Several years ago an elderly man brought a guitar into the local music store. He asked what it was worth. The guitar tech and salesman looked at each other. “Hold on” the sales man said. He called Martin guitars and described what the man had brought in then took some photos and emailed them to the rep. Turns out it was a 1936 or 1937 D-28. The guy at Martin told him to call his insurance company and get it insured for at least $90,000. That whole 30 minutes was pretty wild.
@@1983electricDoes the whole family get together and play it at the same time? I know that's not what you meant but that's the picture that popped up in my head and it was rather funny 😂
@@1983electric I was pretty sure you meant something along those lines but thanks for the clarification. The best sounding guitar I've ever played is a Martin HD-28 LSV. It's modeled after the guitar Clarence White played. I think Tony Rice ended up with the original. I've never heard anything that even comes close. If you ever see one, sit down and play it, it'll be worth your time.
I live in middle TN and there's only 1 music store in the closest town, besides driving an hour and half to Nashville or Knoxville. They've been known as doing some shady things. Once there was an electronic drum kit that was $400 on Musicians Friend and they were buying from MF and reselling them for $1000. My wife's boss had a Gold Tone banjo her dad had gave her, had been taking banjo lessons for awhile from them. She decided she wanted to sell the banjo. The guy she had been taking lessons from there told her it was worth $300 and the store would buy it. She had my wife ask me because she felt that wasn't right. Me not knowing banjos took to a reputable luthier and it was worth about $1800 used. I sold it for her for $1600. My church needed a p.a. system put in, they asked me what they needed. I told them I would look and give them an estimate but to be fair, they should ask that store for an estimate too. They showed their estimate and list of gear. It had a home stereo amplifier for the power amp, home stereo speakers etc, a 32 channel ipad mixer etc etc and the quote was $20,000. Our church has no band but is a large church, with cables 15" speakers, wireless mics, 16 channel board, a real p.a. amp etc etc for $6000. My wife's uncle had a 1970 Gibson J50 Deluxe. He took to them to have it restrung. They told him the bracing was broke and they could fix it but it was only worth about $250-300 like it was. $700 repair. He called me from the store I told him to bring it to me, I took to my luthier and the guitar had no bracing issues at all. They restrung it, polished frets with setup etc for $40. Told him it was easily a $1500 guitar as is. I could go on and on
It happens in every field of antiques and collectibles. One example that comes to mind is the case of the militaria dealers and appraisers for Antiques Roadshow who ripped off the descendant of Confederate General George E. Pickett, purchasing his sword and memorabilia for $80,000 only to flip it for $800,000 to a collector. The family sued and got an $800K judgement from a jury.
We have places like that over here in England. Family will lose a grandad and sell his medals to these places for pennies. The place then puts them in auction and makes a mint.
There is more than that to Pickett trial. There was a fraud in that the buyer, Pritchard, claimed to represent the City of Harrisburg in the establishment of a civil war museum, which was not true. Pritchard sold the Pickett items to the City after he misrepresented the appraised value to the seller. He diid not just make a low ball offer, (that is not illegal) he misrepresented his appraisal claiming that he was acting for someone else. That was the fraud. Selling low without knowledge of true value, without more, does not entitle the remorseful seller to recover. If your ancestor is a civil war historical person, get an independent appraisal, or two, before selling his memorabilia…it’s just common sense.
@@twatmunro Same for the one in the US. An appraiser who had been on once was busted for fraud and now everything he ever did is apparently AR's fault. But the silver lining is the descendents of a horrible human being got to profit from their ancestors notoriety as a horrible human being.
Pawn Shops are the worst. Several years ago I took my USA Gibson SG and gig bag I bought from Sweetwater and Fender amp (the model name escapes me…the cheap modeling amp they did) to a pawn shop to see what I could get for it. My wife had been in the hospital and I missed work to be with her so I needed money to pay some bills and stuff. The guitar new was about 1500 and the amp was about 250. Both in mint condition. I knew how pawn shops worked so I decided that if they offered me anything close to 1200 for both, I’d take it. The guy asked me what I was trying to get out of it but I know that trick and told him I was just looking to see how much they could give me. So he looked the stuff over and offered me 250 bucks for both. He told me that the guitar was a fake and that the amp had electrical issues. I assured him that the guitar was NOT a fake and that the amp played perfectly an hour before and asked if it had been plugged in correctly. So he got all offended and said that he’d been doing this for 20 years and can spot a fake 100 yards away and that he’s more than capable of plugging up an amp correctly and the best he’d offer was 300 or leave it. So I politely reached over to where the amp was plugged up and shocker it wasn’t plugged in all the way. So then I reached into my back pocket and grabbed the receipt from sweetwater and slid it to him. He looked down at it, saw that he was wrong, slid it back to me and then said that it could be a fake receipt. I sssured him it wasn’t and told him no thanks. Before I walked out he asked if 400 would do it. I didn’t even answer him. And left.
I work at a pawn shop with an excellent reputation. We try to give the best assessment that we can. We try to get comparables of SOLD guitars. We then explain to the customers how we determine the price. Our offer is always going to be HALF of what we sell it for. This goes all of the items that we sell. With the advent of online reviews, our business can be ruined with a few bad reviews. We prefer if an item is authentic and valuable and if we cannot take an item, we try to advise the seller how and where to sell. Personally, I would not work at another pawn shop as I know my boss is fair and honest. I cannot speak on other stores but we are never looking to ripoff a customer. In your situation, you can reasonably assume that a new $1500 guitar and $250 Amp would sell for 50% of that price. We would offer 50% of the used selling price. There are exceptions but that is a general rule.
I love to support small local businesses, but to be honest this is why I'd rather sell gear to a big outfit. With the big chain store it's not personal to the person you're dealing with and while they might make mistakes sometimes it's not their money and they don't get to "score" if they screw you over. Unless you are an absolute expert on what you're selling or you have a truly excellent relationship with the owner of the store you never know for sure if they're shooting straight with you. Either way, nowadays the internet is your friend before selling anything.
Pretty sure the same guy (let's call him Bob), bought matching Lloyd Loar mandola and mandolin from an elderly Mexican woman who's husband played them in an orchestra in Phoenix. He paid her $250.00 for the pair. The mandolin alone was probably worth $250,000. I bought a late 60's Martin from him with the agreement that he provide a hard shell case. Long story short I had to sue him in small claims court after 10 weeks of trying to get him to provide me a case. The guy was a theif.
Back in the early 80's my brother who was living in Inverness Scotland saw an ad. for a Les Paul custom for £250. He went to see it and it was a Les Paul switch master with the 1,2 3, all switch. The only one I've ever seen was played by John Miles and he reckoned it was his which was stolen. He didn't buy it and God knows where it is now. Probably one of the rarest Les Paul's which you can see in videos of him playing it.
I remember well, the online Ed Roman rants. He HATED the internet, because sellers could actually research the true value and rarity of vintage instruments. If there is a guitar hell, Ed Roman is taking it in the input jack right now.
@ VMS….. peculiar though, if it wasn’t for him and ECMM, there wouldn’t have been the accessibility to as much quality gear in Danbury and the surrounding areas
I had a guy who had traded a car for a limited edition Kirk Hamett ESP. He actually thought it was stolen and he had gotten a good deal. It was a counterfeit. That was a really hard phone call and discussion.
I knew a guy who bought a small music store around 20 years ago. He told me a kid came in with a mid 60's fender stratocaster and, if i remember correctly, a 70's yamaha acoustic. He gave him 300 dollars for both. I don't know what happened after that, but the business ended up folding eventually.
Phil, thanks for being an honest and ethical businessman. It matters, and it matters a lot. A person that's not a player, selling the instrument for cash or a musician hobbyist is only asking for a fair deal, and not get taken. That's true of a professional musician as well, as only the elite make enough money to not care what they pay or receive for a sale. For every "I bought an $8000 guitar for $450" story, there are going to be many cases where the guitar that they are sure is worth $2000 is only worth $600. When you're an honest party on the true value of a valuable guitar, your business will build the reputation on that regular resale as well, and people will want to patronize you, rather than treat your shop as a place of last resort. It's certainly the case that the seller always benefits by doing their research, but I think it's hard and will be increasingly hard for people to do that. In a world of social media, there are a lot of people who don't know what they're looking at, and really don't know what it's worth. If you follow repair forums, it's pretty clear that some people exist on these boards to say "fill the crack with super glue" no matter what the level of damage is...
This guy absolutely stole that instrument and its value from that lady. I have bought stuff from customers that walked in, bought it for my own use…….but I ALWAYS make sure they know the full value of what they have. If not, I’m STEALING, literally.
I appreciate watching this. There are pieces of gear I regret selling, but none of them were huge losses, nor were they ever to guitar stores because I understand the re-sale issue.
There was a pawn shop here in Southampton in England very much like that place. He'd often buy Martin's and Gobsons off some rich Uni kid who had no idea of the value. But he wouldnt sell those in the window, he'd flip them privately and not declare it a part of the business. He was also a landlord and would take these things as rental payment.
Shady manager told a lady her 50's les paul was worth 500$ to the store but he would buy it off her for 1000$. For himself, not for the store. I was luckily there that day, got wind of it, and while he was walking to his bank to grab cash, i called her, informed her of what was going on. Owner refused to fire him and acted like i was in the wrong... My father owned 2 music stores. I was the purchasing manager at both and also taught trumpet lessons. He was being paid nearly double what i was being paid. They fired me a few weeks later without pay. They are now toy stores. And that manager tried to snake the lease out from my dad. 🤣 My dad is a pos
I'm a flipper and always pay fair prices for the stuff I buy. I was buying Christmas gifts on Craigslist for my neighbors and the lady had a bunch of other stuff. She was the apartment manager and was helping a resident sell off their father's stuff who had died recently. A guitar case was there and it was a 1979 Strat. Refinished to natural and in rough shape, but I asked the price and she said $60! I told her that I couldn't pay that but would give her $800! She couldn't believe it and I went out to get the cash, got the guitar and sold it for around $1300. I've sold a bunch of those over the years and know what they're really worth. I was lucky she didn't try to look it up and see the crazy prices people are asking for them!
" I was lucky she didn't try to look it up and see the crazy prices people are asking for them!" So, that's just a matter of degree. You knew it was worth a lot more than she imagined. It was still an unequal transaction between an expert and an ignorant person, aka a mark. A windfall for you, but that extra $500 could have meant a lot for her. The only times I've made a bunch of money on instruments has been when I've owned the instrument for years as the value appreciated. Flippers can drive the prices of instruments way beyond reason. One flipper in Evergreen Colorado single handedly started the explosion of the prices of Alembic basses. You see the same thing in real estate. Now private equity firms are getting into the act and are buying up all the properties for sale and renting them out at usurious prices and neglecting the upkeep. How long before they run the guitar flipping business, too?
I used to frequent yard sales Flea Markets etc long before the internet. I came across a lot of guitars that IMO were being sold well below what they were worth and I would try and educate the sellers because I was not going to rip someone off. I went to a yardsale I saw advertised in the local Want Ads classifieds. While there I saw an old Fender case leaning on the wall I picked it up laid it down on the ground opened it and saw a Pre CBS strat in like new condition. I asked what they wanted and they said $75.00! This was in the early 80s and the couple selling it was in their late 60s. The story about the guitar was it was in a closet in the house when they bought it they held on to it thinking the owner would call looking for it. They eventually forgot about it until they were selling their house to retire in Fl. I told them it was worth a lot more and they just didn't care. I had to force them to take all the cash I had and even then it was only a fraction of what it was worth.
This is exactly the right attitude to have Phil. There’s enough in the world for everyone to be happy and comfortable, we don’t need to walk over others to be ‘successful’. As a buyer I always offer what I believe to be fair (even if it’s the asking price or higher) and I make that clear, I don’t lowball someone to work up to a price I’m happy with. If there’s a difference of opinion on the price then there’s no deal, so be it. I’ve even told a seller they were selling a book for $30 that’s worth $120. As a seller I always list at a fair price that can handle a 10-15% negotiation depending on circumstances. I don’t play games with people, whether initiated be me or the other party. I often pick my buyers, for example I list something at $200, buyer A offers $150 and mucks around a bit. Buyer B is happy to pay $200 but is upfront about needing a couple of days to pay. I sell to buyer B with a discount to maybe $170. The reasoning is the principle but also the amount of work it would’ve taken to get buyer A to get to a deal and if I would have had to compromise anyway might as well do it with an honest customer who could likely be a return customer for years to come and they tell their mates.
Especially with "Vintage" Guitar dealers who are solely responsible for the outlandish prices they put on instruments & for the prices they offer for a used instrument as they try to "steal it from the customer! In my opinion, vintage guitar dealers are right up there with used car salesmen, ambulance chasing attorneys & criminal defense attorneys!!!!
I got thrown out of several pawn shops as a teenager for interrupting lop-sided deals. The first time it happened was the pawn shop where I had bought my first few POS guitars. The guy was wrangling for $100 on a guitar that was easily worth $500. After I walked to the counter and told him the mistake he was about to make of course the counter guy was livid and unceremoniously tossed me out loudly. So a minute later the would be sucker met me outside asking if I'd give him $500 for it! I was like "Dude, I don't have that kind of cash!" So... he headed back inside! I guess like my dear ol' Da' always used to say "50% of something is better than 100% of nothing!" Haha!
I have a couple of bits of gear that are going to fall into the "vintage" category in a few years or are already there. One is an early 1990s Peavey Bravo 112. Was it a super expensive amp when it was new? No, it was maybe $300, $400. They still go for about that much. The Bravo was a 12AX7 and EL84 tube amp with a tube driven spring reverb tank. I can see that amp becoming pretty valuable sometime in my lifetime. Thing is-that's my amp. It's got a clean channel, a dirty channel, and a switch that puts it into a high gain mode. It's all tube, it's got reverb, it's got a cabinet out, and it has an effects loop. In other words, it will do just about anything you can ask a combo tube amp to do. It's going to remain being my amp even if Bravos start selling for $1500. I'd only sell something if it became valuable if I had no attachment to it. And if I had no attachment to it, I probably wouldn't keep it long enough for it to become valuable.
I repair guitars as a bit of a hobby so I am always hitting local pawn shops and GC and local shops for high quality potential projects. Most recent find a 000-28 Martin in need of some love. 4-5 hours later looks and plays as sweet as ever. Joined the herd where she will stay until she is traded. I don't bother with instruments not worthy of good trade value when restored. Mostly American and some Japanese and Korean instruments are worth it depending on the work level required. I have repaired and resold a number of them but I look at it as a RESCUE, not a flip. as it is in good playable order when I pass it on.
I needed a case and brought a 68 gibson to the local store and the guy asked if id be interested in selling it. I asked how much and he says $200. I laughed and left. It shows what a rip they are.
I'm thinking that may've happened with my dad. In the early nineties, he had sold his '54 Fender Strat, and the Fender tweed amp. He probably had some GAS ( gear acquisition syndrome ) sometime after, and for a while.
@ guitars are a commodity. Not just expensive ones. 2 years ago i found a squier tele for 100 bucks, and recently sold it for 260, usually i buy and sell american guitars, but id sell alot more squiers if i could pull those numbers again
I've been buying and selling guitars for fifty five years, I commend you for being honest. I no longer buy or sell, but there are a lot of dishonest people out there in the business. I always tell people to educate their self buy looking at all of the resources that are available today on the internet and elsewhere. I'm not a collector and what I think is a shame is the price by age and brand that is going on out there, I've played and seen a lot of big name guitars that are considered vintage that sound and play like crap. Does this make them worth big bucks? Guitars were made to be played. Not collected.
I love flipping gear, it’s how I pay for my hobbies. I don’t make hundreds of percent on stuff, but if I see someone asking a bit low on price on swap forums/sites I’ll buy it, refurb/clean and resell. It’s also a great way to learn about new gear and try out stuff you might not have otherwise checked out. I don’t just flip problems, I fully test everything.
THANK YOU, wish more people were honest. As you described repeatedly, with honesty there is still room for each person in sale ( be it 2, 3, 4 individuals) to prosper comfortably. I love music and gear. I dispise 7 of 10 people I've attempted business with, both in New and used music equipment. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your ❤
in Sacramento a lady was cleaning up her uncles house he had passed away he had some old saxophones so she took them in and they bought them then she found a flying V sitting in the corner so she took that down and they said they don't buy old guitars so she took it to GC and asked for $500 they said it's worth more so take it home and let us make a phone call so they contacted Joe Bonamasa then he came to the store she brought it in well it was a 58 flying V I don't know what he paid but it was a fair deal they could of stole it for $500 so good on GC they aren't always honest from my experience with them so do your homework before you sale it
I worked at a music store in the UK for a while. Heard a story that a man came in and said, I have this strat I don’t know what it’s worth would you buy it? The guys in the store looked at it and realised it appeared to be a mint original early 70’s strat. They basically said, ‘we can’t give you an accurate value on this as we don’t sell vintage its not our area of expertise - we don’t wanna rip you off by accident go get it appraised properly and see what you can get private sale or with a vintage specialist dealer’ he came back several months later and showed us that the guitar had appraised and it had sold for nearly £10k at auction (about $12k) while the store had absolutely lost out on a potential sale and could have ‘scammed’ the guy out of a beautiful instrument and then flipped it for a profit - the risk to the stores reputation wasn’t worth it and the fact they admitted they didn’t know enough to appraise a vintage instrument really spoke to the integrity of the individuals who worked there. stories like the ones in this video shows how important it is to find good people to do business with and do your own research with anything you’re selling, especially vintage music gear.
Geez... if I could get a few bucks more than I paid for a guitar, I would be happy. As long as my wife doesn't know what I paid for it in the first place!
There’s a lot of very naive people in the world which is why scammers do so well in general and there should be some personal responsibility in being more worldly wise… but that doesn’t mean it’s right to take advantage of them. I assume these people would be pretty unhappy if it was their grandma that was getting ripped off. If someone is asking 250 for a 14k guitar, maybe you don’t have to tell the whole truth, but bartering them down from 250 is wild. A guitar is only a 14k guitar if someone gives you 14k for it - if you offer 10k for it, that’s a 10k risk you’ve taken
@@StevenSimpson-it5mv Huh? I worked at GC in 2000 and used gear was the biggest money maker they had. Our state made us wait 60 days before we could put used stuff on the floor and half of our warehouse was used gear.
@@StevenSimpson-it5mv Wow, someone more confused than I was when I made that trade! The Roland GR-1 is a guitar synthesizer that was manufactured by Roland Corporation. It was introduced in 1992. I got one of the first 10 in the TC area. Store managers could make trades for new equipment, IN THE 1990's!!!
Great stories. I sold expensive HiFi, I have similar stories to tell. We too took in trades but didnt buy used equipment out right. That policy got really tough when a customer who spent six figures with us died and their family wanted us to buy back their equipment. That said, being an honest retailer does not benefit your bottom line, but it does help you sleep at night. Customer assume you are dishonest, so being honest at a time when you could otherwise screw them over only makes the majority of customers even more wary of you.
The Flipper who bought a les paul standard 1959 off of " radio tradeo... in Ontario Cn. Is the limit !!! His wife heard the deal off radio station, & prolly everyone thought it was a reissue for 2000 bucks (Canadian)... so he went bought it from a elderly couple only ownet and sold it in N.Y.C. (webuyguitars) for 400 K !!!! This is not that long ago , crazy absolutely no soul ....
The best thing is be honest with people, i have gotten so much great stuff from people who just needed the money and wanted the stuff to go to someone who would use it and give it a good home. Hell even offered more than asking if it's a good jem. Example, bassman cabinet from 60s, free from a church, i donated a bit for it, they were throwing it away. Ovation cabs, they were so cheap, 20 for two, i gave them 20 each and use them a ton, they are pretty rare to find and sound great, worth it. Or guitar store has huge sale, get a bass for 45% off, still getting good deal but on the other side where yea your not getting it basically free but for half price it not something to complain about
I have come to learn that everyone has a fate. You can try to help people, but they are meant to be how they are. You can be honest but you don't have to go nuts. Best to usually not say much. People frankly don't even want you to educate them. Most people get insulted. Simply smile and offer what you think is a fair or even good price for YOU. You are not their parent or guardian. Simply tell them what you are willing to pay them. Period. It can be higher than their ask or lower. No explanation is needed. You are not their researcher. You are the professional buyer. They can assume it's relative value if they like but again, this is on them. Otherwise, you can end up getting the short end of the stick. Sure- be a good, ethical person but just do your job and nothing more.
When I was a 17 yr old teenager I bought my first real guitar from an old band man in the next little town... it was just a cool FENDER!!! guitar and I was in heaven. This was back in the very early 80s and I paid 100 for it. I remember taking it apart - I was one of those kids - and on the neck end it was written in pencil 04/59. That meant nothing to me at the time. Anyway... I sold it to a music store in the nearest city for the same money a couple of years later. It was a Butterscotch Tele. Did the music store owner know it was worth a lot more or was it even worth a lot more back then? I do not know.
I personally was in a small shop in Alabama and watched a sad mentally challenged guy walk in with 3 mandolins. One was a Gibson, another 2 with brand names that l can’t remember right now but they were branded. I’m standing right next to the guy and looking over everything and the poor fella says l have to have at least $60. The shop owner says … ok can do that. I couldn’t believe it. Me and the shop owner looked at each other and he knew that l know he’s totally taking advantage of the guy. I gave him a smirk and walked out.
The question one must ask themselves when dealing with guitar dealers, or any dealer, really: Do they care more about the guitars and the line of work they are in? Or, do they care more about money, to the extent that the guitars (or whatever they are selling) are simply a means to an end. The end being money.
I once knew a irascible motorcycle shop owner who for 60 years relished the attention brought to light by being at the heart of several urban legends. He would loudly admit the most off-putting stories imaginable were all true. After he passed away it came to light he was actually the opposite of what image was and all the legendary stories did not originate from, nor were actually about him. I prefer to think these stories of some people taking advantage of others are mostly urban legends. Yep, yep, yep.
I use a large nation instrument store to sell my used instruments. I get more money than I would selling locally and do not have to worry about after sale problems. I can also avoid my habitual "Buy high - sell low" problem.
Pawn shops are notorious for undervaluing your instrument, we are lucky in Canada to have a company called Long And Mcquade, they will basically give credit to anyone who walks in the door, and they have started many musical careers.
The only Martin OM 45 deluxe I ever saw was "stolen" from a widow who remembered her husband bought it for $350 in the early 30s (a lot of dough back then) in installments I guess, but he played in a big band. They gave her the $350 without considering the current equivalent and sold it for $10.000. (worth more than 10 times that now). I was shocked but I got the same excuses: she left happy, she would resent us making two grand commission if she knew etc. A young guy in 2024 can can do research, a recently widowed elderly black lady 40yrs ago was taken advantage of with no mercy. The Pope said his dearly beloved granny taught him this as a child: "Remember, a shroud has no pockets". Regardless of your beliefs, think about it.😢❤
When u buy a guitar from a recognized store, they should tell u Exactly what ur buying! When u buy online or from a “flipper”, there is no assurance what ur actually getting. Unless there’s actual provenance in the records. Like the ownership certificates that come with Fenders & Gibbons.
Phil explained that in the video, you obviously didn't hear that part. .. the collectable guitar buyer told the guitar owner that Phil had rang him to say he done more research and it wasn't worth as much as he thought it was originally... basically lied to the seller. Thats why the seller took the low offer.
Hey Phil I recently went to my local GC to trade my ‘21 Dingwall DRoc standard bass (case queen) for a used Fender American ultra jazz bass . The online comps of its value were comparable . I asked the manager when I arrived if they did straight trades and he said yes (then he left the sales floor) the salesperson looked at my bass denied it (all the salesmen & customers were agog on how clean the bass was ) he entered the info in his computer to generate a price but nothing came up so he called the store in Hollywood & they quoted him that they would sell my bass for 1,599 and he could offer me a grand take it or leave it . I said well I’m looking to do a straight trade for the Fender & he said he couldn’t do that & it doesn’t work that way . I said I know the way retail works but I also know that bass has been sitting fir at least 3 months & if you’re selling the bass fir 10 cheaper than what you would sell my dingwall for than that means you roughly bought the fender fir the sane price you’re offering for my dingwall so what’s the issue & he said well it just doesn’t work that way (yes I understand overhead rent salary etc) but the deal was still a fair deal in my opinion. . I wasn’t that person that demanded to talk to the manager . I said politely I’m in no rush to sell my bass for that much of a loss & I’d hold on to it . Am I in the wrong here ? What am I missing ? Oh I sold them a MIM fender a few months prior for about $375 they said they were selling it for $699 & I know the guy who bought it for. Them & he told me he bought it for $775 so I feel they are being disingenuous with what they tell us they are selling our gear for
Did you consign guitars? The standard seems to be 15%-20%, and the kicker is that a retail store can get a lot more for the same instrument than in an in-person sale.
Oof. These stories are hard to hear, but it's good to know there are still some people with ethics out there, like "PHIL MCKNIGHT!" 😆 Love your content, Phil. Keep up the good work!
I made the mistake of trading a '67 SG Standard in 1989ish in against a Hamer Steve Stevens SS1. I got £450 for it.... There was no internet, no books in the UK I didn't know it's age, it was only a little over 20 years old. I walked past the shop(GM Music in Cardiff, still there) a few weeks later, it was in the window marked up as a "a '67 SG Standard £750" An expected mark up I suppose and an awful lot of money back then and the first time I found out it was a 60s instrument. Wish I'd kept it though.
@@knowyourgear2320 Sake can be an interesting and unique choice for Thanksgiving, though it's not a traditional beverage for this holiday. It can pair well with a variety of Thanksgiving foods, particularly those with umami flavors such as turkey, stuffing, and dishes featuring mushrooms or soy-based sauces. The delicate, slightly sweet taste of sake could complement the savory aspects of the meal. If you're planning to serve it, consider a lighter, chilled sake for a refreshing touch, or a richer, warmer sake for a more comforting experience. It ultimately depends on your guests' preferences and how adventurous they are with their holiday drinks!
The very truth in all businesses, them suckers will keep em wheels spinning. The best way as to manage will be as looking into each task getting as much info as possible.
Strangely enough I bought a second hand bass (I love it) from a very reputable shop for 500€. I was told almost immediately after by a person in the know that it was worth at least 1500€. He couldn't believe I had had such luck
I don't think it is as black and white as our own emotions tell us it is. Like lawn sales. You go and buy a box of cards and find one worth 30k, do you run back to the person and say you found the card? The dude took 2k because he wanted 500, and 2k is four times as much, and it was right there, and he was too lazy or just did not care enough to come back and grab your 5k. So as much as we view those people as suckers, that dude views them as lazy morons who will just go sell it too cheap down the road if he lets the deal get away. I think more people fall into his category than the sucker category. Basically a sucker by choice not by someone taking advantage of them. The blame, if we can call it that, lies between them both.
When I was moving out of Los Angeles a year-ago, I had some gear that I didn’t wanna pack or ship, plus I needed a few bucks. I called guitar center to see what they were paying for used gear and was told “At least 50% …” … what a load of bullshit. May as well have gone to a pawn-shop. Never again.
i have a lot of valuable gear because i bought it at a time when nobody else thought it was cool, but everyone does now. I wont sell it. But its good to know that if im ever in a bind, that stuff is worth 2-5x what i payed for it. Mostly guitars from the 2000s. I dont need 3 minutes of apology for you to say youre not like me. There are like 50 channels I follow that "do more with less gear" but paradoxically buy expensive gear the second they can afford it. Nobody cares. Recording studios also develop little "philosophies" early on that develop into wasting a significant amount of time and money justifying by the time they get well known.
That’s not surprising. For years I worked in used record stores everyone is convinced their record collection is worth a lot of money and usually it was a lot nothing
With all resources available most people know that value and there's very few that do not. Stores can lose everything by ripping off the customer in todays transactional world with bad customer reviews and word of mouth. It's best to remain fair and honest...🤔
I have a 64 strat my parents gave me for xmas yrs ago they have since passed away I got the guitar when I was 14 at the time im 59 now I have several guitars but the guitar that means most is my 64 strat ,my wife wants me to sell it and maybe use the money to pay on our house we are very close to paying it off I think its in the range of 20k for a payoff, I know my strats worth around 15 to 20k ive had it apraised for that amount , I know what the guitar is worth I could never sell it I cant its who got it for me and all the yrs Ive had it I still play it ,I think when people low ball people its kinda crapy to say the least if a person doesnt know I would let them know and they could go from there I couldnt do that to someone
It's great to finish off the mortgage on a house, but, for us mortals a decent 60s Strat is completely out of reach now.Add to that your late parents got you , what was a great guitar even then, and you still play it, I think your wife should show a bit of patience. Wouldn't it be nice to have the house paid off and still have a superb early Strat?
@@MisterBurtonshaw oh dont worry I would never sell it ,its not about the money and I still play it daily I have a pretty nice charvel and my strat just feels better to play I guess it wore into my touch or something know what I mean, take it easy and stay safe
I sold a Stevie Ray Vaughan guitar almost a year ago for 900 euro in Holland, when i came back to buy another guitar i was getting crazy...... they asked 2299 euro for the same guitar! This world is mad! What about you? 🤢
Some people are addicted to money, it's like a drug to them. The more money they have, the more powerful they feel. Money can be so ugly when it comes to those people. Ive seen business owners fight like wild dogs for nickels and dimes. I see money as maybe potential opportunity but it doesn't run my life.
I have stories , but another hint Do not leave someone alone with gear to "try it out" Had someone pull wires in the back of a Super Reverb and try to get a deal Brought it back to my tech , and he warned that my kids should not be around these He assumed it to be them as he just worked on it for me to sell it And was afraid they did it and the hazard this posed Well , i then realized what happened D O O H
Several years ago an elderly man brought a guitar into the local music store. He asked what it was worth. The guitar tech and salesman looked at each other. “Hold on” the sales man said. He called Martin guitars and described what the man had brought in then took some photos and emailed them to the rep. Turns out it was a 1936 or 1937 D-28. The guy at Martin told him to call his insurance company and get it insured for at least $90,000. That whole 30 minutes was pretty wild.
Sounds like what Gibson will be charging in 5 years.
Guitar Center offered $4000 for my family's 1927 martin
@@1983electricDoes the whole family get together and play it at the same time? I know that's not what you meant but that's the picture that popped up in my head and it was rather funny 😂
@@darksu6947 Family meaning that it belonged to my Great-Grandfather and has been passed down.
@@1983electric I was pretty sure you meant something along those lines but thanks for the clarification. The best sounding guitar I've ever played is a Martin HD-28 LSV. It's modeled after the guitar Clarence White played. I think Tony Rice ended up with the original. I've never heard anything that even comes close. If you ever see one, sit down and play it, it'll be worth your time.
I live in middle TN and there's only 1 music store in the closest town, besides driving an hour and half to Nashville or Knoxville. They've been known as doing some shady things. Once there was an electronic drum kit that was $400 on Musicians Friend and they were buying from MF and reselling them for $1000. My wife's boss had a Gold Tone banjo her dad had gave her, had been taking banjo lessons for awhile from them. She decided she wanted to sell the banjo. The guy she had been taking lessons from there told her it was worth $300 and the store would buy it. She had my wife ask me because she felt that wasn't right. Me not knowing banjos took to a reputable luthier and it was worth about $1800 used. I sold it for her for $1600. My church needed a p.a. system put in, they asked me what they needed. I told them I would look and give them an estimate but to be fair, they should ask that store for an estimate too. They showed their estimate and list of gear. It had a home stereo amplifier for the power amp, home stereo speakers etc, a 32 channel ipad mixer etc etc and the quote was $20,000. Our church has no band but is a large church, with cables 15" speakers, wireless mics, 16 channel board, a real p.a. amp etc etc for $6000. My wife's uncle had a 1970 Gibson J50 Deluxe. He took to them to have it restrung. They told him the bracing was broke and they could fix it but it was only worth about $250-300 like it was. $700 repair. He called me from the store I told him to bring it to me, I took to my luthier and the guitar had no bracing issues at all. They restrung it, polished frets with setup etc for $40. Told him it was easily a $1500 guitar as is. I could go on and on
I worked at a mom and pop shop - an old lady brought in a 50's strat. The shop did her right and she was very surprised.
She was lucky or maybe she knew what she had. A lot of places would have ripped her off.
@@rustyhighlander786 she was pretty clueless. Very old and very sweet.
It happens in every field of antiques and collectibles. One example that comes to mind is the case of the militaria dealers and appraisers for Antiques Roadshow who ripped off the descendant of Confederate General George E. Pickett, purchasing his sword and memorabilia for $80,000 only to flip it for $800,000 to a collector. The family sued and got an $800K judgement from a jury.
We have places like that over here in England. Family will lose a grandad and sell his medals to these places for pennies. The place then puts them in auction and makes a mint.
There is more than that to Pickett trial. There was a fraud in that the buyer, Pritchard, claimed to represent the City of Harrisburg in the establishment of a civil war museum, which was not true. Pritchard sold the Pickett items to the City after he misrepresented the appraised value to the seller. He diid not just make a low ball offer, (that is not illegal) he misrepresented his appraisal claiming that he was acting for someone else. That was the fraud.
Selling low without knowledge of true value, without more, does not entitle the remorseful seller to recover. If your ancestor is a civil war historical person, get an independent appraisal, or two, before selling his memorabilia…it’s just common sense.
@@Fl4ppers -- The people who work on Antiques Roadshow in the UK aren't allowed to buy stuff that's brought in for appraisal though.
@@twatmunro Same for the one in the US. An appraiser who had been on once was busted for fraud and now everything he ever did is apparently AR's fault.
But the silver lining is the descendents of a horrible human being got to profit from their ancestors notoriety as a horrible human being.
Coming up on a great deal isn't a crime. But if you knowingly lie to someone to get a better deal, it can criminal fraud. A felony
And in the case of the music store owner who gave the lady 150 bucks for a $14,000 guitar, he just plain out ripped her off.
I mean did anyone really make her sell it? Anyone selling anything should do some research in my opinion and vice versa @@216trixie
@@216trixie Agreed.
You are an honest man. Your honor is worth more than the money that you would have made.
Pawn Shops are the worst. Several years ago I took my USA Gibson SG and gig bag I bought from Sweetwater and Fender amp (the model name escapes me…the cheap modeling amp they did) to a pawn shop to see what I could get for it. My wife had been in the hospital and I missed work to be with her so I needed money to pay some bills and stuff. The guitar new was about 1500 and the amp was about 250. Both in mint condition. I knew how pawn shops worked so I decided that if they offered me anything close to 1200 for both, I’d take it.
The guy asked me what I was trying to get out of it but I know that trick and told him I was just looking to see how much they could give me. So he looked the stuff over and offered me 250 bucks for both. He told me that the guitar was a fake and that the amp had electrical issues. I assured him that the guitar was NOT a fake and that the amp played perfectly an hour before and asked if it had been plugged in correctly. So he got all offended and said that he’d been doing this for 20 years and can spot a fake 100 yards away and that he’s more than capable of plugging up an amp correctly and the best he’d offer was 300 or leave it. So I politely reached over to where the amp was plugged up and shocker it wasn’t plugged in all the way. So then I reached into my back pocket and grabbed the receipt from sweetwater and slid it to him. He looked down at it, saw that he was wrong, slid it back to me and then said that it could be a fake receipt. I sssured him it wasn’t and told him no thanks. Before I walked out he asked if 400 would do it. I didn’t even answer him. And left.
I work at a pawn shop with an excellent reputation. We try to give the best assessment that we can. We try to get comparables of SOLD guitars. We then explain to the customers how we determine the price. Our offer is always going to be HALF of what we sell it for. This goes all of the items that we sell. With the advent of online reviews, our business can be ruined with a few bad reviews. We prefer if an item is authentic and valuable and if we cannot take an item, we try to advise the seller how and where to sell. Personally, I would not work at another pawn shop as I know my boss is fair and honest. I cannot speak on other stores but we are never looking to ripoff a customer. In your situation, you can reasonably assume that a new $1500 guitar and $250 Amp would sell for 50% of that price. We would offer 50% of the used selling price. There are exceptions but that is a general rule.
Hope you left a review and told everyone else the guy is an evil, lying demon. Pawn shop employees are just below tow truck drivers.
Pawn shops in general offer about 20-25% of worth but never higher. They're scummy to deal with!
Their offer was ridiculous, but expecting $1200 is not realistic either. That would be about right for a private sale, but not to a store.
@ oh I know. I wasn’t expecting that much. Hoping, really.
I love to support small local businesses, but to be honest this is why I'd rather sell gear to a big outfit. With the big chain store it's not personal to the person you're dealing with and while they might make mistakes sometimes it's not their money and they don't get to "score" if they screw you over. Unless you are an absolute expert on what you're selling or you have a truly excellent relationship with the owner of the store you never know for sure if they're shooting straight with you. Either way, nowadays the internet is your friend before selling anything.
Pretty sure the same guy (let's call him Bob), bought matching Lloyd Loar mandola and mandolin from an elderly Mexican woman who's husband played them in an orchestra in Phoenix. He paid her $250.00 for the pair. The mandolin alone was probably worth $250,000. I bought a late 60's Martin from him with the agreement that he provide a hard shell case. Long story short I had to sue him in small claims court after 10 weeks of trying to get him to provide me a case. The guy was a theif.
Back in the early 80's my brother who was living in Inverness Scotland saw an ad. for a Les Paul custom for £250. He went to see it and it was a Les Paul switch master with the 1,2 3, all switch. The only one I've ever seen was played by John Miles and he reckoned it was his which was stolen. He didn't buy it and God knows where it is now. Probably one of the rarest Les Paul's which you can see in videos of him playing it.
Phil, you are a man with morals and integrity and I commend you for that.
Guitar Store Horror Stories? I was sure this would be an episode dedicated to Ed Roman.
Has Phil ever mentioned Ed? That guy was..... WILD. His website alone was.... intense.
I remember well, the online Ed Roman rants. He HATED the internet, because sellers could actually research the true value and rarity of vintage instruments. If there is a guitar hell, Ed Roman is taking it in the input jack right now.
He was more wild in person….
Skeezy people.
@ VMS….. peculiar though, if it wasn’t for him and ECMM, there wouldn’t have been the accessibility to as much quality gear in Danbury and the surrounding areas
I’ve always liked listening to you talk. After this video, I like it even more. I really identify with you and I appreciate your values.
I had a guy who had traded a car for a limited edition Kirk Hamett ESP. He actually thought it was stolen and he had gotten a good deal. It was a counterfeit. That was a really hard phone call and discussion.
I knew a guy who bought a small music store around 20 years ago. He told me a kid came in with a mid 60's fender stratocaster and, if i remember correctly, a 70's yamaha acoustic. He gave him 300 dollars for both. I don't know what happened after that, but the business ended up folding eventually.
Karma
Phil, thanks for being an honest and ethical businessman. It matters, and it matters a lot. A person that's not a player, selling the instrument for cash or a musician hobbyist is only asking for a fair deal, and not get taken. That's true of a professional musician as well, as only the elite make enough money to not care what they pay or receive for a sale. For every "I bought an $8000 guitar for $450" story, there are going to be many cases where the guitar that they are sure is worth $2000 is only worth $600. When you're an honest party on the true value of a valuable guitar, your business will build the reputation on that regular resale as well, and people will want to patronize you, rather than treat your shop as a place of last resort.
It's certainly the case that the seller always benefits by doing their research, but I think it's hard and will be increasingly hard for people to do that. In a world of social media, there are a lot of people who don't know what they're looking at, and really don't know what it's worth. If you follow repair forums, it's pretty clear that some people exist on these boards to say "fill the crack with super glue" no matter what the level of damage is...
This guy absolutely stole that instrument and its value from that lady.
I have bought stuff from customers that walked in, bought it for my own use…….but I ALWAYS make sure they know the full value of what they have. If not, I’m STEALING, literally.
I appreciate watching this. There are pieces of gear I regret selling, but none of them were huge losses, nor were they ever to guitar stores because I understand the re-sale issue.
There was a pawn shop here in Southampton in England very much like that place. He'd often buy Martin's and Gobsons off some rich Uni kid who had no idea of the value. But he wouldnt sell those in the window, he'd flip them privately and not declare it a part of the business. He was also a landlord and would take these things as rental payment.
The kind of "trade" you find most scumbags.
God bless you Phil ! This Thanksgiving I am thankful that there are good people like you. Best of everything to you and your family ❤
Shady manager told a lady her 50's les paul was worth 500$ to the store but he would buy it off her for 1000$. For himself, not for the store. I was luckily there that day, got wind of it, and while he was walking to his bank to grab cash, i called her, informed her of what was going on. Owner refused to fire him and acted like i was in the wrong...
My father owned 2 music stores. I was the purchasing manager at both and also taught trumpet lessons. He was being paid nearly double what i was being paid. They fired me a few weeks later without pay.
They are now toy stores. And that manager tried to snake the lease out from my dad. 🤣
My dad is a pos
I'm a flipper and always pay fair prices for the stuff I buy. I was buying Christmas gifts on Craigslist for my neighbors and the lady had a bunch of other stuff. She was the apartment manager and was helping a resident sell off their father's stuff who had died recently. A guitar case was there and it was a 1979 Strat. Refinished to natural and in rough shape, but I asked the price and she said $60! I told her that I couldn't pay that but would give her $800! She couldn't believe it and I went out to get the cash, got the guitar and sold it for around $1300. I've sold a bunch of those over the years and know what they're really worth. I was lucky she didn't try to look it up and see the crazy prices people are asking for them!
Good dude 👍🏻
" I was lucky she didn't try to look it up and see the crazy prices people are asking for them!" So, that's just a matter of degree. You knew it was worth a lot more than she imagined. It was still an unequal transaction between an expert and an ignorant person, aka a mark. A windfall for you, but that extra $500 could have meant a lot for her. The only times I've made a bunch of money on instruments has been when I've owned the instrument for years as the value appreciated. Flippers can drive the prices of instruments way beyond reason. One flipper in Evergreen Colorado single handedly started the explosion of the prices of Alembic basses. You see the same thing in real estate. Now private equity firms are getting into the act and are buying up all the properties for sale and renting them out at usurious prices and neglecting the upkeep. How long before they run the guitar flipping business, too?
I used to frequent yard sales Flea Markets etc long before the internet. I came across a lot of guitars that IMO were being sold well below what they were worth and I would try and educate the sellers because I was not going to rip someone off. I went to a yardsale I saw advertised in the local Want Ads classifieds. While there I saw an old Fender case leaning on the wall I picked it up laid it down on the ground opened it and saw a Pre CBS strat in like new condition. I asked what they wanted and they said $75.00! This was in the early 80s and the couple selling it was in their late 60s. The story about the guitar was it was in a closet in the house when they bought it they held on to it thinking the owner would call looking for it. They eventually forgot about it until they were selling their house to retire in Fl. I told them it was worth a lot more and they just didn't care. I had to force them to take all the cash I had and even then it was only a fraction of what it was worth.
I love hearing stories like this. Finding old/rare guitars in attics or basements.
This is exactly the right attitude to have Phil.
There’s enough in the world for everyone to be happy and comfortable, we don’t need to walk over others to be ‘successful’.
As a buyer I always offer what I believe to be fair (even if it’s the asking price or higher) and I make that clear, I don’t lowball someone to work up to a price I’m happy with. If there’s a difference of opinion on the price then there’s no deal, so be it. I’ve even told a seller they were selling a book for $30 that’s worth $120.
As a seller I always list at a fair price that can handle a 10-15% negotiation depending on circumstances. I don’t play games with people, whether initiated be me or the other party. I often pick my buyers, for example I list something at $200, buyer A offers $150 and mucks around a bit. Buyer B is happy to pay $200 but is upfront about needing a couple of days to pay. I sell to buyer B with a discount to maybe $170.
The reasoning is the principle but also the amount of work it would’ve taken to get buyer A to get to a deal and if I would have had to compromise anyway might as well do it with an honest customer who could likely be a return customer for years to come and they tell their mates.
ethics are rarer than pink unicorns
Especially with "Vintage" Guitar dealers who are solely responsible for the outlandish prices they put on instruments & for the prices they offer for a used instrument as they try to "steal it from the customer!
In my opinion, vintage guitar dealers are right up there with used car salesmen, ambulance chasing attorneys & criminal defense attorneys!!!!
Good insight Phil, thanks!
Guitar Center is horrific. They are the worst staffed store on Earth. Rude, short, not helpful at all.
I got thrown out of several pawn shops as a teenager for interrupting lop-sided deals. The first time it happened was the pawn shop where I had bought my first few POS guitars. The guy was wrangling for $100 on a guitar that was easily worth $500. After I walked to the counter and told him the mistake he was about to make of course the counter guy was livid and unceremoniously tossed me out loudly.
So a minute later the would be sucker met me outside asking if I'd give him $500 for it! I was like "Dude, I don't have that kind of cash!" So... he headed back inside! I guess like my dear ol' Da' always used to say "50% of something is better than 100% of nothing!" Haha!
Good for you.
Man I wish I knew that store owner so I could avoid him at all costs.
He said the guy is dead now. I don't think you are going to run into him. Hopefully not any time soon 😬
@@williamthomas4125 He probably died of greed. I really hate people ripping others off.
I have a couple of bits of gear that are going to fall into the "vintage" category in a few years or are already there. One is an early 1990s Peavey Bravo 112. Was it a super expensive amp when it was new? No, it was maybe $300, $400. They still go for about that much. The Bravo was a 12AX7 and EL84 tube amp with a tube driven spring reverb tank. I can see that amp becoming pretty valuable sometime in my lifetime. Thing is-that's my amp. It's got a clean channel, a dirty channel, and a switch that puts it into a high gain mode. It's all tube, it's got reverb, it's got a cabinet out, and it has an effects loop. In other words, it will do just about anything you can ask a combo tube amp to do. It's going to remain being my amp even if Bravos start selling for $1500. I'd only sell something if it became valuable if I had no attachment to it. And if I had no attachment to it, I probably wouldn't keep it long enough for it to become valuable.
Okay
That amp is never going to become valuable.
If you've ever worked in sales... you know.
It why I sold used cars for only a short while. It can be brutal.
I repair guitars as a bit of a hobby so I am always hitting local pawn shops and GC and local shops for high quality potential projects. Most recent find a 000-28 Martin in need of some love. 4-5 hours later looks and plays as sweet as ever. Joined the herd where she will stay until she is traded. I don't bother with instruments not worthy of good trade value when restored. Mostly American and some Japanese and Korean instruments are worth it depending on the work level required. I have repaired and resold a number of them but I look at it as a RESCUE, not a flip. as it is in good playable order when I pass it on.
Yes
@ratwynd- you are awesome
I needed a case and brought a 68 gibson to the local store and the guy asked if id be interested in selling it. I asked how much and he says $200. I laughed and left. It shows what a rip they are.
Happy Thanksgiving Phil & Shauna - thank you for everything!
I sold my 1969 tele birds eye neck guitar and, always regretted it.
I'm thinking that may've happened with my dad. In the early nineties, he had sold his '54 Fender Strat, and the Fender tweed amp. He probably had some GAS ( gear acquisition syndrome ) sometime after, and for a while.
A guitar flipper is basically a commodity broker.
I don’t do it for profit, i flip guitars to get better guitars.
@Ottophil that's not the kind he's talking about.
@ guitars are a commodity. Not just expensive ones.
2 years ago i found a squier tele for 100 bucks, and recently sold it for 260, usually i buy and sell american guitars, but id sell alot more squiers if i could pull those numbers again
@Ottophil that is profit. Not that there's anything wrong with it. The hate for guitar flippers is crazy
@@nick_ashley
Personally, I have more hate for concert ticket flippers aka “authorized resellers”.
I've been buying and selling guitars for fifty five years, I commend you for being honest. I no longer buy or sell, but there are a lot of dishonest people out there in the business. I always tell people to educate their self buy looking at all of the resources that are available today on the internet and elsewhere. I'm not a collector and what I think is a shame is the price by age and brand that is going on out there, I've played and seen a lot of big name guitars that are considered vintage that sound and play like crap. Does this make them worth big bucks? Guitars were made to be played. Not collected.
I love flipping gear, it’s how I pay for my hobbies. I don’t make hundreds of percent on stuff, but if I see someone asking a bit low on price on swap forums/sites I’ll buy it, refurb/clean and resell. It’s also a great way to learn about new gear and try out stuff you might not have otherwise checked out. I don’t just flip problems, I fully test everything.
THANK YOU, wish more people were honest. As you described repeatedly, with honesty there is still room for each person in sale ( be it 2, 3, 4 individuals) to prosper comfortably. I love music and gear. I dispise 7 of 10 people I've attempted business with, both in New and used music equipment. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your ❤
I subscribed because you seem like a good dude. Its crazy how music stores and pawn shops take advantage of people when they obviously need the money.
There is an old saying that comes to mind.
You can sheer a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once.
in Sacramento a lady was cleaning up her uncles house he had passed away he had some old saxophones so she took them in and they bought them then she found a flying V sitting in the corner so she took that down and they said they don't buy old guitars so she took it to GC and asked for $500 they said it's worth more so take it home and let us make a phone call so they contacted Joe Bonamasa then he came to the store she brought it in well it was a 58 flying V I don't know what he paid but it was a fair deal they could of stole it for $500 so good on GC they aren't always honest from my experience with them so do your homework before you sale it
@rayfabris2512 - cool story!
I worked at a music store in the UK for a while. Heard a story that a man came in and said, I have this strat I don’t know what it’s worth would you buy it?
The guys in the store looked at it and realised it appeared to be a mint original early 70’s strat. They basically said, ‘we can’t give you an accurate value on this as we don’t sell vintage its not our area of expertise - we don’t wanna rip you off by accident go get it appraised properly and see what you can get private sale or with a vintage specialist dealer’
he came back several months later and showed us that the guitar had appraised and it had sold for nearly £10k at auction (about $12k)
while the store had absolutely lost out on a potential sale and could have ‘scammed’ the guy out of a beautiful instrument and then flipped it for a profit - the risk to the stores reputation wasn’t worth it and the fact they admitted they didn’t know enough to appraise a vintage instrument really spoke to the integrity of the individuals who worked there.
stories like the ones in this video shows how important it is to find good people to do business with and do your own research with anything you’re selling, especially vintage music gear.
Geez... if I could get a few bucks more than I paid for a guitar, I would be happy. As long as my wife doesn't know what I paid for it in the first place!
"If you put two greedy people together, the stupid one will get it really bad." Phil McNight! Good saying, I'm going to use that one!
I’ve never hated someone I don’t know so much.
There’s a lot of very naive people in the world which is why scammers do so well in general and there should be some personal responsibility in being more worldly wise… but that doesn’t mean it’s right to take advantage of them. I assume these people would be pretty unhappy if it was their grandma that was getting ripped off. If someone is asking 250 for a 14k guitar, maybe you don’t have to tell the whole truth, but bartering them down from 250 is wild. A guitar is only a 14k guitar if someone gives you 14k for it - if you offer 10k for it, that’s a 10k risk you’ve taken
I love at the end, where you do the cut away, and the guitar hanging on the wall changes.😁
Guitar Center ripped me off severely on a trade in back in the 90's.
Must have been quite a rip off since they didn't peddle in used gear until the mid 2000's.
@@StevenSimpson-it5mv Huh? I worked at GC in 2000 and used gear was the biggest money maker they had. Our state made us wait 60 days before we could put used stuff on the floor and half of our warehouse was used gear.
@@StevenSimpson-it5mv Wow, someone more confused than I was when I made that trade! The Roland GR-1 is a guitar synthesizer that was manufactured by Roland Corporation. It was introduced in 1992. I got one of the first 10 in the TC area. Store managers could make trades for new equipment, IN THE 1990's!!!
@@robertwainscott9437 Very true, Robert: Steve Simpsons's an idiot, talking out his butt. I had a pro account and we traded ALL THE TIME.
Great stories. I sold expensive HiFi, I have similar stories to tell. We too took in trades but didnt buy used equipment out right. That policy got really tough when a customer who spent six figures with us died and their family wanted us to buy back their equipment. That said, being an honest retailer does not benefit your bottom line, but it does help you sleep at night. Customer assume you are dishonest, so being honest at a time when you could otherwise screw them over only makes the majority of customers even more wary of you.
The Flipper who bought a les paul standard 1959 off of " radio tradeo... in Ontario Cn. Is the limit !!! His wife heard the deal off radio station, & prolly everyone thought it was a reissue for 2000 bucks (Canadian)... so he went bought it from a elderly couple only ownet and sold it in N.Y.C. (webuyguitars) for 400 K !!!! This is not that long ago , crazy absolutely no soul ....
I worked for this store Phil is talking about for a year in the early 2000s. It’s true. It’s all true.
What is the name of the store?
Was it ed Roman's store?
I really like what you said about how much better doing trades only is, PLUS then the business still stays with you of course :)
The best thing is be honest with people, i have gotten so much great stuff from people who just needed the money and wanted the stuff to go to someone who would use it and give it a good home. Hell even offered more than asking if it's a good jem. Example, bassman cabinet from 60s, free from a church, i donated a bit for it, they were throwing it away. Ovation cabs, they were so cheap, 20 for two, i gave them 20 each and use them a ton, they are pretty rare to find and sound great, worth it. Or guitar store has huge sale, get a bass for 45% off, still getting good deal but on the other side where yea your not getting it basically free but for half price it not something to complain about
I have come to learn that everyone has a fate. You can try to help people, but they are meant to be how they are. You can be honest but you don't have to go nuts. Best to usually not say much. People frankly don't even want you to educate them. Most people get insulted. Simply smile and offer what you think is a fair or even good price for YOU. You are not their parent or guardian. Simply tell them what you are willing to pay them. Period. It can be higher than their ask or lower. No explanation is needed. You are not their researcher. You are the professional buyer. They can assume it's relative value if they like but again, this is on them. Otherwise, you can end up getting the short end of the stick. Sure- be a good, ethical person but just do your job and nothing more.
When I was a 17 yr old teenager I bought my first real guitar from an old band man in the next little town... it was just a cool FENDER!!! guitar and I was in heaven. This was back in the very early 80s and I paid 100 for it. I remember taking it apart - I was one of those kids - and on the neck end it was written in pencil 04/59. That meant nothing to me at the time. Anyway... I sold it to a music store in the nearest city for the same money a couple of years later. It was a Butterscotch Tele. Did the music store owner know it was worth a lot more or was it even worth a lot more back then? I do not know.
I personally was in a small shop in Alabama and watched a sad mentally challenged guy walk in with 3 mandolins. One was a Gibson, another 2 with brand names that l can’t remember right now but they were branded. I’m standing right next to the guy and looking over everything and the poor fella says l have to have at least $60. The shop owner says … ok can do that. I couldn’t believe it. Me and the shop owner looked at each other and he knew that l know he’s totally taking advantage of the guy. I gave him a smirk and walked out.
The question one must ask themselves when dealing with guitar dealers, or any dealer, really: Do they care more about the guitars and the line of work they are in? Or, do they care more about money, to the extent that the guitars (or whatever they are selling) are simply a means to an end. The end being money.
I once knew a irascible motorcycle shop owner who for 60 years relished the attention brought to light by being at the heart of several urban legends. He would loudly admit the most off-putting stories imaginable were all true. After he passed away it came to light he was actually the opposite of what image was and all the legendary stories did not originate from, nor were actually about him. I prefer to think these stories of some people taking advantage of others are mostly urban legends. Yep, yep, yep.
I believe that Karma will catch up with people like that eventually.
I use a large nation instrument store to sell my used instruments. I get more money than I would selling locally and do not have to worry about after sale problems. I can also avoid my habitual "Buy high - sell low" problem.
Pawn shops are notorious for undervaluing your instrument, we are lucky in Canada to have a company called Long And Mcquade, they will basically give credit to anyone who walks in the door, and they have started many musical careers.
The only Martin OM 45 deluxe I
ever saw was "stolen" from a
widow who remembered her
husband bought it for $350 in
the early 30s (a lot of dough back
then) in installments I guess, but
he played in a big band. They gave
her the $350 without considering
the current equivalent and sold it
for $10.000. (worth more than 10
times that now). I was shocked
but I got the same excuses: she
left happy, she would resent us
making two grand commission if
she knew etc. A young guy in 2024
can can do research, a recently
widowed elderly black lady 40yrs
ago was taken advantage of with
no mercy. The Pope said his dearly
beloved granny taught him this as
a child: "Remember, a shroud has no pockets". Regardless of your
beliefs, think about it.😢❤
When u buy a guitar from a recognized store, they should tell u Exactly what ur buying! When u buy online or from a “flipper”, there is no assurance what ur actually getting. Unless there’s actual provenance in the records.
Like the ownership certificates that come with Fenders & Gibbons.
I could never do that to somebody. I feel Karma would be right around the corner, (and it usually is).
Integrity is invaluable.
0:18 Honest people don't bother keeping close track of what they said in the past. It saves space for better ideas.💡
Why did the guy take 2k for the SG when Phil said he'd give him 4?
Wondered that myself
Phil explained that in the video, you obviously didn't hear that part. .. the collectable guitar buyer told the guitar owner that Phil had rang him to say he done more research and it wasn't worth as much as he thought it was originally... basically lied to the seller. Thats why the seller took the low offer.
@@AjAllenFijiVacationsCorrect.
@@AjAllenFijiVacationswhat a bunch of snakes.
Hey Phil I recently went to my local GC to trade my ‘21 Dingwall DRoc standard bass (case queen) for a used Fender American ultra jazz bass . The online comps of its value were comparable . I asked the manager when I arrived if they did straight trades and he said yes (then he left the sales floor) the salesperson looked at my bass denied it (all the salesmen & customers were agog on how clean the bass was ) he entered the info in his computer to generate a price but nothing came up so he called the store in Hollywood & they quoted him that they would sell my bass for 1,599 and he could offer me a grand take it or leave it . I said well I’m looking to do a straight trade for the Fender & he said he couldn’t do that & it doesn’t work that way . I said I know the way retail works but I also know that bass has been sitting fir at least 3 months & if you’re selling the bass fir 10 cheaper than what you would sell my dingwall for than that means you roughly bought the fender fir the sane price you’re offering for my dingwall so what’s the issue & he said well it just doesn’t work that way (yes I understand overhead rent salary etc) but the deal was still a fair deal in my opinion. . I wasn’t that person that demanded to talk to the manager . I said politely I’m in no rush to sell my bass for that much of a loss & I’d hold on to it . Am I in the wrong here ? What am I missing ? Oh I sold them a MIM fender a few months prior for about $375 they said they were selling it for $699 & I know the guy who bought it for. Them & he told me he bought it for $775 so I feel they are being disingenuous with what they tell us they are selling our gear for
11 minutes into this you explained the same thing as why I couldn’t sell Amway products.
Ah Amway products were great. The Pyramid effect to make money. The products sold themselves practically.
Did you consign guitars? The standard seems to be 15%-20%, and the kicker is that a retail store can get a lot more for the same instrument than in an in-person sale.
Oof. These stories are hard to hear, but it's good to know there are still some people with ethics out there, like "PHIL MCKNIGHT!" 😆
Love your content, Phil. Keep up the good work!
I made the mistake of trading a '67 SG Standard in 1989ish in against a Hamer Steve Stevens SS1. I got £450 for it.... There was no internet, no books in the UK I didn't know it's age, it was only a little over 20 years old. I walked past the shop(GM Music in Cardiff, still there) a few weeks later, it was in the window marked up as a "a '67 SG Standard £750" An expected mark up I suppose and an awful lot of money back then and the first time I found out it was a 60s instrument. Wish I'd kept it though.
I bought a 60s melody maker for 50 bucks like 3 years ago, I didn't even know what it was until i got home and checked pots
Happy Thanksgiving!! 🦃
Happy Thanksgiving!
@@knowyourgear2320 Sake can be an interesting and unique choice for Thanksgiving, though it's not a traditional beverage for this holiday. It can pair well with a variety of Thanksgiving foods, particularly those with umami flavors such as turkey, stuffing, and dishes featuring mushrooms or soy-based sauces. The delicate, slightly sweet taste of sake could complement the savory aspects of the meal. If you're planning to serve it, consider a lighter, chilled sake for a refreshing touch, or a richer, warmer sake for a more comforting experience. It ultimately depends on your guests' preferences and how adventurous they are with their holiday drinks!
Backatcha! Eat well and watch a game or whatever your thing is.
I am waiting for my Engl Fireball 25 to get here tomorrow..but I will eat way more than I should very soon. @@geraldhenrickson7472
When used car salesmen moves to guitars…
Great stories. I like this side of your channel.
The very truth in all businesses, them suckers will keep em wheels spinning.
The best way as to manage will be as looking into each task getting as much info as possible.
Strangely enough I bought a second hand bass (I love it) from a very reputable shop for 500€. I was told almost immediately after by a person in the know that it was worth at least 1500€. He couldn't believe I had had such luck
It’s ok to not be a fence sitter Phil. Sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade. If people get upset well as the saying goes “if the shoe fits…”
I don't think it is as black and white as our own emotions tell us it is. Like lawn sales. You go and buy a box of cards and find one worth 30k, do you run back to the person and say you found the card?
The dude took 2k because he wanted 500, and 2k is four times as much, and it was right there, and he was too lazy or just did not care enough to come back and grab your 5k.
So as much as we view those people as suckers, that dude views them as lazy morons who will just go sell it too cheap down the road if he lets the deal get away.
I think more people fall into his category than the sucker category. Basically a sucker by choice not by someone taking advantage of them. The blame, if we can call it that, lies between them both.
When I was moving out of Los Angeles a year-ago, I had some gear that I didn’t wanna pack or ship, plus I needed a few bucks.
I called guitar center to see what they were paying for used gear and was told “At least 50% …” … what a load of bullshit.
May as well have gone to a pawn-shop. Never again.
Everything that has the word "flipping" in it is morally wrong.
I take it you’re not a fan of gymnastics?
@JamesJessenfedden more a fan of female gymnasts...
@@maxnits9556 Most of them are 15……
Ya, thanks for the confirmation. I knew McDonalds was evil ... especially those guys in the back.
No matter what the business people should not be taken advantage of by telling them lies.
People give Guitar Center hell, but they are going to give you the best deal that I have seen from any "store".
I find better deals on Sweetwater and Musicians Friend.
i have a lot of valuable gear because i bought it at a time when nobody else thought it was cool, but everyone does now. I wont sell it. But its good to know that if im ever in a bind, that stuff is worth 2-5x what i payed for it. Mostly guitars from the 2000s. I dont need 3 minutes of apology for you to say youre not like me. There are like 50 channels I follow that "do more with less gear" but paradoxically buy expensive gear the second they can afford it. Nobody cares. Recording studios also develop little "philosophies" early on that develop into wasting a significant amount of time and money justifying by the time they get well known.
That’s not surprising. For years I worked in used record stores everyone is convinced their record collection is worth a lot of money and usually it was a lot nothing
Great video. Thought provoking.
With all resources available most people know that value and there's very few that do not. Stores can lose everything by ripping off the customer in todays transactional world with bad customer reviews and word of mouth. It's best to remain fair and honest...🤔
I have a 64 strat my parents gave me for xmas yrs ago they have since passed away I got the guitar when I was 14 at the time im 59 now I have several guitars but the guitar that means most is my 64 strat ,my wife wants me to sell it and maybe use the money to pay on our house we are very close to paying it off I think its in the range of 20k for a payoff, I know my strats worth around 15 to 20k ive had it apraised for that amount ,
I know what the guitar is worth I could never sell it I cant its who got it for me and all the yrs Ive had it I still play it ,I think when people low ball people its kinda crapy to say the least if a person doesnt know I would let them know and they could go from there I couldnt do that to someone
It's great to finish off the mortgage on a house, but, for us mortals a decent 60s Strat is completely out of reach now.Add to that your late parents got you , what was a great guitar even then, and you still play it, I think your wife should show a bit of patience. Wouldn't it be nice to have the house paid off and still have a superb early Strat?
Don’t sell the guitar,man,you’ll regret it,tell your wife to sell some of her stuff.
@MisterBurtonshaw yeah I would never in a million yrs sell its not about the money anyway ,take it easy and stay safe
@@MisterBurtonshaw oh dont worry I would never sell it ,its not about the money and I still play it daily I have a pretty nice charvel and my strat just feels better to play I guess it wore into my touch or something know what I mean, take it easy and stay safe
No way brother, you'd regret it for the rest of your life.
The seller deserved to lose his shirt. He didn't go back to the guy who was honest with him after the other store lowballed him.
When I was 16, I bought a 54 Telecaster in a pawn shop for $30 cash. What comes around goes around.
He didn't have to tell her anything and just paid $250.
All these morality cops here would jump at chance to score a $14k guitar for $200 at a yard sale. Don't lie.
I sold a Stevie Ray Vaughan guitar almost a year ago for 900 euro in Holland, when i came back to buy another guitar i was getting crazy...... they asked 2299 euro for the same guitar! This world is mad! What about you? 🤢
i went to GC today, everyone looking at phone, just ingnored me, no 'hi welcome, well be right with you' or anything, so i left the store
Some people are addicted to money, it's like a drug to them. The more money they have, the more powerful they feel. Money can be so ugly when it comes to those people. Ive seen business owners fight like wild dogs for nickels and dimes. I see money as maybe potential opportunity but it doesn't run my life.
In the mid seventies, I sold a 63 Gibson reverse Firebird V to guitar center for 150 was i a sucker?
I have stories , but another hint
Do not leave someone alone with gear to "try it out"
Had someone pull wires in the back of a Super Reverb and try to get a deal
Brought it back to my tech , and he warned that my kids should not be around these
He assumed it to be them as he just worked on it for me to sell it
And was afraid they did it and the hazard this posed
Well , i then realized what happened
D O O H
Man. Integrity has gone out the back door.