How Did Voja Break Commander?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Let's discuss Voja, Jaws of the Conclave, one of the most notorious Commanders from this year. People say it's too powerful, but here's some of my thoughts!
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Since it seems alot of folks missed the point of the video: no, Voja didn't break the Commander format, no, Voja does not need to be banned, and it's an easy card to deal with.
I don't think Voja deserves a ban, but I think its emblematic of a larger problem with card design that has gotten increasingly worse in recent years which is cards that protect themselves serve as a wincon and a draw engine. Voja hits all three of those. And while yes, it costs 5 mana, the entire archetype of the deck is to play cheap mana dork elves to get him out earlier only for him to turn those mana dorks into lethal threats the next turn. There's a substantial difference between Voja on turn 5 or 6 and Voja on turn 3 or 4. If he comes down on turn 3 or 4 he is basically impossible to deal with unless you got a board wipe in your opening hand. The Ward 3 is particularly notable because most of the targeted removal spells in the format cost two or three mana, effectively meaning they cost 5/6 mana to remove him. Thus, the Voja player is playing mana dork elves and accelerates the turn he comes out, no one will have the mana to pay for a targeted removal spell and the ward cost. I think you neglected to mention this as a huge part of the problem with Voja.
I think the card represents one of the worst designs in recent memory. He's way too strong at most casual tables, but also not even remotely close to cEDH viable. He's this weird in between where you're 'at the wrong table' regardless of where you play him
I play Voja and it's treat number 1 as soon as it hits the board. I actually never won with her. Most players in my play groups have a lot of board whipes and/or counters. Even when I have a great board state with all the stax i can have, other 3 players usually gang on me and that is GG.
“Take the Voja player out before they have a chance to cast him” is hard advice to follow if he can consistently be dropped on turn 3 or 4. The Ward 3 is back breaking where they spend 5 mana on their commander and you might not even have enough mana to remove it immediately.
I agree with the boardwipe point. But voja can quickly outscale blasphemous act quite quickly when done right
Very true. I literally was editing this video when I realized Voja gives counters to itself, so it can easily get over 13 toughness.
And most of the creatures that synergize with it are 1 mana elves... Naya is one of the best recursion color sets. Let someone wipe the board, then the next turn, drop a Patch Up to get 3 elves back and then drop Eternal Witness to get Voja back to hand... you're back online within a turn or 2... and just as threatening... Bonus points for someone else giving up their turn, setting the entire table back against it, and giving the Voja player a juicy target to go after.
Maybe the problem is that wizards keeps putting ward on extremely pushed commanders that really shouldnt have it forcing players to resort to board wipes to handle threats efficiently is the problem. Maybe I don't want to blow the board up repeatedly and make games drag out longer than necessary all of the time.
One of the problems with Voja is that it abuses the multiplayer aspect of commander.
In 1v1 you can afford to spend resources trading with their elves and wolves that enable voja before it comes down. Can't afford to do that in multiplayer lest you fall behind the other two players.
Similarly, ward is stronger in commander than it is in 1v1; you cant afford to be the player that spends a card and 5 mana (ie your whole turn) to deal with Voja otherwise you put yourself too far behind the other players.
I play vs Voja in Brawl and its not problematic, but when I see it in commander, i know that i have a couple turns to find a sweeper or the game is just over.
Ward 3 is a huge problem. Voja would be fine without Ward.
I do think ward as a mechanic was not needed. Hexproof was strong enough, as was Shroud.
@@PlaneswalkerProject Ward is ok. However WOTC should not give every new legendary Ward. It's quite silly and it it makes a gap between new and old commanders. Also Ward 1 is a lot more reasonable than Ward 3 or 4. It's like they don't even play test anymore.
Voja doesn't deserve to get banned, but it is incredibly strong.
Most Voja players can comfortably get this down turn 3-4, with mana dorks.
Then it quickly becomes board wipe or bust.
My general take on Voja has less to do with its power in general, and more to do with the kinds of tables where we might see Voja. It's a very straightforward strategy that appeals to a wide audience of players. Voja really asks nothing of you to make itself good... It reminds me of Hullbreacher... Hullbreacher was not banned due to how powerful it was... it was banned because it found its way into decks in high quantities and got played at tables that weren't prepared to deal with it. It created unfun games that dragged on, or grinded the game to a halt. The reason Thassa's Oracle isn't banned is because unless you're honestly building around winning the game through that one combo, it honestly does very little in a "normal" commander game.
One comment here before mine was almost making fun of people, saying they need to "reevaluate their deckbuilding" , whereas the issue comes down to... Voja is extremely powerful for most tables. It's very much the kind of card that can force an arms race. Am I a "bad deckbuilder" because I prioritize spot removal for main threats and applying pressure to opponents who are going for their own W, and not including extra boardwipes that have to be timed correctly just to interact with this one commander... I don't believe so. Not every table HAS to be hyper optimized, and Voja just needs to not be played at those tables.
I am hoping the wider discussion around Voja moves from "This should be banned" to "Know your table if you're going to play a Voja deck."
Targeting ramp and mana reserves would be my go-to strategy if I’m not playing my one STAX deck. And any enablers that might give their stuff Haste or trample.
Earlier we had a Sheoldred (4 cmc) player sit at our casual table and asked to play. Instead of complaining about that choice, we all simply told the player that every single time that commander came out, it would be killed at instant speed, and they unsurprisingly lost that game. I think dealing with Voja should be very similar, if they want to bring that to the table, be ready to be the target before the game even begins. Dealing with it that way also makes that player less incentivized to play that commander in the future, which will lead to seeing it in less games
The problem is all the new edh babies. It’s great commander is so popular now but so many complain about interaction because hurrr I want everything to go with my commander. When you look back at normal casual commander back then 15 pieces or so of your deck was built with interaction. Caesars precon comes with what 5 or 6 board wipes. That’s old school Magic right there. 5-6 board wipes and 10 pieces of removal.
If you were already playing enough interaction, it really wasn't a problem . I feel like all it did was make people reevaluate their interaction in their deck
Other solutions not mentioned are to use uncounterable single-target removal. Either make your spells uncounterable via Boseiju, who shelters all/allosaurus shepard etc to ignore ward or cards such as void render. Some of these are generic staple cards that see play anyway.
Other more niche solutions are to plays auras without casting them or use cards like Szat's will. However only mono green can really complain about not having boardwipes in the 3-5 mana range. Even mono-blue has aetherize/evacuation/perplexing test.
You aren’t right
Voja is a cool commander, it’s just unfortunate that it loses to my uncommon commander Kutzil, I run a stax style deck and it’s hilarious to watch others reaction when casting things like ghostly prison. 😂
The fact that this card is even being discussed for a ban is wild to me. Yeah the card is good. It's a solid high power agro commander which is honestly refreshing with how often high power can just devolve to combo wins. If you are getting blown out by this card that means one of two things 1) your deck isn't actually high power, or 2) someone is pubstomping, neither of which is a problem of the card. Some cards are just strong. There is nothing wrong with that, it just means when you see a elfball combat deck with this card, you don't say, "oh I'll bring out my level 6 battle cruiser deck :)" you say "oh I'll bring out my 8 actually good deck"
Remember 2005, when Voja was just a cute puppy token :( ?
Voja too powerful? Lol ok
Soul Shatter! Gets around any protection. Counter it with Wash Away for just 1 blue mana!
Only people I see scared of this card is people that don't run removal you can get around Ward with anything that doesn't Target but like most of us we don't like to run too much removal so we get stuck with a commander we can't deal with but that can be the same for any commander that's a threat if you don't deal with them.
This looks like a great card to teach players to actually interact with the others at the table. A 5 mana non-haste threat that WILL ruin you, but hella telegraphed. The design is criticizably a little too everything-in-one-can for me, but calling for bans feels like a weenie hut juniors move
I do you another one, how Tergrid and Markov are Still not banned
Don't act like the Banlist is good or well thought out though. But Voja isn't banworthy.
Why is everyone freaking out about voja? Just double/triple block him anytime he first attacks. Use your removal on him as soon as he’s on the battlefield. There are plenty of lightning rod commanders and this one isn’t broken in any sense. Just a target for removal. If your pod doesn’t know to just always save removal for voja then your pod is fairly un skilled.
Counterspell...
Voja is proof Wizards wants us playing more board wipes.
Y'know, I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that it's just a knee-jerk reaction or that players should just kill the Voja player before they get to play Voja.
For example, if most of my interaction comes from big stompy creatures, I'm just never able to remove that thing. 7 mana for a ravenous Chupacabra, for example, is just not feasible since I'm gonna be dead by that point.
This card is just not fair to play against at lower power level tables, unless you go out of your way to play him in Wolf tribal, without the mana dorks.
shapeshifter tribal!!!
Run deathtouch lol, voya is fine.
I play in a Solemnity meta, so Voja doesn't do all that much.
Leovold didnt have answers???
I dont know what circles you think this conversation is needed, but this feels like heavy clickbait
I've been seeing folks on social media complaining that Voja needs to be banned because it's negatively impacting Commander.
@@PlaneswalkerProject and you took them seriously without actually having them on to allow them to vent it out and have a conversation? Yeah sure
I'm sure it applies somewhere. Not everyone's playgroup is the same as yours. I'm assuming your playgroup could easily handle this commander however it may be built but I have some pretty casual players in my playgroup where I avoid bringing out some of my decks just so I dont run away with the game because even though I try to tame some of my decks by not playing tutors, fast mana, etc, etc some of them are just so efficient that it seems like a deck unbalanced for the pod. So speak for yourself buddy
@@BuckShotTherapy asking for balance in a variable of a game that was made for one on one, is a tall order. Which I never did ask for, I like imbalance. If I wanted balancing, I would just find something else to do
Wow! If ppl want this banned they really need to revaluate their deck building.
Commander is just such a dumb format now, every card is a must remove game winner, so the solution is just to play a boardwipe every turn?
Fun /s
Jesus. Its not VO JA. ITS VO YA
If a card forces all other decks to change, or even to change your whole deck and commander choice, then yes. Yes, the impact is too big.
Just look at competitive magic when the meta waros around a single card. Bans ensue.
In the case of commander, people (by nature of the format) want to play their darlings. That can matchup real bad.
Rule zero has never been more important. Determine what powerlevel you wamt to play it before starting the game amd ideally bring multiple decks with different powerlevels to gamenights.
Please tell me you're trolling everyone with that pronunciation of Voja?
How do you pronounce it? 🤔
@@GrizzneyGames it's "voya"
It didn't break anything more than a million busted legends before it. It's not even cEDH viable. It's a pubstomp commander for timmies/newbs, who want a deck that builds itself. It didn't break anything, but everything about it sucks.
blue player counter spells Voja.. Problem solved. Idk why casuals are crying so hard about Voja when infinite combos and stax exist.
Same energy as just draw the out
@@kalebcoceancig9943strong commanders are gonna exist. A Voja power level 9 deck can still lost to a Yuriko power lv 9, Or any power lv 9 deck. Its how you choose to build the deck that makes it strong. You could build wolf tribal with Voja and im sure it wouldnt be that amazing.