Casting a piston for a 1910 Brush car. Part 3b Casting, breakout, and discussion
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Sand casting an aluminium piston for a 1910 Brush car. Part. 3b Pouring the sand mould. This final part of the video series also includes a "post casting" discussion centred on the gating system used. In addition it addresses the oft asked question of "why not just CNC machine the piston from billet".
I recommend watching parts 1, 2, and 3a first. - Наука та технологія
It's an honor to watch a skilked craftsman at work.
Isn't it? these videos are just gold.
Amazing!
Yep. Doesn't matter what they're doing, a master of their trade is always a pleasure to watch.
KEEP AT IT OLD FELLA. I AM SURE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE REAP THE BENEFITS OF YOUR TUTORIALS AND HOPEFULLY A FEW OF THE YOUNGER GENERATION.AS WELL. KEEP THE VIDS COMING. LUV EM
anthony montgomery : Well said! I've had and interest in molding since Industrial Science class in Junior High School but we did the same thing as the other sights. Here you get to see a craftsman applying his art to make useful items not coins and bricks. Kudos!
I have spent nearly 20 years in a foundry working with steel and aluminium casting for the aircraft industry
It has been an absolute pleasure watching you work. 👍
Stephen Thank you, coming from a fellow foundryman your comment means a great deal.. Martin
FROM AN OLD TRADIE. ITS GOOD TO WATCH A SKILLFUL BLOKE WHO HAS A HEAP OF PRIDE IN HIS WORK. THINGS ARE A LOT DIFFERENT TODAY
Anthony, Sadly, yes... Martin
As a retired Navy Molder, I say,"Hear, Hear!" to your last words!
sand, I have a certain feeling that just about every foundryman would 😊, but its good to "hear" it said...Martin..
Thank you so much for this!
I have purchased books and read them but watching you really helped me understand better. I understand the concept of the core boxes and everything but it was really hard to envision it until I watched you do this.
Kevin, I wonder which books. Many out there just regurgitate the same old - and largely incorrect - 6000 year old info. I have yet to see a good book on all aspects of casting and I have seen a few. For the technical side the work of John Campbell can not be beaten but he does not cover the nitty gritty of things like mould making and many books that do make an absolute pigs rear of this vital aspect - nobody covers it well - not well enough anyway..... Martin
Oh, what a lovely thing to find after a day in the shop... the final episode of this particular series!
Once again, my sincere thanks for your willingness to share your knowledge.
This series had me on the edge of my seat and reading through the comments at the end of each one was excruciating mostly because I wanted to get to the next video. Especially painful was when someone would say just CNC it from a billet. I would think to myself how would they machine under the wrist pin bosses. There is no way they could produce an end product as perfect as you have done on a CNC machine. Again, Thank you so much for all you do and especially that discussion at the end.
Steven, Yep CNC mills are great ( I have one) they can turn large pieces of good aluminum into a huge pile of useless swarf in record time. The comments re "just CNC it" were completely predictable for such machines can indeed do wonders, but I was asked to cast these pistons so I did. Yes, that particular piston would have been very difficult to produce on a CNC without undesirable design mods. I am glad that you enjoyed it... Martin
I think your 2 cents worth is valued much higher. You take casting to another level. I cast a motorcycle engine case.machined it and built a running engine, but your casting skills make me feel like a neanderthal.
Jionathan, Well done - a running engine. That is quite an achievement. I have been trying to achieve that (Stirling engines) but never quiet seem to have found the time. Kudos to you my friend... Martin
Look here both my favorite content makers in one post. Thank you both for the hard work you put into your videos
Martin I watched Johnathon do that from start to finish it was fascinating to watch like you Johnathon has so much experience you always come away having learnt something new
Tony from Western Australia
I have a Bridgeport 2 axis CNC, but use it as a manual mill. I visited a machine shop while buying a Lathe and they had about 20 CNC machines. After walking and talking to the operators, I realized none were machinists, just machine operators, (change parts, push buttons). I have been offered by two friends to teach me to program mine, I refuse. I am currently building a motorcycle using the engine I built. Look forward to more casting videos.
My favorite 2 UA-camrs
Many of your types of people are being lost in to a black hole of lost knowledge not being past down due to Production runs and profitability, This is now becoming a craft where to learn it you would need to want to produce something on a hobby scale size. Safety regulations and costs of gas made these production methods move to less developed countries where no regulations and inferrior quality control were acceptable. Much love for sharing your knowledge.
chris, There is/was another YTer called "pooroldchap" he said that when an old person dies its like library burning down and that he was, via his channel, just trying to save a few books. I figure that maybe, just maybe I can save at least a few pages that someone day will find useful if so I will be well pleased. You are not wrong about things moving offshore - our manufacturing industry is just about dead... Martin
Martin - at the risk of sounding repetitive, you are the absolute boss. Thanks for yet another fascinating insight into your work and your world. Fire and metal will never cease to fascinate and enthrall. Best wishes, Andy.
I did some casting many (50) years ago, (fishing lures), and found the job required a certain level of craftsmanship and finesse. You are the master of both. I have subscribed, and have been binge watching your videos instead of working on overdue projects, but it was worth all the time spent watching. I loved your discussion regarding how casting can often be the better alternative.
j jock, "50 years ago" - You must be almost as old as I am😊 ! You are right, like all things a level of skill and knowledge too is required to get a good result with casting. Sadly many on YT seem to lack both! 😰 😱. Thank you for watching and for the subscription but get back to those projects before your better half begins to object to things not done. I believe that a careful appraisal of how to make something is important, sometimes casting is the best/cheapest way and sometimes machining from solid is. We should not allow ourselves to get locked into just the one method. But I do see a problem that these days the power of a modern CNC mill is sometimes used at great expense of material when a casting would have been way better..... Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 Thanks for the reply. I am 79, and am used to negotiating the perilous pathway of a long term relationship. I ran some errands for her, and made a bunch of brownie points.
I am just a hobbiest now, but I do have welders, a lathe, milling machine, and have stayed active at making and repairing all manner of equipment.
I have remained interested in casting, and watching your videos has re-kindled my interest.
Bob
Bob, Well you have 2 years on me for I am but 77. I would love to be as active as you are but balance issues and a very painful back on standing make it so difficult to do anything that I am getting weaker by the day, not wheelchair or bed bound - yet - but its still horrid. I have so many things that I wish want need to do - sigh! 😰... Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 Martin, I believe a person has to develop the attitude that they are too stubborn to die. That, of course, is assuming that a person has something to live for as you obviously do.
I have had a blood cancer for 34 years, and was given a year to live when I was diagnosed in 1988. I have been down that road you are relating, and by 2000, I was infirm, and desperately in need of a bone marrow transplant. In the 90s, my ability to use the internet, enabled me to find that there was a drug that was being used experimentally (interferon), with an approximate 30% success rate. I was able to convince my specialist, (by stating that there was nothing left to lose), to put on interferon, and the miracle happened. The side effects of the interferon were onerous, but the drug controlled the fibrosis in the marrow, and healthy cell production started again. There have been other debilitating health issues, but here I am again, desperately attempting to catch up on projects that were sidelined and enjoying every day. No matter how difficult it was, I just never gave up.
I hope you can find a solution for your balance issues. I'm cheering for you.
Bob
Bob, Inspirational! I will reply via email..... Martin
This series was in my recommended video list, so I just binge-watched the whole thing.
Your castings are second to none. That 4 barrel throttle body is absolutely gorgeous.
Many years ago, I worked at a major hydraulic cylinder manufacturer.
I ran a CNC turning center, that made end caps for hydraulic cylinders.
The caps were made from billets of steel and the amount of swarf was massive.
I spent a LOT of time raking the swarf out of the machine, because it built up so fast.
I'll never forget the cutting fluid. It was green. Just like Surf Green paint on an electric guitar.
You are dead on the money about using the right methods for the product, to reduce waste.
Sometimes it's CNC machining from billet. Sometimes its making a weldment.
Sometimes it's forging and machining. Sometimes it's MIM. Sometimes it's casting and machining. There is no one size fits all solution to manufacturing.
I wouldn't even consider putting the time and money into CNC machining pistons from billet.
The sheer volume of swarf would give me an aching feeling in the pit of my wallet.
I'd like nothing more than to move to Australia and learn from you. You are a true master.
Glad to see you have Steve Chastain's book. It's a great resource.
This 4 part series has been an absolute pleasure to watch. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
fortj3, Yes, Steve Chastain's book was a help, it certainly put us on the right direction and we then sort of modernised the gating in line with latest thinking i.e. we took the metal down to the bottom of the mould with the sprue rather than relying partly on the sprue and partly on the feeders as Chastain did. We used a ceramic foam filter rather than the fiberglass mesh that Chastain shows for although the mesh is quite good I felt the ceramic foam was better. Also we made a point of using a tapered sprue (even if a bit too big!) and a proper pouring basin. And then of course we used the chill to get the soundest possible metal at least in the piston crown. I am glad that you enjoyed the series.
At least with steel swarf the reclaim process is rather successful, its way more problematic with aluminium swarf as you can not recover the oxide that inevitably completely covers each piece of swarf with aluminium but you can with steel.
Australia is only a plane ride away ..😏.. Martin
Absolutely worth the time. I watched every second of this video. I plan on casting and mechining some 6 inch dia. aluminium pistons.
Mark, I am glad that you found it worth the time and I hope it helps with your future endeavours - 6 inch - that's on big mother of a piston, good luck and lets us know how it goes... Martin
I too was one of the people who thought , why not out of billet. Thanks for explaining it to us. Thank you also for sharing your videos and your knowledge. Cheers from the USA.
Rich, The "why not billet" debate is just my opinion of course and others may well disagree. My comment there will be "I have made one lets see them do it too their way" Cheers back at you from the Great Southern Land... Martin
This is the MOST enjoyable video series that I have ever watched on UA-cam. Thank you so much for taking the time to put this series together. It is a reminder to me of the many skills of yesteryear's craftsmen and in particular the guild craftsmen with whom I had the pleasure of working as an apprentice and journeyman. Bravo!
Paul, Thank you for your wonderful comment. Its the sought of think that makes the effort worthwhile... Martin
Outstanding.
A pleasant knock against the "easier is always better" mindset that seems so prevalent, and leads to so many compromises. Wisdom and insight, knowledge, skill and craftsmanship.
You know, you make so many great points, it is hard to single any one out. Suffice to say the issue of using the best technology for any given task is the result of knowing and intelligently choosing to get the best result. I am reminded of the old observation that when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. This was a master class beautifully explained, and appreciated by those of us keen to learn from the masters.
John, Thank you for your comment. There is too the additional point that I was asked to make this part by casting and working on the principle that the customer is always right (even when he is wrong 😏) that exactly what I did… Martin
I never clicked so fast to see this final part but then again I always enjoy your videos
"Aww Sugar!" Uncle Martin you are a gentleman through and through. Thank you for allowing us in your shop to look over your shoulder...God Bless.
Rich, you might be a relative my last name is West (are you wealthy or is the "rich" not descriptive? 😏) Its not always that "sweet" but that's the advantage of editing … Martin
Just a name, but I do gauge wealth on knowledge, so yes wealthy. "Uncle" is a title of respect I've given to many of my male mentors. Who else is going to tell you straight without care for your "feelings"... ;)
Thinking out loud...How do you determine what grade of aluminum that you have, you know scrap aluminum. I've got extruded 6061-T6, castings and soft electrical grade AL. All told maybe 300 Lbs. Maybe a future video...I'd like your thoughts either way. What pitfalls, if any, when recycling AL for castings. Again, thank you for the videos and sharing your wealth of knowledge.
Never really watch the process of piston making fascinating to watch, buggered a few pistons and rings over the years, but never thought how they were made, thank you for educating me a little further.
Haydn, "buggered a few over the years" - Yep, been there done that 😏… Martin
Hey we dont just push a big green button... I have exactly 88 buttons to press on my mill! Really appreciate you sharing this with the world. Your knowledge is priceless.
Jarrod. Yep, I have about 88 on mine too (some white some black no, no that's the piana) I am intimately aquatinted with everyone of them as my mill does not use G code so I have to hand write and then hand type in every line, every digit of code. No post processor available. And then just for a perverse laugh the big green button on my mill is the emergency stop! Its a Dyna 4400M... Martin
I never thought of the swath being not as refined as the original material!
you have a very good talent of seeing what the mold has to be made like and then manufacturing the piece you're trying to make!
Mr. T. Sadly, every time aluminium scrap is recycled the end product is more contaminated. Swarf (chips) is particularly bad because it has lots of surface area and thus lots of oxide to try and get rid of. The aluminium contained in this oxide is lost. Also swarf is invariably mixed alloys and worse still is often contaminated with small amounts of whatever else the swarf producing machine has machined eg. brass steel etc. Aluminium has a sort of life cycle starting out with nice new aluminium at the electrolytic extraction plant from here each trip through a recycle results in aluminium every more contaminated, mainly with iron but also silicon, copper, and a host of other tramp elements. Eventually the aluminium is fit only for pressure diecasting alloys. These are the bottom of the heap and are used largely by the automotive industry but once this "sink" for junk aluminium is filled up we will either have to throw the aluminium away or possibly reprocess it back through a version of the (expensive) original electrolytic extraction process.. Martin
I'm not going to lie, the sound of the warm casting hitting the cold water after being broken out is so satisfying.
Misterbones, Yes, I like to hear a good sizzle too - because it means I have got it into the water quick enough to give a decent response to later heat treatment.... Martin
Lots of good information for a newcomer like myself. Thanks for sharing!
Old, I am glad that the info was useful. Sharing is my pleasure.... Martin
Fantastic work. As a retired time served pattern maker who made the move to early 3d CAD/CAM, its great to watch traditional casting skills like this. Thanks for sharing. The commercial future for low number parts is 3D printed metals IMO. Mechanical grade processes will arrive eventually, near zero waste. 3D software modelling is becoming trivial.
Chris, I know quite a few skilled traditionally trained pattern makers, genuine chisel at the bench guys! And to a man they all say that they never saw the day coming when patterns would be hacked out on CNC machines - things change. However at the moment I am not too impressed by 3d printed patterns, they take a lot of work to get them layer ridge free so they will draw properly. However I have no doubt that as time passes and the technology improves that situation will change. 3D printed metal is indeed a coming thing - I have a printed titanium thing in my neck! but that's a high value item and as yet the printing process is to slow to be economical for mass production. I do think though that as you suspect its very much a case of "watch this space"... Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 Spot on Martin. There will always be a place for trad' methods as there's more value in the product, my only concern is these skills getting lost over time. Keep up the good work.
Martin, you are correct. A die would be excellent! I have seen this before. The piston cavity is formed by a three part removable metal core. Two for the bosses and one for the center. After casting the center section is pulled and the boss sides collapsed inward and removed. The outside could probably be cast without those complicated sprues. Thanks for the great videos.
What u said about machining and casting piston by ur own hands really appreciate touched my heart Sir
Awesome explanation of why not to CNC. It trully is wonderful to make things witb basic tooling and your God given hands.
Kegan, Thank you - CNC sure has its place just like casting does I guess its a question of knowing which to use when.... Martin
I like your outlook on machining, casting, resources and the environment. Manufacturing things in the most economical way possible to minimize resource wastage is really cool. I have done numerous odd-ball castings over the years that have saved thousands of dollars for my clients and prevented serviceable equipment from being made into scrap. I look forward to seeing more of your videos.
Bruce, I think the older we get the more "frugal" 😏 we become. My parents lived through the great depression (I didn't) and it had the same profound effect on them as it did on anyone who lived it . Some of that effect has rubbed off I guess. Isn't it a wonderful ability to be able to knockout the odd casting when necessary?… Martin
This is truly one of the best You Tube video series I have had the pleasure to watch. The skill, the knowledge, the in depth casting process and all while being very clear and concise with the whole content. Thank you for all of your hard work and time spent both mastering these skills as well as creating this invaluable channel. You sir, are a legend!
Jonny, Thank you for your very kind words... Martin
i thoroughly enjoyed this series. my first real job in the 60's was at a westinghouse air brake foundry. your videos brought back memories of flasks,copes,drags ,shakeouts ,mullers,etec. albiet on a larger scale. in those days mold making and core making were trades that required years of apprenticeship work.its wonderful to see this level of craftsmanship still exists. looking forward to more thank you for keeping the craft alive
I enjoyed watching you cast the pistons AND your rant - thanks for a fine upload.
Hi Martin, long time time no chat, im the bloke who helped -with your strike through problem-.any way mate, again i would like to thank you for the free education, your experience and knowledge is second to none in this forum well done mate.
cheers Bob
Bob, forgive me, for I am old and half senile, memory fails - what strike through problem?... Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 , haha no problem Martin, your video - "My Home Foundry, Most recent Degasing Lance" , we had a discussion about the lines through your text, because of the dash symbol.
Amazing skills, truly the last generation of great craftsmans. Really enjoy watching and learning from you.
Ray, Thank you for your kind thoughts but I certainly hope that I am not the last! Passing on information is what I am about and I am glad that you enjoy it... Martin
I agree 100% with the tendency to reach for a CNC- There is a lot to be said for welding fabrication and casting . It is all good so long as one knows what to choose of course. I really agree with the hands on mentality....which of course is why I watch your content and cast my own stuff!! Thanks for helping to increase my knowledge of a very enjoyable hobby.
Bikefarm, Reaching for the CNC is sometimes good and sometimes bad its worst feature is the wastage of material - the turning it in to something that is difficult to recycle. I have an (older) CNC mill and I do use it so I am not anti CNC by any means but its a horses for courses thing and if one is asked to cast something one does.
Passing on knowledge is what I am here for and if yours has increased because of my presence I am happy.. Martin
Just watched this whole piston series. That's some serious casting... !!! Stunning work. Thanks for sharing. Lots for me to learn from... Cheers Andy. 🍺👍👍👍
Melt, Now, if only I had made some money from it 😏. It was rather a long exercise and all the longer as there had to be a pattern and core box made and of course the pistons had to be machined too. I have just been told that more (quite a few apparently) are required as the same customer has had new blocks cast and there is some sort of world wide demand! Sharing this is a pleasure and if people learn something from it then I am doubly pleased. I might suggest that people keep away from casting pistons as the alloys are prone to gas and shrinkage problems. These can be got around but with some difficulty for the hobbyist - pistons for old cars Ok, for racing motor bikes - no.. Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 Ah but we do it for love... I suppose that wears thin after a little while though... and it doesn't pay the bills either !!
I'm guessing those pistons are the results of several weeks work?
I wouldn't know where to start with all those difficult angles. The whole thought process behind it was fascinating though. I'd never heard of a chill before either, that was really interesting.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge, it's well appreciated. Do keep the videos coming 😃👍👍👍 Wonderful to watch a true master at work. Cheers Andy
Andy, Yes, sometimes it is a "we do it for love" although we may not have wanted it to be!😏. Yes, all up those pistons were quite some effort as it took as a while to get the method right - I think we cast 9 before we got the first useable one! Chills are a valuable resource as they can greatly increase casting soundness and strength.
Sharing the knowledge is why I am here and I am glad that it is of use to you. Working on more videos should have a series starting in a few days.... Martin
Spoken like a pro in the end discussion!
Anthony. Being basically a foundry man I would have to admit to some slight (ahem) bias in this matter. however I down a CNC mill so the bias is not total. I guess its just the use of the most appropriate and familiar methods plus the fact that I was asked to produce castings not "machinings". However there have been other jobs that - well - straight to the mill not to the foundry. I might add I have been pleasantly surprised at how many people including some true CNC professionals agreed.. Martin
even modern engine manufacturers still cast pistons and then only finish them with a CNC mill, I've seen a documentary about how BMW engines are made and they showed the casting process for the pistons followed by the machining process afterwards, so if a huge car manufacturer with millions of pounds, dollars, euros etc etc worth of the latest and probably best CNC equipment still cast pistons then there is probably a good reason that they are still cast. Which is probably as you say to save costs on wastage of materials.
Great video series by the way, i thoroughly enjoyed watching them all, keep up the great work and thanks for sharing your knowledge
John, I think it boils down to simple economics Casting is still the cheapest way. Also some pistons are cast with things like
Ni-resist ring land inserts and integral cooling galleries can't incorporate these with forging or billet machining. I think that both forging and billet are more restricted to specialist markets rather than OEM... Martin
Loved the series on all levels as to how and whys of your process and fully concur with your two cents worth!
thanks for taking the time to share and upload, many thumbs up.
Cheers from John, Australia.
John, Always happy to hear from a fellow Aussie 😊. Thank you for your kind words, sharing is my pleasure.. Martin
Very nice series and I really enjoyed your discussion at the end!
You are a great professional masters of teachers. His ability to explain and his determination to do things in the best possible way is impressive. It has been an honor to have met him, even if it was through UA-cam. I hope that after all this time since your last video you are well. I want to thank you for all that you have taught us. A warm greeting from Spain I hope you understand my english
Pesdro, Greetings back to you from a very wet (at the moment) Melbourne Australia. Thank you very much for your kind words. Your English is fine - and way better than my Spanish😊. I am not as well as I would like hence no videos from me for over a year but I have hopes for the future and long to get back to making more... Martin
You lot make casting look so easy.
burn, Its just a matter of practice... martin
CNC seems to be the catch word for quality these days by product manufactures and people suck right into it not even knowing what it is.
Drives me nuts.
Nice work Sr.
Worth, Yes indeed the world seems to think the word "billet" confers some sort of super power. They forget (or do not know) that the billet too was once molten aluminium i.e. that it originally was a casting... Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 Ruger fire arms has been making some of the strongest receivers on the market by investment casting for years.'
This type of casting allows the grain structure to flow in the shape of the finished product., or at least that is what I have been told.
I do know one thing their receivers are as strong as a mule.
Worth, Investment casting has been the mainstay of a lot of the firearms industry for many years as it is capable of producing complicated net shapes in a wide range of materials including very tough strong steels. You can with skill control grain growth direction and perhaps that is seen at its best with single crystal investment cast turbine blades, quite an art form... Martin
Martin, This was a much appreciated video. Your recap at the end was an excellent tutorial. It’s so refreshing to get through technical instruction, versus someone him hawing and saying ummm and you know. You sir are an inspiration.
Louie, Nice of you to say so but I am sure there was a good few "ums" and "ers" in there - I know there were a few pauses where lost my cheat sheet place. Martin
PS, "You Know" is my most hated saying - if I damn well knew what would someone what to tell me DOH!
As someone who worked in a CNC shop, I must say I agree with you completely. Anyone who has a proper amount of experience will know about using the right tool for the job. In this case, casting was the way to go. Every point you made was well informed. The thing novices miss is the first point. They asked for a cast piston, so you made one.
And that throttle body is simply stunning. Good work.
John, Yes I was very happy with that 4 barrel throttle body. I actually bought my CNC mill (an older one that does not use G code) to cut the die to cast it in. It took me a year to get the mill working to redesign the throttle body from a horrible sand casting and to cut the die it was my first introduction to CNC work and quite a learning experience. Lots of craft wood trials I can assure you before the cutting in Iron started. The precision, repeatability, and ability to make two parts that fit together exactly were what really impressed me about CNC. The die works very well and I can get about 50 per day out of it -If I could melt metal quicker maybe more but at 3 Kg each its a lot of metal!.. Martin
Memories. As an apprentice 55 years ago when I was 17 I was put in the foundry. The furnace was very similar to yours but rather larger. I was shown how to light it by a long steel bar with cotton waste dipped in diesel and poked up a hole in the side of the furnace. The next morning I duly arrived at 08.00 to light the furnace. All went well until I pulled the steel bar out and grabbed it further along. It almost burned through the tendons of my finger joints. Total time in the foundry 4 days. Total time in the coppersmiths next door - 1 year minus 4 days , about a month one handed.
Jp, You can always tell someone who has worked in a foundry - they very gingerly put their hands close to something to feel if it is hot before they touch it. Basic rule of foundry Everything, absolutely everything is hot... Martin
PS I have a lot of mainly minor burn scars!
An excellent series Martin. Thank you for taking the extra time to allow us to peer over your shoulder. The explanations are wonderful to have as well. Kindest regards, Al
Gippetos. Thank you for your comment, It is comments like this that make it all worth while... Martin
You have definitely raised the bar when it comes to metal working
Geekgirl87, I have to keep you lot on your toes 😏… Martin
PS. You must be my first known female viewer 😀
Thank you for your videos. It's a pleasure to watch a craftsman at work.
Brilliant video and the technology behind the poring sprue etc for getting good results which I’ll be using next time I’m casting parts for my old cars. Manny thanks 😊
Paul, The basin and sprue are the easiest and probably the best thing you can do to improve your castings... Martin
That is the best Foundry video series I've watched yet!
Thanks for taking the time and effort to produce them!
S Bell, Thank you for, your comment I just wish that all YT foundry viewers though the same 😏 (not that I am greedy or anything!).. Martin
Thanks for explaining the technical details, that is the guts missing from most casting videos
Well said, Well poured, well produced. In my experience the whole CNC vs cast debate is often started by people who know a little CNC but don't see the technical limits, they don't understand the economics of the time in CNC machining from stock vs time to cast with post-cast machining, and they don't see things as multiple different processes being combined to make something. When you are holding a hammer, every solution is hitting something with it... When all you have is a 5-axis CNC, every solution is to cut stuff out of billet stocks...
Someday someone is going to walk into this type of discussion and start arguing a 3rd solution like Direct Metal Laser Sintering (DMLS) / Selective laser melting, AKA 3D printing metal.
Ask, Thank you very much for your kind words. That "walk in" will almost certainly occur one day but I think its a little way off yet!.. Martin
Oh there is certainly a "3D print all the things" crowd out there who wear strongly rose tinted glasses when it comes to 3D printing. In the end it comes down to what part you are making and to what requirements, there is no best way to make everything, every job has it's own best way to go about it. And it's largely up to the engineer to draw the part to fit a particular production method.
But I would say there are good reasons why small volume parts are mostly machined from billet rather than cast these days. The advantage of CNC is that the end result does not depend as much on the operator. While in case of small volume cast parts the end result is wholly dependent on the skills and competence of the foundry men doing the job. Imagine ordering these cylinder heads cast in China, what kind of quality can you expect? It's a lottery, you never know what you are going to get.
DMLS is incredible technology that can produce parts that would be impossible to machine, out of materials that would be impossible to cast. BUT, the only company I've ever talked to about quoting laser sintered parts would probably charge $8,000 to $10,000 U.S. to make something the size of these pistons. Three cheers for the old ways.
I know Wiseco forged pistons had terrible size variations before they used CNC.finishing. After they started using CNC, sets had very little variation (less than0.0005" on diameters) Forged are stronger but heavier than cast and cheaper than CNC billet. Unless motor was designed (or re-designed) for heavier pistons you will have various other problems (rods, crank, oil system, etc) due to increased bearing loading. Sometimes you may get lucky and find pistons are same weight as OEM but not very often.
A true master. I just wanted to say how grateful and lucky I/we all are for the knowledge you provide. I also hope that your customer tipped you an extra 100 at least. That person just got the deal of a life time. haha
KJ, A extra 100? Sadly, no, nice thought though!..Martin
Others have probably already said this, but I'd like to commend you on your respect for the material and the environmental cost of obtaining it. There is a lesson there for all the trades.
The use of casting and CNC can and should be used in an effort to minimise waste and degradation of the material and produce a superior product.
Cold, I think that both CNC and casting have their place but CNC is maybe used a bit much and can waste a lot of good material. One reason for the importance of not wasting material is that each time something goes around the reclamation cycle it degrades. This is particular true of aluminium...Martin
Martin, I do love you mate. I have had that very same rant to people so many times, good on you for voicing it.
Machining has it's place and in the set of video's I am doing at the moment I end up saying more machining a slightly modified cast would probably be the way I'd go if I had to do more.
I love the Finnish you get with casting, you can make CNC parts look cast but there is a LOT of work to do so.
CNC as you say has it's place & as you say casting then machining is a far more less wasteful option.
Any way, as usual nice job & were talk soon.
Andy
Holy hell your always stepping up us novice foundryman expectations. Love the descussion also very good information there for us math users. Thank you for sharing you knoledge again . Fantastic!
Raschelle, Got to keep you lot on your toes..😏.. Martin
Outstanding. Those came out great. I felt a surge of disappointment when I realized we weren’t going to see the machining. Thanks for the stills. I’m so glad they came out. Im really new at this stuff and I watch you making the molds. I take things so much slower and gentle. I thought for sure one of those pistons were going to be a disaster. It goes to show what I know....or don’t. Hehe
She, Sadly, my customer machined the pistons and he did not shoot a video of it so I had to make do with the stills. We have a few more to make and maybe I can con him into a video next time and publish it as a "sequel"...Martin
Wonderful series of videos. A great explanation at the end too on why casting is a valid method. Brilliant
i gotta save these videos in case tshtf :)
Sir, thank you for taking your time to teach us something.
nume If the information that I present is of use and help to you then I am well pleased.... Martin
Truly Brilliant , master craftsmen at work a joy to watch.
Dave ...🇬🇧 uk
DAVID, Thank you - I could take comments like this all day 😊 ... Martin
Burt Munro casted his own pistons and still holds the record for his cc class. My inspiration to many failed castings
Chris, Yep, Burt sure was a legend - I guess he got his castings right, much helped no doubt by them being relatively thin and light - much easier to cast like that than the thick heavy ones I had to do here.... Martin
A Pleasure to listen to someone that knows what they're talking about and is practical at the same time. People should be lined up at your door, willing to pay to intern. -jim
Skip, Sadly it has never happened! A few have had a quick look, but no interns..😥. Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 It's a shame, Thank you for passing on a little of your experience and savvy thru your youtube videos -jim
Good explanation of cast vs CNC milling
Another great video Martin. I fully agree with your final comments.
Bloody fantastic - you are by far, by a country mile, the most informative and most talented metal caster on u-tube - everyone looks amateurish in comparison - apologies for the effusive compliments - but I am transfixed by your processes and knowledge - congratulations and thanks.
Gez, Hey, mate don't apologise keep the comments coming I love 'em 😊… Martin
Same here. I was taught some moulding and casting as an apprentice in the early 1970's and we didn't even begin to scratch the surface.
G’day Martin. That first fire up was impressive but on the later second fire up you caught the camera man off guard, the camera moved quickly to the left. I do agree with you, it’s something beautiful to see raw material melted with fire, to see the molten metal pour and later be dug out with a primal tool to reveal a thing of beauty created by you, awesome. Many thanks for sharing, cheers Peter
Peter, Yes, the relight went off with a bit of a bang! I did warn of the possibility but it still caught some of guard - just about change underwear all round 😄. Sharing is my pleasure... Martin
I love watching things like this. Thank you for taking the time to help pass along some insights into your art.
I always appreciate your content, and being a very amateur hobbyist molder I always learn something from your commentary. This time in particular I appreciated your point about how automation can support 'old tech' by using them to compliment each other. mrpete222 has done some of this lately at a smaller scale with his (even simple) templates being basic PLA parts from a 3D printer. The possibilities there are truly inspiring.
uberintj. A friend and I have been playing around with 3D printing as a method of pattern production - it sorta works but it has its problems. The line structure of the print is the real difficulty as it tends grab the sand and make pattern withdrawal difficult.
My video on a gang tooling block and my one of a trophy diamond both use 3D prints as the pattern but they are simple shapes but we have a more complicate and I think a rather interesting job coming up... Martin
As a machinist for the past 30+ years, I find your work amazing. I've been watching the piston series and hoping we would get some video of the machining! It look like it turned out perfect. Greetings from the U.S.
kcraig, Sadly I did not do the machining and no video was taken of it. All I got were those few stills - better than nothing but a 5 or 10 minute video of the machining would have been a nice addition. We have more to make maybe a video next time. Greetings back from Australia.. Martin
Excellent series, I learned so much just watching this series.
As someone who needs a couple of pistons for an obsolete tractor I found this series of video's very interesting.... It is a shame that I live so far away from your place of business... I have a small shop where I could finish off a piston blank but no way to make one... and by the way the sweet songs of birds are much better than the noisy music some UA-camr's use or what one will hear in many shops....
Clarke, Thanks for the reference to the birds 😊 my wife gets very annoyed 🤬when people say they do not like them listening to them is her joy. And I agree about the music on some channels - it can be an absolute pain, some though e.g. "out of the woods" do it nicely.
If you were close and if I was well enough 😥 we could fix your little tractor problem easy - all can suggest is that you buy that book I mentioned on casting pistons, get some old pistons to melt down for metal, and have a go - what have you got to loose... Martin
Excellent final monologue, go to Canberra, talk sense to our poliies and our world would be sensible and sustainable!
Richard, I cry for the future of our great country. Canberra and Spring street solely inhabited by rogues, rip of merchants, main chancers, liars lawbreakers, obfuscators, and generally people who are beholden to noisy minorities and adept at spending other peoples money in as unwise a fashion as possible. I weep, seriously I do and I thank the fates that I will not be around for too much longer- but Oh! My poor grandchildren. And Oh! What they have done to Melbourne - now an overcrowded third world slum with the worst supply of the highest priced electricity (and gas) in the world. So bad they are paying people not to use electricity on hot days... Sad, so very sad... Martin
Excellent videos Sir!
Lon, Thank you..... Martin
Totally agree with your 2 cents worth, I have a manual machine shop and 3d routers, printers & lazer etc (trying to keep the old brain active), but I find each tool has its place and as and old fitter turner I still love producing things with my manual tools. once again thank for you channel.
Fitter turner, does that place you Oz? I think they use the term machinist elsewhere, no prize for guessing what made me think that!
yes a brother in Oz.
A bit of history you may already know so not preaching but might be interested to our overseas friends.
we have also in the past use to have machinists but they were only in the machine shop (semi or full production shop) and often a trainee ship connected to a specific industry rather than a full apprenticeship (Not saying any less skilled on the work they did)
The fitter and turner did not only all the machine shop and not specialised on certain machinery and mostly not production, but also fitting other than in the shop such as production machinery, ships, heavy machinery, general repairs, (some also included welding, sheet metal & blacksmith) all hand fitting works etc, The trade is highly skilled across a broad rang of tasks.
It is based on the UK systems of trades(turner, Fitter, 2nd class machinist and some jobbing shop fitter/turner) but most of the commonwealth countries being remote has taken the individual trades skills and combined them into into higher level of combined skills.
But you are correct the trade has a range of names and skill levels. in the end the skill level is up to the individual no matter what you call your self and the best are the best.
Been watching this in mid '22. Hope this counts to your YT tally. I was hoping to meet up with you in about a month when I visit my Family in Sydney but that trip has been postponed til "23. Your stuff is fascinating and very well presented. I was particularly absorbed in the casting of the pistons, tying to figure how all the strange patterns would work. Had to wait till the end when your discussion revealed all. Trust you are well. Keep up the good work. Martin in RSA.
Martin, Thank you for your comment. I live in Melbourne Australia its about 1000 KM south of Sydney. I used Stephen Chastain's book "Making Pistons" as a starting point for this work but modified his methods to be more in line with modern casting practices. Piston alloys are a little difficult as they seem more prone to gas problems than, say, the 356 alloy. Also of course their solidification pattern is entirely different. I am not as well as I would like to be but that is just part of old age I guess - sigh.... Martin
I've been in the cnc machine business for 30 years, and see that industry becoming a bit less necessary due to the 3 D methods being developed- was at Hannover, Cologne and Chicago shows in the last year, and what the 3 D guys are doing is amazing- just not on a home shop level yet, so for us geezers it won't have much impact. PS- really enjoy your videos, and foundry work is something i never tried.
Old, Yes, the future does promise to be very interesting. Half your luck getting around that much... Martin
Good series. Great ending. Bravo, sir! You speak eloquently for your trade.
Holton, Someone has to its a dying trade 😏! Thanks for your comment... Martin
A great series! For me it was the best yet, many thanks for your time.
Amazing skill and beautiful work.
Solexx, Thank you... Martin
Great job! I think it turned out most excellent. Casting was the proper way to make them.
I've watched everyone of your videos many times over! Its inspirational to see such a skilled foundryman at work. I'd love to see a video of that die for the 4 barrel throttle body in action. Great work keep them coming!
Christopher. Thank you for al the views I am grateful. I have shot a video of that 4 barrel throttle body. BUT I am unhappy with the footage as its with the camera hand held and is thus rather shaky. I am trying image stabilization software but you loose a lot of the edges of the frame. I have not given up yet and may just do the best I can with the footage and upload it despite the shakiness. My alternative is to wait until hopefully I run the job again and can organise some better camera work. The casting of this throttle body does involve a few "tricks" worth showing and as I cut the die myself I am rather proud of it all... Martin
Very Inspirational. Love your work.
Buck, Thank you... Martin
Great series. That throttle body is a work of art 🙏 Great job on the pistons too, sounds like the customer got a bargain from you.
John, A bargain indeed! But worse still I have another 4 pistons to make and I have rather set the price - Oh well you can't win them all 😥… Martin
Nice job and interesting details on the sprue feeder. As you said the real deal is to understand the limits/economics of the process you are using to make a viable product.
I'm with you Martin. It is much more satisfying producing things in this manner.
I only have UA-cam amateurs to compare you with, but you make incredibly nice castings.
Wow, thank you so much for sharing this. I picked up casting about a year ago as a hobby, I’m still pretty clumsy at it, started with coal and just moved onto gas, using green sand now trying petro bond. I’m getting there. Your two cents (worth a lot more I’d say) has really summed up how I feel about the craft. Your summary about the pour rates, alloy cooling/shrinking in the feeders and inclusions was awesome. The cut out you showed to display how the metal acts as it cools was brilliant. I have looked into a lot of these things, the theory of metal casting is very extensive but I haven’t seen it displayed in such a way that was easy to understand and so clear to see. Mate I’m going to stop here because i could keep going, thanks again, you do yourself and the craft a great service with these videos.
max, Thank you for your comment. I could take comments like yours all day! 😊 The theory of metal casting is indeed very extensive and I know but a small part of it. Unfortunately and as a bit of a trap for young players much of the theory is outdated and a lot just plain wrong. There is I can assure you a lot of bad info out there peddled by people who do not know any better and sadly seem to have little intention of improving their knowledge - typical of old time foundry men they dig their heels in and stick to what they think they know. This is why I got onto UT to try and correct some of this bad info - sadly I am not winning..😰... Martin
Olfoundryman, sorry to hear about the bad info out there, now that you mention it though it kind of makes sense. At the end of the day people will believe what they want to believe regardless if it holds truth. But don’t give up! Your casting results speak perfectly well for your knowledge, and I don’t care how much of a wordsmith someone is, you can’t argue with results.
On an unrelated topic (sort of) could I ask what sand mix you use? I have just discovered your channel and I’ll definitely dig around to see if you have explained this already and, you mentioned drying a mould at some point to get better detail, how did you do this. Cheers.
Max, I use a natural green sand. It came from a quarry about 50 km from where live. There is a video of how I "make" my facing sand and another of how I reprocess the sand at the end of each casting run and yet another of the machine I use to do this. Try these
ua-cam.com/video/L9qP39y3E4k/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Zmo1nTYc1g0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/ASTMlwUil5Y/v-deo.html
Yes I have dried moulds to improve sharper detail. This was on some memorial plagues with my very fine sand steam from the clay bond can interfere with metal running into small lettering properly so I oven dried the moulds at about 140 deg c for several hours and the lettering came out very sharp indeed. Some people used to just dry the surface of a mould with a gas flame but you have to pour very soon after this skin drying even spraying on metho and flaming it off will often help a bit... Martin
Olfoundryman excellent, I’ll give the videos a watch and try the gas flame method of mould drying. Cheers
Max, If you use an acetylene flame and smoke the mould with the soot the metal will run about 3 times as far! Only acetylene will do and its a messy greasy business. Note that you have to cast quite soon after taking the flame away as the moisture "strikes back" toward the dry surface.. Martin
Thanks for your time, knowledge and effort to bring these videos to the world.
Sharn..
great little series really enjoyed watching you from start to finish and you definitely can have my 2 cents will said, nothing like getting your hands dirty
John, Yes, its a great satisfaction and I pity those who don't do something - anything, doesn't have to be foundry just as long as it something... Martin
Loved your discussion of casting v. cnc
Just found your channel and watched this entire piston series. Nice work and good on you for calling people out for thinking they can do this cheaper and easier. There's always lots of armchair experts ready to criticize.
Keen, You are not wrong - thanks for your supporting voice... Martin
For a small level casting business your able to do great big works, good job, happy holidays
While I can't see why you would need to defend your position on casting -vs- CNC, I can appreciate your explanation for the masses and offer a hearty "Amen, Brother!". You have to be a machinist to really comprehend the effort needed to get a truly good finish or appearance and the waste of material can be staggering.
Folks assume you can just chuck the swarf/chips into a furnace and get back the same amount of like material. If they only knew how wrong that assumption is. When I see something touted as "Made from a solid billet of blahblahblah" like it's the epitome of perfection I just cringe and think "Lazy", "wasteful" or "This steak was created from a chunk of 100% Spam" - serviceable yet unappetizing all the same.
Those pistons turned out gorgeous. Good fortune may have played a small part but wisdom and experience carried the lions share.
Well done, Sir!
Eddie, "this steak was created from a chunk of 100% spam" got to say I absolutely love it😃… Martin
Well said on many fronts. Please keep up the good work. I enjoyed this video very much.
I agree with what was said at the end. What awsome job on the pistons. I now we’re I would go to get something made.
Wonderful presentation from a true craftsman. Thank you.
You're a bloody champion mate
An excellent series and outcome; plus an informative discussion at the end. The footage around about 5 mins looks almost apocalyptic!
Indeed...
I'm glad I found your channel. Amazing work and insights. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.