making video essays 😅
Mate, your analysis is totally on point. Great stuff!
Agree 👍
In my opinion Ryan Howard is one of the five worst characters of the series aside from Kelley, Jan, Angela, and Tom Packer. They’re the worst kind of egotistical and psychologically damaged individuals I’ve ever seen in any sitcom. They’re just too full of themselves to the extent that i can never like them whatsoever.
@@timothymorris157 I see you have not watched Always Sunny in Philadelphia then mate :D Every main char there has no redeeming quality whatsoever
@@AtomCat357 That’s exactly right. It never appealed to me so i never had any desire in watching it under any circumstances.
I noticed Ryan and Jim were the audience surrogate characters in the show's beginning. Ryan was the new employee supposedly learning the ropes despite having more knowledge and sense than the manager. Jim had been in the office for a while, was used to the chaos, and could somewhat have fun with it. It's a shame Ryan didn't do much after season 4 & 5 and became a human Brian Griffin.
Human Brain Griffin? huh, what a perfect comparison! never thought of that before, but it’s dead on.
I really hated his character arc. He went from a generally alright dude, he had flaws but since he was fairly young and inexperienced (if still rather intelligent) he still had room to grow. I felt like his overnight promotion from junior sales associated to upper level management and basically being the #2 or #3 person in the company was kind of out of left field. His corruption too was kind of out of nowhere as he tried retarded methods to grow the company and then committed fraud to cover his mistakes. The way he basically just "lost" his degree and became some burnout, basement dwelling scumbag was also kind of abrupt. I've always felt like Intern/Salesman Ryan, Executive Ryan, and ex-con Ryan were more like 3 different characters than 1 character going through an arc and his character really deteriorated as time went on becoming more and more of a irredeemable scumbag
@@jyaps8989 ironically, Ryan's "character progression" was very similar to what happened with Brian in his own show.
Human Brian Griffin is so spot-on.
@@erubin100 pretty much
I never had any issues with Ryan being a part of the series. He added his set of quirks and conflicts, just as every other character did. He’s just as much a part of “The Office” family, as the rest…🤷🏽♂️
This channel lives off these dumb videos.
He just gets more annoying than funny after the first few seasons. Then again, nearly every other character gets more annoying than funny after season 3 imo
Yeah the video keeps saying Ryan has no personality but spends the whole video describing his personality. I think Ryan has a lot of personality compared to the other ensemble cast like Creed, Stanley, Meredith, Phyllis, Toby.
Totally agree!
I like his character development, it feels real to me. Very real. He's just trying to find his place in the world, like a teenager.
I always thought of him as Micheal’s son
I, for one, love how he changed personality pretty much every season. It works with the type of person he is.
Exactly. The fact he was flawed and had no direction (or even true self-confidence) WAS his character.
i honestly feel that ryan has BPD and NPD and it really makes his sense of self and his interactions with others make a lot of sense when u think of it that way.
Yes! A human being! ❤🎉
I think Ryan wasn't meant to have a good character arch, not everyone in the world is ultimately a good person. I didn't like him as a character, but I think having him juxtaposed to the other characters made the other characters a bit more lovable because we'd subconsciously compare all the characters between each other.
There are some things you need to understand about Ryan:
Ryan started the fire.
Ryan never properly processed 9/11.
Ryan has never made a sale.
Ryan never went to Thailand.
Ryan is such a perfectionist, he would rather not do a job than do a crappy version.
Ryan finally mastered commitment.
I wish they would of focused more on the interactions with Toby and Michael. They had amazing chemistry together and it’s just hilarious how bad Michael hates him😂
I'm sure they wanted to take advantage of it, the only issue is that the actor who plays Tobey is a writer for the show. So lot more attention went on to more writing than screentime.
@@VoiceNerd really? I never knew he was a writer lol
@@rickyrichreacts9667 Kelly, Ryan, Toby, and probably more all worked on the show beyond acting.
@@rickyrichreacts9667 I heard he didn't even want to act but he was perfect for the role.
@@Woozlewuzzleable Maybe that added to it, having this vibe of "I'd rather be on a beach in Costa Rica" and all.
BJ Novak “Ryan” & Paul Lieberstein“Toby” we’re two of the primary writers that gave us this great show!
Also Mindy Kaling was a writer too.
@@JesusSavesSinners Yes she was! Her and BJ both were also Executive Producers. 👍 BJ was also a Producer on the Mindy Project.
Yeah it was kinda funny when he’d keep being like “the writers didn’t know what to do with him” and I kept going but he IS the writers!
@@averyeml Right?!😂
@@averyeml He also got a lot of work on other projects during that time so he would have to leave the show from time to time. I think that's why his arc changed so much.
i actually liked ryan a lot. just a character u never wanna root for causing problems, and his dynamic with pam was always fun since i think he brought out her snarky side
I f hate him
I loved Ryan's corporate foray because around that time my team was dealing with a incompetent young executive who actually looked a bit like Ryan.
As far as you know it could have been.
Was he also addicted to coke?
@@jackbobb2711 I never went clubbing with him so I'm not sure, but it would have explained a lot.
i viewed him as a warning since i ended up getting a career path a bit like Ryan's. I basically went straight from an entry level job to middle management despite being young mainly thanks to a rare license not many people can get (test is a bitch) and because I'm too lazy to be deceitful so my boss started trusting me with more and more stuff until i was basically his number 2. I was worried about being viewed as a spoiled brat who's too full of himself to do his job well. There were literally times where I'd ask myself "what would Ryan do?" and try not to do that.
@@jackbobb2711 he was a Pepsi guy
I have to disagree. I think Ryans character development progressed pretty naturally. He always had that "im better than you" attitude, which transcribes well into the story lines he's given in later seasons. The constant rise and fall of Ryan perfectly captured the type of antics one would engage in with Ryans huge ego. At the beginning I believe the lack of personailty is from the refusal to put himself at the same level as everyone else in Dunder Mifflin, not necesarilly because they weren't sure what to do with him. The first season and final seasons of the office were both below average and had a lot of other and more important issues that Ryan's charcter. His charcter just suffered by consequence to these low rated seasons.
Agreed. In the episode where he started the fire he literally tells the cameras that he didn't want to become a "guy" there
Ryan is a character that I was fine with at first, he was basically the outsider to the madness and status quo of the Scranton office. In a lot of ways he was the audience's stand-in. In fact it was through Ryan that we got to peel back the layers of some of the characters, Michael in particular.
But as the show progressed he became his own character. Someone who saw people stuck in a boring desk job , beholden to someone as unqualified as Michael, and wanted to avoid that fate at any cost. Hence him going over Michael's head for the promotion.
After that his character unraveled quickly.
The main flaw that, ironically, Michael himself pointed was that while he was educated and had great ideas, he had very little of the experience and skill neccesary to actually put them into practice.
This began to show itself as his website for Dunder Mifflin crashed and burned while he spent his days getting high and going to parties and eventually trying to commit fraud to make his website seem more succesfull than it actually is.
After that it was just a downward slope of Ryan being lazy, selfish and just generally a horrible person incapable of taking any accountability for his actions
He's a hateable character, but not a bad one tbh. Just a shame more wasn't done with him since, yeah, having one of the lead writers for the show abuse the hell out of his own character IS funny, especially with how absurd it gets. But you can only pull that card so many times before it gets repetitive.
Ryan was always a jerk. He felt the job was beneath him from the start. The Office was a very funny show because these rude selfish characters were realistic in their rudeness. Pam was the most rude self absorbed character on the show. She played Jim like a fiddle 🎻. Jim was a dope who I could not feel sorry for past the 1st season. He broke up with women on the show in brutal ways. The Office did not have likeable characters. They had some characters who were not completely awful people like Darryl and Erin.
i agree
@@JesusSavesSinners
The part with Ryan is kinda true. He basically saw the job as a temporary thing, but when he realised how many people there thought the same thing when they first started he panicked and promised how that wouldn't be his future
But the part about Pam and Jim, I honestly don't where you pulled that out of. Pam wasn't self absorbed in the slightest, she simply realised that she spent years in a relationship she wasn't actually happy in out of comfort and that everything, including her dreams to be an artist suffered and got postponed because of it. And she didn't play Jim at all, the affection was there bu lt she didn't pursue a proper relationship until well after she ended things with Roy
Most of Jim's breakups were either mutual or weren't even initiated by him
I felt much the same way, i actually liked Ryan the unsure of himself intern who made understandable mistakes, ran into problems we can all relate too like an overly familiar boss and crazy coworkers, and was trying to figure out what he wanted to do with life and what kind of person he was going to become since he was basically stuck inbetween high school and college when the series started.
That said I really hated his character arc starting around the time he became an executive. He went from a generally alright dude, he had flaws but since he was fairly young and inexperienced (if still rather intelligent) he still had room to grow. I felt like his overnight promotion from junior sales associated to upper level management and basically being the #2 or #3 person in the company was kind of out of left field. His corruption too was kind of out of nowhere as he tried retarded methods to grow the company and then committed fraud to cover his mistakes. The way he basically just "lost" his degree and became some burnout, basement dwelling scumbag was also kind of abrupt. I've always felt like Intern/Salesman Ryan, Executive Ryan, and ex-con Ryan were more like 3 different characters than 1 character going through an arc and his character really deteriorated as time went on becoming more and more of a irredeemable scumbag
The straight man is the term you're looking for.
There is so much more wrong with the later seasons than Ryan lol.
I literally can’t finish the series after at least three watch throughs.. I am happier to just pretend season 7 is the final season.
@@wazzlopiok240 There arent many shows like that. It reminds me a lot of Scrubs in that regard: amazing one of a kind series that will live in the public consciousness for decades to come, something that had widespread appeal for its dramatic depth and humor, and a series that they gave a pretty satisfying ending only to resurrect it for one last season only to see it come back as a twisted parody of what it once was like the man who became Frankenstein's monster or like how respectable Doctor Jackal became the psychopathic Mister Hyde.
@@arthas640 totally agree. I have the same approach to scrubs! How I met your mother was another series which I really had to force myself through cringe to finish. Also Community, Arrested Development, Big bang have some great early seasons before becoming forced and unfunny..
A lot goes wrong after Michael leaves, and it’s not nearly as good. That being said, the later seasons are still amazing. Gabe is the best!
I actually still enjoyed the last two seasons. Not as good as the prior seasons and Michael’s absence is strongly felt but I still got great laughs out of them. The only thing I truly hated was Andy’s character assassination.
Ryan and Jim were actually pretty similar at the beginning, both smart but underachieving, the only difference was that Jim found love at the office while Ryan chose the rat race.
Ryan’s stint as Michael’s boss, and even his floundering afterwards, are some of the funniest moments of the show, I’m even fine with how he left the show. I just wish they hadn’t brought him back for the finale, or at least done something different with his character. Him and Kelly running off together is believable, but the whole baby thing was unnecessary.
Yeah… it’s realllllly hard to “offend” me, but the baby thing even had ME like 😬
I see it as a nod to the first season, when you were never quite sure whether to laugh or cringe hard.
This is a small group of people’s opinion. Ryan’s character arch is amazing. I’ve known someone just like him at every phase of his personality. And I’ve known people who have changed just as drastically as he did through his 20’s.
He still ended up better than Andy who went on boat because he was shooting a movie and then came back and lost the girl to a new guy who no one cared for
The truth is there were 4 writers of the office that also were actors in it:
Mose, Toby, Kelly and Ryan (played by Bj Novak). From the beginning they were trying to make Ryan have an important role in The Office. But like the video explained he never had a real personality (I believe he got overshadowed by Jim). So in normal circumstances Ryan would be scrapped off the show. But because he is one of the writers and loves acting they kept him in the show even though most people didn't like his character. The same can be said for Kelly, who I always found really annoying and pointless.
Toby and mose were great characters imo
Episodes written by BJ Novak are those in which he is just in the background and has zero impact. The plan for Ryan was to make him a villain of sorts, it was never to make him as important as the other main 4. He was there to enhance the stories of the other main 4
Annoying? Yes. Pointless? No.
It's not as if they made her a *big* character. She stayed in the background an appropriate amount.
I like Kelly and Ryan. Kelly especially has some of the funniest lines.
i found her really grating towards the end. She started out pretty interesting since she was a pretty realistic character but as time went on she just got to be more and more irritating while getting less and less relatable and acted less and less like a real person. Some other commenters have made comparisons to Family Guy and the Office and I agree with that when it comes to Kelly: she became cartoonishly stupid and crazy which kind of killed her appeal
One things for sure - Ryan started the fire 🔥
Most everyone over the age of 30 knows a ryan. Young, smart but not wise, and trying to find themselves. Everything about him seems fitting and pretty spot on.
I don’t know a person like that.
Oh God, that means I’m the person like that.
The evolution of Ryan Howard is fascinating, especially with where he ends up with the strawberry...
RYAN STARTED THE FIRE
😂😂😂
Underrated comment 😂
His arc could also be a metaphor for how the millenail generation has tried on all sorts of different "flavor of the month" hats while lacking a strong general identity of their own, due to the increasingly rapid changes in their world as the generation has grown.
I've been searching for years for a way to sum up this generation and you hit the nail on the head.
🎯
Could be
the chaos and tragedy of his character arch is one of the funniest things about the show. watching his and jen's lives fall apart, from being the most seemingly put together characters at first was amazing and I wouldn't change a thing about either
Jen?
I absolutely hated Ryan.
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Im sorry.... but Ryan is on my top 3 of the characters that made me laugh a lot in the series. His later personality of "I don't care" made him in my opinion, funnier than he was before.
It would be on my top 5 as well. Probably behind Jan, David Wallace, Michael and Meredith.
The office in the closet was classic! "oh no Stanley, you'll live forever"
Strange video. Ryan is a fantastic character. His comedic moments are a bit more subtle then the in your face laughs from the likes of Michael & Dwight. But they are there and they’re very funny. He’s a key part to what makes the the US office so good & BJ Novak’s’ performance is perfectly understated
Strange vid, yes. But it's meant to be provocative to get people to watch it. It's all about the clicks.
I still believe that Ryan is a comedic character not a tragic one. He even has an open ending.
I love him. I love his character too. I feel like Michael and everyone else in the office always sort of failed him. When he was actually being given an actual chance by Michael at his paper company he was normal again. Then as soon as Pam got the salesman job, he fell again. A temp is supposed to be temporary and it was forever. I think that’s what drove him crazy.
I honestly always thought Ryan was a pretty decent addition to the show. I don’t feel about him the way I do about Andy at the end, as he seems like a character you really love to hate. And honestly, the fact that you don’t see his corporate persona coming at all when the show begins really makes the fact that his happens so much funnier. You even see additional moments later in the show when he gets hired back by Michael where he channels his deadpan sarcastic self, such as when he asks Michael if he grew his goatee after helping him move back in. He’s not anywhere as reprehensible as characters like Angela, Cathy, and Charles Minor. And I always found him way more tolerable than Kelly.
The funny part is the actor is one of the writters... So he purposely sabatoged his role, because he wanted to play different version of Ryan.
When you have that in mind, things make more sense.
Ryan deserved some kind of redemption instead of a reduction to hipster goblin
Agreed - I think the hipster transformation is when the writing really went off the rails for him
I did find Ryan to be pretty realistic though - exaggerated yes, but I feel like I have seen people have similar personality shifts, especially when they did not really have a strong personality to begin with.
Of all the problems with the later seasons of The Office, Ryan wasn’t one of them.
I don't think it's so much that the writers didn't know who Ryan was, so much as Ryan didn't know who Ryan was. I have known people like this. Everything about them changes over time. They are in a state of constant reinvention without any self awareness. If that was the goal, then he may be the most brilliantly written character since Frank Burns.
Ryan is the embodiment of chaotic neutral and I love it
I'd hardly call him neutral.
Whoa, did you see that term in a meme?
I always found it a little bizarre to see B.J. Novak's name listed alongside Carrell, Fisher, Krasinski and Wilson in the opening credits, or to see him posed with those four the DVD covers, etc., when his character was not on the same level as any of them. Ryan felt more like a supporting character than one the main cast and it seemed pretty obvious that the only reason he was featured so prominently was because Novak was an executive producer on the show.
Ryan is the character that wants to be like don Draper and lives his life in parody of it thinking he’s a gift to the company. He’s a real type of person and serves as a hugely important support to Michael Scott and illustrating his need to be liked and loved by anyone even a toxic person. They were so unsure if they would be canceled and if people would even get behind Michael and bj is a fantastic writer and breaks some of the constant one liners to a more somber story that we all know.
While rewatching “The Office” once again, I decided for myself that Ryan’s story is how this office can break and change a normal guy to someone we see at the end. And it's tragic.
I think the fundamental issue with his character is that he blatantly wouldn’t be so major if the actor himself wasn’t so involved in the showrunning.
This video officially made me love Ryan's character even more❤️😂
Who can love Ryan???? Only a person with no good taste
Same 😄
In the British Office, the temp character is gone by the second season/series. He is the tall blonde guy going in for the handshake at 1:41
He was based on the Ricky Howard character in the original but they went in a very different direction - he's more of a know it all kid who's too good for the everyone (in his own mind), while the original was clever, quietly confident, and well liked.
He was indeed wasted in the early days of the show, he really didn't do much, but he found his feet in the end.
The cartoonish nature of the US version suited the American cast better. The characters became familiar and fun, with the audience being able to root for any of them. On the original every character is flawed and quite unlikable in some way, that wouldn't have worked in a long running show like the US version.
I actually think they did a great job creating the character Ryan. Ryan seems lost and confusing sometimes is not because the writers don't know what to do with him. It’s the opposite. It's exactly how the writers wanted to present. Well because we could see how Ryan did all this to himself and he is not who he thinks he is. It made me feel both tragic and funny. At least to me, Ryan is a very realistic character and one of my favorite characters in the show.
I couldn't say it better than you do. The writers wanted to make him look lost.
I'm sure BJ Novak had something to do with his character's story arc. He was a very willing participant with how they ran with it.
I think that Ryan’s character was absolutely imperative to the show, but his character was not good on its own-rather the genius of his character really is fulfilled in his reactions with the main characters that make up the larger part of the show. He makes the other characters more interesting as we get to see how they react to his crazy antics. The main characters would have been a lot less interesting without them being forced to interact with Ryan and deal with him on a constant basis. That's why he was integral from the beginning--not because of himself but because of the value he brought to the main characters.
As BJ Novac was one of the main writers, I wonder if he was just trying to force himself to getting more screen time
It always felt to me as though Ryan was there for B.J Novak more than for everybody else.
Ryan was the one character that I wasn’t sure what exactly he did but I never hated him or anything
Ryan was my favorite character when I started watching the show because I had a friend that was a carbon copy of him when I started my career as a software engineer. The stuff he did all the way to becoming part of senior leadership, made the show real and relatable to me.
"I think I never really processed 9/11." Best Ryan Howard line.
Good analysis. Why isn’t it an option that he’s supposed to be neurotic and unpredictable?
Love your videos dude. Awesome to see creators from the 941
What are you doing here
The trick to watching The Office is to pretend it's only 7 seasons long, and skip the 8th and 9th.
His transformation wasn't out of nowhere. It shows how someone completely transforms if given just a little bit of power plus he went to new york city. Ryan's development is very common. Hand someone a big promotion and a lot of money and see who they really are.
Fun fact: BJ Novak and John Krasinski are exactly the same age, and they went to high school together.
I love the transition, it was showing how the office changed the man.
BJ was a writter for the show. I think he and the other writers realized his character was sort of expendable and decided to have fun with him.
BJ was hired as a writer. They needed to fill extra character slots so he decided to take an on screen role. BJ says that in an interview talking about Ryan
I loved Ryan’s character because he was so real. Sometimes you try so hard to assert yourself you just give up in the end
the funny thing is that Ryan himself is one of the writers
I disagree with this video. I do not think the series went off the rails. It was still a very funny quirky show. They had a lot of talented actors in the final 2 seasons. Ryan was always a horrible self centered person.
The goal of the show was to be very funny and unpredictable.
The show was full of weird characters people who you would never want to be friends with. Andy, Darryl and Erin were the most normal people on the show who would be fun to know.
It is so inadvertently funny of the narrator to say, "The writers did not know what to do with him"; considering Ryan, BJ Novak, was the primary writer of the show. Along with Toby and Kelly, which can be said about their character arcs too xD.
Ryan and Pam's hatred for each other is a very funny character trait, in line with what the other secondary characters have. His character's messy but evolved with the upsizing of the series.
I really liked Ryan's arc through the first 5 seasons. His quick rise into corporate and then almost immediate downfall was great. I think if they had gone in the direction of his redemption and relationship with Michael (the only person to still believe in him) we could have gotten more enjoyable character. I get the idea was he became a burnout who continuously made bad decision after bad decision, but were we really supposed to believe he would stick around as a temp the next few years? They should have given him some sort of growth or an arc to at least being a real employee again.
Rayan is a satire of new generations, that's why they put so much effort in showing his issues with commitment and not knowing what to do next and there for changing paths and personalities. you can also see this was the aim of the character in episodes like trivia night where he cannot be without his phone to a ridiculous point and many more during the series
The problem is that BJ Novak was also a writer, and was probably writing some of his characters line.
Ryan is a character a writer would write for himself to play. “He’s a cool everyman… the boss loves him, there is this chick that is obsessed with him… he’s cool, he’s funny… he ends up being the bosses boss… oh and I will be the actor to play him. No his character is necessary”.
Wow I heard it in his voice 😂😂😂
Louis CK said that about Matt Damon's character in Good Will Hunting
I dont think there was any problem with Ryan. He played his part really good in some scenes.
I feel like him changing was necessary because we already have a straight man and audience surrogate in Jim's character. Imagine having 2 normal guys in a sitcom, one character would be boring and will fade from the show.
Their initial intention early on was to make him the anti-Jim. A normal and all around 'cool guy', but one who relates negitively to the antics of his co-workers rather than positively like Jim does. Honestly though, there was just never any need for that sort of character.
Initially you are thinking
"Ryan is the only guy who is normal, i feel bad for him"
And then
"Ryan is going crazy"
And finally
"Ryan is a psycho"
Honestly I don't see any issue there or need for deep contemplation. Ryan was a secondary character in the show, so it was clear they were just having fun with his character. Like putting him in different situations that would be funny that's all there is to it
I think if they ever did a one-shot reunion, Ryan should now be the "Michael Scott" of wherever he works-probably at Jim's company, with Jim being the "David Wallace" character.
Ultimately Ryan was a better character when he became a joke rather than trying to force relateability with him.
Yeah I barely remember anything Ryan did before season 4 besides the running joke of Michael possibly being in love with him and that he was a #$@* salesman.
They clearly wanted Ryan to be a major character during the show's former years - right up there with Michael, Jim, Pam, and Dwight. This is especially evident considering he was in all the box art and promotional images with the aforementioned characters through the first several seasons.
The weird part is that he still got very little screen time and dedicated plot lines when compared to the others
At least we had Stanley to put that creep in his place. XD
Lets face it. The only reason BJ Novak was included in the opening credits was because he was a producer and probably forced his casting, forcing the writers to make a character for him. He made me laugh twice in the shows entire run and was easily the worst character
Ryan being a pointless character was what made it funny.
Plus, Ryan started the fire.
Can you do a video for Nellie next? Ryan worked with the show and most of his iterations were great.
If you wanna talk about an obnoxious character with too much screentime that should have never been put on screen, let's talk about Nelly. What a trash and unfunny character she was.
@@OldDemonTooth “But Doctor Who!” Terrible character that we only feel bad about because they tanked Andy.
I like the character. Not everyone has to have a goal and an arc. Life can be chaotic. Ryan is one of many who got eaten up by the corporate world - and to-be eaten up by a company like Dunder Mifflin is pretty funny
Not funny at all, repulsive
It's funny that you say he lost most of his business acumen. He never had business acumen. Michael Scott even points out in Business School that Ryan had never made a sale.
At first he was the most relatable even more than Jim and Pam.
So, the complaint is that Ryan isn't archetype enough? That's pretty weak sauce.
I do think he went through the same aimlessness and Flanderization that every character did in the late middle and endgame. But his character does track to me, someone who was good at school and told was smart constantly, leading to a painfully inflated ego that didn’t know what to do with difficulty or more nuanced situations. I don’t think he’s perfect, he is a mess and one of the weaker characters and does become a bit of a waffling freak. But I don’t think he’s the total mess this video makes him to be.
I feel like the thing this video is neglecting to mention is that BJ Novak was a writer on the show, just like Mindy (Kelly) and several other characters. He had a hand in making his character, so I imagine he had a direction to take it, whether we like it or not.
Ryan was a caricature of a millennial in the work place, and as an elder millennial, I am 100% here for it.
To be honest, when I first watched the office, this wasn't where I thought Ryan's character would end up. I was expecting that at some point in the series one of two things would happen, he'd become a full blown salesman or he'd leave. I imagined him leaving since, ya know, he was a temp. In terms of HOW he'd leave, I thought he'd get an offer to work at a better job and he'd take it. Ryan would try to hide it from Micheal since he'd kinda obsessed with him but eventually he'd find out on Ryan's last day. He'd frantically try to prevent Ryan from leaving but they'd have a heart to heart in the end. And Ryan would leave to greater pastures.
(Yes I know he technically becomes a salesman later in the series but that wasn't how I thought he'd end up in that position).
One of the most underrated characters of all time.
I don't really agree with this, I think it isn't that deep. I think that the early seasons, Ryan was "one of us", breaking the 4th wall making eye contact with the camera seeing the absurdity of the office around him. He just wanted to get the heck out of there and move up in his life and career, studying and applying for a higher position. When he launched nearly to the top of the company, he was invigorated for the very first time - no longer fetching michael his sandwhiches. It turns out though that in this position he cut corners and valued growth and making a name for himself more than filling Jan's shoes. It went to his head, he lost sight of himself, especially losing this validation when he is caught and fired.
Every season after season 3, in the context of him losing sight of himself, he ironically becomes a part of the noise and absurdity. His role that he does different roles - every single season they reinvented his character. The different era's you described simply followed which season you were watching. The beginning of each he had completely shifted from the last. It was impressive seeing BJ pull this off convincingly, especially still as the same character Ryan. It seemed pretty intentional this phenomenon - that his look and personality was new and even more absurd each season. From a blond guy who doesn't care, to Thailand, to WHOOF!
This is so true. Ryan was essentially five separate almost unconnected characters played by the same actor.
While I agree that the writers didn't know who Ryan is in season one (like it happens with many if not most shows), in season two and onwards he was his own (side) character who added to the show as much as the rest.
I do wish we got more of "Ryan vs Pam" because I always loved how she was not afraid to call him out on his bs.
Am I trippin or did the nerdstalogic voice change from earlier videos??
You are trippin
Thank you !
He starts off as look-at-the-camera, but that's Jim.
Then he's embarrassing boss, but that's Michael.
Then he's second banana, but that's Dwight.
Then he's a weirdo, but that's everyone else.
You could convince somebody that this character is a project that was green-screened and deep-faked into an old sitcom.
For me, Ryan progressively becomes more and more cartoon-y as the show itself becomes more and more cartoon-y. Pretty much like every other character on the show
The biggest problem with Ryan was that, he started the fire...
Almost since the beginning I saw Ryan as a guy that was embarrassed by his failures and the fact that he is no better than the people of the office, and was trying too hard to be cool around some normal people. So maybe because of this mindset I saw the constant changes in character laughable.
I think if you observe what happens to the character was that he was well educated enough to be corporate but so unskilled at the basics of sales to be his own comedic character at their office he has a stressful crisis all the time. There's always that one kid that's like him in an office like that and it's cool to see. He may not have a specific gig in the comedy part of the show but he sets up most of the characters like kelly, michael, stanley, and pam for some of the most memorable toxic and funny moments in the office. I do agree however that putting his name in the intro made me think he was more prominent in the series as our normal guy stand in but if it was intended to make us think that and catch us off guard of his devolving then I guess it's fair.
I think BJ novak was bored of playing it straight while everyone goofed around and since he was a writer, he wrote some out of character stories for his character